Who knew?
No, really. Is it possible the administration (and John McCain, naturally) backed the wrong horse? That they were completely unprepared? That, for the sake of appearances, they urged the ouster of a long-time ally — without having a plan for any kind of transition, and without having an adequate understanding of the players?
The problem is, once you’ve come out for FREEDOM! — and you’re all about appearances to begin with — backpedaling gracefully is difficult. So rather than point to your own opportunistic and superficial machinations as the reason for what is becoming a clear clusterfuck, you start flailing around for plausible excuses, from the failure of Bush-era policy, to an annoyance at the legacy media for the administration’s having lost the narrative.
Who knows what’s going to happen in Egypt. All I can tell you for sure at this point is that the current administration has seemed more interested in framing the story in a way that works for them than they have been in what the outcome is. And in their rush to continuously get out in front of things, they’ve taken conflicting positions, irritated allies, and worsened the situation on the ground nearly everywhere in the region.
But that’s okay, so long as you use your serious voice and your platitudes about human rights and freedom…
Hmmm. You have the link at the Pub about the U.S. Navy battle group in the Suez Canal. That is unusual. Military ships go through the canal all the time, but they do not camp out in it. Something is up.
Limbaugh today also has a great montage of all the conflicting statements fromt the “Regime”. The Obama Regime. The best is Obama sending a retired State Department guy to Egypt to encourage Mubarak to leave, only to have the guy come back and tell Obama that Mubarak needs to stay in place for the time being.
Let’s just say Rush is on a roll today.
I got to thinking the other day that maybe President Dipstick’s crappy treatment of England was an evil genius plan to force them out of the EU–that by treating them like every other European country, instead of a special ally–he was trying to make them reconsider being part of the euro-zone.
And then I see stuff like this and I realize that no, he’s just an idiot.
Mubarak is eventually leaving one way or the other. The guy is sick, in his eighties, not running for re-election, and there is little chance now that Gamal Mubarak is going to take over for him (the Egypitan military was against his succession even before these recent events). Mubarak, while the figurehead and important, does not really run Egypt on his own. The Egyptian military runs Egypt. And chances are the military are going to continue to run Egypt (although arguably they should open up the economy and scale back some of their counterproductive anti growth regulations*). We need to softly push for a transitioned shift that does not create a perfect opportunity for the Muslim Brotherhood to fuck things up in Egypt.
* Obama is not optimum for counseling anyone on that.
Who the military backs is what’s important. I’ve said from day one Egypt will remain controlled by the military, at least on some level.
Always watch what the military is getting ready to do. If they suddenly decide they don’t like you so much any more, well ask Nicolae Ceausescu how that works out.
What is the question?
If it’s only a question like “what do we think?”, then we can bandy that about and see. If, on the other hand, the question is what will happen with certainty in Egypt, then we’ll have very little to say, simply because we don’t know. We can foreground our preferences as a means to test the various probabilities of outcome juxtaposed with the Obama administration’s conduct, but this of course has little to no effect on actual outcomes. We might be capable of distilling a course of action we believe would lead to the outcomes we prefer, but even this possibility is doubtful, given our lack of detailed knowledge of the constantly shifting situation on the ground, in the streets and in the rooms where their opponent powers reside.
If, in another alternative, the Egyptians in revolt have raised anew for themselves the question, “How shall we live; what will our best Egyptian political organization look like?”, and in raising this old question anew, stir many others across the world to ask this question of themselves and their own circumstances, then we too can look to ourselves and our political organization and what we think it ought best to be, then think and talk about that (which is only nominally connected to the Egyptians’ situation by means of the commonality of our shared humanity, and the persistence of this question generally in the affairs of men).
and
made me laugh. Still, if Fisk was ever right about anything, it would be about Bumbles being caught in the headlights.
Norm must be Noam’s even stupider brother. And Joe, I really wouldn’t read too much into the Marine presence – we are going to need every last one of them in case of an evac of US citizens.
Fundamental Islamic Sex?
I would think that is a contradiction in terms (worms?).
Interview with Google Executive Wael Ghonim, who was held 12 days.
Who knows what’s going to happen in Egypt? All I can tell you for sure at this point is that the current administration has seemed more interested in framing the story in a way that works for them than they have been in what the outcome is.
This is the nugget to take away from current events. In this, as in all things, the question is not “What’s best for Egypt?” Nor is it “What’s best for the United States?” In this, as in all things, the question is “How do we manage the situation so that we look as good as possible?”
Obama was a marketing creation from Day 1, and he will remain a marketing creation until the end. With luck, his handlers and his adoring masses will tire of him sooner than later. Fortunately, that particular trajectory gets steeper with each passing week; unfortunately, the trajectory of the nation as a whole is running parallel with it.
I’m really starting to hope Obama decides to retire early due to health concerns. At least with a President Biden, there wouldn’t be all this pretense that the guy behind the desk is a competent professional.
PS –
no matter what the Arab governments think about the USA, they are all thanking their lucky stars that, in two years, the biggest ashole who has ever been the US president will be gone…
And the US will remain controlled by a band of idiots, at least at the highest level.
Who knew smart diplomacy was so vain and feckless?
Yes. And the Egyptian military, if not controlled by the US military, is pretty much completely beholding to them for the ability to function.
Which gives rise to another emerging perspective as this develops. As flat footed as 44 and State appeared to have been caught, CENTCOM decidedly has not. Conducting combat in the region with increasing efficiency for seven years does that.
If the rumors are true and 44 is as detached from the joint chiefs as has been surmised, perhaps there’s a “you just do what you do” arrangement in place. And a void of connection between the WH and military intel.
The big stick matters, thankfully, whether the talk is soft or foolish. Which makes the ineptitude of 44 and SECSTATE conducting foreign policy in public a side show. 44’s weakness may prove to be a feature for our benevolent empire.
35% of all Egyptians are illiterate
45% of all Egyptian women are illiterate
90% of Egyptian women suffer genital mutilation
This is NOT a recipe for a functional democracy.
AND, where is the US women’s movement about the treatment of Arab women?
“Let me introduce you to Barry Obama. He’s really smart. Hey Barry, say something smart.”
“Uh……..uh…………”
“See?”
90% of Egyptian women suffer genital mutilation
This is NOT a recipe for a functional democracy.
It definitely is NOT a recipe for the pursuit of happiness.
I honestly don’t know of anyone who said that supporting democracy in the Middle East was going to be easy.
I find it a bit tiresome when people point to the Hamas takeover of Gaza after “free” elections and our subsequent cutting of ties with them as somehow contradictory. We supported the democratic movement there. The citizens voted in Hamas (whether or not it was a clean election is obviously up for debate). Great. Fabulous. Now they get to live with their decision. And we get to act in our best interests and deal with them accordingly. We chose to recognize them for the terrorists they are, and break off diplomatic relations. There is absolutely no double-standard there.
The same thing will probably happen in Egypt. Had we followed a consistent foreign policy at least since ’01, then our moral standing in the Middle-East would be much more solid. I would have absolutely no problem with a consistent position re: Mubarak of “you need to institute reforms, now.” We should have been doing that for the last couple of decades, at least.
But we are, once again, being reactive, rather than proactive. And the result is going to be the worst of all possible worlds. Not only will Muslim Brotherhood take over, but the street will soak up their hateful rhetoric.
There are no short-term happy answers here. But if we had stayed the course, as Bush had started the process after 9/11, we might actually be able to reap some of the benefits. Democracy’s an ugly thing, at times. Hell, look at who we’ve got running the asylum here….
But if we held to a consistent foreign policy of promoting individual rights and freedoms, stood strong with our true allies, supported the movements in those autocratic/fascist countries that needed a little ass-kicking (Green Revolution in Iran anyone?), the long-term prospects for true freedom would be much brighter.
I have no problem with the principal of our government taking Mubarak to task. I have an enormous problem with the hypocrisy of it. After fundamentally refuting Bush’s foreign policy, now Obama wants to put on airs of supporting some vague concept of maybe having a position that democracy around the world might be an okey-dokey thing.
Fuck that shit. Obama needs to shut the hell up and butt the fuck out. It’s time for the adults to get involved. He needs to take his Tonka truck and go back to playing in the sandbox.
the important thing is that America comes out of this looking like a cowardly dictator-loving whore, and I think in most people’s minds we’ve succeeded wildly
I took the liberty of editing that last post Happy. You can thank me later.
“and I think in most people’s minds we’ve succeeded wildly”
I think you wildly exaggerate your ability to read most peoples minds.
Egypt is an ally? Egypt is a violent dirty bought and paid for whore what will turn on us the second we stop sending her our increasingly devalued monies.
They know something Jimmy Carter’s doctor isn’t telling him?
Oh. Never mind.
FTFY.
the important thing is that America comes out of this looking like a cowardly dictator-loving whore, and I think in most people’s minds we’ve succeeded wildly
Where should our support have been directed, specifically?
happyfeet posted on 2/9 @ 2:56 pm
Egypt is an ally? Egypt is a violent dirty bought and paid for whore what will turn on us the second we stop sending her our increasingly devalued monies.
It mostly comes in the form of military equipment made in the good ol’ USA. But I suppose we could go back to those golden years under Nassar. Or maybe flash forward to Algeria now. But there is no reason to not to treat a whore with good manners. Even if she is dirty. Because the other whores will notice.
Like SW says, I wouldn’t read too much into the presence of the Kearsarge amphibious ready group in the Suez Joe. Enterprise, who was on her way to the Gulf of Oman to joint the 5th fleet, has been held in the eastern Medeterrainian as well as additional air assets deployed to peace-keeping bases in sinai.
I think of all these movements as kind of an insurance policy of sorts; to be ready to both evacuate US embassy personnel and “assist” the Egyptian military in interdicting any Hamas, or other, operators with bad intent who might want to take over the canal or “go to work” in the Sinai should pandemonium break out.
There’s a whole lot of snake-eaters on “Special K”, and if the shit hits the fan I’m guessing they won’t let a crisis go to waste and will go to work greasing some Tangos…
And MC nails it when he says that regardless of how badly O!& CO. have screwed the pooch on this one, you can count on DoD to have taken the necessary precaution and prepared for a broad range of contingencies.
bah
Wow. I guess nobody could argue with that.
“And MC nails it when he says that regardless of how badly O!& CO. have screwed the pooch on this one, you can count on DoD to have taken the necessary precaution and prepared for a broad range of contingencies.”
– If that is the case, history would be repeating itself, since the DoD, with States help in that instance, did exactly the same thing starting in the late 60’s right up through ’75, implementing MAD and essentially ignoring the oval office through it all.
Happy, you are at your best when laconic.
Bob, I am not surprised by the U.S. Navy being in the Med or the Red Sea, but I never saw them hang out in the Canal itself. Lake Timsah is not very big (it may be five square miles, but most of it is less than 3 feet deep). The Canal is essentially a large ditch in the sand that has to be constantly dredged to stay open. You do not park there without close coordination between US DoD and the Egyptian military.
I can tell you that the suez canal is a decent swim across (and back), at night, when you have drank half a bottle of tequila.
This gives you and idea of the scale of this thing.
I can’t speak to vessels “hanging out” in the Suez canal Joe; the one I was on always passed through completely. But as I recall the Canal is 11 or 12 fathoms ( I could be wrong here, and am too busy to check right now) and the channel pretty wide, so I’m guessing there’s room for the Kearsarge and the other ships in the group to anchor.
I personally thought they would anchor in the great Bitter lake instead, but, you know, what do I know.
And I’d feel confident speculating that there is probably more communication between DoD and the Egyptian military than there is between the State Department and their counterparts.
a bunch of capitalists/western white male christians/jews would make that desert bloom
drudge
Who’s Your Daddy?… Saudi King Told Obama Not to Humiliate Mubarak
gateway pundit
“Nice work, Barack.
You’ve just pi$$ed off every American ally in the Middle East… But, at least Iran is happy.
“
Well if Iran is happy, then Barry is happy. We’re making new friends.
Today, we have three bird farms in the vicinity. Atlantic flattop USS Enterprise is in port in Marmaris, Turkey, and Pacific flattops USS Abraham Lincoln and Carl Vinson are in the Arabian Sea east of Oman possibly full buster west – they could be in the Red Sea very quickly which was where Kearsarge was ‘hanging out’ until January 28th. Enterprise was well west of Spain a few days ago and Vinson was in Indonesia. So as Bob said, …prepared for a broad range of contingencies… is for certain. Depending on Kearsarge’s expeditionary group’s possible weaponry, for example, just that expeditionary group could have more firepower available than was expended in all of WWII. No telling how many boomers are about, they don’t advertize and you can’t see them from space. And this is just the Navy, God bless ’em.
We aren’t allowing no jihad.
“We aren’t allowing no jihad.”
dude bumblefuck factor.
My guess is there is at least a boomer in the Gulf of Oman/Arabian sea. There could be one in the Med too, but a commander might think that a bit “constrained”.
Nobody knows…
Enterprise is configured topside as a Carrier Strike Group currently consisting of the Enterprise, the guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf, the guided-missile destroyers USS Bulkeley, USS Barry, and USS Mason, and USNS Arctic. A Los Angeles-class attack submarine is usually deployed with a CSG. But like Bob says, we don’t know about the boomer.
I can’t get the current configuration of Vinson and Lincoln, but you’d expect that they’d have a similar cruiser/destroyer group.
Hmmm…
My bold.
We might be saber-rattling but we’re also now actively encouraging that camel to put his nose into the tent.
And possibly boomer(s).
What was that Johnson used to say (at least I think it was Johnson): Better to have ’em in the tent pissing out than out of the tent pissing in?
Never seems to occur to them that the only reason they’re willing to be in the tent in the first place is to make it easier to piss all over your shoes.
where is the US women’s movement about the treatment of Arab women?
Same place they’ve always been: on the Far Left, making sure they’re agin anything the wingers are fer, cf. Glenn “I may be crazy but I’m also right” Beck’s noticing that the Left and the Jihadis both want to take down the West and so don’t antagonize each other at this point.
Yep.
It is hard to tell if these are features or bugs for the Barcky Obumblefuck administration.
Look, Im no O! fan but Im sure that Bush would do no better in this case. The plain fact is that Mubarrak is/was a staunch ally. I’m not sure what a POTUS could realistically do here. If they back the freedom set they back, statistically speaking, the next Iran. If they back Mubbarak, they are riding a knuckle breaking, fingernail pulling horse who just happens to do a lot of very, very handy things for us.
Its a brutal choice between morals and what’s best for the nation.
Im glad I dont have to make that call.
Roddy – Bush would not have approached this in a manner to try to make himself look good, of at it is certain. Barcky has not led, he as guessed. And then guessed. Then did something for showed. Guessed some more. Add in a couple toothless speeches.
Why take gratuitous swipes at former President Bush? He hasn’t been in office in over two years for crying out loud, has had no ability to react to events in that intervening time and hence can’t be held accountable for our current policies toward Egypt or Saudia Arabia, let alone the mess Obama has created betwixt the Israelis and Palestinians. Sheesh.
Oddly, I sorta like Arafat’s line: “Today I have come bearing an olive branch and a freedom fighter’s gun.”
They might appreciate the irony. Meaning: it’s their choice but they should make no mistake as to our reaction.
To me, that would entail telling the Egyptians (Gibbs, Obama and Clinton could do this, for instance) that the MB is not a legitimate contributor to any political effort and that allowing them to sit at the table means they’re making the choice to sit with our enemies.
Why in the world do we pretend that we have no national interests? They don’t believe it anyways so why are we even trying to sell it?
Seems a little honesty might be useful.
Circle that. Exactly where our policy should be, but poor Obama can’t tell an enemy from a friend.
Bh, 44 and SECSTATE feel that they have to say these things to be perceived as inclusive. But they’re mostly compaigning for their constituencies in the US. The foreign policy people at STATE are saying that the ‘Muslim Brotherhood is a shadow of its former self’ and they might be buying that.
Some form of the Egyptian military will control Egypt going forward – hopefully with some social reforms.
The saber-rattling is to keep anyone that may have a mind to do it from implementing more terrorist activities in the region in the near term. We know that Hamas – and possibly AQ – has leaked cells into the Sinai – and were probably behind the gas line attacks. It would be great to establish a link between what Hamas is doing from Gaza with folks inside of the MB in Egypt, time will tell.
So do we wait until we see that the combination of the military, April 6, secular organizations, and MB along with other religious groups can form a pragmatic secular government like Turkey’s AKP? Or do we try to penetrate the rather opaque MB covertly and take out its militant arm if its renouncement of violence is not true? Or take on the emerging Caliphate now?
It’s a challenging dance. I don’t think our foreign policy apparatus is capable. But I know our military is.
Yes, yes and qualified yes.
The qualification feels necessary because of our present CinC and his voting base of fools.
To me, that would entail telling the Egyptians (Gibbs, Obama and Clinton could do this, for instance) that the MB is not a legitimate contributor to any political effort and that allowing them to sit at the table means they’re making the choice to sit with our enemies.
Circle that. Exactly where our policy should be, but poor Obama can’t tell an enemy from a friend.
I fear the problem is deeper and that Obama can indeed tell his friends from his foes, BUT his friends and his enemies are the exact opposite of mine.
Bush made a decision, explained it, and stuck with it. ObamaCo has taken every position, has had its own state department envoy (along with the VP) contradict whatever the “official” position of the White House was at the time, and now, he’s getting called out by Diane Feinstein. He didn’t see this coming, and when it came, he hasn’t had a clue what to do — and is in fact worsening the situation by trying to look like he knows what he’s doing, and by trying to play this for political gain with both his base and a Muslim world he clearly doesn’t understand and who is happy to use our bully pulpited useful idiot to achieve their aims.
No comparison between the two: Bush was respected and not liked; Obama is a joke. And not liked even by our allies.
We saw Obama’s reaction to the Russian invasion of puny Georgia. “Hey! Everybody stop with the violence.” He hadn’t a clue then and doesn’t now. Nothing’s changed.
I never thought I’d be so happy for us to have the military-industrial complex.
Remember during the campaign when they generated that meme about Obama being a poker player (while McCain was a bingo player or something) and what that told us about his temperament and abilities?
Of all the lies, of all the media framing, out of the entire damn narrative they constructed, that might be the single purest bit of bullshit they peddled.
Obama can’t tell an enemy from a friend.
Oh yes he can. It’s just that his enemies and America’s enemies don’t necessarily overlap.
I don’t remember that one bh. Lucky for McCain that he’s not a poker player –the media would’ve been worried about his gambling addiction.
We can let Obama explain his enemies to America, then sit back to see whether America agrees with him about them. I’ll wager he hasn’t the balls. Oh sure, he’ll play little signally games like sending back the bust of Churchill. How come he hasn’t been quizzed on that one? Oh, right, the media is willing to give him every pass so no explanation is necessary.
– I’ll be so happy to see 2012.
– Bumbblefuck and his lunitic/delusional base is worse than anyone could have imagined.
Here you go.
It’s almost comical to read it again.
By the way, you totally nailed it, Ernst:
My bold, obviously. They really are shameless.
Correct on the depth in the channel. My observation too on all trafic, but especially military trafic. The banks have a lot of sand and aren’t steep (it is about a 50% slope). So the width of the navigable canal channel is very deceptive. There is no room for docking large ships in the canal’s regular channel without greatly restricting access.
I would think that too…are they doing Timsah for a show of force? 500,000+ live in Ismailia. The population around the Great Bitter Lake is far less.
Humdu’llah for that.
– McCain was brokem while imprisoned. Of that much I’m sure. He seems to have spent all the years since proving he’s a good guy that “didn’t deserve” what happened to him. I don’t think he’s fully functional in any meaningful way.
– The Left must have realized the moment they saw he was the R teams candidate that they would run the table. He is the penultimate example of the stuffed shirt status quo “I got mine, fuck you” old guard GOP cronyism. The perfect foil for their youth movement thumb in mommy and daddy’s eye cult base. Palin throws a monkey wrench into that sweet picture of stagnent polarity. Reason they hate and fear her so damn much.
They really are shameless.
The good husseys always are. Compensation for having no self-respect perhaps?
McCain was brokem while imprisoned
I believe he’s admitted as much, hasn’t he?
He seems to have spent all the years since proving he’s a good guy that “didn’t deserve” what happened to him.
My take on his campaign was that he was running because he deserved that ultimate capstone to a life of public service.
– The Left must have realized the moment they saw he was the R teams candidate that they would run the table.
He might have taken HIllary! I don’t know. It’s always struck me that he mistook the Lamestream Fucken Media’s love for a Republican willing to criticize other Republicans for love for him personally. I imagnine it was a bitter disappointment for him when they treated him like any other Republican presidential candidate.
When his ad guy (one of those no labels assholes now, I believe) said during the primaries that he wouldn’t want to work against a black democrat, and McCain didn’t fire him then, I knew he’d lose in November.
But what the hell, when you set out to show that you can lose gracefully, that’s exactly what you’ll end up doing.
“It’s always struck me that he mistook the Lamestream Fucken Media’s love for a Republican willing to criticize other Republicans for love for him personally. I imagnine it was a bitter disappointment for him when they treated him like any other Republican presidential candidate.”
– He very well could be that totally unintuitive, but the MFM’s intentions to game the election in any way they could was openly arrogant, so everyone else knew.
– If he was the obligatory war hero candidate, it’s doubtful the GOP will get away with anything like that next time. Just as the Left hijacked the Dem’s, the Right will hijack the Reps. 2010 was just stage one.
SECSTATE was warned.
https://proteinwisdom.com/pub/?p=3503
– Here’s a little tidbit you may be reading about soon. I doubt the MFM can rune a full cover-up on an “interesting” interview a local reporter here in San Diego had with a chief port inspector officer recently. The reporter was asking the port homeland defense officer, head of the inspection group screening for any types of terrorist devices entering the country. During the interview the officer was asked if any nuclear devices or dirty bomb materials had been discovered over the years. He said “not in the port of San Diego”. Then he was asked if any had been discovered anywhere else and he said “yes”. Off camera the local head of HLD interrupted the interview, saying “we don’t comment on any other port”. Later the same question was asked concerning other mass types of terrorist devices, and again he said yes “Other places”, and again he was interuppted by the HLD representative. The TV station later asked for a clarification, and got the same non-answer 23 days later by mail.
– So wtf. Is there things the public doesn’t know?
According to Napolitano herself, we are at our most vulnerable since 911. Which is why it’s imperative that John McCain, Lindsay Graham, Jeb and George Bush, and others, push for “comprehensive immigration reform” — while we as a country pretend that the Muslim threat in the US is nothing but the fevered imaginings of racist xenophobe haters who hate.
– If it comes out that such materials have been discovered and that info was kept from the public, Bumbblefuck is going to be in even deeper shit than he already is, and with the total three monkeys approach of the Left to all thoughts of Islamic extremism, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near a Progressive if that’s the case.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
The stakes and the humiliation for this country are too great to engage in any schadenfreud.
Those immigration reformers know time is not on their side. Why do you think they were so desperate for health care reform last year? They know their window is closing.
Barack Hussein Obama bowed once before to the Saudi King, Joe, so why should that King expect any less from BHO than full and abject compliance to his wishes?
Explains some of the weather vane policy antics coming from BHO’s administration.
Comprehensive immigration reform is the only way to keep Al Qaeda and the Mexican drug cartels from joining forces.
Geez you guys!
Comprehensive immigration reform is the only way to cool an overheated planet and stop the rising of the oceans.
Without comprehensive immigration reform the enemies of FREEDOM! will have won.
Apparently, Mubarak will step down today. Here we go, kids.
– Interesting that the announcement apparently originated with the military. A little *nudge* perhaps?
Comprehensive immigration reform will pay off my mortgage and all my credit cards.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform will make Christopher Reeve get out of his wheelchair and dance the lambada… which will be especially impressive now.