The reflexively anti-Bush headline aside (about which John Cole has more), this is an important article in that some of the behind-the-scenes machinations between the local and federal governments in the wake of the levee breaks are beginning to come to light:
Tens of thousands of people spent a fifth day awaiting evacuation from this ruined city, as Bush administration officials blamed state and local authorities for what leaders at all levels have called a failure of the country’s emergency management.
President Bush authorized the dispatch of 7,200 active-duty ground troops to the area—the first major commitment of regular ground forces in the crisis—and the Pentagon announced that an additional 10,000 National Guard troops will be sent to Louisiana and Mississippi, raising the total Guard contingent to about 40,000.
Authorities reported progress in restoring order and electricity and repairing levees, as a hospital ship arrived and cruise ships were sent to provide temporary housing for victims. As Louisiana officials expressed confidence that they had begun to get a handle on the crisis, a dozen National Guard troops broke into applause late Saturday as Isaac Kelly, 81, the last person to be evacuated from the Superdome, boarded a school bus.
But there remained an overwhelming display of human misery on the streets of New Orleans, where the last 1,500 people were being evacuated from the Convention Center amid an overpowering odor of human waste and rotting garbage. The evacuees, most of them black and poor, spoke of violence, anarchy and family members who died for lack of food, water and medical care.
About 42,000 people had been evacuated from the city by Saturday afternoon, with roughly the same number remaining, city officials said. Search-and-rescue efforts continued in flooded areas of the city, where an unknown number of people wait in their homes, on rooftops or in makeshift shelters. Hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced by the flooding—250,000 have been absorbed by Texas alone, and local radio reported that Baton Rouge will have doubled in population by Monday. Federal officials said they have begun to collect corpses but could not guess the total toll.
Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.
The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. “Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals,” said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.
A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.
Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.[my emphases]
Sure, it took until the sixth paragraph for the Post writers to get to the gist of why the White House is “shifting blame”—specifically, that they weren’t at fault for the delays, and in fact, if they are to be blamed for anything it is for being too deferential to the local government —but hey, at least the paper managed to shoehorn it into the story after the requisite top-loading of “continued suffering and misery.” And really, beggers can’t be choosers.
Bottom line: I’ve been saying from the get go—to the hysterics on the right as well as to the gloating hyenas on the left — that politicizing this tragedy by laying blame, particularly in the early stages while rescue efforts are still ongoing, is not only vile and petty, but a serious political miscalculation, as well.
As the facts continue to come out, we’ll see if I was correct—and if the rapid fact-checking of the blogosphere turns the tide and causes a backlash—or if early attempts by the MSM and its “progressive” proxies to frame the narrative of this disaster as a Bushco failure is already too woven into the public’s consciousness to be overcome by anything so rhetorically retrograde as “facts”.
****
update: Lots of discussion in the comments here. And then there’s this, from the St Petersburg Times:
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco doesn’t want the buck to stop in her office, either. “We don’t get into the blame game,” Blanco said. “We just work with what we got.” As the state’s chief executive, she could have had fleets of buses ready to evacuate a clearly vulnerable population, temporary shelters identified outside the city and emergency supplies at the ready. So there’s a good reason Blanco doesn’t want to assign blame; she would be pointing at herself.
Is the pendulum of blame starting to swing…?
(h/t Cattt in LGF comments)
****
Shadow of the Hegemon’s Demosthenes disputes the above story and notes that Blanco requested federal aid on the 26th. I responded here:
If I have my facts correct, declaring a state of emergency was done it advance for all the states in Katrina’s wake. This allows the Feds to have emergency funds ready for allocation. The President did in fact declare the areas a disaster area in anticipation of the storm hitting.
All of which has nothing to do with allowing the Feds to take over evacuation procedures or order in the military, I don’t think.
Unfortunately, I don’t have any expertise in bureaucratic protocol, so if somebody can shed additional light on this, I’m all ears. The Stafford Act appears to me to be all about requesting federal funding; I don’t see anything about surrendering jurisdictional control.
I think many of us keep hoping such a backlash against leftist idiocy will occur. I don’t see it happening, ever. When the facts which contradict their narrative arrive, those in the MSM seem to ignore what they said before, and move on to a new topic. I don’t see that changing.
I guess I’m a gloomy gus.
Funny you should mention that, david, because it looks like this “MSM” outlet paid a little too much attention to that “official”…
As this certainly looks like a declaration of a state of emergency.
Yep, that’s a state of emergency all right.
As for the wrangling, well…
Bolding mine. You like bolding the incriminating stuff so much, Jeff, I figured I’d respond in turn.
It certainly LOOKS like Bush had the go-ahead. Happened on the 26th, too. Oh, and as you no doubt know, DHS/FEMA policy requires that in these sorts of situations, local and state officials defer to their coordination. Pity that such coordination was lacking, but them’s the breaks, huh?
So, how’s about that “fact-checking” now, chum?
I’ve been putting this together all weekend from what I’ve been seeing and hearing at the Guard Armory in Okahoma. My company rolled 18 5 ton trucks and 40 troops to backfill the 2 battalions we sent.
I received the phone call on Wednesday, so the timing of the activation of EMAC was obvious. That call would have gone out mere hours after the papers were signed.
What people don’t know is what calling out the Guard entails. We have to notify everyone in the individual companies that have been alerted. Time has to be allowed for assmebly and not everyone is at their phones–they go out for a myriad of reasons, or on vacation or away on business…. Figure a minimum of 24 hours to get everyone together.
Once assembly starts and accountability is made, then inspections begin. All the equipment that will be needed is hauled out and checked. Just because it worked when you used it last month, doesn’t mean it will work now. You fix deficienies or figure a workaround.
Then you inspect the troops. Who can actually be utilized? A decision was made for us that those who were enrolled in college classes should not be deployed, nor should those scheduled for Army schools. Also, anyone already on orders for pre-existing missions could not be committed to the new effort.
Once you know who is actually going, you have to make certian that they have all the individually assigned equipment that they will need as well as food, water and clothes to carry with them. In this case we were told that the only consumable that would be provided was air. 30 days of food and water would have to be brought with us as it would NOT be provided on site.
I spent 3 hours just making certain that my troops’ gas-masks were clean, serviceable and that they could use them to standard. They were annoyed with me, but I knew that there are gas leaks around the city.
So Thursday we reported, Friday we prepared, Saturday we packed and the package rolled out.
At 45 miles per hour, it will arrive late on Monday or early Tuesday.
Demosthenes,
A letter to the President is not the way that this is done under the Stafford Act.
The Governor must apply to the Regional FEMA office. Doing that through the Oval Office, just makes the process take longer.
Demosthenes —
If I have my facts correct, declaring a state of emergency was done it advance for all the states in Katrina’s wake. This allows the Feds to have emergency funds ready for allocation. The President did in fact declare the areas a disaster area in anticipation of the storm hitting.
All of which has nothing to do with allowing the Feds to take over evacuation procedures or order in the military, I don’t think.
Demosthenes, I read that link entire, and can’t help but note two things: 1) all that letter from the governor to the president does is request that the federal government declare a state of emergency (which it did), and 2) request $9 million in aid.
It does not, in any way shape or form, grant control of operations to the federal government, which is what the president wanted & needed in order to salvage the situation.
What’s more, are you arguing that the WaPo reporter simply fabricated this story?
I apologize. I misunderstood the nature of the letter you referenced. However, note that the State has to estimate and approve the nature of federal aid that will be required.
You should read through the list in “Enclosure A” to see what the governor asked for.
But more to the point, what the fuck is up with the politicization of this whole thing? Can’t people wait for the godamned bodies to be put in the ground first? At the very least? Is that too fucking much to ask?
You’ll note, that was Jeff’s main point. As he put it (perhaps you didn’t read this far?)
Which is a bit nicer than the way I put it:
Here’s the Stafford Act link. It appears to be all in the service of requesting federal funds for emergencies and NOT about requesting a federal takeover of jurisdiction.
…
I have nothing to add except for something which has already been said.
Cole’s comments section is filled with nitwits! Yikes!
Well, it is a Bushco failure ….
a) Plus moneys was spent on the Iraq adventure when it should have been spent on reinforcing the levee systems in order to withstand the predicted cat 5.
b) FEEMA was gutted, outsourced and privatised after 9/11 by the free-market ideologies, losing its skills base so now it is just crap, as anyone in New Orleans will attest to. God help America in the event of a big hit by terrorists.
c) It seems he spent the first two days of the emergency playing golf – unbelievable!!
d) His speech was insipid, harldly inspiring.
The referenced part of the Stafford act 501 (a):
Demosthenes (or Valentine Wiggin) bolded the wrong part from the Gov.’s letter. Here’s the part that matters:
It’s possible that “Special Needs Program assistance” means something important too, but if it does, nobody mentioned it to Google. “Emergency protective measures” can (and presumably do, here) include evacuation assistance. But even though the word “specific” is in the sentance, it isn’t at all specific. Presumably, this was not the final word on the matter.
The thing is, POTUS does not have the authority to order the Louisiana National Guard to commandeer a cheese sandwich, in state. I’m sure Karl Rove will get around to striking Posse Comitatus from the books (all the better to disenfranchise black voters), but he hasn’t yet. If the Governor can show specific instances of the Federal Government failing to provide specifically requested assistance, she’ll have a point. That point hasn’t been established, yet.
I have some thoughts about Emergency Planning and Evacuation procedures at the lowest level possible in Society, not Federal, not State, not County, not City.
I have them in an essay called
Do you know your neighbors?
I would welcome peer review and comment.
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/kentuckydan/CommitteesofCorrespondence/index.blog?entry_id=1078095
Pity that FEMA wasn’t gutted and privatized. How many Walmart trucks do you suppose ended up sitting in flooded New Orleans the way fleets of NO busses did? I bet not one.
Beck wrote:
No, that might let cooler heads prevail and keep them from blaming the President. Obviously, the ghouls using this tragedy can’t have that happen.
Also, how dare you deprive the ghouls of their food supply by advocating the corpses be buried?! Sheesh.
Why, when New Orleans flooded, did the waters slosh over the sides of the drainage canals, and not the walls of Lake Ponchartrain itself?
On the Levees of New Orleans
But that is my point .. it was .. you can’t argue with fact:
.
For a great education on what it takes to respond to a disaster like this, go Jason’s blog, Countercolumn..http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/.. He is an officer in the Florida National Guard so he kinda knows what he’s talking about.
t/w “went”, like I went there and got smarter
Wadard,
I’m sorry, but linking to one or two indy articles does not qualify as fact. There is no perspective or context to those statements. Many FEMA duties may have overlapped with other agencies like Homeland Security, and were redundant.
TW higher. ground.
You have to understand the left-wing mentality (such as it is) to understand their “Bush gutted FEMA meme”.
It’s pretty simple, actually. If Bush isn’t shoveling cash at rates which, year over year, must increase in both real dollars and percentage growth, to multiple, redundant and sometimes wasteful federal agencies, then he’s “gutting” said agencies. And all for the express purpose of furthering his anti-gay, anti-black, anti-poor, corporate fascist agenda.
Hmmmm gutting of FEMA … Having worked for Coastal Zone Management for a NE state … the federal govt gives generously to the states so they can develop their own hurricane preparedness plans. The theory being that local govt should be better equipped to assess needs than some out of state, far away, agency. I would venture an educated guess the State LA and NO had many disaster planning positions funded by the feds. I base this on the direct knowledge that my position was funded by the feds. I guess this is the evil “farming” out of positions refered to by the left. Furthermore when federal regulators came to assess our program it was often discussed how some other states were not doing their job. If a locality is not doing its job the feds do have the right to with-hold funding. I would be interested to learn how much fed money LA received for this planning. Finally, based on what I have seen it was money wasted.
Wadard, you are trading in fantasies. As has been shown, the levees that failed had been recently upgraded. The budget proposals never included strengthening the levees to Category 5.
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are trying to cover up their failures leading up to the arrival of the hurricane and continuing thereafter by blaming the Bush administration. Blanco had control of the Louisiana National Guard and Nagin had control of the New Orleans city government. Both squandered key hours and key resources.
“The President’s action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act.” (White House release, 8/27/05)
“In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.” (Homeland Security Homepage)
And there’s also this: “New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state’s National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn’t come from Washington until late Thursday.” I don’t know what that paperwork is, and why it would have to come from Washington. Therefore, I cannot anecdotally piece together the question of jurisdiction.
The attempt by the Bush dead enders to deflect all responsibility toward Governor Blanco and MAyor Nagin and away from the pathetic performance by the Administration is breathtaking.
I am sure there are many points of criticism due to the state and local administration. But there is not doubt that the Mayor urged the citizens to evacuate, and it is also a matter of record that Governor Blanco declared an emegency AND sought federal assistance before the hurricane struck.
What they got in response. A variation of the standard Bush responses: We didn’t know. It is hard work.
Now we find out that the repair of a levee, inspected by Bush during PhotoOp 1.0 was a phony. All the equipment was removed once he left. ditto n emergency feeding station, taken away once the President left.
Contrast this with the very energetic response to the situation in Flroida last year where, conincidentally, John Kerry was leading in the polls before the first hurricane struck.
Ken, no, its your attempt that is truly astonishing. It was Blanco who herself admitted that the President had to call her and Nagin to get them to order evacuation belatedly. But you simply state that there was “not doubt” that he ordered it? It was Nagin who whined on TV about not having any buses when it is obvious that New Orleans city government allowed hundreds of buses to be lost.
Ken, grow up. The adults are busy trying to clean up the mess Louisiana politicians made, and we don’t have time to address the fact that you filled your diaper.
A day late. And then when prompted by Bush.
Which was received.
For which he was blamed for being opportunistic.
Serioualy, it seems like the Loud Left says “It’s Bush’s fault. Reasons why shall be provided at a later date.”
Everyone wants to criticize the time it took for Federal assistance to arrive in New Orleans but the reality is that Federal planning guidelines instruct the state and local governments to expect Federal aid to take 3 to 4 days to arrive and be prepared to handled the situation for that long.
Robin And Steve:
The record is there for all to see. Like all selective quoters, you left out my statement that there was surely well deserved criticism due to the Mayor and the Governor. You can make your feeble attempts at ridicule, but all you do is prove there is nothing more dangerous than uninformed certainty overlaid with a political agenda.
That doesn’t change the fact that Bush and Company, with Sec. Chertoff fronting, are simply trying and lie and obfuscate away their own failures. Except they are on display for all to see and all the carping about “MSM” ain’t gonna fly.
I wasn’t one to criticize federal aid to Florida. That state was hit hard and that’s what the feds are for. The federal government has resources that dwarf even those of the biggest states. But Steve, you are right: in retrospect it seems as if the response in Florida was politically motivated.
Robin: the adults left the building that is the Bush White House a long time ago. This is what you get when you are “led” by a lazy country club gald hander, whose chief adviser is an over age degenerate college pol.
Ken:
But there is not doubt that the Mayor urged the citizens to evacuate…
But very late, and only after Bush’s urging, no?
…and it is also a matter of record that Governor Blanco declared an emegency AND sought federal assistance before the hurricane struck.
Well, if we assume Demosthenes’ post is correct (not sure, I haven’t checked the links), then yeah, she did make the request. But also in Demosthenes’ post is this bit:
A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.
But we’ve all seen the infamous flooded bus pics, and we’ve all seen the official Plan for this event which mentions the use of those busses. Given those facts and this new letter to Bush, I have no choice but to conclude that the LA government has failed completely.
1) The letter to Bush claims that the Plan is being put into effect, so the governor obviously knew about the Plan.
2) The FEMA people, who presumably have a copy of the LA government Plan, expect the Plan to be followed and start getting follow-on plans in place.
3) The Plan, as we now know, envisions the busses being used to evacuate the city.
4) The busses were not used at all, except by one enterprising young man who stole one to rescue 100 people.
5) FEMA’s follow-on plan is shot to hell because the original Plan was not followed. And the LA government won’t get the fuck out of the way and let the Feds fix the LA gov fuckup.
How is this anyone’s fault but the local and state government? They SAID they were following the Plan, and they clearly did not follow it! They don’t even know what their own goddamn plan is! How much more black and white can it be?
Ken, when you start out a post with “Bush dead enders” why should you expect any thing you blather subsequent to that phrase be taken seriously?
All I know is, Bush declared a state of emergency before the storm. Yet the local officials did not move one bus, authorize overtime for one driver or even order the residents to get out. They bickered over control, as even Nagin put it, and nothing got done until the pictures on TV were so terrible that the feds stepped in. Yes, FEMA’s Brown should go (but when did Bush fire anybody) but the locals have got to explain why they did not implement their their already codified plan.
Even now, Blanco has found the time to hire her own adviser, former Clinton FEMA guy, and start her own disaster fund. Why else except to keep control of the money?
Tom K:
Do you live in the real world? Have you ever worked for a governor and a mayor during a hurricane? Plans get made. I have. Things go wrong. It’s real life. In war it’s called friction: what happens when plans meet real life.
I worked for the mayor of a city that sits at the head of a bay. The downtown is low lying and was seriously flooded twice in the 20th century. The Army Corp of Engineers built an expensive, powerful Hurricane Barrier to keep out furture storm surges. (IT worked. I inspected i during the ‘cane.) It wasn’t a huge huricane. Some stuff worked. Some didn’t. For instance, we came very close to losing the city water supply (but that’s another story).
The failures and screwups at the local level do not excuse the lethargy and failure of the feds. Even the Fox News folks on the ground don’t buy it. The fact is: Nagin and Blanco asked for help, and they asked well before the storm hit.
And let’s despose of Chertoff’s repeated lie that nobody anticipated the failure of the levees. It was well settled that a category 4 or 5 storm would likely flood the bowl of NO. A storm of that magnitude was forecast, well in advance. For awhile it appeared that the city doodged the bullet, the the levees failed. According to Certoff this morning, all he knew he read in the paper (This is the head of Homeland Security?) what we learned was that even though they knew a catastrophic event was coming, no assets were placed in advance to deal with it.
Darelene:
Checked out your website. Although meant humorously, I think the term Bush dead-ender applies to you. Hey, where your colors proudly! As Bush has his Jimmy Carter moment of transcedent failure, you’ll be needing to comfort each other.
It’s been nice batting the ball around with you folks I gotta say it’s a beautiful day here in New England. Seventy something, dry nice breeze. The Sox are first place by three and a half games and I’m going down with my family to the coast to have an old fashioned Rhode Island Shore Dinner.
So see you later. I’ll have a bowl of steamers for you.
Memo: Pre Cloud Notice
Dear 100,000 employees of Union Carbide:
In 3 days we are going to launch a chemical cloud that has the potential of killing 10,000 employees. Of course it may not, depending on which way the wind blows.
If it does blow our way we will use the hundreds of company buses, sitting on various lots on company grounds, to assist after the fact.
Until then it is suggested that you might want to leave ahead of the cloud. Just a suggestion mind you, we don’t want to offend anyone.
Have a good day.
Sincerely,
Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
President
Ray Nagin
Vice President
P.S. Future complaints should be referred to the President of General Motors and its share holders.
I really, really hate to jump in with this at this time. But the anger is slowly building and I have to vent.
As someone who was born in New Orleans, has relatives buried in New Orleans, has relatives living there and in the suburbs (Kenner, Metairie), I’ve known (along with anyone remotely familiar with the state and the city) about the incredible corruption and inefficiency of the state and local government.
The schools are awful, the public services are awful, the police and security is awful. For more than a decade, the state of Louisiana has been the only southern state losing population. That’s right: LOSING population. People move out of the state and go to Texas or Mississippi or elsewhere.
It is mind boggling watching NO city officials, Parrish officials, state officials blaming Washington – and Washington alone – for this terrible tragedy.
Yes, the Federal Government was tardy (to say the least) in getting relief help there. I’m not sure what caused the problems – bureaucratic screwups, the damage to the I-10 main highway, et cetera – but for these local officials to shift the blame is just appalling.
Compare the behavior by Nagin, Landrieu et al. to that of the officials in Mississippi and Alabama. Barbour and Riley are taking on the difficulties. Things are bad in Mississippi – Gulfport and Biloxi are literally gone. Just gone. And yet the state and local officials there has some skeleton response to mitigate the damages for the first 3-4 days.
Why did Mississippi – hardly a wealthy state – do reasonably well but Louisiana so poorly.
Enough from me. I’ve got trees in my backyard to pickup (I live just outside of Mobile).
SMG
Jeff, I believe you are partly right about the Stafford Act. It is mainly about financial assistance and coordination of aid agencies. The references to jurisdiction I see in there refer to state and local authorities keeping their authority through a state of emergency.
I believe the relevent part of the statute is Sec. 403(c):
IANAL, but it looks like the Governor specifically has to request troops. It does not look like the President can send them in on his own authority just because a state of emergency has been declared.
And I’m not convinced that state or local authorites are under any legal obligation to defer to the feds. I haven’t found the relevant part of the statute yet (because IANAL), but look at Sec. 306:
All the language in the Act makes the feds sound as if they defer to the local authorities. And all of this is after a state of emergency is declared.
Here’s the quick legal skinny: There’s a difference between money and boots on the ground; the governor (surprise!) immediately asked for the former.
Undert the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. § 1385), the president can’t use armed forces (including national guard in federal service) for law enforcement absent congressional directive. (Some courts, however, have held that this does not apply to the Navy (U.S. v. Yunis, 924 F.2d 1086 (C.A.D.C. 1991)) and the Coast Guard (U.S. v. Chaparro-Almeida, 679 F.2d 423 (5th Cir. 1982)), both of which seem to be more useful here, since it looks like that nobody without boats can provide any serious logistical or enforcement functions in NO.)
But upon request of the governor, or perhaps on his own initiative, the president can use the federal military by invoking the Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. §§ 331-34). What’s happening in NO might be called “insurrection†or “rebellion,†but that’s a politically-dangerous stretch.
Ken and all of you other people that claim FEMA was late to the party. Look here.
This is the operable quote.
Read the whole thing. I’m not much of a Wikipedia fan, but they appear to have the timeline down, with appropriate links.
Which is why a bunch of people in the center and on the right (BUSH APOLOGISTS, ALL OF THEM! LICKSPITTLE SYCOPHANTS!!) have been suggesting we focus our efforts on unfucking this mess in New Orleans and the GUlf and trying to figure out what went wrong and who is to blame a little later. Like maybe in a couple weeks, ya’ know. After people stop dying, perhaps.
Instead, the left has been busy flinging cadavers at Bush, starting with the attempts to blame the levee failure on him, and they are shocked (SHOCKED!! OUTRAGED!!! SHAMELESS!!) that the administration and others are saying things like “Hey- wait aminute. There have been failures all over the place here.”
Just saying…
John,
I was just over to your site. What a cesspool you have in your comments section. Not one single commentator offerred up the Gov of LA as the one single person responsible for the fucked up aftermath.
Not one even mentioned the fact that she alone was the person who had the authority to call in the National Guard. Not one even thought to assigne responsibility for the horrid conditions at the Superdome and Convention Center to the idiot Nagin who put those people there with insufficient food and water.
That bastion of right wing nuttery, the LA Times, even had to admit that the Feds have no control over the LANG.
They all see it as an opportunity to bash Bush. They are giving a pass to the one person responsible for the abandonment of all those people: Nagin and a pass for the one person responsible for the huge fuckup after the fact: Blanco.
John Cole is right. It’s funny I’ve taken a tour of the center-right blogs that have covered this Washington Post article. The lefty comments there have morphed a bit as people have begun to figure out that maybe the local officials weren’t all heroes. Now the left meme is, well of course NO is corrupt. Of course, both Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco did less than stellar jobs. That’s the President’s fault, too.
That’s a very telling shift in the left’s argument, and one the average voter will notice, despite the MSM. I have a feeling the political hay the left is attemtping to make off this will turn rancid on them before they get it in the barn.
Oh, and the average voter is also going to notice that the WAPO added a more inflamatory headline to the article in question after people began to notice what it said about local government. We may be distracted out here. We aren’t stupid.
Oh, by the way. My local newspaper (KC Star) has already started the blame Bush meme. I challenged one news article that had the reporter’s opinion inserted and the basis of an editorial along with the overall coverage of this tragedy.
Nowhere in the paper (various articles and Op Ed’s) was there any mention of Bush not having control of the NG or any culpability assigned to local and state authorities.
Ken, refilling your diaper and whining about does nothing to change my opinion of your comments.
You falsely claim not to be excusing local and state failures even as you excuse them. Blanco and Nagin had the resources they claimed to need but they squandered them.
If Ken ever stops stuffing his face with steamers and, hopefully starts installing spellchecker on his ‘puter … maybe he can explain why Mayor Nagin was on the radio last Thursday screaming for troops and 500 buses when he left at least 205 buses of his own idle and now nothing more than a source of pollution and future art installation dedicated to Nagin’s superlative planning.
”But there is not doubt that the Mayor urged the citizens to evacuate”
And there is not doubt that many refused to do so (others, of course, were willing, but the Nagin Administration—whether through negligence, incompetence, or a desire to use the forthcoming disaster for political advantage—refused to make the means available to them).
Now, a portion of the blame that would otherwise be his cannot be justly laid at Nagin’s feet. For at least a generation, the American left has demanded that any response to a crisis must be perfect in scope (does anyone remember the abuse that the Ford administration received for its response to the threat of a swine flu epidemic?) Nagin could, of course, predict the exact magnitude of the disaster no more than any man; it was a virtual certainty that, whatever he ordered or did not order, either his orders would have included measures seen as unnecessarily harsh after the fact, or that they would be seen as leaving undone that which should have been done.
Nonetheless, Nagin’s response fell far short of what it should have been, apparently on the theory that it should not be seen as unnecessarily harsh (has anyone doubts that, had he ordered a genuinely mandatory evacuation—one enforced by armed LEOs and troops —he would have been blamed for every bit of the inevitable death and disruption that followed, particularlly if Katrina had not wreaked such destruction?)
Nagin gambled with lives for political considerations, and lost.
And then tried to blame everyone else for his own decisions, Braue.
Ken:
Do you live in the real world? Have you ever worked for a governor and a mayor during a hurricane?
In short, yes, I have. Specifically, on the military side, in logistics. In every case, it took over a week to get significant federal and Guard/Reserve assets into place following a disaster. I challenge you to find a case where it didn’t (9/11 notwithstanding, as the ‘act of war’ nature of the event probably affected the response options. I wasn’t involved, I don’t know).
I worked for the mayor of a city that sits at the head of a bay. The downtown is low lying and was seriously flooded twice in the 20th century.
Oh, really? Then you must be aware of the prepositioned stocks that should always be available at an officially designated emergency shelter. You know, those stocks that were never sent to the Superdome, that kind of thing?
The failures and screwups at the local level do not excuse the lethargy and failure of the feds.
Again, I challenge you: identify a natural disaster where the feds had significant assets on the ground in less than a week. With all your government experience, surely you’re aware that the locals are expected to hold out for at least that long, right?
Even the Fox News folks on the ground don’t buy it.
Oh, that’s funny, now we’re relying on Geraldo for disaster response analysis.
The fact is: Nagin and Blanco asked for help, and they asked well before the storm hit.
And they dragged their feet taking Bush’s advice to evacuate too, didn’t they? And even now they’re fighting FEMA and not relinquishing control of the relief effort, aren’t they? The idiots who made a bad thing worse want to stay in charge so they can… what, make it even more horrible? Once you’re proven an idiot, you need to get out of the way and let the adults get things done.
And let’s despose of Chertoff’s repeated lie that nobody anticipated the failure of the levees. It was well settled that a category 4 or 5 storm would likely flood the bowl of NO.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Don’t conflate topping of the levees with levee failure. And NONE of the studies foresaw 200-300 foot breaches in the levees. Some of the scenarios envisioned breaches (terrorist-caused, mostly), but nothing of this magnitude.
For awhile it appeared that the city doodged the bullet,
…Starting one type of FEMA response…
the[n] the levees failed.
…Throwing the initial response in the shitter.
even though they knew a catastrophic event was coming, no assets were placed in advance to deal with it.
It’s still early days. You sure you want to base your argument on the ‘fact’ that nothing was moved into position? Because I’ll hang you with those words when the truth finally comes out.
Ken,
As just a sample of your incompetence:
Team prepositions Saturday night before Katrina.
I think there has been a little moral and ethical obfuscation about who is responsible for what, and some basic facts.
The President, can order the National Gaurd to do whatever he deems neccesary.
Article 2 Clause 2 USC
“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States”
As you can see, the Commander in Cheif of all armed forces, Federal or not is the POTUS, not the Governor of the State.
As for Whether the President can order an evacuation or take over in a crisis like this I turn your attention to
Article 4 Section USC
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.”
I think most people would aggree that a cat 5 huricane approaching a big fish bowl of a city adn then the ensuing disaster qualifies under this test.
All other things considered, even if the Levy fundign was cut and the Federal Government did not work quickly enough, I would like to point out, that it is not the Federal Government’s role to do make sure the Levies in New Orleans are properly funded, Well Maintained and even sufficient to withstand hurricanes. That is the job of the City of NO and the State of Louisiana. They and they alone share the burden of the faults of this disaster, not the Federal Govenrment. It would be analagous to a child complaining they failed thier math test because thier parent did not make them study hard enough. No the Duty to prepare falls upon the primiary party, not the ancillairy ones.
I think that the voters should toss those dems out.
No, Brian, your readings are pathetically wrong.
“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United Statesâ€Â
As you can see, the Commander in Cheif of all armed forces, Federal or not is the POTUS, not the Governor of the State.”
POTUS is therefore the C-in-C of state militias only when called into service of the U.S.
Now, Bush does have the constitutional and legal authority to “federalize” the LANG. And you can certainly make the case that, as “competent Democrat” is an oxymoron, he should have ignored Blanco and Nagin both, and done so.
Of course, those who make such arguments are then also morally obliged to defend Bush against charges of fascism, racism, sexism, and any otherism in kicking two Democrats (one a woman, the other black) to the side of the road and taking control in NO.
”As for Whether the President can order an evacuation or take over in a crisis like this I turn your attention to
Article 4 Section USC
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.—
Is it your contention, then, that NO was “invaded” by Katrina? That the LA legislature cannot be convened? That Blanco, having determined this to be the case, has applied for assistance to the Federal government against domestic violence?
Or is it your contention that Bush should act <i>in contradiction to this section, and deliberately deny Louisiana a republican form of government by ignoring Blanco’s authority? Again, if so, you will be defending Bush against any attempted impeachment for acting unconstitutionally, yes?
Like I said, a not so subtle shift in the left’s talking points. The same thing is happening in the comments at Junk Yard Blog.
The National Guard and its employment is a hard thing to wrap one’s head around.
There are three ways to use the National Guard operationally: Active Duty of State Work–The State pays the troops and the Commander in Chief is the Governor; Title 32–The fed pays the troops and the Commander in Chief is the Governor; and Title 10–The fed pays the troops and the President is the Commander in Chief.
On Title 10, Posse Comitatus applies and the troops may not be used for domestic law enforcement. That would include suppressing looting.
I’ve seen a shift in the left, too, like…well, I guess there’s blame to share.
Just heard Nagin say that Bush called him into the Air Force One meeting with Blanco and said he gave her two options. Nagin said either one was fine with him. Blanco said she needed 24 hours to think about it. Can’t remember when the Pres was there.
Unbelievable, Patricia.
Beck,
You said, ”
I think you know as well as I do that the Bush hating left and the MSM began this just as soon as the storm subsided. It wasn’t the other way around. Why are you surprised at their ghoulish behavior? Have you already forgotten Paul Wellstone’s funeral? Have you forgotten their cynical exloitation of a mother’s greif outside Crawford? Have you forgotten their picketing military hospitals to tell soldiers that they were “maimed for a lie?”
Furthermore, just from a reptillian political viewpoint, which it seems is all the moonbat left & democrats have left these days. It is to thier advantage to quickly accuse Bush in the shrillest possible terms so as to deflect the blame from where it really belongs, with the democratic governor and the democratic mayor and their utterly corrupt and sclerotic administrations. How clever. Look over here! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
The MSM is deliberately spinning this to cause Bush the greatest damage, secure in the knowledge that a lie repeated often enough will become the truth. They’re counting on their spin to sink into the public’s conciousness as the story. Unfortunately, the MSM is still the largest megaphone out there, by far.
They have ample help from the moonbat left and other useful idiots. When you see comments like this from this Ken guy, who really should go back to playing with Barbie,
.
What’s breathtaking is the complete absence of any humanity from the left and their moral obtuseness. Their utter shamelessness is an accurate reflection of the types of people that they really are. Just look at the troll droppings in Jeff’s comment sections.
As distasteful as it is, the truth must be told. That’s why Jeff and many others are providing a valuable service. Otherwise the lies of the left are the only narrative and thus become the narrative.
Newsday mentioned today (buried deep in belly of story) that one reason why governors resisted and deayed activating their Guard was because they were concerned they would NOT be reimbursed by the feds. So if I have this right, days and lives were lost because of stingy and short-sighted state bureaucrats? But who cares as long as we can blame Bush…am I right?
Darlene: The steamers were great, especially with melted butter.And it was beautiful down at the shore today. And I spell check actual documents, but don’t bother with web site ephemera.
Robin: You were better when you were pitching for Phillies. You have this obsession with human feces that you really should get some help for. And I defy you to show where I make excuses for Nagin and Blanco where I expressly said they were surely open to criticism. I don’t live there. I’m sure there will be plenty of local recriminations against them. They probably have it coming. I can say that because I don’t care two cents about them or their political futures–like, as a citizen, I don’t care about any pol’s crummy career, including Bush.I only care about results.
His manifest incompetence has been on display all his life. Now that the curtain has been decisively torn down all are seeing it. Too bad suckers. You dead enders will all be happy together in the bunker.
Tom K: You’re not going to hang me on anything. I did not conflate levee breah with levee failure, although any judge would give you a very hard time if, given the real life outcome, you tried to make that feeble shyster argument. That’s called a distinction without a difference. Here’s the fact Tom K, the one you and the other bretheren here are trying to furiously, if unsuccessfully, trying to distract us from: A category 4-5 storm was predicted for NO. That meant, if it happened, NO was sure to be catasptrophically flooded. Although the storm subsided and missed a direct hit on NO, the levees failed and NO was flooded. And it is now clear that the feds, despite the high probability that NO would be flooded, Bush, Chertoff and company were completely unprepared. Or do you mean to offer as an excuse that we couldn’t respond because even though NO was, in fact, flooded as expected it wasn’t flooded the way we expected? No rational person blames Bush for the storm, and rational person expected a perfect repsonse, but noone wnats to hear Bush telling “Brownie” what a great job he was doing, or listening the Bush’s lies about no expected it (like I guess, he couldn’t be expected to respond to the 9/11 threat because no one was kind enought to give him the exact date of the attack and the flight numbers) and Chertoff’s lying. And frankly, no one but your dwindling band of brothers really gives a damn or cares about all the bullshit excuses.This is failure to rescue the hostages times about ten thousand. And, by the way Tom, it all seemed to get done very fast in florida last year.
Tom it’s easy to sit on your dry, air conditioned white ass and airily say it’s “early” yet. For what appear to be uncounted thousands of our fellow citizens, who are dead in New Orleans, it is way too late. Frankly, you aren’t worth the trouble, but Bush is going to be hanged by the New Orleans death count, which, of there is a God, will be completed about the time Patrick Fitzgerald indicts that degenerate creep Rove.
Now, as I understand the emerging argument, as faithfully parroted by the brethern here, the problem was that the State of Louisiana did not do the proper paperwork, or that the state and city were somehow messed up in their response and Bush was deferential to ocal authoirty. Assuming, arguendo, that’s all true, my word what a damning indictment, and by Bush and his own cohorts. In other words, there may be a historic catastrophe brewing on the Gulf Coast, but I have to defer to local authority even though I don’t think they are competent. And they didn’t fill out their paperwork right. Mr Can Do is defended as a passive non leader.
This procedural argument is garbage. And its manifestly untrue. Check out the “National Response Plan” promulgated in December 2004. It promises “direct federal action where appropriate.” These arguments also defy plain common sense, but then again that is also a hallmark of Bush and Company.
Thank, Ken, for going on record. Seeing a white male Republican kicking aside two Democrats, one black, the other a woman, to make an illegal grab for power, would surely have raised opinion of him on the Left.
Ken–
Howsabout before you drop in hear with the smug self assurance so typical of know-nothing lefties who feel like having a decent-sized vocabulary is enough to pull them through any argument, and accuse people who’ve been poring through government docs and timelines all day of “parroting” Republican talking points, you actually do a little research. The National Response plan has been investigated and touched upon in the thread that follows this one. And here’s a timeline I’d like you to read before you drop any more of your smarmy, blame-laying shit in my comments.
The deference to local authorities we’re talking about is Constitutional; the rest—as pertains to FEMA and their actions—was already taking place, which you’d know if you spent more time reading and less time pretending you know what others are arguing.
Christ, do I tire of people like you.
Ken, your performance isn’t improving.
So now Ken says Blanco and Nagin are open to criticism, but that’s all George Bush’s fault too. The meme has shifted how many times now? From Bush sent all the guardsmen to Iraq to Bush hates black people to Bush is incompetent to Blanco and Nagin are nothing special but that’s all Bush’s fault too.
I have to offer you some advice, Ken. A bogus story works much better when you pick your most plausible falsehood and stick with it. When you continually swtich you look stupid and dishonest.
Wow, you gotta love Ken’s money quote,
.
Way to establish your leftie ‘street cred’ bro! Growing up as you undoubtedly did on the mean streets of some yuppie suburban hell hole like Maplewood or someplace similar.
What’s next? Maybe a Chomsky quote? Dazzle us.
It would seem Jeff’s right, you people are nothing if not tiresome.
Hey, Tim P, “‘bro”:
For what it’s worth I grew up on the not so mean streets of Pawtucket, Rhode Island, off Armistice Blvd., a couple of blocks from the back of Slater Park. MY folks owned a duplex. He worked for the gas company; she was a hairdresser. I have no idea what or where “Maplewood” is.
That was when JFK, a real president, who didn’t cry and make excuses, was in the White House. I never head of yuppies until 1980 something.
I probably could find some snappy Chomsky quotes. But given the inability to make an argument shown here by you except to second Jeff’s sentiment that we dreary people who aren’t buying the lies are “tiresome” it seems like a waste of effort.
Whoa Corvan!
If you are going to attempt to comment on what I wrote, at least make a small attempt to stick to what I wrote.
I have not written on e word in defense of the mayor or governor. I don’t care about them on e way or another, and I am all for them having their careers terminated if that’s what the record justifies. It might very well do that. I can say that because, unlike you folks, I’m not invested in the career of Bush, because I’m not invested in the career of any crummy pol. I hope some of you are at least on the payroll, because otherwise you are pathetic suckers, the folks who are going to be in the bunker or on the roof after the last chopper has flown out.
I didn’t write anything about Bush hating black people. That’s because I don’t think he hates black people. Ditto, i haven’t written about the National Guard deployments because, although the Louisiana Guard has a significant segment deployed in Iraq, there can be no doubt that a full strength NG would still need signinicant federal reinforcement in the situation that appeared likely on Monday and ended up happening, although not quite the way anticipated. A fact that all you would be shyster lawyers who are obsessing about procedural niceties can’t explain away. Don’t feel bad about that. None of you are good enough. Nobody is good enough.
My criticism has been quite consistent.
Yes, Ken, consistently vapid and without any factual foundation.
As I said, your childish anti-Bush whining is distracting adults. Sit down and shut up.
Kenny, sweetcheeks, glad you had a nice afternoon but you didn’t answer my question. How come Nagin was screaming on the radio for 500 buses when he left over 200 of his own parked and 16,000 people stranded?
And what is it about California, you know, earthquake country? That I’ve been raised to understand that in this place where The Big One can hit any minute, that it is up to each individual to make sure they can get along for <b>three to five days</i> MINIMAL? F*ck, earthquakes have no warning system, so what makes LA and New Orleans so special that when they YEARLY at are risk they can’t even stock their evacuation centers?
See,there’s the problem with your snide, smarmy, projectionist critique, Ken: nobody is trying to “explain away” anything. Instead, they are trying to understand precisely what happened, when it happened, why it happened, and how it happened—and from there, put all the events in the proper context and perspective.
Whereas your sole purpose here has been to “explain away” all of our investigations so you can protect your predetermined narrative about Bush’s personal failures as a President—even as you lecture people on parroting partisan talking points, and claim that we’re the one’s invested in a particular pol. It’s stunning, really—how defensive and insecure you are beneath that careful veneer of smug self-assurance…
WHY ARE YOU SO FRIGHTENED, KEN? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU FEAR?
You want to know what happened with the National Guard reinforcements? Blanco didn’t okay them until Wednesday. Go read the press briefing I posted.
But knock off the finger pointing and the flaccid attempts to ironize yourself out of a pathetic rhetorical spot.
Hell, I’m embarrassed for you, and I don’t even much like you…
Your criticism has only be consistent in that you will twist any fact and make any argument, no matter how nonsensical, to get George Bush. Listen I’m not a Republican. I don’t much like being put in the posisiton of having to defend him. But you’re entire argument has been so dishonest from the start that you’ve put me in that position.
And simply not caring about Blanco and Nagin is proof that you have no interest in the actual facts of the matter at all. You decided that this was your excuse to get a man you hate. Everything else be damned. Which explains why you said several posts ago that Nagin and Blanco had requested help and “that was the bottom line…” but then turned about in this last post and said you were perfectly happy to see thier careers ended. You’ve gone from saying they had done all they needed to do to saying you would happily toss them under the bus, so long as that allows you to get the man you hate most in the world. Ken, that’s not a position it’s a pathology.
And your claims of phony photo-ops are like wise just bogus. On a more hopeful I’m glad to hear that you don’t think George Bush hates black people. Does that mean you will be rushing an email of protest of to Jesse Jackson? I realize he isn’t a Bush dead ender but his comments have been a tad over the top. If you are the reasonable face of the left, the left is in deep trouble.
Jeff:
Nice to see that unlike our feces obsessed former pitcher for the Phillies, you appreciate the advantages of a good vocabulary. That and legal training gives the ability to smoke out rank bullshit and parry it.
Too bad if you find me “smug”. I’m not really. Really do wish Bush had been up to the job. I would have liked to see New Orleans once, but it looks like I never will now.
Hey, you opened up the comments section. I give you credit. You’ve got more moxie than those “Power Line” pussies. But I keep my comments to the facts and I make an effort to engage the arguments, to the extent there is one.
The attempt by you to create a bogus alternate universe argument is, frankly insulting. Power grab indeed! If Bush had gone on TV and radio and announced a massive federal rescue effort and then made it his personal business to get it done, a lot fewer people may have died. Law and order would might have been reestablished sooner. Refugees would have processed and fed and triage may have gotten the really ill out. Had he pulled off a semblance of that possible performance he’d be a freakin hero today and you might be gloating about it.
Instead, he chose to bop off to yet another WWII commemoration! (Enough already. I figured out we had won that one around 1961) /And he strums his guitar. Fair enough. He screwed around and screwed up and too bad for him.
Since you are fond of having imaginary conversations with your pants, I will engage in a similar exercise. I will assume that through the magic of a time machine, it is about 10 AM, EST, (5AM Honolulu time) in Washington, DC on Sunday, December 7, 1941. George Bush has been sent back in time, and is assuming the appearance of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. It will also assume that contrary to the actual history, which was that Hawaii was a territory, that it was a full fledged state. (Quantum Leap!!!)
The Oval Office. PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT sits alone reading a document. GENERAL GEORGE MARSHALL enters.
MARSHALL: Mr. President?
FDR: Yes.
MARSHALL: We have urgent news. This is solid, from a spy in the Jap embassy. The Japanese have launched an attack on Pearl Harbor and will arrive in two hours.
FDR: Pearl Harbor? That’s in Hawaii right?
MARSHALL: Yes, Mr. President.
FDR: I got absolutely stinking, puking drunk one night in Honolulu!
MARSHALL: Very good Mr. President. But I need orders. We all need orders.
FDR: What does the Governor say?
MARSHALL: He doesn’t know about it.
FDR: Well General, you know I can’t intervene in such a situation until the governor requests it. We must work through channels. I don’t want to be accused of a power grab–you know those Republicans.
MARSHALL: There isn’t time. This is hitting us in less than two hours.
FDR. No. We must follow procedure. You know the Republican main stream media will emand my impeachment if I overreach my legal authority.
MARSHALL EXITS.
Cheap slander Ken. That’s all you’ve got left in your diaper.
Ken, are you really so completely ignorant that you don’t know the difference between a war and a natural disaster?
Are you so completely ignorant that you don’t understand the Constitution? That you don’t understand the legal foundation of our very nation?
Evidently the answer is yes. You are that ignorant.
Oh and while you were making up absolute bullshit about how convinced you were that Bush is a poor leader, you seem to have missed that Nagin’s leadership resulted in two-thirds of the New Orleans police deserting. That’s a failure of leadership, you moron.
Ken, your psychosis is showing.
Darleen wrote:
I’m guessing he’s expecting all the icky people who support the President to shut up and bow their heads in penance.
Convan:
And yours isn’t?
Robin:
You’ve really got to get over this shit obsession?
And what cheap slander? I was merely following the lead of Jeff, who, as a writer of “fiction” likes to have imaginary conversations with his pants.
Hey, at least I post over my own name and don’t hide behind that of a great National League pitcher of a half century ago. Maybe I’ll start calling myself “Yaz”…
My own name?
It turns out I was wrong, Ken. You are even stupider than I guessed.
Jeff:
Needless to say. I’m not freightened of you, you writer of fiction. I give your legal opinions the deference that the legal opinions of a writer of fiction are due. That is to say: nothing. Unless you are a member of the bar in your state, in which case I will reconsider.
Don’t kid yourself that you are investigating anything here. You are an advocate, a pretty uninformed one, and won’t admit it. When I enter on a case I’m telling the world who I represent. I post here as a citizen who represents myself. Only in the up is down world of the Bush dead enders is a refusal to defend local and state government in Louisiana taken as a sign I can’t criticize Bush.You don’t have the skill to marshall your facts and make an argument, so you refer me to other threads and other peoples’ arguments.Pretty lame.
Big picture folks: NO flooded. Thousands dead. Federal response unacceptably slow. President unacceptably disconnected. People notice. People are pissed.
Back when I was studying for the bar exam the best advice they gave us in answering the multi state section, which featured some very outlandish scenarios, was “DON’T FIGHT THE FACTS”.
You are all fighting the facts. You are flunking. as is Bush. It will be interesting to see if he gets to finish his term.
Ken,
Have you read anything you wrote? You’ve gone from saying Nagin and Blanco did all they can do to saying you would happily end their careers. Then you’ve gone from saying that Bush was an unprepared incompetent to saying that Bush should have ignored the constitution and taken control of a state that was not in rebellion.
I apologize for implying you were psychotic. I shouldn’t have done that. Still, you’re thinking on this situation is amazingly malleable, so long as you can get George Bush. And frankly the more you twist yourself into pretzels the less I’m inclined to listen to you. Can you give me one reason that doesn’t involve a personal insult that George Bush should be exclusively responsible for every bad thing that has happened in New Orleans since the Hurricane hit shore? I’m willing to listen.
Robin:
What a wit!! Too bad you’ve lost a couple of yards off your fastball. You’ll never last throwing that junk.
cause roberts is such an uncommon last name? i’m not understanding your obsession with the name.
Ken, studying for the bar exam? ROFL. That’s hilarious. You’ve abandoned the facts long ago. You are just pounding the lecturn.
Maggie, Ken thinks I’m using a pseudonym. Its a false claim that he’s made up from whole cloth like the rest of his bullshit.
i know that’s what he’s doing, just not sure why he seems so focused on it, or what his reasoning behind it might be. now, my name? totally made up.
Maggie,
Obviously we are all just sock puppets of Karl Rove. Delusions like Ken’s insulate the mind from uncomfortable reality.
Really Ken, I meant it. I shouldn’t have implied that you were psychotic. And I am listening. Why is George Bush exclusviely to blame for everything bad that has happened in Louisiana? And if he’s not exclusively to blame who else is responsible? And what is so wrong with trying to figure out what happened in the relief effort and exactly what every one’s responsibilites were?
Oh no… if we ignore the infinite wisdom of Ken he’ll call us dead enders… again!
Odd, from checking with people I know in the military and such, the response appears to be going as fast as it can. Little things like building up supplies, getting the trucks in place, clearing the roads fubared by a hurricane blowing through it, additional preparations because armed thugs are shooting at recue workers, etc. All seem to point to your charges of “slow” response as nothing more than falsities spread hoping those ignorant of the facts won’t bother to look things up.
Also the fact you keep ignoring is that the local and state authorities are the ones responsible for the initial reaction to the disaster. The “little things” I mentioned above are part of why that is the fact. Obviously, something went wrong. Judging from the way the NO mayor and the governor are loudly screeching accusations, I have a feeling the something that went wrong wasn’t due to Murphy’s Law or similar.
Except for the levy breaking, of course. Nice of you to try to use the predictions of the levies crumbling under the storm surge as “proof” that Bush was wrong when he said no one predicted them breaking. Except what happened is that it looked like New Orleans had evaded that fate and then the levy broke for reasons currently unknown. Was there a scenario where the city gets brushed by a Cat-4/nearly Cat-5, doesn’t get drowned in the surge, storm goes off to smash other areas and people go ‘phew! glad the worst is over!’ and then the levy breaks, proving you should never tempt Fate by thinking the worst is over? The ones I read were pretty much “storm smashes in, crumbles levies, all drown in the storm surge” types of scenarios.
Quick: throw the dead ender claim at how you have all the facts and no one sees your infinite wisdom and again include pompous predictions of Bush’s imminent DOOOOM! I keep hearing Invader Zim’s voice speaking your words when you do that. Go on, say we’ll rue the day and we should start rueing while you sit and watch.
Might be like all the other predictions that Bush is DOOOOOMED… and somehow fails to DOOOOM him. But who knows? Maybe after the umpteenth accusation this one will stick. Or maybe people will just get tired of it all and tune out your whining.
With respect to the meaning of the comments about being surprised, I agree with your interpretation Patrick. I made a similar comment on another thread.
You see, it’s funny because there was a pitcher in the 50’s (mostly, he hung around for a long time)who had the same name. That’s why it’s funny. Like how that guy in Office Space was named Michael Bolton? It just keeps getting funnier, every time he says it.
Guys, you’re missing the point – Ken has moved on from trying (and failing) to argue a misconceived point. He now wants to prove to any and all that he is not “freightened” of Jeff.
Meaning, I suppose, that he is bold and/or somehow connected with Amtrak.
Turing word “Met” – we have met the enemy, and he knows not of the “spell-check.”
Ooo…Kenny posts under his OWN NAME… (first one only and such a unique one, eh?) Where’s your bona fides, Kenny? Outside of a certain patter reminiscent of Professor Irwin Corey, all his posts are like marshmellow fluff with one nasty surprise in the middle.
It is always Bush’s fault. No matter what.
Ooo…Bush was meeting with some soldiers the other day when people were suffering in NO Guess what, Kenny? I bet Bush kissed Laura yesterday, too! How dare he! I mean with so many people in NO not being able to kiss their spouses. Unless he separates from Laura and engages in public self-flagellation, stripped to the waist in front of Dan Rather, Jesse Jackson and Ted Kennedy, on CBS during prime time…well then, he’s no FDR handling Pearl Harbor!!!
Kenny…focus now. What about Nagin’s buses?
Robin Roberts: But you don’t agree that Ken sounds like Invader Zim on a gloatfest?
8-) ROFL, Patrick.
Ken. Another totally miseducated lawyer.
TW: Better…get a bucket. I’m gonna throw up.
…on a more serious note, I do recall that there are more than a few amongst the Left and such that think President Bush is a dictator, not “like” a dictator, an actual dictator.
Perhaps they’re confused that he’s actually obeying the law instead of acting like a Maximum Leader-type and using his iron fist to get things done? (“YOU! OBEY the FIST!”) Ahem. Or similar remarks.
Dig extremely the idea of Ken as Invader Zim (although I see him more as that ersatz alien in Plan Nine From Outer Space screaming “That’s the trouble with you humans! You’re stupid! Stupid!”):
but can someone explain to me how exactly “writer of fiction” is supposed to be the big insult that Kenny believes it to be? Although that would require, mentally at least, entering Ken-world for a moment.
*shudder*
patricia, when/where did you hear the Mayor Nagin statement about the AF1 meeting? My guess is that the mayor is smart enough to read the handwriting on the wall re Gov. Blanco. Now if he is really smart he will fire his OEM guy (Ebbert or whatever?) who was one of the first to start the political screaming. Then the mayor will apologize for his ranting as a primal scream sort of thing based on having to listen to the reports about his police dept failing etc. I’m pretty sure he can take Mary Landrieu. We’ll see how smart he is.
And Pres. Bush should hire Tommy Franks to act as co-director of FEMA. It saves his having to fire Brown and acknowledges the changing mission of FEMA to handle humanitarian and security situations. It really is too big a job for one guy.
It would also be very interesting to see a meeting of governors of all 50 states and mayors of the largest cities to iron out whether/when the govs and mayors would want the feds to just sweep in and take over. My guess would be in very few, if any, situations that aren’t acts of war. But it seems a conversation worth having and might get citizens thinking about whether they really want to see Delta Force landing hot in their neighborhoods. I think I’d take a pass myself. But I have lots of bottled water and some weapons to hopefully hold the fort for a few days
oh, and I heard the CNN radio news chick say there was a new “irony” in NO–the crash of the Coast Guard helo. I guarantee those guys didn’t find the situation “ironic.” I’m just very glad they got out OK.
and darleen, to be fair, many of the bus drivers had probably already evaced by the time the evac became mandatory. and if I got the call to drive around to pick up hardened criminals to take them for a long drive, destination unknown for my 8 bucks an hour, I’d probably come down with instantaneous typhoid. why/how they found drivers willing to risk their lives to cart those folks to the superdome, and therefore miss the chance to get out of there themselves I don’t know