In a “shift” from his original position, Oklahoma University President David Boren, a former chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, is now refusing to describe the explosion as a suicide:
Dustin Ellison said the student visited his store on Wednesday and asked to buy the fertilizing ingredient often used in bombs. Ellison said Hinrichs didn’t know how much he needed, and the store operator asked why the fertilizer was needed. After further discussion, Ellison said “something didn’t feel right” and decided not to sell any materials to him.
Hinrichs, 21, was a National Merit scholar from Colorado Springs, Colo. Boren said Hinrichs did not participate in a pregame recognition of freshmen National Merit scholars because he was not a freshman.
“Was he in the stadium, did he attempt to enter the stadium?” Boren asked rhetorically. “To our knowledge, at this point, the answer to that question is no.”
While saying it appears no one else is connected to the bombing, Boren made a shift in describing Hinrich’s death by saying, “I do not say suicide, I say it’s an individual death that we’re dealing with. That’s all we really know.”
Joel Hinrichs’ failed attempt to buy ammonium nitrate could prove to be key to the investigation—which, as Mark Tapscott points out, is now being led by the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Classical Values has much more, including some thoughts on the (lack of) reporting on this story. Wizbang has an additional quote from Hinrich’s father. And American Thinker’s Steve Washawsky writes:
[…] surely, in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, anyone who blows himself up in public near large crowds of people should be presumed to be a terrorist, not a bizarrely suicidal college student.
Indeed—and particularly when we consider the beard and the attempt to purchase ammonium nitrate, which would have strengthened the bomb.
More, from Michelle Malkin. And here’s a video report noting that Hinnrich attended a local mosque (h/t Glenn)
****
update: Gateway Pundit has more; in addition to trying to buy ammonium nitrate, Hinrich used the same explosive—known as “Mother of Satan” to Islamic terror groups—as shoe bomber Richard Reid.
****
update 2: Courtesy of Michelle Malkin: “Bomber’s Roommate Held Briefly After Attack”:
The Pakistani roommate of a man authorities said died when he detonated an explosive device outside a crowded football stadium was led in handcuffs from a party shortly after Saturday’s explosion, the head of an Islamic student group said.
Fazal M. Cheema, a finance major, shared a university-owned apartment with Joel Hinrichs III, 21, who died Saturday when a device attached to his body exploded as he sat on a bench outside George Lynn Cross Hall.
Cheema and three other Muslim students were led in handcuffs from a party by police after the blast, Ashraf Hussein, president of the Muslim Student Association, said Tuesday. They later were released.
Cheema is “a really, really nice guy,” Hussein said.
OU President David Boren said authorities continue to believe that Hinrichs did not try to get into the stadium and that he acted alone. He said Hinrichs’ roommate, along with his acquaintances, were questioned by federal authorities.
“All the people who lived in that building, all the people that lived in the building surrounding it, all the people who knew him well or were living in proximity to him … have been questioned; none of those people have been held by law enforcement,” Boren said.
****
update: Tigerhawk has additional info (h/t amyc)
We clearly need to understand the root cause that motivated this oppressed person.
Ever since 9/11, our governmental officials and media have a habit of shouting, “THIS WAS NOT TERRORISM!” loud and often long before they have enough facts to make such a determination. The shooting at LAX on July 4, 2002 comes to mind.
Satan has a mother!?
Has any of this been in the Denver papers? If it is, I’ve missed it. You’d think they’d have someone at least read Denver-based blogs…
Colorado freeking Springs? You’ve got to be kidding me.
No, but apparently Satam does. Sorry, Jeff, couldn’t resist.
I was referring to kelly’s comment.
Since this terrorist only blew himself up, that’s relatively good news.
Had he blown up himself and others, that would have been BAD NEWS and reflected poorly on Bush and domestic terrorism and, therefore, it would have been the lead story on every MSM outlet for a week.
Someone tell me that’s not true.
You know it does seem strange that this story has been given a pass by the MSM. Maybe CINDY needs to chime in and scream “FREE THE OKLAHOMA 1!!!!!!”
Then maybe someone might listen
I agree that ammonium nitrate is very important. As I said on the other thread (after everyone else left) you don’t use ammonium nitrate to make an explosion; you use ammonium nitrate to make an explosion bigger. It would only be useful to increase death and destruction, something that one whose only wish was his own death would want to avoid.
BTW, you left a tag open.
Also, what is the problem with authority figures and their knee-jerk reaction to dismiss Islamic terrorism at first glace?
Do you guys remember the Eygptian who gunned down 4 people at LAX back in 2002? The authorities spent days trying to convince people that it wasn’t an act of “terrorism.”
What purpose does it serve to dismiss terrorism before an investigation even gets off the ground?
Hrrrm, well, I’m not opposed to the idea that this fellow might have fallen in with Islamic terror. Just seems to be a hasty leap to make right now. I do think the angle of “dissatisfied with life, considering suicide, why not go out with a bang and ask the people most likely to help him do it” seems much more plausible. But, if he converted full-out to Islam, it is possible. Since he didn’t have many friends, I don’t know how many are gonna talk about his state of mind.
I had heard that the fertilizer he attempted to buy was also the same sort of stuff that was used in the Murrah Building… sorry, OKC bombing a while back, but I could be wrong.
Some things to note, he was a National Merit Scholar, which means he gets a sizeable amount of money to attend OU (OU has a high rate of National Merit Scholars simply because of a very lucrative scholarship package they offer.). Granted, being a NMS requires little more than 99th percentile on the PSAT, so the people who regularly humiliate standardized tests will find little difficulty in it. Anyway, money to keep attending college was likely not an issue for him.
Turing word “plan,” as in “This was too well-planned to be simply an accident.”
I didn’t hear one single word about this until the blogs picked it up yesterday. Weird.
The attempted buy of the ammonium nitrate is scarry as everyone in OK land knows what ammonium nitrate does.
But a bigger bomb by itself does not mean that he is a failed terrorist. Males who commit suicide tend to use sure methods (e.g. gun to mouth) as opposed to females (e.g drug overdose). Maybe the bomb method and his attempt to get a bigger bomb is an extension of this general rule. After all, if you are going to kill yourself with a bomb, you want to make sure it is big enough to do the job.
Can anyone confirm that he wore a vest as opposed to a backpack?
Can anyone confirm that he had extremist lit. at his apartment?
Has that mosque attendence report been confirmed? The local news just has its source as “local sources” which is too vauge to useful. After all, “local sources” reported a bus bomb being defused on the south oval.
Do we have anything besides his beard and the attempted buy of the ammonium nitrate? Or is that enough to convict him as a terrorist?
He could be one of course. Attempting to arm the bomb right before half-time to catch the crowd leaving the Stadium for more beer.
I think that the media arguement is also valid for attacking the bar next to the stadium. The party is not just indoors but outdoors. And the media would have been all over it right away just like if in the stadium.
It seems that there is a quick rush to convict this man of being a terrorist based on almost no real confirmed evidence except that he was a loner, had a beard, and died in a bomb blast.
This&That
This&That, if memory serves, you cannot reenter the stadium if you leave at halftime. In fact, I don’t even think you can enter after the game begins.
This&That —
Raising the questions is not the same as a rush to convict. I think some of us are simply a bit concerned that the MSM is not dealing with this at all.
Everything I have is sourced. You can choose to trust the sources or not.
Blowing oneself up outdoors is a strange method of suicide. And because we are engaged in a global struggle against Islamic extremism, when someone who may have converted to Islam blows himself up near a stadium after trying unsuccesfully to purchase ammonium nitrate, I think we’re being derelict if we do NOT pose these questions.
According to the MSM, radical Islamic terrorism is simply not a problem outside the context of our Middle east policy. To acknowledge it in this case would put a big dent in that position.
If it made Bush look bad, it would be all over the front page. If it embarrassed the United States, it would be all over the front page. If they believed we were genuinely under threat by radical Islam, it would be all over the front page.
tw: trying. I’m trying without success to understand why they’re such fucking idiots.
It is becoming more obvious that the authorities know more than they are releasing to the public. This latest information about the arrest of the roomate shortly after the blast makes me wonder. How was Hinrichs identified so quickly (I was under the impression that he was little bits after the blast). After he was Identified how was the roomate Identified and more importantly located so quickly. Being a college student myself at a large university, I can say it would be difficult at best to locate a student on a Saturday night (game night no less) without prior knowledge of their whereabouts.
Jeff, I think you’re on the right track, but I’d prefer if the questions sounded a bit more like “DID he convert to Islam?”
Still, you can bet that everyone’s going to be afraid of those “redneck Republikkkan Okies running out and lynching poor innocent Muslims.” So, yes, I suppose the questions do need to be asked.
Another point of perspective, the explosion occurred while sitting on a bench outside of one of the GenEd/PoliSci buildings (G.L. Cross Hall). He took out the bench and nothing else. Had he moved a few yards closer, he could have damaged the building. It is probably fair to say that this was not is intent.
Also, from THAT bench, he could walk between Cross Hall and the other buildings lining the South Oval to get right at the Stadium/Parking Garage area. I’m not sure how big security is on those days, but he most definitely didn’t make it all the way to a most effective target if he was shooting for the Stadium.
It is a clear shot from there to the Stadium, but still out of line of sight if guards were only around the Stadium perimeter, if at all. Again, I know little about gameday security. I’m not a football fan.
OHNOES
Before this event at halftime you could leave and get a wrist band to get back into the game. For the rest of this year’s home games this will no longer be allowed (much to the dismay of the local bars & trinket shops).
Jeff
I don’t object to the questions being raised and I do like the fact that you did link your sources. Raising questions suggusting that he is not a terrorist is also important, IMHO.
I don’t trust the media to report with any/much accuracy (AKA Iraq or N.O.)with out multiple sources. I agree that it is rather shameful that the MSM is ignorning this (unless they have reporters on it gathering facts and waiting to publish until they have actually confirmed those facts….yeah right).
I understand that blowing oneself up is an odd method of killing oneself. So is strangling oneself (I mean with a rope & rod, not the bag method) but it is done. Although my google search did not find any other examples of suicide by bomb (it was a quick one & hopeless clogged with real terrorist bombers) it did turn up many very odd methods of suicide. One spot suggusted outlining various suicide methods (from the silly to the practical) suggusted that if you are going to use a bomb, use a big one to be sure.
So using a method known to yourself may have seemed like a good idea….certainly it might have seemed more like a sure thing than a gun shot if he did any reseach on suicide attempts at all. Or just thought about it.
Bomb making requires some skill and this guy seems to have been using & interested in explosives for quite a while. So maybe he just selected this method to escape this world.
Again, I am not saying he was clearly a suicide; rather offering counter thoughts to the terrorist line of thought.
This&That
“the head of an Islamic student group said”
You know, I might have phrased that a little differently. But then that gets into the topic on several other of Jeff’s threads.
If there was a target, I’m inclined to believe it was something other than inside the stadium. I’m sure backpacks or bulky carrying things are either prohibited or searched. Maybe a surrounding gathering place, or simply the crowd after the game was over.
blancobrawler wrote, “(I was under the impression that he was little bits after the blast). “
According to two eyewitness who took pic’s of the bench & body. They managed to get close enough to get an angle on the video coming from the bomb robot that responded (it was at the stadium along with the bomb squad as per normal for a home game). They said they say the legs and and waist in one piece. Mind you one was an artsy student (nicely dressed for interview with a jacket and 70’s style shirt with the wide collar) and one was just a photo artist student so they coudl be wrong. They both looked pretty disgusted/shocked at the images of the body parts they saw.
So he might have had his wallet in his pants & thus was easy to ID.
This&That
blancobrawler. great questions. well, they are the same ones I had anyway. Although, maybe campus police know where every MSA “party” takes place? The stuff on gateway pundit’s site about a Moussaoui link in Norman is scary. I hope somebody thinks to have a little chat with the fella who tried to get on a plane at the OKC airport with itty bitty IEDs a couple of months back. Remember him? 24 year old OU undergrad? Family friends with the governor?
Still the thing that seems the strangest is the ability to identify his roomate and locate him. I’m only saying that the authorities probably have a lot more information than what is being released.
The apartments where he lived are owned by OU. Only those who are activly enrolled at OU can live there (& spouses/kids if any). If you are enrolled your name is known, noted along with your pic (student ID’s and such).
There is a fair chance that his roommate was at home at a ‘party’ (e.g. grilling food and swilling booze as per normal for a sat night) at the time of the blast & the cops simply went the the bomber’s apartment, found him there (or someone who knew where he was) and took him away.
But I agree that the cops etc. are not telling everything they know. Hopefully not in order to protect us but to help id any other attacks or id people with knowledge that was not released.
This&That
Yes, the authorities probably do have more information than they’re releasing. But why are they not releasing it? To investigate terrorism or to stop us knuckle dragging inherently racist Amurricans from going on a killing spree?
The LAX killer shot up an El Al counter, an action straight out of every terrorist manual since the 1960s. The FBI got his computer, too. He comes from the same area as Adam Ghadan and Islamic leaders like M. Siddiqi who have made inflammatory anti-US speeches in the past. Still no arrests, explanations, nothing. I ask again, why?
hmmm, another question. How/why was the roommate released so quickly? Something tells me that I would have gotten to spend the night in the campus pokey had explosives been found in my apartment. Has Mr. Cheema been seen since that night?
here is alink to the OU student paper about the bomber
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/03/43420103cdca9
apparently (according to father) he was in treatment/counseling for depression before the bombing. That should be confirmable. Plus the police are probably getting a look at the session notes.
As to why the roommate was released so quickly. I don’t have a good answer for that. I don’t know if he has been to class or not. He is not staying at his apartment right now though. Maybe he had some real good story like his family members have been killed by Islamic terrorists (or whatever) & was deemed not a threat.
This&That
This&That
No one, yet, is trying to call this terrorism, but to conclusively call it a lone successful suicide attempt in light of what is happening in the world today is just as, if not more, negligent as conclusively calling it terrorism.
Jeff points to numerous sources that claim there are some rather odd coicidences popping up that need to be investigated.
My point, however, is that a young man blowing himself up outside of a heavily populated area should provide enough suspicion for authorities to not rule out the possibility of terrorism without conclusive evidence to the contrary. I still do not understand why authorities are so quick to rush to conclusion that an event is “isolated”, when in fact their is ample reason to pursue an investigation into terrorism.
My intention is not to scare people, but hastily formed, false conclusions do not help either.
TF6S
I agree with your statement that the cops etc. should not rule out terrorism for any reason.
I disagree with your statement that, “No one, yet, is trying to call this terrorism…”
example on this thread: Hoodlumman wrote, “Since this terrorist only blew himself up, that’s relatively good news.”
I would say that most are trying to be reasonable so that is good.
I am not trying “…to conclusively call it a lone successful suicide attempt….” although I know that you were not claiming that I am doing that but rather the various police.
Just offering counter-thoughts to various specific bits of evidence.d
For example; if he was depressed (confimable by checking his psych records from his shrink see OU paper link I cited above) did he mention suicide? Anger towards others? Political thoughts? Bush hater? Those records may offer very clear insight into his motives & there may be reasons why such informaton is not being released.
Of course, he could have been a failed terrorist. But he might not have been either.
This&That
I think the police should announce that they think it’s terrorism and let everyone know who they’re looking at in their investigation. That way any possible would-be terrorist in the area will not have their rights violated by being surprised by the investigation.
It seems that blowing yourself up in public (even without harming anyone else) is terrorism. Most suicides don’t have the potential to kill others.
We already had this conversation WRT “suicide-” vs. “homicide-bombers.” We settled on “suicide-,” which means that the bomber kills himself on purpose by detonating a bomb. No homicide implied. That’s what this guy did.
If this isn’t terrorism then we need to have the conversation again.
Was he a terrorist? Nah, probably just a nice, everyday Joe who kept a couple bombs in his backpack. I mean, it’s not like we don’t all do that sometimes, right?
For Pete’s sake, folks. If you build a bomb, take it to a place where there’s a lot of people, and detonate it–you’re a terrorist!
I’m thinking Foxworthy may can use this as a launching pad for some new material. “If you’ve ever settled for your second choice of explosives to build a bomb . . .”
Not to put forth any really big conspiracy theories, but anyone think this may have some connection with the Murrah Building attack? It came at a time in which the U.S. was in denial about the Radical Muslim threat. If there’s really a mosque in Oklahoma that promotes that brand of Islam, it may shed a new light on that attack. It came after the attack on the WTC that was Al-Qaeda linked, and it was a Federal building.
TW: “mother”
of satan?
Please move along, there is no Islamicomutant-based terrorism to see here, please move along. Thank you.
bodiddly I highly recommend this link
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2005/10/oklahoma-sooners-aptly-named.html
tigerhawk draws in the Murrah bombing as well
According to the MSM, radical Islamic terrorism is simply not a problem outside the context of our Middle east policy. To acknowledge it in this case would put a big dent in that position.
Which begs the question: How will the MSM try to frame an outright real suicide attack if/when it occurs on US soil?
Which begs the question: How will the MSM try to frame an outright real suicide attack if/when it occurs on US soil?
That’s too easy. Obviously, it will be the direct result of our Middle-East strategery. If McChimplerburton hadn’t gone off half-cocked and imposed our imperialistic ideals on Iraq, then we clearly wouldn’t have to deal with suicide-bombers in our midst.
TigerHawk linked this image. Note that the scale there is such that I could throw a rock from the detonation spot and peg the stadium (Barely, I’m a keyboard commando mind you.). Note that the field is highlighted, but the entire area around it is the stadium itself, with the box to the left being the OU Bookstore kinda merged under the stadium parking garage.
A hat tip! :-0 I’m interested in OKC stuff because we may move there next year. That’s why I still wonder about the guy with his cartridge IEDs from a month or so ago. It sure seems poor OKC has a problem. Just skippy.
word is areas–as in why do military families have to live in such, um, interesting areas
I can think of a reason for the authorities to automatically downplay any suggestions of terrorism.
The purpose of terrorism is to, well, terrorize. Killing people is a method, not a primary goal. If word of a terrorist incident starts going round, people will be afraid. Terrified, in fact. Which makes the terrorist incident successful.
If, on the other hand, the talk ‘round town and the blogosphere concentrates on suicide and other nasty but not terrifying versions, people will be concerned and worried but not severely frightened. Not terrified. The terrorist attempt fails to terrorize.
If terrorist attempts continually fail, some of the terrorists will quit in frustration. Others will become more frustrated and angry, and frustrated angry people make stupid mistakes that make them easier to catch. This may already be happening.
I don’t think any of us have the guts to take that all the way—“Oklahoma 7, Milquetoast College 22 in a game delayed by an official time out during the third quarter, when a bomb went off…” Treat terrorism the way we do car accidents, in other words. But it makes some sense for investigating authorities to downplay the terrorist aspect, if any.
And as long as we’re floating theories, “terrorism” vs. “suicide” isn’t mutually exclusive. Suppose the guy had been recruited as a splodeydope, but not sufficiently indoctrinated. On the way to the stadium he had second thoughts and didn’t go in. Sitting on the bench, he realized that his life would be Hell from now on, with cops and reporters always in his face. Solution? yank the pin.
Regards,
Ric
oh, OKC’s main problem is that it’s a huge parking lot. i need to get rto to follow up with his dad on this. (iirc he was briefly assigned to look for john doe no.2)
As someone who has lived in OKC all his life, I can say a few things.
1) The folks are pretty nice at times.
2) I haven’t died yet, so our bouts of attempted terrorism haven’t done their job.
ohnoes, you seem like a nice guy. i’ve got this sister that lives in norman….
I’m the sort of guy where about 70% or so of the female gender is out of my league, of the remaining 30%, 60% of them simply don’t mesh with my nerdy interests. So unless your sister has a doughy nerd fetish, ye’d probably save us all some time by hanging up the phone.
Appreciate the offer though, seriously.
But, yes, this is Oklahoma’s horizon… in ASCII.
_______________________
You’ll be fine in Oklahoma. At least we’re beyond most hurricanes. We’ve got tornadoes, but, again, those are just more odds of catastrophe. A tradeoff, of sorts, for the whole lack of risk of getting mugged in NY or something like that.
Last I heard, OK was also highest in the nation for meth labs, so if you want some meth…
Anyway, to REAL news, in the OU Daily today, they mentioned that, at gate 6 of the OU Stadium entry, a student attempted to enter, but ran off when the guard asked to search his backpack.
According to a source, gate 6 is on the correct side for him to have made it outside Cross Hall.
Also PERHAPS contributing to the bomb in the backpack idea is the hearsay I have heard that, and don’t quote me on this, the bomb might have only blown his upper body off, allowing the police to recover his wallet and ID him. I HAVE heard from a more reliable source that of the students actually INSIDE Cross Hall during the game, one of them came out, saw what had happened, and told everyone to stay inside (Which would corroborate the idea that it was a gruesome sight.).
Now, again, the bench is about 15-20 feet away from Cross Hall (Running away from the stadium, our suicide bomber could have easily made his way there, it is out of eyesight of the stadium and guards.), and the only damage that happened was blowing off his own torso, if the hearsay and rumors piece together…
Anyway, I guess we can all be glad he didn’t get that fertilizer.
OKC locals! Wow! Nothing wrong with doughy nerds OHNOES. Glad our little friends haven’t gotten to you yet
.