MSNBC’s Bloggermann:
Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said it all, starting his news briefing Saturday afternoon: “Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater…”
Well there’s your problem right there.
If ever a slip-of-the-tongue defined a government’s response to a crisis, this was it.
Translated Keith: Who cares what he does. It’s what he says that I find troublesome. I mean, clearly he’s not a polished public speaker, and he doesn’t have that resonant teevee voice like me or Shep Smith, so how can we take him seriously—particularly when he doesn’t even know that Louisiana is a State!
The seeming definition of our time and our leaders had been their insistence on slashing federal budgets for projects that might’ve saved New Orleans. The seeming characterization of our government that it was on vacation when the city was lost, and could barely tear itself away from commemorating V.J. Day and watching Monty Python’s Flying Circus, to at least pretend to get back to work. The seeming identification of these hapless bureaucrats: their pathetic use of the future tense in terms of relief they could’ve brought last Monday and Tuesday  like the President, whose statements have looked like they’re being transmitted to us by some kind of four-day tape-delay.
Translated Keith: Insert boilerplate about ‘slashing federal budgets,’ without drawing the necessary causal connection money allocated (or tax rates raised) and efficacy of planning. Ignore the fact that said “slashing” is largely about excising redundant funding and programs, because to ignore that allows me to intimate that said cuts are removing needed resources rather than removing government waste, or layers of bureaucracy that slow down the very things I’m now demanding be speeded up.
Oh. And ignore the recently completed upgrades to the levee system.
From there, insert an easy line about the Presidential “vacation,” which suggests Commander in Chief Chimpy was unreachable while in Crawford and, while he might have heard about the Hurricane, he wasn’t really following the story very closely. Not when there’s badminton in the back yard!
And finally, return to that criticism about how things were said. Because how things were phrased is far more important than what’s actually being done.
Christ, how I long for Clinton! I mean, Jesus, Shrub—this is a teevee nation! Image is everything!
But no. The incompetence and the ludicrous prioritization will forever be symbolized by one gaffe by of the head of what is ironically called “The Department of Homeland Securityâ€Â: “Louisiana is a city…â€Â
Shorter Keith: At least, if I have any say in the matter it will…
Politician after politician  Republican and Democrat alike  has paraded before us, unwilling or unable to shut off the “I-Me” switch in their heads, condescendingly telling us about how moved they were or how devastated they were  congenitally incapable of telling the difference between the destruction of a city and the opening of a supermarket.
Shorter Keith: You do know I’m just including Democrats so I’m not accused of partisanship, right?—and that I really mean the Neocon theocrats?
Cool, just checking.
…Say, think I fooled the Neocon theocrats reading this…?
And as that sorry recital of self-absorption dragged on, I have resisted editorial comment. The focus needed to be on the efforts to save the stranded  even the internet’s meager powers were correctly devoted to telling the stories of the twin disasters, natural… and government-made.
Translated Keith: Thanks for holding down the fort, Kossacks! Now stand back and let teevee boy have a swing at the wingnut fuckwits!
But now, at least, it is has stopped getting exponentially worse in Mississippi and Alabama and New Orleans and Louisiana (the state, not the city).
…From way down town: BANG!
And, having given our leaders what we know now is the week or so they need to get their act together, that period of editorial silence I mentioned, should come to an end.
Shorter Keith: I know, I know. I’m begging the question insofar as I’m assuming their act wasn’t together to begin with, and that—in the face of such a fact—I was derelict for not speaking out earlier. But as I say, I’ve got a teevee gig. And unfortunately, such job come with certain expectations, among which is the mandate to at least try keeping up the facade of objectivity.
Stupid, I know. Until you see the paycheck. BANG!
No one is suggesting that mayors or governors in the afflicted areas, nor the federal government, should be able to stop hurricanes. Lord knows, no one is suggesting that we should ever prioritize levee improvement for a below-sea-level city, ahead of $454 million worth of trophy bridges for the politicians of Alaska.
Translated Keith: See what I did there? That’s called irony, baby! Stand back. The Keithmeister is about to bring it on!
Although I do ask that you not interrupt me with questions about who exactly the “we” is, what exactly it takes to build a levee sytem capable of handling a category 4/5 hurricane to block the storm surge.
Shit like that ruins my flow.
But, nationally, these are leaders who won re-election last year largely by portraying their opponents as incapable of keeping the country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressure the news media in this country to report the reopening of a school or a power station in Iraq, and defies its citizens not to stand up and cheer. Yet they couldn’t even keep one school or power station from being devastated by infrastructure collapse in New Orleans  even though the government had heard all the “chatter” from the scientists and city planners and hurricane centers and some group whose purposes the government couldn’t quite discern… a group called The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
Translated Keith: This Administration can open schools in Iraq, sure. But can they stop a Category 4/5 hurricane from overshooting the levees and then breeching them from the inside? And by “they,” I mean the Bushies. The previous centuries that New Orleans had to rebuild the levee system?—Water under the bridge, so to speak. The responsibilities of the local government? Come now. If we could a trust the local government with running shit, there’d be no Democrats.
Incidentally, did you like how I slid “chatter” in there? Reminds you of “connecting dots,” don’t it? And that, in turn, should remind you how the Bushies knew about 911 and didn’t stop that, either.
That’s good shit, man. Which, if you don’t mind my saying, is why they pay me the big bucks…
And most chillingly of all, this is the Law and Order and Terror government. It promised protection  or at least amelioration  against all threats: conventional, radiological, or biological.
It has just proved that it cannot save its citizens from a biological weapon called standing water.
Translated Keith: Notice what I’ve done here—conflating a natural phenomenom against which there is no prevention (after all, if Karl Rove could control hurricanes, he’d direct them to wipe out the Kennedy compound and much of the Northeast, I’ll wager) with a terrorist attack against which there might be.
Similarly, I’ve conflated “protection” with “nobody ever dies,” because what we’re entitled to expect from the federal government is, of course, cradle to grave “protection” against anything and everything—including natural disasters. This, even when we stay behind in the path of a Category 4/5 Hurricane, even when our Governor doesn’t heed to warning of that same federal government and call for a mandatory evacuation, even if when our Mayor tells us we might potentially have to fend for ourselves come evacuation time.
One death is a failure. And the blame for that failure rests squarely with the federal government. Why? Well, because it was stupid enough to rely on the competency of a State governments. Which, c’mon: State governments are for running the Lotto.
Mr. Bush has now twice insisted that, “we are not satisfied,” with the response to the manifold tragedies along the Gulf Coast. I wonder which “we” he thinks he’s speaking for on this point. Perhaps it’s the administration, although we still don’t know where some of them are. Anybody seen the Vice President lately? The man whose message this time last year was, ‘I’ll Protect You, The Other Guy Will Let You Die’?
Shorter Keith: What makes more sense than sending a man with a heart condition down to New Orleans to bail water out of the French Quarter?
I mean, Sean Penn’s there. And image, as we know, is everything…
I don’t know which ‘we’ Mr. Bush meant.
Translation: Yes I do. But you have to admit is sounds edgier this way.
For many of this country’s citizens, the mantra has been  as we were taught in Social Studies it should always be  whether or not I voted for this President  he is still my President. I suspect anybody who had to give him that benefit of the doubt stopped doing so last week. I suspect a lot of his supporters, looking ahead to ‘08, are wondering how they can distance themselves from the two words which will define his government  our government  “New Orleans.”
Shorter Keith: And by “suspect,” I of course mean something more along the lines of ”hope and pray, for the love of all that is fucking holy!”
Which is why I’m doing my part in proclaiming the federal response a failure, ignoring the failures in the local response and on the part of individuals who stayed behind, and doing so without citing a single applicable fact.
Indeed, my entire column has been one long assertion that begs the question: a smug rant that proceeds from the conclusion, made in advance, that the feds failed (I know they did, because I saw bodies floating on my teevee, and the Feds didn’t stop it—regardless of whether or not FEMA followed the plan exactly as they were supposed to and began launching rescue efforts as early as Monday and Tuesday, despite the city’s being underwater and impassable, and communications wiped out. Screw all that. I saw bodies and standing water! Image is everything!)
For him, it is a shame  in all senses of the word. A few changes of pronouns in there, and he might not have looked so much like a 21st Century Marie Antoinette. All that was needed was just a quick “I’m not satisfied with my government’s response.” Instead of hiding behind phrases like “no one could have foreseen,” had he only remembered Winston Churchill’s quote from the 1930’s. “The responsibility,” of government, Churchill told the British Parliament “for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence.”
Translation: Again, for this bit of assertion to work, I ask you to ignore the fact that federal government, you know, actually did provide what history will show is unprecendented assistance and overcame unprecented challenges to do so—and concentrate instead on who cried. Blanco did. Bush didn’t. Advantage: Blanco.
Oh, and did you hear Nagin cursing up a storm—begging for the feds to get off their asses and bring help?
Man, that was so real.
Whereas Bush? Fuck man. Grace under pressure went out with zoot suits. Boomers are supposed to bite their lips and FEEL MY FUCKING PAIN.
In forgetting that, the current administration did not merely damage itself  it damaged our confidence in our ability to rely on whoever is in the White House.
Shorter Keith: And by “we,” I mean those of us who hated this White House to begin with and, had the President preemptively taken control of the State from Blanco and saved every single life of every single person the Mayor and Governor left unevacuated, would be calling for him impeachment—because sure, life is important. That we acknowledge, But the Constitution simply must be protected!
As we emphasized to you here all last week, the realities of the region are such that New Orleans is going to be largely uninhabitable for a lot longer than anybody is yet willing to recognize. Lord knows when the last body will be found, or the last artifact of the levee break, dug up. Could be next March. Could be 2100. By then, in the muck and toxic mire of New Orleans, they may even find our government’s credibility.
Somewhere, in the City of Louisiana.
Shorter Keith: God, how I fucking hate Chimpy McHitlerburtonkatrinabotcher…
****
(h/t Crooks and Liars)
So much for the “Peace of Landru”, I suppose… (geek alert!)
WaPo:
Nevertheless, Sen. Mary Landrieu, who seems to think she’s cute when she’s mad, even threatened on national television to punch out the president—a felony, by the way, even as a threat. Mayor Nagin, who you might think would be looking for a place to hide, and Gov. Blanco, nursing a bigtime snit, can’t find the right word of thanks to a nation pouring out its heart and emptying its pockets. Maybe the senator should consider punching out the governor, only a misdemeanor.
Link
Lordy Jeff, all of that’s giving me a headache! In summary, Keith Olbermann’s dumber than Katie Couric—and Katie’s dumber than a box of rocks wearing a blonde wig.
TW = cold. As in I know that’s cold, but it’s da truth.
Keith don’t look now, but here comes the Pulitzer
The raw emotion of KO’s diatribe gives me the goose bumps……
Two things:
1) Am I crazy, or does the government’s fiscal year 2006 start on October 1, 2005? Of course, perhaps I’m only having trouble believing the 2006-budget-cuts-caused-levee-breakdown theory because I listen to GOP mouthpieces such as NPR.
2) I’m amazed that Olbermann had the balls to refer to someone else’s need to “shut off the ‘I-Me’ switch in their heads, when chances were 50/50 he was going to include in this article an anecdote regarding a drunken evening he spent with a crusty-and-grizzled-but-wise weatherman during his days as a student reporter at Cornell, punctuated by a retelling of his harrowing encounter with the use of Skoal Bandits®.
Yes, I could practically feel his spittle through my computer screen.
’Incredibly without those budget cuts the work to fix the levees would have travelled back in time to prevent Katrina related damage.’
do I get the job?
The nice thing about being a “newsanchor” on a channel that nobody watches, is you can basically just make shit up all day long and nobody will give a damn.
Its not like we expect journalism or a lack of partisanship from Oberman- of all the “newsanchors”, he is the most consistently wrong and the least embarassed about being wrong. Clearly, he has a long career ahead of him with CBS, should he choose to pursue it.
Ah, if only all Americans could see this translation.
What a wonderful world it would be.
You mean Louisiana is a state?
boatanchor: the densest part of the boat.
The sad thing is, Olberman isn’t the exception. He’s the rule. They’ve all gone completely mad all across the spectrum. Look over at Jeff Jarvis’s site.
I like Jarvis, but he’s cashed in his chips and abandoned all thought. Every word he writes reads like something out of a really bad sixties movie. “Truth to power, man.” If any of you get a weekly news magazine, look at that. You won’t find one nod to any of requirements of a huge logistical operation. Nor will you find any exploration of the role of federalism in the response to any disaster.
I wish I could say that their reaction is a result of a traumatic experience or even the result of concern for their fellow man. Hell, I would even be satisfied if they all just hated George Bush. That’s easy to understand. But frankly I fear it is not any of those things. It’s something stranger still.
What we’re seeing here is the journalist class once again nominating, and confirming itself for saint hood. Hoping desperately for a return to the seventies when they were the most powerful force in the country. All of this is simply a trip back to the future.
Unfortunately, the media does not realize that in an internet driven, media savvy age alot of people understand what they’re doing, and find it distasteful. But they will, and their reaction will be fun to watch when they do.
Ayep. Of confusion!!!
ZING!
Also, Keith Olbermann is a week-old turd sandwich, with half the sense and good taste.
Excellent fisk, Jeff, but Keith who?
Fuck all of ‘em. I have one of those really painful splitting cuticle thingy’s and I haven’t gotten a goddamn thing.
WHERE’S THE HUMANITY?!?!?!?!?
TW – “Married”
Great, the next turing word is going to ask for my SSN.
Fukkin excellent. As usual.
hey, if we’re gonna point out news people slip ups. anyone keep track of how many times geraldo said los angeles? (actually, i can understand the confusion, you keep seeing LA in big letters, it’s hard to recondition the brain)
Interesting perspective from The Daily Howler (I’m not being sarcastic, read through to the end).
Jeff,
14 or 15 replies here, meaning your fisking has trebled (at least) Olbermann’s “readership.”
Shame on you.
Cordially…
You might want to “weigh down” your anchor here:
[fixed, thanks! -ed]
Keith should back to ESPN and we would all be the better for it.
This being said, I still think that this has been a failure at more than just the local and state level.
Yes, Blanco and Nagin should have ordered the evacuation on Friday, or Saturday at the latest. The NWS and NHC both were screaming bloody murder that this should be done. No one took them seriously enough until it was too late to get a serious evacuation done. I spoke with a friend of mine Sunday who left NO on the Sunday before the storm and she said she was lucky to get out at all because of the size of the evacuation. There is no question that they waited too long. Yes, I know about the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool. Yes, he should have used these busses to remove people from the city. I agree with this criticism.
Still, I am not going to buy that with a $6 billion budget FEMA is incapable of organizing a mass evacuation after the city started flooding. It was common knowledge that the Superdome and the Convention Center were not sufficient long term shelters. A organization such as FEMA should have had some plan ready to go that would have picked up the slack when the state levels failed. I said in the earlier thread, if a dirty bomb goes off in Chicago which contaminates the transportation city wide, and cripples the states ability to respond, isn’t that what FEMA is there for? To provide EMERGENCY assistance?
Never mind the repeated accusations that the bureaucratic red tape from FEMA is hampering aid projects, I don’t agree that FEMA is incapable of organizing a mass evacuation. And if they are, they shouldn’t be.
The only federal agency that has shown to be effective during this emergency is the Department of Defense. When the Gaurd and the Army hit the ground, shit got done, period. Why this isn’t the mindset of FEMA is an indication of the problem.
Again, for the first post 9/11 test of the new FEMA/Homeland Security blanket, I give it a big fat F. And I truly hope that lessons are learned here and corrections made, because the response from everyone minus the DOD has been pathetic at best.
tman, i think you need to allow for some time to assess the situation. as gen blum mentioned, it would have done no good to rush in and become casualties themselves. yes, once the military got there they got things done, but they also had a very good idea about what they would be facing, and that didn’t happen overnight.
Not to mention that the security situation had deteriorated to such a degree—and the infrastructure decimated to such a degree—that mass evacuations were impossible. Remember, a rescue chopper was fired upon at the Superdome.
Maggie,
FEMA failed. And continues to fail.
Hattiesburg American: Why did it take six days for representatives from the Federal Emergency Management Agency to arrive in Hattiesburg? Then – if you can believe this – when they finally got here Saturday, their first question to local officials gathered at the Forrest County Emergency Operations Center was: Do you need help?
This part is head scratchingly mindblowing-
FEMA representatives did say the agency plans to post fliers informing storm victims to call 1-800-621-FEMA or to go online at http://www.fema.gov to obtain disaster relief information.
A telephone number?
A Web address?
Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, who told reporters his city had offered emergency, medical and technical help as early as last Sunday to FEMA but was turned down. Only a single tank truck was requested, Daley said. Red tape kept the American Ambulance Association from sending 300 emergency vehicles from Florida to the flood zone, according to former senator John Breaux (D-La.) They were told to get permission from the General Services Administration. “GSA said they had to have FEMA ask for it,” Breaux told CNN. “As a result they weren’t sent.”
They failed and they lied about it.
Can you honestly say that we are getting our taxdollars worth at $6 billion a year?
Look, I’m conservative minded, and don’t want to see the country lean towards depending on the government whenever I need to blow my nose, but this is different. This is too far in the direction of incompetence and wasteful bureaucracy.
Tman:
The DoD has actual assets and consists of not only of bureaucrats but people who actually have skills. They have to be able anticipate the “Fog of War” and modify plans accordingly. FEMA is a bureaucracy assigned to match agencies with needs. They probably do fine when everything follows a script but are ill-prepared for the unexpected events – an entirely incompetent city and state government, a demoralized police force – that occurred here.
Any word on the ‘dillo? I know he’s tough, but I doubt the shell is bulletproof. And can be float on his back or can we expect a schoolbus to be hotwired?
Jeff, Peter, Maggie,
I don’t understand how we can make excuses for FEMA. This is their job. To manage situations during emergencies. If the breakdown of infrastructure hadn’t occured then FEMA wouldn’t be needed for much more than writing checks in the next few months.
They failed at their core task. From their own website-
The Federal Emergency Management Agency – a former independent agency that became part of the new Department of Homeland Security in March 2003 – is tasked with responding to, planning for, recovering from and mitigating against disasters.
You can honestly say that they did this?
Yes. The difference being, I don’t expect them to work miracles.
Apparantly it was not common knowledge to the man that was in charge of security there.
Perhaps FEMA was getting this same kind of information from the “people on the ground.”
That is a nice opinion. What it is, is just an opinion. I ask again, what did FEMA do that it should not have done, or what did it not do that it should have done?
You tell us how FEMA should have been able to evacuate NOLA. Should they have had “on hand” a 1,000 small watercraft? Stored where? After the first reports on Monday PM, when debris was the problem, should they have staged the boats first? Or the bulldozers and heavy equipment?
C’mon Tman, since you were on the ground and privvy to all the info that FEMA had and were in on making all of the changes in plans the levee breach necessitated, you can tell us how YOU would have handled it.
Obviously you are WAAAAY smarter than everyone else that was involved. You were the one that knew where the watercraft were; you were the one that was getting “all of the correct, up to date info from on site”, just like Col. Schnieder. C’mon, inquiring minds want to know.
You bloviating,pompous, know it all idiot!
Jeff,
Obtaining busses to get people out of NO wouldn’t qualify as a miracle.
A logistical nightmare? Maybe. A miracle? I don’t believe so. But again, why was this not planned for?
tman, what roads were there for buses to use? it’s been my understanding that this was also the main reason for delay of supplies into the region afterwards.
You know, having ravenously blog-read this all weekend, I’m thinking Hugh Hewitt was right all along.
The Administration has nothing to fear from any investigation of the facts, but that will not happen until this question moves out of the fantasy realm of the LeftMedia and into the real world of subpoenas and sworn testimony.
Just as there was only One Truth about Clinton’s crimes until grand jury testimony exposed the tissue of lies, there will be a day when the truth about Katrina and its aftermath will be documented and no longer a matter for conjecture by media bobble-heads. And the sooner, the better.
It will turn out that Uncle Sam’s response was not perfect (and could never have been under the circumstances) but still a remarkable achievement and generally accomplished 110% of what they were supposed to do.
It will also turn out that the state of LA simply dropped the ball or was overwhelmed, and then refused to let the Feds take over. Because Blanco et al. were afraid they’d get “blamed for everything”.
So maybe the correct response to this is to let the LeftMedia and the usual suspects dig themselves a deeper hole. Just smile your most cheerful smile and say “I look forward to the investigation.”
rls,
With all due respect to Lt. Col Schneider, it was accepted that the Superdome was not an adequate long term shelter. NO learned seven years ago, when Hurricane Georges threatened, that the Dome isn’t suitable as a long-term shelter. So what did state and national officials think would happen to tens of thousands of people trapped inside with no air conditioning, overflowing toilets and dwindling amounts of food, water and other essentials?
Transported people out of the city earlier. Put more resources in to shoring up the broken levees. Not taken six days to get to places like Hattiesburg, and then showing up with three forms to fill out and more red tape to spread around. Not ignored the NHC and NWS that this was a bigger hurricane than any they had seen in a decade. Not lie about the conditions on the ground to the press.
The list is long. I don’t claim to be a disaster expert, but it shouldn’t be this easy for me to see so many inadequacies in the federal response, aside from the DOD.
And please, if you disagree with me, save the insults, it just degrades your argument.
So much for the “Peace of Landruâ€Â, I suppose… (geek alert!)
CHICKEN-ARCHON!
The locals are charged with the buses and transport. FEMA can’t anticipate the Mayor is going to leave them to drown. But even so, obtaining buses from elsewhere and getting them into New Orleans takes time and an infrastructure that supports their transport. Didn’t exist, particularly while the water was still rising.
Similarly, the President pushed for mandatory evac. He didn’t get it. The numbers who stayed behind, thanks to the locals’ inabilities to provide evacuation transportation, exceeded most estimates. FEMA is there to augment the local effort. When the local effort completely brokedown, they had to reassess, even while rescue missions were ongoing.
You admit it’s a logistical nightmare. And yet you expect that it happen overnight from a city underwater, it’s roads gone, and its communications out.
That’s the miracle you are asking for. Speed.
I simply don’t think you understand the severity of the logistical challenges.
Tman,
These people weren’t going to leave no matter hwo many buses you parked in front of them. They had ridden out storms before and they were going to do it this time.
I think you will be surprised by the number of people who had cars who stayed.
Plus, everyone seems shocked that our govt can’t twitch it’s nose and airlift everyone out in a matter of moments.
This is the govt. here. We can HOPE they will come and help us in the aftermath. And they did, but we should NEVER depend on them.
Lesson here…Be prepared.
So if this was really a miracle, does that make Jabbar Gibson, like, Jesus or something?
Man, where was Keith when Amtrack was naming one of it’s trains the ‘City of New Orleans’ and a folk singer was writing a song about it. I mean, it’s a train for christ’s sake. I also understand that the train itself is white (with some red and blue thrown in), while the city is 62% black. I just don’t understand some people. Personally, I blame Bush.
I suppose it matters not that HE is the man in charge, on the ground, communicating to others. If I’m running the show and he tells me, “We’re OK here, don’t worry about us for ‘however long it takes’”, then that group goes WAAAY down on my priority list.
Ah, but being prepared is a joke, Sparkle!
tman, that occured about the same time as the other evacuations. if i’m reading the story right (it’s a little confusing) he arrived about the same time as other buses from NO.
No, it makes him perhaps the only living soul left in the city with a lick of sense.
Jeff,
I was listening to the radio last night, some woman sitting in for L. Ingram (Iknow, Radio Free Nazi) and she was saying that the Bush Admin legal request for the Feds taking over was sent the Friday before the Hurricane.
Bush wanted to get the NG and Title 10 troops in to NOLA and have them execute a mandatory evacuation. Gov thought about it for 24 hrs and rejected the request.
If this is so, it sort of throws different light onto a lot of things.
I’d say so. Somebody see if they can track down a transcript? If so, maybe we can get corroboration…
Curious George’s eyebeam heat rays could have welded the levees shut but he refused to use them. Frogmarch him to the well of the Senate!
rls —
Mind if I bump that comment up as a post? Might help folks get on the fact checking end of things.
Tman:
I’m not making excuses for FEMA. You were wondering why there performance was different. Again DoD has lots of experience with changes of plan. City and State changed the game plan (Am I correct in concluding that the Superdome sanctuary was an ad hoc response – is it anywhere in the emergency evacuation plan?) completely and in a way that made what happened inevitable IMHO. FEMA got thrown a curve. It looks like the may have swung and missed but then recovered. Yeah, your Hattiesburg story is less than confidence-building BUT I wonder how much if that is a combination of overwhelming disaster and media-driven prioritization.
Somebody needs to get a life…
Go ahead Jeff.
Peter,
I honestly believe that FEMA’s less than speedy response is due to the increased bureaucracy associated with the D of Homeland Security. I have seen FEMA in action during Hurricane Bob in 1991, and they were much faster in responding. And this was on an island with no bridge (Martha’s Vineyard).
I get the feeling that FEMA has become less effective since it was rolled in to DHS in 2003. And the responses during Katrina so far seem to prove the case.
As far as I know, the Superdome has always been an emergency shelter option, but it was well known (in fact I believe written in the emergency plan) that this was only temporary as it does not have sufficient generator capacity to deal with power outages, nor back up sewage and clean water supplies.
I simply don’t think you understand the severity of the logistical challenges.
Jeff,
Tman is making a mistake common to teevee know-it-alls: that logistics are easy.
Well, there’s an old saying (<a href=”http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2005/n01102005_2005011002.html”</a>”Amateurs study strategy. Professionals study logistics.” ) for a reason.
Cordially…
Boy, *that* sure worked out.
Preview/friend. That drill.
Cordially…
Tman—I know you are not “one of them,” and you seem to have more general knowledge on this disaster than I do, but I don’t understand your position. Are you saying that FEMA should have had the assets—which in this case would have been a small navy of shallow-draft boats—positioned to rescue a hundred thousand stay-behinds in the event New Orleans experienced the worst-case secenario? Because, as I understand it, boats are the only way those people could have been rescued once that levee broke on Tuesday.
Rick,
I never said the logistics were easy. In fact I said they “might even be a nightmare”.
FEMA studies logistics as well. Maybe they should take more notes from the DOD.
Tman,
As far as I know, FEMA taking notes from the DOD is not going to put DOD assets in FEMA’s pockets. Now if we want to have two DOD’s – one for Defense and one for Disaster relief, that’s different.
I, for one, do not want another hand in my pocket.
Saltlick,
No, the levee break was in fact unexpected. Not unimagined, yet unexpected. As Brendan Loy has pointed out “As horrible as the catastrophe has been, please realize that it actually could have been far worse. What occurred was not the long-feared “worst-case scenario,” which involved not a levee breach equalizing the water level in Lake Ponchartrain and “Lake New Orleans,” but rather a storm surge over-topping the levees and causing the water level in “Lake New Orleans,” hemmed in by the still-intact levees, to rise substantially higher than the water level in the lake. If the storm had wobbled a meteorologically insignificant 20 or 30 miles to the west, and/or had not weakened from a Category 5 to a Category 4 at the last minute, that scenario would have occurred, and instead of a slowly developing 10-20 foot flood, New Orleans would have suffered a rapidly developing 30-40 foot flood.”
What I have trouble excusing FEMA for was the response after the levees broke. They knew that the Superdome was only good for a day or two at best. They should have had some sort of evacuation planned for those that were there.
Add that on top of the slug-like response and red tape spreading spree in the other affected areas to the NO problems, and there seem to be large inadequacies a abundantly visible.
“What I have trouble excusing FEMA for was the response after the levees broke. They knew that the Superdome was only good for a day or two at best. They should have had some sort of evacuation planned for those that were there.”
So you’re saying thousands of shallow-draft boats should have been pre-positioned?
(Mixing your last post with this one a bit …)
Niall Ferguson: When I suggested that America truly export its empire around the world, I was thinking specifically about economic freedom, capitalism and what has come to be known as the Protestant Work Ethic. Let me now amend to say that should you actually lose your shame enough to do so, please do not export Keith Olbermann or Hilary Clinton or, for that matter, most of your far Left. Gird up your loins and prosecute them for treason – do that – but don’t export their drivel. Please.
Sorry to be rude and run off, Tman, but I gotta return the truck I rented to make my run to Mississippi. “Talk” with you further tonight.
rls,
I agree that there are enough hands in our pockets. But considering the fact that the DOD was more effective at responding to this disaster than FEMA, it makes you wonder why we are paying FEMA $6 billion a year. Yes, states rights, federalism, etc, but when it comes right down to it, in an emergency I want the BEST AVAILABLE.
FEMA had less funding in 1991 and they seemed to have responded more effectively.
Maybe that’s the problem?
How about this for a TW- “Faith”…..As in don’t have any faith in FEMA…..(sorry, couldn’t resist)…
TMan. You keep assuming the difference in response between ‘91 and ‘05 was on the FEMA side and not on the local side.
Jeff,
I thought about that, and you’re right that the local end in ‘91 was better prepared. But aside from the cluster in NO, other areas had their local shit together it seems, yet FEMA was not as responsive as they were in previous years.
FEMA was on the scene in ‘91 the day after it happened on MVY. They are still waiting in many parts of the Gulf Coast.
Tman,
Assuming you are the Mayor of New Orleans, and you get 72 hours notice that Katrina is going to hit, do you:
a) Requisition a bunch of generators and take them to the Superdome
b) Fill up some trucks with bottled water and take them to the Superdome
c) Requisition food and take it to the Superdome
d) All of the above
or e) Do nothing
Since, the May of NO and Governor of La. chose (e), please explain why they did so?
I’ll take “D” Bruce.
You’re right, this wasn’t done. I already agreed that Nagin nor Blanco were pro-active enough. Still doesn’t excuse FEMA.
Tman —
I’m just saying I am going to wait and see, after the initial hyperbole and mythology has passed into memory, how cooler heads assess FEMA’s performance.
From what I’ve seen so far, they pre-staged and performed as they were supposed to.
Tman,
From the “Governor Blanco Announcement on Hurricane Evacuation on Aug. 28, 2005”
See Page
FEMA was there on the 29th. August 28th is the day before Katrina hit.
I meant: “FEMA was there on the 28th”
Tman,
were?
How about they were grossly incompetent, and it takes a while for any agency like FEMA to make up for such gross negligence.
And when I said NO and La had 72 hours to stockpile supplies at the Superdome … the truth is they had years to do it.
They had years to build concretae parking lots for busses that were above sea level and could survive a storm.
For a couple of million bucks they could have had more than enough food and water for 50,000 people at the Superdome.
They chose to not spend (as far as I know) a penny to make the Superdome adequate.
Gross negligence.
Was it FEMA’s job to pre-position food and water in the Superdome?
It’s not a thread until Gandhi, Ken, or that other guy posts.
Tman, I’m sorry, your complaints, while I disagree with them to a degree, are simply not rude and dismissive enough.
Until you work on that, we won’t come anywhere near the 200 post mark.
I think it’s because you didn’t have enough insults staged at key distributions locations in your frontal lobe.
If anyone is interested Bryan Preston is defending FEMA over at Junk Yard Blog. Hitting some of the same points, too.
Jeff,
I think Tman has made up his mind. No amount of discourse, regardless of the facts presented, is going to dissuade him.
Rather than indict FEMA based on scattered reports from just one side and some unsubstantiated reports, I’ll wait to hear what was and wasn’t done, and the reasons why. I am not giving FEMA a pass – I just realize that I do not know enough.
From what I know, from reliable sources, they were well prepared and staged in advance. I’m sure we will have reports of isolated incidents, that taken at face value, with no rebuttal or explanation sounds like incompetence.
I do not think it is fair to accuse all of the people at FEMA of that incompetence without giving them an opportunity to explain their actions and/or defend their inactions.
I just can’t honestly say that I know enough about what transpired on the ground and what kind of communication was happening to make a judgement. Hell, we don’t even know WHO was calling the shots! Who was making the triage decisions; who was deciding what to do next.
In the end Tman may be proven correct and a bunch of incompetent boobs from FEMA were running hither and yon – yelling that the sky was falling. OTOH we may find out that FEMA wanted to take a specific action that hindsight says was preferred and it got nixed by the locals. I just don’t know.
I do know that the lives of most of those that perished is on the heads of the NOLA Mayor and the Gov of LA. Was it tragic that so many were not saved. Of course. The sad thing is that no matter where the responsibility rests, those people are still dead.
Hurricane Bob?? BOB?! You’ve gotta be f**kin’ kidding me, Tman! You’re comparing a whimp ass storm that was only retired ‘cus we hadn’t had a real hurricane in years with: Hugo, Andrew, Opal, Charlie etc…. and now Katrina with a Cat 2/1 storm that hit a small population in 1991? As reference, note the incompetence of FEMA the very next year with a major hurricane, Hugo.
No offense but a minor incident like “Bob” is a poor judge of performance in a large scale disaster.
<object for which governments come into existence.”</blockquote>died in WWII under Churchill’s “leadership.” And who else can be blamed for their deaths than Churchill himself, for failing to keep everyone in Britain safe? So you cite a huge failure as a yardstick for a much smaller one?
Yes, my reasoning is retarded, but at least I’m doing it on purpose (and not on MSNBC).
Perhaps giving sports scores is where your analytical abilities topped out. Dan Patrick must’ve been the insightful one of your duo.
No offense t-dog, but you might want to head over to Jason van Steenwyk’s site and find a clue about how the logistics of disaster relief work from someone who’s actually participated in numerous relief efforts s a member of the Fla ntlgd.
And I quote:
http://www.iraqnow.blogspot.com/
NO. IT WAS THE WORST EVER BY A CITY GOVERNMENT. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PRETTY MUCH MET ITS STANDARD TIMELINES, BUT THE VOLUME OF SUPPORT PROVIDED IN THE 72-96 HOUR STANDARD WINDOW WAS UNPRECEDENTED. THE FEDERAL RESPONSE HERE WAS FASTER THAN HUGO, FASTER THAN ANDREW, FASTER THAN INIKI, FASTER THAN CHARLEY, FASTER THAN FRANCINE AND JEANNE. HERBERT HAS NO CLUE WHAT IN THE WORLD HE’S TALKING ABOUT.
Frankly, I’m impressed that Olbermann resisted the temptation to put scare quotes around the phrase won re-election. Note also that he managed not to go off on a tangent, citing conspiracy theories and screaming about OHIIIIIIIIOOOOOO!!!
I suppose that in trying times like these, we ought to be thankful for the little things.
Evacuate. Evacuate. Evacuate.
Brit Hume and Fred Barnes get it, but don’t expect the rest of the brain-dead MSM or politicians to get it. Or want to get it.
The problem was evident when people were lining up to get into the Superdome on Sunday.
NOAA tells you everything but the kitchen sink is going to hit your city.
The city was expected to flood. (Surge over the levees)
There will be no bridges when the storm is over (the bridges are designed to fail easily, so they can be repaired easily – solid cost/benefit analysis – look at the repair of I-10 bridge over Escambia Bay in Pensacola after Ivan last year)
You have 500+ buses, 40+ seats per bus, 5 hour round trip to some form of safety, 30 hrs to evacuate, thats 1.2 million citizens that could have been evacuated.
TW: door. Don’t let it hit you in the ass on the way out Mr. Nagrin
thats 120,000 citizens that could have been evacuated
that almost a half a million if the 2,000 school bus report is correct
To everyone,
I remain unconvinced that FEMA was as effective as I have seen it be personally in the past. I don’t claim to have a monopoly on the truth, and I’m not saying FEMA should be scrapped by any means. But after reading continuous complaints from various local leaders at the general ineptitude of FEMA in responding, as well as reading the statements by Michael Brown that just make my head spin, not to mention the inability of FEMA to get those folks stranded at the Dome and the convention center the hell out of the city, or the seemingly endless red-tape issues that are propping up in Mississippi and Alabama (which I have heard about personally through businesses I work with with in the area), I remain adamant that FEMA be unscrupulously analyzed, and major heads removed if these all turn out to be true.
This is our first line of defense against major disasters besides the local and state levels. They have a $6 billion budget. Yes, I understand the logistical problems, but I don’t see it as an adequate excuse for many of the problems I’ve read and heard about.
I will reiterate that Nagin and Blanco are equally if not more to blame for the tragedies in NO, but FEMA was supposed to be the back up, and I feel that they failed as well.
Tman, we still have the question “what could they have done better, and how, given the physical and legal constraints?”
You just keep telling us you feel they could have done better.
Well, I feel that they couldn’t have.
Done, end of argument.
No Charlie, read my posts again. I state specifics.
Not just “I feel they could have done better”.
This seems to be damning, but upon closer inspection I’m not so sure.
I mean, maybe I’m being obtuse—and please correct me if anyone knows better, because I’m not an expert on logistics—but doesn’t it make sense to see where I hurricane hits, and at what force it hits, before making the final request for FEMA personnel?– particularly when the plan calls for the local government to take control for the first 3-4 days?
The local and state governments failed utterly. The federal government failed to outperform sufficiently so that the locals could skate away untouched, so THEY failed. “Journalists” (and sycophantic, spent bloggers like Jarvis) saw an opportunity to pile on and look like white knights. Savvy veterans like Tierney knew better. Koz is gonna bust a blood vessel. Many bloggers are holding steady, a few are rising above. And the public ain’t buying what the media’s selling. When it hits the courts, it hits the fan.
Oh. And yeah, Olbermann made a fool of himself. Almost forgot. That was the post, right?
I give up.
The Feds should have flown in on a magic hurricane-proof carpet on Tues afternoon, swooped down, loaded the entire convention center—which the locals hadn’t even told them about—plus the Superdome, and flew off to the north pole, to bask in the sunshine and eat candycanes with Santa, his elves, and the easter bunny.
TW: people is in “some people”.
Keith Olbermannnn is Ron Burgundy.
Tman:
Interesting discussion.
My own belief is that an immediate mandatory evacuation was necessary two days before the hurricane hit. Think about it! It was a Cat 5 storm! Headed straight for NO! The Mayor and the Govenor froze. Simple as that. The dice finally came up snake eyes. Once the levy broke, it was going to be an unmitigated diaster.
You can debate FEMA paperwork and logistics response all you wish. There’s no way to plan for every contigency. Part of the plan is for the locals to do something…anything. From the news stories that came out of Louisiana, it appeared that the city and state governments abandoned NO. That’s the real tragedy.
If FEMA is such a f**king mess, where are the charges from Mississippi, Alabama, South Florida?
Why was there no cry for its dismemberment last year after Hurricane Ivan and the four consecutive hurricanes that swept through Florida?
FEMA was on the job in each of those instances and is/has been doing an excellent job of a third tier responder. Do you really want the federal government to take over the role of first or second responders? Are you willing to pay the price of such an absurd, Constitution busting effort?
Why is it that the only clusterfuck of this tragic storm happened in New Orleans? An honest assessment will reveal that the single most devasting event in this human tragedy was the failure to get people out of town. That was and is the State and Local government’s responsibility.
Keith Olberman is the only man with the power, yeah power I say, to make Bill O’Reilly look of at least mediocre intelligence.
Thank you, Jim in Chicago, for providing me with a much needed laugh. I was about to break out the all-caps all-bolded screamer on T-“I just feels dat ole Bush coulda saved all dose po’ people but he’s a racist!”-man. But now I won’t.
Wow, I can make dents with my fingernails in laminated pressboard. I didn’t know that.
You dumb, heartless schmuck!
WHO PAYS YOU FOR THIS SHIT?
The smarter rats are already deserting the singking ship. I suggest you join them: a new GOP administration will be forming shortly.
Gandhi the liar returns.
The day that Gandhi here prophesies the domination of the entire world by the GOP is the day I worry that our sun may be waning a bit.
Listen to gandhi mimicking the local color!
Careful there, gandhi. Your boys at Stormfront might start figuring you for a mole!
Jeff:
One of the best fiskings I’ve ever read by the best writer on the Internet today. Simply superb.
OTOH, seeing as how Olbermann’s buried the needle on the Linda Blair gauge, this almost qualifies as making fun of the mentaly ill. So I’m feeling kind of guilty for liking this as much as I do.
Any advice?
Gandhi’s planning seems to be the same as that used by New Orleans and Louisiana – close your eyes and wish really, really hard, and it will all come true.
Word: found; as in “if the government of LA and NO is ever please let someone know.”
The federal response took four days. FOUR DAYS! Critics are acting as if the feds didn’t arrive for 6 weeks. IT WAS FOUR DAYS!
Jeez. If the local and state gov’t had been even minimally prepared that FOUR day wait would now look like a reasonable response.
If people like Olbermann would have spent much more time pleading with viewers to leave or to at least have provisions for a few days the suffering wouldn’t have been nearly what it was.
As long as people like Olbermann are telling us what the feds should have done better perhaps we should examine what HE should have done better.
Singking? I like the sound of that! But who should be named Singking? A king of singing should have an incredible voice. Al Green, maybe? He’s one helluva singer. I know I’d vote for Al Green to be Singking.
All hail the Singking, the Reverend Al Green!
Know why things were so bad in LA?
BECAUSE THE MEDIA LET THOSE FOLKS DOWN.
The talking heads and whining libs who are crying about how big poppa Bush didn’t save everyone right away are the same idiots who were NOT running serious warnings to folks in the path of a hurricane to evacuate. They had a duty to use their public airwaves and media outlets to warn the public that one of the most serious disasters ever seen in this country was bearing down on them. But, the victims didn’t get the overwhelming chorus telling them what was about to happen, their families didn’t call them from Maryland to demand they evacuate, and the local grifter-politicos didn’t feel the heat to put some sort of response together–because the national news networks was more concerned about some crazy woman in Texas than with the lives of hundreds of thousands of African-Americans.
Next time someone asks why things were so bad in LA, you tell them it was Keith Olberman’s fault.
tman and others,
I guess FEMA had control of the hundreds of NO School and Municipal buses that have been reported and photographed sitting in NO parked in neat flooded rows? I do believe these were under the control of the MAYOR of NO who, if he gave a damn about his citizens and was doing HIS job, he would have had those buses evacuating those who got left behind. Because as I believe you and others have indicated, this should have been part of any evacuation plan. An evacuation plan that is usually done and executed by the CITY not FEMA or any other federal organization.
Allow me to throw a link into the discussion – WWL TV, New Orleans, Sunday, Aug. 28:
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082705nagin.b7724856.html
… in which the mayor clearly states that there were *not* going to be much in the way of supplies at the Superdome, and that you were expected to BYO. In which he also clearly “discourages” people from going there.
And also in which it is told that there were 12 pick-up points around town for free busses to take folks to other shelters. I heard a radio report that those busses were nowhere near full, and many virtually empty – not been able to verify that report anywhere, though.
You know for reporter Olbermann would make a good Sports Center Anchor… Oh wait….
Excellent point, RC. I agree with those who think finger-pointing should wait until much more is known about who did what, when, and what their options really were.
I will say that the Bush administration is handling itself well in this respect, refusing to point fingers even when many are prematurely pointed at them.