Think it through: if you are an illegal and you haven’t committed a felony, the only recourse Arizona law enforcement has is to alert ICE. And the feds have already alerted AZ law enforcement that, unless the illegal in question has committed a felony, they aren’t interested in hearing from Arizona law enforcement. The crime of illegality is still illegal, but it is unenforceable, and therefore moot. Pre-empted.
So Arizona, a state hoping to force the federal government to enforce immigration law, is told by the Supreme Court that they a) can’t enforce immigration law as a function of a collaboration with the federal government; and b) because the federal government will not be enforcing the law itself, they have no actual authority over punishing illegals for being here illegally and, essentially and in fact, stealing from the citizens and taxpayers of the state — be it money, resources, or time.
And because this ruling will affect the way other border states are allowed to police borders and control citizenship, we may have just seen the judicial case for party-specific amnesty, depending on which party holds power — and how willing a President is to use “discretion” to have his federal law enforcement refuse to enforce certain law of his or her choosing.
That’s what the “conservative” Court has wrought.
****
update: I should add that I am far more interested than is Levin in seeing civil disobedience and out and out refusal by states to comply with these rulings or the federal dictates that eventually reinforce them. Electing conservatives to the GOP just isn’t a practical short term solution — and if the country is about to go into the crapper, as Levin himself believes, than it’s a rather empty gesture to pretend that all we can do is vote for conservatives and hope things turn around eventually.
A Supreme Court ruling that a state can’t protect it’s own citizens from an alien threat — that only the federal government can do so, and that it is at the discretion of the federal government to ignore Congressional legislation, and so ignore the jeopardy such a threat puts those citizens in — is a ruling that not only should be ignored, it must be ignored.
Instead, many on the right would rather just pretend the “heart of the laws” were upheld, and declare victory. When they know that isn’t what happened with this ruling. This is about more than immigration law. It’s about the rule of law per se and the sovereignty of the states. Both were molested today. To pretend otherwise is to assent to that molestation.
Bullshit. Cowardly defeatist bullshit.
Fixed.
Our immigration laws are indefensible.
Big Pappa MMM MMM MMMM says so.
President Romney will enforce the laws like a banshee I bet and Obama will just have to suck it
use to be funny now just a little too real
Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem
[…] Original Page: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=41295 Related Stories Ron Paul: Treasury Secretary Should be Fired Over Corruption Ron Paul on […]
I have no use for you today, happyfeet. So far as I’m concerned, you’re either of the left on this or may as well be.
if it’s a question of enforcement then we just need to elect someone who will do the enforcings and Mr. Governor Romney has been very vociferous about cracking down on the illegal peoples Mr. Jeff
he went on and on and on about it in the debates remember? And he was much more comfortable talking about the illegal immigrants than about his policies on the global warming or the health cares.
Stop pretending you miss the point. The fact that it’s now a matter of elections determining immigration policy — and really, which laws will or won’t be enforced — is the problem.
This is a wet dream for totalitarians of all Party affiliations. And doom for citizens. Or rather, for subjects.
I’m seeing how many laws I can break today and then tomorrow I’m going to see if I can beat that number.
Laws are for suckers.
For some time now I have expected we will see precisely no progress in pushing back Leviathan-on-the-Potomac until some governor decides to disobey the Feds, on some issue or another. Forget legalities; the Federal “government” is as lawless as it wants to be, consisting largely of unelected bureaucrats with powers seldom subject to redress. You can’t have an EPA without some crucifictions, after all. Sweet Jeebus, even those bureaucrats close to the margins of accountability (viz., Eric Holder, a direct Presidential appointment) can behave with impunity. Anyone really think he’ll see an hour in jail? Or even so much as pay a fine in civil court? Yet he has personally overseen and facilitated the slaughter of three hundred-odd Mexican nationals and two American agents.
At any rate, don’t hold your breath waiting for our political process to redress these violations of our liberties and rights. No one can blunt the Federal behemoth any longer. Unless and until some brazen governor refuses to cooperate with the Feds, nothing will avail. And that is very unlikely, given how addicted states are to Federal funding for state government expenditures. If some governor does decide to disobey Moloch in DC, the Fed’s answer will be Eisenhower’s: send in the troops, and even conservatives will hail the invasion, citing Brown vs. Board of Education. You wouldn’t want to look like Orval Faubus, would you?
This republic is dead. Long live Leviathan.
county sheriffs project
“The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.” Federalist No. 48, February 1, 1788.
link
we have to get rid of food stamp and his homeland security dyke is all I know Mr. Jeff
then we can maybe come up with a Plan, though me I am pessimistic
did you see the fracking thing at Hot Air?
these people have a hardon for raping our little country that just doesn’t abate
How is this going to affect other states, is what I want to know.
If AZ can’t enforce immigration laws, then doesn’t that mean no other states can?
If anyone knows any teenagers who’d like to buy some homebrew across state lines let me know. If they were selling shrooms and dodgy fireworks that’d be a twofer.
Anyone willing to give me decent odds on Sonnen beating Silva next Saturday?
CSPOA – Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association
If AZ can’t enforce immigration laws, then doesn’t that mean no other states can?
You clearly have not understood the exercise here. Refer to my book “1984.”
O’Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended. ‘How many fingers am I holding up, Winston? ‘Four.’ ‘And if the party says that it is not four but five — then how many?’ ‘Four.’ The word ended in a gasp of pain. The needle of the dial had shot up to fifty-five…
‘How many fingers, Winston?’ ‘Four! Four! What else can I say? Four!’ The needle must have risen again, but he did not look at it. The heavy, stern face and the four fingers filled his vision. The fingers stood up before his eyes like pillars, enormous, blurry, and seeming to vibrate, but unmistakably four. ‘How many fingers, Winston?’ ‘Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!’ ‘How many fingers, Winston?’ ‘Five! Five! Five!’ ‘No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?’ ‘Four! five! Four! Anything you like. Only stop it, stop the pain!…
‘You are a slow learner, Winston,’ said O’Brien gently. ‘How can I help it?’ he blubbered. ‘How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.”
“Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.’
Lessons in permanency are not far away. Once the lessons begin, the necessary recall will follow quickly.
Are there any Ft. Sumters in Arizona?
The political left, RI Red, would have had us believe that Rep. Giffords was Ft. Sumter, and the psychotic who shot her the government of South Carolina.
Are you obtuse, feets?
Others don’t.
it would be interesting to see 1000’s of counties in rebellion against the fed. gov’t.
Constitutional Convention time.
Constitutional Convention time.
nein die soros would buy it
A constitutional convention? Have you seen who the GOP puts up for President? We aren’t going to do better than the original. We need to insist it be enforced — and yes, it will start locally and have to move outward. I, too, would like to see thousands of counties telling the feds to fuck off.
Maybe Arizona should just make it a felony to be in the state illegally.
I expect a Constitutional Convention, were one ever called, to end in civil war.
They can’t make immigration law. Preemptive, you see.
Checkmate!
If the occurences of the last 3 1/2 years are not a casus belli, I don’t know what is. But it always takes an extraordinary event to light the fuse. What would get 1/3 of the country to say, “What the fuck? No way!”
Gotta be something to hit close to home in order to arouse the ire of the peeps.
think creatively: one way tickets to hawaii.
Take over cable?
The political left, RI Red, would have had us believe that Rep. Giffords was Ft. Sumter, and the psychotic who shot her the government of South Carolina.
Yes, sdferr, but the problem with that anlogy is that the libs were in power at the time and the shooter was a nutcase not tied to the right. If it had been otherwise, it would have been another F&F scenario, an excuse for a crackdown.
I’m trying to picture another scenario, where the silent majority, liberty-loving, working republican Ametricans are so outraged that they take to the streets.
And his administration said it would not assist Arizona’s efforts. Administration officials announced Thursday that they have canceled agreements that allowed some Arizona police departments to enforce federal immigration laws, and the Justice Department set up a telephone hotline and e-mail address for the public to report civil rights concerns about the law’s enforcement.
Brewer responded angrily to the decision, calling it “outrageous.”
“I think this is another assault on the state of Arizona,” she told CNN. “It began with them downplaying our border problem and them not securing it, and then, you know, suing the state of Arizona for trying to protect the people of Arizona and of America, then doing backdoor amnesty.”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/25/politics/scotus-arizona-law/index.html
jho, as comedically insane as it may sound, something so massively ordinary being subverted by the .gov might indeed be the spark.
Ship every fucking one of the illegals caught in Az to the Supreme Court building.
… the silent majority, liberty-loving, working republican Ametricans are so outraged that they take to the streets.
I can’t understand why everyone, regardless of political stripe, isn’t outraged and ready to take to the streets. Hell, even Jimmuh Carter took the Wonce to task today for killing Americans on foreign soil. After you’ve lost Jimmy, who’s left?
Tin soldiers and baracky’s
Nixon’scomin’.We’re finally on our own.This summer I hear the drummin’. 300 dead in sonoraFour dead in Ohio.Gotta get down to it.Soldiers are cutting us down.Should have been done long ago.What if you knew her andFound her dead on the ground?How can you run when you know?Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.Gotta get down to it.Soldiers are cutting us down.Should have been done long ago.What if you knew her andFound her dead on the ground?How can you run when you know?Tin soldiers and baracky’sNixon’scomin’.We’re finally on our own.This summer I hear the drummin’.300 dead in sonoraFour dead in Ohioborder sheriffs
Border Sheriffs is raising funds to help Sheriffs such as Cochise County’s Larry Dever have a voice in the lawsuits filed by the Federal Government to prevent our Sheriffs from enforcing the law they are sworn to enforce. They also need our help to defend themselves against lawsuits from the ACLU and more than a dozen other open border activists who don’t want to see SB 1070 (summary — link) enforced.
Sheriff Larry A. Dever has dedicated his life to protecting the citizens of Arizona. Border Sheriffs is attempting to return the favor by helping defend law enforcement in court so that they can enforce our laws against illegal immigration, stop the resulting violence, drug trafficking and families facing harm’s way because no one is policing our border.
http://www.bordersheriffs.com/background/
“Unless and until some brazen governor refuses to cooperate with the Feds, nothing will avail. And that is very unlikely…”
– Actually more likely than you might think. Ask some of the Louisiana NG’s and first responders what happened when the Feds tried to move into LA and fuck things up during the BP oil spill.
Not as a new law, just reclassifying the offense of being a foreign national without a green card as a felony. That way, they can (theoretically) call ICE. Hundreds of times a day…
leigh, practically, what are you saying? Taking to the streets only counts if you are there to take over something. Just demonstrations don’t do anything. You either have to participate in the political process, e.g., tea party and take over the political process, or literally take the high ground of physical force power. It means a state governor, backed up by a lot of state population, declaring, “This far, nor further.” And have the state National Guard backing her/him up. Or having an armed organized militia march into Washington and unseating the existing government. Or have so many people so pissed off they withhold their taxes and face the consequences.
They can’t. That’s the purview of Congress. Who can then be ignored by the President.
What AZ needs to do is make it a criminal act to employ an illegal alien, and make the fraud of receiving welfare a felony (no illegal is qualified to receive welfare).
If illegals can’t get job nor welfare, they won’t stay.
Doesn’t solve the taking of private property by criminal illegals along the border, but maybe it’s time for AZ to put the national guard on private ranches at the border.
Didn’t you watch horror movies when you were a kid, Red? The Villagers need to put aside their petty grievances and storm the castle where the monster lives with his bride and put it to the torch. Or we storm the Congress and start killing critters until our demands of a return to constitutional government are met. We start with their leaders.
Who’s with me?
Exactly, Darleen. It’s going to take willful disobedience of Federal law/imposition of State law, to bring this to a head. What’s the fed.gov going to do if AZ physically keeps border-crossers out? Express its disapproval?
leigh, if you promise me approximately one million fellow armed militia behind me, I’m there. Hell, I’ll take 500,000.
Between us we know people who know people who know people, Red. We can do it. Hell, I’m willing to be our Joan d’Arc.
– As a practical matter if you withhold taxes the Fed would shut down your banking access and cash flow from the reserve. You’ll need to print your own money.
– On the plus side, there are at least 26 states that were party to the fight against ACA, so that would be a good start.
Yes, bbh, there are a shit-load of practical aspects. I expect that R. Lee and J. Davis discussed similar matters.What’s funny is that I was brought up as a natural Yankee. Of course, Lincoln was right (he’s still one of my heroes). I always played the Union side in board games (remember those?).
The alternative is to live a comfortable life as the box gets smaller and smaller.
we are strong no one can tell us we’re wrong
Exactly how hard is it to start up a cock fighting ring? I’ve always thought that might be fun.
happy, that’s a wonderful sentiment/soundbite, but do you have the intestinal fortitude to actually back it up with action?
Yes! I will boycott all products from Arizona until the federal government finally starts enforcing this nations’s immigration laws as written Mr. Red!
except for their tea it’s a good value you get a whole giant can for just 99 cents
He’s quoting Pat Benatar lyrics.
“I’m trying to picture another scenario, where the silent majority, liberty-loving, working republican Ametricans are so outraged that they take to the streets.”
Apologies for being so late to reply, RI. But first I must read the rest of the thread. brb
Exactly how hard is it to start up a cock fighting ring?
try dogs first-vick
I don’t know what you guys are so down about. The contract has been declared null and void.
Go steal something from a progressive in your neighborhood. I’ve got my eyes on a riding lawn mower.
what’s kinda interesting is a lot of what Team R is grousing about today will be mirrored in the grousings of Team Rapist come thursday
at least the gnashings of teeth and and callings to arms and general tone of despair will be similar or even magnified
I hope I hope I hope
Sheriff Joe Arpaio: “I’m Not Stopping Anything”
– Yeh bh. They still don’t realize the lawlessness they so covet would/will bite them on their very own Marxist asses.
I don’t have any progressives in my neighborhood.
bh, places like Sears and Home Depot park their riding mowers in front unattended. Bring a pair of bolt cutters and drive it up a set of ramps into your pick-up you’re test-driving.
Team R
there are only ruling class and citizens and picachus now
Nah, those are businesses, leigh. In Locke’s Second Treatise he says I have the obligation to steal directly from progressive assholes. I assume.
Attempt at equivalency noted.
well there is : geicos(gov’t emp. ins. co) fighting progressives
Well, then it’s the neighbor you don’t like.
“I’m trying to picture another scenario, where the silent majority, liberty-loving, working republican Americans are so outraged that they take to the streets.”
So, while I’m only just beginning to come to grips with the implications, a couple of thoughts. In the midst of this political turmoil, we have at hand, as Americans (and as is obvious to everybody), two models to look to for some sort of guidance. The Revolution (and more particularly the period long preceding the Revolution, which is where we are now politically, I believe), and the Civil War and similarly the period immediately prior leading up to that conflict.
Where are the similarities, where the differences between these two upheavals and our own? What are the salient characteristics toward which we should look, upon which we should think to determine the best (new) path forward? What do we not know that we must know?
Unlike the Revolution, we have no physical separation from the power against which we petition. Like the Civil War, we are dispersed one with another, our adversaries and ourselves, throughout the land.
Like the Revolution, our fight is one engaged with all our political rights and expectations. Unlike the Civil War, the present struggle is not confined to a single controlling, relatively narrow, issue the like of slave-holding.
So it appears we have a confusing admixture of both cases: like in some respects with both, unlike in other respects with both.
Geico has been open to the general public for at least 25 years, nr. It’s like the Ford Foundation that way. No conection to Ford Motor Company, save a similarity in name.
– sdferr. a common missconception is that the American Revolution was amorphase on the US side. It most definately was not. Almost half the colonial population was highly hesitant about the break with England, and the founders well knew they could be hung if they failed to rally popular support. The AR is the applicable template.
– Instead of a tyranical Royal court you have a rogue Fed, something the founders were all to a
… aware of.
sdferr, I’m not convinced that slavery was the only issue. Sure, it was a huge economic issue for the South. But there was a simmering carry-over from the Founding that concerned a state’s rights under the 10th. I’m not defending the slave issue, but I am recognizing that the South may have had legitimate grievances about the imposition of federal law outside of the delegated powers. This from a dyed-in-the-wool New Englander.
At the same time, we now have a King George administration and beauracracy in DC. While not physically removed, it certainly is philosophically removed from most of the US, excepting the urban areas. But the mindset of the public is more ante-bellum. Brother v. brother, etc.
What to do, what to do.
Is this ‘amorphase’ a “love-episode”? Or a typo? Or some word with which I’m unfamiliar? Or a typo?
– No e, all of the same mind, if you will.
– I think it should be “amorphous”
Amorphous, I assume. So as to express the interspersed royalists, I believe.
Geico has been open to the general public for at least 25 years, nr. It’s like the Ford Foundation that way
thanks proggtard central
Loyalist, that should be. Probably works either way, I suppose.
You’re welcome, you grouch.
“At the same time, we now have a King George administration and beauracracy in DC. While not physically removed, it certainly is philosophically removed from most of the US, excepting the urban areas. But the mindset of the public is more ante-bellum. Brother v. brother, etc.”
Let’s leave aside quibbling over the particular drivers of the Civil War unless such niceties get us to some better understanding of our own situation I think. I’m happy to entertain other causes and circumstances in that period, if you believe they’ll help us better grasp the present problems. Otherwise, I lean toward the more fundamental and broader political questions which animated the founders as more apt to apply to our own situation. (So much the worse for us, in a sense.)
But I heartily agree the contentions we now face are primarily rooted in politico-philosophical differences, differences I’ve spent the better part of my life attempting to understand, differences I’m relatively well convinced by this time cannot be reconciled in rational terms or on persuasive grounds, if reconciled at all.
Yes, it does work either way because of the almost 50/50 split in the populace, although I don’t think the Proggressives come anywhere near that percentage, the 2008 election not withstanding.
“. . . although I don’t think the Proggressives come anywhere near that percentage . . . ”
Indeed. They are vastly outnumbered by non-progressives.
differences I’m relatively well convinced by this time cannot be reconciled in rational terms or on persuasive grounds, if reconciled at all.
Yup. That’s where we are. What to do, what to do.
BTW, I’ll be in ChiTown overnight in a couple of weeks. buy you a beer and we can plot.
Bars are excellent places to solve problems, and create new ones.
bh, I know people who know people that raise fighting cocks. However, officially, they only sell to clients in Mexico as “show birds”. I could probably hook you up to watch a competition though, but you will likely have to go to Alabama.
Heh, I’d like to accept RI Red, but live round about 1,200 miles from there in SW Fl.. I’ll raise a glass to your trip though. And ploddingly plot plod along right here.
– In fact I see 2008 as being an anamoly, coming on the heels of the wordt attack on American soil in history, and rocking us all to our very souls because it was simply, incewsibly unthinkable.
– The Left simply took advantage of the political vacume and all the uncertainties, much like a woman, raped when she’s drunk.
– Which, if true, should give ue hope for this election cycle because the state of things has to have sobered the old gal up this time around.
– One way or another at some point the general public is going to prove to Obama he’s not really a king.
Shoot, my intel was faulty. Meet you in Tampa sometime.
It might be worth the trip to Alabama if I could figure out something that’s illegal to bring across their border, Lee. Maybe venison. And then something to smuggle the other way. Maybe cigarettes.
“Which, if true, should give ue hope for this election cycle because the state of things has to have sobered the old gal up this time around.”
I can’t be so sanguine. Looks more to me like she picked herself up, popped a couple of Valium, and waits for those to wear off so she can do some blow and drink herself into a coma again.
I should add that I am far more interested than is Levin in seeing civil disobedience and out and out refusal by states to comply with these rulings or the federal dictates that eventually reinforce them.
Levin has to be extra-cautious with what he calls for on national radio; Jeff in the blogosphere, not so much.
The contract has been declared null and void.
Go steal something from a progressive in your neighborhood. I’ve got my eyes on a riding lawn mower.
Long ago I wondered what would happen with such a type of civil disobedience, if people just told the Fed to step off and disregarded the “unjust” or “unconstitutional” laws.
And I couldn’t escape contemplating the chaos that would ensue when all of the factions in Our Divided Country went ahead and decided to disobey all the laws they just plain didn’t like, whether they could be shown to be Constitutionally illegitimate or not.
That’s a dangerous breach to make, civil disobedience. But I reckon if it starts with elected officials rather than mobs in the street, it might could work out OK.
Like the Civil War, we are dispersed one with another, our adversaries and ourselves, throughout the land.
The Civil War division was plenty geographical, though not strictly so. We’re WAY more integrated now.
Also, proggs may be outnumbered, but they’re well-funded, well-organized, and willing to play much dirtier than most people.
“. . . willing to play much dirtier than most people.”
Which, were they not, we might not be at this pass to begin with. This is directly into the heart of the problem, it seems to me. They will have power, they intend to have that power and as much of it as they can get their hands on, damn the consequences. We resist.
Sdferr, just wondering aloud, but if rather than a comparison to the revolution or civil war, we aren’t more comparable to the mirror view of 1985 USSR. About to spectacularly crash due to unworkable central planning and deep, systematic corruption.
People seem to believe such a calamity could never befall us, but it can. What happens after is anyone’s guess. Such an event would in fact be worse than the collapse of the USSR, because we will likely take most or all of the western world with us.
Ringo: “…..So you decided to show up after all…..Wha?…..Holiday….Where’s Erp?
Doc Holiday: “…Oh he had a pressing engagement….but don’t worry…….I’ll be your huckleberry…..*smile*”
The chaos is a feature, I think, di.
Should we have an orderly tyranny? Should only conservatives worry about arbitrary whims?
Nah.
Dicentra, the salient difference between the Civil War and the Revolutionary War is the difference between border states and the Atlantic Ocean.
Lee, the collapse of Soviet Communism may be a nearer analogy in some senses, but further from us in others (namely, in our own experiences — certainly in the political grounds on the table). I’m leery at any such application, though perhaps could be persuaded if a strong enough case could be made.
Whereas slavery is mostly comfy. Particularly if you’re one of the good ‘uns and get to live in the Big White House.
Extension of slavery to the territories was the causus belli and there’s no point in kidding yourself that a higher principal was at stake.
bh, I don’t know what you could smuggle into Alabama, but I bet you could make some serious black market coin up north with a few gator skins…
wild rice! and walleye pike
which he’s entitled to harvest as a full-32nd-blooded Chippewa who doesnt need the white man’s fishing license.
Well, lately, I’ve been feeling more like one of Uncle Joe’s peasants than an American son, so there’s that…
– Never tried fishing for pike from a rider-mower, but it sounds like it could be fun.
bh, I don’t know what you could smuggle into Alabama, but I bet you could make some serious black market coin up north with a few gator skins…
Sex toys are illegal in Alabama.
“Well, lately, I’ve been feeling more like one of Uncle Joe’s peasants than an American son, so there’s that…”
heh, yeah, I hear ya. Thing is, where the old line Soviet guys just gave in, do you see any such inclination in our home-grow progressive types? Catch Dick Durbin’s speech on the floor of the Senate today, following up on his ‘victory’ in the Supreme Court decision in Arizona v United States?
Where we are persuaded we have been wronged, our adversaries are equally persuaded they have not only not done wrong, but cannot do wrong. They won’t quit without dying, is my point.
home-grown, durn it.
Yeah, but they got ducks…
Y’all are some natural born smugglers.
Most of Arkansas is dry, too bh. Premium booze could be the ticket.
– One mans smuggler is another mans public service provider.
– You want to see Outlaw, you gotta see the Frontier stock that built this country. The fiercely independent spirit of America.
– The pissant prissies on the Left would get eaten in a NY minute.
First you have to figure out how to get them to move on their own, then figure out what makes them aggressive towards each other…
Oh. Wait. Got those last two words switched around.
Just now got to listen to Levin’s second hour. Sounds to me as though he’s reached the same logical impasse we have.
Will the Supreme Court, having now been slapped squarely in the face by the Obama administration and its Homeland Security Department with their sudden rule change today regarding cooperation with the State of Arizona, see fit to stand on their hind legs and announce a reconsideration of the issues at hand in Arizona v United States? Will the dissenting Justices argue to the majority the humiliation that majority has suffered at the hands of Obama and Co., and the disrespect the institution now finds its due? How can they not?
A Supreme Court ruling that a state can’t protect it’s own citizens from an alien threat … is a ruling that not only should be ignored, it must be ignored.
That’s essentially what I told a friend here at work, although I think that my exact words were “Arizona should say ‘Fuck you’ to SCOTUS and the feds and keep on enforcing the laws. Because WTF is SCOTUS or Barry going to do about it if they don’t?”
Brewer should post National Guard patrol along the border and forcibly deport any and all illegals. I guess that Barry could send in the Army to force the issue, but he’ll probably wait until after the election to do so. Probably.
That would be the intelligent unethical thing to do, but it’s increasingly apparent that Spongejoe Hairplugs is the brains of this outfit.
I, for one, would simply love the optics of Obama’s Army forcing Brewer’s National Guard to let the illegals in. I’d also like to see the look on the commanding officer’s face as he orders his men to disarm their countrymen so that foreign invaders can proceed at their leisure. Ideally, we’ll have a handful of officers refuse to carry out the operation, and we can go all Amnesty International over their courts martial.
You ask what will get Americans to snap out of their comfortable comas and start buying my pitchforks? That would do it.
I almost wrote about those very optics in the post, Squid — comparing the National Guard removing Wallace from the door to them forcing Brewer to allow illegals to cross over unmolested.
At that point Obama and Napolitano may as well be handing them swag bags and giving them coupon books.
Ah, but we’re not citizens of the State of Ohio, or Colorado, or Arizona anymore. We have no citizenship but that of the United States. So bow down, bitches. The idea of “sovereign state” is so, like, over a hundred years ago.
We don’t have sovereign states. We have prefectures, provinces, sectors, mere subdivisions of the overarching Federal government. Or so they’d have us believe.
In other words, we really are France.
Forward Progress
” I, for one, would simply love the optics of Obama’s Army forcing Brewer’s National Guard to let the illegals in. I’d also like to see the look on the commanding officer’s face as he orders his men to disarm their countrymen so that foreign invaders can proceed at their leisure.”
And if possible run Army recruitment ads against the TV news footage of the army making the national guard back off. Sell it for what it is. Obama USING the military to make the US less safe, all just to stroke a minority group and to fulfill a grudge against Brewer and Arizona, in an election year.
Dayum, but you-all stay up too late at night. A fella’s got to get his eight hours in.
Back to it:
Ernst, I agree that extension of slavery into the territories was the actual casus belli of the Civil War; however, it was the manifestation of the underlying principal of state sovereignty within the Republic. No defense of slavery here at all. I’m saying that when it comes to “big issues”, a State has to decide if the issue is worth fighting for.
Perfect example is Arizona: In my humble opinion, as noted by Squid and others above, Governor Brewer should activate the National Guard and put it on the border. Ain’t no way that Regular Army is going to fire on National Guard to allow foreign nationals in. Yep, that would wake up the peeps.
Better yet, she orders her deployed National Guard back from Afghanistan to protect the Arizona border. That would be a great, “No, fuck you.”
I just told @GovBrewer on the twitter she should do just that. Not that it will matter much, but I would wholeheartedly support AZ pulling their troops and redeploying to defend the property and residents of Arizona from foreign invaders. And if Barry says to quit, a hearty “come and make me” would be deserved.
RI Red, I was first. = )
So Arizonans have the privilege of paying a second time for a job they’ve already sent their tax dollars to be spent by a usurping tyrannical Obama regime. Best have some extra cash laying around Arizonans, and too, notice what you can’t pay for with the second go-round dollars once they’re expended on the redundancy.
Well, they could save some money by an aggressive purge of illegals from public services.
And I’m saying that the big issue they were fighting for was the right to perpetuate the practice of slavery in ever more of the terrirory of the United States, not state sovereignty.
“States Rights” was a pretext, not a subtext.
I’m not so sure Ernst, the huge majority of those fighting for the south didn’t own slaves.
That’s true, and I believe largely irrelevant.
Yep, lee, you were there first. But it was past my bedtime.
I don’t see where Brewer has any choice now. If she can’t touch illegals within the state, all she can do is keep them out. I’m hoping she does it to force the constitutional crisis onto the front page where people will have to take notice.
Ernst, I think we are arguing at cross-purposes here. Of course they were trying to perpetuate slavery. The legal mechanism they used was by exercising state sovereignty.
Now, once at war, I suspect that the fighting was done by ordinary soldiers to repel “Northern aggression”, not to defend slavery.
In the interests of time and comity, here’s where I’m trying to go with my line of thinking (such as it is): There’s no principal upon which to defend the indefensible. Attempting to do so only weakens the principal weilded in defense of the indefensible.
Sheriff Joe asserts that he “will come up with something legal” to manage this illegal invader problem. I see a large order of pink tents, pink handcuffs and tighty pinkies.
Depends on your perspective of what is “indefensible”. This is especially true when you have the luxury of hindsight.
200 years ago, slavery was forever before, and practiced everywhere. The guy on our $20 was a dealer in humans. From that time and perspective, I can certainly see where slavery was the pretext, the right to secede from the union was the subtext, to use your construct.
Truly?
OK, Ernst, I now see your point; please forgive my obtuseness. My point is not to defend the indefensible, but point to the principle that a State has the right to exercise its sovereignty. Specifically, in this case, Arizona has been put in an untenable position by the Federal government. As palaeo said, way up-thread, our immigration laws are indefensible and our Federal government making Arizona a pariah State is indefensibile. It goes to the heart of the ceding of a portion of State sovereignty to the Federal government in exchange for the Feds living up to their side of the bargain – To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization – and to enforce it!
If the dereliction of duty by the Feds to control our borders is not halted, then Arizona should be completely within its rights to go against the will of the president and declare that it will exercise those rights which it had ceded.
There is no moral equivalency being drawn between slavery and border control. But, each goes to basic principles. Unlike the slavery issue, the Feds are on the wrong side of the border issue. And without a border, by definition there is no nation.
OK, I think I’ve consumed enough oxygen on this for awhile.
Highlighting — “Specifically, in this case, Arizona has been put in an untenable position by the Federal government.”
Personally, seems to me the standing is actually in the reverse, since Arizona is acting on legitimate interests and Obama and Co. are acting on illegitimate interests. Which you recognize in your follow-on argument. But maybe sometimes formulations count?
Perhaps, sdferr, but the untenable position is Arizona being forced to interpret the Constitution as a suicide pact.
Another example of playing by the rules while the Left scoffs at them.
I’m not clear as to the suicide RI Red? How do you mean?
AZ defers to the Federal government being the sole authority on immigration. The Federal government, although the sole authority, chooses not to enforce its own laws. AZ is over-run with illegals and its social services, police, schools, hospitals, etc. all crash. Ergo, AZ commits suicide by following the Constitution.
Ah, okay.
I’m looking outside such an order, that is, in another one where Az. refuses such a reading of the legitimacy of its governing acts (and acts with the backing of the consent of the governed) proceeds to protect its citizens and tow the line of duly passed laws.
Obama continues his dereliction of duty (without the backing of the consent of the governed) imposing his imperial fiat, and is defeated to be sent packing in short order.
One measure is tenable, the other untenable, aligning with properly understood legitimacy and illegitimacy respectively.
We need to shine a spotlight on the reality that we now have the Department of Homeland Security protecting Mexican outlaws from the State of Arizona.
That right there is fucked up I don’t care who you are.
The one who needs to shine the spotlight is Governor Brewer. She needs to publically tell Obama and his minions to go fuck themselves, and act in the best interests of her state.
If the Feds don’t want to enforce the laws and uphold the constitution, or pick and choose what suits them and harm Arizona, then she needs to show them that that is a two way street.
Enough talk and whining, take action. You’ve got some sheriffs with big brass ones there, use them.