Wait, you mean it’s never really been about the environment — that it’s always been about money and power?
I’m OUTRAGED!
(h/t Dave O’C)
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- In The Mailbox: 07.18.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
S. Weasel gets to the nub with an assist from Bumblefuck.
I actually think that electric car drivers should pay for using the roads. But it shouldn’t be a flat rate per mile. Instead, the rate per mile should be based on the gross weight of the vehicle. Heavier cars put more wear on roads than lighter ones. With gas/diesel cars, that nicely works out so that the heavier cars get worse mileage, and pay more per mile driven.
The only tough part is recording the odometer reading every time you cross a state line, so that you can keep track of who needs to be paid for it. If you have an always-on GPS, the car could do that for you.
If the state wants to offset part of the user fee for electrics to encourage less pollution, that’s fine too. But let’s put that calculation out in the open where everyone can see it.
User fees are way better than “make the rich pay” and everyone else thinks it’s “free”.
What, did Oregon electric car owners think their Eco-mobiles floated over the roads, never putting any wear and tear on them?
The sanctimony, you can smell it from here.
The always-on GPS The Monster proposes also has the benefit of allowing various state and local governments to increase their revenue from speeding tickets. Drivers could automatically be fined for each speeding incident, since the GPS will indicate speed and location quite handily.
I can’t see a downside.
OTOH, I do NOT favor the idea of taxing drivers per mile, or having a government-monitored GPS device on my car. Just add some kind of highway fee to electric vehicle registration.
I can’t see a downside.
I can’t see a bottom, but I believe there must be one, somewhere…
Uh oh, the guy from the Oregon Electric Vehicle Association said “moneygrubbing”.
you mean… paying taxes *isn’t* the Great And Holy Good the proggtards have been trying to convince us it is?
Sounds like he may need to buy a new car…
You would think Oregon’s green commissars would wait till there were a wee bit more electric cars on the road before revealing the government taxing authority behind the curtain.
Of course electric cars need to pay for roads same as gasoline cars, so eventually it is going to happen–but it is not like electricity is not taxed (granted not for the roads). We should thank these government officials for ending at least part of the hidden subsidy for electric cars so soon. Electric vehicles in the near futer may have an expanded role in urban transporation, but they are not any more green than internal combustion vehicles, are not practical yet beyond short commutes, and are still more expensive.
If you tax something the government supposedly wants less of, it will suddenly want more of it.
If you subsidize something the government wants more of, as it gets more of it the government will tax it and therefore get less of it.
Maybe using the government to influence people’s behavior isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Don’t fall for the trap. They’re going to move to this system for everyone. So you pay a gas tax AND a mileage tax.
CBO issues a report a few weeks back about this exact thing. “mileage-based” user fees range from 5 to 50 cents per mile traveled.
Washington state wants to add a fee to the electric car registration. EV folks want the mileage dealo. Because that is the only way to change behavior, you know.
And that’s what this is all about.
And fuck them and their “revenues”. fuckers here in Michigan decided that all our signed needed to be 24% bigger or something, so in the midst of this horrible economy, they took all the signs down and replaced them with fractionally larger ones.
Yea. they need more money.
McGehee, wasn’t it Reagan who said the government’s view of commerce was “If it moves, tax it. If it’s still moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”?
Gas prices? Taxes?
Pish posh.
“Hey, if your car only gets…uh…8 miles per gallon…maybe you should…you know…uh…think about getting a trade in…”
Oh. That’s the solution.
Well allow me to retort, president golf cart.
Trade in? Like what? A shitty $40 thousand dollar Chevy Volt? The one you used my tax dollars to make? That sucks for me and mine. Cuz I’m upside down on my credit checked, standard mortgaged house. Can’t sell it as it’s worth half it’s 2006 value, and I have to commute 3 hours total to my new job everyday that pays 1/2 my last salary. And then you’re gonna tax me on the new enviro-car that I”ll have to take a second mortgage to buy? In addition to the $4.00/ gallon gas?
Gee, will the car be big enough for my frigging family to live in? Hope so. And what’s this 8 miles per gallon shit? I don’t drive to work on Flash Gordon’s rocket cycle. No. $8/ per gallon? That would be every vehicle in your motorcade sir. 8 fucking miles per gallon? I’d love to be a salesman on whatever used car lot you happen to walk on to. There is nothing street legal in these (lol) 57 states that only gets 8 miles per gallon.
8 miles per…Look, while it would be awesome to do so (especially in traffic), most of us sky God worshiping boom stick owners don’t actually drive an M1 Abrams tank to work.
If you wanna loosen up the 2nd Amendment, I will be the first to pay for 8 miles/ gallon and drive my new battle tank to work. Until then you should probably stick to talking about tire pressures and basketball.
“I just miss…I miss being anonymous”
Yeah, champ. We miss you being anonymous too. But take heart. You only have a few months and a few failures to go.
Of course we will have the system for everyone. There is too much money out there waiting to be grabbed. Again, revenues from tickets will skyrocket, because even if they don’t start using it that way, they will have a perfect infrastructure in place to do so later.
Excuse me, but I did not propose that the government be able to monitor anyone’s GPS. That was just a convenience for the driver in maintaining contemporaneous records of how many miles are driven in each state.
Anyone who wants to put words in my mouth can go fuck themselves.
I remember a better America.
Never said you did, The Monster. I simply took the next step. The government will not accept people voluntarily stating how much driving they do. They will have to monitor it.
Carin, it might not be the State of Michigan on their own: the Federal DOT has new regs that requires ALL road signage to conform to very specific standards by the end of this year, including size, color, and typeface (all capital block letters, ’cause some elderly people have trouble reading lower case letters from a distance…), and not just highway signage, but all road signage, even in towns, large or small.
From what was published in the local paper, these regulations must be followed if the municipality receives any federal highway funds – if an Interstate highway passes through your town, your town “receives” federal funds whether your town ever actually sees any federal money or not.
I believe so. Thing is, it doesn’t connect the dots for the dot-connecting-challenged who can’t figure out that it’s an infinite loop.
Yea, well then the Fed DOT has too much fucking time and money.
I watched them take down perfectly fine signs, dig and put up new posts, then this spring they installed their new signs.
I can understand using a new standard when REPLACING signs. Whatever. Those fuckers waste our money every chance they get
And I live on a major state road – M-24. Not a highway. Every sign was replaced. So this wasn’t just for highways.
And simply grabbing it fresh off the presses and leaving the rest of us alone doesn’t make enough sense. Elmer Fed might burn his fingers ’cause the presses are getting kinda warm, running 24/7/365 like that.
STIMULUS!
Whoops, I got this backwars:
Meant to say “too much sense,” except that neither approach makes any.
Slight correction: “…conform to very specific standards by the end of this year”, should have read:
I guess the time allowed to conform is negotiable.
They already do with commercial vehicles that pay motor fuel taxes and operate in more than one state.
I used to have to file reports for a company I worked for. Our drivers kept receipts for the fuel they bought for the trucks, and the mileage driven in each state. The form was used to determine whether we bought too much fuel in KS and not enough in MO for the pro-rata share of miles driven (or vice versa), and depending on which state’s fuel tax rate was higher, we might have to write a check or get a refund.
It was in this context that I anticipated a similar form would be filed by owners of electric vehicles, showing the total miles driven in each state. Knowing the ubiquity of GPS systems and smart-phone apps, it’s trivial to imagine people who frequently cross state lines as we do here in KC wanting help in logging how much mileage per state.
Yep, not just Interstate highways, ALL roads.
Spiny – it’s idiotic. they signs are a tiny bit bigger. big whoop.
If you can’t read the sign until it’s too late, you’re DRIVING TOO FUCKING FAST.
And sorry about the repeated use of the f-bomb. I find myself unable to properly express myself, when talking about the government, w/o it.
It’s like a tick.
But take heart. You only have a few months and a few failures to go.
Before he’s replaced by… Donald Trump?
No, they thought everyone else should foot the bill for their virtuousness. Everyone owes it to them, doing the hard work of saving the planet, one broke-dick, half-usable car at a time.
Carin, why do you hate the old people who NEED these signs to drive safely instead of careening wildly into schoolyards full of innocent minority children? You heartless Reichthugllican, you.
No, they thought everyone else should foot the bill for their virtuousness.
The virtue of driving a coal-fired car instead of one that runs on petrol?
Or the virtue of requiring your own body weight in toxic lead and vitriol in order to transport your fat ass?
What?! Coal-fired?! Electricity just comes out of the wall, all clean and friendly-like! And the batteries are made of dilithium crystal ions and such-like, not lead!
You are probably right. Fuck, Fuck, Fuckedy Fuck.
You have to remember whose money it is and who then has the power.
There, they have found those evil rich, clinging to their tax exemptions to increase the deficit.
Before he’s replaced by… Donald Trump?
Yeah. That’s gonna happen.
But I get your point. We got no one to run in 2012. At the same time we could run that bust of Churchill Captain “Above the Fray” gave back and probably win.
But we won’t do anything that smart. We’ll run Huckabee & Pence (Romney, Pawlenty, or whichever douche sucks the least) and the worst president in history will maybe get a second bite at the hope and change apple.
Rubio, Paul (jr, not his daddy) and Christie are scope locked on ’16.
Provided we survive the Mayan apocalypse.
And the Obama one.
Good times. Good times.
It’s always good for a laugh when someone who thinks he’s a commissar finds out he’s just another zek.
There, they have found those evil rich, clinging to their tax exemptions to increase the deficit.
The evil rich. Who, if under the age of 50, and make less than $107k/ yr, can contribute a whopping $5,000 to their Roth each year.
But wait!
You rich fuckers over 50 (and that make less than a joint nut of $169K) can contribute…wait for it…$6,000 a year.
That’s roughly the annual car note on a stupid Chevy Volt (sans gas and recharging the batterythinamabob)
Yes. Yes. All you filthy rich bastard Roth investors are like that pompous Russian in the Direct TV commercials.
With your gold plated treadmills and pocket giraffes.
Smoking hot chicks everywhere.
You are all filthy rich I tell you!
How dare you “steal” from Uncle Sugar!!!
The Obamapocalypse is far more likely.
Then, too, Roths could be a drag on the U.S. economy. Since no withdrawals are required, assets can lie idle indefinitely.
Idle? Did my Roth get invested in Under The Mattress, Inc. when I wasn’t looking?
The people of LA are lucky to have geniuses like Mr. Scorse to teach them money matters.
I look forward to the Mayan Apocalypse. If this country is the best we can do, time to hit the reset button.
All money is idle that is not taxed. Only more taxes can floor the accelerator and drive the economy
to new heightsinto the ditch.My comment on the Roth IRA article, de-typo-ified:
Idle? Did my Roth get invested in Under The Mattress, Inc. when I wasn’t looking?
LMAO
I was thinking the same when I saw that. “Idle?” The hell you say. That bitch better be earning compounding tax-free interest!”
But geoffb makes an interesting point. It’s all “idle” until the government gets it’s bite. I’ve had a free lunch. There is no such thing as “tax free”.
230 odd years ago our ancestors picked up arms and shot over that very thought.
I wonder what our “line in the sand” will be.
And if we’ll honor it.
A little OT, but as long as Pablo is posting Obama junk, I feel entitled myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1OJo7JUTIw
No, they thought that the touch of the wheels of their eco-friendly vehicles would actually heal the roads, just as it heals the planet.
we could run that bust of Churchill Captain “Above the Fray” gave back and probably win.
Yup.
But we won’t do anything that smart. We’ll run Huckabee & Pence (Romney, Pawlenty, or whichever douche sucks the least) and the worst president in history will maybe get a second bite at the hope and change apple.
Yup.
Megan McArdle on the Roth and all retirement accounts.
We demand a Car Czar!
Pablo…
Love the new avatar.
…is posting Obama junk
Ick.
Because of the pO!nography.
What did these people expect? Buy an electric car and avoid the gas tax and that money will be made up some other way.
Hippie, please.