How dare a Holocaust memorial display Jewish imagery!
An atheist group is agitating for the removal of the Star of David from a Holocaust memorial at the Ohio state house, reports the Columbus Dispatch.
The Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) objects to the memorial’s inclusion of the Jewish symbol on the grounds that “permitting one permanent sectarian and exclusionary religious symbol . . . would create the legal precedent, for instance, to place an equally large or larger permanent Latin cross on Capitol grounds.”
FFRF’s letter is odious anti-Semitism wrapped in banal phraseology all aimed to diminish and dilute the raison d’etre of Nazi obsession — the annihilation of a PEOPLE, not just a religion. Nazis didn’t care if one was an non-observant Jew or an atheist Jew. You were of the Jewish persuasion so you were slated for extermination.
Yes, the Nazis then expanded their cleansing to rid themselves of all sorts of undesirables — Catholics, gypsies, homosexuals, dissenters, and the less-than-genetically perfect — but it was the Jews who always remained their primary focus.
And in a disgusting bit of chutzpah, Nazi FFRF concludes that allowing the Star of David on the memorial would:
dishonor the truest protection our country has against a similar Holocaust on our shores: the precious constitutional principle separating religion from government.
Why yes, dear fellow American, the only thing that keeps you from grabbing your neighborhood Kosher butcher and shoving him in the nearest oven is the continued Bowdlerizing of the American public square of any whiff of faith.
This is not stupidity, but malice for all to see.
::::spit::::
Odd, “Freedom from Religion” isn’t in the 1st Amendment, but “Free Exercise Thereof” is.
There are anti theists and then there are atheists.
I think the FFRF are of the former.
Fuck ’em
Nothing quite says “Become a Jew” like a reminder of a couple thousand years of persecution, does it? Yep, real persuasive stuff the State of Ohio is rolling out there.
@page 127
-.As could be expected, they immedi- ately brought into play against the Charter a whole set of slanders, distortions, abuse, half-truths and absolute falsehoods which all represent the dismal range of their capacity. Ispeak from experience as one who has been a favourite target for their sort of behaviour for the past thirty years, and who could well lay claim to the laurels of seniority and worthy service. Though the powers that be may not know it, or rather, would sooner not know it, nay, cannot afford to know it (for where else would they find more obedient. unscrupu- lous and servile creatures), the media are the principal, albeit unintentional, creators and encouragers of opposition. since they are totally suspect and nobody believes them. People almost auto- matically take for gospel the opposite of what the papers say. Once. all-powerful, the media were capable of pointing the finger that condemned people to death. As they lost all credibility they also lost some of their power, and at the very least were obliged to change their methods, if not their ends. Nowadays, they do not directly fix the noose around people’s necks, but they do endeavour to destroy their honour and slay them with a hail of repeated slanders and lies,-
Havel et al
– What I want to know is where the fuck these scumbags get their funding. Who agrees to do business with them, etc., so I can boycott anyone and anything connected with these sorts of orgs.
– If they have accounts at a specific banking institution announce publickly you will no longer deal with that company and publish the reason loud and clear. Drive these bastards under financially.
@page 49
“In societies under the post-totalitarian system, all political life in the traditional sense has been eliminated. People have no opportunity to express themselves politically in public, let alone to organize politically. The gap that results is filled by ideological ritual. In such a situation, people’s interest in political matters naturally dwindles and independent political thought, in so far as it exists at all, is seen by the majority as unrealistic, far-fetched, a kind of self-indulgent game, hopelessly distant from their everyday concerns; something admirable, perhaps, but qui.te pointless, because it is on the one hand entirely utopian and on the other hand extraordinarily dangerous, in view of the unusual vigour with which any move in that direction is persecuted by the regime. Yet even in such societies, individuals and groups of people exist who do not abandon politics as a vocation and who, in one way or another, strive to think independently, to express themselves and in some cases even to organize politically, because that is a part of their attempt to live within the truth. The fact that these people exist and work is in itself immensely important and worthwhile. “
Silly non-conspiracy theorist. They get it from the people who have it: DA JOOOOOZ!
Once again groups of atheists that make me embarrassed to label myself as one. Don’t these people have anything better to do with their lives?
– This just in: “Amanda Bynes under 72 hour psychiatric observation after tring to set driveway on fire.” – Film at 11.
– In other news: Thats funny. I didn’t know Jeff was on vacation in Japan.
Mr. Saturn says July 24, 2013 at 1:55 am
Once again groups of atheists that make me embarrassed to label myself as one. Don’t these people have anything better to do with their lives?
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=50221#comments
It’s like a religion to them or something.
Can they prove that there is no God?
Or do they just want me to take that on faith?
An atheist group is agitating for the removal of the Star of David from a Holocaust memorial
Having been to the Holocaust museum in Israel, my first, second and every subsequent reaction is that this atheist group can eat a bowlful of dicks.
Ahhh, my favorite newsletter arrived just this morning. Timely, and on topic. What Is Religious Freedom?
I read with interest the comments in that earlier thread, Mormonism and/or/vs. Catholicism, two great religions but with widely differing methods for seeking to achieve a common goal…to get right with the divine, to reach out to God via widely differing protocols. There’s commonalities (we all pray at some point; agnostics and even atheists if they get stressed enough) and all have similar drives to serve God by exhibiting outward, identifiable morality (those who could care less about anything divine sometimes don’t). But, when any segmented religion’s tenets get challenged, that’s perceived as a threat, thus easily summoning contentiousness.
Overall, Christianity is a segmented as a millepede, each segment with it’s own top-down controller. I can only surmise that the results of that independence of movement, and the lack of a common direction, can be amusing to watch, from, say, a celestial platform (or from three platforms, given some segment’s beliefs).
That said, Christianity is, and always be, at odds vs. the Muslim faith. Islam is a much more rigorous and top-down-controlled faith (it’s hard to argue relative commitments with a group who require members to pray multiple times a day, and carry a rug about with them to make sure those prayers are noticeably performed).
Christianity as a culture, seeing the bigger picture despite the various segments, is losing vs. Islam. Big, because, time.
Of course, what these idiots fail to grasp is that the six pointed star was King David’s Coat of Arms. That is, it was apolitical symbol of the Family of David and hence, the Jewish Nation. It’s more a racial thing than religious. Even atheist Jews wear it.
Shermlaw
You’re right on the Family of David thing … but wrong if you think they have failed to grasp that.
They are like the anti-Israel people who argue that when one uses the phrase “anti-Semite” it applies to Arabs, too, since they are “Semites”.
Patrick Chester says July 23, 2013 at 10:57 pm
Odd, “Freedom from Religion” isn’t in the 1st Amendment, but “Free Exercise Thereof” is.
This is always my point. If these clowns want to prevent public displays of religion, the standard ought to be that the goal or better yet, result of the display is a state-established religion. Unless and until that standard is met, they are welcome to engage in fruitless and embarrassing activities involving ropes and urination, expectoration in an unfavorable wind direction, and themselves and their own genitalia.
I can’t help but wonder what the Establishment Clause fascists think is the “establishment” end goal of displaying something revered by every dang-blasted Christian and Jew in the world — the Ten Commandments — on public property. Which particular CHURCH is being ESTABLISHED with such a display? United Methodists? LDS? Conservative Judaism?
Just once I’d like to hear a judge pose that question. “Be specific! The taxpayers of this county are paying for you to whine about church-establishment theories, so give them their money’s worth!”
Behavior like this reminds me that I need to take a deep breath and note that morally and socially-retarded atheism like Barker’s is not the norm among the atheists I know in the flesh.
He’s actually recorded musical albums about his atheism–creating a veritable hymnal of anti-theism.
He may have lost his fundamentalist faith, but not the in-your-face earnest carnival-barking assholery that went with it. The adage “Scratch an atheist, find a fundamentalist” fits him to a “T.”
There’s an freakishly devious a-historical component to the FFRF position as well, though it’s difficult to get one’s hands on with precision in a blog comment (barring the necessary length of analysis). As a for instance, the FFRF claims (without explanation) that Hitler was a Roman Catholic, as though he had acted out of Roman Catholic principle. But really? (I mean it’s nonsense.) Is the FFRF in any way qualified to make this claim? And so on with many other assertions in their letter to the Chairman, piling insulting absurdities upon ghastly absurdities.
Darleen, my point was that the Star of David is as much political/racial as religious, if not moreso the former. Contrast the Christian cross, which, while having a political dimension years ago, is pretty much solely a religious symbol, its appearance on various European flags notwithstanding. I agree that Anti-semitism is one underlying factor here, but having an atheist organization leading the charge under these circumstances is interesting to me.
sdferr, I would note, among certain Christian denominations, there is a doctrine known as “Replacement Theology,” which holds that once Christianity appeared, God’s promises to the Jewish Nation were transferred to the Church. That is, the Church “replaced” the Jewish People as God’s Chosen. Contrast the Dispensationist view which holds that God does not break His Promises and the Jewish People are still numero uno to Him. That’s why most Dispensationalist Evangelicals are so pro-Israel. From a purely historical perspective, I think the variants of Replacement Theology, which have been around since early Church history have provided a theological prop for the periodic waves of Antisemitism in European History.
Anecdote: I once had a few beers in Israel with the former Chief Medic for the IDF. I made a comment about his being thankful for American F-16s which had been recently delivered. His response: “I’m more thankful for American Dispensationalists.” That’s the first time I heard that term.
The best thing about freedom of speech is that it allows idiots like this to be easily identified.
That’s an unusual belief, Shermlaw. I haven’t ever encountered that one.
See Hoffer’s The True Believer.
leigh, it’s not unusual. Virtually all Christian denominations hold one view or the other, although those doctrines are not at the front of Christian consciousness. It raises its head when Progs suggest that dispensationalists support Israel and the Jews to bring about the Rapture or some silliness like that, or when Pope Benedict addressed a subset of the discussion when he issued a Bull absolving the Jews from killing Christ. Harry Truman, who came from a conservative Baptist/Dispensationist background, recognized Israel in 1948 against the advice of most of the DC worthies. Whether his background contributed to his decision, we of course do not know, but it’s interesting to ponder. See, also this.
Thanks, Shermlaw. I see the World Council of Churches is not recognized by the Catholic church. I assume that is why I have never heard about this belief. It’s a Protestant thing.
– Shermlaw. I’ve often wondered how the first and second covenents can be consoled against dispensationism. Seems a bit of a dichatomy, and severely confused to try to mix the view points when both the living (stated) and implied (body) covenents are considered. YMMV
You would think the left would be blaming ‘separation of church and state’ on the Right by now, due to its racists, bigoted, Democrat party origins.
Leigh, check this. I cannot speak to its accuracy regarding Catholic theology inasmuch as my people were Huguenots. Nonetheless, I’m a giver.
Thanks, Shermlaw. That’s a nice piece and speaks to what I have learned as a Catholic.
bbh, I could tell you how they’re reconciled, but then I’d have to kill you.
Actually, the reconciliation would take more space than we’re allowed on these comments, but the explanation is eschatological.
Protein Wisdom: Come for the blog posts; stay for the Bible Study.
bbh, I could tell you how they’re reconciled, but then I’d have to kill you.
– Yeah, well I get that a lot. I’m such a freaking outlaw and trouble maker. OTOH I don’t own any shag rugs, so I’ve got that going for me. (see next thread).
Shermlaw, could you explain it through a funny story? I love eschatological humor.
What’s brown and sits on a piano bench?
A well-tanned Mozart in a UPS uniform?
Come on, squid. Enquiring minds want to know.
Squid says July 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm
What’s brown and sits on a piano bench?
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Beethovens poop?
Beethoven’s #2!
Shermlaw, yep, that is straight up what my mom taught me as a wee child. “Jacob have I loved,” and all that. Be good to Jews, be good to Israel, or God will smite you. I think it’s a good lesson.
Beethoven’s T’urd?
Dammit, Red wins. I just know it.