…to officially question their patriotism.
—Unless, of course, by some wild contortion of the concept the peddling of demonstrably false information—oppo research, in fact –in the service of weakening your country during a time of war is now considered patriotic. Which I rather doubt.
Up is down. Black is white. Brooks is Dunn.
I don’t question their patriotism.
I don’t think they’ve ever had any patriotism to question.
What’s happened to the loyal opposition?
I think they’ve applied Clintonian semiotics to the word “loyal.”
I’d say it probably checked out sometime around 1967, and hasn’t been heard from since.
Lieberman seems to have started his Thanksgiving vacation already.
It’s patriotic to smear your nation, to cause it pain. Patriotism means love of country, we show our love by hurting, by lying, by smearing and ultimately by killing.
I will not visit John Cole’s sewer
I will not go there in an ewer.
And as for mister daily Kos
He always makes my cookies toss.
SB: over
and out
And unlike Iraq, this threat is imminent. Hell, it’s immediate. When people are convinced to believe falsehoods (WP is a chemical weapon, Bush lied about pre-war intelligence, we’re losing in Iraq, ad nauseum) we then make policy based on these distortions and untruths. Policy that will have lasting effects.
So I applaud your efforts, Jeff, to continue to fight for the truth. If that isn’t worth fighting for then we’ve got nothing.
“It is the fist responsibility of every citizen to question authority.”
–Benjamin Franklin
“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.”
–James Madison
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
–Theodore Roosevelt
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” -Clarence Darrow
They want their team to lose so they can draft their own quarterback to lead the team. Because that’s what really counts.
It’s taken you this long to question the “patriotism” of our enemies?
No longer we are losing.
Too little, too late.
The blood of millions is on our hands for coddling communists and Islamists, whose sole goal is to put us in chains.
The hawks have become the steotypical “Uncle Toms” – willingly taking abuse and then whining about it.
Too little, too late.
US Constitution
Article. III., Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
US Constitution
Criticize what we do. Don’t make finding something to criticize your goal. And especially don’t go making things up so that you can have something to criticize.
What I find amazing is that the leftists will whine about lying and then lie so brazenly. Are they so stupid they don’t realize they’re lying?
Christ, these people strut around bragging about how smart they are, claiming they’re the “reality based community”, but they buy into this shit. They have to either be ignorant of, or ignore, so much chemistry and physics to believe the claims about WP that they make Young Earth Creationists look like Carl Sagan.
And then to try to say they’re fighting tyranny, while they’re playing the tyrant’s favorite game…
The irony makes my head a-splode.
It is the fist responsibility of every citizen to question authority.”
–Benjamin Franklin
Franklin knew about fisting way back then?
Am I the last to know everything around here?
“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.â€Â
True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.†-Clarence Darrow
How does this apply when the “injustice” is pure fabrication?
Nice try asshole…..
But thanks a lot, Denny.
All great quotes, but if you are implying that what the left is doing today even remotely resembles what these men are describing, you’re beyond reason.
The left is blatantly lying and they don’t care if by doing so it kills more US troops or harms this country.
The word for this is…treason.
I question Kos’s understanding of the term ‘patriotism’.
I went over to Cole’s site. Thankfully, there were relatively few (40+) comments, so the filth was only ankle deep and I could dare to wade through.
But, whew! The stink. The raw, sewage odor of tiny minds engaged in cognitive dissonance of the first order.
One glaring example: a poster insisting that wild, unproven allegations of indiscriminate, criminal use of the “chemical weapon” white phosporous don’t hurt the troops at all. Nope. It’s about getting at Bush, who as all good progressives know, is the WORST CinC ever.
No thought is given, evidently, to the concept that the POTUS does not choose the weapons to be used in theater. The commanders on the ground do.
That said, I still cannot recommend visiting Cole’s site. I still will require a hour long, scalding shower to get the filth off.
This particular untruth is part and parcel of the left’s, and sadly most of the Democratic party’s only argument. The argument they have made since the start of operations in Iraq…Saddam bad, Americans worse.
This argument isn’t going to change, whether it works or not, because it is an arguemnt the left, and sadly, most of the democratic party truly believes. I thought, at the start of all this, that most of this sort of nonsense was the result of Bush hatred. And though Bush hatred is part of the mix it’s not the defining factor. The biggest problem here, is that most of these folks, a number of them United States citizens, simply liked Saddam Hussein better than they do their own country, and distrusted his motives less than they do their country’s.
Not on the surface of course. If you ask them they will all shrug and say, “I told you Saddma Hussein was a bad guy.” But on a gut level, the feeling, I fear, is just the opposite.
And no, I’m not a mind reader. But I can read, and I have read Kos’s reaction to this nonsense. Kos’s reaction to the death of American contractors in Iraq and reports of Chris Matthew’s speech in Toronto. Not to mention Eason Jordan’s comments in Europe and Jack Murtha’s previous statemnts on the war In Iraq, not to mention action in Somalia. (Oddly enough, all of which the MSM media seems loathe to report.). Whether our friends on the left want to admit it or not, the evidence is there, and the louder they proclaimn their patriotism, and pronounce people like me troglodytes the more obvious they become.
Sadly, this belief in American Exceptionalism, the Exceptionalism in question being the only the capacity for evil, isn’t something that can be fixed by electing another administration. It can only be muted a bit. Becuase it’s not something that can be “fixed” at all. Not until the people that propigate this nonsense begin to feel some affinity for their country, really feel it…not just profess it. Will they? Perhaps, if things get much worse here in the United States. For example, another wildy successful mass casualty terrorist attack that truly convinced them they could be next would probably change their minds, failing that, nothing. (And perhaps not even that.) I hope desperately that attack never happens and they all contnue to wistfully admire Saddma and company even as Bathism, facism and extremism are defeated. I truly do. Because I fear the occurence that will change their minds would result in the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of thousands.
And, lest you despair, there is reason to be optimistic. The fall of the Soviet Union was accomplished under circumstances very similar to these, though without bullets actually flying. With a great deal of luck, and some perseverence perhaps this threat will go the same way, and thirty years from now the left will be spouting just this sort of crap and speaking as reverently of the fallen Saddam and the passed call of Jihad as they do Fidel Castro now and the call of communism.
Saddam = Mumia!!!
BTW, is Brooks the one with the cowboy hat? I’ve never been able to tell those two apart.
Off-topic: Wow, Jeff, looks like you fixed whatever issue was causing the refresh problem in Firefox. Unless I missed it, you didn’t publicize any fix having been made, which means you quietly and tidily took care of biz-ness. Says a lot.
Thanks…
Punk Rock And Patriotism:
A band called the Vandals did a song entitled ”Slap of Love”, which seems to characterize the feeling of love that some have for their country.
“I believe I’ll have some oatmeal this morning.”
-Hermann Goering, June 11 1939, 8:00 am
“I believe I’ll have some oatmeal this morning.”
-Jeff Goldstein, Nov. 11, 2005, 9:33 am
GOERING-GOLDSTEIN
I don’t see the connection……….
From the Kos quote: “…if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and burns off the skin of babies like a duck while leaving their clothes intact, well then…”
I see Kos’s Dan Rather-like death grip on the absurd idea that WP burns flesh and not clothes continues.
TODD,
You’ll have to think back to Orwell’s polemic about totalitarian states and the existence of the mythical Emmanuel Goldstein, as being the functional mirror image of the ultimate totalitarian, Big Brother.
And they both start with the letters “GO”
Cole is the biggest masochist on the internet.
“…if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck,
… it could be a loon.
.
dorkafork: I found that part of Kos’ quote sadly humorous also. WP burns, as in fire, so if it “burns off the skin of babies … while leaving their clothes intact,” then those babies must have been wearing some very unusual jumpers. Made out of asbestos mesh or something.
Like I said, BLT, to believe the lies about WP, you have to have a contemptuous attitude towards chemistry and physics that makes a YEC look good.
Exactly. He lets diarrheic dogs run wild in his house and then he’s outraged when one of them shits on his carpet.
I hate to say this, but the left’s continual lying,giving aid to the enemy and doing anything regardless of how dishonest make me want to dust of Wilson’s sedition act of 1918.
Ofcourse, I don’t think it would fly in 2005, which when I think of the Think Progress, MoveOn, Kos and his moronic hord, is too bad.
John’s comment section does get a little trying. Facts get very little traction there sometimes. There are days when I am sure there are more lefties trolling there than at dKos.
The points have been made again and again:
-They did their best to clear the city of civilians. Fighting age males were not locked in the city. (They were arrested coming or going.) The Red Crescent (of all sources) estimated there were about 175 families that stayed. Call them all extended families of 10 so 1,750 out of 300,000 (0.58%) may have stayed in the city. These folks were in hiding.
-WP is a perfectly legal weapon used by most militaries in the world.
-Usage of WP in this context most likely saved civilian lives. (By flushing bad guys to be killed by directed fire rather than using heavier ordinance that would have destroyed a lot more.)
-There have been posts by very knowledgeable ex-military explaining how and why it is used.
-There have been posts by chemists explaining how ludicrous some of the claims are (i.e. burning skin but not cloths) .
And on and on and on. But to no availïÂÅ
What gets me is that Kos spent 3 years in the artillery corps. So he can’t even claim lack of knowledge. He has had first hand training and knowledge of the stuff. To now be twisting it this way….
They are at a point where any damage to the troops or the country is just fine as long as they can regain power.
Yes, I question their patriotism.
Bravo Romeo Delta
Thank you, I think I slept through that one…..
BRAVO ZULU OUT…………..
I love Socialist Leftists invoking what amount to libertarian ideals. Not that this deserves a reply, but…
Of course, Franklin also said keeping the Republic a republic was the first order of business, a concept among rational minds called limited, decentralized power, an absolute need based in history.
The obvious irony is that domestic American socialists would claim Franklin while doing anything whatsoever to centralize power in a Marxist god-state.
When you see great, monolithic power at home arising from an unconstitutional Congress—state schools, federalized medicine, federalized family law, economic socialism, etc.—will you resist those movements? Madison also said, “a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.” How are you on gun control?
And when the US government spends approximately 40% of our GDP on taxes, the lion’s share of which are domestic programs, how are you on that? “As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights.” Madison also said that.
To announce that there must be wholesale slander of the Commander in Chief only for political gain, and that we are to abandon just causes that involve the lives of tens of thousands, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public and dangerous to the globe.
–6Gun
“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
–Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002.
Claiming the ideals of minimal, representative government when your party has done more to erode domestic rights and freedoms than any other is the highth of dishonesty. I just wish it weren’t so predictable.
Hmm. I doubt George Bush, Dick Cheney, or Don Rumsfeld micro-managed the Battle of Falluja down to the choice of artillery rounds. So, at its base, Kos’ is labeling American soldiers as criminals. Are the Kos kids sliding down the slope towards standing in airline terminals and screaming “baby killer!” at returning troops? I guess that wouldn’t be unpatriotic—as long as you added “Fuck Bush!”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Hey Denny,
No one is saying that it’s wrong to criticize the President. We are saying that this particular critisism is a lie, and it hurts our war effort to lie about our reasons for war.
There is also no obligation to criticize the president. If the only way you can find to criticize him is to lie about the reasons for going to war, then shut the hell up!
Sorry Jeff, I have to disagree although it’s admittedly a difficult case for me to argue (difficult in all senses of that word).
Fundamentally, I think, DKos and his acolytes believe – and sincerely so in their minds – that the Bush Administration is a greater threat to our lives and freedom then terrorism or a defeat in Iraq.
It’s difficult for us to imagine such a worldview. But it we look back at some of the left’s thinkings during the Cold War, we can see some striking parallels. History is echoing itself, if you will.
They do not wish for the terrorists to succeed or for us to lose in Iraq. So, in that sense they’re not un-patriotic. However they do want Bush and the neocons or Christers or Halliburton (or whatever nefarious chimera they’ve created) to lose or, perhaps more accurately, not succeed.
A success by Bush in Iraq or in the larger war against religious extremists obviously helps, politically, the Republicans here and weakens DKos and the left in their attempt to regain power. So, Bush must fail.
However, they will not – or cannot – see through the logical extension of what they want to happen. Viz.: a Bush loss in Iraq or an Administration setback in the war against Islamic terrorism also means severe harm to American security and interests.
Because again, they view the threat from terrorism as a more distant and smaller one than they the threat coming from Bush.
It seems to me that a charge of being un-patriot must carry with it a wilfulness on the part of the party at the end of the accusation. A deliberate or wilful desire to injure the nation or its security. In that sense then, DKos and the left are innocent because, as noted above, they don’t see through the extension of what they wish to happen.
They want Bush to fail and see that failure as not hurting the country but as benefitting it.
Very odd thinking, I must admit.
SMG
Raise your hand, everybody who remembers the 90’s.
Now keep your hands up if you remember liberals in the 90’s making fun of the idea of patriotism. Liberals arguing that only a buffoon would be patriotic or redneck hick would be patriotic. That patriotism is beneath a thinking person.
OK, you can put your hands down now. No need to tire you out.
I think it’s important to remember that these jerks didn’t give a damn about patriotism until they thought of working it into an anti-conservative argument.
TW: decision
Interesting thoughts, Steve.
But I think the very fact that they are knowingly promoting falsehoods that they are aware will increase the danger for troops in the field—and Americans overseas—and that they are doing so willingly, is enough to level the charge.
Horowitz’s “Unholy Alliance” talks about the patriotism that many of the American communists created – effectively it was a loyalty to ideas, rather than the country’s traditional values or history. The reason that this worked was of course that our country is democratic, so their concept of America was at least theoretically compatible so long as they could convince the nation to throw out all of its traditional ideas. If we weren’t democratic, they’d be resorting to bloodshed.
It is really the same sort of thing here, they aren’t loyal to the country, per se – just their notion of how it should be. It should follow the UN, it should vote Democratic, and if it isn’t so, they are perfectly justified in doing whatever they can to prevent it. The idea of accepting electoral defeat and the resulting policies [whether it is the Supreme Court or foreign policy] is completely anathema to them.
This summer I had a co-worker who was an American citizen, but lived in Luxembourg. Young, European, quite naive, and a sufferer of BDS. I left her talk, so she got the idea that I agreed with what she was saying. Eventually she said that the idea that the country would not vote as she wanted, indeed that it had elected Bush again [ewww!] was almost enough to make her lose faith in Democracy.
I could see the wheels turning her head. After all if you can’t trust the peons to vote as you wish, what good is voting? When she eventually found out I didn’t agree, she of course denied ever even entertaining the notion.
This isn’t of course representative of all of “the Left,” especially domestically. But the influence of these fanatics is growing, especially in the media and colleges.
“Is there not some chosen curse, some hidden thunder in the stores of heaven, red with uncommon wrath, to blast the man who owes his greatness to his country’s ruin!” – Addison
…”greatness”, in Kos’ case, extends to the small notoriety of the tin rebel.
Scratch my comments and substitute Cutler’s.
Much better, especially this:
they aren’t loyal to the country, per se – just their notion of how it should be.
They tend to be patriotic to an idealistic America, an America in progress that will only be attained when they acquire power.
As Cutler noted, many of the Communists who were secretly in service to the Soviet Union at the same time sincerely believed that they were the true patriots for they were creating a more just and fair society, a society that would no longer have racial injustice or the exploitation of workers.
My guess is that if you hooked Alger Hiss or the Rosenbergs up to a fool-proof lie detector machine and asked them: “Are you a patriot?”, they would pass.
SMG
Steve writes: It seems to me that a charge of being un-patriot must carry with it a wilfulness on the part of the party at the end of the accusation. A deliberate or wilful desire to injure the nation or its security.
If patriotism means a concern for and devotion to your nation, then one’s willful indifference or reckless disregard for the veracity of accusations and the consequences or damages that will result is enough to justify the charge of being unpatriotic.
I think a deliberate or willful desire would be necessary for treason, but I’d say being unpatriotic is a step lower.
My guess is that if you hooked Alger Hiss or the Rosenbergs up to a fool-proof lie detector machine and asked them: “Are you a patriot?â€Â, they would pass.
What if you slipped the word “American” in between “a/an” and “patriot?” Probably wouldn’t meet the global test.
If you slapped a lie detector on a serial killer, it’ll probably tell you he really, really, really believes his victims deserved to die. That doesn’t mean a jury should decide it was justifiable homicide.
Keep in mind, folks, the same group spreading these lies wanted the US to join the ICC. Had we signed onto that monstrosity, the accusations they’re leveling could have been used to haul US soldiers into trials. Can you imagine what’ll happen if any of the soldiers in the units involved in Fallujah is ever promoted to command a unit stationed somewhere in Europe?
If you slapped a lie detector on a serial killer, it’ll probably tell you he really, really, really believes his victims deserved to die.
Well, that pretty much demolishes my analogy.
However, analogies by their very nature are imprecise comparisons. So, my ass wasn’t completely handed to me.
How about trotting out Plan B in my attempt to defend the Kossacks’ patriotism.
They would argue that there’s a difference between attacking – even savagely and unfairly and even perhaps dishonestly – the government versus attacking the country. Their patriotism is a devotion to the nation qua nation and not any devotion to a particular Administration, especially this one (I’ll say).
Clinton stated in one of his SOTU addresses that “You cannot both love your country and hate your government.”
But Kos would argue otherwise. At least with the people running the government at this time.
SMG
Listen, the Democratic Party ain’t been THIS patriotic since 1860…
It is my belief that most male liberals adopt their positions in order to get more pussy!
It is my belief that most male liberals adopt their positions in order to get more pussy!
Hmm, I’ve heard of economic determinism and geographic determinism and even technological determinism (probably a dozen more but, yeah, yawn, we get the point)
Must we add poon determinism? Stink determinism?
Mojo–
As I’ve heard that “Kos” (as in Mar-COS) rhymes with “rose”– your poem needs a little help…
I will not visit John Cole’s sewer
I will not go there in an ewer.
And as for mister daily Kos
Jeez!, that asshole really blows.
TW:”north”… Kos is dumber than the north end of a south-bound donkey.
Heh.
tw: You cannot say it has anything to do with gender equality anymore. Damn, this thing is smart…
You forgot Big is Rich.
But seriously, I still cannot figure out why foul-mouthed, juvenile, partisan hacks like Kos and his friends are given the time of day by polite society. I’m not advocating suppressing their right to say whatever they want, but I’m not wasting any time listening to them either.
Is that because women tend to tell male liberals to go fuck themselves?
With all of our, “maybe they aren’t unpatriotic”, “maybe it isn’t treason”, “maybe they are too dumb to know the truth” and they have every right to continue slandering the government and trying to create a situation much worse than Vietnam.
Our side is being a hell of a lot nicer to them then they are to us. Not only that, we could end up dead because of those jackasses.
Then they will spit on our graves, kick our wounded and blame us for their suffering.