Following up on my earlier post, I tracked down the email addresses of WaPo reporters Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu, the two gentlemen responsible for the story suggesting Bush requested Governor Blanco cede authority to the feds on Friday.
At question here, though, is which Friday—Aug 26, before the storm hits landfall? or Sept 2, after the looting and in advance of the martial law declared by Nagin? Context suggests August 26. But the Nagin press conference confuses things a bit.
Here’s the text of my email:
Regarding your Sept 4 piece, “Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting: White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials,” I need clarification. You write, “Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.
“The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request.”
On what Friday (Aug 26 or Sept 2) did Bush send Governor Blanco “a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of evacuations”?
I will be publishing or excerpting from your response, so your quick would be greatly appreciated.
Respectfully,
Jeff Goldstein
I will try following up with a phone call, but some of you might email Mssrs Hsu and Roig-Franzia yourselves:
****
Still waiting on further corroboration, but for now at least, I’m leaning toward September 2nd.
Jeff,
From the context (evacuations, rather than rescue), it certainly appears to refer to August 26. Commonsense-wise.
Cordially…
I’m inclined to agree, Rick. But if it turns out to be the 26th, and we can verify this, all this nonsense about the President not seizing control (he clearly tried) would be put to rest.
Jeff,
You’re still quite the optimist.
Cordially…
Manuel: I’ve just received like several hundred emails this morning about when the Chimp sent out the legal memo to Blanco…
Spencer: Me too. Karl Rove must be behind this…
Now this, is citizen journalism.
Fact checking?
This could do for blogging what Carson did for McMahon. Or something.
MC: Watch for the phrase “carefully orchestrated plot by Republicans.”
Meanwhile… I received a reply!
Dear sir,
Thank you for your inquiry. We at the Washington Post are committed to the highest levels of accuracy and fairness.
The answer to your question is: whichever is worse for Bush.
Regards
Hmmm, I’m still not sure which date they meant. Hope you guys had better luck.
From Right Wing Nut House’s timeline, it looks like it was Sept. 2. I don’t think this reflects badly on Bush, however. This appears to be a drastic step, taken when it was very clear that Blanco and Nagin were, ah, in over their heads and their resources (NOPD and others) were significantly degraded.
If it turns out to be August 19th, Bush will look like a genius.
swimdad
Regardless of the date, it’s clear that the Bush administration was trying to take a more proactive approach to managing the crisis than the media is giving him credit for.
But they’ll still spin it as a neo-fascist “power grab” by Chimpy McHallibushitler.
…and a few minutes ago, Fox News asked the Louisiana Governor about Nagin’s declaration that the city was going to be forcibly evacuated, and she said that it was her decision to make, and that she hadn’t decided to do that yet.
Governor Blanco takes 24 hours to decide whether or not to defecate.
So it only took Nagin 12 days to figure out a mandantory evacuation means everybody has to leave.
Good to see we are making progress.
Me, too. But I decide yesterday for today’s defecations.
Better than the frick’n week it takes Bush to decide to shit or get off the pot.
Do you have anything of substance to add, Hal? Or are you just here to start the “Bush did nothing” horseshit that it’s becoming more apparent by the minute is total hogwash?
No need to answer. Those were rhetorical questions.
Well, I could point to Blanco’s state of emergency letter to Bush which seems to directly refute the seemingly consistent claim that Blanco never asked for the Federal government to step in and the whole respect for federalism prevented poor ol’ FEMA from stepping in.
Or I could point to Think Progress’ timeline which is sourced and seems to clearly lay out the damning sequence of events that you seem to think the EM ES EM is purposefully skewing.
Or any number of pointers to information that seems to escape your scouring eye.
But then you’d just accuse me of link dumping and then play the “too cool for school card” and claim that you’re not going to argue about it all.
Considering the other comments on this thread, apparently what you consider to be substance has only to do with taking cheap pot shots at the people directly affected by the disaster and the local officials whom you’re desperately trying to scape goat.
But hey, if you have any substance in your comment threads, I’ll be the first to jump in.
What are you, some kind of citizen journalist or something?
Jesus, this is like a nightmare. Pretend that the emergency letter red herring hasn’t been addressed a hundred times simply because you’re dropping it in a new thread?—followed up by a time line by Think Progress?
Goodbye, Hal.
Blanco’s emergency letter:
This doesn’t look like she was requesting the Federal government to step in . Looks more like boiler plate for funding programs.
WaTimes and WaPost agree on this basic element. They must have been clashing about something. Somehow I don’t think Jeb and W do much clashing during disasters so it’s reasonable to suspect one was playing partisan politics.
Could you answer my questions now please, Azael?
Forget it, Boris. With the help of the commenters here I’ve excerpted from all the pertinent documents, gone over posse comitatus, broken down FEMA’s support role, discussed the jurisdictional control of the local government and the Governor of LA, examined potential instances in which the feds might override Blanco’s disinclination to allow federal control, etc.
Hal wants to pretend none of that happened. He’s here to argue for the sake of arguing. He wants attention. He ain’t getting it from me anymore.
Argue with him at your leisure, but he is dishonest and unserious.
Corvan, what questions? Sorry, but I don’t want to gather them all up via sifting through zillions of comments.
That link don’t seem to be working, all I get is a letter from the Governor asking for money. Is there a part in there where she asks or authorizes physical help?
By the way Azael, has anyone pointed out what an insufferable fucking twit you are, lately?
Jeff, I’m sure your legal interpretation plays well in the blogosphere, but it’s not the court that matters. Yes, you’ve managed to convince yourself you’re right, but the real facts seem to be dripping out.
I imagine your previous posts and comment threads will hold up quite well when (“Bob” forbid) 10’s of thousands of dead start making the news. Oh wait! They’re conveniently preventing anyone from taking photos of the dead.
Standard Operating Procedure, I’m sure.
Sure Moe, but I guess one can judge one’s self by the enemies one makes.
Love the bit about how they’re just trying to suck up money from the federal teet.
Yea, that’s the ticket.
“I guess one can judge one’s self by the enemies one makes. “
I was thinking the same thing about someone pissed because they can’t exploit photos of the dead for political gain.
I’m sure everyone can get behind this effort. It’s all about the TRUTH, right? It’d be nice if those on the right could lend their leverage against an administration famous for their secrecy and foot dragging with respect to these requests.
When John gets back from teaching class I’ll see if he can add Azael to this open letter.
Ah yes, the old expoiting the dead trick. You mean like linking 9/11 to Iraq? Using 9/11 to justify tax give aways? Using 9/11 to justify pretty much everything?
Yea, photos of the dead. I guess 10’s of thousands of dead isn’t newsworthy.
Yea, because IT’S NOT A GAME Jeff.
Now THAT is adolescent.
Stomp your feet, Azael. Stop your feet until we’re allowed to see the “dead”—who, I might point out, aren’t a demographic to be used for your convenience, but are actual people who might have actual surviving family members and who have been floating in water for a week and presumably being ripped up by debris.
And you think they should be shown…why? To show the FURY OF MOTHER NATURE?
Hell, I lay this all at the door of the local government, now that political finger pointing has forced me even to consider such things. And yet I don’t want the bodies used as political props.
Stop pretending you give a fuck about anybody who died, Azael. YOu care about nothing but arguing and trying to pin blame. Smugly, persistently. Many of us here have really tried to understand the chain of events, the logistical problems, and the layers of bureaucracy that got us where we are today.
For your part, you’ve shit on all of that, dropped smug asides, smarmy provocations about “courage,” etc.
You’re a fucking buffoon. Seriously. And now you’re a buffoon who wants mangled, bloated, vermin-eaten bodies of peope who are still listed as missing plastered the front pages of tabloids. I don’t understand how you can look at yourself in the mirror.
Jeff, why the hell should I care if Cole puts my fake name on some assigning blog post of his? Stomping my feet? Yea, they’re stomping – not.
I don’t know Jeff, if it was me, I’d wish they were on 24 hours a day in people’s face so they couldn’t treat this as a sanitized event they don’t have to see the results of putting incompetent boobs in charge of critical agencies.
Of course you lay this at the door of local government. And you’re sensitivity to bodies is simply because you know precisely the emotions they’ll release – and the political repercussions when people start figuring out what a tremendous fuck up it was.
Great, blame the local authorities. Like I said before, I doubt the facts will show that they did anything less than cry out for help which was pretty much ignored due to massive incompetence. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of traction with this line.
Hey, I’m not the one who’s been using his blog non stop as a propaganda event to shift blame and make damn sure it doesn’t land on his party. Yea, you’re really showing a huge amount of empathy and consideration. The comments on the post have been truly precious. I love the jeering, the name calling and nasty remarks. I can really feel the love.
You’re simply trying to gain the upper hand on framing, Jeff. You’re not interested in the truth. You’re interested in assigning blame. Just look at comments on this thread regarding Blanco’s letter. Nothing but derision, and trying to frame it as a desperate ploy for some government scratch.
Real class.
Luckily, my life doesn’t depend on you understanding anything about me, Jeff.
Still, courage. Keep trying to make it STICK.
or a sense of decency and respect for the dead and their survivors, that you’d hope the press would have without having to be asked.
also, if we extend your thinking on 9/11 it will be wrong for us to change policy based on what happens as a result of Katrina, which i don’t think is what anyone wants.
Now that certainly doesn’t follow, does it?
Let’s just back up and take a small accounting.
I’m criticizing the policy of preventing photos of the dead. I respond to criticism that I’m simply using the dead by pointing to the use of 9/11 to pretty much justify everything. From this you deduce that my policy would prevent any policy change as a result of Katrina.
No that is a leap of logic completely unjustified by any of the comments I’ve made.
Brilliant!
What pules me increasingly is how anyone can, with a straight face, read the part about asking for money from the SBA as part of a request for the President to federalize the National Guard.
Which, by the way Hal, Blanco still hasn’t done, at least as of the 5th. This according to AP, not generally known as a right-wing front.
Okay Azael,
Here are those questions again. I want to note that you’ve avoided answering them on more than one occasion. As a matter of fact the final time they were asked last night you said you would not answer them because you did not “answer demands.”
1. Do you understand that in a natural disaster the State authority is the primary care giver. The Feds render aid only in a supporting role and only at the State’s request.
2. Most of your posts seem to indicate you don’t understand number 1. Why not?
3. You said the jury was still out for you on who, if anyone, bore responsibility for any problems in LA then you immediately gave Goerge Bush an “F”. How is that consistent?
4. You said that the Feds should have stepped in to handle this matter because the State couldn’t. Then why did State and local officials have a plan for just such a disaster. A plan that called for them to handle the situation for 3 to 5 days?
5. You claimed relief didn’t arrive quickly enough. Then why does the general on the ground in NO say that he got there as quickly as he could?
6. Why are you holding President Bush to a standard you don’t hold the state and locals too?
7. How is a question a demand?
8. Oh and one more, why shouldn’t the relatives of the deceased be contacted before their dead love one picture’s are plastered all over the country? Why should the press be given a pass on common decency, and why should FEMA be castigated for asking them to have a little?
Corvan,
1. Red herring. Read Blanco’s letter from the 26th requesting said aid.
2. Because your types believe Blanco was requesting porta potties instead of – you know – FEMA, federal aid and all the national guard they can send.
3. If I recall correctly, I said “seems like” he deserves an F. Unless I’m mistaken, that’s wiggle room.
4. Um, read Blanco’s letter again. Especially the part
5. Um, because he’s wrong?
6. Um, see Blanco’s letter again.
7. When you repeatedly demand that I answer them over and over again.
8a. Because that’s the way it is. It’s called news. It’s a frick’n disaster. Think anyone of the dead shown in the Tsunami had their relatives contacted first?
8b. It’s called real life. It’s dirty, nasty and has claws. I thought you conservatives understood this. Funny to find that you’re all such wimpy panty waists.
i’m sorry, i thought you were taking the moral high road. implying that exploiting the dead was wrong after all. (i mean, we know you don’t agree with the war in iraq, tax cuts, and pretty much everything this administration does)
yeah, hal, keep repeating that instead of like, actually doing it yourself, courage.
When I read Azael’s (aka cumbubble) comments I feel like Bill Murray in Ground Hogs Day. No matter how many people make clear, concise, logical arguments he just isn’t going to accept them. Can you imagine sitting behind him in a theater as he tries to figure out what is happening in a movie? Yes, he is that annoying person. Oh yeah, he probably has his cell phone on too.
Azael is the kind of person who cheats at Solitaire…
Or craps in your toilet and doesn’t flush (no toilet paper either), or steals your morning newspaper because he is too cheap to buy one, or takes money OUT of a coffee can instead of putting it in. I like this game.
Okay, so your whole rational for blaming the local authorities rests on the presumption that Blanco didn’t ask for federal aid. She pretty much did.
Your entire defense depends on turning Blanco’s direct and unambiguous request for the federal government to do whatever they can to help out because the locals won’t be able to deal with a cat 4 coming down the pike into a request for welfare, porta potties and tissues.
Oh, and a healthy suckling off those tasty federal dollars which is their real strategy.
And all the posts here have been nothing but a massive cuddlebutt of framing things that way. But that one letter – just that letter – pretty much destroys all the inane effort in picking apart the Stafford act. It’s all just an effort to belittle, castigate and distract from the obvious conclusions that one seems to be able to draw.
“Azael is the kind of person who cheats at Solitaire…”
…because he doesn’t realize the deck only has 51 cards…
Ha ha Jeff. That’s the kind of substantive comments I’ve come to expect from your blog. Just makes your predictable opening shot about substantive comments all the more precious.
yes, yes, courage.
You’re right, “Azael.” I’ve provided nothing substantive. No links, no research, nothing. Unlike you, who’s linked the same letter over and over again, impervious to the established fact that it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
OT:
Is America buying the relentless “blame the feds” media blitz?
No. Not really.
Which, does this mean Shep won’t get his Pulitzer?
oh jeff, he doesn’t care about polls, cause he’s smarter than everyone. courage.
I don’t care about polls either, maggie. That’s just for when gandhi shows up again to tell us how America is rising up to oust this Administration over Katrina.
Azael is a gnat.
Why should anyone take your seriously Azael? I know a dozen fuck puppets like you at work. The bottom line is that you are not capable of understanding complex problems. The fine people here trying to help you out are getting frustrated. But not me. I’m just gonna make fun of you. No serious attempts from me to dissuade you from your ignorance. Enjoy it. Pearls before swine. And I’m thinking that you are not the pearl.
Azael,
I’m sorry but your answers do you no credit. No one demanded anything of you. We still aren’t.
Blanco’s letter was not an abrogation of control of the situation. Do you believe it was? Do you think by that that letter she dissolved the governement of LA. and asked the Feds to take control? The letter doesn’t say that. It asks for assitance (which was given and is being given), not to be pushed aside.
Seems like he deserves an “F?” Funny, he’s the only one you’ve drawn that conclusion on. You’ve grone to great pains to give every other person invovled in this matter the benefit of the doubt, but not George Bush. I’m afraid that says more about you than his performance.
What proof do you have that the General is wrong. You haven’t given any yet. I’m willing to listen.
You refer constantly to Blanco’s letter. Just as you did last night, but you refuse to point out how that letter secedes all of Blanco’s power and control of the situation.
Lastly you claim that real life gives the press carte blance to treat human reamins the same way they would treat an armadillo squashed in the road. After that you sling about you obligatoy ad hominems. I’m not being personal, here. You’re just not persuasive.
Listen, there maybe an argument out there that FEMA is a flawed instituion. Same goes for DHS, for that matter. But you haven’t made it. Seriously, I’m listening. Explain to me how Gov. Blanco’s letter removes the State of LA from the equation. How Gov. Blanco, in the letter, abandons all her powers and scedes them to the Federal government. And last but not least how a letter should override over two hundred years of settled American law and the Constitution of the United States? If you can you’ll have a case. As it is, all you have is a hatred of George Bush.
Again Ghandi didn’t understand American law in general and Federalism in particular because he’s doesn’t live in the United States. Why don’t you?
I apologize for my spelling. Spell check is my friend.
Yea, right Jeff. I’m so gnat.
The problem you have is this. Either Blanco pleaded for aid or she didn’t. You’re left with only a few options since all available evidence shows that she did.
Option 1 is to prove that she didn’t.
Kind of hard with her letter and the legal record although you still seem to be giving it the old college try.
Option 2 is to prove some technicality which tied the hands of the government.
This is the bulk of your links and arguments. Desperately looking at time lines. Parsing laws. Seeing if every “t” was crossed and “i” was dotted.
Option 3 is to simply poison the well and destroy character.
This is pretty much your bailiwick and lord knows it may work.
But in reality it’s a pretty pathetic way to construct a defense. Even if all the t’s weren’t crossed and i’s dotted, even if the local response was pathetic, the response at the federal level was also pathetic. Having the mayor send out an SOS, pleading for support is simply hard to ignorable. The pathetic image of people packed into the superdome and convention center desperate for help is likewise impossible to ignore.
You can keep parsing, link dumping and posting up a storm, but I believe that’s what they call an evidence dump or just plain “spin” in the vernacular. Your premise is invalid so no amount of well thought out and referenced argument is going to change that.
Either Blanco requested federal aid like her letter said, and your entire edifice collapses like a cheap suit, or she didn’t.
All signs point to “she did”.
Corvan, you’re laboring under the misapprehension that I’m making the argument that LA was taken out of the equation – it doesn’t. But what part of
don’t you understand? “such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of state and affected local governments”. That’s “please, dear god, help us” for the learning impaired.
Your entire premise is that somehow the governor was getting in the way of the feds responding. You rest your entire argument on some bizarro parsing of federalist principles.
If that’s you’re entire defense, you just simply don’t have one.
Ah, Azael, in your haste and urgency to cuddle the butts of a pair of Democratic politicians, you’ve fallen for the “selective quote” trick.
The damned document is an image PDF, sure sign of an anal retentive in the chain somewhere, but I’m a fair typist. Look back at the original for confirmation, but:
There is absolutely no physical assistance requested in that list, and in case you aren’t familiar with the map of Louisiana, the parishes listed are the ones that were anticipated to take the brunt (and in fact did.) What she’s asking for here is MONEY. That’s ALL she’s asking for. There are capital letters in all that for a reason: those are all names of FEMA programs for handing out money. DFA, for instance, is how you get reimbursement from the Feds if your house blows away.
Again, citing programs that hand out money. No physical aid asked for, or even mentioned.
[… leaving out the list of what the State agencies are doing/will do and expect to get reimbursed (!) for, we come to]
So not only is she asking for money, she’s asking for the Federal Government to pay it ALL, no contributions from State and local governments for the big-ticket items. And then comes your selected quote:
So it’s in there, all right. But what comes next? Context is important.
So the ONLY thing she’s asking for physical assistance with, rather than just demanding a check be sent (by direct deposit, of course; the banks might be closed), is debris removal after the storm is over. Medical response? There’s a Title for that; not mentioned. Rescue? There’s a Title for search and rescue; not mentioned. Supplies, food, water, medicine etc. for evacuees? There’s a named Title for that one, too, actually several of them; no mention whatever.
So cuddle those butts, Azael. Cuddle ‘em tight, and offer all the comfort you can manage. Courage. If you just keep lying loudly and often enough you might just pull this off. No, not loud enough yet. COURAGE! LIE HARDER!
—
By the way, the last page of that is the kicker; you ought to get at least a chuckle out of it. You know what Gov. (the Hon.) “Wet” Blanco thought she might need from the Feds for all this? A hundred and thirty million dollars. The debris removal she had her panties in a wad about? Thirty million, total. A Cat 5 hurricane is bearing down on a city where a 900 sq. ft. “shotgun” goes for $500,000 and up, and she thinks she might need seventy-five million for the Individuals and Households Program. Sheesh. That’s not a cry for help. That’s an attempted con-game by somebody too chickenshit to go for the real money.
Cuddle that butt, Azael. Cuddle it tight. It’s gonna need it.
Regards,
Ric
tw: has—Gov. Blanco has a good cuddler
Sorry Azael, not only do you pretend the document is an abdication of LA authority when it is not, you selectively read the document. “…supplementary Federal assistance…” is just that, supplementary. the Governor is sitll in charge. You see, the Gov. wasn’t asking for the Feds to take over and make descisions. She was making the decisions.
She still is. And to this moment she still hasn’t signed off on a mandatory evacuation order for NO (despite mayor Nagin’s request that she do so). Addtionally, the state of LA (Not FEMA, not the Feds) refused to allow red cross workers to take food and water to the Superdome, even though the food and water had been prepositioned outside of the city, becuase they did not want to encourage people to go to the Superdome.
The Feds though giving assistance, are still forced to play her tune. Even now, they can only encourage people to leave. Which they are doing.
Also, you still haven’t offered one shred of proof that Federal aid could have arrived a moment quicker than it has, nor have you tried.
Likewise, you have refused to admit that if NO had followed its own disaster plan, and used its own buses, which it allowed to drown, no one would have been trapped in the Superdome.
And finally, you toss off another personal insult. I’m sorry, you become less persuasive by the moment.
Thanks for that, Ric. This stuff has been covered in several other threads—and I’ve no doubt “Azael” will ignore the response and post his link in yet another thread the next time he wishes to pretend he’s done research—but I’ll simply refer all comers from here on out back to your summary.
“Azael”—I’ll let others judge if my posts on this matter attempted to attack the Governor’s character or whether or not I went out of my way to find and post the facts and they became available – including joining my commenters in wading through and learning about jurisdictions, chains of command, actual agency functions, etc.
Meanwhile, you’ve done nothing but come in acting smug and self-assured, with nothing to offer but your own repeated ignorance.
And now you’ve been thoroughly spanked yet again. One might begin to think you come here just for the beatings.
Hate to break up the Azalea flame war but thought you might like to know a little about WaPo’s Spencer Hsu. I first noticed him when he covered the byzantine world of Virginia politics in the late 80s/early 90s when the Democratic stranglehold began to crumble. Unlike Post colleague Ellen Nakashima, Hsu’s stories were fair to both parties, informative and, above all, accurate. If he had an agenda, I couldn’t tell you what it was – it was the 5 Ws with analysis shaped by discussions with the people who knew what was actually happening. In short, he’s a reporter as opposed to a ax-grinding scold and perhaps that’s why his byline has been a rarity over the ensuing years. If the Post has put him on this story you should expect something more than their usual product.
See? You’re just taking Option 2. It’s all Blanco’s fault because she didn’t ask correctly and didn’t dot the right i’s. It was those pesky states rights that tied poor ol’ Bush’s hands.
Boo hoo – I guess. Oh well, get a govenor who knows how to declare a disaster correctly, I guess.
But I suppose
really just means “send porta potties pronto”.
Pretty damn pathetic argument, Ric.
Jeff, your tactics were pretty well played out in high school. Yep, just keep attacking me.
Because you’re all about the argument.
No, Azael, Ric’s not taking option two. He’s pointing out what the document you’ve based your entire argument on actually says, instead of what you want it to say. There is a difference, and I think that in another context, one in which you weren’t looking to skewer GW Bush, you would notice that.
No, you’ve all just declared what you think it says. No one seriously believes you, but you keep pushing it just the same. Your fall back position is that, even if Bush was actually responsible, they did a fantastic – simply fantastic – job.
I’m sure your parsing – which believe me, puts Clinton to shame – will stand up to the test of time.
Oh, and Ric baby. Have a link for that secret PDF, or are you just keeping the secret decoder ring to yourself?
Azael, facts aren’t decided by polls. The document says what is says. No matter how feverish you become you can’t make it say something else.
That said, you could still give me some evidence that Federal assistance didn’t arrive as quickly as it could have. I’m willing to listen.
Cuddle more tightly, Azael. You aren’t providing enough comfort. Be proactive!
From the Stafford Act:
“Send porta-potties pronto?” No—that’s in paragraph 5170b, subparagraph a.3.B, which is not mentioned or referenced in Gov. Blanco’s letter.
And no, I’m not criticizing Blanco’s form-filling skills. She, or whoever drew up the letter, managed to match the exact language of para. 5170, quoted above; note the emphasis, which is mine. That’s not a cry for help. That’s cut-and-paste of the boilerplate, direct from the Act—which you’ll note is in .shtml to facilitate that.
Your butt-cuddling is inadequate. Perhaps you should call in gandhi or Ken to cuddle the other side at the same time?
Regards,
Ric
tw: basic—Basic reading skills required. Not for internal application.
Hey Ric, pray tell what the *appropriate* way Blanco should have requested assistance. Seems to me she was just trying to meet all the various pieces of red tape of the act. The stuff you’re holding up for ridicule is no small matters either. I mean, right now they’re doing the “we really mean it this time” evacuation because of all the shit and debris laying around. Think that’s going to be cheap to move? Think LA or NO is going to even have a tenth of the funds to do that? Of course not. But what you do is hold up a perfectly reasonable request as the entire point of the document. Of course, it doesn’t take much to say: it’s an emergency, we need a shit load of help, we hold you harmless and give the US government all access to do what’s necessary.
I mean, really. Why is her asking for this other stuff – beyond the obvious emergency assistance – something to be ridiculed?
Okay, Azael, now you’re just making a total idiot out of yourself. “Nobody seriously believes you”?
My God, man. You just don’t stop digging.
Here. Review this post and this post and the comment threads.
And <a href=”http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster Relief Request.pdf” target=”_blank”>here’s the PDF</a> of Blanco’s memo. Oddly, you’ve been quoting it with a great deal of confidence; one would thing you’d have access to the thing. I mean, if I didn’t know better, I’d guess you hadn’t even read it.
Wow Ric, are you for real? From Blanco’s letter
Man, that’s pretty much WORD FOR FUCKING WORD, ain’t it?
So, what’s your point, reading comprehension boy?
Jesus, Azael —
Is your new position that Bush should have read Blanco’s mind—seen past her incompetence—and federalized the cleanup and rescue efforts for a hurricane that wasn’t to hit land for two more days?
Or are you making fun of Blanco for WANTING to hand over control of her state to the feds two days before the hurricane hit landfall?
I have a hard time following you.
Except for the fact the letter doesn’t say LA will give the Fed. Govt. access to do all that is necessary.
Azael, honestly, I think you’d be better off at this point citing some evidence that the Federal Assistance didn’t arrive as quickly as it could have. Arguing the letter has turned out to be a mistake.
Holy crap Corvan, are you people for real? Again, using the same frick’n source.
I mean, really.
Now you’re just nitpicking, corvan. That this is a standard request for monetary aid doesn’t matter to Azael. That usurping the Governor’s power is an impeachable offense except under very specific circumstances doesn’t matter to Azael. That the Washington Post—bastion of conservative politics—notes that Blanco didn’t ask for outside National Guard help until Wednesday (which, SHE did, presumably, thinking SHE was still in charge) doesn’t matter.
What matters is, Blanco saw the hurricane coming and knew it was an emergency. Hell, she filled out a form saying so! And that means BRING IN THE FEDS TO TAKE OVER THE STATE!—even if that’s not what she said or not what the law allows.
PEOPLE WERE DYING!
I guess she simply didn’t say “pretty please with sugar on top”.
Okay, I’m starting to guess that “Azael” is not going to read the links I provided him with.
Which means I’m not going to bother with him anymore. Why cover this territory again? Let him do his own fucking work.
But one more for the road. Don’t like the WaTimes? Compare it to the WaPo story I linked.
See, it’s just a request for monetary aid. That’s your entire defense. This is what your entire house of cards rests upon. You buttress it with scary voodoo of impeachment and raising the specter of feds taking over which works for the Waco and Ruby Ridge crowd, but – considering Blanco is a democrat and democrats don’t have a problem with Federal assistance and asking for it – really is laughable from an argument perspective.
Azael, the document says accomplish “the approved work.” It says “due to the requested work.” Really who do you think is approving and requestiing the work? The state of LA. that’s who. Again, I’m being as charitable to you as I can when I tell you, arguing the letter was a mistake. So let’s turn to fresher pastures. Do you have any evidence that Federal assistance could have arrived sooner?
You mean the one that was corrected because a senior administration official lied to the reporter? That one?
The Times article is pure innuendo, speculation and hearsay.
Lovely facts you have there Jeff.
Moonie times. Geesh.
My lord Corvan, that’s rather amazing semantics there. You keep coming up with finer and finer points. It’s like arguing how many political appointees can dance on the head of a pin.
Azael, the law applies the same way whether you are a Democrat or a Republican. Believe me, I am telling you this in a spirit of cooperation and brotherhood. The letter is a loser for you. Expain how the Feds could have gotten to NO more quickly. Maybe you’ll have a chance there.
Because Azael won’t cllick himself (even after I said try to the WaPo if you’re going to dismiss the “moonie” times)…
— Washington Post.
Incidentally, while I was doing nothing but attacking the character of the Governor, I was able to find out on background that the Friday in question is Sept 2; now, why would Bush be asking her to cede control on Sept 2 if she’d already done so?
yes, courage, hal. keep repeating til it sticks. courage.
Courage, Azael! Keep up the good fight! Don’t let ‘em get your goat! You have to keep a cool head among all the wingers!
I would be inclined to offer Nagin a little slack if the attacks in the other direction weren’t so stupidly persistent. I may anyway. Thanks for the confirmation that you Lefties are about to toss Hizzoner off the sleigh, by the way—do you realize you haven’t mentioned him by name all evening?
Mayor Nagin sent out his plea for help from a commadeered hotel suite in the middle of a hurricane, remember? How in the seven circles of Perdition do you expect help to show up when the wind is 120 MPH and all the bridges are down? It doesn’t make any damn difference how sympathetic anybody is or isn’t when you simply can’t get there from here.
As for the convention center and Superdome—who was it, again, who sent those people there and didn’t send medical supplies, food, or even a few cases of bottled water? Who was it who crowded some tens of thousands of people into a restricted space, then failed to provide any kind of law enforcement or security? Hint: the person was male, and did not have a surname beginning with “B”.
Who was it, again, who failed totally to stick to the plan that was filed, thus requiring FEMA to start over from square one in the middle of crashing catastrophe? The whole reason there are plans, and people practice executing those plans, is so that when the shit hits the fan it isn’t necessary to stop and decide who’s responsible for hitting the switch and who’s supposed to go for the paper towels.
And yes, I’m going to stick to one technicality: the law says the Governor has to ask for help. The Governor asked for money, and for help with debris removal. She did not ask for help on the ground. And she certainly did not get out of the way and let people get on with it, and still hasn’t. Under the law, Gov. (the Hon.) “Wet” Blanco is still in complete charge of the rescue and cleanup effort, and the Feds are just there to lend a helping hand. When the troops screw up the General gets his head handed to him. It’s part of what he pays for the gold braid and the salutes. You got complaints, address ‘em to “Governor’s Mansion, Baton Rouge, LA 70806”—that’s who’s running this show.
As I said elsewhere, you Lefties are just a little too transparent. You want the precedent for arbitrary Federal override so that the next time there’s an abortion protest a Democrat President can send the National Guard to depose the Governor and arrest everybody except the fetus, who gets the death penalty. Not while I’m watching, thanks.
Regards,
Ric
tw: should. Gov. Blanco should either lead, follow, or get out of the f*ing road.
Boy, right there in the last paragraph is a frickin’ lie. In fact, if you read the CORRECTION on the top of the frickin’ page, you’d know that. So, if this is all sourced from the same LIAR, then the whole thing is suspect. Got any corroboration? Any others stringing the same tune who are willing to go in the record?
If you don’t, it’s just hearsay from a source that’s been shown to have already lied. But I guess that doesn’t matter to you.
Nice try Ric. Let’s just stick to your original attempt which I’ve shown to be a crock of shit. Want to show me where I’m wrong here?
The State of Emergency was declared and subsequently declared by Bush, which allows the pipeline to readied for release of funds, and allows the President to get federal help lined up (FEMA prestaging, etc). Which is precisely what happened. But declaring a State of Emergency doesn’t turn control over to the feds.
Christ, you’re like a little child.
Azael, the more frenzied you become the more crediblity you lose. The correction you refer to wasn’t extended to the part of the story concerning Blanco’s refusal to allow the president to Federalize the relief effort. Additonally Mayor Nagin himself confirms this conversation. And honestly, you’ve done nothing to place Ric’s post in doubt. Truly, the letter isn’t helping you. Explain instead how the Feds could have arrived in NO more quickly. Maybe you can find more solid ground there.
First, you completely ignored the point I just made regarding one of the foundation blocks of your entire house of cards. Fine, that’s typical of you so I guess I should get used to it.
Second, I don’t know what this obsession is about “turning control over to the feds”. I mean, it’s pretty darn bizarre. I think that in your minds, if total control wasn’t given to the feds, then they are held totally blameless for the results. This is just insane. What do you expect to happen. Blanco to start directing the federal troops?
Christ, you’re like a perfect demagogue.
From the Governor’s declaration of a state of Emergency:
Corvan, the more you comment, the sillier your arguments become. The entire source for the story is the same official. A highly placed, senior official who LIED about the declaration of emergency precisely to make Blanco look bad to buttress up the rest of the crap he/she was shoveling.
Now when a source lies to you, you better suspect the rest of the crap they’re pushing. It’s called journalism 101. So, if you don’t have any other sources for this hearsay, that’s all it is. And it’s hearsay from a known liar.
And would you please stop trying to change the subject? I mean, yes, that’s an interesting area of discussion, but quite frankly you’re shooting blanks in this one and I see no reason to rise to your bait.
courage!
Jeff, what’s your point? This is just proof that the Post (and Time’s) source is a big fat liar.
Really, what’s the point of that comment?
No, I didn’t ignore you Hal. The Declaration of a State of Emergency is not what you think it is. Read it. Go on. I outlined the part you need, but by all means read the whole thing.
As to the rest…
Uh, yes, the Governor is in control of the National Guard deployed in her state. So I do expect her to direct them. That’s her job. They are there to serve her.
Face it, Azael: The only demagogue here is you. You’ve made no points. And these aren’t negotiable points we’re bandying back and forth; they are matters of law and Constitutionality.
Thanks Mags. I’m glad to see the meme I injected is working precisely as planned.
I’m beginning to suspect Azael is retarded.
Wow Jeff, this is the best y’got? Great. She was reluctant to deploy them. Someone doing something wrong does not negate the incompetence of someone else.
Really, we’ve gone from lame to lamer. First it’s the defense that it was just a request for money. Then we go to a source that was lying through his/her teeth. Now we’re at the “see, she fucked up too” stage.
Yep. Adult level argumentation.
beginning? courage!
Yea Jeff, because it’s all about the argument with you. Keeping it above board. Polite, directed argumentation about the facts.
Your argument is based on vapor and so you have to resort to personal attacks.
Classy.
Azael,
You’re beginning to understand. The Governor is in control of the National Guard in her state. She is in control of the relief effort.
As far as the WAPO story goes, are your saying Nagin’s interview wiht CNN doesn’t count either? Are you saying that the Washington Post is taking part in a lie just to aid the Bush administration? That doesn’t seem plausible, does it?
And frankly your desperation to avoid laying out evidence of the Feds tardiness is matched only by your desperation to prop up an argument your own documentation refutes. Is there a reason you flee this subject?
well, it was till you showed up, oh well, COURAGE!
Azael, so far it is you who are the liar. Repeatedly.
One of the fundamental misstatements that you and your ilk keep making is to claim that Gov. Blanco “declared” a state of emergency and that was it.
This is really quite false. There is no such thing in modern practice as a simple “state of emergency”. States of emergency are declared with respect to specific statutes and invoke specific and often narrow powers, funding vehicles or specific orders. Today, it is simply never the case that a governor signs a single piece of paper that reads “State of Emergency” and is done with everyone invoking those three words to do whatever they want. That is why Gov. Blanco has issued several such declarations, some of them quite belatedly, each of which invoke specific and often narrow powers.
But Azael, you want to keep falsely repeating this as if it were just that simple. A simple lie on your part.
Why do I call this a lie and not ignorance? Because you don’t even deal with the fact that Blanco’s request for aid was solely for monetary aid. Blanco asked for Federal funding of state and local efforts in her aid request before the hurricane. Nothing more.
And that blatant misrepresentation on your part establishes that you, just like Gandhi who tried the same trick, are just another cheap liar.
Well, I thought I was trying to stay on topic so that you wouldn’t use that frick’n stick on me. But nooooooooo. I guess you’re just going to use any stick lying around.
Great. Never said Blanco was blameless. Never said that at all. But what I am saying is that your position that either a) it was simply a request for money or b) it wasn’t properly formatted in the right type is a load of crock.
Want to change the subject, fine.