The recent spate of shootings (and attendant manufactured “fear” over “assault weapons” and “high-capacity mags” promoted by the left and the media), the UN small arms treaty rumblings, Obama’s charge the we search our souls with respect to gun violence, Schumer’s attempt to plant gun control measures in various forms of legislation — all of this conspired to convince me I probably shouldn’t wait to pick up the SCAR Heavy. A bird in hand and all that, you see.
So I charged the fucker. I figure if the dollar collapses I won’t have to pay it back anyway. And if it doesn’t, I can get it paid off in a couple three months.
And so to borrow from underrated 80s regional super band, the Hooters, “all you zombies hide your faces.” Because I aim not to mess around should the proverbial shit hit the proverbial fan.
— Which reminds me, anybody have any sight recommendations for such a versatile rifle? I was thinking maybe an EOTech / Aimpoint and a magnifier, or maybe an ACOG. But that’s down the road a bit.
Quite a bit down the road, for those scopes.
I’m tempted to shoot back with an underrated 80s regional super band quote of my own, but…
And we danced. Like a wave on the ocean…
Mama’s little baby likes fear and torture,
Mama’s little baby likes violent sex!
She thinks she’s Queen Victoria,
Ride the pony express!
(Ah, Cincinnati. White-bread, ultra-conservative heartland of Ohio’s alpine ski resort region!)
I’ve been wading through the multitude of scope/sight options, price ranges, etc and just settled on (after having some very good advice imparted) the Aimpoint T-1. Spendy, but worth it, and you can’t find a bad review on it. The H-1 is a few bucks cheaper and basically the same sight minus night vision compatibility and some water resistance, but what’s a few more bucks when you’re already in that deep?
Whoever said freedom isn’t free wasn’t kidding. It ain’t even cheap.
Shame on you for not buying American.
/sarc
Don’t forget to pick up some extra magazines soon.
Nervous Night
wasis a damn fine album. And I’m not just saying so because I grew up listening to Philly radio. Rob & Eric also did Joan Osborne’s Relish, which is damn fine in its own right.The physics geek in me would love to take apart some sights to see how all the lenses work together, but that’s about the extent of the help I can offer in that regard.
I’m still hoarding cash for my next firearm purchase. It’s one thing for ATF to know I’ve bought a gun, but the credit card industry!?
Fuck that noise.
My recommendation would be to get comfortable with the iron sights while you’re deciding what you want as far as scopes/tactical sights go.
Yeah, I was able to pick up and hold a couple of these at the gun show this weekend. Iron sights are actually quite good and I’ll be using them for the most part early on. Twitter pal just recommended a Burris in 556 @ about $300 and told me to just do the adjustments manually for the 762.
I hear you, McGehee. But I really am frightened that the options may dwindle here soon. Very soon.
cranky —
Picked up 3 extra 20 round mags today for $39 each, free shipping, no tax. While that lasts.
That’s a good price on the magazines. Gunbroker has them going for $50.
Jay Zeus! I just saw the msrp of $2,900 in this review.
For that kind of money, you could have gotten yourself a Mini-30 and and SR-556 for the Missus. Or a Mini-30 and and Mini-14 and still have nearly a $1000 for ammo.
I s’pose you think you need a Porsche for your bug-out vehicle —for teh handling and teh performanz!
/sarc
The thing with the scope is that by its nature, you’re necessarily limiting your field of view when using it to what’s in the scope. I was looking at a Burris, a Millet and I actually bid on a Bushnell Elite. But in a high stress/freak out situation, the red dot allows super easy sighting and the ability to use all of your vision while sighting a given target. That was some of the really good advice I got and the only argument I could come up with is that you don’t have the long distance capability you do with a good scope. But then, magnifier. Which is down the road.
MSRP went up to $3400.
I got it for less. And like I’ve been saying, this is my one rifle (for now) solution to just about anything.
Hell, that’s practically one mini-30 and two mini-14s.
(I did see in the comments to the review I linked that the SCAR 17 is the “90% solution to 100% of problems.)
I can’t recommend the ACOG. Every time I looked through one, I ended up with a 4 hour erection and a serious consideration of turning to a life of crime to get one.
Jeff, did you have an affordable second choice? Care to summarize the advice you’ve gleaned on this class of weapon?
First rule (for individuals) in a recession/depression: borrow, borrow, borrow!
Chances are you won’t have to pay it back, and even if you do, it’ll be in inflated dollars.
My mother-in-law has asked what kind of gun I think would be good for her, and she never had anything to do with guns, ever. At this point it’s still pretty general because she’d have to try shooting whatever I suggest, to be sure she can handle it. But she was very much in agreement with the three guidelines I offered her up front:
1. Have a gun.
2. Have a gun you can use safely and with full confidence.
3. HAVE YOUR GUN.
Have you checked out the regulations in a certain wet state on the Pacific Ocean yet?
…we’ll move on to “(4) Have several guns” and the rest later.
But seriously, if it isn’t too late to reconsider, you can buy four or five good rifles/shotguns for that price, and maybe another sidearm while your at it.
Good to go for certain states.
Pablo —
Lots of people are mounting red dots or holographic reflex sights on their scopes.
Also, the review from TTAG is an outlier.
Yeah, straddling an ACOG like this would be optimal, but it’s way out of my range at the moment.
I sure hope you are going to heavily insure this arsenal of yours. We had ours valued a while back for insurance and it was formidable to even think about replacing all of it on our own.
Most of the rifles in this class of modular 308 with short stroke piston were comparably priced. I looked at the LWRC REPR, for instance. Second choice was something along the lines of a SOCOM 16.
Asking around among my military / SF friends — and then speaking to people at the last couple guns shows (who didn’t have any to sell, mind you) — I came away convinced that I’d made the right all around choice, and that the extra $700-$800 is worth it. Just means I’ll have to put off buying a scope and sighting system for a while.
As the comments make clear.
Still, I agree with charlesaustin. Not that I’m unsympathetic to wanting to be the kid who has the coolest toy on the block. There’s something to be said for not only being able to do things right, but doing them in style.
Also looked at the DPMS LR 308.
The value we place on different things is sorta wacky. I don’t have a rifle that costs a third this much but I’d be embarrassed to admit how much my grill or some of my stereo components cost. I justified those purchases by thinking I’d use them all the time and I reckon that’s a good way to think about this particular rifle as well now that you have it.
Have fun (lots and lots of fun) at the range!
Heh. It’s really not that, Ernst (and charles) — though as I told Robb Allen, I do like the sexy factor.
Honestly, though, my thinking was just what I said it was: I have a baby, an eight-year-old, and a wife. I’m pretty strong physically, but if I can only grab one rifle to bug out with — one that can be used in a variety of situations and fulfills a variety of needs, from close quarter to reach-out-and-touch-that-bull-moose-and-we’ll-have-steaks-for-months! — this was the one that I felt best matched those needs.
Plus I’ll look like Rambo!
Also: if it ever comes down to anarchy and societal collapse, I’m going to use my super rifle to take away your less super ones. But don’t worry, if you can cook or get stains out of white jeans, you can stay in my compound.
Insert wickedly smiley emoticon here.
Hopefully Obama fails, the currency holds, and I have plenty of time left to build up a nice assortment of cheaper rifles. And can dig out a concrete survival shed.
Jeff, does this mean you’ll accept ammo in lie of cash?
I’ll put my sub MOA bolt gun up against your SCAR any day.
But that’s okay, you can do perimeter duty in MY compound.
For the kids.
*lieu
Heh, I’ll be up in a tree stand with my bow chuckling at the city folk making a racket with their boom sticks.
Hey, I just looked at youtube for that Hooters’ song. Never heard it before but the video immediately made me think of that part in the MacGruber movie where he plays saxophone in the factory during the montage.
Burris and Weaver both make middle priced value-for-money scopes. Put “Tactical” in front of it, though, and expect to pay over a grand. Anyone have any experience with these IOR scopes? I know they’re Romanian, but the glass is German, and that’s a pretty good price.
And anyone who can’t cope with a reciprocating charging handle should really get some more training, stat. They’ve been around as long as semi-auto rifles.
de gustibus and all that, Jeff.
But I think you could have accomplished everything you wanted to with a Mini 30 and, some aftermarket modifications later, still had your wife just as nervous yet strangely aroused.
(And whom amongst us doesn’t want that?)
He said, tongue-in-cheek.
Just picked up one of these: http://tinyurl.com/bstedzx
I’m looking forward to installation and sighting in.
hmm, screwed that up.
One more time: http://tinyurl.com/borc8uy
Ammo?
Oh, fuck. Forgot about that.
Just don’t miss, Blake!
Well, duct tape a knife on the muzzle, Jeff, and you’ve a dandy hand to hand weapon. Also doubles as a club.
However, Jeff, I have ammo for my rifle. Lots of ammo.
You?
bwahahahaha
I’m probably going to pick up one of these this fall.
I’ve got 3 cheap busted 3-9×40 scopes, bh. Be nice to have a Leupold.
One of my dreams has been to be able to practice shooting on my own land. Having recently become part owner of almost ten acres with some steep terrain, I’m wondering how hard it’ll be to convince the neighbors not to call the sheriff every weekend.
The co-owners won’t be a problem; they’ll enjoy it.
Yeah, a friend of mine keeps saying positive things about his and I can’t find an negative review, sw, so I figure I’ll get one and put it on the Browning 30-06.
Hope the deer are finding some fattening things to eat this summer.
I hear ya, McGehee. So we’ve got 40 acres to play on, about an hour away. Any closer and the money was ridiculous. If it didn’t make for such a long commute we’d move out there and be able to walk out in our backyard and shoot. For now, at least it’s available for a bug-out location.
Bonus is that having a “farm” is a good excuse to buy stuff like tractors, of which we only have four at the moment (not counting lawn mowers).
I’ve been hunting for land for years, and it’s only recently that some worthwhile-looking places have come onto the market.
Most, however, have been stripped of all their copper. One place — great-looking house, wonderful lay of the land — had water damage from the stripping.
I keep trying to convince myself to buy the RFB from Keltec. I have no idea if it’s any good but I look at it and I want it. Yeah, the long 32″ barreled “target”version with the flash hider on the end.
And yeah, I know that bullpups pose loading “while planted” problems and all that.
It’s a 7.62 nato of course.
Here’s one with a scope and what looks like a supressor on it.
http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/ourguns/gallery/b_70bf4b29b7d7219fe295905591c4adddRFB1.jpg
Friend of mine works here. They make some extremely nice rifles. The looks alone would make the Lefties shiite their panties:
http://www.jprifles.com/index.php
We’ll have the advantage of living there, it’s just that there are quite a few other houses around, two of them on very small plots and one of those hosting a small tricycle-motor infestation from what we’re told.
It’s entirely possible the kids and their parents will think it’s cool to be able to come down to the pond and watch us old rednecks shoot off our guns, but I wouldn’t bet almost ten acres on it.
Besides, they might worry we’ll scare off the Bigfoot.
Poor bastard has to sit around and custom build these things all day. They have an optics section there, too.
Aw, damn.
I’ve got a Leupold VX-2 3-9×40 on a .338 wildcat and it’s held up fine for years under that brutal recoil. Leupold makes some good stuff for not a lot of scratch. On a fighting rifle one of their VX-2 1-4x 20 scopes is dandy. Dial it down to 1x for fast shots with both eyes open and no restriction on your field of view. Dial it up to 4x for shots out past where you can hit anything without a range finder. Only good for daylight to dusk though.
For a cheap ‘shoot ’til you can’t see’ sight I’d look to see if you can’t find a tritium front sight blade for your existing irons. I couldn’t find one on a brief google search, but I’d be surprised if someone doesn’t make one. Tritium sights are great right down to the point where you can’t see the target well enough to identify it (if you can’t identify your target you shouldn’t be shooting!) and tritium irons are way cheaper than most any decent red dot. Don’t need batteries either — I’m leary of trusting my life to anything that needs batteries, they tend to fail just when you need them worst. The only down side to tritium is that the half-life is fairly short and you’ve got to replace them every 10 years or so or they’ll get dim on you.
At any rate, Bravo Sir! Any gun is better than no gun at all, and the best gun is the one you like and feel confident with. I liked and felt confident with my heavy-barrel 7.62 bolt gun with 4-12 scope — nice to shoot the bad guy so far away that he can’t shoot back(!) — before some unredeemable bastage broke in and stole it. Took all the rest of my guns too.
Lotta that goin’ around these days.
Check the state laws. Usually, if you’re outside town limits, no rounds leave your property, you’re not shooting TOWARDS anyone or thing or across roads, the noise is kept to a reasonable limit and times of day, you’ll be OK.
IANAL, YMMV. I’ve only looked at the Ohio and Kentucky laws, so…
Anybody got an opinion on the .450 Bushmaster. It seem I’ve got a bad case of AR envy, and I find myself eyeing the Remington R-15.
I must be overcompensating for some kind of inadequacy.
The ammo is expensive and it’s not a popular cartridge. So, if you get it you’ll want to really stock up on ammo if it’s a SHTF gun.
Ammo is pricey and not easy to come by with only 2 companies making it. I’m sure it packs a wallop and I wouldn’t mind having one but when the zombie apocalypse hits I want something easier to keep fed.
Or, what cranky-d said.
Mostly I’m giving myself a bit of a hard time after ribbing Jeff all afternoon.
The guy’s probably eating waffles and sipping a Stella Artois right now.
It seems like overkill, don’it? I’m sure Inspector Callahan would like to have one to go along with his .44 mag. Automag. Can’t leave those fingerprints intact!
If I were inclined toward behavior that aggravates the government, I’d be looking into a 3D printer. I figure it’s only a matter of time until they come up with the companion 3D scanner and at that point they can kiss any hope of gun control goodbye.
Of course that would force the hoplophobes to shift their focus to the ammunition….
They have to leave that alone For Teh Children™, Swen.
Great story Pablo. Ain’t science wunnerful?
Also, a 3D printer capable of printing in various metals would be far too useful for making one-off machine tools, odd spare parts, and such to restrict them. I suspect it’s only a matter of time until every machine shop has one. And a good time will be had by all! :)
That is a great story, Pablo. Thanks for sharing it.
One problem is getting the metal to adhere easily. Plastic has a low melting point, so building up layers is fairly easy. Not only that, but many metal parts, like gun parts, are created from forgings and have special heat treatments an the like. I doubt a metal printer could duplicate that.
Plastic Guns?!?!
That’s like Sarah Brady’s worst nightmare!
Buy Guns.
Buy Magazines.
Buy Ammo.
Ammo: The new Gold.
(p.s. if Obama gets reelected ammo/gun sales will skyrocket so get yours NOW.)
Just to restart the conversation: If I was going to start rebuilding a gun collection (after that unfortunate hurricane/tornado/break-up/divorce/accident-induced memory loss/home burglary/financial setback resulting in trip to pawn broker)
I might think about starting with a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle
But then, I don’ know nothing about guns, so I’m easily influenced by marketing slogans like Beware the man with one gun, for he probably knows how to use it.
And also I have a hard-on for Ruger like Jeff does for Belgian hardware.
Remington too, but then I’m fickle like that.
I need a freakin’ sling now, too, don’t I?
As sights go, I think I’ve hit on a nice most-purpose: Trijicon TR-24, which looks to be effective in close situations and out to a couple hundred yards. Doesn’t have a compensator for bullet drop-off, but at that range I should be okay without it, shooting 7.62.
Agree? Disagree?
Also, if anybody has a go-to place for surplus ammo in this caliber, let me know?
I’m guessing you’ll probably not want just any ol’ sling.
Probably a two point set up. Will avoid hooking it on the folding butt stock. Probably something padded, with maybe a wire or swivel hook?
Both those questions about the scope and the sling I have no idea about because you’re thinking of this rifle differently than I’ve ever shot them.
Don’t know what sort of sling is used in closer quarters or if you’d even use one. I grew up using both the hasty and the loop sling as stabilizing aids from all shooting positions. I’d recommend doing the same (when I have the time I’ll almost always unclip and slip through the loop) but that doesn’t require more than $20 bucks of nylon webbing.
Worthwhile video here but you can see why I’m not sure if that’s how you’re thinking about a sling.
Again, same with the scope. If you want to quickly fire at things halfway close to you that’s just a different thing than shooting accurately at range.
I think I shall sell off the rifle and become a spoken word poet.
You’ll have far more fun with the rifle.
I assume. Maybe spoken word poets have a pretty sweet deal going.
When Ragnarok comes, spoken word poets won’t get to look like Rambo, or be King of the Compound. Nor will they get to walk the perimeter of the King’s compound —for the children (that the king is going to beget on the women who used to be their wives).
Hell, they won’t even get to play nanny to those children.
Better keep the rifle.
(You can always club somebody over the head with it in order to get a better one!)
Some spoken-word poets have been declared lethal weapons.
On Vogsphere.
Ernst, just admit it, if it goes bang! and you can hit the target with it, you’re interested.
Not true! I was cured of my firearms fetish by the helpful, caring folks of Miniluv.
I know now that arms are for hugging, that violence is never the answer, that you’re more likely to kill-hurt/be killed-be hurt by your own weapon than by a stranger’s,
and that David Frum is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human-being that I know (of).
Having had some time to reflect, I think I’ve changed my mind about whether or not Jeff should sell his rifle.
Since a localized panic-induced outbreak of civil unrest and/or disorder is a more likely SHTF scenario than a zombie outbreak, and since local law enforcement’s first instinct is going to be round up all the guns they can lay their hands on (think New Orleans)…
I think Jeff should keep his rifle for about a month before he sells it to a friend or relative who just happens to live out of state. Ideally, his buyer should give him a hand-written receipt.
Ernst, so, was the the Frumster instrumental in changing your outlook on firearms?
Primers and powder are the bottlenecks to having ammo. Brass is reusable and bullets can be cast.
And.
FSM is just progressives efficiently packaging the essence of their beliefs for all to see.
I want to update everyone one the 7.62×51 vs .308 thingy I brought up a while ago. Springfield says not to shoot anything but actual mil-spec 7.62×51 in its rifles, as does Fulton Armory for their M14 (or at least they did at one point). However, a guy who I talked to recently has two M1As, and has shot regular .308 with no problems. When he hand-loads, he does it to 7.62×51 specs of course.
So, while the manufacturer has one opinion, it may very well be that there isn’t a problem in that direction.
On the other hand, the pressure in a 7.62×51 can be higher than a .308, so one should still obey the restriction of not shooting 7.62×51 in a rifle designed for .308 only. From what I’ve seen, most AR-type .308s can also chamber the 7.62×51, but check to be sure.
You know what, I could be wrong on which one has the higher pressure. I give up.
Everyone who cares should research it. I just wanted to retract my assertion from months ago about which round you can shoot where.
I can’t remember Blake. I can’t remember much of anything about David Frum, the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human-being I know (of).
cranky-d, it could be that the manufacturer’s opinion is really the opinion of the legal department.
cranky, I’ve seen it both ways, that military rifles operate at lower chamber pressures than the civilian .308 and vice versa. I do believe there is a slight difference in the head spacing between the two rounds.
From everything I’ve read, basically it boiled down to: For the most part, it is safe to shoot 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester in civilian firearms and military firearms, providing, of course, the firearms in question are of recent vintage and in good repair.
For what it’s worth.
One of those lower pressure loadings, here.
One thing I have found out is that mil-spec ammo has thicker cases, which means they can handle expansion stress more. Also, mil-spec chambers have different (sloppier, if you will) head spacing. This makes sense for a military gun in which it’s very important for it to cycle reliably using ammo manufactured by many different companies.
My concerns are really with the M14/M1A, as those particular guns have issues others don’t. For most other rifles I probably wouldn’t worry too much.
If the brass is thicker in the 7.62×51 then reloads would have to be done based on data for that case as it’s internal volume would be less and the powder charge would have to be different. Also it seems from the data there that the neck of the 7.62 has a slightly larger diameter which would also suggest that the case is thicker.
Cranky-d is right and first as he usually is.