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Coalition of the willing?

Are states beginning a push back against the feds? Utah State Representative Stephen Sandstrom, appearing “On the Record” with Greta Van Sustern:

SANDSTROM: […] Right now, it’s actually imperative that the state of Utah act aggressively with the same type of legislation that we have in Arizona because in the past, when Arizona has tightened the noose around illegal immigration, so to speak, we’ve seen an influx of illegal aliens leaving the state of Arizona and coming directly to Utah because Utah is seen as a magnet state. We seen as — we’re seeing as being light on illegal immigration here.

VAN SUSTEREN: What’s the reception in Utah? I mean, are people actually — I mean, I can understand why the border states — they’re — you know, they’ve been dealing with the issues of crime and drugs for quite some time. But Utah is a little bit distant from the border. Are you actually feeling some of the illegal immigration in your state?

SANDSTROM: […] Here in the state of Utah, we border to the south with Arizona, and we are seeing the same type of criminal activity here. For instance, over 50,000 of the children in the state of Utah have had their identities stolen by illegal aliens for job- related felonies. We’ve also seen a huge increase in criminal activity, with gang-related violence, drug-related violence all attributed to illegal immigration here in our state.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you worry because, you know, this — I mean, our country — you know, we want to, you know, protect our citizens. We want to ferret out crime. We want to prosecute crime. And we also want to make sure that, you know, we adhere to our Constitution. Do you worry that there will be infringement of constitutional rights or there’ll be civil rights violations? Do you worry that with the statute you are drafting?

SANDSTROM: You know, I’m not worried about that happening because, as the good sheriff just indicated, when you’re stopped for a traffic stop, there has to be probable cause to pursue any type of arrest. And if somebody’s stopped here in the state of Utah and they do not have a driver’s license, they do not have a, say, resident alien card and they do not speak English, that may establish probable cause.

The last thing I would want to see happen in the state of Utah is have racial profiling take place specifically where people are looked at for the color of their skin. That’s just not the case.

So. That’s two racist states and counting.

Pretty soon, Obama, Congressional Dems, and the progressive press will have clearly delineated sides for us in the upcoming soft civil war.

So the question becomes, can DC, Manhattan, San Francisco, Ann Arbor, Austin, Madison, and Hollywood take the rest of us…?

(h/t Danger)

*****
related, from VDH:

One should show concern about some elements of the law, but only in the context of the desperation of the citizens of Arizona. And one should show some skepticism concerning mounting liberal anguish, so often expressed by those whose daily lives are completely unaffected by the revolutionary demographic, cultural, and legal transformations occurring in the American Southwest.

As I understand the opposition to the recent Arizona law, it boils down to something like the following: the federal government’s past decision not to enforce its own law should always trump the state’s right to honor it. That raises interesting questions: Does the state contravene federal authority by exercising it? If the federal government does not protect the borders of a state, does the state have a right to do it itself? The federal government has seemed in the past to be saying that if one circumvented a federal law, and was known to have circumvented federal law with recognized impunity, then there was no longer a law to be enforced.

In addition to being post-racial and post-partisan, it appears Obama’s shooting for post-union, as well.

243 Replies to “Coalition of the willing?”

  1. JHo says:

    And Boulder and Berkeley. Now you’re closer to a majority, boss.

  2. Pablo says:

    MA used to be racist. It could be racist again.

  3. Jeff G. says:

    Oh. Maybe I left out Boulder because I live so close to it, and because I realize I could single-handedly do away with their citizen army by leaving kegs around and then using “Free sandals → ” signs to trap all of them in the Field House.

  4. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Nathan Deal says he’d implement Arizona-style immigration laws.

    Of course, the man voted for ObamaCare on his way out of the US Congress, so this is more likely an attempt to distract than a serious statement.

    Still, it reflects the mood in Georgia.

    The little town where I originally lived in Georgia is now an Hispanic ghetto, complete with abuelas and gang graffiti. We’ve recently had Mexican drug gang-related killings in the Atlanta metro area

    Driving around Atlanta, I am struck by all the day laborers looking for work, every day.

    Also, how many Mexicans can you stuff into a single ranch-style house. Man! Drive around Chamblee, and you’ll see driveways with 6+ cars in the driveway.

    Yes, yes, I know. I’m a racist. Well, here’s the deal: I’m also an American, and I’m sick and tired of being asked to “Press ‘1’ to continue in English.”

  5. JD says:

    You are racist and taking a shit on the Constitution. That is all.

  6. dicentra says:

    They clutch their pearls at the thought of latinos whose families have been here for years being harassed for Being Brown.

    Guess what? If a cop pulls you over for speeding and you speak fluent English with no accent, all “probable cause” evaporates right there.

    when you’re stopped for a traffic stop, there has to be probable cause to pursue any type of arrest.

    Arrest? ARREST? I thought they just got to inquire after your status, and if you can’t prove you’re legal, THEN they take action.

  7. dicentra says:

    BTW, my neighborhood is rife with those eight-car houses which have multiple families therein. I don’t blame them for pooling their resources like that. It’s a good idea. I know two brothers from the Congo who share a house with their familes. It’s not just a Latino thing. More power to ’em.

    They don’t wreck my stuff, steal my stuff, or keep me up late at night, which is all I require from my neighbors.

    Thought a little lawn care wouldn’t hurt.

  8. dicentra says:

    Lawn care on their houses, that is. They’re not used to having these high-maintenance swathes to care for during the summer. Mexican houses have patios, yo, and the front yard is often the sidewalk.

    Though yesterday I saw a Latino kid mowing his lawn, so there’s that.

  9. Silver Whistle says:

    Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush and Karl Rove aren’t down with the coalition:

    Rubio: the law puts the Arizona’s police force in an “incredibly difficult position.”

    Jeb Bush:  the law is not “the proper approach.” “I think it creates unintended consequences,” he said. “It’s difficult for me to imagine how you’re going to enforce this law. It places a significant burden on local law enforcement and you have civil liberties issues that are significant as well.”

    Rove: “I think there is going to be some constitutional problems with the bill….At the end of the day,” he said, “I think there are better tools.”

  10. Squid says:

    Rubio: the law puts the Arizona’s police force in an “incredibly difficult position.”

    Someone should tell Rubio that the law is the least of the police force’s worries. The porous border and escalating drug wars are maybe — just maybe! — of more import than this law.

  11. Blake says:

    Hah, Bush, Rove and Rubio…the real intellectual heavyweight I use as my guide with these tricky issues is Meghan McCain.

    Meghan has come out against the law, which settles the issue for me.

    http://tinyurl.com/2d9mpts

  12. dicentra says:

    On the other hand, the more the libs threaten to boycott UT and AZ, the faster we’ll pass these laws.

    I mean, a moonbat-free state? We’re gonna pass on that?

  13. Silver Whistle says:

    I believe it gives the state police a license to discriminate, and also, in many ways, violates the civil rights of Arizona residents.

    says Meghan "MENSA" McCain. Could have sworn that discrimination and violation of civil rights were already high up on the naughty-naughty-go-to-jail scale. This law suddenly repealed all that bothersome stuff? Wow.

  14. Jeff G. says:

    Here come the GOP “pragmatists.”

    From what I understand, the state law is not much different from on the books fed statutes, save that they give local governent enforcement controls.

    The idea that there are “better tools” for criminalizing criminality than enforcing the law is silly and unproductive. Either we are a nation of laws or we aren’t. And if the government gets to pick and choose which laws to uphold, it has lost its authority to uphold any.

    They have become tyrants who use force to coerce, nothing more.

  15. JD says:

    dicentra – My brother in Park City said last night that he hopes the libs follow through on their threats to boycott, unlike the Baldwin/Streisand types …

  16. Jeff G. says:

    in many ways, violates the civil rights of Arizona residents.

    So fuck them if they don’t think so, and if they want this law in 7 out of 10 cases.

    Meghan knows best!

  17. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i just don’t think you can spin this one to your advantage.
    you have already lathered up all the base you have right now.
    ‘feets is right, you should have let this sleeping dog lie until after you harvested your mid-term bonus.
    its going to cost you with youth, college-educated, and minorities….demographics you are losing in.
    and it just whips up the racists and nativists and white grievence christians and conferate reactionaries that you already own.
    It plays right into Obama’s strategy of renewing his winning electoral coalition, and whips up enthusiasm for the midterms.
    Failsauce.

  18. Jeff G. says:

    Oh, by the way. Does this mean Nishi becomes a de facto Rubio supporter?

    Or that Meghan is now exempt from the two-digit, epistemically-closed posse of demographic fail?

  19. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    and…in 2008 non-hispanic cauc was 70% of the electorate.
    you still lost.

  20. Silver Whistle says:

    Meghan and Nishi, joined at the IQ. Arf, arf.

  21. McGehee says:

    Though yesterday I saw a Latino kid mowing his lawn, so there’s that.

    Are you sure it was his? Hey, maybe if two housefuls of illegals lived next door to each other they’d have the best yards in the neighborhood because they’d hire each other to take care of them.

    Aaaannnnnd now I’ll just self-denounce before JD starts talking mayonnaise.

  22. Jeff G. says:

    It plays right into Obama’s strategy of renewing his winning electoral coalition, and whips up enthusiasm for the midterms.

    Well, in theory, illegals shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

    The rest is bullshit. The majority of Americans favor enforcing laws. Even if they don’t say as much publicly.

    You overestimate the marketing going on from the left. People are really beginning to care less that sniffing elites with no skin in the game call them backward hicktard racists.

    Especially now that Mallow pies are the only kind of desserts they can afford, and Obama is planning on hiking the cost of their salty chips next.

    Never fuck with a person’s salty snack, failbot.

    lawl.

  23. sdferr says:

    It’s an emulsion McGehee, kinda like having alien nationals living in your neighborhood.

  24. Jeff G. says:

    in 2008 non-hispanic cauc was 70% of the electorate.
    you still lost.

    Yup. People voted for symbolism. And they got burned.

    I don’t care what they say publicly. Once the curtain closes, nobody is going to make that mistake again.

    Deal with it, failbot.

  25. JHo says:

    Does this mean Nishi becomes a de facto Rubio supporter?

    Probably as much as any orbiting non-meatspace transhumanist can from just outside Keid A’s Roche limit…

  26. JD says:

    At this point, by all available evidence, Meghan the Hoochie’s IQ appears to be at least twice as high as nishit the lying twat’s.

  27. JD says:

    What is failsauce? Is it anything like the Barcky lurvsauce nishit has running down her chin?

  28. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Actually i think Rubio is the best you have right now…..hes a little corrupt, but at least he spent RNC monies on his family (groceries and minivan dents) instead of mistresses and designer underwear.
    I truly dig Jindal but he isn’t telegenic enough.

    i agree with you Jeff.

    nah nah hey hey
    it don’t matter what they say
    as long as they dont vote that way

    November is 5 months off.
    many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.
    it largely depends on the economy.
    ;)

  29. Blake says:

    Nishi, you’re drooling again. Wipe your chin, sit up and try to act as if there is some residual intelligence left.

    Elections are won and lost based on the independent vote. Independents heavily favored Obama in the last election.

    Along with a lot of conservatives disliking McCain enough to stay home.

    Independents are moving toward Team R. More than likely, Democrats are facing the problem of having a lot of their voters sit at home, because those voters won’t vote R and they can’t bring themselves to vote Democrat.

  30. JD says:

    …..hes a little corrupt

    Proof, please. I do not think that word means anything close to how you use it, but we know how you have unique definitions of words.

    Largely depends on the economy? If that is the case, Barcky would be removed from office mid-term.

  31. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Jeff, Jeff, Jeff….a large part of your base ARE backwards hicktard christian nativist racists.
    All this chaff only obscures that for YOUR cohort.
    Actual minorities, college-educated, and youth are not fooled.

  32. Pablo says:

    JD, Meghan’s breasteses have double the griefer’s intelligence. Each.

  33. JD says:

    .a large part of your base ARE backwards hicktard christian nativist racists.

    Back to Meme #2 today. Fuck you, you lying cunt. That is all.

  34. JD says:

    Pablo – That is simply a function of volume, not actual functioning gray matter.

  35. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    ::warning:: conservative disinformation alert! ::warning::

    “Along with a lot of conservatives disliking McCain enough to stay home.”

    actually there was record turnout for both sides.

    The empirical data is GW won by 5 ec votes in 2000, and by 35 ec votes (during a war!) in 2004.
    You just don’t have the numbers any more.

  36. Silver Whistle says:

    Everyone except for HuffPo paint huffers and Meghan McCain’s intellectual equals thinks enforcing the law is good. This is win win win. All the way to the midterms.

  37. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Obama won by 193 ec votes in 2008
    that is a hella lot to make up.

  38. JD says:

    Silver Whistle – I hope they run on the ideas of not enforcing the law, and amnesty, and use nishit’s themes of your are all stooopid racist hicktards. I beg them to.

  39. DarthRove says:

    Gotta stop using IE to read pw. TrollHammer no workee.

  40. JD says:

    In addition to being post-racial and post-partisan, it appears Obama’s shooting for post-union, as well.

    That is a great sentence.

  41. Squid says:

    You just don’t have the numbers any more.

    What it lacks in analytical function, it more than makes up for in repetition. I’m addressing this to the audience, since the SFAG is one old dog that will never learn a new trick.

    The idea that “you just don’t have the numbers any more” is actually true in a way. This is because the GOP spent a decade working on becoming Democrat-lite. Compassionate conservatism, irresponsible spending, and pandering to identity groups eroded the party’s appeal to the vast swath of regular Americans who’d like to be left alone to live their lives in peace.

    Yes, Virginia, believe it or not — most Americans remain good people who just want to be left alone, and would dearly love it if they could spend the fruits of their labor on their own happiness, instead of having it stolen to purchase votes from Statist parasites.

    What the Nishbot cannot and will never acknowledge is that the Tea Party movement is about reclaiming this vast swath of voters, who in recent elections have been forced to decide whether to vote for someone they hold in contempt, or to just stay home on Election Day.

    It’s sad that a Superior Being like the Nishgoddess can’t see that the things she mocks are the same things that the rest of us can’t stand. Only instead of desperately clinging to the fiction that we’re so much smarter and above it all, we’re actively working to challenge the status quo, and demanding representation in government, whether it means dragging the Dems or the GOP kicking and screaming to our point of view, or creating a third party to supplant the superfluous two that we have now. Time will tell.

    I just hope that years from now, when age has given it a bit of wisdom, and modern medicine has straightened out its bad brain chemistry, the Nishbot will look back on these days and laugh at how pitifully stupid it was.

  42. JD says:

    Monsters do not generally engage is self-reflection, even upon maturation, Squid. Freddy Kreuger just keeps getting meaner.

  43. bh says:

    Well, if we’re looking at the horse race aspects, let’s look to Rasmussen:

    Last week, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed an immigration law that launched a national debate. It has also at least temporarily helped her own chances of remaining Arizona’s governor.

    A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of likely voters in the state shows that 56% now approve of the way Brewer is performing her role as governor. Two weeks ago, just 40% offered their approval.

    And:

    This is the second big issue in two months to boost Brewer’s prospects for being elected to her own full-term in office. In March, Brewer trailed Goddard by nine percentage points. Then, after passage of the federal health care law, Goddard refused to file a lawsuit against the federal government challenging the constitutionality of the law. Brewer found a way around that objection, and Arizona joined other states in the legal challenge. After that, Brewer’s numbers improved to a slight advantage over Goddard.

    It seems someone’s hypothesis isn’t conforming with reality. Will any empirical instinct kick in? At this point, doubtful. Some people think. Others spout a rotating set of stagnant memes.

  44. sdferr says:

    “…when age has given it a bit of wisdom…”

    Don’t think it works that way. Nancy Pelosi, for instance, has plenty of aging in hand….

  45. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    the Nishbot will look back on these days and laugh at how pitifully stupid it was.

    Maybe, maybe not…..who can say?
    This looks like more colossally bad timing.
    by all means, let the nativists turn a _whole potential state_ against the GOP.
    hahaha
    i for one welcome Our New Permanent Liberal Realignment Overlords.
    <3

  46. Blake says:

    Squid, Nishi didn’t even bother to read the link it provided. The article confirms a record number of voters turned out, period. No where does the article break down vote count by party affiliation.

    So, who’s pushing disinformation, again, Nishi?

  47. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    But Rasmussen is fakestatistics…..like Strategic Vision was.

    Conservatives don’t like the results of actual statistical anlysis, so they just make shit up.
    Like FOXnews.

  48. bh says:

    Epistemic closure!

  49. Benedick says:

    Nishi’s counting how many electoral college votes the R’s need to make up in a non-presidential election. Fucking brilliant. Civics Fail.

  50. JD says:

    bh – facts are mere hurdles when the nishimonster is servicing its Narrative. The one that claims to worship at the altar of science hates facts, and simply ignores those that do not comport with its bizarre worldview. Now it is attempting to change the subject.

  51. bh says:

    Contrary evidence be damned. There’s a meme to push!

  52. maggie katzen says:

    um, Jeff, your blog eated my comment. which, is probably for the best. but gee is work boring right about now.

  53. bh says:

    Cocoons are comfortable. Until they aren’t.

  54. JD says:

    I typed that thing about the nishimonster ignoring that which does not comport with her bizarre worldview before I saw that she was actively doing so.

  55. Jeff G. says:

    by all means, let the nativists turn a _whole potential state_ against the GOP.

    I spoke on this yesterday in a comment.

    PR is run by progressives. Removing the commonwealth option is a gambit to ensure a vote for statehood. Because then PR is hoping to be seated, and demand bailout money. Refusal to accept the demand will be branded “racist.”

    Ask US voters if they want to take on a 51st state — one that is as poor as Mississippi — and is run by progressives who are looking for bailout money.

    Enjoy your new country and independence, PR! Americans choose “racism.”

  56. JD says:

    Ironic part, not that the statist proggs would care, is that PR has voted against statehood at least 3 times. But the leftist proggs know better, and want to go all imperial and territorial on their ass.

  57. Benedick says:

    There’s no place to put the star anyway.

  58. Danger says:

    “I just hope that years from now, when age has given it a bit of wisdom, and modern medicine has straightened out its bad brain chemistry, the Nishbot will look back on these days and laugh at how pitifully stupid it was.”

    Squid,

    Very unselfish of you to offer that but I think it’s gonna take something greater than modern medicine to grant that wish.

  59. JD says:

    I think it’s gonna take something greater than modern medicine to grant that wish.

    Electro-shock?

    Frontal lobotomy?

    Repeated blows to the head with a ball peen hammer?

  60. JD says:

    Maybe she is hypoxic due to having a constant mouthful of Barcky lurvsauce.

  61. bh says:

    If the griefer can identify the two obvious errors in the Silver post, I’d be happy to then talk about it.

  62. […] it’s an odd kind of Nazi state that everyone wants to sneak in to. var a2a_config = a2a_config || {}; a2a_config.linkname="There is No Arizona…But There […]

  63. JD says:

    Don’t hold your breath, bh. That fits with its Narrative therefore it is the TWOOOOOF and questioning that shows you are an anti-science hicktard racist hilljack. That is all.

  64. bh says:

    Hilljack!

  65. Slartibartfast says:

    Lawn care on their houses, that is.

    Oh. For a minute there, I thought you were making an oblique hedge-trimming comment.

    Rasmussen is fakestatistics

    Next up, we’ll hear from the baseball commissioner on SCOTUS decisions.

    Nate Silver is a sports statistician. Among sports statisticians, he’s probably supergenius at stats, but that’s a pretty low bar to clear. You might be able to clear it, for instance.

  66. JD says:

    Not a chance the nishimonster could clear that bar, Slarti.

  67. Slartibartfast says:

    I said it was a low bar.

  68. JD says:

    I said it was a low bar.

    Yes, and she would either trip over it, or bump her forehead on it.

  69. Slartibartfast says:

    Just because she has a problem understanding that you can’t move the mean of a normalized distribution?

    Picky, JD. Very picky.

  70. bdam says:

    “Yes, yes, I know. I’m a racist. Well, here’s the deal: I’m also an American, and I’m sick and tired of being asked to “Press ‘1? to continue in English.””

    Thanks for refreshingly eschewing that “We have no problem with legal immigrants” line.

  71. Danger says:

    Gym time slackers,

    Try not to break the blog while I’m gone (looking at maggie;)

  72. JD says:

    Hilljacks.

  73. Blake says:

    Intelligencist!!

  74. JD says:

    STFU, meya.

  75. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “Ask US voters if they want to take on a 51st state ”

    how did other territories and commonwealths (if there were any, i confess I don’t know) acquire statehood?
    did the existing Union states have to vote them in?
    Is there a constitutional mechanism for that?

  76. JD says:

    Here is a hint. Nishi does not care about the answers to any of its questions. It just wants to call you racist jesuslanders who are cousinfucking hilljacks.

  77. Slartibartfast says:

    Good questions, nishi.

    Let us know when you’ve figured out the answers. A five-second Google ought to sort things out for you.

  78. dicentra says:

    Gotta stop using IE to read pw.

    My place of employment forces me to use IE 6, because so many of their apps use IE for the GUI. My desktop is totally locked down. I can’t even install an update.

    After a thread surpasses 50 comments, the left column begins to swallow the comments to the point where I have to copy and paste the thread to Notepad to read it.

    Which gets rid of italics and blockquotes, so I can’t tell what’s what.

    And the Say It button vanishes under the left column, too. I have to use Tab to find it, then press Enter.

    Pity me! Even though I have Windows 7 at home!

  79. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “A five-second Google ought to sort things out for you.”

    well.okthen..i just assumed Jeff already knew.

  80. JD says:

    And Jeff exists to serve you?!

  81. Slartibartfast says:

    I have to copy and paste the thread to Notepad to read it.

    Use “View source”. Cut out all but the part you want to read, then save it as text on your desktop. Then change the extension to .html. Open it in IE. Done!

  82. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Nope, but he might have wanted to persuade me that he was on the side of the angels this time.
    Instead I read…..
    Article IV, Section 3, of the Federal Constitution grants Congress the power to admit new states to the union. The Constitution does not define, nor specify, the conditions in which statehood is ceded to a territory. Thus, Congress has the liberty to determine the conditions for admission.

    Historically, the process to follow for the granting of statehood is as follows: a majority of the population of the territory votes in favor of annexation; the territory petitions Congress to become a state; the territory constitutes its government in Republican form; then, the Federal House and Senate approve a joint resolution designating the territorial area as a state.
    Finally, the President signs the joint resolution approving admission. To petition for statehood, a simple majority is needed, and not an absolute or super majority. In addition, Puerto Rico already has a republican system of government and a local constitution completely compatible with the federal constitution.

    Those who oppose Puerto Rico statehood have argued that the amount of time that has passed since we were ceded through the Paris Treaty makes statehood impossible. Nonetheless, history has shown that a mere passing of time should not be an obstacle for statehood. There are a number of states that have delayed considerably in achieving statehood since having been designated territories, including during the expansionist process, like, for example, Alaska(92 years) and Oklahoma (104 years).

    Therefore, the passing of time as a colony will not be an obstacle for the granting of statehood. Never in the history of the United States has a territory been denied its petition to become a state.

    Puerto Rico becoming a state is simply a question of will.

  83. Carin says:

    Can someone please explain why this is suddenly an issue now?

    I mean, other than the obvious answer.

  84. JD says:

    Historically, the process to follow for the granting of statehood is as follows: a majority of the population of the territory votes in favor of annexation

    PR has voted this down at least 3 times.

    Puerto Rico becoming a state is simply a question of will.

    Yes, the will of the Dems to ignore the will of the Puerto Rican people.

  85. JD says:

    Carin – The obvious is the only reason. It is being pushed by nobody expect the House Dems, and it will never go past there.

  86. sdferr says:

    “Never in the history of the United States has a territory been denied its petition to become a state.”

    So? Judgment still prevails. Choices are made.

  87. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    umm…Carin…i maintain the Arizona bill and the probable conservative rejection of PR statehood are examples of bad timing and PR gaffes, in that conservatives should be assiduaouly courting hispanic/latino electoral demographics.
    Isn’t there a more politic way to respond to PR’s quest for statehood than “just say no”?

  88. LTC John says:

    dicentra – I am in the same situation as you…our IT blows. Many have told the CEO to his face, and he cringes and acknowledges it. But we still have IE 6 and similarly aged computers, the finest monitors of 1999 and machines that proudly boast of being built for this new fangled Windows XP…

  89. scooter (still not libby) says:

    There will room for Puerto Rico on the flag when you remove the Texas star. If you take my meaning.

  90. scooter (still not libby) says:

    “Never in the history of the United States has a territory been denied its petition to become a state.”

    Never in the history of the United States has a comprehensive health care reform bill been passed by the U.S. Congress. We are living in historical times.

  91. JD says:

    LtC John – I once had to do all of my reserving and reporting on a mainframe system.

    probable conservative rejection of PR statehood

    Standing directly next to the people of PR is a bad thing?

  92. Slartibartfast says:

    I think the thing is not so much statehood as the assumed addition of a couple of million D voters to the rolls, plus a certain number of those electoral votes that are so crucial to midterm elections.

    If it was about some kind of principle, we’d also be hearing about the US Virgin Islands, Guam, and a few other oppressed (but less populous) territories.

  93. bh says:

    Well, I suppose we could require they get their fiscal house in order before being admitted. And then continually repeat this in front of microphones.

    That’s surely something the Dems want to talk about, right?

  94. scooter (still not libby) says:

    Sorry, should have said “Never BEFORE.” But I think you know what I’m getting at.

  95. Slartibartfast says:

    i just assumed Jeff already knew.

    I already knew. But it’s good for the soul for you to go find things out for yourself.

  96. JD says:

    That is pure silliness, bh. Hoyer, who appears to be one of the ones pushing this, was in the WSJ talking about how fiscal responsibility is a core Dem principle, or something equally untrue.

  97. The Mood in Georgia says:

    I’m perfectly happy to have people immigrate here legally.

    I am, however, utterly opposed to the “salad bowl” notion of America. That way lies balkanization, and as we all know, the Balkans regularly manufacture more history than they can consume locally.

    If you come here, get in the melting pot. Learn English. Drop the notion of being a “hyphenated” American.

    With the advent of modern communications and transport technology, people have stopped thinking about emigration to America as being a commitment to something new. Instead, they’ve begun to see it as a chance to live the way they’ve always lived, except in better economic circumstances. Carry that on for too long, and what do you have, exactly? Sarajevo in North Georgia, that’s what you have.

    So, I’m happy to have people immigrate legally – and *integrate*.

  98. happyfeet says:

    integrate with which parts though?

  99. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear Happyfeet: Don’t be an obtuse ass.

  100. happyfeet says:

    Well I can’t see how you should expect anyone to be especially eager to integrate with the grumpy parts.

  101. Mike LaRoche says:

    Nishi is proof that a college education isn’t what it used to be.

  102. Makewi says:

    …and if you can’t prove you’re legal,

    I don’t doubt for a second your commitment to individual liberty dicentra. Having said that, I take issue with this statement for reasons which you can probably guess.

  103. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    But it’s good for the soul for you to go find things out for yourself.

    but i don’t have a soul….just ask JD.
    i usta have a cookieheart but it melted, and now i have an indestructable titianium cortical stack.

  104. Slartibartfast says:

    Good for my soul. Probably ought to have been more clear, but mostly I don’t bother because clarity doesn’t seem to add anything, when dealing with you.

  105. TheThinMan says:

    Sorry for going OT on PR–the largest vote getter in the last island-wide election was an (R), he broke a 44 year-old record for his scale of victory (+240,000 votes). Speaker of the House in PR is an (R), President of the Senate is an (R). The majority of mayors on the island are (R). An overwhelming majority are pro-life.

  106. sdferr says:

    Has Obiwanabama spoken out on what a hideous decision that is yet Mike?

  107. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear 111: Thanks for taking that out of context.

  108. Mike LaRoche says:

    Not yet, sdferr. He’s probably waiting for the New Atheists and pseudo-sufis to issue a fatwa, first.

  109. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear 111: Are you still supporting honor killings?

  110. kresh says:

    …now i have an indestructable titianium cortical stack.

    I’d bet good money you don’t know what that is. I bet it sounded pretty cool in the sci-fi novel you yoinked it from.

  111. sdferr says:

    “Imagine the nerve of people coming here to carry on better and more fruitful lives.”

    Sure, while they spit on American law, the American flag as symbol of American political unity, free-ride on their neighbor’s property taxes, collect handouts from the government, send their remittances back to Oaxaca, and look forward to returning themselves as soon as they’ve amassed a sufficient nest-egg to build that house next to Grandma they’ve been planning on. Other than that, what’s not to like?

  112. JD says:

    A dead and rotting tse tse fly has more of a soul than that lying genocidal eugencist, the nishit monster.

  113. PCachu says:

    Speaking as one of the general region, Ann Arbor is a total pussy. In terms of returned injury, you’re more likely to hurt yourself tripping over it.

  114. bdam says:

    “Dear 111: Are you still supporting honor killings?”

    Are they doing it in english and without hyphens? How about this simple rubric — people have a first amendment right to speak whatever language they want, but not to kill. Is that one too tough for you?

  115. RD says:

    Breaking news from Pima County:

    Sheriff Dupnik said he believes the law will never be implemented, because he considers it unconstitutional

    .

    Ya think?

  116. Squid says:

    All right then, bdam, good on you for supporting the rights of immigrant girls not to be killed by their families. It’s nice to know that you draw a line somewhere between spoken language and murder.

    Now let’s define it a little more distinctly. Can immigrant families keep their daughters from attending school? Can they demand single-sex schools as a condition of allowing their girls to attend? Can they marry off their daughters in arranged marriages that work to the father’s advantage? Can they restrict their daughters from driving a car? Can they forbid their daughters from dating outside their community? Can they force their daughters to wear traditional garb?

    Are some of these things supportable? Supportable only to age 18, or whenever the daughter leaves the household? To the extent that American values are more progressive than traditional values, do they supersede those traditional values, even if that means coming into contradiction with the progressive value that says traditional values are more valuable than progressive values?

    Enlighten us.

  117. Squid says:

    Look, everybody! RD is here is teach us about constitutional law!

    What does Sheriff Dupnik think of the federal government taking over the financial, insurance, car manufacturing, student loan, and health care industries, RD? Surely a man whom you cite as an expert on constitutional law has further wisdom to share.

  118. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Now let’s define it a little more distinctly. Can immigrant families keep their daughters from attending school? Can they demand single-sex schools as a condition of allowing their girls to attend? Can they marry off their daughters in arranged marriages that work to the father’s advantage? Can they restrict their daughters from driving a car? Can they forbid their daughters from dating outside their community? Can they force their daughters to wear traditional garb?
    Are some of these things supportable? Supportable only to age 18, or whenever the daughter leaves the household? To the extent that American values are more progressive than traditional values, do they supersede those traditional values, even if that means coming into contradiction with the progressive value that says traditional values are more valuable than progressive values?

    wow Squid, you just almost exactly described Darleen’s Utopia aka Yearning For Zion!!!!!!
    hahahaha

  119. JD says:

    Squid – nishi-monster and meya/R5/etal would not get your point if you hit them in the forehead with a cluebat.

  120. Benedick says:

    As series of nine questions is now a description. Reading Comprehension Fail.

  121. The Mood in Georgia says:

    We’re going to have another 5 May parade here in Chamblee. On that day, the local illegal Mexican immigrant population will show with signs complaining about the racism of being illegal for being brown, and all the rest of that obfuscation. The parading throng will also wave Mexican flags, drink beer until drunk and maudlin, sing songs about how much Mexico is missed, and make outrageous statements of hatred about the US racism to local news crews.

    Next day, these people will still be living in Chamblee.

    I propose we lose the “E Pluribus Unum” bit. Instead, let’s have “Even Our Worst Critics Prefer To Stay.”

  122. Slartibartfast says:

    people have a first amendment right to speak whatever language they want

    They don’t have a first amendment right to be understood, though, by the folks down at the DMV.

  123. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Can immigrant polyg families keep their daughters from attending school? check
    Can they demand single-sex schools as a condition of allowing their girls to attend? check!
    Can they marry off their daughters in arranged marriages that work to the father’s advantage? check! even arranged spirit plural marriages of 13 yr olds to 50 year old men with current wives legal wives.
    Can they restrict their daughters from driving a car? check!
    Can they forbid their daughters from dating outside their community? check! they can even “exile” all the dating age boys!
    Can they force their daughters to wear traditional garb? check! “prairie dresses”

    Are some of these things supportable? Supportable only to age 18, or whenever the daughter leaves the household? To the extent that American values are more progressive than traditional values, do they supersede those traditional values, even if that means coming into contradiction with the progressive value that says traditional values are more valuable than progressive values?

  124. Benedick says:

    This Mood in Georgia fellow. I like the cut of his jib.

  125. sdferr says:

    “…people have a first amendment right…”

    People currently living in Oaxaca have a first amendment right?

  126. JD says:

    Nishi’s religion oppresses women, homosexuals, and she is the enlightened one ?

  127. bh says:

    Folks were mentioning Rubio upthread. He’s… blaming the Feds. See, that wasn’t so hard to handle now, was it?

  128. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    hahaha, you guyz……so teatarded!
    <3

  129. serr8d says:

    Is Nishams speaking of her cohorts at Talk Islam again ?

  130. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear 130: T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII! Is that you?!?!?!!!!

  131. Makewi says:

    I rarely trollhammer anyone, but Nishi’s self enforced stupidity just makes my head hurt. I don’t think she actually is stupid, cruel yes, but not stupid, so reading her intentionally work at being stupid is too much for me lately.

    Buh-Bye Nishi.

  132. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear 137: I believe the traditional farewell is “Plonk!”

  133. sdferr says:

    How about an invading Army? Would an invading Army, present on American soil have first amendment rights?

  134. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    yup bh, give Rubio an atta-boi for tryin to spin this onto the feds.
    i repeat, you already have ALL the nativists on your side.
    These are the people you DON’T have.

    Arizona Latinos have gone, literally overnight, from being perhaps the most pro-GOP in the nation, to joining California as the most anti-GOP ones in the nation…Within a decade, Arizona will be as reliably Democratic as California is today. And when that day arrives, we’ll be able to trace it all to last Friday’s passage of SB 1070.

  135. bdam says:

    “How about an invading Army? Would an invading Army, present on American soil have first amendment rights?”

    Lincoln tells us that no. They don’t.

  136. bdam says:

    “They don’t have a first amendment right to be understood, though, by the folks down at the DMV.”

    That sounds more like a due process or equal protection type thing.

  137. Benedick says:

    Quoting Excitable Andy Sullivan is definitely going to win us over. Dolt.

  138. Squid says:

    Who knows. Where you did learn how to sound like a Rasmussen robo-call?

    I don’t know what Rasmussen’s robots sound like. You obviously do; I imagine it must piss you off to no end that so few people answer the robots with responses similar to your own.

  139. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Im quoting Kos.
    what makes you think i want to win you over?
    I want Jeff back on the sane side.
    the rest of you is more like point and laff.

  140. JD says:

    Trollish moronic convergences are always fugly.

  141. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Here’s the deal: I’m not particularly interested in debate. I want illegal immigrants gone and I want legal immigrants integrated. Failure to do these things will result in balkanization and national suicide.

    I’m not interested in increasing the size of the Democrat voter base at the expense of my country.

    The logic choppers here can condemn all they want, but this is where the country is going. Since the Federal government will not protect the borders, the states will have to do it instead. The great thing about the new media is the disintermediation of the legacy media (the wholly-owned propaganda arm of the Democrat party), allowing the rest of us to route around that particular network outage and organize to save ourselves.

  142. JD says:

    You think that quoting Screw Em Kos is going to win Jeff over to your side?! You are a fucking imbecile of the highest order.

  143. Squid says:

    What gets me is the absolute refusal of our Moral Superiors to acknowledge that millions of illegal immigrants put a tremendous strain on our “social safety net,” diluting resources that would otherwise be available for people who’ve been put out of work by recent job-killing measures from their state legislatures and Congress.

    Further, our Moral Superiors expect that none of these folks waiting in line for benefits take any notice of this competition for scarce resources.

    Seven out of ten, people. Seven out of ten.

  144. Slartibartfast says:

    the rest of you is more like point and laff

    Yes, we are. Perceptive of you to note.

    We’ll probably keep laughing a bit after you’ve left, too, but then we’ll find someone else to point and laugh at.

  145. mojo says:

    Yep. The Arizona illegals are already making noises about moving to Utah, New Mexico or California. Utah will probably pass a similar law to Arizona’s, New Mexico and California will not. So NM and CA will be having even more mouths to feed. Lucky, huh?

  146. SDN says:

    Since the law was written at the state level, let’s hope the Sheriff is happy when the Arizona State Troopers show up to arrest him for malfeasance and violating his oath of office to enforce the laws of the state.

  147. The Mood in Georgia says:

    Dear 153: I’d normally be happy to let NM and CA lie in the beds they’ve made.

    However, consider the implication of a CA “bankruptcy” – Federalization of CAs debt. This is coming, and will mean *all* of us paying for the insane decisions of our moral superiors and their associated public sector employee unions.

    The laws that will come after will make Arizona’s look like the kid gloves it is.

  148. bh says:

    Silly griefer. Stem cells. All of this because of stem cells.

  149. serr8d says:

    There are provisos in the law that allow citizens to force recalcitrant law enforcement types to enforce the law or be subject to butthurts in the amount of $1K to $5K per day. I would hope it would come right out of Sheriff Dupnik’s pocketses.

  150. bh says:

    When you think about it, an evil internet virus made of FAIL is essentially a vaccination.

    Operation Poor Advocate and Memetic Antibody Promotion! Thanks!

  151. motionview says:

    This whole bullshit hoopla is the biggest of the big lies we’ve seen lately. The Left is purposefully ignoring “On Lawful Contact” so that they can fire up the base. The reality is that Obama screwed his youthful supporters with the health care bill and they need to be distracted.

  152. serr8d says:

    Dupnik is a Democrat (who knew?) who’s been entrenched as Sheriff since 1980. The local Gannett rag endorsed him (cached g00gle version, the ‘live’ one is missing) in 2008…

    Dupnik cannot possibly take on the federal job of chasing down illegal immigrants while still providing law enforcement services to county residents. But he has formed a border crimes unit to go after those who commit crimes after entering the country illegally.

    Shaw has worked for several law enforcement agencies, including the Department of Corrections. He now works security for Raytheon Missile Systems.

    Shaw blames Dupnik for not doing more to prevent crime and says he will put more deputies on the street and “close down the border.” He says he can do that while cutting costs and providing better services to residents.

    Notice Dupnik gets a ‘pass’ from the paper for not ‘chasing down illegal immigrants’, while his Republican opponent vowed to do so.

    If this race were re-run this year, I’ll bet Shaw would easily win.

  153. sdferr says:

    As per serr8d’s comment at 158, the law reads:

    11-1051, G. A person who is a legal resident of this state may bring an action in superior court to challenge any official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state that adopts or implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law. If there is a judicial finding that an entity has violated this section, the court shall order that the entity pay a civil penalty of not less than one thousand dollars and not more than five thousand dollars for each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of an action pursuant to this subsection.

  154. RD says:

    Notice Dupnik gets a ‘pass’ from the paper for not ‘chasing down illegal immigrants’, while his Republican opponent vowed to do so.

    This is probably because the relationships between Arizona Republicans and local businesses presumably employing illegals have mostly been interesting, to say the least.

  155. Danger says:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/28/audio-rubio-blasts-federal-failures-as-cause-of-az-action-on-immigration/

    Already mentioned by bh and nishi but I’d like to hear Happyfeets take on this.

    Seems like pretty savvy marketing, No?

  156. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Danger, I actually think that little speech tipped Crist into his independent run.
    He’s bettin’ Florida latinos and hispanics are gonna run from Rubio like scalded cats now, right into his waiting arms.
    /sniff
    does n/e one smell coconut?

  157. LTC John says:

    Oh yeah, FL, land of D voting…Cuban-Americans. I am sure they will be burning tires in the street in “solidarity”. Please wager large money on Crist. Please.

  158. JD says:

    Nishimonster let her little racist out. Fuck you, twat.

    LtC John – it was pretty apparent that it was lying when it type “I think ….”. That is a tell. Like when Barcky says “it has always been my position”, or “let me be very clear”.

  159. happyfeet says:

    Rubio is brave.

    Mostly it’s a nice illustration of how stupid and distracty this law was at this time.

    The future little Rubios look at him and are probably thinking gack. It’s now vastly important to Team R that Rubio win, more so than it ever should have been.

  160. Thorgina McSaladtosser says:

    Nishit, the most uninteresting cunt in the world! A rotating meme generator.

  161. Grass Root says:

    “stupid and distracty”

    Tell that to Robert Krentz.

    If the Imperial Federal Government refuses to protect its citizens, if it decides to leave open the border to murderers and drug smugglers, then the States will simply have to take over the job the Federal Government has abdicated.

    This is what got the Arizona Militiamen started back when Boy George was in power. Things have only gotten worse under The Won.

  162. happyfeet says:

    yes I think. Stupoid and also distracty. This hoochie what Mr. Instapundit links makes good sense. Good for her I think.

    If the right gets really exercised and emotional about this, they will be weakened. Emotionalism does not convince people to get behind you. It makes people run in the other direction.

  163. happyfeet says:

    *Stupid* I mean

  164. bh says:

    If the right gets really exercised and emotional about this, they will be weakened. Emotionalism does not convince people to get behind you. It makes people run in the other direction.

    That’s pretty good advice all around if I may be an annoying hall monitor for a moment.

    (Yes, I hate myself when I’m like this.)

  165. happyfeet says:

    hmm. That would make my comment in #171 exceedingly ironic, as I myself am frequently given to fits of alienatey emotionalism.

    Thank you bh for a provocative observation.

  166. Mike LaRoche says:

    does n/e one smell coconut?

    Nishi, I don’t think you realize just how insulting the term “coconut” is, or how personally some of us take it.

  167. Grass Root says:

    Well, doesn’t that just perfectly sums up my Moral Superiors. Attempting to protect American citizens from murder at the hands of illegal aliens is “stupid and distracty.”

    Please crawl back under your rock, you complete insect.

  168. bh says:

    Shit, that applies to me as well, ‘feets.

    I’ve been listening to too much reggae music lately. Apparently there is one love and we’re supposed to be feeling it.

  169. happyfeet says:

    jah love me brudda

  170. bh says:

    Nishi, I don’t think you realize just how insulting the term “coconut” is, or how personally some of us take it.

    Mike, I think she does. She’s not a particularly pleasant person by all appearances.

  171. Pablo says:

    I smell rancid pussy. I don’t see it, though.

    TrollHammer!

  172. Big D says:

    Happyfeet,

    First let me apologize for my earlier, rude comments. You’ve been here much longer than I, and I was much too quick to land on you. For that I apologize.

    Now, I know you are in marketing and you had mentioned, I think, that you were in CPG. I spent the last two decades in that industry. If you had a brand or brand extension that would capture 70% of the market you would launch that brand, and then pop the champagne. Capturing 70% of any market is damn difficult. If you would focus on the 30% over the 70% Happy, I would suggest a career change. That would indicate a serious misread of the market. Take a good, long look at your reasoning on this.

  173. Mike LaRoche says:

    Mike, I think she does. She’s not a particularly pleasant person by all appearances.

    Yes, you’re probably right, bh. Just thought I’d try appealing to her reasonable side for once, but it’s probably a wasted effort.

  174. Pablo says:

    Griefers don’t have reasonable sides.

  175. B Moe says:

    She doesn’t even understand the difference between Cubans, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. Thinks they are all Latino Brothers United.

    Pretty fucking hilarious if you actually know any Puerto Ricans.

  176. happyfeet says:

    If your reasoning were valid Mr. D then Sarah Palin would be a credible presidential candidate. It’s the logic of pandermonkeys. But these pandermopnkeys are handing out crack vials to the lowest common hatey redstater denominators. This will be devastatingly distracty, is the trap, and Team R is sauntering into it quite blindly I think. But even the Anchoress knows, and that hoochie isn’t one to pass up a good hate.

    It’s different than last time. Vastly. Nerves are raw cause of our doomed little country is suffering grotesque indignities daily. People want to lash out. The dirty socialists are saying okay stupid Team R, lash out at these ones.

  177. happyfeet says:

    *pandermonkeys* that should be

  178. dicentra says:

    I don’t doubt for a second your commitment to individual liberty dicentra. Having said that, I take issue with this statement for reasons which you can probably guess.

    The ship is sinking and we’re arguing about the deck chairs.

    Yeah, I know. I just don’t care anymore.

  179. happyfeet says:

    oh but no apology necessary… these issues, they are contentious

  180. sdferr says:

    The ship done sunk and we’re dog-paddling around arguing about deck chairs.

  181. Big D says:

    Pandering to the masses, HF? That is your career choice, not mine. You want to market something with a 30/70 against? Be my guest. You’re doing it wrong. BTW, the Palin schtick is getting old. We get it. You don’t like her.

  182. happyfeet says:

    redstater ones have gotten very tribal… and the hispanicals are not of the tribe… Nobody is even bothering articulating a vision where the hispanicals are welcomed into the tribe.

    Simple as that. You want to get all nuanced. Fail. We don’t hate them we just don’t want to have to press one and goddamn we speak English here in Alabama. This is what they will hear, all of them. And then they will go in the bedroom and make hot passionate latin love and make more babies than your tribe makes.

    And they will remember.

    One side is playing for all the marbles. The other side is feckless cowardly Team R.

  183. LTC John says:

    B Moe – that could get you beaten in Humboldt Park… one poor law clerk I worked wit proclaimed himself “Mexirican” – his dad was Mexican, his Mom Puerto Rican. He said Mexicans scorned him as Puerto Rican, and the PR folks looked down on him as a Mexican…

  184. LTC John says:

    So if Utah and Texas do the same, hf? Will POTUS denouce them too? And then other states follow…?

  185. happyfeet says:

    You’re confuzzled Big D about what my position is. I don’t want to market anything about immigration… Team R can talk about border security and fiscal responsibility and segue into talk of our little country’s fiscal fail. Simple as that. Talk about entrepreneurism.

    Talk about opportunity.

  186. newrouter says:

    One side is playing for all the marbles.

    one side lost their marbles. big tsunami coming. thank you a student.

  187. Big D says:

    Typical marketing feets. Very typical.

    “Hey, we’ll misread the market, come up with some really wacky ideas then we’ll mask our incompetence with a really snazzy 50 page powerpoint deck. When it fails, we’ll either claim misunderstanding or blame it on lack of sales execution.”

    Yeah, I’ve dealt with you before, feets. Many times.

  188. Big D says:

    OK, I’m getting grouchy again. Good night all.

  189. Bob Reed says:

    Nobody is even bothering articulating a vision where the hispanicals are welcomed into the tribe.

    I’m just not seein’ that happy, I’ve heard a few who are actively doing so.

    “…goddamn we speak English here in Alabama.

    Well, they do. In fact, we speak english in most of the United States. In areas that aren’t adjoing a borer with Mexico, why would should there be any burning need to? Or, why should any who choose to speak english exclusively in states not directly bordering Mexico be ashamed to embrace that choice? Didn’t prior immigrants, legal immigrants by the way, learn english? Or am I missing the part of our history where Italian or German became mandatory for all Americans to speak. What you’re alluding to here specifically is a matter of the utmost importance; the greater notion of assimilation by the immigrant instead of soiety favoringthe needs and wishes of the immigrant. The attitude that we all must accomodate Hispanic immigrants by speaking spanish is to play directly into the hands of the multi-culti-tribalists; concepts I will always reject…

    And full disclosure: I happen to have been blessed with an affinity for language and am conversational in French, German, Italian and Russian, and believe that multi-ligualism is an intellectual benefit to all who choose to be so.

    Oh, and also, be careful tossing about that “tribal” term-paleface! :)

  190. happyfeet says:

    Big D I don’t want to market anything about the immigrationings. Just use it as a pivot point. It’s very different from like baby yogurt.

    Bob – whose voices are hispanics going to hear? The ugliest dumbest ones. They way NPR does with Christians. That’s all. Me I like English very very much it’s my favorite and I hate having to press one.

  191. Mike LaRoche says:

    redstater ones have gotten very tribal… and the hispanicals are not of the tribe…

    Says who? By the way, I was at the huge Tea Party in San Antonio a year ago – the one on April 15, 2009 featuring Glenn Beck, Janine Turner, and Ted Nugent. Didn’t hear a single anti-Hispanic sentiment expressed. NOT ONE. Not by the speakers, not by the attendees.

    And again, the implication I’m seeing is that Hispanics somehow are opposed to enforcing existing laws. That is absolutely false.

  192. happyfeet says:

    Janine Turner is all good things.

  193. happyfeet says:

    Immigration subsumes the Tea Party message very robustly I think. Anti-immigration ones are very loud and screechy even, some of them. And it’s so tired and done done done, the scapegoating during bad economic times. We have been here before.

    I’ll have no part of it.

  194. Bob Reed says:

    You have a point about some of the dumbest voices being the loudest. That’s why we have to make it clear amongst any folks we know that it’s otherwise; make a point of how being against illegal immigration is not the same as being against immigrants.

    Heck, we need immigrants anyway; what with all of the hippies buying into the “population bomb” BS and black folks essentially freexing their number through aggressive aborting of pregnancies, there is a serious demographic incongruency vis-a-vis age. It’s the principle reason medicare and social security are in as bad a shape as they are.

    But that “push the one button” stuff is part of what’s dividing us all. And it’s OK if businesses choose to do so, in order to capitalize on that niche market; but if they feel compelled to do so by government pronouncement or fear of being accused of not having “equality of access” or racism…

    Well, you know how I feel about that.

  195. Mike LaRoche says:

    Had existing immigration laws been enforced rigorously, the scapegoaters would have nothing to scapegoat about. Arizona is presently trying to correct the error of inadequate enforcement. Washington should follow their example.

  196. happyfeet says:

    You are awesome Bob. A Team R of Bobs. Would it were.

    I have much less confidence than you do in Team R’s ability to finesse such an emotionally charged issue.

  197. bh says:

    Heck, we need immigrants anyway; what with all of the hippies buying into the “population bomb” BS and black folks essentially freexing their number through aggressive aborting of pregnancies, there is a serious demographic incongruency vis-a-vis age. It’s the principle reason medicare and social security are in as bad a shape as they are.

    I love hearing you say that, Bob, because it’s absolutely true. We need young people and babies. And that would be my pivot point. That we need the global legal immigration at this point in our history. So forget that anti-immigrant narrative the Dems are selling. We’re proactively selling the legal immigration that’s good for everyone, immigrant and current citizen.

  198. LTC John says:

    Well, what do you think of the optics of the crowds waving Mexican flags and LaRaza signs? Calling anyone who is opposed to full amnesty bigots and racsits? Does that push moderates into Team D? I rather imagine that alienates I’s… hence, the 70/30 split you refuse to address, despite Jeff’s best efforts.

  199. happyfeet says:

    good luck bh I really really mean it…

    me I have pessimisms.

  200. happyfeet says:

    The Mexican crowds are what they are. They’re effing scary is what they are.

  201. Bob Reed says:

    happy,
    Rational folks have to take the initiative to control the argument and not let it go in the wrong direction. Like JeffG says, don’t allow your meaning and intent to be hijacked. I know it’s hard, because I have to defend my postitions and beliefs in argments with proggy-left folks all the time here in NYC-just like I’m sure is the case as in LA. It actually helps refine one’s position as well as rhetorical skills.

    Also though, I pray a lot too; and trust that each day will somehow be better than the last. Pollyanish? Maybe, but, you know, I prefer the term optimism…

  202. Bob Reed says:

    Mike LaRoche, you are 100% correct sir! This problem has been allowed to get too far out of hand…

  203. LTC John says:

    #206 – don’t look at me – I already have two kids, and I am tired :)

  204. sdferr says:

    “Arizona is presently trying to correct the error of inadequate enforcement.”

    About which AllahP notes “Actual AP headline: “Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law” ” and then in turn retorts: “Fortunately for these poor victims of conservo-Nazi persecution, there’s a scrupulously tolerant safe haven nearby. And I hear the mayor’s fantastic.”

    The “scrupulously tolerant safe haven”, we notice, isn’t Mexico or other parts South from whence they came. No, for the sake of being a smartass, he picks out another place in the USA. What gets into people like this?

  205. Mike LaRoche says:

    Any issue that slits 70/30 in favor of the Republicans is a winning issue for them. Fact. Pandering to the the loud, ignorant MEChA/La Raza types will get Team R nowhere. Instead, the brown power racist extremists should be consistently exposed and condemned by Team R.

  206. happyfeet says:

    we will see… the die is cast already… so plan happyfeet is kinda moot.

  207. bh says:

    The problem is ‘feets, I think we’re going to Oh Shit! without getting a handle on the demographic age/entitlement issue. It’s only partly about presently our position to the short term Comp Imm Ref in my mind.

    We’re well and truly fucked without new workers. In ten years, a third of the population will be retired. In ten more years they’ll hit their key years for medical outlays.

    We need young people. Like, game over otherwise. This current issue is basically nothing compared to that.

  208. Bob Reed says:

    We need to be very clear about being pro-immigration, for the reason’s I’ve outlined; but also be just as clear about opposing illegal immigration vigorously.

    And amnesty? As they say in Brooklyn, Fuhgeddabowditt !

    That would be rewarding thise who broke the law, and cheapening the struggle, and minimizing the virtue, of those folks that worked hard, within the system, to immigrate legally and become citizens of the US.

    The argument that needs to be refined razor-sharp is the one supporting immigration limits, based on what the economy can absorb-which, by the way, might provide rhetorical support to lowering taxes, or adopting a flat tax, to stimulate employment and GDP growth. And, the case needs to be made regarding the need for assimilation in such a way that both native-born Americans and immigrants embrace, and that will not be able to be derailed as RAAAAAAAAACIST! by the identity politics obsessed left-wing progressives.

  209. bh says:

    Well, you’re a Colonel, John, so I probably can’t order you to have more children. I might be willing to support a federal program to buy you and the better half a pitcher of Margaritas every weekend though.

  210. happyfeet says:

    bh I hope your voice is heard… Bob’s too.

    But this is going to be a not helpful thing I think. My Hot Air friends are not on y’all’s page at all. They’re busy hating Marco Rubio stupid traitor die die die.

  211. bh says:

    at 216, presently=presenting.

  212. sdferr says:

    “And, the case needs to be made regarding the need for assimilation in such a way that both native-born Americans and immigrants embrace, and that will not be able to be derailed as RAAAAAAAAACIST! by the identity politics obsessed left-wing progressives.”

    Gonna have figure out how to get government out of the business of schooling then Bob. Otherwise, it’s progg propaganda 24-7.

  213. LTC John says:

    #218 – sounds swell, but I think we are done having future workers… heh heh.

  214. LTC John says:

    hf – you need to stay away from the commentariat of Hot Air. Kind of a junior circuit of the Balloon Juice variety sewer.

  215. Bob Reed says:

    You have a point sdferr, but that genie is going to be hard to get back in the bottle.

  216. happyfeet says:

    They are very disheartening, LTC.

    And kinda scary.

  217. sdferr says:

    If it can’t be done, then there won’t be any assimilation under any banner of unity. Simple as that.

  218. Bob Reed says:

    happy,
    You need to take Colonel John’s advice on the HotAir commentariat. Regardless of whether you read them sometimes, don’t take them too seriously.

    And they’re wrong about Rubio, he’s no traitor. He far more conservative that Charlie sun-tan, about the best we could hope for in New York south!

    Some of those same folks would be disparaging Colonel West, if AllahP hadn’t given his approval of him.

    Guys like Rubio, West, as well as Ryan are the best hope for the future of our nation.

  219. Bob Reed says:

    Gentlemen, I have to call it a night. I’ll enjoy reading your thouts in the morning.

    All the best to you.

  220. happyfeet says:

    Rubio rings true I think.

    Have a good night.

  221. LTC John says:

    hf, I gave up on them when I kept having to argue with the “destroy Islam!!!!” folks – “say, what about the Iraqis and Afghans who, literally, bled alongside me in the fight” …”fuk Islam1!1!1″. Ok, I give up…

  222. bh says:

    ‘night, Bob.

    And, yeah, Hot Air threads are where you go to watch hope die.

  223. Mike LaRoche says:

    #211 Bob Reed – Mike LaRoche, you are 100% correct sir! This problem has been allowed to get too far out of hand…

    Thanks, Bob. Like you, I’m all for legal immigration, our country needs immigrants. And the process must be orderly and lawful and applicable to all. Amnesty would simply encourage more illegal activity.

  224. happyfeet says:

    If every State was to pass English Only,
    America will win!!

    But be perpared for all out Liberal Political War!!

    canopfor on April 28, 2010 at 10:32 PM

  225. happyfeet says:

    for reals he said that

  226. motionview says:

    We must stand up against this big lie(show me your papers) or we’re done.

  227. bh says:

    Yep, 1% of my optimism for the future just died. Stop that, please.

  228. bh says:

    #236 was directed at the comment from HA, not motionview.

  229. LTC John says:

    happy, now did I not tell you to stay out of that ditch?

  230. sdferr says:

    For reals? Heck hf, that’s nothin’. We been told right here in this thread that voting Latinos in Fl. are going to leave off Marco Rubio for Charlie Crist. In this lifetime! heh

  231. happyfeet says:

    I have to stop, you’re right.

  232. ThomasD says:

    So far we are hearing all kinds of talk about what the AZ law represents, but little about what it might actually accomplish.

    Practically speaking I doubt the law will have any direct impact on illegals in AZ. Meaning that the actual number of times Arizona law enforcement effects and arrest and subsequent deportation based upon this law will be a proverbial drop in the bucket.

    Where the law would seem to have the most impact, and the very reason that it is drawing so much opposition, is that it represents a game changer. The terms of the debate have been changed from on low and the former gatekeepers know know they have lost the sole ability to dictate the terms of future discussion.

    This law will prove immensely popular if largely symbolic, there is no doubt that it is a harbinger of things to come.

  233. sdferr says:

    I don’t know the illegals in Az. but if they’re at all like the illegals here in S.Fla they got a non-trivial number of members who can’t stay out of the beer and as a result, end up in the hands of the police allatime. What happens then in Az., if as I say, they have this resemblance?

  234. ThomasD says:

    I’ve lived in AZ, and grew up in SW Florida. Still have family in FL and friends in AZ. There are scads of illegals who steer well clear of law enforcement. My father in law is a slumlord in Fort Myers – the central Americans are still there, somewhat diminished with the end of the housing boom, but due to experience from life in the motherland many have an almost innate fear of anyone with a badge. The one real downside of laws like this is that it will drive many of them further into an underground lifestyle (great for FILs pockets, not so great for everyone else…)

    Sure ICE will see a significant rise in frequent fliers, but that’s just a slowly revolving door for the most of them.

  235. Danger says:

    “The Mexican crowds are what they are. They’re effing scary is what they are.”

    Feets,

    It seems to me that is a pretty good “pivot point” that guys like Glenn Beck could exploit.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/03/29/20100329rancher-killed-at-arizona-ranch.html
    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/video_la_raza_member_attacks_town_hall_protester_in_houston/

    The fear of being called RAAAAAAAAACIST! (How’d I do Bob;) is being overtaken by something of much greater concern. I think Americans (not just team R) have had just about enough of the bullying and undeserved criticism.

  236. Danger says:

    “That’s pretty good advice all around if I may be an annoying hall monitor for a moment.”

    bh,

    Some people mock them but where would we be without hall monitors. Chaos that’s where we’d be! It’s not easy maintaining order in the halls, I mean sure ya get out of class early and ya get to wear a cool reflective belt and a badge that the chicks dig but sometimes ya gotta be the bad guy.

    Keep firing ;-)

  237. Slartibartfast says:

    I’ll have no part of it.

    That’s nice, but you don’t have to be all screechy about it.

  238. bh says:

    ya get to wear a cool reflective belt and a badge that the chicks dig

    Wait, I was supposed to be issued cool gear? And here I am trying to establish hall order in a tuxedo t-shirt and a hat that says “Bikini Inspector”.

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