The unions. They care:
This abdication of responsibility by the Senate Democrats exposes the true motives behind the powerful public-sector unions in the Wisconsin budget battle. Big Labor and their Senate Democrat pawns have shown that this is about political power and the bank accounts of the unions and not about the state employees they represent. The unions, after all, are claiming to promote state employees best interests.
Even though Senate Democrats announced on Sunday that they are considering a return to Wisconsin in the not-too-distant future, the Democrats and their union masters have already abandoned those that they claim to be fighting for. Rather than come to the table and reach a resolution on the fiscal crisis that Wisconsin faces, these 14 Democrat charlatans that flew the coop would rather cause state employees to be out of a job than to risk the ire of the public employee unions.
Where is the union demanding that these 14 Democrats return to prevent the layoffs that these Wisconsin employees face? Are the unions and Democrats really looking out for the best interests of these 1,500 employees and tens of thousands of others?
What irony the unions and Democrats face as they continue to hold out.
Like rain on your wedding day.
Only not.
Spoiled. Children.
They all need a spanking, and not the good kind.
The unionized chumps that I work with did the same thing to their newer “comrades”. Instead of taking furlough days (like all of us non-union employees have to do) they allowed the newest union hires to be laid off. Social workers are just so “compassionate” dont you know. It’s all a racket.
Bus driver run over by bus. THAT’S irony.
Union members getting screwed over by their union? That’s just par for the course, baby.
Mojo’s right. I’m waiting to hear about a man biting a dog.
See also that bit from a few days ago where the head of the NJ fireman’s union demanded that all union members who were not actively on-duty at the time had to attend a big “Christie’s a big poo-head!” rally of some sort. Attendance would be taken so the union would know “which local chapters to help in the future” (and presumably, which to not).
This is the head of the union, which supposedly works for the firemen, and ostensibly provides a service for the firemen, which they pay for (whether they like it or not), and he’s telling his “customers” that they have to go work for him on their day off.
Union workers should try life as a Free Man sometime. They might enjoy it.
I once looked into trying to get rid of the Union where I worked. (small shop)
I decided I needed to support my family by remaining among the living.
I did, however, point out to a few people that, on average, we were paying $30,000 a year in union dues and for that kind of money, we could have retained one hell of a lawyer to negotiate our contracts. I also pointed out the pittance we received in strike wages compared to what we paid in dues.
Never try to argue with people who are union true believers. Facts and figures don’t matter to a lot of union workers, because they’re emotionally invested in the idea that “The Company” owes them a living.
Never EVER use thw “W” word or the “M” word around me!!!
That being said, It’s been obvious since like, I don’t know, FOREVER? That the Unions are obsolete, wasteful, damaging and they probably don’t even know how to make really yummy cupcakes.
No, really. As a 14 yr old ( GOD I’m glad those days are gone, Carter and all…OH, wait )…I knew the Unions were destroying our steel and coal indusries. Back then I didn’t really get the connection.
I DO NOW…
Seen this?
“Sen. Bob Jauch, one of the 14 AWOL Democrats, said he hoped the compromise would serve as a blueprint for future negotiations. But he and Sen. Tim Cullen, who were both working with Walker’s administration, said the latest offer was inadequate.”
“Blueprint for future negotiations”????? Once you start compromising, they’ll keep stringing you along until they get everything they want and you get nothing you want. And they’ll trumpet their bipartisanship solution.
I think I’m gonna be sick…
I wonder how much of a “We can’t be complete hardasses here, so let’s try throwing them a bone.” there is here, given it’s Wisconsin and they’re so NIIIIIIICE when they’re not drawing Hitler moustaches. Walker has released some of the negotiation points, and the Dems aren’t bending, so maybe there’s a “We tried to work with them.” thing going on before they drop the hammer, and pass the collective bargaining stuff without the fleebaggers. Maybe I’m just getting a better vibe from this telling than the Daily Caller version.
Maybe, Pablo. I just don’t like to see any mention of polls when republicans are holding winning cards and all that is required is to go all in. Mentioning polls is a bad tell. Men The Master v The Mouth. The Mouth always loses. Bad juju.
That Journal Sentinel piece holds the secret:
Which means if they come back, it passes as is. They’d agree to revisit it in a Senate committee at a later time. The Assembly, which has a 60-38 split, doesn’t have to agree to anything. They get to play the bad guy if they feel like it. Regardless, once the Dems come back, it’s passed as is. Then, later, they’ll say that these concessions are the floor and we’ll say they’re the ceiling. Of a much larger budget slashing bill which makes a joke out of half these concessions. (CPI cap gone on salaries? Fine, state aid is going to be slashed regardless. Try to increase salaries in the face of millions and millions in reductions. Good luck with that.)
Round two would begin. But, in the meantime, the law of the land would be 100% of what we wanted.
They’re looking for a way to come home. If they want to run away again in a couple weeks over the full budget, they just gave away the full budget repair deal and killed the unions in this state. Genius!
In the meantime, Walker will just keep going in front of the TV cameras saying, “I’m trying to make this work here. Too bad they’re just taking their orders from the union bosses in Washington.”
Another tidbit:
You don’t even need to read between the lines here. They’re coming home… sooner, rather than later. That’s Cullen saying this, not me.
Miller has said it, Jauch has said it, and now Cullen has said it. If they’re actually willing to play hardball for the next two years, they have the world’s worst poker faces.
bh,
Where’s my two dollars (worth of homework;)?
Sorry, Danger. I will take a real look at it at some point but I’ve been working some long hours lately.
(I’ve peeked at it but haven’t watched it all or checked out any of the details.)
I can say one quick thing though, don’t send the guy any money. Secret reports and all of that? That makes my BS antenna go up. Analysts just don’t talk like this guy.
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp18090.htm
Is inflation a problem? Yes. Are there traditional safe havens? Yes.
You can act on all of this independently of this guy.
Yeah,
It wasn’t the “offer” I was concerned with; more the alarmity of his predictions and the legitimacy of his proof.
Agreed, that’s why I’d have to reconcile it with some independent data. Just haven’t done so yet.
…and hiding in Illinois instead of coming to work to do the jobs their being paid for.”
I’d definitely add that.
I’d spell “they’re” right, though.
wisconsin: land of losers; go clownheads. you sorry assh@@e can’t tell the effin’ 4th grade masturbation teachers to take a hike. viva leftard losers viva che. because it is very important to teach idiots otherwise known as children. ax the ezra klein
yea teachers can “teach” children how to be an idiot. oh pay them moore, michael
Yep, that’s definitely part of the message, Pablo.
In related news, we’re lowering the jacked up car insurance requirements the previous admin pushed through. People tend to like extra money in their pocket. And we’ll keep passing all kinds of things like this whenever we feel like it.
People get to vote in private and they value their own money much more than some random teacher they feel socially obligated to say nice things about in public.
Land of losers? Didn’t we just settle this in the Super Bowl, chief?
bh,
What is this disturbing nugget put forth by that propagandist Greg Sargent at the Plum Line regarding the wild success that the Dems are having gathering the necessary signatures to recall some of the Rethug Senators? I mean, I know he’s a rank liar and all, but I have to say it’s disturbing coming on the heels of Dean-o’s talk about having the fleebaggers hold out until the Rethugs! can be recalled.
It’s definitely dirty pool, while the fleebaggers are AWOL and all, and should be illegal somehow.
And are y’all doing anything to impede the process of the carpetbagger types that are traveling there on behalf of the DNC and big labor? Maybe at least reminding the public that of the peculiarity of all of these out-of-towners meddling in WI matters?
Just curious…
The problem with that strategy is that they have more vulnerable people, Bob.
So, folks like Chris Larsen or Lena Taylor or Spencer Cogs can think that’s a swell idea because they’re safe and full of Kool-Aid. Guys like Wirch, Holperin and Hanson feel a bit differently, I’m quite sure. Check it out. I know which side I’d prefer in a full recall battle.
In related news, we just had a census. Redistricting is going to be entertaining.
The way you can tell what I’m saying is correct is that a quarter of them wouldn’t be telling reporters they’re coming home in the short term if this strategy had any real hope. Five months is about the minimum you could swing a recall election and it’d be pretty easy to bump that date by a month or two.
Besides, it’s sorta hard to win in toss-up or Republican districts without doing a ton of retail politics. You have to knock on doors and stand out in front of supermarkets to win votes for the state legislature. Only way to win those seats is to kiss some babies and go to some church picnics. Hard to do that from Rockford, IL.
When the going gets tough, the cowardly feckless Dems run away, and try to subvert the democratic process. Fuck them.
I like to say this every once in a while so here goes:
We’ll win, they’ll lose. Bank on it.
Remember, this is a state carried by +13 points by Obama in ’08. Killing the unions, redistricting the state, changing all the anti-growth regulations and then cutting the budget until it cries is winning. Doing it all in the first year of power is winning while hopped up on monkey blood. Simple as that.
Poo-flinging monkeys might want to call that losing. That’s what poo-flinging monkeys do.
My point, which I guess I was too vague about, is that you don’t show your opponent any weaknesses that you may have or think you may have. Hence the Mike the Mouth moniker for the republicans. He talks himself into doing things in full view of his opponent at the table and reveals his thinking processes. Men the Master is just zen. He will sit and stare at you for hours without showing his thought process. Once you reveal your thinking, your opponent knows more about where to keep poking and prodding. So, yakking about worry about the polls just incentivizes the media to continue their push polling and bogus sampling to tip you over the edge.
My thinking on the article and the quotes anyways.
I hope you all continue to have Tiger Blood, bh.
WINNING !!!!!!
I’ll agree with you if it turns out that way, Steph. It won’t though. Think you’re reading this wrong.
(You’re not a poo-flinging monkey, btw. Newrouter is. It’s his special gift.)
WINNING!!!
It’s sorta funny how Charlie Sheen has somehow given us more laughs by being crazy than he ever has as a comedic actor, isn’t it?
Reading right or wrong is not my issue about the article. I don’t like the reps showing worry about the polls and I don’t like compromise talk like this:
“He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.”
Those items are potential budget busters and built in inflation of the numbers of union workers needed on the government payroll. Classroom size is a bullshit union featherbedding tactic that does not benefit students but benefits the unions. Education was much better and more productive in ‘teaching’ in the 50s and 60s and class sizes back then were in the 30 – 35 sized range. Reduced class sizes has no shown benefit in improving education quality. Unions along with the ACLU sued schools in the 60s so that separating students by ability was outlawed. After that, the ability of teachers to effectively teach those who wanted to learn and who had a demonstrated aptitude to do so took a back seat to disciplining the disruptive kids that didn’t and to protect the stupid kids self esteem from being put into the ‘science for dummies class.’ That necessitated the pivot from teaching a class with comparable skills to baby sitting the idjits and leaving the kids truly wanting to learn to the mercies of homework to master the work and dumbing down the curricula to try and keep the idjits engaged (which fails miserably) and it is more difficult to baby sit 20 than to teach 35. And hazardous duty pay? Seriously? Teachers are salaried so I don’t even know where to begin on the ‘mandatory overtime’ BS.
The fact that the republicans are airing their “feelings” about how their side is doing is unnecessarily undermining their position. I don’t give a shit if the dems want to discuss their next moves, I want them to lose and blabbing to the media should firm up the republican staunchiness as they can rightfully interpret the quotes. I just believe the republicans should not give ‘inside baseball’ information to the media like how they are concerned about the polls. It incentivizes the media to do more of the same to support the dems.
That OSHA shit matters not a lick, Steph. Just doesn’t. If it’s not covered by civil service in the first place, it’s just window dressing. It’s an hour’s drive from anything that actually matters. It’s a classic fig leaf for them to use to declare victory while losing.
The budget proper kills state aid. This might be inside baseball but it’s the most relevant point. Let’s say that we first agree that diamonds are trump so that they agree to come home. Then we agree that no red cards can be trump. Are diamonds trump? No, they’re not.
Notice how you’ve not heard anything about killing automatic dues collection? How no one will need to join a union anymore? How there will be a recert vote for every public union in Wisco within a year? The shit that will kill the unions is all there. In fact, it’s ALL still there unless they agree to the full budget that will cut all spending across the board by around 7% along with about two dozen great regulatory changes.
And, seriously, turn on the radio around here for fifteen minutes and you’ll hear Walker say how he could give two shits about the polls because he’s been winning with bad polling for his entire career. We don’t have to encourage the press to run fixed or negative polls by the way. It’s what they do. For free. Every single day.
Recognize a huge win when you see one. There’s one right in front of us.
At a certain point we should just make predictions and put some sort of wager on it.
What would be our metric? What would be our bet?
I’m not intimate with the details of the union negotiating up there, so I’ll take your word on those issues.
I just looked at the statements from the standpoint of if I was a business owner struggling to stay afloat and that if I agreed to allow my employees ‘to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, … collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, and hazardous duty pay’ I have no doubt I would continue to have budgetary issues as my fixed OH escalated (maybe or not more slowly) as the union just ratcheted up their demands for those items (they will try to make up for their losses in the stuff they cave to – a left hand/right hand move of their demands).
The classroom size provision is akin to white collar workers negotiating for larger cubicles thereby necessitating my renting larger space for more $$ or my expanding my building’s size also requiring more $$.
I would assume that one of the probable outcomes of the budget battle to come could be closure of some schools and laying off some teachers which is difficult if the pupil/teacher ration can’t change and the pupil number is fixed (which it is).
Those compromises are not conducive to long term health of a struggling company – in the long run.
ration/ ratio potatoe/ potato
long term health… in the long run. Call Money Python! Sheesh.
My current prediction is that Walker wins, straight up. When? I have no idea. Probably in the next 15 days, though, before the actual layoffs start.
My griping is mostly process stuff… I just don’t like to see the Rs doing stupid stuff like tells and caving and shit like that. It ain’t smart – in the long run. The dems will take note for the future and ratchet up what they think worked the next time the reps get all staunchy and cost-cutty. Which BTW I think the dems are misjudging on the whole “shut down the federal gov’t” issue. This time the public is pulling for shut down.
Truth on Parade. Rep Milroy: ‘If people don’t like paying union dues that are used to support Dem candidates, they can always get another job.’
Bastard.
I hear your concern and shared it myself for a bit, Steph. When I was told it would be handled not in this bill but the next, I relaxed.
As it stands, if they come back because of our “cave” they give us the whole budget repair bill. If they stay, they give us the full budget bill while getting promises that will essentially be superseded by the later bill.
After that? Fiscal matters will be settled and we’ll get anything we want until ’12.
Towards the gamble I was going to make the same bet myself. Full win, two weeks or less. (Yes, I still count a couple minor things that later don’t matter as a full win.)
Do Wisco’s reps meet annually or every other year? Ga reps meet annually but only for 40 days. Period. Anything else is special session and rarely done and the budgets are annual. I thought I read somewhere that Wisco met every two years or had two year budgets or something along those lines.
What if they flee again on the later bill? And then cite that “republicans played dirty pool last time and are breaking their promises to us?” I just get Bush the First jitters whenever I hear “fix/cut it in the next” out of any pols mouth. Burned/2Xshy.
Two year budget, Steph. In session every year. You can check out the schedule here but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a special session or two called.
If they flee again on the later bill (the full budget) they just gave up the budget repair bill by coming back in the first place and gave up most their leverage. After the full budget it doesn’t really matter anymore for how we have things set up.
Either they stay away for two years or they just come back and lose until ’12.
…lose until ’13.
Thanks for the info.
moore
I always like it when I find the old donut crumblies in mine.
If you don’t like working for the union you can always get another job.
Up really is down, the pigs really are walking on their hind legs.