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in which protein wisdom finds he has OTHER fans on the left

Like, for instance, hilzoy from Obsidian Wings (who, not content simply to misunderstand the entire tristero incident, gives herself license to take a shot at my creative output, as well.)

Ah!  The joys of blogging!

NOW, WHO WANTS PIE?

100 Replies to “in which protein wisdom finds he has OTHER fans on the left”

  1. bains says:

    Used to be ObWi was a regular read, as was Ballon Juice.

    Used to be…

  2. me! and maybe we could slip some ambien or something in there?

  3. friend says:

    hair pie?  Or is it too mysogynistic to ask in that Revenge of the Nerds kinda way?

  4. Jeff Goldstein says:

    Which puts me in mind of a joke:

    Q: Why did hilzoy cross the road?

    A: To piss on the chicken. BECAUSE ATRIOS COMMANDED IT!

    By the way, if you see a rightwing blogger taking up for me, please, tell him/her to stop.  It’s getting embarrassing, all this love!

  5. Sean M. says:

    Well, I’d stick up for you, Jeff, but apparently I’m a “progressive,” not a right wing blogger.  Who knew?

  6. oh sean, that reminded me of the time i was called a misguided leftist.

  7. Rand Careaga says:

    You folks do love the sanctity of your echo chamber, don’t you?

  8. CraigC says:

    I do, I do!!!!

  9. Sean M. says:

    You You You folks folks folks do do do love love love the the the sanctity sanctity sanctity of of of your your your echo echo echo chamber chamber chamber, don’t don’t don’t you you you?

    Yes Yes Yes, a a a thousand thousand thousand times times times yes yes yes!

  10. gus says:

    It’s nice that you have an ad for the Navy.

    It’s pathetic that you want women to protect you and your family. What a coward.

    Ban away WATB.

  11. Pablo says:

    Gus, do you have something against women in the military?

    ::lights fuse::

    LEFTIST IN THE HOLE! LEFTIST IN THE HOLE!

  12. Major John says:

    Gus – huh?

    It’s pathetic that you want women to protect you and your family.

    I reckon you aren’t much of a fan of women police officers, firefighters, paramedics … we’ll tell them that you are too brave to receive help from them.

    I guess you haven’t been much of a regular reader here either.  We have dealt with the “chickenhawk” meme many times before.  You may be a first tho’ – Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Gus, the misogynist chickenhawker

  13. Major John says:

    And I would like some pie too, please.

  14. stiv says:

    I resent her stating that the recent civil war comment indicates that Jeff has come unglued.  Those of us who read this on a regular basis know that Jeff has been unglued for quite some time.

  15. By the way, if you see a rightwing blogger taking up for me, please, tell him/her to stop.  It’s getting embarrassing, all this love!

    Jeff, I think the reason you’re not seeing people rally to your defense is because it would be like coming to the defense of the Iowa against a mosquito. Don’t worry about what those people are saying; spend a little more time with your son and remember what’s really important.

  16. Pablo says:

    Those of us who read this on a regular basis know that Jeff has been unglued for quite some time.

    Hell, that’s the only reason I come here.

  17. gus says:

    I don’t have a problem with women in the military. I have a problem with cowards not enlisting if they think their families are in danger.

    That would be all of you chickenhawks

  18. gus says:

    I see you didn’t address the chickenhawk question by actually enlisting and putting your ass instead of your mouth on the line.

    And I guess that you didn’t know that a chickenhawk is a “man” who supports a war that he won’t fight in.

  19. gus says:

    Yeah, Jeff spend more time with your son. Meanwhile other people will protect him from the scary Osama binBogeyman

  20. Pablo says:

    Oh, my.

    Chickenhawk 83: The Mysoginist.

    I’ll just wait for the next Rocky installation.

  21. Carin says:

    Oye, reading the comment thread over there is like listening to high schoolers debate. And, not the smart “AP” ones.

    More like the stoners, smoking by the side door between classes.

  22. B Moe says:

    I see you didn’t address the chickenhawk question by actually enlisting and putting your ass instead of your mouth on the line.

    Wow, guess he told you, Major John.

  23. Carin says:

    Gus,

    YAWN

    (as in, don’t make us revisit, tired, boring lessons because the “slow kids” couldn’t keep up.)

  24. BumperStickerist says:

    Jeff’s becoming unglued explains all the lefties sniffing around him now.

    He’s a sharer.

    and, gus, a ‘chickenhawk’ isn’t a man, it’s a trope.

    Cheers,

    ps.  I served, so stfu donnie.

  25. Do people like gus go out into public and show their faces? Or aren’t they given passes from the Special Needs school?

  26. Dr. Weevil says:

    So, gus, did you support the Afghan campaign? Think carefully about your answer.

    If your answer is no, what kind of asshole opposes the liberation of 25,000,000 people from a regime that murdered gays, blew up giant Buddhas, shot women in the head in soccer stadiums, whipped children for flying kites, etc etc etc? Please don’t tell us that Afghanistan is just as miserable as it was under the Taliban, opium production is up, and so forth, because that would only show your ignorance. The fact is that over 3,500,000 Afghan refugees have gone home, so there can be no doubt that the situation of Afghanistan, no matter how bad it is by our standards, is enormously better than it was.

    If your answer is yes, why didn’t you join up? Back in Fall of 2001, it looked like liberating Afghanistan might take half a million soldiers, many years, and tens of thousands of deaths. So, did you join up, or are you a chickenhawk and a hypocrite, too?

    (Please note: my URL is new.)

  27. blogbudsman says:

    Just jumped over from ObSiWi.  You might enjoy the great exercise of some civil argument in a less comfortable environment than nestled here among your flock.  Don’t just cut and run.  Then you might warrant a place on my blogroll.

  28. Jeff’s becoming unglued explains all the lefties sniffing around him now.

    I’d use a nice resin-based glue next time, instead of that cheap water-based stuff made from bovine feet.  Clamping helps, too.

    Really, I’m not sure why we can’t just get along.

  29. gas says:

    I have nothing against women in uniform. I just wanted to trot out that “chickenhawk” gasper one more time and mentioned women for no particular reason. I women find women myself doing that increasingly women often lately. Women women women.

  30. Major John says:

    Gus – I have been in the Active, Reserve or Army National Guard for 21 years now.  I served in Operation Joint Endeavor in 1997 (see, a good Clintonian exercise in peacekeeping) and Operation Enduring Freedom 2004-2005 (a bad, evil war for a Halliburton pipeline).  Throw in a couple of callups for the Mississippi River Flood (July 1993)and Louisiana hurricanes (September-October 2005) and I have a fairly well rounded military experience [not to mention things like being an o/c at Peaceshield ‘03 training the PfP member armies].

    You may retract your chickenhawk remark at your leisure.

  31. Major John says:

    Oh, Gus, if you’d care to do so privately, click over to my blog,hit the profile and e-mail to my army.mil e-mail address.

  32. Darleen says:

    Hey Gus?

    My eldest daughter is a paramedic, a 5’5” spitfire who has amazing upper body strength from helping heft 300+ pound patients and can drive a multi-ton ambulance like a black-diamond skier through moguls.

    Please email me you id so if you’re in the area and need her help, she can ignore you least you be humiliated.

  33. Carin says:

    A commenter at OW sums “us” up:

    That, and they have an unhealthy regard for authority figures combined with a unhealthy disregard for brown people and facts.

    We are known by the company we keep.  I don’t care for most of Jeff’s company.

    I fill so … sniff sniff … misunderstood.

  34. Darleen says:

    an “unhealthy regard for authority figures”?

    that from the crowd who won’t wipe their own ass without specific dispensation from Markos or Duncan?

    an “unhealthy disregard for brown people”?

    that from the “cut-n-run let ‘em kill each other with abandon and take the uppity Joooos with ‘em” crowd?

    God, ya gotta love ‘em. People that out of touch with reality provide a certain amount of entertainment value.

    I just hope they aren’t operating heavy machinery.

  35. slarrow says:

    I visited ObWi for a few months–I even engaged a few folks from time to time. But it got boring. My impression is that they (generally speaking; I do recall a few exceptions) really weren’t as bright as they thought themselves to be. But they are persistently longwinded and will stick to their guns, no matter the evidence on the other side; I’ll give them that. Too bad several of them confuse repetition for argument.

    (I especially marvel at the folks who claim that Jeff never argues here but that they are models of Socratic dialogue. I wonder if they realize how pompous and full of themselves they are?)

    They claim to be the voice of moderation, but I found it to be just another left-wing echo chamber with quieter voices. Shame, really.

  36. Vercingetorix says:

    That, and they have an unhealthy regard for authority figures combined with a unhealthy disregard for brown people and facts.

    I’m so offended, I’m going to soddomize, errr…beat off…up!, beat up! some of Jeff’s homos.

  37. No sense escalating the stupidity, Darleen.  To suggest that anyone at all from OW (of which I am part, BTW, although not all that much as a poster) takes any sort of cue, direction, what have you from Atrios or Kos is…well, it shows inattention to what we’re about and where hilzoy, for one, is coming from.  It’s the kind of thing that pisses Jeff off when directed at him.

    Me, I’d hoped for an actual debate, instead of a look-how-stupid contest, but I guess I’ll have to live with the disappointment.

  38. No sense escalating the stupidity, Darleen.

    Ok, that came out wrong.  Just saying…putting hilzoy (for instance) in the Atrios/Kos mold is a mistake.  And I’m being terse.

  39. Waitaminnit.

    The people with an “unhealthy disregard for brown people” are the ones who want to remove tyrants and spread liberty to the brown people?

    WTF?

  40. kyle says:

    Then you might warrant a place on my blogroll.

    F’reals?  From the BLOGBUDSMAN?  Oh, man.  Jeff – you can’t pass that opportunity up!  A linkie from the BLOGBUDSMAN in return for a few hours of banging your head against the wall?  Seems like a slam dunk to me.

  41. JJ says:

    Jeff is a liar. We read Jeff’s stuff and there are lies in it. Jeff has written lies in the past. Therefore, see, Jeff is a liar.

    Circles, like a bird.

    Add two cups of ad hominem and this the main serving?

    Pie, more pie, please.

  42. gus says:

    I have to admit that I’m impressed and surprised that you allow dissenting comments here. I usually get banned before my first comment is even posted.

    And that is for deviating slightly from the Partei line.

    Thanks.

    I’ll ignore the idiot who said something about Afghanistan, he is clearly off of his meds.

  43. gus says:

    I have to respond. What kind of ‘Christian’ supports a country that will execute a man for converting to Christianity?

    And my views on Afghanistan have nothing to do with the original comment. Go back to home school and learn reading comprehension.

  44. Carl W. Goss says:

    Jeff, your creative output is just fine.

    A little long.

    And usually wrong, but only when you rant on about US foreign policy.

    That’s pretty much incomprehensible.

    I dislike your POV on domestic policy, but from a creative POV you’re doing oK.

    All told this ain’t a bad site.

  45. Joe says:

    Then you might warrant a place on my blogroll.

    All told this ain’t a bad site.

    I don’t know how you can be annoyed when you get these wonderful compliments from such accomplished, high-traffic bloggers, Jeff. It’s almost as if your blog was kinda OK, almost. Well, not really OK, but nearly good enough to be mediocre.

    Pass the peanut butter, wouldja?

  46. Pablo says:

    What kind of ‘Christian’ supports a country that will execute a man for converting to Christianity?

    Prolly them crazy “Love the sinner, hate the sin” kinda Christians, gus.

    Allahdamned commies, the lot of ‘em.

  47. rls says:

    All told this ain’t a bad site.

    Hey! Kudo even from Carl.  I guess this is a “testimonial” thread, so I’ll get in on it.

    All told you aren’t the ugliest man I’ve ever seen.

    You right real gut – except for the no punc…punk..the dots where the words end.

    I really agree with you most of the time, except for your POV on foreign policy, domestic policy, political philosophy, your taste in music, film and reading material and your sense of humor.  Other than that you’re the best.

  48. RW says:



    I’ll ignore the idiot who said something about Afghanistan, he is clearly off of his meds.

    That would be a “NO, I did not sign up for Afghanistan”.

    I’m guessing that there’s also a “no, I don’t pay the tax rates that I propose others to pay (those who have achieved more than me) but I’ll still cut and paste from Duncan Black and complain about folks supporting something that they don’t take part in.  And, just like Duncan, I’ll do it from that safety of my keyboard and monitor, so I’ll add no small dose of smartass to the mix”.

    Little Man Syndrome can be seen a mile away.

    Go ahead, answer the question: did you sign up for a tour in Afghanistan?  Did your master, Duncan?

  49. Sticky B says:

    What kind of ‘Christian’ supports a country that will execute a man for converting to Christianity?

    Don’t seek improvement unless you can achieve perfection immedietly. As in RIGHT FUCKIN’ NOW!!

    Geopolitically speaking of course.

  50. SeanH says:

    What kind of ‘Christian’ supports a country that will execute a man for converting to Christianity?

    Gus, if you’ll bother to look I think you’ll find many Christians very upset about Abdul Rahman’s story.  This, this, this, and this took me about a minute to find for example.

    I know you think that story’s a nifty “gotcha” to bait conservatives with, but it really isn’t.  You might have a point if conservatives were mute about the story, but they’re outraged so it kind of falls flat.  Also damaging to your point it the fact that even with this sort of thing, an Afghanistan with vicious religious oppression is far preferable to what was there before.  Namely, an Afghanistan with vicious religious oppression, vicious gender oppression, vicious cultural oppression, and open support for terrorists attacking this country.

    It’s about as effective as your chickenhawk baiting earlier.  You know where you were trying to stick a chickenhawk label on a 21-year, US Army veteran who served in Afghanistan when he could have been safe and cozy practicing law.  Major John aside, you should probably know that you’ll want to avoid the chickenhawk stuff around here in the future.  Probably more than a fifth of Jeff’s readers are veterans.

  51. RW says:

    Here was one of the pertinent comments from gus:

    I see you didn’t address the chickenhawk question by actually enlisting and putting your ass instead of your mouth on the line.

    And I guess that you didn’t know that a chickenhawk is a “man” who supports a war that he won’t fight in.

    A. Did you support the war in Afghanistan?

    B. If “A” is “yes”, did you sign up for a tour of duty?  If “A” is “no”, why not? 

    C. Did you support the war in Yugoslavia (initiated by then president Clinton)?

    D. If “C” is “yes”, did you sign up for a tour of duty?  If “C” is “no”, why not?

    If you need extra time to query Duncan for your answers, we’ll understand.

  52. Vercingetorix says:

    BTW, gus, if you are not a policeman, fireman, garbageman, astronaut, public skool teach-person, diplomat, missionary, international businessman, ahem, biz-people, professional athlete, or rodeo-Klown, we need to ascertain your opinion on those matters.

    TW: glove, because if the glove don’t fit, you must acquit…all of your civic responsibilities

  53. Major John says:

    Verc – that was an excellent fit into the TW.  Nicely done.

  54. Gus, hon, I did about 20 years for DoD, and Major John isn’t called that by reverse formation from a relatively minor circus kid who was PM for a while.

    Now, be a good boy, and fuck off before we taunt you.

  55. Dr. Weevil says:

    ’gus’ seems to think I’m some kind of hypocritical Christian. Where did I ever claim to be any kind of Christian? Other than weddings and funerals, I’ve been to one (1) Christian service in the last 30 years, and that was only because a friend’s son was singing in the choir, and it would have been impolite not to go. No one else on this thread had mentioned Christianity. Not to rely too heavily on stereotypes, but I’m guessing our host wasn’t even raised Christian, what with being named Goldstein and all.

    Nor is there any reason for me to “go back to home school”. I have never been home-schooled, or home-schooled anyone else. Again, ‘gus’ just makes stuff up. Even if the accusation were true, it would be stupid. As it happens, I teach at a small 7-12 school that gets a lot of home-schoolers. No fewer than 5 of the 11 students in our 7th and 8th grades were home-schooled in K-6. For whatever reason, these include #1, #2, #3, and #4 on the middle-school honors list. So anyone who trashes home-schoolers is (a) ignorant, and (b) not talking about me, because I have nothing to do with home-schooling except in being fortunate enough to teach some kids who have been home-schooled previously.

    Finally, Afghanistan has everything to do with the ‘chickenhawk’ argument, which ‘gus’ brought up, since my argument shows just how dishonest that argument is. Of course, ‘gus’ is forced to pretend that my argument is irrelevant because it’s the only way to avoid admitting that he just lost the argument. And he still hasn’t answered the question: did he sign up after 9/11, when everyone knew we were going to Afghanistan, many thought it would be a bloody fiasco, and Iraq was obviously not going to be invaded for another year or two?

    All in all, it looks like I’m not the one with the reading comprehension problem, and not the ‘idiot’ either.

    That’s not the worst. When ‘gus’ refers to the “Partei line”, he’s comparing Jeff’s non-troll posters to Nazis. (’Partei’ is German for political party.) It is therefore no surprise to read his admission (boast?) that sites often ban him after his first comment, and it is no reflection on sites that do so, since he’s not just a troll but a cretinous lying swine. Is that rude? Not half so rude as implying that your opponents are Nazis.

    Jeff: Please don’t ban ‘gus’ just yet—I want to see him struggle to escape from his self-inflicted intellectual (I use the term loosely) quagmire.

  56. Now, be a good boy, and fuck off before we taunt you.

    Okay, before we taunt you more.

  57. gus says:

    Actually, truth be told, I usually get banned because I suffer fromt he rare affliction of KTS (Keyboard Turettes Syndrome)

    *MY BAG HURTS!*

    It’s really embarrassing and I’ve sufferred silently with it for years.

    *COCK SOUP!*

    I’ve tried experimental drugs, but nothing seems to help.

    *CHICKEN SHIT CHICKEN HAWK CHICKEN NOODLE!*

    Can you help?

    TW you know

  58. B Moe says:

    I would guess you usually get banned because you are an ignorant loser with absolutely nothing to contribute to an interesting conversation, but that is just me.

  59. Beck says:

    According to the logic of the Chicken Hawk argument, you cannot logically support anything which you are unwilling to personally involve yourself in.

    Which is why I do not support the WNBA.

    It’s a pitty all the white people out there don’t understand that they cannot logically support civil rights for minorities.

    And God knows you can’t support welfare if you’re not poor.

    My support for legalizing weed, however, is on solid, solid ground.

  60. noah says:

    Gus is probably safe for the duration of this thread…I think Jeff took the day off.

    Personally, I think gus should be banned for being offensive and boring at the same time.

    And I won’t miss Tristero and his aloof, all-knowing, circular, non-falsifiable bullshit.

  61. an ignorant loser with absolutely nothing to contribute to an interesting conversation, but that is just me

    Um, I’d be careful with that “that is just me” device; you could lose a finger.

  62. rls says:

    According to the logic of the Chicken Hawk argument, you cannot logically support anything which you are unwilling to personally involve yourself in.

    I guess that scenario puts the lie to all of the men on the Pro-Choice side of the aisle.

  63. alppuccino says:

    Using your logic, Beck, I guess I’m going to have to withdraw my support for exotic dancing.  Sure, I’ve got the man-boobs for bouncing to the jungle beat of “Pour Some Sugar on Me”, but I also possess some extra equipment down in Bush Gardens that might prove distasteful to the regular patrons.

    Strange times we live in.

  64. alppuccino says:

    To be clear, I support the dancers, I just don’t support their mission.

  65. RW says:

    I guess that scenario puts the lie to all of the men on the Pro-Choice side of the aisle.

    Rosie O’Donnell and Ellen Degeneres had no comment.

  66. mojo says:

    Re: Afghan Christian/Apostate

    Turned in by his family. Feel the LOVE!

    Freakin’ barbarians. Most of ‘em don’t even speak english, I hear. I say we force the US constitution on ‘em. For their own good.

  67. Inspector Callahan says:

    I have to admit that I’m impressed and surprised that you allow dissenting comments here. I usually get banned before my first comment is even posted.

    Notice a pattern?  Every try just discussing an issue politely, without starting off sounding like an asshole?

    It’s a simple solution, really.

    TV (Harry)

    tw:  Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

  68. RW says:

    According to the logic of the Chicken Hawk argument, you cannot logically support anything which you are unwilling to personally involve yourself in.

    And yet I still can’t get any of the folks parroting that term to even address why they deposited their Bush tax-cut checks and refuse to pay the Clinton rates (actually, that would be the Carter rates since they were against the Reagan cuts, as well). 

    Bring it up and they run.  Sorta like gus did and atrios generally does.  Funny thing, that.

    Must be the man/woman thing.

  69. kenB says:

    While the Chickenhawk meme is over-extended, there’s a nugget of truth in it—if people advocate a policy that carries a cost, and they’re not going to be among the people paying the cost, their argument perhaps carries a little less moral authority than someone who will be paying.  Not that they’re hypocritical, or that their arguments are therefore worthless, just that they lose a bit of credibility.

    You could make a similar sort of charge against someone earning $60K/yr who says that we absolutely be providing welfare, health care, etc. to the poor, and that we should double the the tax rate of people making $100K/yr or more to do so.  Perhaps we should, perhaps we shouldn’t, but it’s hard to take that argument seriously from someone who wouldn’t be the one adding any digits to his IRS checks.

  70. mojo says:

    if people advocate a policy that carries a cost, and they’re not going to be among the people paying the cost, their argument perhaps carries a little less moral authority than someone who will be paying.

    Does that mean you mooks are gonna stop taxing the crap outta my smokes?

    FOR THE CHILDREN!

    SB: become

    the ball

  71. Defense Guy says:

    kenB

    That might be true if those that were using the phrase like some sort of shield deferred to those who have or are serving.  Which in my experience is not true.

    It also fails to take into account the fact that effort must be made not only by those in uniform.

  72. Carin says:

    You could make a similar sort of charge against someone earning $60K/yr who says that we absolutely be providing welfare, health care, etc. to the poor, and that we should double the the tax rate of people making $100K/yr or more to do so. 

    The way I see it, those who don’t pay taxes (or haven’t paid for a significant period of time – say, over 5 years), shouldn’t have say as to how welfare is or isn’t handled.  Once the taxpayers are outnumbered (by those who don’t pay), the game is over.

    Personally, in regards to chickenhawks, I find having to prove your “military bone fides” tiresome.  Can I have a say if my husband is retired military?  My bil did a year in Iraq, can I have an opinion NOW?

  73. kyle says:

    It also fails to take into account the fact that not all those who support an ideal are capable of physically or financially joining in the actual effort.

  74. Major John says:

    kenB – please, no more “chickenhawk”… You cannot apply that standard to anyone too old to serve, disabled, too young – are they not allowed to have an opinion, or do they get special dispensation?

    Argh!

  75. Mark McGilvray says:

    OK, I just spewed coffee all over my monitor reading hilzoy’s post. Jeff, you sure know how to get the moonbats riled up. I’m still laughing so hard I can barely type.

  76. kenB says:

    Defense Guy, I wasn’t trying to defend the term itself, or the people who use it (actually, the people who are most fond of the term would probably recoil at the conclusion it inevitably leads to, i.e. that the military should have the only voice in deciding when America goes to war).  I just wanted to point out that the underlying concept isn’t completely senseless.

    (my word was “does”, as in “Does that deer like does?”)

  77. rls says:

    My bil did a year in Iraq, can I have an opinion NOW?

    We’ll see if we can get you special dispensation.  You’ll have to provide affadivits (notarized of course)and it would be helpful if you could supply copies of travel orders, birth certificates, marriage licenses, etc. (all certified “true” copies).

    I won’t make any promises, but I think we can get approval for a minimum of one-quarter opinion and, possibly one-half opinion.  Please send all correspondence to the following:

    CHICKENHAWK

    Special Dispensation Clearance Center

    Attn:  gus

    One Dhimmitude Plaza

    NYC 12345-6789

    Please allow three years (or until the next Democrat is in the White House) for response.

    PS.

    Those that provide a check payable to Democrat National Committee (DNC) usually receive a response as soon as six months.  A self-addressed envelope is provided for your convenience (postage NOT paid)

    Thank you,

    Special Chair for CHICKENHAWKS,

    Wingnut Division

  78. Darleen says:

    kenB

    There is nothing, not a nugget nor a chewy nougat, to the “chickenhawk” argument because it is not an argument at all. It is a bad faith ad hominem used as an attempt to shut up people in support of policies one disagrees with. The moral bankruptcy of the “argument” is demonstrated that even veterans or current members of the military are not immune to the meme. Even after presenting their bonafides, they are usually dismissed with some variation of “yeah, but you ain’t there NOW are ya bud? Haven’t sent yer kid, have ya bud?”

    It’s a variation of the reaction a person who defends Israel gets in an argument with the “from river to sea, Palestine will be free!” crowd ..

    “Bet you’re a Jew, right bud?”

  79. RW says:

    (actually, the people who are most fond of the term would probably recoil at the conclusion it inevitably leads to, i.e. that the military should have the only voice in deciding when America goes to war).

    Or that “only landowners have the right to vote” is the logical conclusion of the government maintaining oversight of commerce.

  80. Beck says:

    kenB, RW: Ever read Starship Troopers?  (Please, don’t mention the movie.  Don’t even think of mentioning the movie.  I’m talking about the excellent book by Robert Heinlein).  The society of the future in that book was one in which only military veterans could vote.  The idea was that they had demonstrated the willingness to serve society at large which should be a prerequisite of deciding who’s going to run society.

    As a necessary corrolary, however, people actively in the military could NOT vote, and the military couldn’t refuse anyone who wanted to serve a two year enlistment, regardless of their qualifications or lack thereof.

  81. kenB says:

    Beck,

    No, I haven’t read the book (but as for this supposed movie, I have no idea what you’re talking about).

    It’s an interesting concept, and for nations in precarious situations I could see it making sense.  If the concept were expanded to include non-military sorts of national service, I might even support it for us.

  82. Some Guy in Chicago says:

    I can only assume the commentors on this blog are anti-Neil Patrick Harris.

    I’m saddened, saddened enough to go cry in the open thread again.  But luckily, my faith in the Doog shall guide me at this dark hour.

  83. Ever read Starship Troopers?  (Please, don’t mention the movie.  Don’t even think of mentioning the movie.  I’m talking about the excellent book by Robert Heinlein).

    Hey, it’s got Dina Meyer naked and Denise Richards’ hooters, what’s not to like?

  84. Pope Ratzo says:

    Dear Mr.Goldstein,

    In reference to your earlier invitation, please tell me where I can send my $200, since I did, in fact, stick a cucumber up your sister’s ass.

    I await your reply.

  85. Jeff's sister says:

    Dear “Pope” —

    Cucumber?  Hardly.  Baby gherkin is more like it.

  86. Ratzo,

    You can just use the PayPal link on the left.  You might want to note in the comment field, so he knows what account to put the money in.

    BRD

  87. MarkD says:

    What’s with this hicken chalk business anyway?  How about nobody who doesn’t pay income taxes can vote?

    It’d be pretty funny if only vets could vote (full disclosure USMC 71-77) – we’d really hear the screams then.  Barbra Streisand, second class citizen, sit down and shut up.  I’d watch c-span to see the debate for that one.  Can you imagine the shade of Ted Kennedy’s face?

  88. RW says:

    Wow, got awfully quiet from the gus section.

    Those yes/no questions can be a real bitch, sometimes, especially when Duncan doesn’t have an answer to cut n’ paste on the ready.  Maybe you can ask him, gus, if he served in Afghanistan or Bosnia or Yugoslavia or if he just supported the measures from his desk.

    Chances are, you’ll get an answer akin to asking him if he paid the Clinton tax rates last year: “open thread! link to digbyjanesadlynobrockanotheropenthread”

  89. Point of order: in Starship Troopers, it wasn’t only those who had performed military service who could vote (and hold office), it was those who had performed government service. And IIRC, you could put down your preference, but they’d stick you where they needed you (Johnny’s was to be a Cool Space Pilot, but he ended up in the infantry). A term was 2 years and then you were good to go for the rest of your life, unless the govmint decided they still needed you (e.g., in wartime), in which case they told you how long you’d be in.

    That movie review was hiLARious, BRD. My kids kept asking, “Mom, what’s so funny?” but I couldn’t explain…

    P.S. The reason I haven’t blogged specifically in Jeff’s defense is that the entries that made me laugh the hardest were “The Prude’s Haiku” and “The Lapsed Prude’s Haiku,” and I have a family-friendly blog (except for one rude commenter whom I chastised). Besides, what’s the point? I spend probably two to three hours a day glued to this blog, neglecting my other responsibilities shamelessly, because it’s one-stop shopping for analysis, humor, news, and even longer sentences than I use, but my defense wouldn’t silence the ducks.

    TW: Plus, I’m such a lazy person.

  90. TB says:

    The whole chickenhawk thing doesn’t even work as a metaphor. A chickenhawk is either a type of hawk the kills livestock or a scrappy little cartoon character that tries to take on the much larger Foghorn Leghorn.

    It’s like insisting that hamburgers have ham in them.

    Though they could, I suppose. Sounds good actually.

  91. eLarson says:

    Well I, for one, welcome our all-veteran governmental overlords.

  92. Actually, TB – it’s like naming a left-leaning radio network Air America.

  93. TB — grilled canadian bacon.  Just sayin’

  94. We’ll see if we can get you special dispensation.  You’ll have to provide affadivits (notarized of course)and it would be helpful if you could supply copies of travel orders, birth certificates, marriage licenses, etc. (all certified “true” copies).

    oh, uh, could i cut through some of that with a copy of my DEERS card?

    TW: the fact is, that had me rolling rls.

  95. wishbone says:

    Lefties, bringing “tiresome” to a deeper ditch near you since Jimmy Carter consulted Amy about nuclear proliferation.  Not that he actually DID anything about it, he just consulted.

    To sum up, gus, yep we’re all cowards.  Especially those of us who actually, you know, wore or are wearing the uniform.  Not that you actually associate with “our kind” without vigorous consultations with the lefty meme machine.  Because we spray white phosphorous on innocent militants in violation of every international law that you’ve never read or torture people by playing David Haselhoff music at more-than-polite-iPod volume.  The last point seems to REALLY excite the members of your crowd, but you show NO outrage over the anal rape of thousands of NSA-spied-upon-’Murcans in OUR OWN PRISONS daily.  What gives?  If you really believed in human rights, you’d sign up to be sausage-stuffed today.

    Before I wrote this post, I had to consult with the Board of Directors of Halliburton and the international JOOOO conspiracy, who happen to be one and the same, but thankfully do not include Amy Carter in their ranks.

    *This post brought to you by the lefty, “Let’s consult with the UN and our allies (France and Germany, but not Japan and Australia)about how to conduct foreign policy in the interest of the international community.  Whatever the hell that is.”

  96. wishbone says:

    Yes, the previous is the first appearance of the dreaded “Hershey Highway Hawk” argument.

    Thank you in advance, I’m rather proud of the alliteration.

  97. Major John says:

    Don’t worry wishbone – the credit is all yours! heh heh.

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