[Enjoy. Or don’t.]

The protein wisdom interview: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

Ahmad Fadheel Nazaal al-Khalaylah (“Abu Musab al-Zarqawi” is his nom de guerre) was born in Zarqa, Jordan in October 1966. He came from a large family belonging to the trans-Jordanian Bani Hassan tribe, which is known for its loyalty to the royal Hashemite family. He grew up in the al-Ma’ssoum slum, was an indifferent student and spent most of his time in the municipal cemetery (located opposite his home), which served as his playground. He was known for being rebellious, got left back at school and turned into a juvenile delinquent, even spending time in jail.  The self-proclaimed al Qaeda leader in Iraq, Zarqawi was responsible for numerous attacks on Iraqis, Jordanians, coalition forces, and civilian contractors.  He was killed in an airstrike June 7 2006.  Which doesn’t matter, because the US has already lost the Iraq war anyway—and any celebration over the death of a terrorist thug is best left to the hooting natives, not to civilized journalists.

protein wisdom: “First of all, I’d like to thank you for taking this time to sit down with me, an infidel dog, and a Jew infidel dog, to boot.  But I think it’s important that we as Westerners try really to understand what it is that motivates people like you—21st century Minutemen, the Thomas Paines and George Washingtons of the new Caliphate, to hear some speak of it.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “…You know, because of the root causes and such…

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “And, like, blowback.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “– that type stuff.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “C’mon, man, you gotta work with me here.  Troops on Saudi soil?  Israel?  Cinemax After Dark?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: ”Baby-back rib platters…?  I know you know what I’m talking about…”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Okay.  Right. I completely agree:  let’s leave politics and ideology aside and just kinda delve into the psychology of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi:  Who was he?  What made him tick, if you’ll pardon the pun…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “For instance, a question I bet a lot of my readers would be interested in hearing your answer to is, why did you target Iraqi civilians if what you were trying to do was win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “I mean, was it to try to foment a civil war?—which, if that happens, will likely happen thanks to years of brutal Sunni-Ba’athist oppression of the majority Shia and not because al Qaeda fooled anyone into thinking their attacks were anything other than pure barbarism.  Or was there something else involved?  Some other grand strategy?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “– Like, I dunno, maybe the real target of your attacks was the Western media, which has shown itself to be easily manipulated toward anti-war sentiment by ‘insurgent’ brutality.  Something along those lines.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Yes?  No?  Maybe…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Hello…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Or perhaps you’re one of those cats who just likes to blow shit up…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Which, this is kinda off topic, but I get that vibe from John Woo and Michael Bay, too.  And Tarantino.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom:

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Yeah, you probably aren’t all that familiar with their work—though I bet you’ve watched bits of Reservoir Dogs, am I right?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “‘Stuck in the Middle with You’…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “I don’t know about you, but I think Gerry Rafferty is one of the most underrated rock/pop voices of our generation…”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Baker Street’?  ‘Right Down the Line’?  That’s some sophisticated pop sound, man.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “And in fact, ‘Baker Street’ may be responsible for bringing the sax back into pop music.  Although I guess some people would point you to Springsteen—who for the record is completely derivative of John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown band.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Of course, not many people know that, because JC didn’t achieve any measure of fame until much later on.  With the Eddie and the Cruisers soundtrack.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “…Though, you’re probably more of a zither man, I’m betting.  Or pan flute.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “See, that’s what I mean:  we don’t know a whole lot about you or your culture.  About your ‘Otherness’—what it is that makes y’all have such a, you know—a hardon to kill us.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “—if it’s even a cultural thing to begin with.  In fact, this is a big debate we have here all the time:  are we fighting a battle of civilizations—or are we fighting what is essentially a fringe group that represents no more than just a tiny fragment of Moslem thought.  Which would mean we are seriously overreacting to what is, in reality, a very small threat.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Though those buildings collapsing in New York wasn’t particularly small.  Nor were the lives of those folks on those hijacked planes.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “But that’s just me editorializing.  And this isn’t about me—it’s about understanding twisted headloppers like you.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “So.  Why do you want to kill us?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Because I’ve floated the theory that it’s a combination of heat and too much sweetener in the tea, but nobody seems to buy that.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “They tend to go with wrath.  Or envy.  Or pride—you know, the psychological canon of go-to animating motivations.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “—hell, come to think of it, they kinda map onto a number of Deadly Sins, too, huh?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “…Which, well, I don’t think I need to point out the irony in that to you.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “But be that as it may…”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “So.  What was the last thing that went through your head just before you went to your eternal reward…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Besides pieces of farmhouse foundation and bits of your sternum, I mean?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Because were it me, I’d be thinking, was it really worth it?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “I mean, in an existential sense…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Like, for instance, the way Hemingway lived his life.  Because I won’t lie to you, I can see the draw:  power, excitement, adventure…”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “But shit, man.  You were a desert guy.  Why not just do battle with those giant flying radioactive maneating spiders you guys have out there?  Because those things are creepy.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “And when you kill them, people don’t get as miffed as when you saw the heads of civilians or blow up children.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Or else, why not just do some amyl nitrate poppers like everybody else?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “You know—fight a fucking bull, man!  Experiment with a male hooker!  Eat some day old sushi…!”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Eh.  Well, I guess it’s all academic now, right?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Your being quite dead and all.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “…Which, I’ve gotta know:  the virgins.  Is it true?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “I mean, are they hot, or…? “

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “C’mon, don’t hold out on a brother…”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “– Oh.  And point of art:  if you get your nuggets blown off by a 500lb US bomb on earth, can you still…you know, get the machinery working in the afterlife…?

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “These are the questions that keep me up at night, Abu.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Well, that, and why in the hell does Keith freakin’ Olbermann have his own talk show…?”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Yeah, don’t answer that.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Anyway, thanks so much for your time.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “…I’m off to play with my little boy.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “Enjoy the girls.”

al-Zarqawi:

protein wisdom: “And, you know—the dirt.”

****

update:  Man, I wish I could have gotten Abu to open up like this. I mean, I really wanted to know what he thought about Chris getting booted from this year’s “American Idol,” for instance.  But after a while I figured, what’s the point, you know?  I mean, he wasn’t as forthcoming as I’d hoped he’d be.

Probably had something to do with having bitten off most of his tongue when the bombs hit.

[originally published June 9 2006]

*******

The protein wisdom interview: Dr. Kamau Kambon

Dr. Kamau Kambon is a former visiting assistant professor of African Studies at NC State University and owner of BlackNificent Books and More in Raleigh.  He is also a former professor of education at St. Augustine’s College in Raleigh, a historically black institution, and in 1999 received a Citizen’s Award from The Independent Weekly, a leftwing newspaper.

protein wisdom: “Let’s just jump right in, shall we?  In an October 14 panel presentation you gave at the ‘Black Media Forum on Image of Black Americans in Mainstream Media’ at Howard University (which aired on CSPAN), you said — and I’m quoting here—‘We have to exterminate white people off the face of the planet.’ My question is, did you mean that, like, literally, or…– ?”

Kambon: “– Literally, yes.  Wipe ‘em all out.”

protein wisdom: “Like, in ovens and such…?”

Kambon: “Well, the method is immaterial, frankly, though Whitey’s sheer volume would probably make the use of ovens—at least until the initial extermination procedure is carried out, and the herd thinned considerably—rather impractical.  I’m no expert on these kinds of things, mind you, but if I had to speculate, I should think something more covert is necessary, like, oh, I don’t know… –”

protein wisdom: “—Poisoning Country Kitchen buffets, bombing professional hockey venues, things like that –?”

Kambon: “– Exactly, yes.  Places where Whitey gathers and engages in sinister Whitey activities.”

protein wisdom: “Like plotting to kill all the blacks.”

Kambon: “Like plotting to kill all the blacks, right.  Which, I should note, many people who are commenting on this controversy seem to forget was the basis for my remarks—this systematic plan Whitey has to kill the black man.”

protein wisdom: “Uh huh. And Whitey wants to do this because…?”

Kambon: “I don’t know. You tell me.  You’re the evil Honky.”

protein wisdom: “Point taken.  Incidentally, you’re not, y’know—armed, are you?”

Kambon:

protein wisdom: “Right.  Well then allow me switch gears for a moment and ask you this:  Bill Bennett was recently excoriated in the mainstream press for remarks that, though he went out of his way to qualify them, were nevertheless deemed ‘racist’ by many in academia and the media –”

Kambon: “– His remarks about killing all the black babies, you mean?”

protein wisdom: “– Yes.  Though, of course, that’s not what he meant at all, and in fact, he was arguing against that very thing –”

Kambon: “—Now, see there?  See what you’re doing?  That’s Honky obfuscation, my man.  That’s the White Devil talking.  Let me ask you this:  Did the man talk about aborting black babies or did he not?

protein wisdom: “—Well, yes, in a way, but –”

Kambon: “– Nonononononono.  No buts, baby.  Ain’t no ‘context’ or qualification that can rescue the implicit desire for a genocide when it is uttered by the White Man.  We take any shit y’all say at face value, particularly when it involves the eradication of the Nubian blood line.”

protein wisdom: “The what’s this now–?”

Kambon: “The Nubian blood line.  The black man.  Don’t act all ignorant.”

protein wisdom: “So then, you’ve really already answered my question, which is, do you believe Mr Bennett should have been excoriated for his remarks?”

Kambon: “Excoriated?  Aren’t you listening, Ofay?  He should have been whipped, then lynched.  Dude advocated the wholesale slaughter of the black man in his pre-born fetal innocence, did he not?”

protein wisdom: “Well, no –”

Kambon: “The murdering Honky racist fuck –”

protein wisdom: “– Well, see, here’s the thing, Dr. Kambon:  if you consider Dr Bennett’s remarks racist and deserving of widespread condemnation, how can you not see your own remarks as racist and deserving of that same kind of scorn, given that you are advocating for the same thing you believe Dr Bennett is advocating for, save a change in the color of the targeted group?”

Kambon:

protein wisdom:

Kambon: “See, now that’s a racist question.”

protein wisdom: “It is?”

Kambon: “Of course it is.  You’re white, ain’t you?”

problem wisdom: “Well –”

Kambon: “Well nothing.  Whitey wants to kill all the blacks, which makes you part of the racist plot. QED.  It ain’t difficult to follow.”

protein wisdom: “Well, sure. But that seems a bit like circular logic –”

Kambon: “Listen:  logic is a tool of the White oppressor class that is invoked to stifle the creative mentation of the Black man, whose mind functions according to ancient narrative patterns inscribed in his genetic memory and which is borne of an oral rather than a text-based cultural dialogic.”

protein wisdom: “Wow.  I hadn’t realized that –”

Kambon: “Yeah, well—It’s a black thing.  You wouldn’t understand.”

protein wisdom: “Like the bumper sticker!”

Kambon:

protein wisdom:  “Right.  Moving on.  So tell me a bit more about these, y’know—these retina scans and DNA banks that Whitey has.  Because I found that part of your speech particuarly fascinating.”

Kambon: “I said that?”

protein wisdom:  “Well, you talked a bit about the technology Whitey was using to surveil the black community, right?  You said—and I’m quoting here—‘Now how do I know that the white people know that we are going to come up with a solution to the problem. I know it because they have retina scans, they have what they call racial profiling, DNA banks, and they’re monitoring our people to try to prevent the one person from coming up with the one idea. And the one idea is, how we are going to exterminate white people because that in my estimation is the only conclusion I have come to. We have to exterminate white people off the face of the planet to solve this problem.’”

Kambon: “Oh, that.  Right.  What of it?”

protein wisdom:  “Well, don’t you find it a bit ironic that for all this advanced technology you were on about, all that Whitey really had to do was wait for you to go on CSPAN and broadcast that ‘one idea’ about exterminating all of us?”

Kambon:

protein wisdom:  “That is, who needs all this high-tech monitoring and cataloging technology when people like you are just going to, y’know, blab the whole plan on Cable TV like that?”

Kambon:

protein wisdom:  “I mean, I just found it ironic, is all.  Nevermind.”

Kambon: “Well, let me ask you this, big shot:  who invented Cable TV?”

protein wisdom:  “I’m not sure exactly, but I think I know where you might be going with this –”

Kambon:  “– That’s right, the White Man.  The White Man invented Cable TV.  And on whose terms did I release this information about the one idea?”

protein wisdom:  “Your own?”

Kambon:  “That’s right, the black man’s.  You damn skippy, Cracker.”

protein wisdom:  “Okay, good.  So just to summarize quickly what we have so far:  you think that Whitey is looking to exterminate the black man, and that his motives for doing so are racist.  And your solution to this problem is to exterminate Whitey first—not out of any racist impulses of your own —after all, you aren’t really judging Whitey, you’re just acting on an empirical fact, and besides, the oppressed can’t, by definition, be racist because of the inequity of power relations, blah blah blah.  But rather, you are calling for the extermination of whites out of a necessity which you argue is borne of the White Man’s inherent racism.  Is that a fair paraphrase of your position?”

Kambon:  “That’s it, yes.  Though I would use the term ‘brother’ more often –”

protein wisdom:  “– And the empirical evidence upon which you base this self-defensive call to genocide is…what, again?”

Kambon:  “The fact that you all are white, and that Whitey wants to kill all the blacks.”

protein wisdom: “Right.  Gotcha. Now, one last question, if I may, Dr Kambon, and it’s this:  Why do you think it is that Whitey continues to provide you with a forum for delivering these kinds of messages?  That is, if Whitey controls the power and wants to eliminate you—or, at the very least, to silence you in order to prevent you from eliminating him—why do you think it is that he is so willing to give you a forum from which to espouse such controversial racialist views?”

Kambon: 

protein wisdom:  “…Like for instance, putting it on C-SPAN?”

Kambon:

protein wisdom:

Kambon: “Well, I never said Whitey was particularly bright, did I?”

protein wisdom: “No you did not.  I thank you for your time, Dr Kambon.”

Kambon: “Uh huh. Now get your pasty shit out of my face before I beat your white ass pink and pulpy with a ghetto brick.”

****

(h/t Terry Hastings; previous protein wisdom interviews here)

[Note:  the above interview is a satire—though it is difficult to parody something so shockingly incoherent as was Dr Kambon’s actual presentation, links to which are available in the post and in the comments.  Be sure to check out the previous protein wisdom “interviews” here]

[originally published Oct 21 2005]

*******

The protein wisdom interview: Ted Kennedy

A Democrat from Massachusetts, Edward Moore Kennedy was first elected to the United States Senate in 1962 to finish the term of his brother, John F. Kennedy, who had become president in 1961. “Teddy” was reelected in 1964 and then again for six additional terms, most recently being reelected in 2000. He has a reputation as a hard-working liberal on issues such as education and health care, but his personal life (stories of drinking and womanizing) has frequently been a hot topic for gossip columnists. Kennedy ran for president in 1980 but was defeated for the Democratic nomination by incumbent president Jimmy Carter.

protein wisdom: “Let’s get right to it, Senator. Are you calling this administration an evil gang of liars?”

Kennedy: “Good afternoon, Mr. Wisdom. Well, that’s a bit abrupt, but yes, I suppose I am.”

protein wisdom: “– Just thought we should get that out of the way –“

Kennedy: “– No, I think it’s helpful to be candid, you’re right. But allow me to clarify my answer. Basically, when President Bush became president, I was very hopeful that we could work together in the areas of education reform. And we did. And President Bush had asserted, as I did, that you needed two things for education reform. You — you needed reform and you needed resources. What we did is we passed a bill that had reform, but we haven’t had the resources. And that, I think, is similar to other kinds of issues that we’re facing in public policy. I think this administration misled the American people in the war with Iraq. Iraq didn’t have weapons of mass destruction, it wasn’t tied to al Qaeda. What we should have been focusing on is al Qaeda. And we’ve also seen that with the Medicare bill. And I think one of the most important things that we can do is to have an administration that we can work with. We’ll have philosophical differences, but I found that I could work with President Reagan on arms control. I worked with Bush senior on the Americans with Disabilities Act, along with Tom Harkin and others, who’ve worked in a bipartisan way. I was rather startled. I was rather surprised that after we had the downpayment on education, suddenly we stopped the funding, and it went in a different way.”

protein wisdom: “Senator, when you say ‘misleading,’ do you mean to suggest that the administration is distorting things deliberately, or is this more a case of perhaps not having all the facts? What are you –“

Kennedy: “– Well, it’s very, very clear with regards to education. We had reform plus funding. We just passed a $2.4 billion budget for this next year. We would have needed $8 billion out of the $2.4 trillion for the — for funding the No Child Left Behind. We got zero money in it. We don’t want to misrepresent that we’re doing something for children and then not do it. This was true in terms of the Medicare system — Medicare reform, where the Medicare — our seniors need prescription drugs. But they also need it at a price that they can afford it. And what we’re going to have is a Medicare bill that they have at the present time with prescription drug prices that are right up through the roof.”

protein wisdom: “I’m sorry. Not to get off topic here, but your head is absolutely enormous. Seriously. I’m having a really hard time concentrating. It’s like I’m interviewing a planet –“

Kennedy: “Yes, I have a large head, sir. You’re not the first to point that out, believe me. But to stay on message here, let me just say that basically, we’ve had differences with Democrats and Republicans, but this is an administration that has, as I mentioned, manipulated, distorted, misrepresented information. They did with regards to Iraq. They’ve done it with regards to education. They’ve done it with Medicare. They’ve done it with our economic policies. And we need a basis of trust so that we can try and work through even differences in philosophy. That’s the big difference that we have with this administration compared to other Republican administrations –“

protein wisdom: “– I mean, it always looked big on TV, your head, but I must say that up close…well, it’s stunning, frankly.”

Kennedy: “This is the head I was born with, sir. This is the head I was born with. Now if I may continue. In one sense, I certainly consider the — well, I have a personal relationship with the president. But I also feel very strongly about the issues that are at stake. I’ve been fortunate enough to represent Massachusetts for 40 years in the United States Senate. I’ve been on the Education Committee. Education is very important to me. It is to families across the country. And so when you see the opportunities that are missed, and then you see the distortion, misrepresentation, that isn’t just making me upset, but it’s upsetting the students, who are putting out at 100 percent — as well as the parents, the school boards, all of those involved in education and reform. They’re the ones that are the — the ones that are being left behind. I’m an advocate for the people that I represent, and I welcome the opportunity to do so. But I take these issues seriously.”

protein wisdom: “Yeah, that’s nice, but let me ask you this: has that head of yours ever gotten, y’know, stuck in a revolving door, anything like that? Because with a head that size — and I’d like to stress again for the benefit of my readers just how huge it is up close — I can’t conceive of your not having trouble getting it through a revolving door. Without incident, at least –“

Kennedy: “No. I’ve never had a problem with revolving doors, Mr. Wisdom. But as I was saying, when I think of the economy, I think of a number of factors. I think of the issues of the jobs. And we know that all — with each of the new jobs, they are averaging $8,000 less in pay than the jobs they replaced. And we’re still two million jobs less than the jobs that we had at the time that this administration, the Bush administration, took office. We — certainly the 300,000 that were added last week is a hopeful sign. But when we’re talking about the economy, we’re talking about the jobs that are paying less. The average pay is about 21 percent less for the new jobs created. We’re also thinking about the cost of health care. The average cost for working families has gone up 43 percent. And so many people have dropped health care. The economy is also reflected in the fact that tuition has gone up 23 percent. And the tax cut nowhere near comes near to paying those. So working families — working families are working much longer. They’re working much harder. And they’re falling further behind. And that is the description — that is what I’m concerned about. And also, we have an administration that opposes raising the minimum wage for seven years. We’re paying $5.15. This administration has been opposed and is also threatening to take away overtime for workers. And even for those that have been unemployed, now let the unemployment compensation fund lapse. You know, it just seems that working families, working people are just left behind with this administration, in a way which is really quite different from past administrations.”

protein wisdom: “Yes, working people left behind, blah blah blah, gotcha. Seriously, though. It’s like your neck gave birth to a giant ham, if you don’t mind my saying. I expect you can’t wear any kind of pullover sweaters, am I right? — it’s all V-necks for you…?”

Kennedy: “Not at all. I mean, I have pullover sweaters and I have V-neck sweaters. I try not to limit myself to just one sweater style. Pullover-wise, I like Irish fisherman sweaters. From Galway. I have about 30 of them, in fact. And for the record, I’m quite proud of my head — just as I’m proud of my service to this country and of the label ‘liberal.’ I don’t run from the label. But I think what Americans are looking for, more than labels — I think this administration would like to run on labels, because they have a basically weak record. Certainly they do in domestic affairs and in dealing with the economy and education and health care. But the fact is the American people want more than labels, and they want more than slogans. They want to know which of the candidates, whether it’s this administration or John Kerry, is going to offer a vision and see a restoration of our economy, and an expanding and growing economy. And also a vision about what this country is going to be, not only for the people of this country, what we’re going to represent around the world. John Kerry is going to have a positive, hopeful message — “

protein wisdom: “– Kerry’s got a big head, too, come to think of it — kind of long and thin, like you’d expect to find on a racing dog… But it’s nothing like yours. A fleshy, magnificent anvil with ears is what you’ve got. It’s spectacular –“

Kennedy: “– And that, I think, is what Americans are going to really respond to. I think this administration is going to continue to try and look at labels, slogans, cliches, negative ads. I don’t think over the long term Americans will buy that. What they’re looking for is really — they’re looking for addressing the kinds of issues that people are most concerned about in their daily lives: education, health care, health care costs, accessibility of health care. And quit it with the big-headed stuff, okay?”

protein wisdom: “I’m afraid that’s impossible, Senator. It’s like I’m sitting across the table from a full moon. I have to stare. But I will ask you this: you said several weeks back that Iraq is George Bush’s Vietnam, and that this country needs a new president. Vietnam was started under a Democratic administration. How do you compare the two, Senator Bighead.”

Kennedy: “We’re facing a quagmire in Iraq, just as we faced a quagmire in Vietnam. We didn’t understand what we were getting ourselves into in Vietnam. We didn’t understand what we were doing in — in Iraq. We had misrepresentations about what we were able to do militarily in Vietnam. I think we are finding that out in Iraq, as well. That is basically the similarity. And we have to find new leadership in order to — to be able to resolve this with a sense of dignity and with a sense of respect, which is going to make sure that we’re going to see an independent Iraq, that Americans are brought home with dignity.”

protein wisdom: “Cutting and running — is that what passes for dignity in the land of the Big Heads? Tell me, do they have lots of pie in Big Headed Land, Senator? Because you look like you enjoy a slice or two of pie from time to time. Am I right? — lots of pie in Big Head land? A dietary staple of the giant headed people –?”

Kennedy: “Name calling. That’s all you people do –“

protein wisdom: “– ‘you people’, Senator? You mean people who can buy their hats right off the rack –?”

Kennedy: “– I mean, here we had Mr. Clarke come up and make his presentation, and we saw the most vicious kind of attacks on him by the administration. We had General Shinseki on the Armed Services Committee make projections and predictions of what was going to happen in Iraq. And they dumped all over him. This is a technique. And I would hope that this aspect of the administration’s assault on those that have been critical of the Iraqi policy and are showing to be correct in their predictions — I would hope that that kind of character assassination would be set aside. Beyond that, what we want to do is to find out what are the lessons that we can learn from this experience, that can hopefully give us a course, a path to the future so it can be avoided in the future.”

protein wisdom: “Yes. We must avoid ‘it’ at all costs. Wanna know the lesson I’ve learned from this experience, Senator?”

Kennedy: “You’re going to say something about the size of my head, aren’t you? You’re like a one-trick pony –“

protein wisdom: “Oh, you’re so close! I was going to point out that your head is the size of Paul Simon — that it’s like you’ve got an entire Jewish singer-songwriter poking up out of your collar — “

Kennedy: “Yes, how serendipitous for me. But if I may, I’d like to talk about the June 30th deadline for handing over power to the Iraqi governing authority. The date has been set. And obviously, to try and get the target, the bullseye, off the backs of Americans, as they are represented as occupiers and not liberators, that has to be something that we have to be successful at or we’re going to have a very long, bloody, difficult, costly — additionally costly fight. The idea of transitioning into the Iraqi sovereignty makes some sense, but that date of June 30 — I believe when it was set, it was timed more to American elections than it was with regarding the development of the Iraqis to be able to achieve their own sovereignty –“

protein wisdom: “– You’re speaking, of course, of the early July elections that take place in the Land of the Giant Headed Senators, correct –?”

Kennedy: ” — the real question now, I think, is who are they going to turn the power and authority over to? Certainly, that is not very clear today, and that is something that has to be addressed.”

protein wisdom: “What do you gather is public opinion concerning Iraq, Senator Enormous Head?”

Kennedy: “Very divided. I think the Americans still believe that somehow Iraq was involved in the — in 9/11 and that Saddam had some connection with it and that there was a danger of nuclear capability that would have threatened the world. And that if we didn’t do something immediate, that Saddam was going to turn all of his weapons of mass destruction over to terrorists. There was complete distortion and misrepresentation among the Armed Services Committee. I not only listened to the testimony, but you could listen to the open testimony, and if you listened to those military men, highly decorated, highly competent, that predicted what was going to happen there, you would have voted no. I did vote no. But the point — the most important point is that Iraq has been a distraction from our attack on al Qaeda. I think most people believe now if we’d given the full force and attention that we gave to Iraq and put that in pursuit of Osama bin Laden, we could have been successful in locating him and could have dealt a fatal blow to al Qaeda. And now what we’re facing is a hydra-headed terrorist group around the world. And it’s more complicated, more difficult. And as I said, Iraq has become this administration’s Vietnam –“

protein wisdom: “– ‘Hydra-headed,’ heh. That’s a good one. I’m going to have to remember that one –“

Kennedy: “– And I’m standing by that assessment. I believe that there has to be an alteration or change. I believe that there is no way that this administration can develop the confidence internationally from any of the neighboring states in order to be able to build the kind of a policy where we could see the United States see a free and developed, independent Iraq and American forces brought home. I think you — there is no credibility left for this administration, and that part of the world needs a change. I think John Kerry has the background, the war experience, somebody that’s seen war, understands war, and the foreign policy experience to give us a new opportunity to see this resolved, where we can bring Americans home with honor. That’s what we’re all interested in. And I think he’s the man to do it.”

protein wisdom: “Yes, perhaps he’ll bring them home with honor, then accuse them all of raping babies and the like. I look forward to it. But I’d like to get back to that head of yours, which as I say is gargantuan. Where do you buy headphones, may I ask? Do you have them custom made? I mean, can the Japanese — a smallish people, generally speaking — even conceive of making headphones big enough to fit that skincovered beerkeg of yours –?”

Kennedy: “The Japanese, Mr. Wisdom, conceived of Godzilla, did they not? Not that I wish to dignify your question, but facts are facts are facts. Getting back to Senator Kerry, though… I think you’ll see from Mr. Kerry a hopeful message, an upbeat message, a vision about what he wants to do here at home, particularly with regards to the economy, which is the key to all the hopes and dreams of families. And also, I think you’re going to get a sense from this campaign the kind of leadership that he would provide in terms of national security here at home, in dealing with the challenge of terrorism abroad, and how he would be a leader within the free world community and get this issue behind us and address many of the other international issues.”

protein wisdom: “Yes, I know. He’ll go to the UN, swell, I feel safer already… Tell me about car windows, though. Can you poke that giant melon of yours out of a car window to, say, check your blind spot? Without smacking it into street signs or telephone poles, I mean –?”

Kennedy: “I don’t wish to talk about driving, thank you –“

protein wisdom: ” — Oh, yeah, that bridge thing, right… That had to suck, eh? Anyway, sorry –“

Kennedy: ” — too much to ask to get through an entire interview without trotting out that tired old chestnut — “

protein wisdom: ” — And thanks so much for doing this. All very edifying, Senator. Now go. It’s Happy Hour. Order yourself some mozzarella sticks, some potato skins, have yourself a drink or something. You’ve certainly earned it. And your hands are beginning to shake, I see –“

Kennedy: “– A drink? As in one drink? No offense, son, but where the hell have you been…?”

****
update: Not a protein wisdom interview.

update 2: Also not a protein wisdom interview.

[originally published May 13 2004]

******

The protein wisdom interview: Noam Chomsky

Noam Chomsky is Institute Professor in the Department of Linguistics and Philosophy at MIT. He is the author of dozens of books, including Power and Terror and Middle East Illusions. His book 9-11 was an international bestseller.

protein wisdom: “To borrow a question from David Barsamian, in recent years, the Pentagon and then the media have adopted the term ‘collateral damage’ to describe the death of civilians. Talk about the role of language in shaping and forming people’s understanding of events.”

Chomsky: “What do we say…?”

protein wisdom: “Sorry. Please talk about it.”

Chomsky: “Well, it’s as old as history. It has nothing much to do with language. Language is the way we interact and communicate, so, naturally, the means of communication and the conceptual background that’s behind it, which is more important, are used to try to shape attitudes and opinions and induce conformity and subordination. Not surprisingly, it was created in the more democratic societies. The first –“

protein wisdom: “– Wait, why ‘not surprisingly’?”

Chomsky: “I beg your pardon?”

protein wisdom: “You said, ‘not surprisingly, it was created in the more democratic societies.’ First, what is ‘it’? And second, why is it not ‘surprising’ that ‘it’ was created in more democratic societies?”

Chomsky: “You asked about the role of language in shaping and forming people’s understanding of events, did you not?”

protein wisdom: “I did indeed.”

Chomsky: “So then that’s the ‘it’ I refer to. Now, the first coordinated propaganda ministry –“

protein wisdom: “– Wait, time out, sorry. The ‘it’ refers to the role of language in shaping and forming people’s understanding of events…?”

Chomsky: “Yes, now if you’ll just let me –“

protein wisdom: “– So then, ‘it’ — the role of language in shaping and forming people’s understanding of events — has, and I’m quoting you now, ‘nothing much to do with language’?”

Chomsky: “Did I say that–?”

protein wisdom: “– Language has nothing much to do with language. I’m afraid you did, yes.”

Chomsky: “Oh. Well, skip that, then. It was just bullshit. The real answer is, that during World War I, the British Ministry of Information had the task, as they put it, of controlling the mind of the world. What they were particularly concerned with –“

protein wisdom: “– Sorry to interrupt again, but you understand the MI to have been using that phrase figuratively, correct?”

Chomsky: “Who’s this now?”

protein wisdom: “When the Ministry of Information talked of ‘controlling the mind of the world,’ they didn’t mean that literally, correct? — no ray guns for zapping people with mind-control beams or anything like that…”

Chomsky: “Oh heavens no –“

protein wisdom: “–because I have to ask, given your penchant for paranoid fantasy –“

Chomsky: “– I’m talking of a concentrated rhetorical effort to direct and control information flow. What they were particularly concerned with was the mind of America and, more specifically, the mind of American intellectuals. They thought that if they could convince American intellectuals of the nobility of the British war effort –“

protein wisdom: “– I’m sorry, here I go again interrupting you. But wouldn’t any set of intellectuals you’re able to reduce to a single mind — in this case, ‘the mind of American intellectuals,’ as you’ve characterized it — be anti-intellectual, almost by definition?”

Chomsky: “– excuse me?”

protein wisdom: “– that is, how can such a group, distinguished as it supposedly is by its systematic questioning of received wisdom — be reduced to a single mind without, in effect, deconstructing the entire concept of intellectualism?”

Chomsky: “– But, um, you see, if they could convince the American intellectuals of the nobility of the British war effort, then American intellectuals could succeed in driving the basically pacifist population of the United States, which didn’t want to have anything to do with European wars, rightly, into a fit of fanaticism and hysteria –“

protein wisdom: “– are you saying Americans shouldn’t worry about overseas wars, Dr. Chomsky? We should turn our backs on, say, extra-continental genocides, for example?–“

Chomsky: “– which would get them to join the war. The mind-control rays wouldn’t come until much much later — developed by Dow Corning, in fact, under a secret mandate from Nixon and the Israelis and Howard Hunt as a way to neuter the communists –“

protein widom: “–Okay, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I’d like to go back to this question of language. Clearly, there’s a huge gap on the Iraq war between U.S. public opinion and the rest of the world. What is it, do you think, that makes the US population so susceptible to propaganda?”

Chomsky: “…and the, y’know, the whole Warren Commission. East Timor. Latin America. The CIA…”

protein wisdom: “Dr. Chomsky…?”

Chomsky: “Yes, sorry. That’s a good question. I don’t say it’s more susceptible to propaganda; it’s more susceptible to fear. It’s a frightened country. The reasons for this — I don’t, frankly, understand them, but they’re there –“

protein wisdom: “– Well, could it have something to do with insane, fanatical Islamic extremists — nihilists bent on returning the world to a pre-Enlightenment theocracy by way of the doomsday sword — declaring war on us, do you think?”

Chomsky: “– Islamic what now? Oh, no, no. You’re contemporizing. The reasons for this country’s fear go way back in American history. It probably has to do with the conquest of the continent, where you had to exterminate the native population; slavery, where you had to control a population that was regarded as dangerous, because you never knew when they were going to turn on you –“

protein wisdom: ” — yeah, that’s great stuff, Noam, but on September 12, 2001, not many of us were thinking about exterminating Indians or stringing Chris Tucker up in a tree. I mean, isn’t it possible that the very real spectacle of 9-11 is what ‘frightened’ the country into its current state of resolve, and lead to its government marshalling resources in its own defense — and not some vague, homogenized burden of collective cultural guilt? Which, how do we pick that up, by the way? Do they sprinkle it onto McDonald’s fries? How does that work, exactly…?”

Chomsky: “The last time the US was threatened was the War of 1812. Since then it just conquers others. And somehow this engenders a sense that somebody is going to come after us –“

protein wisdom: “– Who have we ‘conquered’? Really. I mean, that sounds so Hessian. Or is it Prussian…?”*

Chomsky: “– So the country ends up being very frightened. There is a reason why Karl Rove is the most important person in the administration. He is the public relations expert in charge of crafting the images. So you can drive through the domestic agendas, carry out the international policies by frightening people and creating the impression that a powerful leader is going to save you from imminent destruction –“

protein wisdom: “– Ask the Spanish about those ‘images,’ why don’t ya –“

Chomsky: “– The Times virtually says it because it’s very hard to keep hidden. It is second nature.”

protein wisdom: “What is second nature?”

Chomsky: “It.”

protein wisdom: “Ah, yes. Next question: One of the new lexical constructions that I’d like you to comment on is ’embedded journalists.'”

Chomsky:

protein wisdom: “Please.”

Chomsky: “That’s an interesting one. It is interesting that journalists are willing to accept it. No honest journalist would be willing to describe himself or herself as ’embedded.’ To say, ‘I’m an embedded journalist'” is to say ‘I’m a government propagandist.’ But it’s accepted. And it helps implant the conception that anything we do is right and just; so therefore, if you’re embedded in an American unit, you’re objective. Actually, the same thing showed up, in some ways even more dramatically, in the Peter Arnett case. Peter Arnett is an experienced, respected journalist with a lot of achievements to his credit. He’s hated here precisely for that reason. The same reason Robert Fisk is hated.”

protein wisdom: “Uh huh. Be honest now: does what you just said make any sense to you?”

Chomsky: [laughs] “Ok, you got me –“

protein wisdom: [laughing] “– because, y’know, cuckoo cuckoo!”

Chomsky: “– thought maybe I could slip that one by…”

protein wisdom: “Now. You were an active and early dissident in the 1960s opposing US intervention in Indochina. You have now the perspective of what was going on then and what is going on now. Describe how dissent has evolved in the United States. Please.”

Chomsky: “Actually, there was another article in the New York Times that describes how the professors are antiwar activists, but the students aren’t. Not like it used to be, when the students were the antiwar activists. What the reporter is talking about is that around 1970 — and it’s true — by 1970 students were active antiwar protesters. But that’s after eight years of a U.S. war against South Vietnam, which by then had extended to all of Indochina, which had practically wiped the place out. For years, though, even in a place like Boston, a liberal city –“

protein wisdom: “– the hell you say –“

Chomsky: “– you couldn’t have public meetings against the war because they would be broken up by students, with the support of the media. You would have to have hundreds of state police around to allow speakers like me to escape unscathed. The protests came after years and years of war. By then, hundreds of thousands of people had been killed, much of Vietnam had been destroyed –“

protein wisdom: “– like you said would happen in Afghanistan –“

Chomsky: “– But all of that is wiped out of history, because it tells too much of the truth –“

protein wisdom: “– how ‘wiped out of history,’ exactly? I mean, you just retold it here. And I’m sure this isn’t the first time you’ve trotted it out, either.”

Chomsky: “Figure of speech.”

protein wisdom: “I see. Kinda expect more precise language from a linguist, though –“

Chomsky: “– moving on, it involved years and years of hard work of plenty of young people, mostly young, which finally ended up getting a protest movement.”

protein wisdom: “And that’s a more effective dynamic, in your estimation — having students involved, moreso than having the movement run by the old guard, the professors (many of them alumnists of those Vietnam era protests), as is happening today…?

Chomsky: “Well, who would you rather bang after a long day of shouting rhythmic slogans and carrying heavy cardboard signs: a wide-eyed 18-year old whose pink breasts are still perky with idealism, or some grizzled old poli-sci hag with an Iron Butterfly tattoo on her sagging, wrinkled ass?”

protein wisdom: “I take it that was a rhetorical question…”

Chomsky: “‘f you say so.”

protein wisdom: “Last question: How many antiwar linguists do you suppose it takes to change a lightbulb?”

Chomsky: “How many what now? –“

protein wisdom: “Antiwar linguists. Like you, for example. How many of you would it take to change a lightbulb?”

Chomsky: “Hmm. Well, that would depend on what you mean by ‘change,’ I should think… “

protein wisdom: “Exactly. You’re priceless, Noam. Don’t ever change.”

****
OTB
[originally published April 23 2004]