About halfway through, he tackles the “Hitler was a Christian so…” meme. Toward the end about the role of the religious in the public square.
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“Hitler was a Christian so…”
So what? Hitler was a vegetarian, too and he supposedly loved his dog.
Obama loves dog too, you know.
The Nazis were huge animal-rights activists who eschewed scientific experimentation on animals.
So the did it on Jews.
hitler was an anti-smoking nazi
So he wasn’t a Christian, that’s what. Christianity was just another Jewish conspiracy to keep the Aryan man down.
Christianity was just another Jewish conspiracy to keep the Aryan man down.
Heh.
– The Left should dial back all that Hitler talk, lest people might recall Adolph was the head of the National Socialist party.
hitler was a gaia loving nazi
I have always wandered what we’d classify Hitler as. Teutonic pagan?
hitler was a muslim loving nazi
– I think the old term was Hun.
Satanist couple: Theft of ‘VOTE SATAN’ sign is hate crime
– There actually was a Muslim corp in His SS army.
– They fought, and got their brdouin asses kicked, with Rommels Panzer divisions in the North African campaign.
– The Arabs should really try a different hobby, they don’t do well in wars. But I guess when you’re running with a 5th grade education it takes awhile for things to sink in.
he’s such a liar I know for a fact there’s at least eleven
hitler was a big gov’t nazi
– There actually was a Muslim corp in His SS army.
the plo’s arafat says hi uncle
hitler was a big union guy nazi
Not since the 7th century, it would seem.
The thing I think with Arabs is, they are still largely motivated by their personal code of honor, and don’t necessarily recognize national borders imposed by the west after WWII.
Underestimate at your own risk. They repelled the USSR, at the height of their power, from Afghanistan , and have been giving us a run for our money for ten years, despite the government supposedly working with us. I, for one, don’t see our victory over Arab Islamism as a sure thing in the slightest. In fact, they have strengths that I find deeply unsettling. A house NOT divided against itself, for one.
I would guess atheist myself, but I haven’t spent any time looking into it. Himmler, I know was into all that ne0-pagan shit.
Afghans ain’t Arabs.
Six days, Bitch. Allah ain’t shit.
That too. Earth’s dingleberries know its anus better than anyone. Thus, Afghanistan.
Hitler and his inner circle were all big on the Occult and astrology. So, yeah pagans.
Afghanis are caucasians, aren’t they?
and don’t necessarily recognize national borders imposed by the west after WWII.
wiki
The treaties resulted from the big diplomatic congress,[4][5] thereby initiating a new system of political order in central Europe, later called Westphalian sovereignty, based upon the concept of a sovereign state governed by a sovereign and establishing a prejudice in international affairs against interference in another nation’s domestic business. The treaty not only signalled the end of the perennial, destructive wars that had ravaged Europe, it also represented the triumph of sovereignty over empire, of national rule over the personal writ of the Habsburgs.
Can’t say I’ve done any looking into the matter either so I suppose drug-addled, bitter atheist and some form of Aryan pagan both fit.
Maybe it’s both. By passion he was all mysticism and Wagner but at the core he was just a cranked up nihilist.
The ones decended from Alexander’s Macedonians are.
Afghans ain’t Arabs.
Afghanistan in the 1950s and 60s
A cranky Nietzsche fan always reaching for ubermensch and having to settle for whacked out death cultist, bh? Sounds about right.
leigh and bh make their participation grade for the pro-seminar
Danke, mein Herr.
Add in some amphetamine psychosis and I figure that’s Hitler.
Allah Akbar! Whatever. Iranians are Persian, so we can cross them off the list too I guess.
Bottom line, the middle east is where it’s going to come apart. It’ll have global impact.
For 7th century savages inept at war, they’ve sure been a distraction…
I’d toss in satanic possession myself. But that’s the kind of thing you say when you no longer give a shit about making your participation grade.
I’d don’t think anyone is disagreeing about the ME coming apart, Lee. I’m concerned about the sub-continent of India and Pakistan crossing swords with their nukes, too.
Arabs are inept at war. Turks and Persians used to be pretty good at it.
Of course, that was mostly before the gunpowder revolution and the rediscovery of classical military manuals.
Also, from what I’ve understood leigh is right, Hitler was into the occult.
Any ties to Christ were comparable to Obama’s… self-referential only.
Even he didn’t add halos to all his pictures though…
At the risk of taking this to a stranger place than offering clinical write-ups of Hitler, I’ll say that my hesitation towards offering demonic possession as a contributing factor (beyond not being sure it’s possible) is that I think humans have the capacity to act like that. I think there was understanding and cognition involved. That’s worse in my mind than being the devil’s remote control toy.
In related news, I find it strange to call evil actions inhuman. Nah, humans have a great capacity for evil action.
Talking Heads This Must Be the Place
There are probably many programs devoted to Hitler’s obsessions available on the History Channel. Or there used to be. It was all Hitler, all the time for ages.
Bh, you stay away from that clinical stuff, mister. CBT is where it’s at.
I completely agree that humans have the capacity for the worst evil. That’s not incompatible with the diabolical, however. Indeed, it would seem a necessary precondition.
Mostly I threw that out there as a word play on my earlier (not intended that way, but understandably) presumptuous “make the grade” comment. It’s a theological argument rather than an historical or philosophical one.
OK Ernst, inept. Why has the greatest power in the history of the world been fighting them since ’91 then?
And won NOTHING. In fact, we’re worse off then we were when H. Bush rescued Kuwait. Things have only worsened since the Marine barracks were bombed in Libya when Reagan was in office.
War is more than set piece maneuvers, and our own backwoods colonials kicked the ass of the greatest military in the world.
All I’m saying, don’t get cocky…
Bruce Springsteen – BORN IN THE USA – East Berlin, 1988
By passion he was all mysticism and Wagner but at the core he was just a cranked up nihilist.
“Psychopath” does it for me.
I think humans have the capacity to act like that.
Most definitely yes. Furthermore, there’s a difference between being possessed (the demon has control) and being all in league with satanic forces (a deliberate decision to go there).
I find it strange to call evil actions inhuman.
Inhumane? Append the E and it’s a whole different word.
Lee, you’ve read your Victor Davis Hanson, right?
Just because we’ve chosen to fight like S. Morgenstern’s Fezzik, wanting our adversaries to feel that they’re doing well, doesn’t mean that they’re not inept.
As for Islam’s bloody borders, always remember how sexually messed up these people are. Boys are regularly buggered (it’s OK until they hit puberty, because they’re essentially girls until the voice drops). When on the down-low the pitcher retains his manhood whereas the catcher is now a vile homo. It’s OK to do your wife’s cadaver up to six hours after death. Going after the livestock is OK as long as you do the females.
Not to mention the belief that women are by nature evil seductresses who are in league with Shaitan to trip up naturally virtuous men, and so the only way a woman gets to paradise is by being obedient to men.
Sexually abused people don’t function well in the first place, so when you have a whole society that has countenanced it for centuries, you’re not going to get lots of rational behavior, neither in war or politics.
May the God of Abraham break the back of Islam, if only to spare their children the humiliation of abuse.
That’s not strictly true.
Sexually abused people don’t function well in the first place, so when you have a whole society that has countenanced it for centuries, you’re not going to get lots of rational behavior, neither in war or politics.
ax self proclaimed victim andeson cooper
Doesn’t inhuman work? Inhumane seems unnecessary even if popular.
Inept seems a subjective thing under the circumstances.
There is no army in the world that can stand against us. We have the biggest and baddest military in history.
Yet we were run out of Somalia, the World Trade Center fell, and we’ve been bled literally and figuratively for 10 years by these 7th century warriors, for no appreciative gain.
We, with superior forces in every way, grow weaker, while they hold and grow stronger than they were. Doesn’t sound like the definition of inept to me
Seems kinda like calling Obama Inept.
While he has accomplished more for HIS vision for America than just about any other.
Seems kinda like calling Obama Inept
That’s Hewitt, again. Can’t bring himself to impugn Obama’s character further than saying he’s an Alinskyite.
And O’Reilly won’t call him a Marxist.
What will it take, boys? Jackboots and gulags?
Why would they need those when Big Mother’s loving embrace will get them the power they want?
I think there’s a difference between being run out and running, myself.
I do appreciate the point about calling Obama inept, though.
Personally, I think Obama is very good at accomplishing his goals, the great ones always make it look easy and effortless, and he’s the biggest threat to the union since general Lee. It ain’t about character, it’s about ideology.
Well, like I said, there’s more involved in war than military maneuvers.
Also, for clarification, my point about Arabs not doing well since the 7th century was merely to point out that in a period of approximately 50 years, the Arabs first overthrew one empire (Sassanian Persia) and then damn near overthrew a second (the Eastern Roman or Byzantine Empire), when they did very well indeed. But it’s been largely down hill for the Arabs since then. At least as far as their role in the Ummah is concerned, were they’ve been supplanted by the Turks. First the Seljuks, and later the Ottomans.
The spread of Wahhabism (sp?) has more to do with oil money than Arab arms.
Agreed. But it’s significant that the determination of the outcome is entirely one-sided, don’t you think?
It’s over when we say it’s over, regardless of whether that means we’ve won or that we’ve quit, and largely irrespective of what our enemies do.
We can sorta view the gap between these two views as the intrinsic worth of will/fortitude.
And cultural confidence, political cohesion, etc.
Got a smartish undergrad (or dumbish grad) link for the Sassanid empire, Ernst? I’ll admit I’m completely ignorant here.
Uh-huh. Good luck with that.
If that was the case general Schwarzcopf should have declared it over 20 years ago.
Those people are no more going to declare it over than Obama is going to say he’s moved the country far enough left. Or a feminist is going to say women make enough money. Or the gay movement is satisfied with civil unions.
It’ll be over for them when the world is properly divided into believers and the dead, not before.
I’m accustomed to looking at Persia from the Roman side of the Euphrates, bh, so all I have off the top of my head is this, monograph. —which assumes a high level of knowledge. So instead I think I’ll steer you towards the relevant chapters in Pagden.
Cheers.
As in thanks.
You’re kind of missing my point Lee. We did say it was over. Colin Powell told Bush to end it because the “Highway of Death” made us look bad We chose the suboptimal indefinite conclusion
Since Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we’re like Sean Thornton. We won’t fight unless we’re mad enough to kill (i.e. nuke) because we’re afraid of our own strength.
(Granted, it’s not an exact analogy…..)
I must be.
My point was, dismissing Arabs as inept is a pretty fucking dangerous leap of sanity.
Especially when looking at our own track record over the last 60 years.
Two thoughts. First, the Japanese were fanatical militarists who’d rather die than surrender.
Until we killed enough of them.
Second, the Jews were the Islamists of the Ancient World. Read Josephus if you don’t believe me. Or better yet, P.J. O’Rourke, who made this point in All the Trouble in the World (I believe) —he’s funnier (and shorter too). Destroying Mecca would probably have the same effect on Islam as the burning of Temple had on Judaism.
I think MacArthur may have taken the last set of American balls to his grave.
I’m missing your point about ancient Jews also. It is late… ;-P
No one is going to nuke Mecca.
I did say that our ineptitude doesn’t change the fact that they’re also inept, didn’t I?
And all I mean by inept is that it is militarily inept. As in, it’s presently inconcievable that an arab army could decisively defeat an American army. I don’t think the Arabs have won a decisive victory in 1300 years.
Which is not to say that Muslims haven’t won decisive victories in that time. Because they have.
Granted, we’re not exactly running upt the score lately ourselves, as you rightly pointed out. But I contend that’s because we’ve chosen to forget how, or at least, why “running up the score” in warfare isn’t the same thing as running up the score in team sports.
I think I see the problem. I’m not drawing a distinction between Arab and Muslim.
And from ’78 in Iran to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the west is getting it’s ass handed to them.
Judaism of the 1st Century AD is comparable* to Islam in the 21st in that there were multiple factions and the more violent you were prepared to be in upholding your version of Judaism, the more successful you were likely to be. Also, the Temple was as important to Jews then as the Ka’ba is to Muslims now. Losing the Temple (Because the Romans burned it to the ground and then wouldn’t allow it to be rebuilt) forced a reconsideration of religious priorities. I’m suggesting the loss the Ka’ba would accomplish something similiar.
But you’re right, nobody is going to nuke Mecca. And they know it.
Too bad for us.
*For the knicker twisters lurking out there, “comparable” doesn’t mean “same as” or “identical to” or even “similar.”
The West has been getting it’s ass handed to it in one form or another since 1914 Lee.
See, thinking we’ve evolved past that is a western conceit, making us weak in fact and perception. It’s a conceit that will be our downfall.
We are become Chamberlain.
“No one is going to nuke Mecca.”
– No one is going to nuke anything, other than possibly the usual suspects in the ME, because no one wants to be the one who nuked someone. Its that simple. Hell, even in the case of Japan, a clear case of no real choice for any number of reasons, to this day we take it in the shorts for even that.
– When you have too much advantage it has its effects on your ability to weild power, unless as a country you truly are a war mongering lot.
Are there lines of correlation demonstrable between Islamic theological doctrine and failure to advance in science & technology? I’ve no particular thesis to put forth, but do note Bernard Lewis addresses the question the Muslims themselves were forced to ask some time back, and if memory serves, Lewis pointed to ships(!), i.e., poor naval technology due to habits of coastal navigation. On the other hand, Pope Benedict’s Regensburg address alludes to another difficulty, one which may explain, at least part way, why the nominal Christian West grabbed hold of mathematical physics and scientific technology as the way to go, where Islam seems to intentionally turn its back on that path.
sdferr,
Early on Islam embraced Greek philosophy and logic but there arose opposition to that view and a couple hundred years after the founding the opposition became predominate and destroyed all reference that could be found to there having been any way other than their side. Below is a quote from one of the opposition’s founders, al-Ghazali, from his work “The Incoherence of the Philosophers”
The rigidity of this belief has waxed and waned over the years, currently waxing, but its influence has had the effect of destroying science within Islam and lands that are majority Islamic. Quote from this book “The Closing of the Muslim Mind“.
Thanks geoffb, for taking up the particulars of the thought where my ignorance forces me to retreat! And your observation is that the scientifically pernicious doctrine is currently on the advance? I wonder, do those Muslim nations (Pakistan, Iran, to name two) which seek nuclear weapons experience doctrinal difficulties — producing sufficient numbers of scientific minds to sustain their programs, say — or are they, like Communist China now following decadent capitalist ways, simply ignoring the deep conflicts their practical policy prescribes?
I would say ignoring as the whole of the belief system, as Marxism also, is used as a means to obtain and perpetuate the power of an elite who likely do not believe but maintain the appearance to keep their power.
Even al-Ghazali was eventually cast aside as his way was, even as he wrote, considered to be the moderate “middle way” between those who embraced the Greeks and a far more radical group which eventually came to be the dominate force which continues now as the Wahhabi. He, al-Ghazali, was seen as using logic and reason to defend Allah which is heretical.
I was wondering the other day if the swearing in of the new Egyptian hardliner is going to usher in a new round of destroying antiquities. The museum at Cairo was heavily damaged by earthquakes a few years back and I believe many of the artifacts are in other countries (GB, perhaps?) to be restored. It’d be a damned shame if they go all hardliner and destroy anything that predates Mohammed. Whichever way they decide to go, they have destroyed their value as a tourist draw. Who is going to go see the pyramids, the Valley of the Kings or the Sphinx now?
Whereas Atheists have never killed a soul!
hitler was an anti-smoking nazi
And the creepy thing is he had science on his side for that. Nazi Germany knew more about the detrimental effects of tobacco than the rest of the Western world was going to acknowledge for a couple of decades.
When they weren’t doing the crazy “survival of the fittest/racial science justifies the slaughter” scientistic rationalization, there were scientists Getting Stuff Done in Nazi Germany. (Engineers, too. Go look up how close they were to fielding stealth fighter-bombers in the ’40s. Spooky stuff.)
Which is not in any way an apology for Nazi Germany. But certainly says a lot about how pants-on-head retarded ideology can exist right alongside perfectly functional scientific minds, and should be a warning for people who seem to think that Being a Scientist is proof against ever having a stupid thought (hi, AGW!).
Germans are an enterprising people who are sometimes blinkered when it comes to acheiving a goal. Most of the inner circle of Hitler’s SS were also sons of the upper classes. For instance, Josef Mengele, though himself a medical doctor by training, was a scion of the Mengele heavy equipment manufacturers. They had stables of engineers at their disposal.
Speaking of Islamic antipathy towards science….
If’n I was Israel, Mecca would be in the top 5 of my target list.
I think it’s high time one of the “Holy Cities” went BOOM!
Ernst the kind of thing in your link is exactly what I was afraid of happening.
Nazi Germany knew more about the detrimental effects of tobacco than the rest of the Western world was going to acknowledge for a couple of decades.
because radon hadn’t been linked to lung cancer yet.
We killed plenty of women here with radium. The women who worked in factories that manufactured glow-in-the-dark clocks during WWI, were instructed to keep the tips of their paintbrushes pointed by putting them in their mouths to make a pointed brush.