In the latest installment of the Patterico rehabilition tour, Frey tries taking a shot at me for being a “purist” and a demagogue — and hamfistedly attempts to use Glenn Reynolds as his intellectual body armor (after having previously tried on Michele Malkin for size). Honestly, watching him flail about like this would be funny were it not so stunningly pathetic.
Responding to instances of Chris Christie criticism from some on the right, Reynolds writes, “Don’t demand perfection, or you’ll be disappointed. Demand as good as you can get, and move ahead. Political change is a process, not an event.” To which Frey replies, “Bingo. This is precisely what I have been saying for months.”
— And yet it was Frey who was so upset with what the GOP primary voters of Delaware had done in nominating a candidate that he — a Californian — found “kooky” and unpolished, that he set about trying completely to undercut her chances at winning the Senate race.
Too, it was Frey who thought that seating Republicans like Mike Castle — who backed cap and trade and the DISCLOSE Act (giving both proposals their potential “bi-partisan” veneer) and then, having lost the GOP primary, petulantly refused to endorse his party’s candidate in the general election — was the better play than backing conservative candidates who, by running on constitutional principles, forced their opponents to move to the right. The event of winning the Senate back, for Frey, was more important than the process of building on the Tea Party message and running candidates based on principle rather than some measure of “electability” (as decided upon, incidentally, by the same people who gave us John McCain, engineered the 2006 and 2008 electoral drubbings, and cleared the way for a socialist president).
Which is to say, rather than back the candidate Delaware Republicans thought best represented their interests, Frey — worried that the left would “laugh” and concerned about O’Donnell’s “electability” — decided to put up post after post highlighting her supposed imperfections.
Imperfections. Meaning, not perfection. Which, I read somewhere recently, we shouldn’t be demanding from our politicians.
Here’s the thing Frey doesn’t seem to understand: conservatives and classical liberals didn’t reject Mike Castle or Lisa Murkowski because they aren’t perfect. We rejected them because they aren’t conservative or classically liberal. Conversely, we backed Christine O’Donnell and Joe Miller because they were the most conservative and classically liberal candidates available.
That should be the Bingo! moment Frey takes away from this. Instead, he sees nothing but vindication for his rudderless “pragmatism”.
A pity, that.
Demand as good as you can get, and move ahead is a crappy mantra. I like Casey Casem’s more better where he says keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars. The stars! That’s very inspirational. I can work with that. Demand as good as you can get, and move ahead doesn’t get it.
*kasem* … I think
that looks right anyway
I can see intentionalists from my house.
Patrick Frey needs a lesson in close reading.
No. That’s too charitable. Patrick Frey is in this instance a textbook example of reader-response, and comprehending what one wants to comprehend.
(repeating myself because it’s late)
In fairness, Reynolds’s admonition to refrain from demanding perfection applies to all factions, to those who would demand an ideologically pure candidate as well as to those who would demand that the message be delivered by a perfectly packaged messenger.
At least that’s what I understood him to be saying.
Wanting someone running as a Republican to govern from conservative or constitutional principles is not the same as demanding ideological purity. It is asking that the candidate actually be what he claims to be.
That’s a good point Jeff. And on that point, to the extent that conservatives and classical liberals have supported less than perfectly principled conservatives/constitutionalists (e.g. Mark Kirk, Scott Brown, Carly Fiorina) I think we “purists” have shown more pragmatism than the “pragmatists” who think that rearranging the deck chairs yet again will magically bring about the necessary course correction.
my perfect candidate would be ‘ken-doll- a republican/tea party-malibu barbie..
cuz if “i was mad as hell, and i’m not gonna take it anymore!”- i could take them out on the sidewalk and burn the with a magnifying glass..
plus- after u eat a popsicle and u have that lil wood stick in ur hand-it’s really easy to make it into a shiv
not that i want to start a revolution or any
If I could play devil’s advocate, Jeff, as far as I know, Castle didn’t claim to be anything other than what he was. Conversely, O’Donnell may have said the right things, but (in my view) it was clearly a mistake to nominate her. She was simply unelectable. She had way too much personal baggage. I don’t see how you can argue with the logic of saying that if we’re going to have a placeholder, better a Republican who will give us numbers and at least vote with us most of the time, instead of a Democrat.
Castle didn’t claim to be anything other than what he was.
That would be a big-government/corporatist in the (ostensibly) small government/individualist party, wouldn’t it?
It was precisely that call to rearrange the deck chairs yet again that led me to write the post Frey used to “prove” my demagoguery.
I don’t care about party affiliation. And it seems to me that the real “purists” are those who demand that conservatives and classical liberals sell out their principles in order to vote for one of the “team”. Trying to shame us by calling us “purists” and intimating that we’re hurting conservatism by insisting that it be, you know, conservative, is just their hamhanded way of bullying.
Yes, but read the rest of my comment.
Mr. Christie said cap n trade whore Mike Castle was all about controlling spending and cutting back the size of government cause nothing says smaller smarter government like cap n cap n cap n trade
That was directed at Ernst. Jeff, you’re kind of talking past what I said. My point had nothing to do with who’s a purist and who isn’t. It makes no sense to nominate a candidate who will only get a Democrat elected. If the candidate who wins isn’t to our liking ideologically, at least if he’s a Republican he counts towards committee chairmanships, and will presumably vote with the party on most issues.
(in my view) it was clearly a mistake to nominate her
Respectfully, CraigC, if it was a mistake, it was a mistake the Republican primary voters in Delaware were entitled to make. Just as the general electorate in Delaware was entitled to the mistake of electing a self-professed bearded Marxist.
Yeah. I heard that during the primaries, too.
And yet —
And yet I’ve done just that. I’d rather a socialist vote for cap and trade and DISCLOSE than a Republican who will give such legislation the stamp of bi-partisanship. It is clarifying.
Me, I don’t see how you can argue that electing a Republican you can’t count on to vote conservatively makes any sense — particularly when, as a primary voter, you are tasked with voting for the candidate you feel will best serve your interests.
To me it is rather unsurprising that the GOP primary voters in Delaware chose the conservative candidate.
Most of the time? Please.
Republicans like Castle are bad for the party because they represent “the same as the Democrats, only slower.” They drag down the party. People should have a clear choice ideologies, not Democrat and Democrat Lite. We have tried the “pragmatic” way for too long, and look where it got us. We can choose the Democrat statist how puts us on the fast train to hell, or the Republican statist who slows that train down a bit. Either way, we’ll end up in hell.
If someone cannot be elected and be a good classical liberal, then the Democrats should have the win. The lack of clear choices got us here in the first place.
That’s because I hadn’t yet replied to you, having not as yet read your comment.
I’ve since read it and replied.
You believe it makes no sense for a state’s primary voters to choose the candidate they think best represents them — that instead, they should vote for someone they don’t particularly like, but whom would at least represent them on some issues, in theory. That is, you believe they should listen to the very planners who orchestrated the strategy that gave us a “progressive” mandate.
The state’s primary voters thought otherwise.
The people in Delaware had a clear choice, and they made it.
Ok, WHOA NELLIE! As Dear Leader would say, let me be clear about this: Do you think I like assholes like Mike Castle fucking things up? No. I’m making a very specific point. In a situation like the one in Delaware–and only in a situation like that–it MAKES NO SENSE to nominate a candidate who will give the general election to a Democrat. I don’t care who the fuck we’re talking about, a Republican is BY DEFINITION better than a Democrat. That is all.
No.
Republicans should stand for something, just like Democrats should stand for something. The voters should have a clear choice of what they are getting, more government or less government.
Presumably, those that nominated her wanted her to win, and were planning on voting for her in the general election. They can’t worry about what Democrats and independents are going to do (and in fact, independents were about evenly split). We’ll never know if O’Donnell could have won or not had not the fucking GOP and “pragmatic conservatives” led the charge against her. Or if the party had provided her (and Angle) with a ground game in their respective states.
I’d vote for a JFK Dem over Trent Lott or John McCain in a fucking heartbeat.
The most important thing in the whole world to happen in 2010 was a handful of primary challenges what put failshit Team R on notice, and Christine did a lot of the heavy lifting. So thanks and a fond bye bye to you Christine. Mr. Crist also did a lot of the heavy lifting. He did a lot to inspire a passionate belief in primary challenges. Thank you Mr. Crist and a not so fond goodbye to you you smell like rancid Jergens lotion.
Isn’t it funny how people outside the individual nominating procesess keep saying that these moderate and liberal Republicans are electable, and yet they keep getting bumped off in the primaries?
In the case of O’Donnell, the Republican voters decided that they’d rather take a chance with her baggage than with his voting record. And given that record, I think it presumes to much to think that Castle would have voted with us most of the time.
Ok, but come on, Jeff. Don’t argue by exception. You know what I meant. If for no other reason than sheer numbers, it’s better to have a Republican in there. Do you think it’s better to have Coons in the Senate than Castle?
I’d vote for a JFK Dem over Trent Lott or John McCain in a fucking heartbeat.
Hell, had I been in Arizona, I’d have tactically voted for the Democrat, just to stop McCain from going the full Arlen on us.
Yes, Ernst. But Democrats will vote for them! Doesn’t that make you feel good?
I mean, it worked with Fiorina. And McCain in ’08.
Oh, wait —
Yes. When Coons votes for the progressive agenda, it’s to be expected. He and the Dems will have to own it.
And Ernst, if you’re referring to the conventional wisdom that Fiorina and Whitman are examples of traditional Republicans being failures, I continue to be baffled by that. I live in CA, ok? Are you suggesting they didn’t win because they were insufficiently conservative?
a Castle victory would’ve emboldened other Team R coward whores such as the Mark Kirk and the John Cornyn and the Princess Lindsey…
These ones shouldn’t have any sense of security. It’s important that these ones not have a sense of security. More important than a pickup in Delaware.
Just so we’re clear I am an ideological purist. I believe in the Constitution, and I’d love to have a hundred Marco Rubios in the Senate. I’m simply saying that in some cases, discretion is the better part of valor.
the Dem in Arizona definitely fell under the heading of “likable enough” I thought
If moderate Republicans can’t win in California, what would it hurt trying to run an actual classical liberal? The Tea Party crossed traditional political party lines. It appealed to Reagan Dems and independents as well as (non-establishment) Republicans and libertarians.
I guess we’ll never know how an actual constitutionalist would have fared in California. But we know what Brown and Boxer are all about, that’s for sure.
Sometimes it makes sense tactically to fall back in order to achieve victory later.
Jeff, I think we do know. California is hopeless.
I hope you guys understand that I’m talking about tactics, not ideology.
CraigC,
I understand where you’re coming from because I used to be there myself. I’ll share a shameful secret: In 2004’s CA recall election, I was all for Tom McClintock until it came time to vote. Then I let myself be persuaded by the pragmatic, electability argument and cast my ballot for Schwarzenegger because getting Davis out and keeping Bustamante out, in short, winning, was more important than electing a conservative. I let myself be persuaded that any Republican was going to be more conservative than any Democrat. How’d that work out?
I’m done with winning for the sake of winning, because we don’t win anything.
If moderate Republicans can’t win in California, what would it hurt trying to run an actual classical liberal?
Jeff, I love you man, but that’s kind of silly. If a moderate can’t win in CA, how the hell can a conservative win? If your point is that perhaps it would move the ball down the field, well, maybe.
Hell, Ernst, I voted for Mr. Schriber, too.
O’Donnell showed the establishment in both parties that a grass roots political movement can indeed threaten them. She is merely the first. Perhaps her campaign emboldens a better Tea Party candidate next time around — one who shares O’Donnell’s message but who can’t be successfully sabotaged by an establishment GOP-Bill Maher tag-team tandem.
As happy points out, O’Donnell’s campaign was more important than a seventh Senate seat. O’Donnell herself may have been doomed to failure in Delaware, but the grass-roots support she enjoyed perhaps galvanized people in other states, and was in part responsible for the close to 700 state assembly pickups, 10 governorships, 63 House seats, and GOP control in states that haven’t gone that way since before Reconstruction.
And all that might have been lost had we chosen “discretion” and “comity”.
Schriver
We’re talking about tactics as well. We already tried it the way you are advocating for a long time. I think it has been a proven failure.
No one even had a chance to vote for a classical liberal in CA. We cannot know how that would have turned out.
Nighty-night.
Ok, I take your overall point, Jeff, but I’m not sure O’Donnell had anything to do with the landslide.
And now I must sleep so that I can pretend to work tomorrow. Er, I mean today.
That’s a silly question. Give people a clear choice between ideologies and find out.
Instead, you keep giving them cheap knockoffs of Democrats and labeling them Republicans.
…if you’re referring to the conventional wisdom that Fiorina and Whitman are examples of traditional Republicans being failures, I continue to be baffled by that.
Actually that was my snarky way of saying, how the hell was Castle supposed to win the general if he couldn’t even win the primary. Same goes for Crist.
Fiorina is an example of a Republican with appeal to “swing-voters” who fails to actually swing them. That might be because there’s not enough difference between the D and the R to persuade the swingers to actually swing. That seems to happen a lot.
My son has a meet in 5 hours.
Fuck. I need to sleep.
a Castle victory would’ve emboldened … Mark Kirk and the John Cornyn and the Princess Lindsey…
These ones shouldn’t have any sense of security. It’s important that these ones not have a sense of security. More important than a pickup in Delaware.
Damn. That made sense. Just. Damn.
Sometimes it makes sense tactically to fall back in order to achieve victory later.
And sometimes it makes sense to advance long enough to sieze a temporary objective so that you can stop falling back and maybe regroup to resume the advance.
“I guess we’ll never know how an actual constitutionalist would have fared in California.”
– You may not know, but I do, I live here.
– This state is so deeply populated by the statists and the illegals, and the general government teat suckers it will take an almost total collapse before a damn thing will ever change.
– Brown is the author of government unions, the very source of the lions share of fiscal fail and he gets re-elected.
– You’d have to be living under a rock not to see how unchanging this place will remain until there’s just no money left.
A final thought for the night (more like early morning): If Goldwater hadn’t lost in ’64, Reagan wouldn’t have won in ’80.
I know this is cold comfort, but at least when CA’s bloated gov’t explodes the state like that teeny-tiny wafer thin after dinner mint blew up the Python guy in the fat suit in The Meaning of Life, the Democrats are going to wholly own that. And then, while you’re trying to clean up the mess, you can be like the maid (played by Palin –Michael, not Sarah, ‘feets) turning to Cleese’s waiter and say, “you can thank God you’re not a liberal!”
Also, CraigC, you might want to consider that if the “moderate Republicans” who decided to sore loser and tear into O’Donnell had done what several Tea Party candidates did and accept the primary, then work for her election instead of giving Coons and the Copperheads cover, she just might have won. Maybe they should have “compromised for the good of the party.”
WTF am I saying. RINO compromise, like Copperhead bi-partisanship, only applies if it works in their favor. Hypocrites.
Shhhh, SDN. You don’t want to CHALLENGE PROFESSOR REYNOLDS!
One of the funniest things about his post was his pretending people like me of all people are afraid to challenge big traffic sites on the right.
I’ve burned more bridges than the effects people from Bridge on the River Kwai. It is what it is.
25 minutes before I have to leave for my son’s meet. Ended up getting 2 hours sleep. I’m doomed.
2 hours sleep bests the 0 hours of sleep I got tonight/this morning. Grading history exams is teh suck.
As for pragmatism/supporting RINO Copperheads: screw that. I look forward to giving that bastard Cornyn some payback come the 2014 primary. The NRSC is a disgrace and an embarrassment. During this election cycle they spent an inordinate amount of time fighting and demonizing fellow Republicans, wasting money on unwinnable races, and now not giving a damn about stopping vote fraud. And I’m the one who should compromise? Bite me.
Cornyn bet on Crist, Specter, Hutchinson, Grayson (the other one)Castle, Murkowski, basically the Walking Dead, had Castle actually pretended to acknowledge he was in a primary, he might have won,
but they sent Gainey and the WS to demolish her forthwright, “It’s Wilmington, Jake” they voted for Biden 6 times, does that show any evidence of discernment
The O’Donnell thing (among others) to me means that the agencies of the Republican Party whose job it is to help ensure that a Republican nominee win the election, don’t consider that their job after all. They have adopted the view that they know better than the “owners” of the Republican Party.
The way I see it, since Delaware has a system of primary elections to nominate candidates for the general election, the GOP is obligated to abide by the results thereof, regardless of their own opinions. One should expect that an attorney like Frey would understand that.
If the GOP establishment is going to trust a rabble of primary-election voters with the task of choosing the Republican nominee for U.S. Senator from Delaware, they ought to have the class and dignity to support that choice.
When the word “Party” is used what exactly is the thing that is being described? What does it exist to do, to be?
Is its purpose to provide positions of power and perks for the comfort of those who claim the mantle of “Party” leaders? If that is so, then winning, by hook or by crook, is truly the only thing that can possibly matter. Positions, policies, ideals must be molded to whatever it takes to win this one time. To be remolded again and again for each next time after time after time.
Or is the “Party” simply a vehicle to advance certain ideals, certain ideas of how we think it is best to organize a society.
Yes, to advance the ideals does work better by being elected to positions of power. But the choice is which comes first? Is power to be the servant of principle or are principles to be the servants of power?
The main thing that was exposed in the Castle/Crist/Murkowski affairs is which side is which in that respect. That clarity is worth a Senate seat or two or three. This is the tactical fallback from which can launched a victory over the two power centers that will be in play in 2012.
Two words, and the same two words I’ve repeatedly uttered:
Alvin Greene.
Now there’s a hopeless candidate. BUT —
Once the primary was done, did Democrats get together to slap him down? Were there Democrats hitting the Sunday morning talkfests to babble about what a terribly flawed candidate he was? Did Democrats get in a war with their own factions about how the H*ll somebody like that could get nominated? Were Democrats getting together to chorus that the Party should have nominated somebody closer to the real demographics of the State, so Independents and Republicans might see a more attractive candidate?
Not only no, but H!ll no!. What they did was keep their mouths shut once the primary was over. They didn’t support their bad candidate — but they didn’t assemble in columns of droves to beat him over the head with sticks and lambaste the faction of their own Party that nominated him, either, because they knew, as clearly many Republicans do not, that that kind of teardown of a candidate of their own Party, however flawed, slops over to affect the other candidates — and you know what? Lightning has struck in a few places from time to time.
This is one of the dangers inherent in the primary process, and why smart politicians want primaries as early as possible. A primary is an election like any other, and is going to bring out bad features of all the candidates in it. Those bad features then become issues in the main election for the other Party, and smart pols want at least time for the mud to dry before tackling the hazards of the general. If people in their own party keep digging for more mud and poo to fling, it makes the general election almost hopeless.
The time for “opposition research” and resulting poo-barrages is before the primary. After that, either support the Party candidate or zip your f*ing lip, because opposition within the Party not only makes the other Party’s efforts easier, it has the psychological cross-effect of discrediting the Party’s other candidates, even in faraway places. That’s the rule Democrats followed in the case of Alvin Greene because it’s the rule that works.
Doesn’t anybody here know how to play this game?
Regards,
Ric
Going all historical, the position being espoused by Mr. Frey is another variation of “He’s a good man“.
For laughs read the first comment in the second link and compare to what has been said here from even before the 2008 election and to this from Nov. 4th 2008 which was also linked by professor Reynolds which is not quite in line with the desired narrative.
It was far more important that Mike Castle lose than Christine O’Donnell win. Put squishes like Castle into the Senate and you’ll spend the next six years watering down desperately-needed legislation to overturn shitty Obama initiatives, take an axe to Leviathan and gut idiotic, business-strangling regulation. Creeps like Castle, Crist, Cornyn and Murkowski are a disease, not a cure.
The next time, if they’ve learned a thing, the NRSC will find a better candidate to counter the like of O’Donnell and Angle, someone who is truly a conservative/libertarian and will do what needs to be done in DC, not an otherwise-unemployable drone with an ass the shape of his/her chair. If there’s shitty legislation coming out of DC, I want left-liberal fingerprints on it, not conservative.
Oh, and in case it hadn’t been noticed, all those “responsible,” “pragmatic” and “sober” Senators propped up by the Incumbent Party have stripped us of a vast scope of liberty and driven the nation to the verge of economic collapse. It may be time for some irresponsible replacements.
De Beste, was more to the point, on a great number of areas, the NRSC doesn’t learn, but it is like
the Terminator
Coons was just an opponent. Castle was the enemy.
I’m taking a chance and skipping comments, so my apologies if this has already been pointed out — but Christie is already elected to office. He is governing from a small-government perspective; ie walking the talk. As long as he’s doing that, occassional disagreements with his comments shouldn’t move into litmus test time.
The O’Donnell affair is completely different. The time to criticize O’D and support Castle should have lasted only as long the primary. Once DE Republicans had made their choice, either support O’Donnell or shut-the-fuck-up. The lamentations, the rending of garments and the gnashing of teeth over the horror of the imperfect O’Donnell was just so much gold to the left-wing Noise Machine. What, there aren’t enough Democrats to criticize that the country-club Republicans had to savage another Republican because she wasn’t one of the incrowd?
And you know, what it comes down to, what really motivates the invective leveled at the non-establishment types — like Palin — is pure class hatred. The upper-class loves them the lower class (allows them to engage in a little noblesse oblige without any worries that the recepients will ever be competition) but it absolutely loathes the middle-class, especially because so many members of the middle class refuse to know their place and won’t genuflect in the presence of their upper-class betters.
[…] O’Donnell lost, and the fur is flying. Her Republican detractors point with pride to the loss, bragging that they […]
Codevilla’s class distinctions will serve you better, I think, Darleen, but evenso, you’ve felt the pulse there.
He should have explained that to Mike Castle. if Delaware’s general electorate was so enamored of Mike Castle, his endorsement of O’Donnell would have gone a long way toward sending her to DC. Having lost the primary to her, you would think that O’Donnell would then be the best senator Castle could get. Apparently, he preferred Senator Coons.
Glenn felt like protecting Professor Bainbridge (and Christie). While I like Reynolds and Althouse, they are not conservative leaders. Reynolds is a self described libertarian who promotes gun rights (a good thing). Althouse is a left leaning law professor who occasionally has moments of clarity about conservative issues. Bainbridge is a corporate law professor who seems to have his own baggage about the GOP and its base.
Still, Bainbridge is not the enemy, he is just an arrogant west coast snob who doesn’t bother to get what Levin, Riehl, or for that matter Sarah Palin are saying. But for all that confusion, Bainbridge would probably be thrilled with Mitch Daniels as the 2012 nominee (which is fine).
Okay, Levin, Riehl, and Jeff tend to tell it like it is. But a bit of snark is needed to slap the shit out of some of these pundits on the right.
Because here is the real issue. If Obama gets re-elected in 2012, he wins. Obamacare goes into effect and fucks us for ever.
“Alvin Greene.
Now there’s a hopeless candidate. BUT –
Once the primary was done, did Democrats get together to slap him down? Were there Democrats hitting the Sunday morning talkfests to babble about what a terribly flawed candidate he was? Did Democrats get in a war with their own factions about how the H*ll somebody like that could get nominated? Were Democrats getting together to chorus that the Party should have nominated somebody closer to the real demographics of the State, so Independents and Republicans might see a more attractive candidate?
Not only no, but H!ll no!.”
You’re rewriting history, Ric. Badly.
Talking Points Memo: The South Carolina Democratic Party has called on Alvin Greene, who won the state’s Democratic Senate primary last night, to withdraw from the race.
MSNBC: The Democratic Party’s 92-member executive committee plans a hearing Thursday on former state lawmaker Vic Rawl’s protest and could order the primary results overturned. State party leaders can’t remember that ever happening before. Rawl could also appeal to the state Supreme Court.
Fox News: S.C. Democratic Party Considers Overturning Alvin Greene Election Results
Politico: Alvin Greene, South Carolina’s little-known Democratic Senate nominee, is swearing that he will not withdraw from the race despite pleas from his party’s leadership.
The Hill: House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) has called Greene a “plant” and called for an investigation into his win.
Talking Points Memo: Dottie Sue Maggart-Feldmen, a former campaign aide to surprise South Carolina Democratic Senate nominee Alvin Greene, has accused the beleaguered Dem of calling a local man a “fat white f*ggot.”
The Moderate Voice: Until I am convinced someone else did not pay his $10,400 filing fee, I will stick with logic and believe some slimy Republican political operative did. This is one of the most disgraceful dirty tricks I have ever seen as a political observer for 60 years. Think of it in terms of a ruthless manipulation of what white southerners deem a “slow” black man.
Huffington Post: Democrats, political pundits, and much of the media have snooped, pried, pecked and nosed around trying to get the goods on Alvin Greene, and then boot him from the South Carolina US senatorial general election ballot.
etc.
Glenn felt like protecting a fellow law professor Bainbridge from being picked on, without bothering to find out what it was about. There was a bit of a back handed slap to Bainbridge too (that Patterico, the poor student, as usual failed to grasp).
Patterico attacked O’Donnell, then after criticism defended her for a day or two (while Ace, Allah and other said see we are defending her), then they went back to attacking her again. Pathetic, but what can you do. Maybe they want to get on Maher’s show one day. I hear he has some great dope in the green room.
sdferr
Ah!. Yes “Ruling class” is a better label than “upperclass”. My term could be interpreted to mean “wealthy” but not all Ruling class members are vastly wealthy (college profs), nor are all wealthy people considered part of the Ruling class. It really is a political divide.
For laughs read the first comment in the second link…
Sweet.
That reminds me.
Hey Ish,
Got any smear Alvin Greene stories besides the “I think Republicans did this” dated right after the primary? You know, MONTHS long stories of things he did as a high school student or college student that lasted right up and through the election?
sheesh
WordPress hates me.
ThomasD, WordPress hates everybody. Sneer back and press on.
Regards,
Ric
So, Wolcott lives in South Carolina.
Who knew?
With that encouragement,
To reinforce Ric’s earlier point, consider that Greene garnered almost 360,000 votes – roughly 27% of all votes cast. That speaks volumes about how the Democrats handled his primary victory. It says ‘win our primary and, even if you are the functional equivalent of a doorknob, we can guarantee you at least one quarter of the vote; the rest is up to you.’
That is a point of pride among the true ‘Team D’ type people in South Carolina. You would think the Team R people, the very people who say “back the Republican, no matter what” would recognize this and act accordingly, but no, they are dead set on ignoring the fact that they were the ones who failed to meet their own obligations, they were the ones who failed to abide by their own prescriptions, they were the ones who failed to back their party nominee.
The Delaware debacle (because the problem is way bigger than just Christine O’Donnell) says the Republican party, nationally and within the state, is an incohesive bunch of self serving prigs. It says ‘even if you play be the rules we cant guarantee you anything because, if faced with an unpalatable primary outcome, we much prefer surrender over a fighting defeat, or possibly even a victory.’
Further consider that O’Donnell’s primary win wasn’t so much the triumph of a better candidate as it was the very specific rejection of Castle as a particular type candidate. Ignoring that reality is not, in any way pragmatic. It is a failure to see the forest for the trees. And it is going to alienate the very people who chose O’Donnell over Castle – their own primary voters, aka ‘the base’.
The ‘pragmatists’ keep this up and they’ll learn the hard way that what they are doing is fundamentally un-pragmatic,/i> because that doesn’t hold the base isn’t going to win much of anything in the long run, other than a third party split.
It appears if I broke my comment down into single sentences I could get it through.
It’s that damn obelisk again, I think I’ll go beat on something with a femur.
http://theothermccain.com/2010/11/13/the-demagogic-bloggers-on-the-right/
Stacy is on a roll.
Ishmael, how much of that small-time Democrat infighting made headlines in the NYT and other MSM outlets? Most of your links are utter crap sites.
I think I’ll join you Thomas.
Maybe Jeff will be able to shove his mighty …err… FIST down the comment monster’s throat and force it to regurgitate the comments it swallowed.
But in the mean time, the divide, as Darleen mentioned, is political. But it’s also a class divide. One that’s based more on how one earn’s one’s living. Increasingly, those who “think” for a living instead of “work” for a living have come to believe that because they’re better at “thinking” than the rest of society, they’re entitled to think for all of us.
Thomas Sowell has made something of a second or third carerer writing about this phenomenon. In addition to Codevilla, David Lebedoff and Christopher Lasch have written important (or at least interesting) works.
Jeff G,
Have you e-mailed this to instaGlenn?
O’Donnell fits the bill. She is about the same intellectual level of many tea party leaders.
Mice with fully functioning hum brains, evolution is a myth.
What does it say about those that would support such candidates?
Ishmael is right. Clyburn banging on Greene was quite prominent and
The analogy holds, but at the same time it’s lacking because the circumstances were so different. There was no primary for most intents and purposes, and Alvin joined our conversation when he captured the nomination despite virtually no one having any idea at all who he was. The Dems never had any dream of beating DeMint. But when Alvin wound up on their ticket, they were not kind to him and did their best to rid themselves of him. Eventually, someone wised up and figured out that banging on Alvin was not only bad PR, but was pointless in a race they weren’t going to win.
We can and should take a lesson from it, namely that there’s a time to shut up and get back to work. But the situations really don’t compare, and the idea that the Dems all got on board the Alvin Greene Express is incorrect.
I see nothing wrong with Ishmael’s Google Fu.
“stand up for chuck” joey “hairplugs” biden
That they don’t like progressives.
Stacy is on a roll.
Thanks for the link Joe. That was well worth reading.
I like ball-busters. They’re very OUTLAW!
What does it say about those that would support such candidates?
Hmmmm, what does it say?
Now Frey’s claiming another death threat by Jeff against a commenter, but no link.
I’d like to clarify. My question at #84 was based in the airtight logic Jeff displayed in his concise argument in this post. Maybe Glenn has never considered it that way.
Which is why I wondered if he e-mailed it to him.
Mice with fully functioning hum brains, evolution is a myth.
Being an infant, AJB, used to be only a transitional stage.
I went to go look for it, but did not see that accussation. Where did he raise it? Just the normal Pat and daleyrocks mix of slurs and ad hominem attacks.
Darleen,
The links in my previous comment adequately refuted Ric’s rewriting of history regarding the Democrats’ treatment of Alvin Greene.
If you willfully ignore all the instances of Democrats accusing Greene of being a Republican plant, ridiculing his mental deficiencies, trying to get him thrown off the ballot, hyping his felony charge, publicly declaring they wouldn’t vote for him, repeatedly asking him to withdraw, publicizing a charge that he called someone a “fat white faggot”, and (my favorite) the state Democratic Party Chairwoman proclaiming in mid-October that “Nobody believes that Alvin Greene is going to be elected to the United States Senate. From the day after the primary, nobody has thought that Alvin Greene had the ability to be elected. [O]n November 3 his 15 minutes of fame will be over.” *, then yes, you might be able to argue that Ric’s comment was accurate.
But willful ignorance is not my style.
serr8d,
I assume by “crap sites” you mean sites you don’t like, because the ones I cited are high-traffic and respectable.
Still, per your request, here is a New York Times piece on Alvin Greene. As a bonus, it was published October 30, 2010 – which I think means it also meets the “not right after the primary”/”right up and through the election” criteria.
Anyhow, it’s a gorgeous Saturday and since Bing, Google, and Yahoo were still functional and free to use when I checked them just a few moments ago, I’m going to bow out of the comment thread at this point and let those of you still unfamiliar with the treatment and coverage of Alvin Greene over the last five months educate yourselves.
Oh, he did it at TOM:
Patterico:
You better watch out Jeff, Pat might get a restraining order against you (if you ever happen to be in California). Funny that Pat did not go on PW to raise his protest. I am also not sure where Patterico lifted that “quote” because it is not in this thread and even if it is true there is no context for it.
Of course it is decontextualized, since otherwise it would be perfectly intelligible to any ordinary reader. And bonus, by putting it the way he does Frey gets to keep up his own demagogic manner, staying demagogically true to himself, so to speak.
#94 – see here
http://theothermccain.com/2010/11/13/the-demagogic-bloggers-on-the-right/#more-20140
You folks are going to have to help me out here. Is “Ishmael” a Democrat who fancies himself somehow insulted, or a Rovican trying to handwave an excuse for the inexcusable?
Regards,
Ric
hamfistedly attempts to use Glenn Reynolds as his intellectual body armor (after having previously tried on Michele Malkin for size)
That’s not a good sign, Pat, seeking vindication by hiding behind the skirts of those whom you perceive to be Authorities.
My narcissist father did it all the time when he mounted unsustainable arguments.
Craig C has got to be Michael Medved.
You know, team r and all.
– Game on. The opposition doesn’t care to address their shark jumping when playground trash talk is so much more fun (and much less embarrassing).
Frey is essentially cooperating with the most malicious trolls. They provoke and then he references it elsewhere without context for maximum effect. Interesting technique.
And by interesting I mean slimy, dishonest, and dishonorable.
Shakespeare was right.
discretion is the better part of valor
Which, in the original Shakespeare, was uttered by a coward who figured it would be better to hide from his enemies on the battlefield than to fight them.
He was using “discretion” as a euphemism for “saving my own hide.”
Might want to 86 the phrase from your vocab.
Those aren’t the only two options, Ric. Ishmael has a positive track record here. See Pablo’s #86.
You two disagree on the reaction to Alvin Greene. No one is required to be the bad guy for that to occur.
Patterico’s picture is in the dictionary next to the phrase “not worth the powder to blow him to Hell.” Just sayin’
I find it kind of creepy that Frey is obsessed enough with Jeff as to troll all the PW comment threads just waiting to pounce on something he can reinterpret – screw context and intent – then spam other bloggers comment threads with it.
He certainly isn’t like the DDA’s I’ve been privileged to work with — he’s more in the Nifong corner of DDA.
Anybody ever seen Alvin Green and Steven Wright in the same room?
Now you tell me. I just splurged my PayPal account on a new black hat.
Regards,
Ric
The ONLY legitimate argument in favor of “any R is better than any D” is that if your team has the majority, it also appoints the committee chairs, decides which bills make it onto the floor, and has more power to use parliamentary procedure to their advantage.
And to gerrymander, if you think that’s a good thing.
The counter is of course that if the Rs who get the majority are RINOs, then what they DO with that extra power was on display until we chucked the morons out in ought six to knock some sense into them.
Which, see if you can convince me that the overreaching of the Dems since ought six hasn’t stirred up enough wrath among the electorate to achieve actual push-back instead of business as usual.
And the fact remains that the Tea Party candidates like O’Donnell and Angle challenged the Grand Old Boys Club, and instead of backing the R over the D, the defeated regulars petulantly withheld support from the R in a fit of petulance over being challenged by la chusma.
That’s more disgusting that putting the correct label on what the gubmint does, ain’t it?
Heh, you can always use a black hat regardless, Ric. ‘Cause they look cool even on a good guy.
(By the way, Ishmael, Ric also has a long, positive record here. No need to characterize his position as “rewriting history”. I’d personally say he’s looking at the same history and simply interprets it differently.)
She was running for Biden’s old seat. That bastard is barely able to dress himself.
OK, she was no Kennedy — but then, she hadn’t murdered anyone, either. Or covered up any rapes. Or had a life-long alcohol problem. Or mob ties. Or a history of siding with America’s enemies. Or…
If the Senate had come down to a tie, Castle would have switched parties, given enough incentive.
Doubt that? The “better a liberal Republican” idea gave us Arlen Specter, who did just that.
Funny how they have EPWJ, one of the legendary orcs (troll is too kind,) vouching for Patterico. at
McCain’s site. Then again, he has been wrong on a near infinity of subjects.
Most of the folks who say that, however, never seem to find time to actually fight. They just keep falling back.
That’s what we’re reacting to. Besides, a guy known for winning lots of fights once said, “l’audace, l’audace, toujours l’audace”.
Electing “Republicans” who won’t fight for our liberties is just a way to make yourself feel like you’re winning when you’re losing. Maybe you get a slightly fatter cut of the collapsing pie; in the end, you’re still going to have nothing but crumbs and chains.
Patrick Frey IS RD, most likely. That would explain his sympathetic treatment of an otherwise fictional entity.
Would somebody please post a reference describing exactly what past problems Christine O’Donnell’s had that made her unelectable? She was interested in witchcraft as a teen? Heck, I wanted to be the Man from Uncle until I was 16. She had financial troubles? So do most of us not born a Kennedy. What exactly was so horrible about her past that made her unelectable … oh, wait, except for the primary. And, please don’t use Politico as a reference.
It’s not that she dabbled in witchcraft, it’s that she became a devout believer in Christianity, that is the nearly inexcusable thing, It’s not that she took time to earn her degree, after all,
didn’t Rove and Schmidt do the same, they were just much more profitable at it. Or legal issues,
I recall something about that, on the former’s part
Mainly, that she wasn’t Mike “Cap-‘n’-Tax” Castle.
She was unelectable because our betters told she was. Don’t you know enough to listen to your betters CNC?
Fundraiser thread and out of all context of course.
The context was my having noted that I was taking my son to the doctor, and while I was there a troll — who has used 50 names and over 100 IPs — posted as me that my son had bone cancer.
If Frey decided to use that to bash me, well, that just shows you how low the execrable fuck will go, I guess.
Maybe I should have run a reader poll asking for the reaction that would show me in the best possible light. Because that kind of thing is important, you know.
If you find out he lives in Georgia, I might be able to drive past his place and make sure he’s okay.
How I intend the meaning of “okay” may not set well with Mr. Frey.
Patterico started off his guest appearance at TOM today by accusing you of a death threat. The actual link and context only came later when McGhee called him on it. Then Pat suddenly started to say that the troll was an asshole. The interesting thing of all of this is what an asshole Pat is.
Jesus. If someone said something like that about my kid, I would react similarily. Anyone would. Well almost anyone.
But not Patterico. He is reasonable.
Yeah, Frey claimed all of us defending Jeff would feel differently about it if the threat were directed at us. Only trouble is, I can’t imagine a scenario where making up shit about Satchel would be something I’d do.
Apparently Frey can.
I would never make some a despicable comment about any child. Not to my worse enemy. There are some things that are beyond the pale. But McGhee, you may have a point.
Words matter. Grown men know that there are lines one doesn’t cross unless one wants to get a punch in the nose.
Frey apparently does not get that. Draw your own conclusions.
Now Frey is referencing comments here (mine, anyway) over at McCain’s site. I’m not sure what to say to that, except that he must enjoy starting blog fights for some strange reason. I can only assume he gets some kind of joy and satisfaction from them.
Apparently Frey doesn’t have enough drama in his meatspace existence. I might start praying for that to change.
Frey is beyond pitiful.
That he’s fooled so many people into believing he is a Good Man —
Meh. Never mind.
What is it about some people who think the only way to achieve and to put their ideas in the marketplace is to tear down others? I’m not talking about responding to such attacks, but making them in the first place.
People suck.
OT: van der Leun found a good one.
(help someone… no “serious”… I’m in honeydo hell)
Anyway, now that it’s supper time and I have a few minutes to catch up, I’ve been reading the comments over at Stacy’s.
Jeez.
Somebody who’s not me (because disqus hates me almost as much as wordpress hates ThomasD) ought to point out to lawyer P. Frey the words of Prof. Bainbridge. Jeff, like the good professor, and Ronald Reagan before them, has paid for his “microphone.”
I’m serious. Somebody go say that to Pat. It’ll be fun. He loves appeals to authority. Especially the authority of his fellow “good men.”
thor used to say some extremely nasty things to me, things that only a twisted mind would say, things that only a twisted mind with malicious intent would say.
And yet I was never afraid. Had thor been leaving those same verbal droppings on my answering machine, I would be calling the cops and applying for concealed carry, even though linguistically they weren’t threats.
Pat just has one Lofty Moral Perch to stand on–not having posted something that can be linguistically construed as a threat–and imagines that it absolves him of all HIS sins, such as the Google bombs, the racist accusations (all indirect, of course), letting people know that he’s archiving every single word you post on a particular thread so that you’ll know not to mess with him, willful misprision of others’ words to his sole advantage, the attempts to destroy Jeff’s reputation for no other reason than Jeff deserves it, etc.
Whereas we’ve seen Jeff weather a real-life troll who parlayed Internet nastiness into real-life nastiness to his newly widowed mother, and Jeff never laid a finger on her (though if he’d knocked her out cold, hog-tied her, and left her in a cage to cool off, there would have be dancing in the streets).
As we speak, he’s over at RSM’s place, attempting to wind everything around the axles by compelling people to say, “no, what I SAID was…” It’s a full-metal-jacket method of argumentation, which he inevitably “wins” because he’s the only one willing to keep at it and keep at it with the misprision and misrepresentation and minute pickings at semantics and timelines.
Pathetic.
That he’s fooled so many people into believing he is a Good Man –
Even most sociopaths manage THAT much. Dark hearts aren’t hard to conceal when it’s to your advantage to do so.
I’m in honeydo hell
Hell for you, maybe, but not for your wife.
House needs winterizing?
Car needs to be taken in?
New solid-core doors need installing?
She’s lucky to have a live-in handyman. Me, I have to either do it myself, pay someone to do it, or impose on church people (who are either up to their armpits in helping their own extended families or are too old to climb on roofs).
This isn’t a self-pity message; it’s just to remind you that the honey-do thing is of great worth to your family.
And if they don’t realize it, send ’em to me and I’ll give ’em a clue.
Alas Di, Frau Schreiber cannot be described as lucky, since I cannot be considered handy. You see, I refuse to do anything with my left hand, purely as a matter of PRINCIPLE! It’s hell on both of us.
(But I do thank you for your kind words)
since I cannot be considered handy
“If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.“
Please tell me that you qualify (or did) for the other half of the equation. Or at least that you give good foot rubs.
The power of the Schreiber neck and shoulder rub is a power that should only be used for good.
Return of the Inquisitor.*
Ishmael
Not a slam, but the dates are important… because I got the impression that after a point the Dems stood down
– Dems never stand down. They just fall back and regroup while looking for some “pragmatic” RINO among the enemy they can buy off.
– Whenever a particular troll disappears from PW suddenly, I like to think he/she made the mistake of trying to move their asocial behavior to real life with less than happy results.
They stood down once it occurred to them that trying to take Alvin Greene out was both utterly futile and too costly to do for no possible gain. But first they went after him with all barrels blazing because he wasn’t supposed to be there. They were worse to him than the GOP was to O’Donnell, but there wasn’t much notice of it because it wasn’t ever a race to pay attention to.
Something that’s been missed in all of this is exact nature of Glenn’s original post. Given his incredible support for the tea parties and his constant corrective criticism of the GOP, I think it’d be worthwhile to consider some potential nuance. Who keeps bringing up how the establishment losers are playing the spoiler while the tea party types have been team players? Professor Reynolds, that’s who.
Note how he starts by saying how Bartlett isn’t owed an apology because he’s been an ass. Then, thinking of his comments about who has truly been the spoilers, reread the line about taking what you can get and moving on.
I think he’s offering about a nickel’s worth of support for the Bainbridge’s and Frey’s of the world (about as far as they’d support Christie for New Jersey) and a large bucket full of “follow your own damn advice”.
It’s subtle but I’d be willing to bet I’m right about this given all of his past commentary. YMMV.
– Or how about just not giving a fuck what the glee club GOP suppporters think, since the only real change is coming from the T party, and all the insider ass kissing doesn’t change that.
– They simplify the task of dethroning them by calling attention to themselves, and makes it that much easier to nail them next time.
Tommy the Cat, thanks for the inspiration.
Saturday Night Live with Pat and Jeff.
You know bh, I can see a glimmer perhaps of what you’re saying, but I haven’t taken notice of anyone really criticizing Christie as not being conservative enough.
Well, except one of our own commentariat who can’t seem to mention Christie’s name without Castle’s being in the same sentance; implication being that Christie’s a RINO? Sound like it to me, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Do you think you could do a brother a solid and name a few names so’s I might get it?
I suppose I could name some names, Bob, but, as you allude to, I don’t know that we can find a villain here.
I know that you, Pablo, Abe and myself are pretty jazzed about Christie’s performance as a budget cutter and all around fighter. Others, whether they’re not feeling the need to comment or simply lurking, might agree. I know that many, including myself, are less happy about other aspects. Again, others, whether they’re not feeling the need to comment or simply lurking, might agree.
I certainly know that no one here has been given a hard time much less the bum’s rush for expressing either opinion.
There are two points that I’d like to elaborate on here. 1) Christie isn’t just his endorsement of Castle to me, he’s also the man who twice came to Wisco to effectively promote another hardcore fiscal conservative for governor. 2) It’s remarkable how I remain outside the mainstream of opinion here on a few matters (pot, gays, God, Christie, etc) and I’ve yet to have someone give me a hard time. It seems that if we were indulging in a purge, someone might have at least called me a couple names by now.*
*Yeah, newrouter doesn’t count. And, all in all, he’s not all that bad half the time anyway.
Some of those commas are in the right place. Pretty sure of it.
Christie definitely has some flaws, he is probably not serious a contender for the big job in 2012, but taking on the teachers union in New Jersey is pretty cool. New Jersey has property taxes that exceed most mortgage payments elsewhere in the country (and most of that money goes to, with the exception of a few affluent towns, expensive but generally mediocre to failing public schools). What surprises me it took this long for New Jerseyians to figure this out.
As to that circular firing squad metaphor intoduced by Mantaconis and embraced by Bainbridge and Frey: these guys don’t know the difference between a firing squad and an ambush. The Cornyn led NRSC? Circular firing squad. Michael Steele’s RNC blowing the 72 hr GOTV? circular firing squad. Tea Partiers, movement conservatives and classical liberals/libertarians taking out establishment backed apparatchicks? That’s an ambush. If it seems to Mantaconis et. al. that they’re taking fire from all directions, then I guess they must be on the wrong side.
Yours is a clever comment, Ernst.
Bob, doesn’t Bainbridge provide you with a name (if indirectly) through his link to the Mataconis piece (which I haven’t read beyond the bit quoted by Bainbridge himself), that is, Dan Riehl?
If the question is “Is Chris Christie conservative enough to lead a classical liberal’s resurgence in the Republican party?” then, I reckon my answer — based on what I know of him today — would be no I wouldn’t want him as the Republican Party’s leader (the de facto position of a Presidential candidate). If the question, on the other hand, is “Is Chris Christie conservative enough to lead NJ out of the fiscal mess it has gotten itself into?”, then based on the evidence to date I reckon I’d say oh hells yes.
I’m like a blind squirrel that way, bh.
Well said. I suspect even Professor Reynolds would agree.
Ernst Schreiber, yes also well said @ 154.
I had a really great reply written, but it was eaten for some reason…
It’s verrry frustrating. I can never tell, nor even stand, to save each comment prior to posting it just in case…And although it could have been a shortcoming at my end, well, who knows. When I hit “back” it didn’t reappear in the box.
I appreciate all your responses, as they’ve shed light on what I was asking. And FWIW I’m pretty sure Christie’s not running in 2012 anyway.
Hercules had an easier job in the Augean stables than Christie has in my old neck of the woods.
By Frey’s standards of interpretation, Glen Reynolds just endorsed Sarah Palin for President. I wonder what Frey’s gonna say about that. I’m going to go out on limb here and guess that he won’t have anything to say. He’s too much of a traffic whore to get into a blog feud with the Instapundit. (And if he does, then I get to say that that just shows how hypocritical and self-serving he was when he appealed to Reynolds’s authority in the first place!)
n.b. See what I did there, PF?
Usually I strike at random, but the more work you put into comment, the more likely I am to gobble it up. I love the meaty ones!
And in the not being able to buy a clue category;http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/magazine/14FOB-idealab-t.html?_r=1&partner=rss
Death threat! Death threat!
Oh noes! The circular firing squad is gearing up to take aim again! Somebody, stop the madness!
Bingo. This is what Frey has been arguing all along.
Oh, wait —
From Frey:
Ever wonder about that?
Your emails were forwarded. As you intended when you shopped them around. You just didn’t realize where they would go and how people might react. Now a few folks feel a bit guilty.
Notice how some of your strongest twitter and email supporters won’t come forth. We do. Lots of interesting commentary involved. Feel like scorching some earth?
When you act like this, Pat, I certainly do.
Feel free to screen cap this.
Frey is out of his fucking mind. The sooner we all accept this, the sooner we’ll find a way forward.
Hi, Patrick!
I’ve yet to have someone give me a hard time. It seems that if we were indulging in a purge, someone might have at least called me a couple names by now.
Dammit, bh, do you not remember that tender moment months and months ago when we tried to start a gratuitous flame war and it fizzled out almost before it started?
Oh yes, you men forget all that’s truly important, whereas we wimmins don’t forget a single effing thing.
You’ll learn, you endothermic biped.
bh, if I do say so myself, I think I just enhanced your screencap. Cheers!
Wait, are you saying I’m overly endothermic, di? Like I’m fat?
Made up Castilian adjective, made up Castilian noun!
Oh, yeah? I’ve got ants with more legs than you!
During the Ground Zero Mosque flap, Christie came down in favor of it — or at least indifference towards its existence — and incurred some wrath.
He’s not what you’d call a devoted so-con, but given what he’s doing in Jersey, who cares?
I’ve got ants with more legs than you!
I should hope so, but the arachnids in the filthy corners of my house beat your ants every day of the week and thrice on Tuesdays.
Heh, I’ll kill you, Pablo!
Not before I kill YOU, bh!
Oh noes! I have fallen from the loftiest of the Lofty Moral Perches, and now I cannot accuse Pat of being a total douche!
I’ll kill the both of you! Quote me!
Holy shit. I bet he typed that one handed.
Don’t worry about “now I cannot accuse Pat of being a total douche!” dicentra, he’s managed to do that all on his own.
Patterico keeps score.
How many own goals has he run up?
He was going for a hat trick, but his hand got tired.
In response to the comment Joe quoted, I just threatened to kill Pat with my bare hands if we ever meet in person, making TWO bloggers who have issued a death threat.
Anyone else here named Spartacus?
Ehhh, not really. He was a poor slave. I make good money and could become litigious if someone fucked with me enough.
So, I’m sorta like Spartacus’ friend.
But, I’d be happy to kill you, di, for presuming I could be Spartacus.
How fucking nuts is it for Frey to think he’s doing himself well by all this shit he pours out? I mean, really?
Don’t have a blog and can’t comment b/c of Disqus. I suggest anybody who wants to go Spartacus with Di, simply reply to PF, “Shakespeare was right.”
bugfuck nuts, sdferr, bugfuck nuts
I’d be more likely to kill the cat serenader and frame Frey for it so he’d do time in a federal pound you in the ass prison.
And now I suddenly have the urge to watch Office Space. Too bad They were expendable is already in the machine and you just don’t yank The Duke and Donna Reed for Ron Livingston and whatever that Lumberg guy’s real name is.
He always has the option of arguing on the merits. He doesn’t though.
What happened here? Stacy laid out an interesting case and he basically inked the water with “Jeff is a dangerous man”.
Gary Cole, the world just seems full of people demanding TPS reports, for no good reason, doesn’t it.
Much as I like They Were Expendable I have to say that I like In Harm’s Way more.
The Duke’s best movie is The Searchers.
Dare to disagree with me and I’ll kill ya. EACH and EVERY mother’s son’a ya.
C’mon Dog >>cue Leonard Bernstein music<<
?
Well Joe, either it’s ironic, and Jeff’s kool-aid swilling groupies here have no standing with The Departed. Or he’s irritated at all the new kids in the sandbox and wishes they would just go away.
It could also be that The Departed is noting that Jeff has commenters who like him enough to not only frequent his sight, but defend him on other sights as well.
Take your pick. Or better yet, just ask, if you’d really like to know.
sight=site
night nite
Frey dropped bh’s “real” name into that thread at McCain’s place, even though bh hasn’t used it for years online (presumably because he wants to keep internet stuff away from his real life; Christ, how I wish now that I had done so).
Fortunately, bh was always careful only to use a middle name, even back at the beginning of things. So Frey’s none-too-subtle attempt to cow bh by hamfistedly inserting his “real name” into that thread failed.
Still, that he tried it? That’s Patrick Frey.
My guess is he’s drunk again.
Great, Jeff. Now I need a new first name.
I’m thinking Sebastian.
(What’s exceedingly funny about this is that Jeff is probably the only guy online who remembers the first Jer usage. Suck it, IB.)
Still, that he tried it? That’s Patrick Frey.
My guess is he’s drunk again.
Wasted is more like it.
Frey definitely isn’t getting enough meatspace drama. If I have any clout with the universe, it’s gonna go up to 11 starting now.
Fucker.
So when did “BannableLecturer” get banned?
Does anyone else hate that DISCUS comment thinger RSM employs? It’s a maze and a rathole if it ever gets to and past 20 comments. Whoever construed the ‘nested’ comment concept needs to have a separate Circle, say, right between the Sodomites and the Drunk Bloggers (no offense intended, Stephen Green~!).
serr8d
Agreed. It doesn’t hold my “login” for very long so it’s a pain to relogin (which bounces me right to the first page of comments) then move through the pages to the comment I’m trying to reply to.
And Frey has really REALLy lost his sh*t. He was preening last night he allegedly got “50 emails” from She-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named and is such a good man he didn’t over-react and threaten her family.
WTF – chutzpah doesn’t even cover it.
Oh yeah, the Discus nesting comments. Yeah that is unworkable if you have a big thread.
Frey is actually blaming me for Frisch now. I kid you not!
He may be even worse than she is. At least she is virtually powerless these days, whereas Frey sets out to “destroy” people by wielding his professional title. And by mounting campaigns against them behind the scenes. Or through Google bombing. A lot of people on the right bought in early to his supposed “honor”. But I’m betting they are starting to see what’s really going on.
He’s truly odious.
He is a sad little man. He’d make a good progressive. I think he’s heading in that direction anyway.
His latest at TOM is he and his hentch-bitches comments are being deleted. Oh Baby Obama, what is wrong with him? I did not flag any of his comments (I actually hit “like” a couple of times by mistake). For a guy allegedly having his comments scrubbed, he sure seems to have a lot of them posted. Still Discus is finckey.
I welcome Patterico comments. They are revealing.
I am mourning the Giants melting down today.
He’s still going over there?
Amazing.
Tell me, is he still protesting charges that he’s obsessive? While spending nearly two full days in the comments at another site, talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the post?
— And thinking that he’s doing himself a favor?
I’m trying to imagine what the other 115 timb’s on “disqus” are like and if they all realize that #116 has destroyed their brand across all space and time.
So… *awkward silence* …everybody have a good weekend? Do anything interesting?
Suggested reader poll: Who is the more clueless? Tom Brokaw or Stacy’s guest?
And did Kurtz actually write that with a straight face? How about his editor – did he read it without a 15 min bout of laughter ensuing?
sdferr, would that be the same Tom Brokaw who sat across the Charlie Rose after the ’08 election musing about how we really don’t know who Obama is, because we really haven’t learned anything thing about him? The Tom Brokaw who has me screaming “whose fault is that bitch?” everytime Rush plays that gem of a clip? That Tom Brokaw?
I’d like to [WARNING: trigger alert!] beat him up the side of the head with the clue bat.
heh
Let’s place Brokaw’s concern in the context of a later paragraph in Kurtz’s article, shall we?
And why is it said to be “. . . far better positioned to withstand an Olbermann departure . . .”? Because:
I’d have been ashamed to have made this up.
sdferr, this killed me:
Has nobody over there noticed that if it wasn’t for Rachel, Ed, Chris and Lawrence’s mums, there wouldn’t be any viewing figures at OfA-TV?
You beat me to it again, you stealthy cheese board.
Tartans are swell for the wrappings of the cheese . . . well, that is, if naught else is available.
If I am to be a serviette to your fourth course, so be it.
Look, here’s the bottom line for me: Frey makes a blatant appeal to authority with that link to Glenn Reynolds. Jeff responds, above, and demonstrates convincingly that even if Reynolds is arguing what Frey thinks he’s arguing (which, n.b. he wasn’t) there was nothing “purist” (Frey’s term or adopted by him from somebody else, –it really doesn’t matter any more) about supporting O’Donnell over Castle. R.S. McCain does a similiar post and shows chronologically how it was the refusal of tea-partiers, movement conservatives, classical liberals et. al. to compromise in a pragmatic way with the D.C. GOP establishment and support their “electable” liberal candidates, starting with Scozzofava (sp?) that laid the groundwork for the largely successul midterm election we just had.
And what was Frey’s response: Hey, that unstable Goldstein fellow sure likes to threaten people with death, and violently death at that. tsk. tsk.
Fuck him. In the ass. With a re-bar. A red hot re-bar. Wrapped in
barbedrazor wire.(n.b. It’s called a happy-happy good-times fun-stick. I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake hyperbole for an actual threat.)
Well put Ernst. In all the back and forth about “purists” is has seemed to me that the purest of the purists on view here was Mike Castle (and by proxy, his supporters) who rejected the taint of anyone or anything that was not purely Mike. “Castle or nothing!” was their battle-cry. Not even close to “Anyone but Coons.”
Don’t tell me he’s still going…?
But yes, you’re right, Ernst. My post was about how Frey was (yet again, as he does often, and as I have NOTED often that he does), trying to walk back and refashion earlier arguments to pretend that, see? He was really right all along! — and that it is all these filthy purists (some of whom may or may not be racist, that needs further exploring and a public reader poll before we’re able to reach the determination that we can’t reach a determination) are what’s wrong with conservatism today. And EVEN GLENN REYNOLDS AND MICHELE MALKIN AGREE!
When my post — which, again, was substantive — pointed out that taking a shot at the “purists” was silly, given that Frey and his ilk are the only true “purists” here (and given that I’d earlier argued quite publicly that arguing from ideals, rather than from presumed political expediency, is itself perfectly pragmatic), he reacted by…finding a comment in the bowels of my fundraising thread and turning that into the issue.
The REAL issue, you see, isn’t that Frey is a dissembling, transparent joke straining for relevance and trying to rewrite history, but rather that I decided to lash out at the cyber phantom who stole my identity, on my site, in order to inform people that my son had bone cancer.
That‘s what truly matters. Frey, you see, is just SO PRINCIPLED that he has to suspend talk of all this silly political stuff to FIGHT THIS WRONG — this ISSUING OF A DEATH THREAT against the poor serial troll and his ghostly binary presence, whose only sin was that he told people, as me, that my son had cancer. And isn’t that so very brave of him?
In the face of such EVIL as I represent, politics just seems unimportant. So let’s stop looking at who is right, or who is wrong, or other such trivialities: The REAL ISSUE IS THAT JEFF GOLDSTEIN IS A CRAZED DANGER OUT TO DESTROY INTERNET PEOPLE WITH HIS BARE HANDS!
Oh, and LOOK OVER THERE: KILLER BUNNIES!
Which is what it should have been; especially after the primary was over. People still love to carry on about how O’Donnell’s primary win cost the Rethugs! a seat in Delaware. My response to that is if Castle was so well respected in DE, as much as they contend, then it was his inability to “take it like a man”, be a team player, throatily endorse O’Donnell, and continuously repeat on the stump what you wrote at the end of your remarks, that reallly cost Republicans the DE seat.
The discussion was over after the people spoke in the primary…
Show me your KILLER BUNNIES Goldstein. I’m not afraid!
You! Varlet! Bring me…. The Holy Hand Grenade!
[…] In a stunning development, Glenn Reynolds fails to condemn McConnell for caving to unhelpful kooks demanding ideological fidelity to fiscal conservatism, even if that […]