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Because sometimes, the prospect of coalition soldiers storming your safehouse with heavy armor and automatic weapons is enough to tweak your conscience that LITTLE extra bit… (UPDATED and UPDATED AGAIN)

American journalist Jill Carroll has been released.  This is a good thing.  The Jawa Report and Stop the ACLU have more.

****

update:  Apparently Ms Carroll was treated like a princess by her noble and gentlemenly kidnappers, who snatched her up three months ago simply to protest the occupation of their country by the forces who liberated 25 million Iraqis from under the boot heel of Saddam Hussein.  Such a selfless and, yes, painful, act by such a benign and caring and patriotic insurgency!

I mean, screw the millions of Iraqis who voted for democratic reform—impossible without the ouster of Saddam—these mujahadeen care about their honor, and the honor of their country!  Which, I suppose, is why they murdered Ms Carroll’s interpreter.

Which begs the question:  why did she wish to be released?  Seems like she had it made where she was.  Figs. Fine silks.  An all-around comfortable kidnapping, from all accounts.

—Unless, of course, she’s trying to cut in on some of that Cindy Sheehan “speaking Truth to Power” money.  Big bucks in that, I hear.  So you never know.

Or maybe she was secretly blinking her fear and loathing in code during the video.  After all, she was being interviewed by one of her captors, and it’s hard to tell with her face covered up like that…

Video of Ms Carroll’s [coerced] apologia for terrorists here.

I suppose we should cut her some slack and see how she feels in a month or so.  Or however long it takes to deprogram someone.  Rusty has more.

****

UPDATE:  From CBS4 in Boston, “Carroll Says She Was Forced To Criticize US”.  Guess it didn’t take long to “deprogram” her at all.  This is great news—and it goes some way toward restoring my faith in humanity.

UPDATE:  If my original post was overly critical of Ms Carroll, I apologize for that presumptuousness.  As I noted in the comments, the pro-insurgency statements made by the Christian Peace workers after their military rescue had me believing the worst; and while I tried to remain non-committal about Ms Carroll’s ultimate position—I was aware of who was doing the interview and what kind of coercion that might entail—I nevertheless am sorry for any suggestion that Ms Carroll was in league with her captors or their cause.

I was wrong.  Rusty was right.  And my faith in (portions of) humanity really have been restored as a consequence of Ms Carroll’s distancing herself from those statements made under duress.

100 Replies to “Because sometimes, the prospect of coalition soldiers storming your safehouse with heavy armor and automatic weapons is enough to tweak your conscience that LITTLE extra bit… (UPDATED and UPDATED AGAIN)”

  1. Major John says:

    Guess they figured since someone had peached on the bunch holding the CPTs, they were next… Probably a good move to ‘cut and run’.  I am glad Ms. Carroll is OK.

  2. actus says:

    Good News. Should please all of us, including my friend Charles Johnson.

  3. Boomshakalaka says:

    The changing nature of war is forcing more caution in acts that in another time would merely have been quick executions. 

    The Iraq war is scritinized so much that, guess what, no other powerful country can wage a war easily either.  Eventually, Islamists will persuade most sane people that their tactics are both brutal and hypocritical, since they have no ability to fight the US army head on.

  4. Defense Guy says:

    Good news.  Hopefully we will see an end to the taking of innocent prisoners to exert political pressure.

  5. Pablo says:

    Thank God she’s safe. This is a really despicable tactic, and I sure hope we kill the people who did it.  cheese

  6. The_Real_JeffS says:

    Good news, indeed!

  7. kelly says:

    Good News. Should please all of us, including my friend Charles Johnson

    You have friends?

  8. B Moe says:

    Well she just better be careful, ‘cause according to Randi Rhodes today, Rumsfield is the one who really wants her dead.  Now that she don’t have the insurgents to protect her she better be watching her back.  Rhodes also found it profound that Jill was treated better in captivity than our victims at Gitmo and Abu Graib.  Don’t know what other brilliant observations she had, at that point I turned the radio off and began to pound my head with a rubber mallet.

  9. alppuccino says:

    God.  That Randy Rhodes had better be dusting a spot on her mantle and make room for the Nobel Comedy Prize.

    ………better than Gitmo….that slays.

  10. Spiny Norman says:

    So why have they released her unharmed? Could she be a supporter with a message to get out?

    “Did you think the American army or the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) would save you at any time,” a muffled male voice asked Ms Carroll in accented English.

    “Sometimes I thought maybe that they might come, they might find me, they might find a way to know where I am and come get me,” she answered.

    “Why did not they save you?” asked the interviewer.

    I think the mujahedeen are very smart and even with all the technology and all the people that the American army has here, they still are better at knowing how to live and work here, more clever,” she said

    “Does this mean something to you?” the man questioning her asked.

    It makes very clear that the mujahedeen are the ones that will win in the end,” Ms Carroll said in the video.

    You know actus, maybe Charles Johnson has good reason to be suspicious of this whole incident.

  11. Spiny Norman says:

    Ooh! It gets better!

    Carroll: Well, first of all I want them to be able to understand, I want them to understand the Mujahedeen, truly. There are a lot of lies to come out of the American government, calling the Mujahedeen terrorists and other things and I think it’s important that American people hear from me the Mujahedeen are only trying to defend their country. This is only a jihad to stop an illegal and dangerous and deadly occupation so I think it’s important that people see the Mujahedeen are people that we’ve seen in our entire history resisting an occupation trying to fight a foreign force in their land, it’s their country and they have a right to fight for their own freedom so I want people to understand that it’s not people that like to kill, not people that like violence but people who love their country, people who want to see their country free from an occupation and also I want them to understand that the situation in Iraq in general, how difficult it is here, people don’t have electricity, people don’t have water, children don’t have safe streets to walk in, women and children are always in danger&People are killed left and right on the streets without any reason. People die everyday from the bombings and shootings of the army and all these things. So I think people need to understand in America how difficult life is here for the normal, average Iraqis. That everyday is a matter of survival, life and death for most Iraqis and thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of Iraqis have lost their lives here because of the occupation. I think Americans need to think about that and day to day how difficult life is here, how terrifying it is for most people to live here everyday because of the occupation.

    Voice: Do you have a message for Mr. Bush?

    Carroll: (Laughs)Yeah, he needs to stop this war. He knows this war is wrong. He knows that it was illegal from the very beginning. He knows that it was built on a mountain of lies and I think he needs to finally admit that to the American people and make the troops go home and he doesn’t care about his own people.

    I think the word we’re looking for here is “Tool”.

    Propaganda video here.

    Patty Hearst, anyone?

  12. Vercingetorix says:

    She was treated very well, besides that whole confinement deal, and forced to stay indoors, and wear the hijab, and to commerce with Islamist goat-lubricators…

    Hell, she lived just a normal 7th century savage’s chattel woman. Those darlings.

  13. JD says:

    I thought I would broaden my horizons and listen to Air America today, while travelling.  After 6+ hours of Franken, Rhodes, Seder, and Garafolo, I was forced to pull off the side of the road, kill a cat, starve a kid, and push an old lady in a wheelchair out into traffic.  My ears are still bleeding !

  14. Merovign says:

    That’s funny, even when actus says nice things it comes across as underhanded. smile

    And yes, Ms. Carroll is pretty obviously a tool. She was “sympathetic” before all this crap, and now she’s singing the praises of the scum who killed her translator and kidnapped her. Oh, and bashing American troops and policies, like she did before.

    Collusion? Perhaps. Maybe they just released her because they recognized a fellow traveler.

    But for her to go on about how wonderful these murderers are is reprehensible, to say the least.

    She’s pond-scum, whether she collaborated or not.

  15. ed says:

    Hmmm.

    Wasn’t her translator killed?

  16. Patricia says:

    Well, give her a few weeks to decompress.  Like all anti-Americans, she’ll never admit she’s wrong or it would destroy her world view and her head would burst open, but that interview was with the muj who captured her.  Hell, I would say anything at that point too.

  17. OHNOES says:

    Ever get one of those feelings that every ignorant buffoon in the world is aligned against you, and that since they control the narrative, they just might win?

    I don’t like getting feelings like this, largely because they remind me too much of the delusions of grandeur and the “one lone man who sees the truth” sort of pseudo-intelligence that lined my days as a liberal.

  18. Steve in Houston says:

    I think we need to rename “the Stockholm Syndrome”.

  19. Sean M. says:

    Maybe I’ve just become a bedwetting Islamophobic paranoid rightwinger, but I found it a little strange that in the video I saw of her after her release, she was still wearing the hijab.

    Yeah, it’s probably just me.

  20. ahem says:

    You could see that one coming a mile away….

  21. Dan Kauffman says:

    I can never get trackbacks to work with this website so here goes a little bit about someone NOT treated very well the day this woman was captured.

    Lest We Forget: Allan Enwiya

    I heard on the TV the other night Jill Carroll insisting that her captors treated her well, really well. Let us not forget that others who were with her that day she was captured were not treated so well. As Michelle Malikin states JILL CARROLL was FREED but Allan Enwiya wasn’t, was he?

  22. rwilymz says:

    Giuliana Sgrena was seen on video pleading with US and Italian officals to pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease save her from the clutches of the evil and vicious murderers who had captured her—the same evil and vicious people who, a week before, she had been praising in her Italian Communist rag, il Manifesto.

    She came pre-stockholmed.

    Could Carroll be the Manchurian Reporter?

  23. B Moe says:

    If I were truly the heartless bastard everybody thinks I am I would make a joke here about the different ways to give head to terrorists.

  24. Salt Lick says:

    A friend sent me this. Don’t know where it came from:

    The British military announced today that they had air-dropped former hostages Norman Kembler, James Loony and Harmeet Singh Sooden into the Iraqi desert, just a week after their rescue from a house west of Baghdad. The men had been held by insurgents for four months.

    Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.

    “We realize now that we made a huge mistake,” said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, “and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect.”

    Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.

    “To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night,” he said. “They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!”

    The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.

    “The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see,” he said. “The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn’t a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out.”

    The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.

    “The cartoons really did the trick,” said Captain Coates. “As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better.”

    Coates would not comment on reports that the three men were all wearing “Jesus Rules, Mohammed Drools” T-Shirts.

  25. MarkD says:

    I’m guessing she was ransomed. 

    What do you call 1,000 dead reporters?

    “Truth, justice, and the American way.”

    Because most of them are on the other side.

  26. Crimso says:

    Heard a story by ABC’s Brian Ross this morning regarding the ransom angle.  CSM denied paying a ransom (think her father did as well).  The great part about the story, though, was Ross noting that he’d had personal experience as a hostage on a hijacked plane in Honduras 25 years ago.  He felt the need to point out that while the US govt. policy was to never deal with kidnappers, it caused those kidnapped anger and dismay that their govt. wouldn’t spend “just a little money” in order to free them.  Positively brilliant there, Ross.  Can’t think of a better way to encourage kidnapping than to reward it, nor a better way to discourage it than to consistently refuse to reward it.  Where do the media get such razor sharp minds?

  27. actus says:

    Which begs the question:  why did she come back?  Seems like she had it made where she was.  Figs. Fine silks.  An all-around comfortable kidnapping, from all accounts.

    It seems like some people wanted her dead. Like Marla Ruzicka.

  28. Vladimir says:

    Did anyone else notice that the interrogator sounded like he had socks in his mouth?

  29. The_Real_JeffS says:

    Do you have a point here, actus?  Marla Ruzicka was killed by a car bomb last year.

    Oh, wait, what am I saying?  actus, having a genuine,coherent point to make?  Oy vey!

  30. Mary Rosh says:

    What’s the difference between Jill Carroll and Jeff Goldstein?

    Jill Carroll went to Iraq.

    http://www.goarmy.com

  31. Good Lt says:

    This unpublished part of the transcript, taken just as she was being wisked to safety, ties the whole affair up in one knot:

    “Goobye, fellow jihadis! Thanks for all the memories! Solidarity with Palestine!”

    And don’t worry about my translator – the media won’t play that one up. Nobody will even remember this by next month. Hang in there – the US will give up coming this November!”

  32. actus says:

    Did anyone else notice that the interrogator sounded like he had socks in his mouth?

    The post reports she made a video, and was told it was for internal consumption, at the party headquarters she was released to.

    Composed, Carroll negotiated her way through the first of many politically laden conversations she would have Thursday, trying to stick to what she wanted and didn’t want to say.

    ….

    They had her record a question-and-answer session on camera that they said was for their records. It showed up on television shortly afterward.

    Party leader Tariq al-Hashimi presented her with an embossed Koran in a plush box. The Koran was for the true followers of Islam, Hashimi said, and he mentioned the Iraqi people. Accepting it, Carroll said her suffering was nothing compared with theirs.

  33. BumperStickerist says:

    What’s the difference between Jill Carroll and Jeff Goldstein?

    Naivete, might be another difference.

    Regarding the ‘goarmy’ thing, I’m surprised.

    Wait, no I’m not.

    .

  34. actus says:

    Do you have a point here, actus?

    that it seems like people wanted her dead. For example:

    What do you call 1,000 dead reporters?

    “Truth, justice, and the American way.”

    Because most of them are on the other side.

    Over at Imus they were saying she was on the side of “the iraqi people.” Its gotten so post-modern and sarcastic that I can’t tell whether that is bad or not.

  35. Good Lt says:

    mary rosh =

    And i’m sure she got a good view of the entire courtryside from inside of her holding pen, giving her authority to wax eloquent about the entire situation in Iraq, right? Why didn’t she report on what was goin on in the Kurdish regions? Oh yeah – she doesn’t care.

    Intelligent people realize that her perspective was limited, and that the only reason her captors didn’t kill her is because she is useless to them and their cause dead. Now she’s out praising her captors and knocking the US – being a mouthpiece for their cause. Sorry if these facts are causing cognitive dissonance

    Did you ever fight a fire? If not, how can you possibly support fire fighting? Don’t you know what its really like? You’ve never done it! Chickenfirehawk!

    Spare us.

  36. Vladimir says:

    The interogator consumed the video?

    Allah is magic!

  37. Rob B says:

    I bet they get Jenene Garafalo to play her in the ABC movie of the week. After her role in “Mystery Men” she’s really proven that she has range.

  38. docob says:

    And Mary Rash chimes in with a totally original and fresh “argument”, the chickenhawk canard.

  39. actus says:

    And Mary Rash chimes in with a totally original and fresh “argument”, the chickenhawk canard.

    With a slight modifaction, as it equates a woman doing freelance journalism in a heavily muslim country with joining the worlds most powerful military.

  40. Good Lt says:

    Exactly – there is no comparison. One side is for the USA, and one is against.

    Thanks for making our point.

  41. Spiny Norman says:

    Mary Rosh,

    What’s the difference between John Walker Lindh and Jeff Goldstein?

    Lindh went to Afghanistan.

    Ummah.com

    Pathetic.  rolleyes

  42. actus says:

    Exactly – there is no comparison. One side is for the USA, and one is against.

    Like I said. It seems that some people are disappointed she’s not dead.

    Thanks for making our point.

    No. Thank YOU.

  43. BumperStickerist says:

    not disappointed, just surprised.  I’m pleased she’s alive.  It’s great news with no caveats.

    The guy in charge of CSM made a couple of good points regarding the release.  Basically, she was told to say only nice things and that she was dropped off and told to enter a building.

    She went in and, I think, gave the interview.  So, per the CSM guy, chances are that Jill wasn’t sure that *what* her situation really was when she gave that initial apologia.

    If so, then that’s a good move on Jill’s part.  I’d say *whatever I thought needed to be said* to get away.

    If, otoh, Jill comes back to the United States, has counselling, and in a couple of weeks says the same “These were good guys, really!” then I’d think otherwise.

    The problem, and one Jeff is better able to answer, is, if that is the case – that Jill’s first ‘release’ interview’ was made while she thought she *might* not be safe- why was that not reported?

    .

  44. actus says:

    The problem, and one Jeff is better able to answer, is, if that is the case – that Jill’s first ‘release’ interview’ was made while she thought she *might* not be safe- why was that not reported?

    The post reported that she was told it was not for release, and was made by Sunni politicians. Who I’m guessing are not quite on the side of americans.

  45. Carl W. Goss says:

    A little ruff on Mz Carroll ain’t ya?

    Wha’d you expert her to say?

    Cut her some slack, she’s been a captive for about three months, probably not knowing from one minute to the next whether or not she’d be executed.

    SHe’s a journalist doing her job.

  46. Good Lt says:

    Actually, she said she was fine and in great spirits in these interviews and in her statements.

    That doesn’t sit right if she was truly the way you just asserted she felt.

    I smell BS.

  47. Good Lt says:

    Like I said. It seems that some people are disappointed she’s not dead.

    Actually, YOU inferred that, and I never said it or impleid it in any of my posts. If she is found to have been sympathizing and cavorting with the enemy, I likely would have had little sympathy for the outcome if it happened to be bad – there is no honor among anti-Americans. Luckily, it didn’t turn out that way.

    Now we’re left with you defending her sympathy for her captors.

    Way to pretend you know what you are talking about! And for making my point!

    When you assume, you make an ass out of YOU, not me.

  48. alppuccino says:

    After her role in “Mystery Men” she’s really proven that she has range.

    Please don’t badmouth “Mystery Men” Rob.  It sickens me.  And I am a Pantera’s Box that you do not want to open.

    So don’t punch my clock.

    —Mr. Furious

  49. actus says:

    If she is found to have been sympathizing and cavorting with the enemy,

    She’s a journalist. That doesn’t resolve it for you? You said that freelance women journalists were “against” the USA. But now the tune is changed, and it depends on her sympathizing and cavorting, rather than group membership.

    When you assume, you make an ass out of YOU, not me.

    I do feel like an ass has been made out of me when I read your words and then you change your mind.

  50. Good Lt says:

    Are you huffing glue? Her being a journalist is not going to stop an investigation into her actions, statements, motivations and public statements. Sorry.

    Again, you inferred that I want her dead. I never said that, implied it or wrote it. That said, I still don’t have much sympathy for useful idiots like her who take it upon themselves to report terrorist platitudes and sympathy as facts while trashing their home country on the world stage. That does not equate to a wish for her death, ignoramus. You obviously don’t have any questions for her, showing your tenacity and ability to engage in critical thinking.

    She is an advocate, not a journalist. The first thing she did after being “freed” was to go to the press to praise her captors and to bash the US and the administration.

    On second thought, that actually sounds like an American journalist to me. Boy – we got a real pressure cooker here!

    Have a nice day! Don’t sit down too hard – you’ll crush your brain.

  51. actus says:

    Again, you inferred that I want her dead. I never said that, implied it or wrote it.

    Just that she’s “against” the USA.

    The first thing she did after being “freed” was to go to the press to praise her captors and to bash the US and the administration.

    It looks like she didn’t go to the press, but was delivered to Sunni politicians, and was told the video was not to be released to the press.

    On second thought, that actually sounds like an American journalist to me.

    Thank YOU.

  52. The_Real_JeffS says:

    that it seems like people wanted her dead.

    Yep.  Once again, actus has no point to make.  Even incoherently.

  53. The_Real_JeffS says:

    For example:

    What do you call 1,000 dead reporters?

    “Truth, justice, and the American way.”

    Because most of them are on the other side.

    Over at Imus they were saying she was on the side of “the iraqi people.” Its gotten so post-modern and sarcastic that I can’t tell whether that is bad or not.

    Hey, what do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

    A good start!

    BUAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  What a thigh slapper.  God, I kill myself…..and I’m not even a lawyer.

    Of course, that joke is so post-modern and sarcastic that I can’t tell whether it is bad or not.

    TW:  Does actus listen when other people speak?  The evidence is against it.

  54. actus says:

    Of course, that joke is so post-modern and sarcastic that I can’t tell whether it is bad or not.

    The joke, or Imus’ point about being for the Iraqi people?

  55. beetroot says:

    Everybody’s all worked up about Jill as fifth-columnist, trying to fit her into the larger narrative of media-as-enemy that is so important to so many here.

    But I think that if one gets past revulsion at Carrol’s apparent sympathy with the insurgents, there’s some important information there.

    That is, she helps us see: Who is the enemy, and what is his motivation?

    What interests me about her interview is her insistence that her captors are nationalists, not Islamists; that their motivation is to end the occupation, not to eliminate Western civilization from the map.

    This is a different narrative than the one that tags the entire insurgency as “Islamofascists” who are universally committed to the same goal as Bin Laden, and for whom there is no cure other than destruction.

    And it seems to me that one key to our having any success in Iraq is to split those two – – the Iraqi nationalists we can deal with, in theory at least, since we ultimately support Iraqis running their own country (they may be scumbags, but that’s another problem). The jihadists we can’t deal with, for obvious reasons.

    So what I get from Carroll’s statements thus far is a reminder that we still don’t know or understand much about the insurgency. As tempting as it is to write them all off as evil and dream of nuking the place flat, the fact is that we have to understand the factions of the insurgency if we’re going to exercise any kind of divide-and-conquer strategy.

    Because one important factor that differentiates Iraq from Vietnam is that the Iraqis don’t (yet) have the equivalent of the Viet Cong. There’s no unified, all-encompassing movement or organization that controls the insurgency. It’s decentralized and unified in its opposition to us; the less presence we have, the more the factions will turn on each other, and the more important it will be for us to know who to support and how.

  56. Good Lt says:

    If a tree falls in the forest and clonks actus on the head, does he even understand what happened to him?

    If her rhetoric is anti-American upon release, what is the next logical question? Do you even ask questions of terrorists, their sympathizers or their dupes in the press?

    You still haven’t shown where I said she should be dead, or that I’m unhappy that she’s not.

    You can’t cite anything I wrote because you are projecting what yo uwant me to think onto the comment thread without my having writtn it. Unfortunately, I do not suffer the immaturity and lack of critical thinking of a fourth grader.

    And since you won’t be able to cite anything I wrote threatening her life or expressing regret that she was not slaughtered, you lose the argument.

    Congratulations!

  57. Chairman e says:

    Something certainly is fishy about Carroll’s behavior, but it doesn’t serve us well to attack her personally when other explanations for it exist (ie Stockholm Syndrome, extortion or intimidation perhaps, or maybe she brutally killed all her captors with some wicked jiujitsu and is simply now feeling remorse) that should compel our sympathy for her. There are cetainly more absurd and egregious things going on elsewhere. Simply stated, I had assumed she was dead before this week, and now I find myself happily surprised.

  58. Good Lt says:

    PIMF: Written, not writtn.

  59. The_Real_JeffS says:

    The joke, or Imus’ point about being for the Iraqi people?

    You, actually.

  60. Good Lt says:

    beetroot-

    So the Iraq is Vietnam meme is pretty much bullsh*t, then, no?

    As we’ve been saying all along…

  61. actus says:

    If her rhetoric is anti-American upon release, what is the next logical question?

    Ask away. But also reply to a descriptong of her by saying: “One side is for the USA, and one is against.”

    You still haven’t shown where I said she should be dead, or that I’m unhappy that she’s not.

    I said it seems some people are that way. Don’t get all defensive.

  62. Spartacus says:

    “Did you ever fight a fire? If not, how can you possibly support fire fighting? Don’t you know what its really like? You’ve never done it! Chickenfirehawk!”, said the Good Lt.

    Wow! Nice strawman.  Let’s see firefighting seeks to protect lives and prevent destruction, the Army aims to take lives and cause destruction. When I went through basic traing not all that long ago, I was told that “blood, blood makes the green grass grow”.  Are you really a Lt.? Air Force or Rainbow Six?  Carry on.

  63. Vercingetorix says:

    I said it seems some people are that way. Don’t get all defensive.

    Gratitude would be a nice change, but whatever…

    The post-Christian Peacekeepers on the other hand, CAN and certainly will walk their candy-asses back onto the headchopping blocks.

    Thank Darwin and Gaia.

    But for gratitude, maybe some scorn at the merry head-liberators? She’s a journalist; those are an elective credit.

  64. Major John says:

    Spartacus – I guess you never worked with a PRT, or on a MEDCAP or VETCAP, or with CERP funds. Take lives and cause destruction – wrong.

    Violence is employed as needed.  Our first and foremost mission is to win the nation’s wars.  But to imply that is all we can do or all that we do shows a deep and abiding ignorance.

  65. Vercingetorix says:

    blood makes the green grass grow

    goes with…

    Marines make the blood flow!

    Platoon 10XX, SSgt XXXXXson!

    Kill! Kill! Kill!

    Of course, the problem with the military is the sheer volume of killing we do…

    It’s entirely too little. Not when we can drop a few rockets on some Sudanese Nazis, but don’t, to stop some of the killing. Or send in SpecOps guys to garrote, stab, shoot, and dynamite African psychopaths, racking up genocides, keeping up with the Joneses, but won’t. Or give leave to lunatics in Mosques, or on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

    The military…entirely too humanitarian.

  66. rls says:

    You guys are never going to learn!

    acthole does not interact – he drops turds on threads and sits back and rubs his hands with glee, or rubs something else with glee and panting breath.  All he needs to set him off (or get him off) is for someone to comment on one of his turd drops.

    IGNORE HIM. He will eventually disappear.  If you don’t you will forever be MASTURBATORY ENABLERS.

  67. actus says:

    Gratitude would be a nice change, but whatever…

    The video showed her being quite thankful to the people that released her. But its hard to credit it much, since it was filmed by the politicians that are somewhat sympathetic to her captors.

  68. prozacula says:

    you people constantly amaze me.

    jill carroll mentions that she was treated well (meaning not raped, and her head is still attached), and you freaks go off the deep end and call her hanoi jane and all that other shit.

    please.

    grow up.  please get a real discourse.

  69. MarkD says:

    When are we going to get around to hanging Hanoi Jane anyway?

  70. Defense Guy says:

    grow up.  please get a real discourse.

    Says the person with as their email address.  Although to be honest the freaks comment almost has me convinced that our level of discourse is lacking.

    How about a nice round of I know you are but what am I?

    On second thought, no, I don’t think I will try to engage in rational discourse with you scumsucker.

  71. Vercingetorix says:

    D-Guy, your forgot, ALL YOUR BASE IS BELONG TO ME!!!

    Prozac is teh SUXOR!!!

  72. Vercingetorix says:

    Oh, and Ben Domenech!

    Yeah! TAKE IT, BITCHES!

  73. Salt Lick says:

    jill carroll mentions that she was treated well… and all that other shit.

    “My Iraqi translator that got two bullets in the head from my benevolent captors, leaving a wife and son behind? A real piece of shit.  BUT I’M ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY!”

  74. nikkolai says:

    I think she was in the pivot position of a “jihadi flying V” full out sex orgy.

  75. Spartacus says:

    Major John,

    I don’t disagree that the Army performs “humanitarian” missions.  However, the main purpose of the US Army is to close with and kill the enemy.  If you doubt that, you need to go back and examine the force structure. Infantry, Armor, Artillery, SF.  Combat Arms, everybody else is just support.  My point to Lt. was that using firefighting as an argument is ridiculous.  That being said, thanks for your service.  I checked out your blog as well.

  76. actus says:

    I don’t disagree that the Army performs “humanitarian” missions.  However, the main purpose of the US Army is to close with and kill the enemy.

    President dubya did say they shouldn’t be doing nation building stuffs.

  77. Defense Guy says:

    Yeah, but did anyone yell ‘no takebacks!’ actus?

    I thought not.  So it doesn’t count.

  78. actus says:

    Yeah, but did anyone yell ‘no takebacks!’ actus?

    I thought not.  So it doesn’t count.

    Helen Thomas’ new strategy.

  79. B Moe says:

    My point to Lt. was that using firefighting as an argument is ridiculous.

    It is ridiculous only if those using the “chickenhawk” tactic are implying that the accused is afraid of killing people.  Since it is obvious that the implication is that they are afraid of risking life and limb, the firefighter comparison is completely appropriate.

  80. alppuccino says:

    you people constantly amaze me.

    jill carroll mentions that she was treated well (meaning not raped, and her head is still attached), and you freaks go off the deep end and call her hanoi jane and all that other shit.

    please.

    grow up.  please get a real discourse.

    No “pole-smoking” this time Prozacula?

    Cold sore?

  81. Lucky Ducky says:

    Okay – this is a parody, right?

    I mean – only a completely cynical ass or someone trying to make right-wingers look horrible could write this ridiculous rant.

    How about waiting a few days before you rip into the woman?

    Geezus.

  82. MarkD says:

    I think the word actus doesn’t understand is “hyperbole.” I have to admit I watched his exchange with Good Lt with great bemusement. 

    I was the one who posted the comment about 1000 dead journalists out of a sense of frustration.  When somebody kidnaps you, and murders your interpreter, then you later issue a statement basically praising them and supporting their cause; I for one smell a rat.  Maybe it was a condition for her release.  Maybe she’s on the other side.  I seem to recall a previous hostage turning up with a share of the ransom money in her posession.

  83. Sine.Qua.Non says:

    Ok….thanks for making me write this twice just because I referred to an apparently blacklisted site:  Shakespeare’s Sister.  She’s right, you are being an asshole.  Since you won’t allow the link, the name of her article I was trying to refer to so you (Jeffiepoo) would know who was writing about your post is:  “Jeff Goldstein is an Asshole” You’ll have to find the link yourself since everytime I put it on here, the system punts me.

    That’s one hell of a Democracy they have got going over there – completely based on religion and repressing women.  Ok, they can vote.  Gee.

    Yeah, even Bushit likes their form of Democracy so much, he has this to say about it:

    Courtesy of Blogenlust:

    A very special sovereign democracy:

    BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 28 — The American ambassador has told Shiite officials that President Bush does not want the Iraqi prime minister to remain the country’s leader in the next government, senior Shiite politicians said Tuesday.

    It is the first time the Americans have directly expressed a preference in the furious debate over the country’s top job, the politicians said, and it is inflaming tensions between the Americans and some Shiite leaders.

    […]

    Mr. Khalilzad said Mr. Bush “doesn’t want, doesn’t support, doesn’t accept” Mr. Jaafari as the next prime minister, according to Mr. Taki, a senior aide to Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, the head of the Shiite bloc. It was the first “clear and direct message” from the Americans on a specific candidate for prime minister, Mr. Taki said.

    The Shiite bloc, which won a plurality in the parliamentary election in December, nominated Mr. Jaafari last month to retain his post for four more years.

    Yeah….excellent form of Autocracy.

    So, explain to me what has everyones panties in a twist?  These people were released and apparently not tortured, abused, raped or otherwise murdered…and you have a problem with this?  Because they didn’t get on their knees and kiss the soldiers boots when they “rescued” them?  Or, is this just the party line when women dress in the custom of the country they happen to be in at the time?  I could go on and on, but this attitude of the right is really ridiculous.

    Have you considered that, as a condition of release, she had to say this – in order to save others being held hostage?  On the other hand, what she has to say may, in fact, be exactly how she was treated.

    One of the reasons I stopped checking you out is because you have stopped making any logical sense whatsoever and have become a “complete” attack dog jerk.

    BTW:  I find it really interesting Jeff that you ask everyone to put you on their blogroll but you chose not to reciprocate to anyone?  Odd, that.

    [I don’t do the blacklist. That’s Expression Engine.  I have not banned links to Shakespeare’s sister; and I have a very extensive blogroll that I took off the main page because blogrolling would go down and hurt loading time -ed]

  84. Defense Guy says:

    These people were released and apparently not tortured, abused, raped or otherwise murdered…and you have a problem with this?

    It must take special skill to be this dense.  These people who you refer to must not include the translator that was with Jill at the time of her abduction.  I guess maybe murdering Iraqi’s in cold blood doesn’t count? 

    You are a terrorist apologizer, and apparently a misogynist as well.  Congratulations on your progressive thinking.  If you would actually take the time to research the topics you are willing to allow your emotion to let you talk about, you might actually be worth a shit.  As it stands now, your comments are less than worthless, and could even be harmful if someone took them to be true.

  85. Sine.Qua.Non says:

    Defense Guy:

    Interesting.  In fact, I was only referencing those people released and their commenatary after their release.  I did not, not once, bring Carroll’s interpreter into my post.  That is a whole other topic…of which, there is no defense.  Should I have been speaking about the interpreter or anyone else assasinated and tortured, including the gay men and women kidnapped and burned to death by SADR death squads out of Iran, this discussion would have taken a completely different direction.

    Because this is not the topic I was targeting in my post, I did not discuss it here. 

    I find it interesting that you and Jeff trash the released and apparently unharmed hostages for the death of Ms. Carroll’s interpreter by calling them terrorist apologists. 

    You know…it is also interesting that….every time I come and read Jeff’s forum, all you have to add to the mix is attacks, not substance, to any and all commentary.  At least, when I say something I don’t agree with, I back it up. 

    Besides, it was very clear, I was writing to Jeffiepoo, and not you, or anyone else here.  (I can’t believe I am actually wasting my time responding to this troll message.)

    See, I like Jeff.  As pissed off as he makes me half the time, he sometimes forms a series of logical and substantive posts……until he goes off the deep end.  Which, in my humble opinion, is what he did in this case.  (Following the 30% again.)

    So, next time, I will just consider yours the words of a troll and ignore them, DG. 

    Preudo sentar au su cara?  Anyone?

    (Where is that damned armadillo?)

  86. Defense Guy says:

    Just have to put up your moron creds don’t ya?  Show me where I said anything other than it is a good thing that she was released. 

    Quite a fine hair you are willing to split, saying that when you talk about the release and how they weren’t harmed that you are allowed to exclude those who couldn’t be released due to, you know, being murdered.  How is it that you can compartmentalize so well?

  87. alppuccino says:

    Hey D.Guy,

    I think Sine.Qua.Non dismisses the translator because he wasn’t being played by a big star, so you know right at the beginning of the movie that he’s a dead man.  Now if Sean Penn had been playing the translator and had been killed, well then Ms. Carroll would also have to die a violent death in order to keep the plot consistent.

    You just don’t understand art, do you?

  88. Sine.Qua.Non says:

    Hey Al:

    I’ve never seen “Siriana” if that is what you are referring to?  No one seems to actually want to answer my questions here – questions I actually wanted answered.  And, by the way, I don’t take fiction seriously.  Do you?

  89. itsme says:

    Jeff –

    I used to read your stuff purely for entertainment value.  Thanks for proving that your “blog” is actually a worthless piece of shit.

    So much for waiting for the facts to get in before venting your vile, sick spleen.  Let your post – and the comments here – stand as a testimony to your utter lack of intelligence and humanity.

    Jill Carroll statement

  90. Other Lisa says:

    Wow. Words fail me. Jill Carroll endured nearly three months of captivity in Iraq and you have the fucking nerve to criticize her for a video she made with machine guns pointed at her head?

    Honestly, this is one of the most cowardly, morally indefensible things I’ve ever read.

    I’d like to see how you and your readers would handle themselves in a similar situation.

    On second thought, no I wouldn’t. Because I hate seeing grown men cry and wet themselves.

  91. Sine.Qua.Non says:

    Other Lisa:  Thanks for saying that. 

    Alppucino:  Is that you Jeff, dressed in drag, playing Serpico?  How could you be so wrong?

  92. corvan says:

    Other Lisa,

    I see where you stand on Jeff.  How about the kidnappers?  Were their actions indefensible?  On the Other Lisa scale who is more contmeptible, the kidnappers or Jeff?  Do you agree wiht Ms. Carroll, are the kidnappers murderers and worse?  Should she be angry with them?  Are these people (the kidnappers) the type of people the rest of us should fight?  If so how?  Should American troops sontiue to fight them?  or the UN or no one?  Sine you can feel free to answer as well.  I’m curious.

  93. corvan says:

    And while we’re at it Sine and OL would you be okay with American soldiers fiding these kidnappers and killing them?

  94. itsme says:

    Geeze, Jeff isn’t as bad as Hitler.  That makes him a model of human virtue.

    Thanks again for making this site a monument to stupidity.

  95. MarkD says:

    I’m sure Al Jazera issued a prompt retraction.  Her interpreter had no comment.  All of which is, of course, Jeff’s fault.

    The last sentence was sarcasm, trolls.

  96. corvan says:

    Itsme,

    I’m glad you admitted that.  Now answer the questions I asked sine and OL.  How do you feel about the kidnappers?  What should be done with them or too them?

  97. corvan says:

    Oh and Ms. Carroll says the statements she made on the video and in the interview with the Islamic party were not her views, but the product of duress.  How about you guys?  Are Ms. Carrol’s orginal statements your views or do you agree that they are the type of thing an honest, thinking person would only say under threat of death?  Sine, itsme, OL I’ll be happy to hear from any of you on all of the questions I’ve asked, thanks.

  98. Jeff Goldstein says:

    I think my post takes umbrage at the things Ms Carroll said, without passing judgment on whether she was forced to say them—though I admit that after those members of the Christian Peace group were released and promptly blamed the US for their having been taken captive, I wasn’t holding out much hope for Ms Carroll.

    For what it’s worth, I linked to Rusty (Jawa Report’s) defense of Ms Carroll.  I also allowed that her release was good news, and that she was being interviewed by her captives (and why I floated the question, why would she even wish to be released if things were as perfect as “she” said they were).

    Maybe some people are looking to be outraged by the post, but, well, it says what it says.

    Personally, I’m very happy she is distancing herself from all that horseshit; now if only those Christian Peace activists would do the same…

  99. corvan says:

    Actually, I owe Ms. Carroll an apology.  After the peace activist thing I had feared she might mean what she had said.  I’m over-joyed to hear she didn’t. 

    However, I’m more than a little disturbed that Sine, OL and itsme are happy to come here and condemn you in the strongest terms for feeling that Ms. Carroll’s repudiated words were in fact, inaccurate, when none of them have shown as much disgust for the kidnappers.  Nor have they said waht should be done wiht such men.  Nor have they said whether the US should actually oppose such men.  I’m afraid that says much more about them than the outragfe they have expressed about you ever could.  I’m still hoping though, guys, how about answering the questions I posited in my last couple of posts.  Let’s figure out where we all stand here.  We know you despise Jeff.  How do you feel about kidnappers, terrorists and murderers?  What do you think should be done with them?  Do you, in fact believe that Mrs. Carrol’s stement pre-release were obviously flase and the sort of thin that would only be said by a person in fear of her life?

  100. Other Lisa says:

    Corvan:

    I think the kidnappers are heinous. They murdered a man, they held a woman captive, they terrorized people who did them no harm, most probably for financial gain. I loathe religious fundamentalism of all sorts and believe that it’s responsible for a great deal of strife and suffering in the world today. I think the invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake (an understatement) that was then badly managed, and we will be paying the consequences of it for decades to come. I could go on and on about this (and I have, believe me), but that’s the Cliff Notes version. Anger? You’d better believe it. Fury, rage, despair – when I contemplate these issues, believe me, I have emotions to spare.

    But right here, right now, I’m just going to focus on my anger that commenters here felt the need to spout off about Jill Carroll before knowing anything about her circumstances. I’d like to know how many of the people who spewed insults at her would have the courage and idealism to risk their lives to do what they felt was right – in her case, to report on Iraqi peoples’ experiences during this war. And she managed to survive – unlike another idealist, Margaret Hassan (whom I mention because people say that being a woman was an advantage in this situation, but it doesn’t always help). I’d say that’s pretty admirable and shows resiliance, intelligence and strength.

    Or maybe it was just luck. We don’t really know yet.

    But for a bunch of armchair warriors to insult this woman for surviving her ordeal is just sickening.

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