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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- In The Mailbox: 07.18.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
*
?
I have an idea: let’s have members of the last two administrations testify on the issue.
And…
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/clinton.iraq.sotu/
Plus….
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/09/1073437458359.html?oneclick=true
WASHINGTONâ€â€U.S. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas),chairman of the Emerging Threats and Capabilities Subcommittee, made the following statement Tuesday regarding efforts by Senate Democrats:
“It’s clear from this political stunt that Senate Democrats will go to extraordinary and unprecedented measures to obstruct the business of the American people. <b>Because the Democrats have no ideas or agenda of their own, they’ve made an awkward attempt at changing the subject. <b>Phase II of the pre-Iraq war intelligence investigation is and has been moving forward, but it’s a difficult and time consuming processâ€â€in other words, it’s not something that can be accomplished by tantrums.
“It is my sincere hope that they will stop the games, and return to the business of the Senate.â€Â
Hey, is that the second time I’ve heard that today? What did the Dummies accomplish???? Helped the Republicans kick off their the mid-term campaign slogan.
If the Dem leadership wants to change my view that they aren’t serious about national defense, this ain’t the way to do it.
To the earlier question about what it would take to vote Dem again, I now say there is nothing they can do to get my vote without a complete purge. I may not vote R, but there is no way I can vote for anyone above local positions with a D after their name.
If you lie during a Rule 21 session, and no reporters hear it, is it still perjury?
TW: basis
for indictment
!
Quite honestly, this is going to be fun sitting back and watching the Democratic Party implode. No spin that the MSM puts on this whole story is going to put the Dems in any positive light. And why is it that the Administation is so weak on defending itself?
So what Senator has the balls to investigate whether elements of our chief intelligence agency, which among other things studies how to compromise and kill politicians, participated in an attempt to undermine the White House? And what is said Senator’s motivation?
Man, what I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall when Dubya discusses these things with his old man, the former chief of the CIA.
Do you think that during the closed door session, Reid looked at Biden and Biden looked at Kerry and Kerry looked at Durbin and Durbin looked at Rockefeller and they all hoped that nobody outside of the room would realize they have been in office longer than Bush? And that they had been pushing the Iraq WMD story longer than Bush had?
This just in:
“Yo, bitch! You want some o’ THIS?!”
SB: federal
I shit you not
…
Nice link, “Annette” – You still got those Mickey Mouse ears?
The more the Dems do this kind of stuff, the more I think Karl Rove has minions planted throughout the Party. They can’t be coming up with this self-destructive behavior totally on their own.
Um, guys, what the fuck is everyone talking about?
I mean it. Including Bill Frist. What the fuck is he talking about the Dems “hijack[ing]” the senate?
Senate rules are followed only at the whim of 51 or more members. If the Repubs didn’t want these closed door sessions, all they had to do was have 51 of them say, “No thanks, boys.”
See, also: “Cloture Rules” (aka “Nuclear option”)
Great link, Annette.
FTR, I always though you looked fabulous in all those beach movies. But anyhoo, thanks for proving, yet again, that lefties still haven’t accepted that it’s 2005, not 1973.
But, per your linky, if it’s ALL ABOUT OIL AND EVIL BUSHCO STEALING FROM THE POOR BROWN PEOPLED COUNTRIES TOO WEAK TO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM US HEGEMONY, why is gasoline $2.82 a gallon?
Damn BushitlerChimpy, he can’t even get your basic imerialism right, the moron.
^^
RULE XXI
SESSION WITH CLOSED DOORS
1. On a motion made and seconded to close the doors of the Senate, on the discussion of any business which may, in the opinion of a Senator, require secrecy, the Presiding Officer shall direct the galleries to be cleared; and during the discussion of such motion the doors shall remain closed.
Delightful, guinsPen. I’ve read the rules before.
Now answer my question. What the fuck was Frist talking about, given the fact that Senate Rules can only be followed when a majority of members choose to?
Senate Rules are not laws. The Senate is not in any way bound to follow them.
I don’t know the answer. I think they were taken by surprise. Maybe they had several Senators out and couldn’t muster the votes immediately. I think he was more upset by the lack of collegiality the maneuver showed. I wasn’t listening closely, but I heard Durbin say he quickly seconded the motion.
Well, if that was the case, they could reopen the proceedings as soon as the Repubs came back into the chamber.
No, I think it’s pretty clear what the real reason is: Frist is worried about political consequences. He thinks if they ignore Rule 21, the Dems can claim the GOP is hurting national security by making frank and necessary inquiries into the matter impossible. Frist doesn’t think he can sell the notion that the Dems are blowing smoke, because the media has done such a wonderful job of obscuring just what the crux of thise Wilson/Plame/Rove thing is all about.
So, to recap: the Dems are dishonest jerks for doing this. Big surprise.
That doesn’t give Frist the right to also mislead people for political cover.
They did re-open. It took a couple hours.
On behalf of the Dems Byrd should take this opportunity to compose a florid apology to the Iraqi people. He can say sorry for our having ousted their rightful dictator in order to benefit Israel and Cheney’s oilmen cronies. He could explain how our Theocrat-in-Chief manipulated intell to trick some Dems into supporting OIF for a whole three days of initial combat operations (until, of course, it became evident we had another Nam quagmire on our hands). He can express deep regret over Bush’s gulag-Nazi torture policy at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib and call for Saddam’s release so that he can run Iraqi prisons the Hussein humane way. He can offer reparations to Iraq and Iraqi oil concessions to Chirac and Galloway.
While he’s about it, Byrd might want to ask Iraq’s help in overthrowing our rogue regime here at home, since Dems realize Iraqi freedom fighter insurgents are more effective and motivated than the children and impoverished minorities lured into American military servitude by filthy rich Repuglicans. He can promise the Iraqis that when Dems are reinstated to power, they’ll apologize to the Mullahs for Bush having bullied them, help Qadafi reacquire his WMD components, invite Assad back into Lebanon and ask the ICC to prosecute Scooter Libby and Tom Delay as war criminals.
Most of the Senate Donks would sign the heartfelt Apology, including Hillary who’ll use disappearing ink to keep her options open.
Cheney gets wind of Reid’s accusations and regroups…
“To Halliburton and beyoooooond!”
Ok. So again, it doesn’t seem like the Dems hijacked anything. They tried a stunt that was essentially poltiical theater. Frist’s hyperventialting about it was also political theater, designed to whip up the outrage, as well. Disappointing.
Û©Û©
SB: himself
Frist didn’t whip up my outrage, actually. Listening to Reid did.
Don’t know about Hillary, apparently she is something new…
although a neo-liberal sounds alot like what a neo-con is supposed to be to me.
The Democrats never miss an opportunity to thoroughly disappoint me. It’s depressing.
Senate rules are followed only at the whim of 51 or more members. If the Repubs didn’t want these closed door sessions, all they had to do was have 51 of them say, “No thanks, boys.â€Â
Sorry if this has been covered, but heard Senator Kyl say, that this was done while Senators were at lunch with no warning (which is impolite and a-hole-y-ish according to leader agreements.)
but…um…what the hector did it accomplish? zip, zero, nada for Dems that is…fizzzle. P-Diddy got more see-lizzle.
as for Annette (ttool for disney) the tool for the mushroom cloud brigade…all we can say is “eat my yellowcake!”
21, like most Senate rules, is probably based on mutual consent and as such presumes good faith AND has probably never really been abused. The problem here is that the Dems have run out of good faith, and are now set on a course of abusing any rule, consent-based or otherwise, for even the slightest perceived political advantage. The Republicans, being conservative, probably cannot help by being shocked by such behavior, and just like with the whole “nuclear option” thing, respond tepidly if not at all.
That being said, the Democrats in Congress need to realize what being the minority actually means, and the only ones right now who can help them out with that are the Republicans. The Republicans need to pimp-slap the Dems–HARD–every time they move to abuse the rules of Congress. If I were Frist, I would call for a vote to withdraw from Iraq immediately after forcing open the Senate doors, and then after some 80 Senators from both parties reject the option, I’d ask Reid if he had any questions.
The bottom line here is that the Democrats believe that they can overcome political defeat by simply refusing to lose. They are going to break longstanding institutional customs, flee jurisdictions to break quorums, demand recounts until their candidates “win” close elections, and appeal to the courts to change rules after the fact when they result in outcomes undesirable to them. They’re power fetishists after all, and the only thing they can associate with losing is chaos and their own personal emotional suffering. It’s up to the Republicans to teach them how to lose. After all democracy isn’t democracy unless all of the players agree to accept electoral defeat when it’s handed to them by the voters.
:peter
Wow. I haven’t seen this much earnest discussion flower out of nothing at all since. . .well, the time I went to see Barnett Newman’s ‘Stations of the Cross’.
Perhaps we should start calling Harry Reid ‘Vir Heroicus Sublimis’–that one noble little slip of a blue vertical stripe standing out boldly in a sea of red.
Has anyone told the junior Senator from Connecticut this? Maybe he should consider running. He’d do well, I’m sure.
TW: member.
Alex, I don’t know that Harry would appreciate you saying that his “noble” striping was based on “nothing at all.”
Yours/
peter.
Roscoe: re: Halliburton and Cheney. Read Miniter’s new book Disinformation. Or least the chapter on Halliburton while standing in the bookstore. It’s only seven pages long. It’s also good for Sadaam/Al-Qaeda links, WMD found in Iraq, and lots of other good stuff.
TW:read
I shit you not.
Does anyone know what CSpan was airing? The leadership should have made sure those cameras were on the doors of the Senate. Letting us all know that we weren’t allowed to see a hissy fit.
I love the suggestion earlier about forcing a vote on the war right now.
“There, you got your vote. Will you now please shut the f**k up?”
Thanks for the link. I heard Miniter on Laura Ingraham’s show today. I plan on buying his book.
Hey, Annette –
I’ve just got to thank you. I am a country music lover and you have just broken a mental block of years standing. Thanks to your post, I am inspired to write a Syrian country song called “The Green, Green, Glass Of Home”.
Thanks again. I will list you as co-writer.
Annette!
I just found your second link and am in heaven! Maybe you are getting it after all! Did you know that Hummer Juice is a mixture of water, Coricedin(? I would be amazed if I spelled that right), and vitamin E? That’s a real hummer, ain’t it?
TW: the – rhymes with Duh
You know, one could have made the argument that 2006 was going to be a very hard year for Repubs elections wise. Then harry Reed, magnanimous soul that he is, steps into help them out with this crazy stuff. I have to admit, I wonder if Harry isn’t really a Republican at heart.
*The Republicans need to pimp-slap the Dems–HARD–every time they move to abuse the rules of Congress. *
But they don’t. Someone has convinced Republican senators that its more important to get along then get things done. Unfortunately, republicans were not taught when its ok to put up your dukes.
I blame McCain mostly.
I read Annette’s link- nothing warms my heart more than the sight of those subs!! When I hear crazy news out of Iran or North Korea – the thought of those subs is like a balm for my soul.
T/w: boomer!
According to the Senate rules, when the closed session is motioned, it only needs to be seconded. IAW rules and Robert’s rules, it is not debatable and they only way is to motion for a permanate rule change.
Sure rules are not laws, but neither are rules in football, but it is not like a team could ‘vote’ to over rule an off sides call
The Squeaky Wheel:
You’re simply wrong. 100% backwards wrong.
Senate Rules are not like football rules. Football rules are imposed by an external authority on the players on the field.
Senators make their own rules, and hence only need to follow them as long as the group feels like doing so. They’re more like agreed-upon customs, as in, “We’ll do it this way until we don’t feel like it anymore.”
There doesn’t need to be any formalized rule change either. All they have to do is have 51 Senators at any time vote to ignore/change a rule, and it’s ignored/changed.
What will it take to get Bushco so damn mad that they just unload on Wilson, Reid and Co? I mean seriously drop the bomb.
If this was a movie Bush would have done it already, during a prime-time presser, with a stern forehead and a quivering lower lip.
Of course the night before he would have had a heart to heart with Laura out on the Truman Balcony, and she would have told him that “she knew he would do what is right.” Followed by a quick clinch and swelling violins. Then on his way down to the press room, he’d pass by his troubled, rebellious teen-aged son, who’s been so angry that dad doesn’t have time to play catch or talk about cars anymore that he dyed his hair black, pierced his lip and…my God…got caught drinking at a frat party BY THE PRESS (“You don’t care about me! You only care how you look on FOX NEWS!”) and his son would touch his arm and say, “You know you’re right Dad, just tell them the truth.” (I know we had to add the son in, otherwise there’s no way we’d get the tweener girls in the seats). Another tight clinch (I …love you son! Dad…sniff..I love you too…go do it…for the country…) ANd then at the end of the dramatic presser, he’d nominate his political nemesis, a single mother who’s Marine Lieutenent son has been seriously wounded by a roadside bomb while he was helping a little Iraqi girl pick up laundry that she’s dropped, and a Democratic Senator (Glenn Close? A Linda Gray comeback?)who just so happens to be standing in the back of the room to head the investigation into the chief of counter-intelligence at the CIA who orchestrated this crazy scheme to get the US to back out so the new regime of Arab nationalists will funnel trillions in oil profits to a Texas based oil company that used to be run by… get ready… the VP. That’s right, the VP. The President’s most trusted freind and advisor, who drummed up the whole war because he was almost bankrupt because of shady business deals with Pakistani arms merchants and he needed the money to leave his wife and family well off after he dies of an inoperable heart defect. Because he ‘fesses up to the deal to the President, they cut him a deal, he resigns and when he dies, he gets a state funeral and his family estate become federal property that the family can live in until the wife dies and the kids (all girls) marry and move out.
I’m thinking Harrison Ford or Mark Wahlberg.
TW: costs as in costing industry 25 billion a year, no poop.
maddad, why are you wasting this great stuff on us? You need to get yourself to Hollywood, dude – they’d kill for this kind of formulaic tear-jerker! Can you crank this kind of stuff out all day long? :D
And Russell, ease up on the rules stuff. Any two Senators can start a Rule 21 session, but as you know it takes 51 Senators to go back out of the 21 session. It also takes 51 to change the motion on the floor, or to amend or ignore the rule. There are rarely more than a handful of Seantors actually on the floor at any one time, so this was simply a play by Reid to use the Senate rules for grandstanding. As with all organizations, it fairly easy to do. I would agree, though, that it’s time the Republicans kicked some ass in return.
Well, I for one am not going to stand back and allow Harry Reid to besmirch the good names of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Madeleine Albright!
Turing Word: east, as in East of Eden.