From the Boston Herald:
A Boston sports-radio host yesterday likened former Heisman Trophy winner Tim Tebow’s NFL draft party to a “Nazi rally,” a remark one media observer called an “amazing double standard.”
Fred “Toucher” Toettcher said yesterday on 98.5 The Sports Hub, “It looked like some kind of Nazi rally. . . . So lily-white is what I’m trying to say. Yeah, Stepford Wives.”
Station spokesman Cha-Chi Loprete said the station “received no inquiries regarding” the morning drive-time show and declined further comment. Efforts to reach Toettcher for comment were unsuccessful.
Dan Gainor, vice president for business and culture for the Media Reseach Center, a Washington, D.C.-based media watchdog group, said it’s “stunning” that Toettcher didn’t lose his job.
“It’s an amazing double standard,” Gainor said. “The left has decided to hate Tim Tebow for nothing more than the fact that he’s a good guy who tries to live an ethical and religious life.”
Conservatives have been repeatedly accused of racism for opposing President Obama’s initiatives, while conservative talk show hosts often face demands that they apologize or be fired for tasteless remarks.
[…]
Tebow, who played for the University of Florida Gators and was drafted Thursday by the Denver Broncos, has been mocked for his strong Christian faith and for appearing with his mother in a controversial pro-life Super Bowl ad.
Locally, one of the Denver sports radio stations — in their first opportunity to interview Tebow — opened the questioning by asking the Broncos’ new QB about “his relationship to James Dobson” (he has none), then followed up by asking him if he would essentially try to convert the locker room by rubbing Jesus in teammates’ faces.
— Which is strange, because I can’t for a second think that had the Broncos obtained wide receivers Muhsin Muhammad (born Melvin Campbell) or Mohamed Massaquoi, the first question asked of them would be “how, as a Muslim, will you react to a pigskin being hurled at you? (not, we hope, with a suicide bombing…”), or “given your faith, is it fair to assume that at some point during the game on Sundays, you’ll be forced to pull out one of them little rug thingies and start bowing to the east?”
In fact, the Broncos already have several players of faith, including future Hall of Fame safety Brian Dawkins. Who to my knowledge was never grilled about his faith at all by the same white sports radio guys who find their questioning of Tebow so very edgy.
Wonder why that might be?
The sneering hostility to openly religious people (and openly religious white people at that) whose sole social transgression seems to be that they publicly exist, I find very worrisome. I mean, if someone is able to use faith as the motivating principle guiding them to live a good life, why should I care? Why should anyone care?
And yet, here we have an example of a family being likened to those who shoveled Jews, gypsies, and gays into ovens.
Although on the glass-half-full side, I guess being compared to a house full of Nazis is better than being called a gaggle of cumsluts. So they’ve got that going for them…
Soon as they hear of this, assuming they do, I’d expect Tebow’s teammates at Florida, guys like Spikes and Percy Harvin, to set this asshole sport-stalker straight. There’s no friend like a real friend to know what’s what.
A Boston host complaining about “Lilly White”? I take it he has not been to those suburbs around Boston. Boston has to be the most seggreated racist towns in the nation.
I can’t for a second think that had the Broncos obtained wide receivers Muhsin Muhammad (born Melvin Campbell) or Mohamed Massaquoi, the first question asked of them would be “how, as a Muslim, will you react to a pigskin being hurled at you?
Well, there’s this thing that being hostile to Tebow isn’t going to get you threats that you are going to end up like Theo Van Gogh.
Being anti-Christian is safe-bigotry.
I guess nigh is now
*
Black folks get a pass on their Xitanity in liberal land. They could have voted 3 or 4 to 1 for Prop 8 (instead of merely 2 to 1) in California and it still would have been those homophobe dirty fucking Mormons that did in gay marriage in the Golden State. Guess it’s because they are “primitive” that there is a dispensation……..
“…Lilly White?”
Yep, sure ‘nough, Bob’s in there.
But then, so’s Madeline Manning Mims, Mike Singletary, Tony Dungy, and J.C. Watts among others.
There are some large, mean guys in the NFL who take that whole religious thing kind of seriously. I suggest the craven, jock-sniffing sportscasters watch out. But they’re pretty used to humiliating themselves in front of athletes.
Toettcher is just a bigoted little worm, but because his bigotry mirrors the commentariat on the MSM, this will not likely be much-remarked.
reapings and sowings
For fuck’s sake.
Godwin’s Law is now applicable to the Main Stream Media™.
Little Nazi had it coming, celebrating the fact that his mother decided not to jam scissors into his skull in utero…
I’m getting out of here. Before I fucking flip.
hf
I see you’re doing your dance to add to the hateyness
That’s not what I said Mr. Jeff. What I mean is if people are going to be careless of the esteem in which their religion is held, this sort of thing is bound to happen.
I know this is true because looky there… it’s happened.
Sneering hostility to openly religious people is not the default setting.
Too bad the Cardinals didn’t draft Tebow.
Oh (palm-on-face-slap) CRAP.
And if there is no restraint I am going to have to go all TTP. Because the Host of this Site has (in my interpretation of the intent he has transmitted) put down the glove to a commenter.
Sneering hostility to openly religious people is not the default setting
Sure it is, when the religious person forgets their place and actually practices it.
Too Jewish, too Christian — the elites can’t stand it. Really, who do those kosher-keepers and mackeral-snappers and biblethumpers think they are!! REally, such shameful beliefs need to be kept in the closet at home. SHUT UP and stop making US UNCOMFORTABLE!!
ZOMG!!1! The who do these people think they are?
WTF does that even mean?
More Buckley.
“Anyone who has read George M. Marsden’s book, The Soul of the American University (1994), knows that this departure from orthodoxy institutionally and operationally took place long before Buckley arrived at Yale in 1946. Marsden dates this transformation at Yale as having taken place no later than 1880.”
happyfeet- in an earlier thread, in the upper 100’s of that thread, I commented that both the communicator and the audience have a responsibility to ensure that the communication is transmitted and received with the communicator’s intent received.
IIRC, I also expressed that your communications may not be received in the manner you want to transmit your intent. Style and form should be taken into account before the communicator tries to communicate his intent, and correction applied as needed.
You know how people that comment here have received your communications. If their interpretation of the intent you have transmitted to them is incorrect, then you have the responsibility to clarify. If you do not, then the audience is well within its rights to say your intent is what they understood when they recieved your communication.*
*This applies to an honest communicator and audience – dishonest communicators and audiences are something else. And I think our host and the bulk of the regular commentators here ae honest.
WTF does that even mean?
In the 1930’s it was “The Jews asked for it.”
And yes, as a lawyer communicating my intent is very important. And yes, how I communicate as a lawyer is based on a professional formal style. And yes, that style bleeds into – influences – how I communicate outside of my profession.
It is restrictive, I admit, but it also provides a universal fulcrum from which I can be set and what I say and do weighed – or measured.
(Did you see what I just did here?)
Absolutely — as I’ve said at least once on this site somewhere (possibly the same thread) true communication is a two-way process. And that’s why-for my #19, because there really aren’t many ways to interpret what hf said there, that don’t make him look kinda worse.
The people being sneered at are individuals.
Me, I wouldn’t be making excuses for those who do it when the people they aim their bigotry at haven’t done anything but been good citizens. But that’s just me, and I’m kind of unhip that way.
I know, because Bill Maher took me off his “people I’d like to hang out with when I bash the stupid Christians” party list.
Jeez. I just mean public relations is key, and situating your religious views among fritos and beer ads maybe wasn’t a great idea.
“if people are going to be careless of the esteem in which their religion is held, this sort of thing is bound to happen.”
This is, of course, true.
Jesus got all careless and they crucified him.
Now, who should we esteem, Jesus, or the crucifiers?
“Sneering hostility to openly religious people is not the default setting.”
It is among reactionary leftists.
HF, public relations is key to religion?
Jesus got sneered at by the Pharisees for hanging out in the public houses with the sinners.
Yep, they crucified him.
situating your religious views among fritos and beer ads maybe wasn’t a great idea.
Shorter: SHUT UP!
Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 2:54 pm #
Jeez. I just mean public relations is key, and situating your religious views among fritos and beer ads maybe wasn’t a great idea.
Yeah, KNOW YOUR PLACE! Don’t “come out” into public as a religious person, or you’ll GET WHAT’S COMING TO YOU!
Seriously, Happs, off in the weeds.
Sneering hostility to openly religious people is not the default setting.
I guess someone has never actually read nishi’s comments here. Too funny.
To hear Tebow himself actually explain it, he just thought it was a good story.
I guess he didn’t really think it through. How hostile he was being to those who would feel a whole lot better about themselves had he just been sucked out of the womb all those years ago, I mean.
Very selfish of him.
Nobody is under any onus to like or respect the Tebow lad. He grabbed the white hot spotlight of Focus on the Family fame and he got burned. And now a remark has been hurled.
Nobody was hurling remarks when he was just the nice kid with bible on his face.
Co-branding decisions are important.
Happyfeet’s Burners bear no responsibility for the burning they do.
1st round pick QB to the NFL.
Wish I could get burned like that.
I wouldn’t even be bothered by bigots sneering.
Scan that sentence. Tebow precipitated this. He attacked. And the response was passive, to be expected, even: “a remark has been hurled.
Bullshit. The guy told his story. It wasn’t a story about rounding people up, putting them into cattle cars, and sending them off to be gassed to death or starved to death or used as human guinnea pigs. The real attack was the remark hurled at him, not his telling his story for a commercial that you are free to ignore.
Yes they were. You’re a late adopting hater.
Happyfeet / Nishi 2012: Because Not Just Anybody is fit to Live!
1st round pick QB to the NFL.
it’s good for America
I got the hurling from your title, Jeff.
Jeez. ‘feets has public relations? Who knew !?!?
So? How in the hell is this kid responsible for what someone else’s marketing has to say about him?
READER POLL!
Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 3:13 pm #
I got the hurling from your title, Jeff.
TWEEEE! Subject and context change, irrelevant point, penalty 5 yards, still first down! TWEEEE!
Again, so? Regardless of the verb, the fact is he’s been attacked for years because of his open faith. That the commercial was your trigger makes you a late adopter to the hate, is all I was saying.
Weird, for a guy who doesn’t even have a TV to worry about what commercials come on.
reaping and sowing.
The sneering hostility to openly religious people
wrong, wrong, wrong……let me fix that for you jeff,…….sneering hostility to WHITE ostentatiosly pious conservative christians, teatards, and christofascists like Palin and Demint.
you keep trying to aggregate christians into a single group….that is a lie.
liberal christians don’t prance and bray in the public square, try to usurp our secular republic to make a theocracy, or try to legislate sexual morality and sexual orientation.
A lot of african american football players are christians……no one sneers at them.
Well I just feel awful for him. That radio guy should be punished. People hurling remarks like that are not America.
hf
Seriously, dude, look into the origins of Euro antisemitism and how it manifested itself. Jews were accused of being too damned “clannish” and “superior acting” and their beliefs were never “sincere” just acts of moneygrubbers. Conspiracies about Jews abounded and if harm came to a Jew it was because of the perceptions of what the Jew did, regardless of reality.
You’re holding Tebow (and other Christians) to the same standard. YOU are uncomfortable with them so if bad stuff happens, OH WELL, it’s not like the little white Nazi (heh) didn’t deserve it.
It is so reminiscent of the hate directed at Trig Palin because he was “allowed” to be born. STOP MAKING ME UNCOMFORTABLE FOR MY DECISIONS!!!!
Oh, look, a drooling idiot terror-excusing eugenicist has shown up to call other people fascists. How *precious*.
iberal christians don’t prance and bray in the public square
Yes they do. But their prancing is for “social justice”. They want government to enforce an individuals moral obligation and make their job easier.
Can’t have those nasty individual-responsibility Xtianists queer the deal.
‘feets, is there any one issue or concept in which you, personally, truly and strongly believe, that you give would give a flying duckfuck where on some hateful moon-struck guttersnipe’s bell curve of esteem it would place would matter, much?
#34 happyfeet: You are branding yourself here as an anti-Christian bigot. That may not be the intent you want to transmit, but that is the intent honest receivers of your communications are receiving.
Now – the ball is in your court. Can you transmit your intent in a manner and with context that will transmit your intent so that an honest audience can receive that intent?
(And yes – as a very good attorney told me – ‘there is no good writing; only good re-writing’. And I have seen senior attorneys’ 17th draft of a brief. Communicating intent is very difficult, but a very worthwhile effort.)*
*And this comment was written, and then re-written four times. Now I will hit the ‘Say It!’ button.
And there still should be mistakes.
well yeah, serr8d… I want fiscal responsibility to be well thought-of, but it’s not, and that concerns me, and individual liberty, and secular governance… these are all issues I like that I care if other people like.
A qwuestion for the fascist twat:
Why do you want to force your religion on everyone?
This cartoon bitch is my kind of crazy!
Mikey you’re being a lot like the dirty socialists what reflexively label people racists.
In response to #51:
But those mistakes should be unintentional mistakes. I had time to consider what I typed into the comment #51. Like this comment, I am trying to transmit my intent in a manner that my (honest) audience can receive that intent.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 3:33 pm #
Mikey you’re being a lot like the dirty socialists what reflexively label people racists.
When you think you said “dog” and EVERYONE ELSE hears “cat,” you may just have said “cat.”
Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 3:33
Clumsy duck.
Why are liberals so bigoted and illiberal?
I think nishi has a good point about how you can’t aggregate Christians.
Sneering hostility to openly religious people is not the default setting.
Bullsplat. I’ve endured sneering hostility towards my faith from day one. It’s kosher to make fun of Mormons in Utah, for crying out loud. There’s a yearly festival in SLC whose sole purpose is to mock Mormons.
Maybe you should take up telling blacks that there’s no racism or tell gays that there’s no bigotry against them, either.
#55 happyfeet:
No, I am not what you accuse me of. I am a professional user of words, and I belong to a profession that uses words to transmit – communicate – intent. There are times when I make the words dance for the sheer fun of watching words do that dance (see a P.G. Wodehouse novel to observe an intricate dance of words). But I am not playing with words now. I am serious as a heart-attack right now; and I was in that prior thread. When I type about the law (my profession) and the intent of language – at that time I. Am. Dead. Serious.
I want fiscal responsibility to be well thought-of, but it’s not
That explains the low turnout at the tea parties.
The griefer heaped insults and non-sequiturs into a comment and the part you notice is the simple truism? Do you notice that the griefer makes a habit of aggregating separate entities all the fucking time?
You were just saying something about co-branding, ‘feets?
No, ‘feets, there’s no real reflex involved in reading your words for the last 6 months or more.
I likes the simple truisms, yes.
“The sneering hostility to openly religious people wrong, wrong, wrong……let me fix that for you jeff,…….sneering hostility to WHITE ostentatiosly pious conservative christians, teatards, and christofascists like Palin and Demint.”
I think I must fall into the christofascist identity. At least no on sneers at me. Not to my face anyway. Not twice…
these are all issues I like that I care if other people like
See, this is why I ask you who the skirt is. It sounds for all the world like you’re worried about how you are perceived by someone who thinks poorly of social cons, and for that reason also rejects conservatism hook, line, and sinker.
Amazing how you can’t see that.
Tim Tebow is a genuine person. His religion has helped shaped him into a helluva guy, and he’d never hurt anybody. Outside of the fact he was a Gator and didn’t play for Georgia so he sucks for that, he’s a much better person than every single asshole flinging insults at him.
I gotta say, he’s gotta a whole lot better perspective on life than a lot of too cute for their britches dickheads, and he’s gonna accomplish a whole helluva lot outside of football that this atheist is going to appreciate. Interpret that as one will.
‘feets, it may not be the default setting, but it is most certainly your default setting, and Nishi’s, and every committed Leftist I’ve ever met in 49 years.
dicentra…..you are are a mormon….if you don’t want ppl to sneer at you for petes sakes don’t tell them.
And ‘feets, you also might want to consider two thing:
(1) Classical Liberalism arose within the context of Judeo-Christianity and is perfectly compatible with it.
(2) Leftism is fundamentally incompatible with both Classical Liberalism and Judeo-Christianity.
Why? Because Leftism holds that human society is perfectible through the use of human genius. Both Judeo-Christianity and Classical Liberalism hold that it is not.
I’m not going to put on an anti-Christan party dress and whack the Christian pinata for you ones.
You’re Christians. You live for that shit. But find someone else to persecute you.
‘feets, religious peoples, mostly, have such strong feelings about their beliefs that they are actually joyous, and want to share ’em with others. No matter how hateful people are towards them; they could care less what’s thrown their way. Usually. But not sharing those deeply-held beliefs isn’t a given option.
Since most people aren’t dirty-socialist-leftist-statist haters of Godbotherers (notice how they tend to lump together, naturally?) they just smile and allow safe passage. It’s only those who aren’t so tolerant that are malevolent, and outspoken. Again, usually the Leftwards sorts are so inclined. You seem to fit in well with that group, I note, sadly enough.
(And who is this God of Fiscal Responsibility of whom you worship? You’ve a mountaintop I can visit ?)
dicentra…..you are are a mormon….if you don’t want ppl to sneer at you for petes sakes don’t tell them.
Because people are fairly obliged to mock me for my religion. THEY CAN’T HELP THEMSELVES!
Not telling people who and what I am to avoid mockery is an act of cowardice; accepting mockery from someone like you is a badge of honor.
But find someone else to persecute you.
Someone else besides you? How can I, if you keep dishing it out at every opportunity?
anti-*Christian* party dress I mean
dicentra…..you are are a mormon….if you don’t want ppl to sneer at you for petes sakes don’t tell them.
Happyfeet was saying something about default settings?
The dress, it wouldn’t be out of the closet if you hadn’t reached for it.
That pretty much seals the deal as far as I am concerned. No more need be said, really.
“Comment by Nishi the Kingslayer on 4/24 @ 3:49 pm #”
Dear fascist twat,
Why do you want to force your religion on everyone?
Sincerly,
Lazarus
“accepting mockery from someone like you is a badge of honor.”
Good for you, di.
Well said.
These threads to be far more aggravating than enlightening. Time to enjoy some Saturday. Later.
ok so Christians in aggregate want to be utterly free of ridicule as they work to snatch away abortion rights and go on their weirdly intense anti-gay marriage pogroms and scheme about how to get creationisms in schools.
Lotsa luck with that.
I don’t think you are anti-Christian happyfeet. But you are intolerant of practicing Christians…
BTW, I have been to many gatherings where the progressives think they’re the only ones there, and mocking religion is one of their favorite things to to. This was the case even when the hosts of the fricking party were both church-going Catholics. I’m pretty sure what I heard was out of their earshot, but it wasn’t out of mine.
dicentra…..you are are a mormon….if you don’t want ppl to sneer at you for petes sakes don’t tell them.
Dicentra … SHUT UP STAY IN THE CLOSET HOW DARE YOU MAKE OTHERS SNEER AT YOU!!1!!!
Kate Nishi Mengele, you really are an indecent little cunt.
This is why you are an increasingly white Christian party, you know.
“Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 3:58 pm #
ok so Christians in aggregate want to be utterly free of ridicule as they work to snatch away abortion rights and go on their weirdly intense anti-gay marriage pogroms and scheme about how to get creationisms in schools”
So, Christians aren’t allowed to have a say in the political process?
And hf, that was a purely objective question.
Christians in aggregate want to be utterly free of ridicule as they work to snatch away abortion rights and go on their weirdly intense anti-gay marriage pogroms and scheme about how to get creationisms in schools.
Wow. Hanna Barbera would be proud!
Dude…stop trying to pretend there is only one kind of christian….ppl mostly hate on white christians…the evangelikkal-missionary-push-it-in-everones-face christans.
and……just use DADT.
haw haw
quit prancing and braying in the public square and put it back in your pants and ppl won’t hate yah.
Um, no I dont know. Please, details!
Ridiculing religion and calling people Nazis for being religious is the same thing. Referencing the flying spaghetti monster and Hitler is the same thing. Got it.
So, Christians aren’t allowed to have a say in the political process?
Of course NOT, Laz! What, you think the First Amendment is to be taken seriously?
Dude.
Grieferfeet and Nishi, sitting in a tree….
Accepting ridicule means you should just let people call you a Nazi and not say a fucking thing about it. Got it.
So, Christians aren’t allowed to have a say in the political process?
sure they do LL….but their say is their say as citizens…not as christians…..separation of church and state, righto?
yes darleen!!!
dicentra should just use DADT!!
its purrfect.
lawl.
“…he’d never hurt anybody…”
That Tennessee fella Eric Berry might could have a difference of opinion on that question.
Leftism is fundamentally incompatible with both Classical Liberalism and Judeo-Christianity.
Why? Because Leftism holds that human society is perfectible through the use of human genius. Both Judeo-Christianity and Classical Liberalism hold that it is not.
That and Leftism is jealous of anything that gets in the way of Nannystate AS God.
actually dicentra Timmah Tebow is allied with an organization what did a number on Romney solely for his mormonism and not cause of his stupid political floppy flips and confusions.
but their say is their say as citizens…not as christians
Kate Mengele doesn’t want a separation of church/state, she wants a separation of citizen/religion.
THE ONLY GOOD CHRISTIAN IS THE NON-EXISTANT ONE!
Nishi the simpering utero-phobe bigotted twat
Kate Mengele doesn’t want a separation of church/state, she wants a separation of citizen/religion.
nishi is herself religious, Darleen. You’re not making any sense.
Nishi is happily playing as ‘Shams’, for to attract al-Aloof Muslim boyfriend(s).
Wait until they force-slap a burkha on her. Got Eywa, Nishi? Avatar is playing somewhere, run along!
I wonder what that radio clown said when they showed the family room of a black player that had been drafted. Compare and contrast the responses.
Fuck you, nishit. You are an oozing rectal fistula on the asscheek of humanity.
nishi is herself religious
I know. As with the splodeydope jihadists, you can judge a religion by the behavior of its practioners.
Nishi is a cunt, Islam needs to be reformed.
here is a happy song from our hindu friends
link
merciful god with the nishi is a cunt Islam needs to be reformed, hater
yawn hf, lust after nishi, reap the consequences
heh
or should i say
lulz
lawl
Politically, I want candidates that are interested in promoting fiscal responsibility and limited government and that’s it. We don’t have room for much else right now, since disaster looms and must be dealt with, if it can be.
This post is not about that. This post is about a gathering of Christians being likened to a Nazi rally. That is beyond the pale. It’s one thing to have the “flying spaghetti monster” stuff thrown around because I find it juvenile and stupid and usually being said by self-satisfied tools. I can live with that stuff because it’s spoken from ignorance. However, I will not be silent when someone goes Godwin on Christianity like that. I will not shut up. If I heard that anywhere I doubt I would let it pass unless I knew for sure I would be killed for speaking up.
There has to be line somewhere.
Timmah. Hmm, college educated retard? Class, nothing but class there.
ok so Christians in aggregate want to be utterly free of ridicule
That was never in the contract, feets. Never in the list of expectations.
Matthew 5:
10 Blessed are they which areapersecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
2 Timothy 3:
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
John 15
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
Luke 6
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
Is that enough?
Look, ‘feets. This blog is full of people who aren’t in the least bit interested in religion, including Our Host. But they also don’t hate those who are. And those of us who are religious are likewise not interested in blasting them for being non-religious. Or can you point to all those occasions where we told y’all to convert so you won’t go to hell?
Your reaction to religious people is to persecute instead of saying “live and let live.” What does that say about you? In whose company does that put you? In the company of those who shouted “Barrabas! Barrabas!” or those who knew about that Jesus dude but didn’t give a rip one way or the other?
It’s not so much that we are persecuted; it’s that you, whom we thought to be our friend, is doing it, right here in our faces.
Capishe?
A college educated Family, Youth, and Community Science major, donald.
Timmah Tebow is allied with an organization what did a number on Romney solely for his mormonism
I know. Most evangelical Christians hate Mormons with a white-hot loathing (cf Huckabee). I’m used to it.
That doesn’t mean I have to hate them back. They hate me because they believe lies. What would my excuse be?
“…..separation of church and state, righto?”
Where is that in the Constitution?
Thank you, dicentra.
By the way, answer the question:
Why do you want to force your religion on everyone, you fascist twat?
I capishe dicentra jeez I didn’t mean to make you work on a Saturday.
dicentra wraps up nicely.
118 was for 114.
Where is that in the Constitution?
its not.
neither is freeing the slaves.
i guess you wanna go back to the good old days on that too….
no wonder african americans wont come near you.
:)
Nishtwat is just letting her inner Osama out.
There’s levels of cutting there. Why, ‘feets? Can’t you accept that others are strongly principled, and deserve not to be toyed with?
This is why you are an increasingly white Christian party,
Increasingly? The data says otherwise.
The Tea Partiers are only 4% whiter than the general pop. So…
dicentra should just use DADT!!
That would be against my religion to do so. That you think it’s a good solution only shows how in thrall you are to public opinion.
Does it hurt to be that shallow?
separation of church and state, righto?
Congress shall make no law…
Yup, that’s the Founders telling me to STFU right there!
ppl mostly hate on white christians
They’re singled out for hatred on account of their race? Sounds like racism to me!
Freeing the slaves is in the 13th Amendment, you moron.
Nishi would be shat upon by the Na’vi.
It’s gonna make him a great high school football coach Mr. Feet. Or a great insurance salesman. But he’s done it, he’s worked his ass off for his entire life.
Understand, I’m saying this about a Gator. I hate the fucking Gators.
I leave you ones to your outrage manufacturings.
The First Amendment disallows the formation of a Federally-sponsored Church. Some states had state-supported Churches for a while, I’m not sure when that stopped. Otherwise, this idea of “separation of Church and State” was something invented by the Supreme Court. I don’t know the arguments behind that idea, but I doubt it was unanimous.
its not.
neither is freeing the slaves.
i guess you wanna go back to the good old days on that too….
no wonder african americans wont come near you
Guess you never read the thirteenth amendment. Your stupid is showing.
Maybe you’d like to address why those black folks voted 2 to 1 against letting gays get married in California. Wait that would fuck up your narrative.
happyfeet was saying something about truisms?
Thomas Jefferson would hurl on you, nishtard.
a secular government is still the ideal we all share I think
Again….I don’t hate people who are “interested” in religion.
I think people that want to push their religion on people that aren’t in interested in religion are creepers and fascists.
Just put it back in your pants….erm…..churches and we will deal just fine.
There’s a universal Truth if I ever saw one.
I didn’t mean to make you work on a Saturday.
My Sabbath is tomorrow.
I’ll be out pulling weeds in a minit.
Most evangelical Christians hate Mormons with a white-hot loathing (cf Huckabee). I’m used to it.
di
I wonder if its just a regional thing. The evangelicals I know here in CA don’t seem to be that hostile to Mormons.
They’d rather roll their eyes at Jehovah’s Witnesses.
DADT.
lawl.
I think people that want to push their religion on people that aren’t in interested in religion are creepers and fascists.
Shorter Kate: That First Amendment? Fuck it and shut UP!
Nishi the fake Muslim reveals her true atheism.
“Comment by Nishi the Kingslayer on 4/24 @ 4:21 pm #
Where is that in the Constitution?
its not.”
Then shut the fuck up about it, you fascist twat.
“neither is freeing the slaves.
i guess you wanna go back to the good old days on that too….”
My ancestors fought to free the slaves. You want to bring the institution back.
There is a certain moral difference in ourt two stances.
So, yeah fuck you, you fascist twat.
“no wonder african americans wont come near you.”
If you want, I’ll give you my bosses phone number and you can check with him if “african americans wont come near you”
So fuck you up the ass with a rusty pipe, you fascist twat.
Nishi, if someone drops trou around you you’d better make a video; it’s a temporary thing, until sanity returns in the morning.
Nishi is a NAZI.
lawl.
;)
why those black folks voted 2 to 1 against letting gays get married in California
lol, irrelevent. they voted 97% for obama.
they still will nevah vote for your candidate, hahahaha.
because you are raaaaaaaacisssssssts!
Katie Mengele
If someone is sharing their religion, you don’t have to listen. Just walk away from the kaffir and stop fantasizing about decapitating them.
‘feets, was our country at any time in its history a theocracy?
And yet there were nativity scenes on city land and the Ten Commandments in courthouses and school prayer and everyone in the country was against gay marriage (including the gays).
Nobody wants to set up a theocracy. Christianity doesn’t have the equivalent of shari’a.
And nobody is asking the gubmint to be anything but secular. What, you think Mormons would get the sweet end of a deal like that? Jews? Anyone?
Na’
vziIt is to laffs~!
“Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 4:25 pm #
a secular government is still the ideal we all share I think”
WE have one.
We also have a profoundly religious country.
right, di – I said I thought we all agreed about that I thought.
And the fascist twat still hasn’t ansered my question:
Why do you want to force your reliogion on everyone else?
I wonder if its just a regional thing. The evangelicals I know here in CA don’t seem to be that hostile to Mormons.
Mostly the Bible Belt. I mentioned evangelical hostility to Mormons to an Arizona evangelical and she was likewise a bit astonished.
I guess it’s hard to separate out the nice ones from the hostile ones when you’re used to having to run a gauntlet of pamphleteers outside Temple Square, handing you leaflets full of lies and exaggerations. And reading “MORMONS AREN’T CHRISTIANS” on the blogs and hearing it on the radio stations from time to time.
And seeing it in the polls.
I think mormons are christians, if it helps.
Really happyfeet, I think all this unpleasantness, and future unpleasentness IYKWIM, could go away if you would just join us. Life is happy! Our way is joyous! Come, repent! Be saved!!
I’m KIDDING! Jeez, quite looking all scared…haha.
Shorter Kate: That First Amendment? Fuck it and shut UP!
make me.
:)
jeff said ….”The sneering hostility to openly religious people” but…..that is just actually just sneering hostility to white CONSERVATIVE christians.
no one sneers at black christians, no one sneers at white LIBERAL christians.
i know its difficult, but think REAL hard about why that is.
the truth will set you free.
corrected.
And reading “MORMONS AREN’T CHRISTIANS”
My girls are baptised Catholics, went to CCD and had their first communions. I remember once a couple of them were upset because at a soccer game another kid said Catholics weren’t Christian.
Yep, the family was new to CA from the Bible Belt.
I told them it wasn’t important what that kid believed, only what THEY knew was true.
make me
do you have some reading comp problems, Kate? lulz
You are all about telling others to shut up, fascist.
no one sneers at black christians, no one sneers at white LIBERAL christians.
i know its difficult, but think REAL hard about why that is.
the truth will set you free.
Somewhere an asylum is missing an inmate.
Con: CCD boys used to steal things from our desks. Pro: A CCD girl corrected my English homework once in awhile with smiley faces. I started leaving her candy. Verdict: CCD boys are the devil and CCD girls are good at English.
(Of course I’m still reading this thread.)
Darleen she’s pretty bang on about the sneerings. Nobody sneers at us Lutherans that I know of. There haven’t been any Lutheran superbowl commercials yet though. We would have to save up I bet.
but think REAL hard about why that is
Aaaand again…
If people are not being persecuted, its because their opponents aren’t inclined to persecute.
Or is persecution, ridicule, and bile something that’s always earned?
“no one sneers at white LIBERAL christians.”
I do.
They’re Christians of convenience.
I think mormons are christians, if it helps.
So do Muslims, who also think that American atheists are Christians.
If it helps.
Excuse me.
Marxist “Christians”.
Nobody sneers at the Amish. But they had their own super cool movie.
Nobody sneers at the Amish.
Because they keep to themselves, hidden until we want to look at them. Then the Left treats them like charming little pets.
They don’t vote. They don’t express themselves in the political sphere. If they did, they’d be ridiculed to high heaven.
So to speak.
Muslims paint with a broad brush sometimes.
“Comment by happyfeet on 4/24 @ 4:49 pm #
Nobody sneers at the Amish”
I know I would not want to be victim of a clop-by shooting.
“Muslims paint with a broad brush sometimes.”
And sometimes they used suicide bombers to paint the landscape.
Hey, twat, you gonna answer my question?
Oh, but Allahahaha doesn’t take kindly to joining up then abandoning the Islamic fold. There might be stonings.
the truth will set you free.
You misspelled “work.”
holy hurling hosts Baman
Nobody sneers at the Amish
Sneer? No … but the government likes to harass ’em over cows.
government is bad
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.”
-Patrick Henry
Not worth unpacking, noogie.
I think there’s an important distinction to be made. I have a rather low opinion of Mormonism from a theological standpoint (which I’m not here to argue), but every Mormon person I have personally known has been a model citizen. Heck, nearly every Mormon I know of is. I sure won’t hate on Mormons because of Dingy Harry Reid.
More importantly, I find nothing inherent in Mormon theology that conflicts with my ideal of sound governance. Even the part where you let a condemned man choose to die by firing squad if he likes.
In blog comments, too?
I said noogie out loud just to see what it sounded like.
The turtles look concerned.
#172: Good one, Mike. It’s going to zoom over Nishbot’s head at about Mach 5, but some of us got it.
“I think people that want to push their religion on people that aren’t in interested in religion are creepers and fascists.”
Then why do you want to impose your religion on everyone else, twat?
That makes you a fascist, then, right, twat?
Fascist from two directions, twat.
You want to impose your religion on everyone, except for the retards you want to murder.
Right, twat?
And this in the same thread as noogie referencing truth and its ability to free. Which in the context of this topic and thread, wow.
#172: Good one, Mike. It’s going to zoom over Nishbot’s head at about Mach 5, but some of us got it.
Thanks, SBP!
That’s how the post reads.
Nishi’s response has been to instruct me that the sneering hostility is directed at openly religious WHITE Christians.
I guess I should have capitalized instead of italicized?
Freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom from religion. Why certain people can’t get beyond the fact that others think differently than they do I can’t quite get my head around. Nor do I get how this justifies likening a draft party to a Nazi rally.
Nishi is the kind of person who enjoys a good wilding, and would have thrown rocks at the Jews passing by in cattle cars. Just to fit in.
“Nishi is the kind of person who enjoys a good wilding, and would have thrown rocks at the Jews passing by in cattle cars.”
Hell, Jeff, she’d a been tossing the Zyklon B crystals.
B-Dawk the Ball Hawk lurves him some Jesus. And he’ll tell you so. Nuttin wrong wit it.
I do? Where? Hell, I didn’t even mention Christians.
But Brian Dawkins is a black Christian, and he shares his faith openly. He isn’t subjected to ridiculous questions about James Dobson or proselytizing during a football news conference.
Ask yourself why THAT is, while you’re busy disentangling the good Christians from the yucky kind.
dirty xtianist…lol
di…mormon is pancakes
waffles?who knew…lulz
bacons?muslims?jeffy?
i loves my pet happyfeet…lol
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious…lawlz…
Get away from me, bitch!
Meh….
@191
i think noshi brings up a very good point about the bacons what are maybe waffles.
Nishi is afraid black Christians will jack her up if she speaks her mind.
The nishfish needs clutch repair; there’s clearly no linkage between its typing fingers and anything remotely resembling a brain.
And happyfeet’s clutch has been making alarming noises for quite some time. It may already be gone.
why can’t i be empress of the world so i can kill you sumbitches…nyuk…lulz….spitoooooeeee
RIP Reggie White, “The Minister of Defense”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsSqIytX4U
reggie white?
nuf said…lulzez…
minister?
oppressor…jeffy can’t you see?
bleah…fish don’t need wrenches…lol
The First Amendment isn’t just about freedom of religion, it’s about freedom of conscience, hence the protection of peaceable assembly and the press and speech.
It means that the gubmint can’t say Thing One about your beliefs one way or the other. However, the citizens get to say as many things as they want about anything, including the gubmint.
Nishi thinks I should keep my light under a bushel so she isn’t forced to h8 me so much.
And then turns around and accuses me and my kind of being h8rs.
Typical. Utterly typical.
One thing, ‘feets:
If the filthy socialist gubmint decides in the next three years that social cons are just too damn dangerous to have around, and it begins to take action against us (incrementally, of course), will you stand astride history and yell STOP or will you shake your head and mutter that we had it coming?
Yet another thread where you all forgot to proselytize me.
Probably a good call. I normally have a headache on Sunday morning. Speaking of which…
“Repent, Harlequin!” Said the Ticktockman
‘feets bugs the hell out of me on this topic, di, but I feel pretty confident that in that scenario he’d be on the right side.
I think part of the disconnect is that hf is very, very much about marketing/branding/image.
Thanks, Laz. I was starting to feel unwanted.
Phils – Dbacks are on………
Jason Wirth has a rocket launcher for an arm.
I would stand with my christian friends and give them a hard time about the abortings and the gay marriagings and together we will taste dirty socialist blood.
There’s a song about that, I recall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cru2ld06-A&feature=fvst
As I’ve tried to tell him before, marketing ≠ reality, not even when marketing works.
I hope you’re right, bh.
But feets’ comments bespeak more than just concern about image. His liberal use of vulgar epithets means that he’s also got some visceral h8 going on toward religion, and that kind of thing isn’t readily cast aside when standing up for someone means being persecuted right along with them.
And by the way, bh, have you read The Book of Mormon lately? Mind if I send the missionaries over to your place? They don’t eat much, and they only stay an hour.
OT link of the week…
Great song, Alec.
Here.
Some photos of real Dicentrae.
They real purty.
This from a self confessed member of a religion that does that very “aggregate” thing.
Bullshit. And this is only one of the many “liberal christian” organizations wishing to impose “their” form of theocracy on all humanity.
“Muslims paint with a broad brush sometimes.”
Again, please read the Koran. Look up the terms Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb. Islam divides the world into Islam, and other. Other is the legitimate prey of Islam.
Heh, di, ask them to bring rhubarb pie. Anyone who shows up with rhubarb pie gets at least an hour.
#143: There’s not enough Viagra in the Universe……
Heh, di, ask them to bring rhubarb pie
I would not recommend the cooking of any male LDS missionary.
But the damage they do — oh my goodness.
My grandmother’s was spectacular.
@213 dicentra, I like the 3rd photo from the top in that series…the blushing bride ? or ‘Keep yer petal to yerself!’
I didn’t know the flower’s parts were all poisonous. Deadly, or just sickening?
What Christian hurt you Happy ? =/
Who is doing the sneering at white conservative Christians? Answer that question and you’ll quickly be on to why black and liberal Christians aren’t sneered at.
Hint: you don’t bite the hand that feeds you, so to speak. Well, that, and opponents, perceived or real, must be diminished and made irrelevant at all costs. Or, to combine those, when power is the end, everything, and I do mean absolutely everything, else is a means.
the church of the ghey needs sneered at
The bitch had it coming, right?
actually a good sneer and a fart is directed at the church of the left
andy stern pull my finger thug
As a good little intentionalist, let me see if I can accurately paraphrase ‘feets thesis.
The government is rotten. The media is rotten. Any real contact between the gov or media with evangelical Christianity will result in negative consequences for evangelical Christianity. Hence, Super Bowl ads and anything but the most secular government possible are Bad Ideas for evangelical Christianity.
Is that fair, ‘feets?
If it is, how would you advise an evangelical Christian (by this I mean all “spread the Word” folks) to proceed faithfully with their religious doctrines in regards to both the media and “the public square”?
(Don’t really answer me here, if that’s cool, I don’t have any religious doctrines to follow. Think of those religiously compelled to take positive action.)
feets says he is a Lutheran, but Lutherans are all about evangelizing, albeit in a more relaxed & relatively nonmoneysqueezing fashion, as compared with your big-name televangelists.
Irrationality is pretty much watermarked over all of ‘feets’ comments, so no surprise that it bleeds over into the rest of his life.
On this thread, like all others, my grammar errors, punctuation problems, and logical mistakes are caused by a brain lesion. To even notice them instantly makes you a bad, bad person. It would be like laughing at a small crippled boy with large, sad eyes.
Someone a long time ago pined for a faith that would “satisfy the soul of a saint without disgusting the intellect of a scholar”. I doubt we’ll live to see it.
I didn’t know the flower’s parts were all poisonous. Deadly, or just sickening?
Sickening.
“Trembling, staggering, vomiting, diarrhea, convulsions, labored breathing. Skin irritation after repeated contact with the cell sap.”
Someone a long time ago pined for a faith that would “satisfy the soul of a saint without disgusting the intellect of a scholar.”
It’s not the intellect that is offended; it’s the hubris and arrogance. If you can’t worship your own genius, what fun is that?
These words just roll off the tongue…
Community organizing the ‘casual’, uninspired weekend god-botherers to promote various left-winger agendas, including Global Warmalism. If you can’t defeat ’em, absorb ’em.
*!
(On topic, dammit.)
I’m just happy you didn’t pick up on the “soul of a saint” part. Sucker.
Ice hockey.
There, I said it.
Happyfeet why do you want to kill poor people with your fiscal conservatism yoy must be a fuckin NAZI. If you wanted your fuckin NAZISM to be more respected you would not adverise on TV. You fuckin NAZI.
See feet I did’nt say anything bad about you just your ideaology.
From Madison’s Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, Bicentennial Edition, paperback, pp. 560-561:
Not even Mr. Sherman of Connecticut himself ended willing to trust “the prevailing liberality” as “sufficient security against” etc. Damn those dudes were a skeptical bunch.
heh.
I know what it means to work hard on machines – will you believe in love, one that lasts for all time?
By the way hf you might want to go to Deans World and look at the archives where Nishi at various times calaimed to be a Buhdist and a born again Christian. You are a moron and a a fool to fall for the greifer whores bullshit. It was also at Deans World when called on this kind of lying bullshit that she started calling herself a greifer. But to make the point again you are a moron.
Really no one “sneers” at the Amish I live in Lacaster PA ther is an entire tourist industry set up to look at the religious weirdos you really are a fuckin stooge feet. If you were any stupider you would die from forgetting to breathe.
People should assume I’m stupid and link allusions.
‘Cause I’m stupid.
here go
The stupid community thanks you.
Remember happy breathe in breathe out. As Mister Miyagi say “Very important don’t forget breathe.”
okay I will
Turns out the Thompson Twins aren’t Lilith Fair sorts like the Indigo Girls. Nor are they 90’s grrrl music at all. Who knew?
they are very akin to the Howard Jones
Just guessing, but the waivers attendant to the making of that video were vast and everywhere, or the insurance was crazy expensive, and possibly both.
Clive Davis was paying I think, back then.
I’m a muslim…
no, a budhist…
no, a pagan…
jeffy, don’t brand me…understand?
lulz
antidisesablishmentarianism…look it up. i’s the smartest one. bleh
nyuk nyuk nyuk. lawlsez
very nice I kinda had forgotten
Re: Christians and Mormons. My hard right parents have disagreements with the Mormon doctrine. They also disagree with other doctrines not what they consider their beliefs. However, as right wing as they are, my parents recognize there are common values shared for people who consider themselves Christian. We are as big tent as you can get in that regard. And I suspect, to the extent other religions share those same values- patience, humility, love for fellow man, conservative christians would welcome those people as well. However, I am not sure how Christians can lean hard left. Its hard for me to reconcile but ultimately God will judge, not us. I’m ok with that.
email me feets. i’m like totally into you…as long as you agree with me. don’t, and well you’re out to the curb…lulzzzzzzzzz
No, Jeff i was clear.
There are two kinds of WHITE christians.
the Sarah Palin/Jim DeMint type and the Ken Miller/Francis Collins type.
Conservative christians and liberal christians.
Thus confirming my suspicion that nishi’s brain has been digitized by her excessive gaming.
One or zero. On or off.
No one ever links. Who are these people? Why do I care?
Why can’t nishi be nice?
Btw, di, my joke (“sucker”) was that I’m also lazy, lustful, etc.
the Sarah Palin/Jim DeMint type and the Ken Miller/Francis Collins type.
Can you say false dichotomy?
Serious Question:
I am a secular humanist. I am an atheist. Fortunately I live in a secular easy-going culture where religion is regarded as a private matter. So I have never been subjected to any hostility due to my beliefs or lack thereof.
But I have heard some worrying things about the USA from other secularists. They tell me that there are parts of USA where openly atheist people are subjected to serious hostility and discrimination. Note I have never been to the USA. This is purely hearsay. What I see of the USA in media certainly gives me the impression that religion in the USA is remarkably “out there”, compared to the more-restrained low-key privacy in my own country. Religion seems LOUD in America. Even Presidents can’t stop talking about it.
If I was thinking of travelling to the USA, would you advise me to be cautious about revealing my secular humanism and atheism? In my own country if someone tries to engage me in a conversation about religion, I nearly always say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”.
Would it make a difference, which part of the USA I was visiting?
I’m way late to this thread but if you TrollHammer a couple of bigots, it shortens right up.
there’s christians and proggs and proggs suck andy sullivan”s dessicated dick
they = andy sullivan’s dessicated dick
i was clear jeffy…
2 types of xtians…
those that are acceptable and those that need to be…exterminated.
lulz
Now I’m curious Keid, why the circumlocution as to the name of your own country?
Keid A, I’ve been a non-believer since about the 3rd grade. I’ve never had a problem. At all.
I could tell you some stories about not mouthing the proper liberal/progressive narratives though.
no dude do it in gaza and let hamas set you “straight”
bh, I haven’t actually hidden it so much as not mentioned it. My country is Australia.
That was sdferr, Keid A. Myself, I remember Oz from earlier comments.
Apologies to both of you. I should check before pressing “Say It!”
You’re in luck in that case Keid. Heh.
dude that is about as cutting edge as … lol
Keid, buy a weapon and a dangerous looking dog.
he’s so neat, Mr. Newman
yes especially in san francisco
That song about short people is very sad though.
don’t do it in “lower” manhattan either!!!!
Barack Obama got his from that song I think. He determined at an early age to undo the perception altogether and hasn’t given that determination up to this day. Which, isn’t he smart, Barack Obama? wow, so.
stay away from dc
And they don’t, in my experience, come back for a rematch either. :)
In their defense, however, they don’t normally leave my house screaming like the Witnesses invariably do.
Stay away from Obama’s church.
This Keid A sounds like a white devil to me! Can I get an amen, brother Barack?
“If I was thinking of travelling to the USA, would you advise me to be cautious about revealing my secular humanism and atheism? In my own country if someone tries to engage me in a conversation about religion, I nearly always say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”.
Would it make a difference, which part of the USA I was visiting?”
Oh, I wouldn’t recommend coming to the US if you are a atheist! You will be set on like dogs to a bone. Beat in the streets. American Christians are a violent, dangerous bunch.
Best you stay safe in Oz, for sure!
you should come it’s very cheap
Does your secular humanism extend to the idea of natural rights? If so, where to they come from — speaking as an atheist?
Me, I’m agnostic, so I don’t run into such problems.
newrouter,
surveys in my country show that the average degree of religious belief is comparable to that of the more secular parts of the USA, like California.
I can’t understand atheism. It’s always seemed to me to be flying in the face of both rational and romantic thought.
While I don’t agree with agnosticism, I can at least understand it.
Then again, I adhere to a very heterodox form of Christainity, so it may just be a weird by-product of my twisted theology.
On second thought, don’t answer. I’ve decided I’ll watch a Chuck Norris movie and drink a beer rather than slog through what I’m certain will be a tiresome exchange.
To answer your other question, the worrying things you hear about this country vis-a-vis religion you never heard. I don’t believe that for a second. And I’ll be damned if I’m interested in dealing with yet another griefer.
Come, don’t. Find out for yourself or don’t. Live a little. Outside the computer box, I mean. Or, like, don’t.
Agnostics are awesome. Thomas Huxley in the motherfucking house, y’all!
I am completely unbiased, why do you ask?
/sockpuppet off
“If I was thinking of travelling to the USA, would you advise me to be cautious about revealing my secular humanism and atheism? In my own country if someone tries to engage me in a conversation about religion, I nearly always say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”.”
I live in the heart of Dixie. I have zero religious belief. No one cares. Occasionally someone will come to the door asking if I want to come to services at their church. I say no thanks, they say have a nice day or some such pleasantry.
If you really say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”, then you are an ass, proselytizing your faith (which atheism is), or both.
What I would advise you is not to listen to your pinheaded friends render ill informed opinions of what the US is like, and not being a pompous ass – nothing worse than a holier-than-thou atheist.
If you go to California, stay in the cities. Venture out to the country and there are roving bands of rabid Christians, lynching people that even look atheist.
they will make you eat casseroles
I’ve decided I’ll watch a Chuck Norris movie and drink a beer rather than slog through what I’m certain will be a tiresome exchange.
As Franklin Roosevelt said: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And Chuck Norris.”
I apologize for the proselytizing at #290. Will I be called a Nazi?
Let’s just say that I feel supremely confident about saying whatever goofy shit I feel like.
oh please algorism is the religion of the day in california
Jeff G, I think I recall that studies show that even higher primates have a sense of fairness and property, so I presume they are founded in genetic biases, but much modified by culture. All social animals have innate “social behaviours”. Think how supportive to each other elephants are, for instance.
Individualism is an explicit political philosophy. Many cultures have very different theories, e.g. Man as a tribal being with primarily tribal/family loyalties. Or the society as having stratified castes.
No one’s called me a Nazi yet. Hmmm… odd.
i think therefore i presume. dummmmb f**kin’ progg
Keid A you need to watch Justified for to understand the real America.
But please come anyway.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals Chuck Norris allows to live.
evolution is soooo progg
evolution is very America
it’s how we got the raccoons
Individualism is an explicit political philosophy.
One that, you know, um… works. Creates science. Medicine. Literature. High art. A global economy so we don’t have famines and shit anymore. Creates world-wide computer networks so you can bloviate all the way from the Antipodes.
Many cultures have very different theories, e.g. Man as a tribal being with primarily tribal/family loyalties.
Yes, and the cultures which operate on those theories remain backward, vermin-ridden tribes. Vendettas. Belief that the people in the neighboring tribes aren’t fully human, and can thus be slaughtered, raped, or enslaved with impunity. Rigid hierarchical societies based on the arbitrary rule of the local “big man”. Cultures based on taboo and superstition, with any form of deviant behavior being punished harshly.
Take your Noble Savage bullshit and shove it.
so was mohammed a progg?
is hf a muslin? or can al queda help it
“Many cultures have very different theories, e.g. Man as a tribal being with primarily tribal/family loyalties.
Yes, and the cultures which operate on those theories remain backward, vermin-ridden tribes. Vendettas. Belief that the people in the neighboring tribes aren’t fully human, and can thus be slaughtered, raped, or enslaved with impunity. Rigid hierarchical societies based on the arbitrary rule of the local “big man”. Cultures based on taboo and superstition, with any form of deviant behavior being punished harshly.”
You mean they are liberals ?
RTO Trainer
I can’t understand atheism.
I’ve never been able to make sense of the idea of the supernatural. I am first and formost a monist I think. Strict metaphysical naturalism.
I don’t even like movies with supernatural themes or the occult in any shape or form.
I would suggest asking where they get their information, and what kind of “openly”-ness are their sources practicing.
It’s one thing to be openly atheist, and quite another to be openly intolerant of non-atheists. I would rather suspect the latter do get a lot of hostility and discrimination, not so much for their being atheists as for their being assholes.
i want to be a progg and do things to former proggs by my reckoning!
Newrouter, are you seriously ripping on evolution?
Lee at #293 cracks me up.
i’ve never made sense of the scientifically stupid either.
“I am first and formost a monist I think. Strict metaphysical naturalism.”
Ah – a bullshit artist.
I heard in parts of Nevada, there are zombie cannibal Christians. Best to avoid going there.
oh ripping on the gov’t enabled scientific establishment.
SBP.
One that, you know, um… works.
Yes, I’d agree with that. It’s one of the most powerful ideas ever.
I’m not sure it’s capable of sustaining everything in society however.
And the fact that USA has drifted so far away from its foundations in radical individualism, suggests at least that there are a lot of people that aren’t willing/able to follow the implications of the idea all the way.
I think it’s fair to be disillusioned with the scientific establishment.
It’s been terrifically gay for several years.
the fact that USA has drifted so far away from its foundations in radical individualism
it’s so embarrassing when the foreigners notice
I heard in parts of Nevada, there are zombie cannibal Christians. Best to avoid going there.
The award-winning documentary “The Hills Have Eyes” is a must-see.
“…suggests at least that there are a lot of people that aren’t willing/able to follow the implications of the idea all the way.”
Yes, those people are called, “liberals”, “progressive”, or what ever the word du jour is for socialist statists.
“I’m not sure it’s capable of sustaining everything in society however.”
Thanks god for that, since some things nominally societal don’t want sustaining.
Plasmodium Pete,
If you really say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”, then you are an ass, proselytizing your faith (which atheism is), or both.
Usually it’s a defense against people who are trying to proselyte me.
Thank the secular humanists.
zumba hits new zealand and it’s fabulous
There’s rumors about a baptist church in Broward country Florida that has a cardiologist for a pastor, well the story goes they grab random tourists off the beach, split their chest, and stuff Jesus directly into the right ventricle.
I wouldn’t go to Florida if I was you.
That happened to me, LBascom. I thought I’d be saved, but instead, all’s I got from it was the ability to grow a beard and withstand bee stings to the head.
Lee, you’re killing me.
So natural rights are “genetic biases”? Cool. How’d they get there?
“Usually it’s a defense against people who are trying to proselyte me.”
I doubt it, if I can be polite and walk away, so can you. It has been my observation, however, that there are lots of vocal atheists who like to spout off about their atheism because it makes them feel “superior” to those they perceive as untermenchen because they have faith in a supreme being (or beings) as opposed to faith that there is none. I suspect from your tone you are one of these, and the reason you have to get in people’s faces is that your faith is really weak.
I, on the other hand, am an Apathetic Agnostic – don’t know, and don’t care. I also don’t get in people’s faces over religion, and don’t belittle those that believe as long as they leave me alone. So far the only ones who haven’t have been atheists and Krishnas.
I thought McGehee’s comment was worth repeating.
Jeff G
Thank the secular humanists.
Not all secular humanists. What about Ayn Rand?
We agnostics are proselytizing all over this thread.
C’mon, we must be at least a little bit Nazi. Just a smidge?
msmlims like their “faith”
Just a smidge? Nope, this agnostic can’t even remember how the Horst Wessel song goes…
What if we mentioned how we like corporatism, nationalist militarism, and… yet more agnosticism.
I just don’t get it. What are we missing?
Ruh-roh! Does remembering what it’s called count as a “smidge”???
Q: How many monists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: What kind of question is that? You can’t change God, for Chrissakes.
See, Spiny, it’s almost like we can say anything we feel like — Smurf Murder Orgy is God!!!– and no one will care.
i discard the “faith” of mo. tribalism no unless progg then yes let’s do a cuntry now.
higher primates have a sense of fairness and property
Keid A
In all fairness, I wish you had a link to back that up. Chimps especially are vicious and “fairness” certainly isn’t in their “vocabulary”
Humans may be of the “animal kingdom” but we aren’t animals.
What are we missing? Something makes people call Tebow a Nazi. I just can’t put my finger on it.
“We agnostics are proselytizing all over this thread.”
Only a Nazi would proselytize not knowing something – you need to join us Apathetic Agnostics because we don’t care.
Wait a minute, that didn’t come out right…
nationalism. or rather “founding documents” but progg works now
Right you are! Chimpanzees actually go to war and invade each others’ territories for the sole purpose of killing. Jane Goodall was stunned and mortified when she first witnessed it. It’s been seen several times since.
bh, you’re not evangelical Christians. That’s the difference.
So natural rights are “genetic biases”? Cool. How’d they get there?
Natural rights are a philosophical idea.
But I’m suggesting that there is a genetic underpinning to our values.
That we are an innately social animal like all other social animals.
But we are still individual Darwinian agents, struggling to survive in our own right, within the social context.
The theory of natural rights is one idea people have had of how to reconcile that tension in human society.
Thanks, little bird.
Plasmodium Pete:
Anyway, when I get my membership card and blazer badge back from the League of Agnostics, I shall urge the executive to lodge a protest against that religious racket!
Darleen,
I was thinking of research like this
reapings and sowings
Agnostics are really just atheists ascared of the zombie cannibal Christians.
I don’t blame them though, I mean I’m a Christian and get nervous myself when the choir goes for lunch.
lifeydoodles apparently like evoking nazis alot
So man-made.
And so able to be cast off as a better “theory” comes along.
That’s all I wanted to know.
Incidentally, Rand would have hated being called a secular humanist. And though I’m no Objectivist, I don’t need to thank them for the increasing pressures being put on individualism as a philosophy.
link?
KeidA
Ah, but humans are expected to be fair with those OUTSIDE their family unit, even to strangers.
I doubt a chimp would be fair with a capuchin.
More likely, the chimp would make a meal of the capuchin.
“Agnostics are really just atheists ascared of the zombie cannibal Christians.”
It’s a fair cop.
Darleen,
Humans may be of the “animal kingdom” but we aren’t animals.
I’d agree with that too, Darleen. I have argued in the past that Man is a new phylum. We are so unique that calling us merely another animal doesn’t get it. Something unique has happened with the human brain. Biology has solved the problem of general intelligence.
et tu, Huckabee?
That’s true, happyfeet. Just the other day, in between throwing footballs, Tim Tebow was talking about Nazis.
I’m done with you. Want to play tit for tat? Knock yourself out. Go find more justifications for a guy calling a 22-year-old kid’s NFL draft party a Nazi rally.
Do. It’s very helpful to team R.
Well, I mean it will be. Once we find them all and shame them into silence, and if that doesn’t work, kill them. With gas.
Poetic justice, that.
he’s not just my Timmy he’s a national spokesperson for Life
I’m out.
It’s a little too staunch in here for me. Nothing is more classically liberal than your right to get knocked up and, upon demand with no restrictions, kill the human being inside you so you can look okay in your prom dress.
That’s the most America.
Something unique has happened with the human brain
Yes. And for many of us that is God.
As an ethical monotheist, my rights come from Him and while you can try to interfer, crush, or deny me my rights, they are inherent.
Otherwise, I’m just a meal for any other gaggle of humans who decide I’m just another animal.
Darleen,
Chimpanzees are more closely related to us, than they are to the capucin monkeys.
As to why humans have developed this willingness to adopt inclusive behaviours to unrelated individuals I have two theories.
1. The comparative advantage of trade. Man is the animal who trades. It may be the unique adaptation that distinguises Homo Sapiens from earlier homonids. Even in the stone age we find trade routes for flint, ochre, obsidian, etc.
2. The advantage of numbers in war. There is an advantage to forming larger coalitions for defense and agression.
There may be other factors too, but those two seem obvious to me.
Jaysus Keerist, happy, are you still lodged in Mrs. Tebow’s vagina? Damn, you are giving Andy Sullivan a run for his money.
Who cares?
You can piss your life away trying to logic your way through this stuff, and each time — at the end — you’ll find that you need to take some sort of leap of faith.
Believe me, Keid. You aren’t the deep and innovative thinker you seem to believe yourself to be.
As I understood the post Darleen we’re not supposed to call the well-meaning people Nazis, but lifeydoodles do it all the time.
It’s a problem for the thesis.
KeidA
I’m certainly willing to entertain that many of our innate traits or innate nature are “natural”…products of survival evolution.
However, Western religious teachings are about Man’s moral obligation to surpress his “nature” and exceed it. The struggle with revenge, murder, theft, covetedness … all those behaviors which make sense for one tribe’s survival against another, but that limit Man as a species from advancement.
Wait, is “abortion rights” a person? At an NFL draft party?
I was unaware.
Tim Tebow is certainly more America than those who hate him so.
i like human sacrifice. maybe slices up female parts and young ones at the same time. you go you happyfeet critter. allah ackbar
The best part about all this is that it’s now perfectly fair for the Tebows to begin calling people “cumsluts.”
hf
calling abortion a “genocide” is NOT a particular person a Nazi.
and someone pressuring 13 y/o rape victims to lie to their parents, protect their rapist and just scrape out the problem is not exactly MY definition of a “well meaning” person.
YMMV, of course.
That’s the most America. That and the right to kill babies because we’ve been able to tell ourselves that we aren’t, after a certain point, killing babies babies.
I mean, they aren’t real until they come out. Before that they’re like accessories for summer dresses and sandals.
do you really want me to google you up some more Nazi likeydoodle invocations Darleen? Talking about real peoples?
The internets are replete.
*lifeydoodle* I mean
oberdude calls us “FASCISTS” fyi
Jeff G,
So man-made.
And so able to be cast off as a better “theory” comes along.
I can’t answer that Jeff G. I have doubts that individualism will survive if USA doesn’t defend it.
Perhaps it will re-emerge someday in some other society.
nah you’re hitlerite ready faggot and ‘dolph “loved” you guys
KeidA
When all is said and done, trying to explain all human behavior as just evolution-evolved – kind of a prairie chicking mating dance just more elaborate – really dances around the ultimate issue.
Either rights are inherent by virtue of something beyond humans (thus cannot be granted nor denied by humans), or “rights” are merely a human conceit and the thug-of-the-day (Castro, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hugo Chavez) that can aggregate enough power to control other humans is no better nor worse.
thank you “world” traveller for your “insight”
@381 humans can also simply accept them as such and not get into the weeds. See my problems with the word elliptically on the other thread with Ric and sdferr.
hf, your channeling of Andy Sullivan is getting tiresome.
Not trying to give you a hard time, Darleen. Just a third option that many of us have to follow.
Darleen,
However, Western religious teachings are about Man’s moral obligation to surpress his “nature” and exceed it.
I would say many religions believe that, but different religions have different ideas of what exceeding it entails.
e.g. Joseph Campbell found the idea of the heroic quest in many religious traditions.
give me @381 your’s not so much
chimp[s] would make a meal of the capuchin
Pricks.
‘feets, you have to show me how set A saying something illogical makes it okay for set B with the reciprocation.
you say bs. f**kin’ prove whatever progg point you want to make.
That’s fine, newrouter. It’s a sticky wicket for me. Didn’t say it was for you.
I didn’t say it was okay I said ohnoes we have a beeger problem than we thought.
humans can also simply accept them as such and not get into the weeds.
Certainly Ayn Rand does. Her principles were informed by her upbringing as a Jew even as she explicitly rejected religion as an adult. She viewed the rights of Man As Man (individual rights) and just skipped over the part that if man made ’em up, man can undo them.
I don’t mind, really, when people don’t want to “get into the weeds”. It’s like assuming “free will”.
Heh, Darleen, you understand me even better than I could have guessed then.
npr asshole
The study of evolutionary psychology may not end fruitfully for all we know now. It isn’t very old though, at least as a discipline named as such and pursued with any rigor. On its face though, the hypotheses are reasonable enough that I’d give it a bit more time before writing it off as a wild goose chase though. Besides, it can drive the progressives off their nut now and again, and that’s always fun to watch.
I think rights arise whenever you have more than one person. Before that happens you don’t know whether the cat is dead or not.
yo greasey pbuh pig
he’s like our very own Triumph
stick the knife, vacuum other handy “planned parenthood tools” in before it leaves the “premises”
Either rights are inherent by virtue of something beyond humans (thus cannot be granted nor denied by humans), or “rights” are merely a human conceit and the thug-of-the-day (Castro, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hugo Chavez) that can aggregate enough power to control other humans is no better nor worse.
I think there is another way of looking at it. Rights are a powerful theory about the proper relationship of the individual to their society. The fact that the theory works very well in some areas like perhaps, economics and government, suggests that we are getting close to some optimal balance of empowerment in those areas. At least for societies at our level of development.
I am not sure democracy is sustainable in a preindustrial culture. Only Ancient Greece and a few isolated instances here and there ever tried it for long. How it will play out in societies even more technically advanced than ours I can’t say.
bh
really, as long as you are steadfast with assuming that individual rights are inherent and government is created solely to secure those rights, then we stand shoulder to shoulder even if I get a bit out in the weeds and say My Creator and Nature’s God grants those rights.
I’ve stated more than once I really don’t care WHERE one gets their principles…only WHAT those principles are and if one behaves according to those principles.
i think ghey mfers should be aborted. happy have debbie cake and die. don’t forget the skirt dear.
you are a FUCKING drug addict
Agreed, Darleen. Sorta. I’m more saying that those are the weeds for me, not you. For me I can fall down the rabbit hole just with the word “inherent”. I’m a wacky guy.
We’re on the same page.
Newrouter, you make things interesting. You really do.
KeidA
Rights are a powerful theory about the proper relationship of the individual to their society
Sorry, not strong enough. Rights are inherent in the individual. Everything else is secondary, including the “individuals relationship to society.” Either “society” respects individual rights and relationships reflect those rights (ie property rights, voluntary association, etc) or society abbrogates individuals rights by defining the relationship between the individual and society as the individual being subservient to the society (fascism, communism, Islamism).
newrouter
you say bs. f**kin’ prove whatever progg point you want to make.
Well for example in Buddhism, we transcend our natures, when we awaken from the illusion of the material world and the wheel of life/suffering/etc.
Ancient Norse Pagans, transcended their natures when they died as heroes and were carried to Valhalla.
Hmmm. Sounds like a defense against opening one’s mind a little. If we don’t hear the arguments, tehy don’t have to be considered, so just foreclose the conversation.
I start from the presumption thnat human beings are inherently religious, which is a proposition that does nto require a supernatural agency. Religion is simply the persuit of happiness. God, is simply that which is persued–that thing which will rescue us from unhapiness. If you happen to believe that that which can make you happy is the pencil sharpener on your desk, so be it.
From a scientific viewpoint, the second law of thermodynamics seems to me to demand a Creator, whether or not one considers that God. If creation seeks, by it’s nature, the lowest possible energy state, and before creation there was nothing, and “nothing” has a lower energy than, well, “nothing,” than there’s no very good reason for any of this exisiting business to be going on then. Not unless something caused it.
For the trifecta: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, it does NOT make a sound. In fact, it hasn’t even fallen until someone capable of perceiving that comes along to do so.
Rights are inherent in the individual. Everything else is secondary,
I see the position you are asserting. But in practice, societies including contemporary USA grant some rights to the individual and subsume some rights/powers/responsibilities in the collective or the state.
This is even more true in societies that have never made the commitment to the kind of revolutionary social experiment that the USA attempted.
You are asserting as a universal truth a proposition that has only occured to one society on earth.
That society is itself weakening in its commitment to that idea.
I have a lot of sympathy for individualism. I would be sad if the USA abandoned it. I think it still has much value. But I cannot ignore history.
The world seems to me to be moving to some pragmatic hybrid of individualism and socialism.
This is not just President Obama. It started way back with Hoover and FDR. The “New Deal” was never undealt.
Of course you do. Thre cat remains in the same condition he was in at the last moment you preceived the cat’s state. That state doesn’t change (for you–the cat has perceptions of it’s own) until you perceive a change.
Good thing we never tried it.
For the life of me I’ve never understood what’s pragmatic about second rate political philosophy and worse where it comes to economics. But maybe that’s just something idiosyncratic to me, I dunno.
Of course you do.
I just worry, RTO.
We ain’t done yet.
But worry isn’t rational. So reject it.
That’s only true til it’s not though, kind of.
RTO Trainer,
Hmmm. Sounds like a defense against opening one’s mind a little.
No RTO Trainer, you don’t know me. Studying religion has been a great interest in my life, particularly my youth. If I came to the conclusion that it was unworkable for me, it was not without thought or investigation.
From a scientific viewpoint, the second law of thermodynamics seems to me to demand a Creator, whether or not one considers that God. If creation seeks, by it’s nature, the lowest possible energy state, and before creation there was nothing, and “nothing” has a lower energy than, well, “nothing,” than there’s no very good reason for any of this exisiting business to be going on then. Not unless something caused it.
It’s a complex question at the frontiers of current cosmological theory. I did write something about it in an earlier thread.
Simplifying hugely. For a flat universe, the energy of the positive mass-energy in the observable universe is counterbalanced by the negative energy of the gravitational binding energy that holds it together. The universe as a whole is an energy state of the vacuum.
The vacuum itself contains more than one possible energy state. Cosmological observations especially WMAP, are consistent with the theory that the Universe had an early inflationary phase. During this time the vacuum was in a very different energy state. Consequently the universe blew up from a quantum size to its current vast size in a tiny fraction of a second. Currently it is in a low but non-zero energy state. There appears to be a small residual vacuum energy that is causing the expansion of the universe to still accelerate gently.
If the vacuum has multiple energy states, then quantum transitions between those energy states might explain events like “Big Bangs”. There are several candidate models currently.
The question of thermodynamics is especially complicated because of the deduction that the vacuum itself can have a temperature, e.g. Hawking radiation around a black hole or Unruh radiation for an accelerating frame.
These questions are still under intense investigation.
Looks like clinging to faith to me.
Noted that you fall back to the cosmological work of others and curent theory rather than to articulate your own thinking and understanding. Also that you fail to address the postulate that “supernatural” (your sole articulated objection) is not a requirement, of either religion or of creation.
RTO Trainer,
Noted that you fall back to the cosmological work of others and curent theory rather than to articulate your own thinking and understanding.
I don’t believe there is any valid knowledge outside empirical knowledge. My understanding is that science is the best knowledge we can have about the world at any point in time.
Also that you fail to address the postulate that “supernatural” (your sole articulated objection) is not a requirement, of either religion or of creation.
I have never encountered any version of it that made any “deep” sense to me. So I fall back on Ockham’s razor. I resort to the simplest model until it fails. An omniscient ,omnipotent creator is only simple if you’ve never tried to imagine what actual omnipotence or omniscience would entail – just in information terms.
“My understanding is that science is the best knowledge we can have about the world at any point in time.”
That scientist eaten while studying bears found out his scientific knowledge was some what less than your typical 12yo that took his mothers advice regarding bears.
“An omniscient ,omnipotent creator is only simple if you’ve never tried to imagine what actual omnipotence or omniscience would entail – just in information terms.”
Try to imagine just the one factor of mastery over time.
LBascom,
His mother’s knowledge about bears was also empirical knowledge.
We know more about time today than we did before 1916 (Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity).
the cat has perceptions
Why, that’s just crazy talk.
In my own country if someone tries to engage me in a conversation about religion, I nearly always say, “I’m really not interested in religion, I am an atheist”.
Ah, so you choose to engage them about your religion.
Your heroic return to strict logical naturalism is noted. And revered.
Or was it stoic?
Already evident, Keid A. As Jeff alluded, you don’t actually do your own lifting much, do you?
Good point, Molon Labe. I guess my “religion” if want to you call it that is some sort of blend of scientism and humanism.
By calling myself an atheist I am compelling my counterparty to engage on my terms.
You straight away know there is no point trying to reach me with Bible quotes or appeals to some doctrinally “truer” road to salvation.
It gives my opponent a fair warning to load the appropriate brain-software.
JHo,
Or was it stoic?
Anyone can be brave over the internet.
JHo,
Already evident, Keid A. As Jeff alluded, you don’t actually do your own lifting much, do you?
If you mean I defer to the real scientists, who actually do the real fieldwork, the answer is yes almost always.
My goal is different. I see myself as a synthesiser. I’m trying to see the broader picture.
What does it mean that we live in a universe where empirical knowledge is the only path to truth?
“But in practice, societies including contemporary USA grant some rights”
Sorry, Keid, that is incorrect, but thanks for playing. I know you were raised in a European tradition of master and serf, but try actually reading our founding documents. The fundamental thing that makes the US different from everything that preceded is that the enumerated fundamental rights are inherent to each individual, not granted by society, by government, nor can they be taken away by fiat of the state, or society, regardless of whatever unconstitutional law may be pushed.
“Good point, Molon Labe. I guess my “religion” if want to you call it that is some sort of blend of scientism and humanism.”
Yes, it is a religion, because you must accept on faith that there is no higher being as you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of such – which is why I just don’t give a fat rat’s ass one way or the other.
“By calling myself an atheist I am compelling my counterparty to engage on my terms.
You straight away know there is no point trying to reach me with Bible quotes or appeals to some doctrinally “truer” road to salvation.
It gives my opponent a fair warning to load the appropriate brain-software.”
As I suspected, you are a smarmy, self absorbed, sanctimonious, pompous ass in love with the sound of your own thoughts, and overblown sense of superiority, who is probably part of a pack of like minded douchebag hipsters.
“If you mean I defer to the real scientists, who actually do the real fieldwork, the answer is yes almost always.”
Bless your heart, of course you do, dear, that sciency stuff is hard and required actual logical thought.
“My goal is different. I see myself as a synthesiser. I’m trying to see the broader picture.”
Indeed, because unlike those who can actually master a field, you’ll put the pieces together for we great unwashed. Alas, the operative phrase you use is “I see myself”, the rest of us – other than your crowd at the coffee shop – see you as a pretentious twit.
“What does it mean that we live in a universe where empirical knowledge is the only path to truth?”
What it means is that a) unless you can prove that to be true, you have just demonstrated your faith in the religion of atheism that that is true, and b) you haven’t had an original thought in your life. The same drivel has been spouted since the sound of bongos were heard upon the land, and beatniks roamed the earth.
but try actually reading our founding documents.
I have PP, but nothing strikes me so much as how your system is gradually departing from the spirit of those founding documents. That’s my point. e.g. The bailouts that your government organised for your kleptocratic financial system? The Federal Reserve? Fannie and Freddie…wtf????? How is your system better than Europe today? In my country we don’t have socialist institutions like Fannie and Freddie. The US system today is mixed socialist. Deny it if you like.
As I suspected, you are a smarmy, self absorbed, sanctimonious, pompous ass in love with the sound of your own thoughts, and overblown sense of superiority, who is probably part of a pack of like minded douchebag hipsters.
No that sounds much more like you than me.
that sciency stuff is hard and required actual logical thought
No it requires much more than that. It requires very difficult intellectual discipline of reason, not just logic. Reason means “logic” in the presense of uncertainty. Also it requires intense mastery of technical skills. Especially the empirical side.
because unlike those who can actually master a field, you’ll put the pieces together for we great unwashed.
No PP. I am completely indifferent to you. My goal has always been my own understanding. I know my limits. If someone asks me to explain myself, I try.
What it means is that a) unless you can prove that to be true, you have just demonstrated your faith in the religion of atheism that that is true, and b) you haven’t had an original thought in your life.
I’m not sure I’m seeking originality. It’s more about trying to keep up with this remarkable scientific revolution that is unfolding before us. Trying to understand what it is “telling us” about the real nature of this cosmos. Also like I implied before “atheism” is really shorthand. I think my “religion” is more scientism and humanism.
[…] Bosxton host calls Tebow a Nazi, Fred “Toucher” Toettcher, Tim Tebow, Toucher and Rich Via Protein Wisdom comes the latest episode of Liberal tolerance towards Christians and Conservatives. A Boston […]
I wonder Jeff if you remember our discussion of evil when I first took the nishizono name.
I said i wanted to try to try being a being of pure evil.
You said I reminded you of your younger self.
Nishi is the nick i still use here…i use matoko at BJ and TAS, and my muslin name, shams at TI……why do you think that is?
It is not about how my selfperception….it about how you percieve me….that is the reality.
Back on topic.
You are still trying to proselytize poor Spock….give it up.
The reason people hate white conservative conservative christians like the Tebows, is they try to tell other people what to do.
Its that simple.
What was the anti-abortion superbowl commercial about?
Telling people what to do, and telling them mine is better than yours.
You can do that to starving africans with no education…..you can’t to that to the American pollity and get away with it.
I say ……white conservative christians are trying to tell people what to do.
The response is 1) no we aren’t, and 2) besides we have to because its part of our religion.
idc.
If you don’t want to be hated, stop trying to tell people what to do on religion. On religion people are counterrational…..there is no persuasion.
Keep it your pants and out of the public square.
or stop whining.
The reason no one gives a shit about Brian Dawkins (nice name btw) faith is he didnt make a superbowl commercial about it.
The stupid it burrrns.
My shayyk Thomas Jefferson was in favor of religious DADT.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
Freedom of religion in America also means FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
if you don’t want people to hate you, stop trying to push your religion on them, and keep it between you and your god (who ever that may be).
C’mon nishidiot, get to the point; just how does this help Michelle’s children? And how do I get paid?
Tim Tebow has impressed a lot of people over the last few years. Statements like that radio talker’s do nothing to harm Tebow, they only serve to highlight the hate to people who might otherwise not notice it.
But the haters are just too blinded by their hatred to see how revealing their own hateyness truly is.
Tebow has gone from being a big fish in the college pond to an NFL pond that is exclusively stocked with all bigger fish. He’s a rookie, he’s not supposed to be a super celebrity (yet) nor a media lightning rod. Should the haters persist in singling him out the only thing they’ll accomplish is highlighting the irrationality of their own hatred. Any evangelical Christian would call that a win.
Plus it’s great to be a Florida Gator.
How come I never hear TTP complaining about black and hispanic “xtianists”..?
Not in the talking points I guess…
“No PP. I am completely indifferent to you.”
Evidently not, or you wouldn’t have replied.
“I’m not sure I’m seeking originality.”
Well, then, congratulations, you have succeeded.
“Also like I implied before “atheism” is really shorthand. I think my “religion” is more scientism and humanism.”
IOW, you really haven’t a clue about much of anything.
“If someone asks me to explain myself, I try.”
Indeed, and as evidenced by everything you have written, at this, you fail.
Keid A: What I see of the USA in media….
There’s your problem.
Practice what you preach. Or is this meant to be purposefully full of irony and projection vomiting?
PP,
I’ll give you an example of the difference between my position and a-priori atheism:
If science discovered verifiable evidence of God’s existence, I would believe in God like I believe in any other valid hypothesis.
However, even if God exists, I am still a humanist. I don’t worship invisible alien beings. Only Man is “sacred” to me.
But given our current lack of any meaningful evidence to the contrary (at least IMHO), I am an atheist for all practical purposes. It’s not enough to call me agnostic. I don’t see the slightest reason to even begin to believe in the possibility of God. To me nature is a complete self-consistent system.
As for where nature came from, I don’t see why an eternal or timeless cosmos is any harder to conceive than an eternal or timeless creator who then makes a cosmos. See? Atheism is one less step. So I’m an atheist in practice.
Oh, someone’s discovered the elusive Right To Not Be Offended, subsection Godbotherers.
Suck a dick, griefer. Jesus will still love you.
PP,
Evidently not, or you wouldn’t have replied.
You are not the only person reading this blog.
Your challenge was a challenge, but I don’t care if you are convinced.
Trust me. I wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.
Keid, the tracks of your train of thought, puerile as it is, are laid out like a plate of spaghetti thrown on a wall.
I remain curious why you proselytize Atheism, and yet are afraid fully to confess to it, which leads one to believe that your faith is weak, or you are merely acting out.
To me nature is a complete self-consistent system.
That would be because you are pig-ignorant.
Thanks for playing, though.
“Trust me. I wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.”
Well, I see I have been smack on target.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
I remain curious why you proselytize Atheism.
I answer questions people ask me. I am bored. Markets don’t open till Monday.
Evil is not a concept in the animal world; nor is good. Evil exists only because of and in anathema to good, and only exists because God needed it to exist, which, welcome to religion, being of evil. You want to believe you are without any need to hear of any religion, in that you are existing only because a few genes cross-spliced accidentally together gave rise to a somewhat complex soulless biological ‘computer’ without any other purpose than to live long enough to feed, breed and die? That’s not working out so well for you, srry, you’ve transcended animal and embraced evil, moved to one side of the (gasp!) religion wars and guess who’s waiting there for you? on the other side, if not by your side right now.
Best hold tight to your strong belief in only your biological self, drop the ‘evil being’ self-descriptors and hope and pray that you’re 100% correct that you are, in the end, only a soulless animal.
SBP Very complex question. You should know Euclidean geometry is decidable. You should know Presburger arithmetic is complete.
The actual mathematical structure of reality is very much an open question.
Godel’s theorems only apply to system complex enough to support full Peano arithmetic. Whether that applies to the deepest structures of the physical world is unknown.
So it is unknown whether Godel’s theorems apply to Nature.
What is wrong with you people? Are you retarded? Or just teatarded?
Let me make it simple.
IF YOU MAKE A SUPERBOWL COMMERCIAL FOR YOUR RELIGION OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HATE YOU.
if you don’t want the effect, don’t do the cause.
serr8d, ima believer…..i just don’t proselytize so you get confused.
:)
“I remain curious why you proselytize Atheism.
I answer questions people ask me. I am bored. Markets don’t open till Monday.”
Nice tap dace, Bojangles.
That’s not true on it’s face. You have accepted as valid knowledge, whole rafts of information that you have never experienced, much of which cannot be tested. Not a problem to do so, we all do, but claiming otherwise doesn’t help your position. Perhaps its a vocabularey problem.
I’ll say it again: I’ve offered a definition of religion and of creation that does not require a supernatural agency. That is, without a requirement for the omniscient or omnipotent. To put it another way, if that’s your sole objection, now what?
“IF YOU MAKE A SUPERBOWL COMMERCIAL FOR YOUR RELIGION OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HATE YOU.”
Though I am answering my own question, are you really that weak you can’t ignore something with which oyu don’t agree, and which cannot be forced upon you ?
If i want to talk about my religion, i do it at TI.
You guys want to talk about your religion in the public square and buy superbowl commercials for your religion.
Thats okfine, freedom of speech an’ all that, but please quit the whining butthurt about why people hate christians.
Its Crazy Eddie to do things that make people hate you and then whine about not understanding why they hate you.
An evil believer who proselytizes hate. Got it.
Next, self-hate. Then, despair; in the end, welcome home! but for now, rebel, rebel.
PP i can ignore it fine…but that doesnt mean people wont hate christians for it.
RTO Trainer,
You have accepted as valid knowledge, whole rafts of information that you have never experienced, much of which cannot be tested. Not a problem to do so, we all do, but claiming otherwise doesn’t help your position. Perhaps its a vocabularey problem.
No I don’t agree. e.g. There are heaps of things we accept because the knowledge is innate. Genetic. But evolution is the very definition of an empirical system. Information acquired by trial and error. Every mutatant offspring is an survival experiment run by DNA.
But FWIW I don’t exclude the possibility of the divine, or the natural divine, a-priori. If I have enough verifiable evidence I will believe. I still won’t worship though.
“Its Crazy Eddie to do things that make people hate you and then whine about not understanding why they hate you.”
I see, so then the Moslems, one of which you claim to be (BS though that claim is), shouldn’t whine when people hate them for blowing up people who don’t believe as they do ?
Its Crazy Eddie to KEEP DOING THINGS that make people hate you and then whine about why do they hate you.
better
:)
I don’t have a religion, let alone one that follows a child molester. You?
PP, the hirgabi are not muslims…..they just say they are.
Kinda like the teatards say they are christians but don’t actually follow the teachings of Issa.
BTW, did someone buy a superbowl ad about Jesus? I must have missed that.
“…but that doesnt mean people wont hate christians for it.”
You have failed, (big surprise there), to explain why. I don’t count myself amongst Christians, nor any other religion, but don’t hate anyone for an ad. It is an ad. If they come to my house at gunpoint and try to make me accept it I might, but an ad – that getting worked up over an ad as you are is as stupid as getting exercised over a cartoon.
Or the faux virtual muslimas that are still just trying to piss Daddy off.
ok Pablo, I’ll fix it.
You conservative christians want to talk about your religion in the public square and buy superbowl commercials for your religion.
As an empiricist, how did you experience this?
“PP, the hirgabi are not muslims…..they just say they are.”
Got it – you are just confirming you are spouting crap again.
What superbowl religion ad? Cite, please.
“You conservative christians want to talk about your religion in the public square and buy superbowl commercials for your religion.”
Guess what – it is still legal here. You can buy an ad for whatever your confused philosophy is as well.
We’ll still laugh at you, but go for it.
I don’t worship invisible alien beings. Only Man is “sacred” to me
Is it any wonder that some men consider themselves more sacred than others and act accordingly?
“as stupid as getting exercised over a cartoon.”
PP, idc.
let a thousand commericals for conservative christianity bloom.
it is just exactly as stupid as getting exercised over a cartoon…..but that is human nature.
im not saying why I hate christians….im saying why a lot of people do, which is the point of Jeff’s post….its human nature.
ah, looky little Kate “Nishi” Mengele is still parading her hate towards Judeo-Christianity.
Jeff…it would be a lot more fun to talk about Crick’s Astonishing Hypothesis.
jus’ sayin.
im not saying why I hate christians
who cares when we know you do?
Pablo,
To those such as Keid and Nishi who are as shallow as an oil drop on a hot, wet sidewalk, any pro-life thought is tantamount to de facto establishment of the Christian religion because many pro-life people are Christian.
The griefer, with nothing to bring to the table but bile and lies, goes back under the Hammer.
God bless you, SBP.
RTO Trainer
As an empiricist, how did you experience this?
I am persuaded by the very existence of a project like science and its long history of successful modelling of nature in terms of mathematical, models. You are right though that I cannot prove the ultimate validity of this belief.
For that matter I can’t prove I am not living in the Matrix – or dreaming the universe. I cannot disprove solipsism. So call it a working hypothesis if you like. As long as it continues to work in the sense of helps me to survive, I, as a darwinian agent, will continue to use it.
What emprical evidence exists for this? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who actually believes in a priori knowledge.
I wanted to be clear–you are not, despite your self-description, an empricist. You not only accept data from outside your experience, you also accept data that comes from nowhere. Not exactly in keeping with the rational, logical picture you present.
Let’s see, a Christian who says maybe a mom and dad married to each other is the ideal place to raise a child (but we aren’t asking for a law requiring it) — THE HATE!!!
and Leftist who says if you don’t use CFL’s you’re murdering Gaia and must be fined or jailed — Hey, its LOVE!!!
There are heaps of things we accept because the knowledge is innate. Genetic
….
….
um, KeidA. Do you have kids??
“…im not saying why I hate christian…”
Please do – enlighten us – it might help us to understand your fear of an ad which did not push any one religion.
So, what kind of contract do you all think Tebow is going to wind up with? What do you suppose his overall impact and influence will be? Now, let’s compare them to the griefer’s.
lulz.
(((:~O????
Darleen,
Is it any wonder that some men consider themselves more sacred than others and act accordingly?
It is strictly Man that I regard as sacred. Not a man. Not myself.
For example. I would without hesitation be willing to die to save mankind.
My existence is meaningless, futile, and impossible without the species.
It pisses Daddy off, PP. The griefer is nothing but arrested development.
“For that matter I can’t prove I am not living in the Matrix – or dreaming the universe. I cannot disprove solipsism. So call it a working hypothesis if you like. As long as it continues to work in the sense of helps me to survive, I, as a darwinian agent, will continue to use it.”
Hey Keid, glossolalia, look it up, then look at that which you have written.
“My existence is meaningless, futile…” Had you stopped there, you would have been correct.
Pablo,
Of that I have no doubt, but from the source I would be curious to hear (not that I would either expect or receive) a coherent explanation as to why.
RTO Trainer,
What emprical evidence exists for this?
For example we have an innate understanding of three dimensional geometry. It is built into the structure of our visual cortex and brain. Even blind people dream in 3D. I suppose you could argue that the meaning of the brain structures is unleashed by the actual experience of 3D reality, as we mature. But that process too is programmed in DNA at a higher metalevel. So at some level our ability to analyse the 3D space we experience is innate. This could be called “the wisdom of the genes” if you were poetically inclined.
“My existence is meaningless, futile…” Had you stopped there, you would have been correct
No I don’t agree. I don’t believe we are capable of true nihilism. Not those of us who don’t instantly kill ourselves anyway. We are darwinian agents. We are programmed to struggle to survive.
There are certain things I prefer not to discuss for ethical reasons in a public forum – like suicide. It is a question of not knowing the mental states of who is reading it. Consider it an aspect of my humanism.
“For example we have an innate understanding of three dimensional geometry. ”
Actually, “we” don’t, or it wouldn’t have taken to the Renaissance to get realistic perspective in painting and other artwork. That we see in three dimensions is because we have our eyes next to each other so we can identify how close things that are going to kill us are faster than animals with eyes on the sides of their heads and which have to triangulate, as it were, by constantly turning the head from side to side.
“But that process too is programmed in DNA at a higher metalevel…This could be called “the wisdom of the genes” if you were poetically inclined.”
You’re getting awfully anthropomorphic there, son, are you sure you are not a closet IDer ?
You know this empirically? Just when did you figure out how to view the dreams of another person? Have you recorded these observations? Can you provide them to others? Can they see them too?
Jesus kid, you really really need to get back to your homework. Your know nothingness extends to a total lack of understanding of just how ignorant statements like that make you appear.
Even blind people dream in 3D.
Sorry, but the blind from birth crowd dreams but not in visual images.
And if someone has been blind from birth and regains sight after childhood, that person has great difficulty integrating the new information. They have to be TAUGHT to see.
Not an empiricist.
So, given that neither creation nor religion require a supernatural agent, what objection to the existence of God remains?
Incidentally, you do worship. As a human you can’t help it. There is something out that that you believe will rescue you from unhappiness (God) and all steps you take in persuit of it constitute worship.
Darleen,
KeidA. Do you have kids??
I am male, so I can always say, not yet.
For example we have an innate understanding of three dimensional geometry.
MMMmmm. No. Not in the mathematicle sense. What we have is an ability to operate in 3 dimentional space, but then most preditors do. As to being able to think in three dimentions?………Try explaining x, y, and z coordinates to an average nongeek.
“We are programmed to struggle to survive.”
Nature red in tooth and claw there in your coffee shop, eh ?
“It is a question of not knowing the mental states of who is reading it. Consider it an aspect of my humanism.”
You flatter yourself, the only reason anyone would commit suicide from anything you wrote would be to escape your tsunami of perseveration.
The dreaming thing–big problems. As a color-blind person, I know that it is completely imposssible for me to describe what I see to someone with normal color perception. It’s also impossible for them to convey to me what they see. There is no common frame of reference that does or can exist.
“the wisdom of the genes”
Indeed, some even talk.
Wonder where those wise genes came from…?
So “Mankind” as a Platonic Ideal is your godhead.
Congrats. You found some of that old time religion.
Speak.
Darleen, I can’t find the reference now, probably NewScientist. But I have seen drawings by blind since birth people that show all sorts of realistic spatial relationships.
So I didn’t mean visual images as such, so much as abstract 3d space. Blind people must understand 3d space or they wouldn’t be able to navigate around a room.
I agree restoring sight to a blind since birth person is deeply problematic because they have never learned to interpret the visual stimuli as cues to understanding the geometry. They see light but they don’t interpret what they see.
So it is unknown whether Godel’s theorems apply to Nature.
Translation: you babbled. You got caught. And now you’re trying to deflect in a manner which is about as effective as a cat attempting to bury a turd on a hardwood floor.
Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that nature does not include basic arithmetic? SERIOUSLY?
Trollhammmered.
KeidA. Do you have kids??
I am male, so I can always say, not yet.
I don’t know why you want to be coy. It’s not a trick question. But close observation by raising an infant from birth yourself kind of knocks all theoretical assumptions askew.
Babies have a great capacity for learning. But they have to be taught everything except for suckling.
jeff G
Yes i am a humanist. It is the nearest thing I have to a religion.
“I am male, so I can always say, not yet.”
Any reason you can’t give a straight answer to a straight question ? Do you have some reason why a female couldn’t give the same answer ? Do you count having ova as having kids ? If so, seeing as how they are lack the whole compliment of genes, does this mean you still think they are human ? If so, do you object to the Tebow ad ?
Confusing cause and effect. The blind and sighted alike exist ina 3 dimensional objective reality and learn to cope with it by trial and error. Your example is like claiming a child learning to walk has an inate understanding of gravity, marveling that somehow they always manage to fall toward the floor.
Any drawing, being a two dimensional representation, will by defintion have spatial relationships.
Otherwise we’d just call it a dot.
Rusty, there are many different kinds of geometry of different degrees of abstraction. Coordinate geometry is just one. There is also projective geometry, affine geometry. Topology. It goes on and on. I am not a mathematician. Ask Nishi.
I think we’re arguing with a Jonathan Swift character.
Blind people must understand 3d space or they wouldn’t be able to navigate around a room.
But they don’t get and process that information through “the structure of our visual cortex and brain” as you assert. Tactile experience, and sometimes ecolocation. The visual cortex has no role.
If the only way to understand 3D was via “innate/genetic” info stored in the visual cortex, then blind from birth people missing that part of the brain would never be able to function regardless of other ways of learning that information.
Humans LEARN.
For those who might be confused by Keid’s spin attempt, here are the Peano axioms. Note that “number” in this sense refers to the natural, counting numbers — 0, 1, 2, 3…
What Goedel showed is that any system of mathematics which includes these axioms (or equivalents) is a) incomplete and b) cannot be proven to be consistent.
Which, not to put too fine a point on it, blows Keid’s pseudo-empiricist “philosophy” right out of the water.
I don’t know why you want to be coy.
Because he is a troll.
The sad thing is he’s obviously inquisitive and trying to think things through. But he’s up against GIGO.
Is zero a “natural” counting number? I always start at one — and it took a while for the lack of a thing to count to become regarded as a quantity (number) of that thing.
SBP.
Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that nature does not include basic arithmetic? SERIOUSLY
It’s complicated. Presburger arithmetic is capable of simulating multiplication/division through repeated addition/subtraction. There have been suggestions that Presburger could be the basic mathematics of nature.
Particularly if nature is a computational system at some very deep level.
Say like a network of cellular automata.
Also you should understand that our very concept of separate integral entities is subject to the constraint of separability. This is not true in full quantum reality where it can only be true up to uncertainty limits.
Particle Number is not strictly conserved in quantum field theory. The number of electrons in a volume is subject to uncertainty given creation/annihilation quantum fields. Strictly everything is a quantum object.
Thomas,
“I am not a mathematician. Ask Nishi.”
Apparently a homie of Nishi. Rather says it all.
In other words it’s not impossible that arithmetic is a large scale effective theory that only emerges at the macroscopic level. It is entirely possible that the deepest levels of reality are composed of entities simpler than arithmetic.
McGehee, I’m pretty sure that you could modify the Peano axioms to exclude zero and only include the positive integers without altering Goedel’s result.
Oh I know he and Kate are buds, and she’s pure greifer who has zero interest in knowledge and won’t even respond to an argument because that’s not what she’s really about. But he at least tries to respond. Even if only to deflect or deny his lack of understanding he still has the potential to learn something. He may never agree with anyone here, but maybe one day he’ll come to see just how destructive his association with Kate has been.
t’s complicated. Presburger arithmetic is capable of simulating multiplication/division through repeated addition/subtraction. There have been suggestions that Presburger could be the basic mathematics of nature.
Which is completely irrelevant.
But again, thanks for playing.
Say like a network of cellular automata.
And of course those don’t use arithmetic at all. Nosirree!
You are indeed another Nishi. Your knowledge of science and mathematics is apparently gleaned from a succession of pop-sci articles.
It is entirely possible that the deepest levels of reality are composed of entities simpler than arithmetic.
But then how would you ever know this? And if it cannot be known then why do you hold it out as a possibility? Sounds like faith to me…
Why do I get the feeling Keid’s basic philosophy was culled from Aronofsky’s Π and Updike’s Roger’s Version — only he missed the point of both?
In other words it’s not impossible that arithmetic is a large scale effective theory that only emerges at the macroscopic level.
Alternatively, you are a babbling, spinning, deflecting idiot.
What does Occam’s Razor say here, hmm?
Nishbot is no mathematician, by the way.
Multiplication and division are nothing more that serial addition and subtraction. No simulation required.
Let’s, for the sake of argument, call those entities “faith-o’s,” or “Super Sugar God Crisps.”
See what I did there?
Insane in the membrane…
Let me set out a relevant passage from the Wikipedia article here for emphasis:
The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an “effective procedure” (essentially, a computer program) is capable of proving all facts about the natural numbers.
Goedel’s theorems don’t just apply to the natural numbers. They apply to ANY POSSIBLE SYSTEM of mathematics which is of sufficient power (in a technical sense).
One more time
Insane in the membrane…
And of course those don’t use arithmetic at all. Nosirree!
Not necessarily. You can create cellular automata from any logic gates.
Your knowledge of science and mathematics is apparently gleaned from a succession of pop-sci articles.
No it’s mainly gleaned from the physics literature.
You might want to start with learning math before you try to grok physics.
Not necessarily. You can create cellular automata from any logic gates.
You can create adders from logic gates too. Your point?
Oh, right: you’re an idiot.
No it’s mainly gleaned from the physics literature.
The ‘physics literature’ includes New Scientist, apparently.
You can create adders from logic gates too. Your point?
This needs some expansion:
1) You can implement arithmetic on positive integers using logic gates.
2) Therefore a system based on logic gates is powerful enough to meet Goedel’s criteria.
3) Therefore a hypothetical universe based on logic gates would be both incomplete and impossible to prove consistent (see also: Turing Halting Problem).
4) Therefore Keid is talking out his ass. Again.
“No it’s mainly gleaned from the physics literature.”
You claim not to understand math, but can understand physics.
Yeah, that works. Sure, if you say so.
Why do I get the impression that you are just using a post-modern text generator for your posts ?
Now, PP, we all know that physics doesn’t use any of that yucky math stuff.
At least not in the ‘literature’ that Keid and Nishi read.
still my favorite
Nature by Numbers
btw KeidA
Please indulge this little old grandmother and address the “innate/genetic knowledge” thingie in regards to infants.
I know, I’m just a breeder (which horrifies Nishi no end. Uteri being SO old-fashioned) but being so intimately involved in reproduction and raising has given me laboratory experience, so to speak.
Oh come on Darleen, everyone here already knows that proteins are smart!
But the kid’s proteins aparently aren’t smart enough to know where they got all that knowledge from in the first place.
Mr. O’Rourke did a tap dance on smart’s head this weekend, but by the end it turns out everybody is smart, (well, or dumb, depending which end of the leveling gizmo we look through).
sdferr
The C student starts a restaurant. The A student writes restaurant reviews. The input-worshipping universe of the New York Times is like New York itself—thousands of restaurant reviews and no place we can afford to eat.
pure poetry
Darleen there are two extremes you could hold. That Man is a tabula raza and all is learned. Or that everything is innate.
The truth is that most behaviours are a mixture of both. There is a learned component and there is an innate component. It’s like we have evolved to learn from our environment. But nature skips many steps and gives us many basic reflexes and capacities hardwired. Even if they often require at least an element of learning to develop the full potential. To fine tune the circuits.
Very little is pure genes. Genes sit in their environment and their expression is profoundly influenced by it. Also, there is nowhere near enough information in the genome to fully program a human brain. Nowhere near. Most is learned. On the other hand, some brain structures are highly repetitive. So there is quite efficient genetic coding too.
I’m not sure what you want me to say. It’s not either/or. Genes work interactively with their environment to create a brain.
You claim not to understand math, but can understand physics.
Math is a very big subject. Not all math is commonly used in physics. And even in physics I have my areas of interest.
There are many things I would only learn if their was a good physics reason. But my main interest is physics. Someone whose main interest was math would focus more on the math for its own sake.
SBP,
1) You can implement arithmetic on positive integers using logic gates.
Presburger arithmetic. There are no multipliers/dividers.
They are emulated using addition/subtraction and shift registers.
A left shift in binary is a multiplication by 2.
You can implement it in Presburger by adding a number to itself.
“It’s like we have evolved to learn from our environment. But nature skips many steps and gives us many basic reflexes and capacities hardwired. ”
a) Every sentient being, and, because I am feeling generous, I’ll include you in that lot, Keid, learns from its environment, it is nothing peculiar to “we”; b) Haeckel’s Law – nothing is “skipped”; c) don’t begin sentences with conjunctions.
“Very little is pure genes. Genes sit in their environment and their expression is profoundly influenced by it. ”
Sounds like you are a fan of Lysenko; normal genetic expression of a given organism can only be affected by environment during development of that organism, and such expression will be from mutation, duplication, suppression, or partial expression of a damaged or altered genetic component.
“Genes work interactively with their environment to create a brain.”
Only during development, after development the physical environment can damage a structure (, e.g., FAS – not that I am pointing fingers); or lead to protecting a structure, or maintaining its normal functioning. Environment won’t cause genetic change outside of induced (e.g., radiation) neoplasia after development.
“I’m not sure what you want me to say”
You misspelled, “I am not sure what I am saying”.
Darleen’s question was precisely about development in children. It was brain development I was addressing.
The development of the connection pattern in the brain is thought to be strongly influenced by environmental reinforcement. Hebbian learning is a one model, etc.
Presburger arithmetic. There are no multipliers/dividers
So what?
These results apply to ANY EQUIVALENT SYSTEM, dipshit.
Hint: Turing machine. Look it up.
Of course you are, leaving the question of mind unaddressed, arrogantly asserting this the Truth of science while a dozen here see straight through the bullshit and find themselves hardly able to be bothered to reply in kind. Catching on yet? . That this escapes you is either dishonesty or idiocy, Einstein. Really it is: You are either in some significant denial or you aren’t of the capacity to so much as grasp what it is you are not grasping.
And yet it must prove itself to you, and by your metrics, no less. Bewildering if it weren’t so common. What you lack, Keid A., is the willingness to evolve a perspective on your petri dish. Like noogie you point, observe and insist it is All. The notion of why never enters the picture and mostly the question of how goes missing too. You are all about the what in much that way that our noogie observes that the surest way to stop being eaten by lions is to become Roman in a time and place when and where being eaten alive is yet illegal.
Yeah rank dishonesty and lacking the integrity to admit it. Observing such a narrowly-defined “specialty” as to eventually see everything there is about absolutely nothing and to revel in this view with utmost pride. Sound familiar?
Actually many are right, though, that you cannot prove the ultimate validity of that belief. Just as you cannot defend why you hold it and in this thread have admitted as much.
Excepting that you just banged right into the one thing you refuse to admit exists there, this is bullshit. It addresses the question not at all. Answer the question.
SBP,
No no and again no.
Computation does not explore the full space of the reals much less arithmetic.
All digital computation is rational numbers only.
Represent pi on a digital computer. Work out the square root of two. They are irrational. The program never stops.
If the universe is limited to what can be computed, then it does not require the full machinery of Peano.
Presburger and the rational numbers is enough.
Your writing is a sloppy as your thought, and it appears you have no clue that about the relationship between genetic and physical development.
Short of an induced neoplasia, which can be considered a genetic alteration, there is no way the physical environment will alter genetic expression after birth. The physical environment will only affect the physical structure and its growth/function. All the environmental stimuli in the world won’t cause genes to turn on and cause one to grow extra neurons, though appropriate stimuli may cause more rapid physical development of association fibres/connections but that is not a genetic expression – you have those with which you were born and you can’t get more; if we could alter genetic expression via environment, we could fix Alzheimer’s.
Represent pi on a digital computer.
Same way you would draw a parallelogram.
“If the universe is limited to what can be computed, then it does not require the full machinery of Peano.”
Why would it be so limited ?
“Presburger and the rational numbers is enough.”
You misspelled, “I don’t understand the other stuff, so I’ll pretend it is irrelevant.”
“…you have those with which you were born and you can’t get more…”
PP, what about amphibians regrowing limbs? I assume along with the limb comes an assortment of nerve cells to service the limb. So wouldn’t that type of nerve count as a new neuron? And if this re-growth process is available to amphibians in certain circumstances, might not the same process or one similar to it be available to humans as well, or if not built in, be at least a growth process possible to induce in future as the process is better understood in amphibian cases?
JHo,
Of course you are, leaving the question of mind unaddressed
No you are wrong. I have no reason to doubt that mind and consciousness are natural phenomena. I have thought long about mind. I am unconvinced by supernaturalism even there.
Excepting that you just banged right into the one thing you refuse to admit exists there, this is bullshit.
I don’t know what you are talking about. Creation & annihilation operators are used to construct the simplest quantum fields.
Don’t know, but this seems relevant:
I don’t know what you are talking about.
Why am I suddenly visualizing a stone skipping across a pond?
So the fact you’ve pondered the mind > your myopia + I’m wrong? What am I wrong about, Keid A.?
replace + with =
Ah, the little Sci-Fi cultural reference thrown in because it sounds cute even though it does not mean what you imply it means here.
Call it the stone operator and it’ll gain widespread acceptance, ThosD…
I don’t know PP, this is the kind of developmental processes I had in mind. As you see the conections are influenced by environmental reinforcement.
For example, as little as one hour of vision through striped lenses in 28 day-old kittens may be sufficient to bias the orientation columns of V1 to a particular orientation;
You say the genes don’t control the adaptation process? Wow!!
The understanding of which is not innate.
Drawings by anyone are not done in 3d, but in perspective, an invention. Until contact with the west asia did not use perspective in their drawing.
“Call it the stone operator and it’ll gain widespread acceptance, ThosD…”
Sure if the resulting theory is accurate to 8 decimal places.
JHo, remember these are quanta, not classical particles. Exited states of an mass-energy field. Think plucking a guitar string for a classical analogy maybe – just a bit like that.
At this level, as much waves as particles, or neither – quanta.
Sorry Rusty, my memory of this is vague. Not as young as I used to be.
sdferr,
“PP, what about amphibians regrowing limbs?”
Humans and parasites I am comfortable with, amphibians, not so much, but IIRC it is a stem cell sort of event, which would require the turning on, as it were the genes in the cells to differentiate into bone, nerves, muscle, skin. One of the reasons that stem cell research is important, to me anyway, is that it could be used to re-grow damaged bits. Where the stem cells come from is a separate argument, but adults have them, so that should help eliminate some of the debate.
As of now, though, when it comes to neural tissue, which nimrod claims he was speaking of, we have what we have. Long nerves that get severed have some capability to re-grow, but don’t always go back exactly where they ended originally. Damaged brain is gone, but stroke research has shown that other areas can be trained to take over some lost function.
On the other hand, there are reports that humans that have been turned into newts got better.
JHo,
What am I wrong about, Keid A.?
you are wrong that i am leaving the question of mind unaddressed. But surely you must realise this is a deep question, maybe the deepest. You don’t expect a three line answer?
OK the mind. This lecture is good for background. It is a good modern philosophical introduction to the idea of the self-model and the world-model as phenomenological models in the “virtual reality” of the brain.
There is some kind of protest or something going on in part of the lecture. It’s a bit distracting. Try to ignore it.
More vocabulary problems. You don’t seem to know what quanta are and so continue to misuse the word.
“You say the genes don’t control the adaptation process? Wow!!”
No, I said you don’t understand the difference between genetic and physical development, and you proved it yet again; you really are a believer in Lysenkoism, aren’t you ?
“For example, as little as one hour of vision through striped lenses in 28 day-old kittens may be sufficient to bias the orientation columns of V1 to a particular orientation;”
Even in humans, association fibres and their connection to the appropriate places continues for a bit after birth. What is being described is a physical process that leads to abnormal development, not a genetic change, and is really no different than head binding – a physical process causes a physical change.
“It is a good modern philosophical introduction to the idea of the self-model and the world-model as phenomenological models in the “virtual reality” of the brain.”
Yep, this joker is a po-mo generator.
But you are leaving the question of mind addressed when you self identify as an atheist. Surely you must realize this is a deep question, maybe the deepest. You don’t expect a three syllable solution, pointing to science when you deny the semantics inherent in the theology? But of course you do, except when you’re walking it back.
I am not wrong that you am leaving the why and the substance of mind unaddressed, condescending to those who are probably already ahead of you in that regard. It’s a common problem.
I have an idea.
Jeff G:
What I like about this site is that there are so many commenters who actually have direct knowledge on the subject of a post, or the subject that a comment thread wanders off to. It draws out those who mostly lurk – read and do not comment.
I do learn here, make no mistake about that.
(N.B. – I re-wrote this comment three times.)
Brother.
I come home from teaching Sunday School in Spanish and I get this.
Oh well.
All answers to religious questions are religious beliefs.
Is there a supreme being (or beings)? Yes. No. Maybe. Depends. And all the stuff that grows out from those answers.
Is there life after death or before birth? Yes. No. Maybe. Depends. And all the stuff that grows out from those answers.
And the all-time biggie: What is ethical? [lots and lots of answers]
All of those answers constitute religious beliefs. The only way you can NOT be religious is to be incapable of formulating religious questions. My cats (I’m fairly sure) don’t understand the concept of ethics or even mortality. They are not religious.
The rest of us?
Homo credens.
KeidA, your study of religion was probably akin to studying languages by reading the Wikipedia entry on each language, and then discovering that even though you comprehended what the page said, you were still unable to speak the language.
For example, if you read the Catalán Language entry, you will come away knowing more than you did before you read it.
But if you go to Barcelona and attempt to engage the natives in conversation, all you’ll hear is incomprehensible nonsense.
You know why that is, too. It’s because you haven’t actually learned to speak the language, which is a whole different kind of knowledge from learning about the language.
You have learned about religion. You have never learned to be religious.
And even if you did, still you might not like it very much. That’s what happens.
But just as some of us can pick up a second language fairly well and others never quite manage it, religious aptitude also varies among individuals.
That’s the tall and short of it. It has nothing to do with one’s intelligence level or one’s sanity. It’s aptitude and one’s particular situation in life. No other markers apply.
You see….your attempt to share your religion with out-group individuals is ALWAYS met with hostility.
You are swinging your religious fist in some else’s intellectual space.
You christians and christian co-defenders are Crazy Eddy….somehow you think this time it will be different.
It will never be different.
No one is objecting to your right to proselytize…..
I am just objecting to your incessant butthurt whining about the results of your proselytization.
The Tebow family is subjected to anti-christian hostility because of the superbowl commercial…..Brian Dawkins is not subjected to the same hostility, because he keeps it in his pants.
No one wants to see your faith on display.
Zip it up.
OK the mind. This lecture is good for background.
This one’s even better.
No one wants to see your faith on display.
Zip it up.
Physician, heal thyself.
No, I said you don’t understand the difference between genetic and physical development, and you proved it yet again; you really are a believer in Lysenkoism, aren’t you ?
PP you are a total fucking moron. Please leave me alone.
I wish nishit’s pharmacy would do a better job of inventory management.
Or stfu about the results.
Whats my faith dicentra?
Represent pi on a digital computer.
Turing machines don’t have bounded memory, dipshit.
Again, look it up.
It should have nothing to do with one’s ability to railroad conversations to one’s pet destinations, either, making everything about either a ball-peen or a claw hammer.
See Keid A., the cartooning goes with the package. Folks reject the cartooning when they realize it’s just another way to lie.
I don’t mind seeing dicentra’s faith on display at all. I’m someone. Therefore, the statement “no one wants to see your faith on display” is false.
Speak for yourself, troll.
cranky-d ….you are ingroup….meaning christians and co-defenders of christians.
Shut up, noogie.
I am curious how the nishit’s and Leftists of the world would have reacted if this guy had made an equally offensive remark about an all black crowd in the living room of a black guy that had just been drafted. Actually, I am not. We know how they would react. Their OUTRAGE only flows in one direction.
dicentra, what is my faith?
Turing machines don’t have bounded memory, dipshit.
To be slightly more rigorous here:
Yes, there are uncomputable numbers.
No, pi isn’t one of them.
However, this DOES NOT MATTER, because a system which contains the COMPUTABLE numbers (regardless of whether or not it also contains uncomputable numbers) is subject to Goedel’s observations: namely incompleteness and inability to be proven consistent.
A reminder of what Keid said earlier: “To me nature is a complete self-consistent system.”
Which, of course, is bullshit. Total, complete, and utter bullshit. Provably so.
Whats my faith dicentra?
Atheism.
Nishit said “nobody”. How many nobodies would it take to demonstrate that she is a lying cunt?
SBP, Keid A. appears to find, for example, creation and annihilation operators consistent with science and therefore, consistent with truth, which is to say, truth kicks the can down the road.
Atheism is not a faith. And I am not an atheist anyways.
Ill just knock this one off too….science is not a faith….science is the opposite of faith.
So, dicentra, what is my faith?
You said….physician heal thyself…what am I to heal myself of?
nishit’s faith is a belief in pseudo-science, gibberish, and psychadelice mushrooms.
Atheism doesn’t follow a postulate with a practice? Or does it start with a belief and end in a practice?
#595 Mostly the mushrooms.
nishi is mostly bang on at #575 I think, if a bit broad-brushy…
I talk to dirty socialists all the time what have transferenced their contempt for evangelicals to Team R generally, and it’s a huge part of why Sarah Palin is so very widely and so very remarkably hated far out of proportion to her meager accomplishments and influence.
The question of why Team R’s positives are completely uncorrelated to Team Dirty Socialists’ negatives is one that Team R is sticking its head in the sand about as it clings to a toxic coalition that is positively schizophrenic on the question of individual liberty.
From the lobster-pot cooze to Princess Lindsey to Johnny “the government is your downpayment” Isakson to half the Team R pussies in the house voting to mug the AIG executives and their families to Sarah Palin’s lifeydoodle panderings.
It’s a very good question, and much depends on the answer.
this random line-break thing is new
I am a Christian, happyfeet. Go to Church every Sunday, religiously, even. Where would you put me in this spectrum of people?
Progressives would hate “team R” even if there were no religion involved. That’s what they do. That’s who they are. If you think otherwise, you’re delusional.
science is not a faith….science is the opposite of faith.
In your case and in the case of many science fetishists, science is most certainly a faith – a faith known as scientism. Scientism is defined as the elevation of science and scientifically verifiable knowledge to the status of being the only genuine form of truth.
Well I’ll be damned.
Eh, this is a lost cause. I think I’m much clearer where people stand, though, which will be useful in future encounters.
aye aye aye aye aye…i am a frito bandito…QED…lol
silly jeffy…pancakes dont have bones…and plants have no feelings…sowwy :)
look at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i’m the smartest person in the room…provided the room is populated with sponges…
emoticon galore…lulz…lawl…lol…whatevs
Mike – Yet those are the same people that still push the AGW pseudo-science.
yes I’m talking about you JD
you and geoff and dicentra and Carin and Bob are the problem
jeez
of course not
you ones are the Answer, or a big part of it, but you too-often let the not-answer ones speak in your name and tribally pretend criticism of them is criticism of you. It’s not.
crickets?
I’m bored.
I’ll check back later dicentra.
It is very amazing that Manzigate broke 5 days ago and and Allahp and Jeff have yet to say anything.
shockante!
JD – exactly. They worship and fetishize that which they do not really understand. AGW is a perfect example.
But the profound difference between the scientist and the believah is the peer review. Cite: Shit appears and disappears and it’s science but shit appears and disappears and it’s religion.
Hahaha! And with #608, nishi proves JD’s and my very point!
One thing, though. I thought Godel was saying that you cannot prove the consistency of a system just using that system. In other words, is it possible to prove the consistency of one system using a different system (and I see the problem in that one is using this different system which also needs proving and therefore leads to a circular argument)? Note that when I hit this kind of mathematics my brain went “poof” and retreated. Baby Rudin killed my brain.
I am very anti-tribalism. Except for tribes that cheer for the #88.
It’s a good question, about the Team R negatives, and what I always hear is that it’s cause “Team R is just as bad on spending.”
But that’s not true.
So what’s going on?
I have to do laundries so I will tell you what is going on.
Team R lost the issue of individual liberty.
This is why both parties are the suck. Neither stands up clearly and loudly for the individual. And this is in America for Christ’s sakes, even.
In other words, is it possible to prove the consistency of one system using a different system
That’s sidestepping the problem. Even if you assume system S’ which can prove the consistence of system S, Goedel says that S’ itself will be subject to the same problems.
All of Keid’s babbling about uncomputable numbers (which he clearly does not understand, or at least he is not using the standard definition of the term) and about integers being some kind of emergent property of “Super Sugar God Crisps” (thanks for that one, Jeff) is just a half-assed attempt to kick dirt over the fundamental problem.
I’m especially amused by his attempt to run in quantum theory as some kind of support for the deterministic clockwork universe that he claims to believe in. That’s some world-class purblindness there, that is.
Whats my faith dicentra?
grieferism
i’m bored…think i’ll give my pet hamsters a lecture on quantum physics and then roll my poo into little balls…QED…lawlz
No one is objecting to your right to proselytize…..
I am just objecting to your incessant butthurt whining about the results of your proselytization.
“No one is objecting to you being a Jew. We just object to the incessant butthurt whining about the results of your being a Jew. Now, step out of the cattle car for selection.” Nishi at Auschwitz 1943.
beautiful
in the don’t call people Nazis post Darleen just can’t help herself
call me hf…i have a few more hoops for you to jump thru…lulz
By the sportscaster’s own description, MSNBC could be a NAZI rally.
Of course we can surmise that the sportscaster’s politics line up closely with MSNBC’s agenda, and not Tebow’s, hence the insult hurled at Tebow and crickets at MSNBC.
Animal Farm comes to life.
darleen
[ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem (i can speak latin!) ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem (hi happyfeet) ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem ad infinitum…]
Not right to quote someone at length and not provide a link to the entire thing. Still my #560 stands. “Crazy Eddie” is the belief that there is always a solution to any problem, a way out of any morass. “Crazy Eddie” is hope, the one good thing that Pandora loosed on the world.
Well, that’s a given, right? Your thinking she’s bang on?
How about instead of assuring JD, geoff, dicentra, et al that they aren’t the bad kinds of Christians, you recognize that they are pretty representative of the kind of wingnut Christians the left spends so much time convincing you to agitate against.
Further, you might try understanding how spending so much time telling us how nishi is “bang on” even as she attacks, by proxy, JD, cranky, geoff, dicentra, and so on, you are seen as not merely an enabler, but part of the persecution you like to sneer about — the ones these little proto Nazis should just get over, being they brought it on themselves with all their belief in their beliefs.
happyfeet
We have all sorts of evidence for Nishi the eugenist and her ideas of how less than perfect humans (according to HER definition) should be treated.
If you wish to back up the sportscaster who called Tebow and his family “Nazi” and “stepford wives” due only to the pallor of their skin and their faith with sourced quotes from Tim and his mom on mass eugenics, knock yourself out.
Just quit trying to get into her pants in comment threads. It’s icky.
nishi is mostly a lunatic. And it might be contagious. You should look into the possibility.
We can’t build a coalition around an ideal of individual liberty with a bunch of ones that don’t believe in it Jeff. If there’s a better recipe for fail I’d love to know.
The sportscaster doesn’t rise to the level of outrage, Darleen.
Tebow made himself a public figure aligned with a noted hate group. He’ll have to accept the consequences in lost endorsements and hurling hosts and all sorts of indignities I imagine.
Comment by baxtrice on 4/25 @ 2:46 pm #
By the sportscaster’s own description, MSNBC could be a NAZI rally.
hey, his own station could be a Klan rally! The following from a commenter on a HotAir thread:
Not true.
If it was true there would not be any Christians past the 1st century AD. There would not have been any religions spread past the one who first spoke of the idea at the beginning. By this standard nothing new can come into the world as it will never be accepted by those who are “out-group” which is the entire human race at some point for any thing new.
with a noted hate group
Hamas?
nishi is a recipe for fail. You can tell by the way people loathe her and wish she’d go away and not come back, ever. People like Christmas. Nobody likes nishi, except for you.
Noshi the Princefelcher is growing on me though.
We can’t build a coalition around an ideal of individual liberty with a bunch of ones that don’t believe in it Jeff.
do you kiss your mama with that mouth, hf?
See? Lunatics have to make shit up to hate.
Tell me about the Joooos, ‘feets. I like the one about the bloody pastries, if you don’t mind.
she’s with Kurt Cobain and President McKinley now, Darleen
Hey! Find another pejoritive, MK? You’re bandying us about an awful lot lately! Remember, not just anyone can be a cumslut or a hoochie.
Sorry. Focus on the Family is a wonderful organization with views firmly ensconced in a tradition of classical liberalism I mean.
Not true.
that was the part I thought was broad-brushy
hf
I don’t give a flying fuck if you have issues with FoF. But “hate group” is a specific designation. There are LISTS.
So go get your pic of Nishi and jerk off to it all you want. But just because YOUR definition of “individual liberty” includes instances of infanticide and enabling child molesters, doesn’t make those people who draw the line a bit differently a “hate group”.
Can I play? Focus on the Family is a wonderful organization with views firmly ensconced in a tradition of taking over the GOP. Next time.
That was the entire thing except for the strawmen added for extra tastiness.
There are LISTS.
OUTLAW!
“Crick’s Astonishing Hypothesis
A mechanistic outlook of human consciousness. While there probably is a bio-mechanical component to thought, as well as something more mercurial, to make the “leap of faith” that the same applies to the soul is arrogant.
Science, using the language of mathematics mostly, is the way we humans wrap our minds around the wonder of God’s creation-the cosmos as well as “inner space”. But, the latter is nearly immeasurable and relies on many of the same fuzzy reasoning that is present in the social, and behavioral, “sciences”.
Focus on the Family is a “hate group”?
nishi is what the internet is about, Mr. Pablo… to bandy about the ideas and the thinkings… she doesn’t just hang with her like-minded friends and cry in their like-minded beers… she engages and she argues for the beliefs what are in her head.
She’s admirable.
And yes RTO I have designated FotF as a hate group.
It’s on a LIST in another window.
Yeah, but did you hear what Tebow said? “Thanks, Mom.” “I love you, Mom.” “Do you still worry about me, Mom?”
What kind of sick, evil fuck does that? It’s a plot, I tell ya.
nishi is what TrollHammer is about Mr. looneyfeet.
yeah, hf
when FoF is on the FBI/Homeland Security/CIA list of hate groups, let me know. Otherwise, they are just another social/political group with individuals exercising their rights under the Constitution.
And Little Katie Mengele is admirable.
I like and respect her Pablo.
Y’all are not-likers, many of you. I don’t understand that about you. It’s a quality what greatly abets the silly epistemic closure meme I should think.
Heh, SPLC.*
Nobody said FOTF was classically liberal; it’s classically liberal to tolerate FOTF. And to not go around calling people Nazis or cumsluts for their views on whether or not it’s a good idea to grant someone the right to decide to snuff a life because they still want to drink tequila shots and wear the latest James Perse skinny jeans.
that list has many authoritah, Mr. bh… you can tell cause they call it an Intelligence Report.
she argues for the beliefs what are in her head.
She’s admirable.
Yep, nishi is admirable for her hate and wish to eliminate those that don’t measure to her standards of “human”
but some football player who can be counted on NOT to sexually assault a woman in a bar’s restroom…AH, HE is the hate-monger!!
compasses, people.
“For example we have an innate understanding of three dimensional geometry. It is built into the structure of our visual cortex and brain. Even blind people dream in 3D.”
I’m believe you’re mistaken Keid. Blind folks percieve their world in three dimensions owing to sensory input of touching things, moving about, etc. Should one be striken from birth as a parapelegic as well as blind, that person would not necessarily conceptualize the world in 3-D.
I feel like it’s my turn but I got nothing.
compasses, people.
Both hands and a flashlight for some.
Ah, there’s the happyfeet self-congratulatory moment. Admiring nishi, who dumps ad hom here relentlessly = admirable and “open-minded.” Not admiring nishi for doing so? Proof of the epistemic closure that will eventually “force” happyfeet and his intellectual curiosity to the Left.
Here’s a hint, happy: we don’t reject nishi because we’re epistemically closed. We reject her because she’s wrong.
All I ask is that you tolerate my respect for nishi.
How are you on someone pathologically attributing to others the symptoms of their own bigotry, ‘feets? Because getting back to the epistemology, sadly, framing it is your noogie’s drug of choice. Of course, it is the lie.
“I am not a mathematician. Ask Nishi.”
*SNORK* That would be like the blind, leading the blind.
Tolerate that I cannot respect your tolerance for the disrespect of a liar.
Designated on what basis? I mean, they aren’t my cup of tea, but “hate group” is way beyond beyond.
As for not liking Nishi, that began with her inability or unwillingness to honestly engage in debate on any subject coupled with a deliberatly annoying abuse of language. However, her persistence in spouting has lead to a corpus of thought on her part and that, on balance is not only antithetical to Clacical Liberalism, but overtly hostile to it as well.
@659: A GPS wouldn’t help much either, unfortunately.
Complete, utter lack of moral compass. Psychiatrists have a word for that, don’t they?
That’s because your thinker is busted. But maybe screeching about those fucking WHITE Xtians a bit more will knock it back into sync.
Tolerate you, sure.
OTOH, tolerate that other individual who displays no tolerance or respect, that’s not happening.
It’ll have to be up to you to distinguish between the two.
And because she’s aggressively anti-social ion her ignorant wrongness, like she’s one of those…oh, what’s the word…griefers. Self-proclaimed. What’s to like?
Complete, utter lack of moral compass. Psychiatrists have a word for that, don’t they?
Sadly the word is often ‘colleagues.’
RTO nishi many times opens a door to a discussion of the sorts of valuable self-appraisals what Team R neglects and neglects doing to where I don’t think the poor dears would know where to start. We need to help them more.
We don’t talk much here about how frightfully diseased and loathsome Team R has become. We pick the odd nit is all. It’s the almost wholly predictable failures of Michael Steele’s Princess Lindsey’s Meghan’s daddy’s Team R what will consummate the dirty socialist perversion of our little country, you know. The failure to stand against it. The failure to roll it back. The failure to stand for something beyond not-dirty socialisms.
I’m very very concerned.
nishi’s critiques are a useful starting point, could be, ann me I think they point to what I said in #615, many times anyways.
*and* me I think I mean
“spanking enthusiast”
Never did run into one of those. Nice slug though.
Kate’s concern for and desire to improve the lot of team R is well hidden.
Much like her man lust. Or so I suspect.
Except for every day after day after day, that’s pretty much right.
Hey, and maybe the Gazans could give Israel some tips on how to be better people…
you have not been hearing the injunctions not to criticize the coalition partners Mr. Pablo
geoffb said:
“Crazy Eddie” is the belief that there is always a solution to any problem, a way out of any morass.
Which is why fiction remains fiction. The movie ‘Titanic’ had to have Rose survive, which is why Rose survived.
Reality is a bit different.
Must be because we haven’t been having that discussion. Or maybe there are whole threads about that and I’ve just missed them.
Reality isn’t progressive? But…the reality-based party.
@671: Scientologists have a phrase for this type of concern: “fair game”.
Maybe Team R needs more time with the E-meter.
I’m very very concerned, Bob.
I had thought not-dirty socialisms would be enough. That was my hope.
But Team R, it is so unrelentingly stupid and not a little gay.
“No, I said you don’t understand the difference between genetic and physical development, and you proved it yet again; you really are a believer in Lysenkoism, aren’t you ?
PP you are a total fucking moron. Please leave me alone.”
Ah, yes. The last argument of the perpetual adolescent, sorry to have bruised your ego and pre- and ill- conceived notions.
“Atheism is not a faith.”
*SNORK* They can’t write stuff like this in Hollywood today…
“science is the opposite of faith.”
Not in all cases; I’m thinkin’ of the AGW connivance here…
You seem to confuse science fiction with reality an awful lot.
#660 JeffG:
And we reject nishi because she embraces evil.
We don’t talk much here about how frightfully diseased and loathsome Team R has become
Cause, you know, when the gangbangers are kicking in the door to steal your stuff you really should turn around and slap your spouse around a bit for running the credit card over limit.
@682: So this is your solution?
I think asking why is part of the solution Mr. Bob… and is that hoochie really worth the resources she’s consuming?
the political resources and the communications resources I mean
“nishi is mostly bang on at #575 I think, if a bit broad-brushy…”
I dunno happy,
I can cite plenty of examples where guys like Brian Dawkins, Ray Lewis, and my black cousin Ed Reed, freely and openly speak of their faith, as well as engage in ministry and outreach; including on national television.
Look at just about any post-game interview. When the reporter asks, “How did you do it?”, thise fellows generally begin by giving thanks to God, with gestures and often in words.
But, the guiding paradigm of the identity politics crew only allows for the open ridicule and criticism of white Christians…
Just like the tactics of Saul Alinsky…
Coincidental? Maybe, but maybe not.
I’m sorry Pete but I gonna have to offer some criticism. You are assuming facts not in evidence. Sure the kid is obviously adolescent, but we have no indication that he has reached or exceeded chronological adulthood.
yes, Darleen, cause it’s very America to be on the Winning Team, no matter if America is become a repellent shit-for-brains dirty socialist travesty of what she was meant to have been…
Meghan’s daddy would have but fucked us more gently.
Our little country took a wrong turn, and Team R is playing very coy about offering up the Right Turn.
Romney Palin Pawlenty Meghan’s daddy Newt Gingrich?
It all looks so yummy Team R I can’t choose.
Be back later, all you fine folks enjoy!
#671 hapyfeet: Nishi (or matoko or kate or whomever) opens doors to discussion, correct. And those doors have been opened before here and in years before PW. And those doors have revealed rooms that it is better not to enter.
Buck v Bell. A US Supreme Court case.
Treblinka. A place that rationally applying eugenics has lead to.
Do. Not. Want. And saying DNW results in rejecting nishi (or whatever she calls herself today – the label changes but the stink remains).
@688: You and Team D sure seem to think so. Have you considered that?
@689: You hasten to add. Hmm…
“white Christians” are a target I think Bob cause they have become synonymized with Team R, and Palin and others aggressively perpetuate that synonymizationing. Team R has indulged in a very very inept foray into identity politics and it’s “white Christians” what get to take it on the chin for it. They’re seen as antipodal to blacks and gays, i.e., “civil rights,” and they don’t work terribly hard to slip that noose.
you made me use i.e.
gack
So any avowed and proven anti-Socialist, free-marketeer, fiscal conservative stalwart, who also happens to be a “lifeydoodle,” need not apply? Where does this line get drawn for individual freedom? Presumably we don’t start permitting murder of walking around people on that basis. I wonder why that is?
I still think David Szondy said it best.
http://www.davidszondy.com/future/man/eugenics.htm
When science becomes a religion, and the scientific inquisition.
Mikey she has new memes she hasn’t talked about ID not even a little, praise be.
Meghan’s daddy would have but fucked us more gently.
Oh, so Obama’s rape is for our own good.
I wonder what Reggie White wouild have thought about this situation.
So any avowed and proven anti-Socialist, free-marketeer, fiscal conservative stalwart, who also happens to be a “lifeydoodle,” need not apply?
I did not say that RTO, but if you’re a lifeydoodle what has an itchy legislating or appointing the lifey prohibitionings hand then you’re at best a very suspect member of Team Individual Liberty I think.
So any avowed and proven anti-Socialist, free-marketeer, fiscal conservative stalwart, who also happens to be a “lifeydoodle,” need not apply
so says happyfeet while decrying the “narrowing” of Team R.
one cannot make this shit up.
Reggie White would have sacked the hell out of someone. Of that, I’m sure.
What about someone who is against the gay marriagings?
Darleen you do more distortings than nishi in a month of Sundays.
Needless to say, Auschwitz and the Nuremburg trials put paid to the Eugenics movement and gave the world a very stern lesson of what happens when you stop seeing people as children of God and more as laboratory animals.
Needless to say, eugenics is still advocated. Bad ideas do not die, they just lie dormant before another clever idiot brings them forth.
Feet, White Christians are going to be a target no matter who runs or is nominated, because there was never an adequate defense of those attacks. It’s considered a proven avenue of approach to the enemy and they will continue to use it so long as we allow it to remain effective.
Until then it matters not a whit who represents “Team R.”
And a problem like that needs more nishi, right?
/facepalm
Because I think present day happyfeet would be a bit too rough on past happyfeet. About the gay marriagings.
And, when you were calling yourself a bunch of names and tying yourself to Team R failure you’d do little to convince yourself otherwise. In fact, you’d probably harden your position. And then present day happyfeet wouldn’t exist. Like Back to the Future.
Where does this line get drawn for individual freedom? Presumably we don’t start permitting murder of walking around people on that basis. I wonder why that is?
hf
pooh. You go out of your way to demonize Christians who DARE SPEAK THE FAITH THAT SHOULD BE ASHAMED!! and at the same time whine in your beer that “Team R” isn’t a “bigger tent.”
Obama strips “Islamic extremism” and “jihadism” from government and YOU think “white Christians” are “hate groups”.
You’re like Comedy Central … scared of the real enemies so beat up on your allies as imperfect as they are.
that is not what I whine about Darleen… I whine that Team R doesn’t stand for shit on a cracker.
But yes, Focus on the Family is a hate group what has no business being praised by classical liberals.
They think you were remiss in not sending your pet gay to get cured, you know.
Or if you’re a mother who talks about how much they love their kids and are glad they and them you’re a cumslut. But if you like to talk about how awesome it is to make a habit of sucking another man’s cock, you’re aces! High five!
…had them…
nishi and happyfeet are a hate group. You can tell by the hate hate hate.
hf
But yes, Focus on the Family is a hate group what has no business being praised by classical liberals
NO ONE is praising FoF. That is entirely different than supporting their Constitutional right to their own opinions no matter how wrong some may be. Hate group? No, maybe misguided on some things but right on others.
They think you were remiss in not sending your pet gay to get cured, you know.
Jesus, you are still trying like all get out to impress Nishi enough so she’ll let you fuck her.
While demanding that it not stand for anything but what, ‘feets? And about noogie you disappoint. It’s like two different versions of reality and one of them has a fan base of one. Do value your credibility more, ok? Team R needs it too.
Because I think present day happyfeet would be a bit too rough on past happyfeet. About the gay marriagings.
I grew in office. It’s mavericky I thought.
That’s cool. Nothing wrong with changing your mind.
As that happened over time and “organically”, I’m not sure why on that subject, or others like it, you think the hard sell would be effective. I don’t think it is. It definitely isn’t when the hard sell is coupled with insults.
I suck but my heart’s in the right place I promise.
My Hot Air friends say I’m a wacko. And British.
sorry… “whacko”
bless their hearts
#717 darleen:
NO ONE is praising FoF. That is entirely different than supporting their Constitutional right to their own opinions no matter how wrong some may be. Hate group? No, maybe misguided on some things but right on others.
Bingo. Right in the gold.
But a real hater? See a eugenicist for hate – maybe the hate is covered in a cold scientific terminology, but the hate is there. And the hate is there because some people have to die, and others were best never born, for eugenics (applied breeding of humans) to work.
Ick!
Say – does anyone remember the Bond movie ‘Moonraker’ and Jaws’ reaction when he finally understands what the villian Hugo Drax’s plans mean to his girlfriend?
Well, ‘feets, as a Hot Air member, I don’t think you’re “whacko”, just disturbingly, Andy-Sullivan-esque obsessed with women who chose not to abort.
And I know you’re not British.
thank you Spiny
fair enough
MikeyNTH
That’s Nishi you’re describing. But of course, we’re the haters, not our Kate…
coo coo cachoo nishizono san
she’d like to help you learn to help yourselves
but look around you, all you see are unsympathetic eyes
stroll around the grounds until you feel at home I think but that’s just me
I’d love to see Gingrich elected, even if only to put paid to the lie of Obarkyprompter’s intelligence.
#728 Spiny:
My nephew is autistic. And in nishi/matoko/kate’s world he would have received a very short shrift.
And that is why I dislike ‘Idiocracy’.
And that is why I see ‘The Marching Morons’ as a catastrophe.
Who gets to chose who dies, when, and why? Chosen how? By what standard? Is that standard one that can be gamed (if it is run by humans it will be gamed)?
The inconvenient (to the chosers – no matter the nature of the ‘inconvenience’) will find themselves amongst the unfit. Such as it always was, such as it is, such as it will be – until the end of the species or the end of time.
(This comment took four re-writes.)
#717: As I said, not enough Viagra in the Universe….
did you read that article Mr. Instapundit had about marijuana and autistic kids, Mikey?
you all are fails because you haven’t yet embraced the goodness of the nishi what is just trying to help you back from the darkness of your black velvet strobe-lit god rooms.
here’s to you my little loves with blessings from above now let the day begin let the day begin let the day start not, I think.
I know it’s you tricker
“nishi is what the internet is about, Mr. Pablo… to bandy about the ideas and the thinkings…”
Oh, plese, nishit doens’t think, she’s a walking cliche spewer.
I have to go but I will be back later.
#733 happyfeet:
Should my nephew never been born? Eugenics would say he should not have been born.
Cures or treatment do not come into play when ‘never should have been’ is on the table. And if you can enforce ‘never should have been’ then there is no reason to look for a treatment or a cure.
I don’t like eugenics, nor do I like eugenicists. There is no mercy.
Fiction is merely fiction, but sometimes it can give us an insight (from the author to us) about what it is all about:
The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence ‘gainst the merchant there.
There can be wisdom in fiction – so long as you look to the correct author. And the correctness of the author is manifested in the author’s audience. The author puts forth his intent, and the audience, even 500 years later, receives the intent. And actually understands the authors intent no matter how much scholarship is applied (Hi there Dan Collins! {waving of hand, big, sheepish grin on my part}).
“But yes, Focus on the Family is a hate group what has no business being praised by classical liberals.”
They should be SILENCED!!!!!!!
Unleash your inner fascist, happy.
No. She’d like to turn us into Progressives like herself.
She’d like a nice pair of jackboots but she just doesn’t have the legs for them.
Ther very idea of “hate group” is not Classically Liberal, I think. People have the right to be wrong, even very very wrong.
My nephew is autistic. And in nishi/matoko/kate’s world he would have received a very short shrift.
Mike
I lost 2 first cousins to cystic fibrosis. There was no genetic testing for it back when I was having my girls. Nishi would have had the government sterilize me rather than take a chance of passing on a recessive gene (nothing showed up in my kids and nothing in my grandkids, so I may not have gotten the gene).
My youngest grandson (3 y/o – step) is autistic. I’m learning a lot fast about it. What I do know is that when he’s around my other grandsons (7 y/o twins) he is estatically happy and just follows them around with a big grin and hugs them all the time.
Nishi wouldn’t suffer him to live.
#743 darleen:
And my nephew is also very affectionate and very in contact with the world around him. He is a sweet little boy (ten – IIRC) a bit behind academically, but very good at math.
And in n/m/k world he would not be. And something would be missing from my life.
Another author:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditation_XVII
I’d like to know where I fit in with HF’s new club.
I’m very conservative, fiscally as well as socially. Can I be in the HF team R club on the fiscal part or is the socon part a deal breaker? Should I just shut the hell up, HF?
Re autism I think this argument is compelling:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/autism/
Or – if I can understand the words of Mr. Donne written 500 years ago and get his intent – I will put it into the words of Red Green “Remember, I’m pulling for you. We’re all in this together.”
(And there is always “Quando omni flunkus, moritati.”)
We aren’t the problem, Big D. It’s all the other ones what are the problem.
You know. THEM!!
Not sure what you’re getting at, cranky.
The socon part is a deal-breaker. I’m afraid you’re in with us BigD.
Semper Licentia!
Man! This thread is epic. I can barely keep up…
dicentra?
just what is my faith, please?
How am I supposed to heal myself if I don’t know I’m healing?
Big D
You know what’s funny? I have no problems with social cons, even if I come out more on the libertarian scale of things. I’d rather hang with social cons who are honest in their convictions then some of the classist, behind the hand (or not so concealed) sneerings from Proggies and proggie wannabes against the “hicks, hoochies and cumsluts”.
Nishi accuses me of being in support of the YNEZ polygamists (though the #1 reason I’m against same-sex marriage via judicial fiat declaring it a “right” is the automatic legalization of polygamy) only because I demand the rule of law be followed with them AND that – outside of asking for state sanction – any group of people should be allowed to follow how they want to live without state interference (save for illegalities).
Thus Nishi-obsessed happyfeet feels I “praise” FoF merely for standing up for their Constitutional rights and saying they are not a “hate group.” Along with the attendent slams against the gay members of my family.
HF has succumbed to the usual Proggie groupfeel — blurring of the macro and micro, the public and private, the law and individualism.
re HF: Amazing what sexual lust will do to the male brain.
Turns out there’s a ton of Christians lying about. And they’re not happy.
Malignant narcissism, by all appearances.
Oh, dinner’s on! My wife made the smoked chicken enchiladas. Best to all!
just what is my faith, please?
nihilism
Good points, Darleen. I guess I would call myself a socon, but what I really am is a leave me the hell alone con. Guess I just don’t see what is wrong with Tim Tebow and his Mom.
Big D. We need a recipe for that when you get back.
After my last, I went and took a nap. So, lots of catching up to do.
Nishi thinks that I need to identify her faith so that she’ll know what to shut up about. Nishi didn’t comprehend my #574, wherein I said that we’re all religious, and however you answer a religious question constitutes a religious belief.
Whenever Nishi spouts on about trans-humanism, she’s expressing religious beliefs.
science is the opposite of faith.
I was taught that faith is a method for discovering spiritual truth.
John 7:
Try it and see, IOW. Do it and see what happens. Then you’ll know instead of merely believe.
And now, to get REALLY Mormon on you, a little explanation from the Book of Mormon itself. Dude named Alma is teaching the word of God to a group of people, and he explains how they can use faith to arrive at knowledge.
Alma 32:
Faith is a method for learning spiritual truth; it is not a method for learning about quantum mechanics. By the same token, particle accelerators can tell you lots about subatomic particles; they can’t tell you jack about the nature of God.
Faith is therefore not the opposite of science; it is an analog, used for finding out truth just as surely as instruments find out scientific truth.
no weasel words di.
in the context of proselytizing you said, “physician heal thyself”.
If I am a proselytizer…..how can you not know my faith?
Have i not described it in the course of proselytizing you?
and yes…..faith is the opposite of science.
you ones are the Answer, or a big part of it, but you too-often let the not-answer ones speak in your name and tribally pretend criticism of them is criticism of you. It’s not.
On account of I don’t have a problem with Tim Tebow and his mom, nor with Sarah Palin, nor with the “tacky” people that the proggs continually sneer at.
They are my tribe, ‘feets. They’re my tribe because they have the same value system as I do. Their means of expression are often not the same as mine—and they’re more likely to be sneered at by proggs—but that’s because the proggs are filled with hubris and elitism and bile and vinegar, such that they h8 righteousness the way my cats h8 sprinklers.
The proggs are the ones with the problem, ‘feets. Not Palin and Tebow.
You don’t get to separate me off from the tackier godbotherers. Just because I’m not always jabbering on about JAY-sus and saying hallelujah every other word doesn’t mean that I’m not just as “bad” as they are, when it comes right down to it.
Yes, I think that we’re best focused on Putting The Gubmint Back In Its Enumerated Sandbox.
But I’m not going to shoot down members of my own team just because the proggs find them ridiculous. That would be shallow as hell on my part, and I’m not going to do it.
Not.
Which is why I take offense when you slam them—they don’t need slamming. They’re OK. You, on the other hand, are letting the proggs call the shots on who is legitimate and who is worthy of mockery.
There’s an unbridgeable gap between Americanism and Leftism, ‘feets. Getting rid of the “embarrassing” ones won’t solve that. They’re objecting to Palin today because she’s an easy target. Get rid of Christianity entirely and they’ll find something else to ridicule.
Frog and scorpion, ‘feets. Frog and scorpion.
That Paul Ryan sure is dreamy, isn’t he? For a WHITE Christian lifeydoodle, that is. Too bad he’s going extinct.
science is belief supported by evidence.
faith is belief without evidence.
Paul Ryan is a spicy little dish, Pablo.
Team Big D:
The least amount of government necessary to fulfill constitutional obligations. That’s it. No more.
Who’s with me?
okfine di….you have no problem with Palin saying she rejects the separation of church and state?
you relly don’t get it….freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion.
Which means you have freedom of speech to proselytize, and everyone else that wants to be free from your religion has the freedom to mock you and hate on you when do.
faith is belief without evidence.
Figure that all out by yourself? Here’s a pudding cup. Go play.
Seconded.
Do members of Team Big D get complimentary smoked chicken enchiladas?
We don’t talk much here about how frightfully diseased and loathsome Team R has become.
The GOP has a few good eggs, but all too many elephants are loathesome career politicians with no moral center who are far too comfortable with their collegial relations across the aisle. They’re quasi-proggs with an R after their names.
I don’t like McCain any more than you do, ‘feets. I also am looking forward to making sure that Bob Bennet (R-UT) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) are put out to pasture. They both represent What Is Wrong With The GOP.
But if by Team R you mean all of us on the right, I’ll have to disagree. We can’t look to the proggs for our cues on what and whom to be. That’s what Team R has been doing lo these many years.
How is that workin for them?
Is my point.
As usual, it’s the same GIGO with the nishbot.
freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion
Wrong. If that were so, why didn’t any of the founding fathers define it as such and why are there references to God in our founding documents?
Absolutely not. Behaving along that belief, you will have 100% foreclosed on all inquiry, all imagination, all funambulism. You shoot cosmology (for one) square in the head, making Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku unemployed.
Science is the constant testing not only of the intiutions, the inquiries, and even the crazy theories, but also of all those things we think we already know, if only because, way too many times, that “settled” knowledge has turned out to be wrong or incomplete.
Real scientists beleive what they think they know while always being aware that it just might not be so. It’s just faith that tests well.
“the Creator” != White Conservative Christian God…..or……Tea Party Jesus either.
:)
Team R has indulged in a very very inept foray into identity politics and it’s “white Christians” what get to take it on the chin for it. They’re seen as antipodal to blacks and gays, i.e., “civil rights,” and they don’t work terribly hard to slip that noose.
‘feets, you’re repeating what proggs think of US, and how they frame us, as if we had any control over their tactics.
Maybe concentrate on who we actually are instead of how the enemy perceieves us. They will think and say what they want regardless of who we are, and the more we strive to take away their power, the more they’ll demonize us.
Doesn’t mean we’re doing something wrong. Sometimes it means just the opposite.
dicentra that is admirably martyry I think but you are not like the legislate the bible lifeydoodle tribe what Mr. Tebow hangs with no matter how much you want to represent…
and there is a very real phenomenon where stupid and or Jesusy “hicks” like Palin are very alienating to many of your professionals and many of your hispanics, and many of your “the gays,” and many of your people what just generally have self-respect and like to be well thought-of.
These alienatey ones are more front and center of Team R than ever before, and I think we both know why that is. It’s because of Sarah Palin. She’s been quite the disaster I think. She’s a one-woman transmogrifier what turns the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties into white trash and quite probably racist trailer park revival hootenannies.
Team R is what? Repellent. And it’s not just oh I don’t really agree with this or that, Team R a laughable joke to people, and talking to them about voting Team R is no different than suggesting we all go do a little snake dance back behind the Trader Joes.
I see it a lot here in proggville. Team R simply doesn’t have a story to tell these people. This is why Team R is increasingly white and Christian and southern.
There’s no sense being in denial about the hugeness of the Fail.
Let’s revisit #725.
Team R is simply showing no sign of seriousness.
This is just embarrassing.
sorry I meant to say This is just embarrassing… I wanted to punch the is for added impact so just pretend
RTO, in a word, bullshytt.
Science is selfcorrecting.
Faith is belief without evidence.
Experiment is evidence.
Progressive-ism is belief in spite of, in denial of, all evidence.
oh. Team R a *is* laughable joke to people I mean
you know what I mean
dicentra at #772 we have much common ground there I think, a lot much
You are confusing where you are with where everyone else is. Here in Texas, it is very hard to find the Progressives (outside Austin and the Rio Grande Valley) and I could make many of the same statments about Team D.
crap… should be…
She’s a one-woman transmogrifier what turns *perceptions of* the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties into white trash and quite probably racist trailer park revival hootenannies.
RTO do you believe in the separation of church and state?
Or do you think we should have an islamic style theocracy in America?
Right but Texas is getting more purpley I think, RTO, not more redder.
And Team R is very cavalier about the hispanic vote, which will be a problem sooner rather than later.
Repetition is not argument, Nishi. You’ll never persuade anyone that way.
Just once, support your bloody position.
Feynman agrees with me. Not with you.
Science is the constant testing not only of the intuitions,
Bill Nye the Science Guy said that science is the art of taking measurements.
Of course, he’s totally DOWN with AGW, even to the point of defending the CRU crowd when they hid their data.
‘feets. Look at Nishi’s answers to me. Please show me where she engaged my arguments at any point instead of merely repeating what she said before.
Yeah, because that Palin sure is a Jesusy hick, isn’t she? It’s like all the time, she’s all “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!” So much you could quote her repeatedly, right? About the Jesus?
Because that would justify your bigotry and your, if I daresay, hate. Which would be helpful to you, right?
you are not like the legislate the bible lifeydoodle tribe what Mr. Tebow hangs with no matter how much you want to represent…
I’m against abortion and gay marriage, ‘feets. The whole nine yards. Sorry if your past respect for me was based on thinking I wasn’t who I was.
what just generally have self-respect and like to be well thought-of.
Having self-respect and wanting to be well thought-of are diametrically opposite things. Self-respect means you’re OK with who you are no matter what people say. Wanting to be well thought-of means being in thrall to public opinion. It means you are shallow and superficial and also think that what people think of others is tantamount to reality.
Geez, feets. which one are you?
I think you lack any imagination to assume that the false dichotomy you present is all that is possible.
We’ve tested that many times, and the evidence of the experimentation is consistent, you lack any imagination at all. So the preceeeding paragraph has only served to confuse you.
So please, just restate your comment and let’s be done with it.
Pretending for a moment that you can comprehend, what difference does it make what I beleive? That’s just faith and irrationality. Might as well as me how I feel about it.
also dicentra I don’t think I’m taking my cues from leftistical ones… there’s lots of crap these Team R pansies are voting for what the leftists have no problem with, but I do, and I would even if Team R wasn’t douchey and gay…
that whole housing credit and cash for clunkers…
anyone what voted for that is gay. For all time forever gay gay gay.
If you think Texas is gettign more purple, you haven’t spent enough time here recently.
I am kaleidoscopically shallow and nuanced dicentra.
I’m in marketing.
Just remember in 2012, ‘feets, when you’re voting Obama, he really doesn’t like teh gheys. They’ll probably be helping with some reminding on that if the Reich-wing hate groups don’t buy up all the ad time.
‘feets
Is Team R alienating people, or is the leftist characterization of Team R what is doing the alienating?
I don’t think I’m taking my cues from leftistical one
All you talk about is how we’re perceived by the left. As if their mockery of us were based on something we are doing wrong.
I don’t like the GOP at all. They’re as moronic as they come.
But as Darleen said, you worry about the people busting down your door, not the peeps in the house what leave the seat up.
She’s a one-woman transmogrifier what turns the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties into white trash and quite probably racist trailer park revival hootenannies.
happyfeet
you should get your pot from a dispensary … I think the street stuff you’re buying is laced with pcp
“Please show me where she engaged my arguments”
just tell me my faith di.
if i have proselytized here it can’t be that difficult. :)
“Feynman agrees with me. Not with you.”
lawl.
i don’t think so.
For example, string theory is not science…..it isn’t proven….yet.
unproven hypotheses are not science…yet.
;)
Having self-respect and wanting to be well thought-of are diametrically opposite things.
not true… your vantage is that of a political person, but most Americans are Jon Stewart political.
Politics has a heavy branding component now, and if that’s not the takeaway to how a no-experience-having piece of shit like Barack Obama is right now defiling our Oval Office then I don’t think we’ve learned very much.
It’s also the takeaway of how Sarah Palin made 13 million dollars bailing on her one respectable job and taking her completely void of purpose show on the road.
We are not a proud people, we Americans. We’ll wear whatever t-shirt gets us laid.
Pablo I would never vote for Obama. I am staunch and also I heart my little country.
I do not heart my little country’s government. We are estranged.
c’mon RTO…engage.
don’t pretend you didnt hear me.
:)
Listen to dicentra, Darleen. She knows what a train-wreck Team R is.
I just find it more incredibly alarminger than she does I think and tell you what, there is no hope without change.
nishi is right about that.
I hope we’ve learned that branding our way into leadership is pretty frigging stupid and that we ought to look at the math and who’s lying about stuff instead of focusing on the shiny people.
LOOK! A HOOTCHIE!
Obama/Biden 2012 FTW!!!
Tea Party Jesus
What the hell are you talking about? Tea Party Jesus exists only in your head.
Palin are very alienating to many of your professionals and many of your hispanics
I’m Hispanic. Palin is not alienating to me. In fact, Palin was the ONLY reason I voted for the Republican ticket in 2008.
RTO do you believe in the separation of church and state?
Or do you think we should have an islamic style theocracy in America?
What a stupid question.
Law of the Excluded Middle, anyone?
oh. Well if Mike votes for Team R then every hispanic will vote for Team R, especially if Sarah Palin is the nominee, and there’s no problem.
Shut my mouf.
Uh, no. nishi, unless she’s changed her position since I last hammered her, thinks there’s no hope at all for liberty and that she’s kewl enough to embrace the suck.
She’s already got all the change she needs plus Hope!
She won, bitches.
gazm!
((( ¦o) >
Do members of Team Big D get complimentary smoked chicken enchiladas?
Depends on what type of booze you bring to the team meetings.
Single malt – unlimited enchiladas.
It’s a tier system after that. I’ll give it some thought.
Oh, you say that now, ‘feets. But you’re growing in office. We’ve been witness.
Just suppose Sarah Palin were to get the GOP nod. Bros before hos, dude. You know what you’d do.
oh. Well if nishi’s right it won’t matter, will it? So we’ll have to proceed from the assumption that she’s wrong about the death of the liberty.
I hope she’s wrong cause I’m a big liberty fan.
So Science isn’t about testing and making hypotheses. Interesting (by which I mean wrong and deluded) perspective.
Just suppose Sarah Palin were to get the GOP nod.
That’s mean we’re supposed to keep that in the realm of the unthinkable so I don’t have an episode.
Can you imagine?
I need a drink brb.
You don’t know how to engage. I already replied to this article of moronity so the ball is in your court.
You know, nishi worked on the Obama campaign, ‘feets. You know what to do, little buddy.
yup….there is controversy over whether mathematics is science.
That is why we say SBH, Social Brain Hypothesis….instead of Social Brain Theory.
We only have a lot of hypotheses and little empirical data…..so far.
;)
You don’t have your finger on the pulse of the “Hispanic” vote either Feet.
“science is belief supported by evidence.”
AGW? CRU e-mails? Hanson’s shameless “conditioning” of data? Evidence?
Please RTO….the separation of church and state?
answer?
nishi is a passionate and involved person Mr. Pablo… she is the change she was waiting for.
I am not the change I am waiting for and Sarah Palin definitely definitely is not the change I am waiting for.
I feel sick.
TrollHammer™ means never having to pretend you didn’t hear someone.
Jesus loves you, SBP. Me too.
Holy shiite.
I leave for a day or so and this is what happens?
I care not for what nishi thinks of me or mine, because:
1) You call that thinking?
and
2) The nitwit is a serial liar, a serial misrepresenter, and woefully deficient in the reading comprehension department, so whatever conclusions she’s arriving at are nearly guaranteed to be faulty.
I remember a certain Dr. Demento that was also a passionate and involved person. Do not want.
Oh. HTML fail.
You may feel free to ask me what I think (opinion) and what I know (facts). What I feel and what I believe, however, are none of your business.
You may now feel free to restate the question in a proper format, and while you’re at it you might take the opportunity to walk back the falacy you have presented.
Dr. Demento has a much higher value in today’s society than the nitwitted one.
3) Griefer, self-proclaimed. You might as well argue with this monstrosity.
I was referring to SWSNBN, Slart. The other Dr. Demento is the shizzle.
Bob Reed, I’m with Dr. Manzi on GW.
You can read here.
Looking at my outlook calendar for tomorrow has 3-4PM “Marketing Sync.” There’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back. Now that you know HF you know why. The only thing worse than a marketing meeting is a meeting with legal.
Marketing = bunch of shit that we thought up, but will never, in a million years, work. Now, go sell it!
#785 happyfeet:
She’s a one-woman transmogrifier what turns *perceptions of* the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties into white trash and quite probably racist trailer park revival hootenannies.
And I have no fucking idea what you just wrote. Perhaps you could try communuicating in English as most Americans understand it at this time?
Or is that request too much for you to do – or, perhaps actually communicating in English as most Americans understand it would be to reveal your bigotry to anyone who is (a) a social con; or (b) a Christian – not a member of the cold mainstream dying protestant type Christians?
I am an Episcopalian – and if you want to find mainstream cold dying protestant Christianity, just stop by any of my denomination’s churches. You will find a lot of social justice, but little actual gospel. And I assure you the god-botherers will be well-groomed, well-dressed, and well-mannered.
Hook me up, RTO.
Linkage.
Yeah feet. She’s a fucking genius. Her powers of persuasion, perception, and rhetoric are staggering. So glad to have her around to point me in the right direction.
kk
RTO what do you THINK about the separation of church and state GIVEN the apriori data that Sarah Palin SAID she rejects the separation of church and state in front of several hundred witnesses?
“It’s because of Sarah Palin. She’s been quite the disaster I think. She’s a one-woman transmogrifier what turns the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties into white trash and quite probably racist trailer park revival hootenannies.”
Palin changes millions of grass roots protesters into trashy racists?
Happyfeet, I’m done caring what you have to say. You have truly reached nishi level absurdness, and to me, irrelevance.
You’ve become a troll, dude.
I’ll drink to the happyfeet that used to be, yet is no more.
Well if Mike votes for Team R then every hispanic will vote for Team R
The hispanic vote is not monolithic – never has been.
#789 dicentra:
nishi is a TTP – a griefer. Haps is taken with her.
Figure that out as you will – I know most of us – including our host – has figured out both nishi/matoko/kate and happyfeet.
What I regret is that haps turned out to be such a religious bigot.
nishi, global warming is a gay bridge too gay far I think.
Hi RTO I am a Lutheran and I have a bracelet. It is by His grace alone that I might enter the kingdom of heaven.
I like Christians they are salt of the earth. Both of my siblings of which I have two are presidents of their congregations. Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so.
But c’mon.
Totally unrelated to the governance of our little country.
Sarah Palin SAID she rejects the separation of church and state in front of several hundred witnesses?
Lie.
oops sorry that was Hi Mikey, supposed to be
Please…look at me!!!!!!!
griefer madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lulz…emoticon…lol…blech…
lee I miswrote that it was supposed to say that Sarah Palin turns *perceptions of* the wonderful and for reals grassrootsy Tea Parties
truth
LOUISVILLE, KY. (AP) – Sarah Palin spoke to a crowd of about 16,000 attending an evangelical Christian women’s conference in Louisville Friday night.
The Courier-Journal reports the 2008 Republican candidate for vice president mixed stories of personal struggles and calls for women to be good mothers and good citizens with criticism of President Barack Obama – although she did not mention him by name.
Palin asked the women to provide a “prayer shield” to strengthen her against what she said was “deception” in the media.
She asserted that America needs to get back to its Christian roots and rejected any notion that “God should be separated from the state.”
haha, my bad….several THOUSAND witnesses.
she’s a menace
Well, WTF! You are all a bunch of hatey haters what hate. The hateyness comes out with your love of the haters. Oh my friend G is here with the tasty snacks have to go.
Whatever. You just keep trying to organize a witch burning.
I’ll sit over there and roll my eyes at you.
“For example, string theory is not science…..it isn’t proven….yet.
unproven hypotheses are not science…yet.”
Well, I mean, I’m pretty sure that my theory of evolution is correct. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence to allude to it’s validity.
Actual data? Er, um, not exactly.
She’s said as much here on prior threads. I wasn’t paying attention; she’s changed her thinking in this regard?
You’re going to have to give me a certain amount of leeway, using “thinking” as a descriptor for what goes into nishi’s word salads.
WTF?
“God should be separated from the state.”
God ? religion
You lie.
Someone thinks that God is a church.
Someone…well, should learn to think better.
Interestingly one of my ancestors was burnt as a witch…by christians.
:)
Well if Mike votes for Team R then every hispanic will vote for Team R
geez, it is really sad to see someone so completely ruled by their little head
Interestingly one of my ancestors was burnt as a witch…by christians.
oh yeah, we believe that. Yes we do. Pinky swear! lawl
I don’t want to burn witches. I want to rebuild Team R from the ground up around precepts of individual liberty and fiscal responsibility.
The Team R Sarah Palin is working the corner for is not a Team what gives a flip about the individual anymore, and I don’t trust it at all fiscally either.
It is crap. I deserve better. We all do.
The odds of someone whose ancestry is Christian having one of those ancestors wronged by Christians is pretty high. My ancestors were serially persecuted by Protestants.
I BLAME ALL CHRISTIANS! THEY ARE TEH SUCK!
You are a known serial liar nishi. I don’t believe any aunt of yours was burned by Christians.
lawl, Slart….lets get Mr. Intentionalism in here.
What do you think Palin meant, Jeff?
I think she was talking about her personal Jesus-take-the-wheel-christian-god.
Don’t you?
I think I may or may not agree depending on the particulars. As a bonus: I know that she’s on solid ground legaly and historically, despite the recent leftist trend. I also know that she’s far from the first one to articulate such a position which makes me wonder why it matters that Palin said it at all.
The devil, as ever, is in the details, though.
It’s James Avery, Slarticus. Only really good Christians can wear them. You can probably get one if you want.
Mr. Intentionalism might just refer you to the Intender.
But you have not exactly betrayed anything other than misconception, here, where Intentionalism is concerned. Find another, better bluff.
And yet you insist on invoking it almost as much as the fake muslimah griefer. What’s up with that? What’s up with the WHITE Xtians that are dying out?
OBAMA/FRANK 2016!
“…your vantage is that of a political person, but most Americans are Jon Stewart political.”
I dunno happy,
You might be basing that opinion on college kids and L.A. hipsters. I would posit that O’Reilly’s or Beck’s ratings are higher than Jon Stewart’s. And, I think the burgeoning Tea-Partiers indicate that the number of sound-bite, low information, and low involvement voters may be waning-at least for now.
People who are basing their worldview on Stewart’s clown-shoed caricature of reality, and taking “the Daily show” as any more than an extended smarmy stand-up routine, are kind of leaning towards confirmed cretin-hood.
But, hey, they may be well respected in certain circles.
What do you think Palin meant, Jeff?
Palin meant what she said. Nearly everyone here understands that as well as the fact that God and church are not the same thing.
#842 happyfeet:
Eh.
You took up with the griefer that would have killed my nephew if she was in charge – and would do so if she ever gets in charge. You are all hip with someone that wants to breed humans like livestock.
Don’t see much liberty or rights of man in any of that. Like our host here – I am through with that; and I am through because NMK’s ideas always result with humans being slaughtered (In Our Newest Facilities!) to promote the greater good of The Great Vision.
And somehow, the Great Visionary rarely ends up on the sharp end of the vision. At least how the visionary imagines it.
I do not want. I don’t have a fish on my car, either.
Yeah, that Alaskan lady that hunts and kills her own food sure could learn a few things about individualism from a Valley marketing plebe with a boner for a eugenecist.
Oh. Feeding the griefer = bad, even when I’m making fun of it.
Time to read for a while, then fall into an exercise-induced coma.
Here dicentra….i’ll help you out.
ima medlevhi sufi.
we dont proselytize.
neither do the jews.
Did you know that “In God We trust is on my cash money?
I bet they put that on there the day liberty died in this country.
griefer madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said.
Mikey nishi is not a killer I don’t think. You are thinking the worst of her. And I don’t think she’s as extreme as all that, but even if she is, she’s still entitled to a seat at the table of the ideas. That’s the commitment America makes.
But I guarantee you she wouldn’t kill your nephew.
nishi would you kill Mikey’s nephew?
Where in the Constitution is the seperation of church and state?
Kill him? Maybe not. Sterlizing him and his parents, however….
Hunting??? Who cares? She hunts sometimes. Yay. This is part of that branding thing we were talking about. Hunting, we can work with. Hunting for food… we can’t work with that. That’s what poor people do.
It’s not aspirational. And Americans are a very very aspirational people.
It’s in Nishi’s head, right alongside Tea Party Jesus.
It’s James Avery, Slarticus. Only really good Christians can wear them. You can probably get one if you want.
from the site:
The Avery Look is nothing new. It has no pretense of being so. It tries to assimilate and reflect many cultures and the art of those cultures. One might say that The Avery Look is an attempt to embody an insight into all ages and periods of artistic achievement. It is difficult to define. However, some of the attributes and values from The Avery Look have grown into a company philosophy. Each piece of jewelry should pass the tests of Simplicity, Integrity, Meaning and Universality. These four “founding values” are deeply carved into wood planks hanging prominently on the solid stone walls of our present-day Design Studio. It’s a constant reminder of what we believe.
happyfeet, when you start shooting Xtians, I’ll come spit on your grave. You’re fucking insane.
it’s really neat stuff Darleen you should click around
neither do the jews.
says the Judenhass
Yeah, hf, eugenicists don’t intend to be killers, things happen that need to happen, that’s all…
Apparently you think “Team R” needs to be torn down and rebuilt, with the socons specifically excluded. Then your “Team R 2.0” get to be like the British Tories, ineffectual “me too” wimps who might talk a good line about the individual, but will never have any real power to advance anything resembling individual liberty.
Or in other words – Has Any One Told You To Go Fuck Off Today? No? Well Let Me Be The First!*
Fuck You; And Fuck Nishi The Wanna-Be Eliminationist Who Is Such A Cum-Slut She Will Take Allies From Wherever She Can Find Them.
*Nishi’s ideology would have my nephew dead – and before that I will say fuck you, fuck you – and that guy in the corner – fuck you.
Thank you and good night.
And all of you eliminationists and their supporters and cheerleaders – Go Fuck Yourselves.
All I know Spiny is right now Team R is looking like inauspicious.
That slate of candidates is effing sad.
Newt Gingrich??
The barrel, it has no bottom.
When, Mr. Individualism, was the last time you actually fed yourself?
I know, let’s do a focus group!
Bah.
what I see, hf, is that anyone can purchase the products.
pretty sure nishi’s not in danger of killing anyone, Mikey
Manzi doesn’t even address the CRU chicanery, nor Hanson’s blatant fudging of the data to support a hypothesis he was convinced of, a priori; as well as other exposed problems with the mathematical models, the alleged “evidence”, the conclusions drawn, and the overall methodology.
He want’s us to start from the assumption that AGW is real, when there is a strong possibility that it is a fatuous meta-narrative designed to empower statist and environmental extremists.
yes, Darleen, anyone can purchase the products. You’re gonna take to this e-commerce thing like a duck to water.
why it matters that Palin said it at all.
kk, RTO….I’m confuzzled though.
I thought we lived in a secular Republic and Palin seems to want her Own Personal Jesus to call the shots.
But perhaps I misunderstood what she said.
“pretty sure nishi’s not in danger of killing anyone, Mikey”
Sure.
“The man who sets dogs on concentration camp victims or fires his revolver into the back of their necks is evidently a brute; the intellectual who devises justifications for the brutality is harder to deal with, and far more sinister in the long run.”
– David Pryce-Jones
Hunting for food… we can’t work with that. That’s what poor people do.
It’s not aspirational. And Americans are a very very aspirational people.
Being self-sufficient is NOT inspirational?
move to Europe, hf…or at least Cananda. Your “staunchiness” has sprung a leak.
“But perhaps I misunderstood what she said.”
That can be pretty much gauranteed.
Now.
Where in the Constitution is the seperation of church and state?
bob, you should argue substance with Manzi on that thread then.
because Levin sure isn’t doing it.
go for it.
Dr. Manzi welcomes informed argument.
I have argued with him for 2 years at least.
<3
She’s made it abundantly clear that she is very much in favor of government policies that would indeed result in the deaths of the “imperfect”.
That IS what eugenics does, happyfeet.
nishi
you’re Judenhass and Christophobic so not only do you not understand the language spoken in church or temple, you want to make it an evil conspiracy.
Projection.
“I have argued with him for 2 years at least.”
And you understand him as wellas you understand Sarah Palin.
Now.
Where in the Constitution is the seperation of church and state?
It’s a simple question, you fascist twat.
Where in the Constitution is the seperation of church and state?
aspirational, Darleen…
please, work with me a little here.
Lazarus Long,
The Establishment Clause has been abused by “progressives” nearly as much as has the Commerce Clause.
I know that, you know that, Spiny.
I just want to hear what deep misunderstanding of the founding she wants to expose.
And Muslim. What a coinkydink!
hf
little difference … you think people providing for their own is somehow shameful, not a striving for great things
“aspirational”
little wonder you think nishi’s dream to see children decanted rather than nurtured in their mother’s own womb is “aspirational”.
y’all just don’t like nishi I think, Pablo
“She asserted that America needs to get back to its Christian roots and rejected any notion that ‘God should be separated from the state.’”
That doesn’t necessarily mean that the state should adopt any particular religion; but that perhaps there should not be such a campaign to impose a militant atheistic patina on a nation that had none prior.
The article quoted this out of context, so there may be a nuance that’s being missed; at least that’s the benefit of the doubt endlessly extended to team DS.
Maybe someone should ask her what she meant, have her clarify it.
“God should be separated from the state.”
How’s anybody going to do that to God anyhow? He too gets a say in the thing, presumably.
Darleen… when you want people to buy something, you sell them what people want to buy. That’s rule one.
People don’t want to be reduced to hunting for food. They want to buy it at Ralph’s, or – ooh – Gelson’s.
So you associate what you’re selling with what they want. You don’t talk about how the family can eat off one moose all winter. People don’t want to eat off one moose all winter. They don’t aspire to that.
“Like” doesn’t enter the equation. She’s a deluded nihilist, and the ideas she has promoted for a long time now are the kind that led to the worst sort of human behavior in the last century.
I’ve known her for a long time, longer than I’ve known anyone here. I’m so disappointed in what she’s become that I think happy thoughts about Jesus for SBP because he invented TrollHammer and I can avoid reading whatever she’s spewing today with it.
I used to think there was something there that might be worth nurturing. I was wrong. But don’t let that stop you. I think the two of would make the cutest abortions ever. You go, boy.
You didn’t misunderstand what she said. You misunderstand what it means, because you lack the historical perspective to do so. As such all your conclusions are wrong.
We do live in a secular Republic, but you don’t know what that means as a practical and historical matter.
I don’t agree that she’s a nazi, Spiny. That’s not the spirit of the thing. But if she’s a nazi, she’s a harmless and impotent one but one with very cogent thoughts on certain aspects of how Team R sucks what could be profitably explored.
My bum makes poo!
Cogent, wouldn’t you say?
“How’s anybody going to do that to God anyhow? He too gets a say in the thing, presumably.”
Easy, you reject him. It’s a free will deal. Israel spent 40 years wandering in the desert because they separated themselves from God.
The point, and I thought it was obvious, though maybe not, is that God too has a will and if He wills his attachment to the country, who’s going to stop him or separate him off? Don’t see how that’s possible, from a human standpoint.
“Mikey nishi is not a killer I don’t think. You are thinking the worst of her. And I don’t think she’s as extreme as all that, but even if she is, she’s still entitled to a seat at the table of the ideas.”
But white Christians aren’t? Because of the fairness.
Pablo I don’t even like abortions. I think it’s grisly and creepy to rip up the little babies.
But women can do that if they want. It’s their call. It’s not my call. And it’s not government’s job to save the fetuses. I thought Team Catholic was on the case. Not government. Especially not our gay one. Our gay-assed sick little government functions best in highly structured environments with limited activities I think.
Wait! I’ve got it! Hey nishi, tell us what’s up, you stupid fucking whore! Give us your ideas, you dumb cunt!
Am I getting this right, ‘feets? The embracing ideas thing?
“Hunting for food… we can’t work with that. That’s what poor people do.”
Maybe, try, that’s what self-sufficient, or self-reliant, people do. It sounds a lot like the America that was before the entitlement society was there.
They will aspire to it, feet. As soon as hunting is the only way any of us can aford to eat thanks to Ear Leader.
As for not liking Nishi–what’s to like?
Wait, it seems like there should be a STFU in there somewhere.
Pablo that borders on ill-mannered I think.
People don’t want to be reduced to hunting for food.
I’m glad you can speak for ALL people, fuckwit.
Some people choose to hunt for their own food and take pride in the endeavor. Like a gardener making a salad of the lettuce and heirloom tomatoes in their OWN GARDEN.
But grubbing about in the dirt to feed oneself??? OH THE SHAME!!
Someone needs to give our government a sippy cup and something to color.
God is love, not a kidnapper.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how it works. And your problem is? People who need to shut the fuck up, right?
right Darleen, how long did that self-sufficiency minimum economic footprint resolve last for you? It was a few months. Then you started craving tasty movie popcorn and Sandra Bullock movies as I remember.
Spies is the most self-sufficient one I think. Spies and Ric.
And it’s not government’s job to save the fetuses
and another little check mark for Barry’s stance that a baby born alive IN SPITE of an abortion should be left in a linen closet to die.
Accidental life should be snuffed out at the earliest opportunity.
Wash those hands, happypilate
OK, it’s Reader Poll time. Anyone who thinks happyfeet has any business condemning me for aping his all too regular behavior raise your hands in the air like you just don’t care.
She’s a fringe leftist, hf, and nothing Team R does would ever be looked on kindly by her, except disappear utterly. No matter how “cogent” you think her thoughts might be.
Note: the Nazis were eugenicists, but not all eugenicists are Nazis. We here in the US (and most other Western countries) have had a very prominent eugenics movement. Woodrow Wilson was a big fan… and they haven’t all gone away.
I’m not about the snuffing I don’t think cause if I found a little baby in a closet, I would get very excited.
As a hunter, I am horrified at the idea of not eating what you kill.
It’s disrespectful, wasteful, and cruel.
She’s a neat person, Spiny. She has many thoughts ahead of her to think, and I bet she surprises you at times, if you’ll let her.
movie popcorn gives me indigestion … I don’t indulge
and taking my extra tomatoes to work gets me other produce in exchange from co-workers. Win-win.
are you upset I go to the movies or that I dared to enjoy “The Blind Side” where the White Christians [cue the sound of horses screaming] were NOT evil vampires?
there’s hunting for food where you split it up among the guys, and there’s laying food up for the winter, lee.
Most Americans don’t want to lay the food up for winter. Me I think that would be neat. Go live up in Maine where Big D might live and hang about the place all winter, making do. Just you and the trusty pup and lots flannel things and really strong coffee and everything you never get to read when you’re in stupid Los Angeles.
God I would love that.
I just hate that studio Darleen cause they’re evil.
lots *of* flannel things I mean
I’m not about the snuffing
well, geez, don’t you think then that the government MAY INDEED have a vested interest in the well-being of fetuses?
The debate is over where the line is DRAWN, hap. That Nishi and her eugenicist, utero-phobe Proggie feminist fellow travelers like Marcotte and ilk think there should be NO line whatsoever is the unconscionably creepy and anti-human stance.
Isn’t vested interest something akin to ownership?
Since Nishi doesn’t like to link original sources, here is the 1 hour non-prompter Sahah Palin speech in Louisville to the Women of Joy Conference.
Her quote in #818 is from the Wikipedia article on Science. Cut and paste without attribution again. The below is also from the same page.
I seem to detect some “faith” involved at the bedrock of it all. But I’m sorta all bothery at times.
Sarah, a typo.
don’t you think then that the government MAY INDEED have a vested interest in the well-being of fetuses?
not an interest they wouldn’t gay up and get all stupid with… the American government is shit, Darleen. Evil, evil shit. Have you not been paying attention?
nishi can have her ideas however she wants… here eugenical ideas are irrelevant to the straits our little country finds itself, for now anyway. Who bloody cares what her evil schemes are or aren’t? She knows Team R is effed up, and I appreciate her thoughts on that subject, just as I appreciate many of yours.
And she knows other things besides.
Aren’t you curious why she thinks the global warming fraud is worth a push?
I am.
She’s been scary right about too many things to ignore.
Isn’t vested interest something akin to ownership?
oh fuck it. If the legitimate function of the government is to secure and protect their rights of its citizens then it is part of the government’s duties to protect and secure the rights of even its tiniest and most helpless citizens.
shall I write it out again in crayon for you?
the American government is shit, Darleen. Evil, evil shit
THEN GET THE HELL OFF MY COUNTRY.
I love our little country Darleen.
“there’s hunting for food where you split it up among the guys, and there’s laying food up for the winter, lee.”
Spoken like someone that’s never been hunting in his life.
Protecting rights is one thing, possessing a vested interest is another. That’s all. I don’t know what the crayon crack is about though. How these relationships stand just seems to me to be pretty important to keep clear, like those questions of who works for whom where it comes to the Representatives and their constituents. Sometimes it seems as though the Representatives get confused on that issue.
I love our little country Darleen.
Yeah, like OJ loved Nicole.
you can only fill up the deep freeze so far, really
I hunted the deers and the quail and the javelina but the javelina thing didn’t really work out.
sdferr knows what the phrase “vested interest” mean. If you’re going to be pissed, be pissed at the right people.
mean=means
I don’t know what the crayon crack is about though
because after all this time, after all I’ve written about the relationship between a citizen and the government and what the legitimate role of government IS that you want to IGNORE all that to play interpretation games with my use of “vested” (which I used as in “unconditional interest”) is decidedly annoying.
YOU KNOW I don’t ever mean that the government “owns” its citizens. It DOES have an unconditional duty to secure and protect our rights.
argh!
Darleen what do you call the shocking indebtedness your evil government has shackled your grandbabies to in just the past year?
Is it an oopsie?
Is it really quite unfortunate?
Or is it fucking evil?
I vote really really fucking evil. Up there with the great evil governments of all time, if you were to take a peek at the ensuing misery.
And all of you eliminationists and their supporters and cheerleaders – Go Fuck Yourselves.
Pretty sure that wins the thread.
Out damn sock!
Don’t use it then Darleen. What can I say? Except that such terminology is exactly the sort of thing Juan Williams would say and mean sincerely, like the government fucking owns you and yours, to do with as it pleases.
“…because after all this time, after all I’ve written…”
People do that shit to me damn near everyday, so you have my sympathies on that score anyhow.
Darleen what do you call the shocking indebtedness your evil government has shackled your grandbabies to in just the past year?
I call it the abject failure of the people WE elected to abide by the Constitution. WE get the government we deserve.
Many of the PEOPLE in it are acting in evil ways. But basics of our form of government, flawed though they may be, are still the best in the world.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” Winston Churchill
But basics of our form of government, flawed though they may be, are still the best in the world.
lol. They were at one time. The basics were hacked.
Don’t use it then Darleen.
Sure. I’ll remember not to use “niggardly” either. Cause of the “misinterpretation”.
There are charts.
They were at one time
ok…where is it better, hf? and why haven’t you moved there?
“Sure. I’ll remember not to use “niggardly” either. Cause of the “misinterpretation”.”
So I misinterpreted because I asked a question to get at what you meant? Damn. That’s a decidedly strict measuring stick you’ve got there.
Why don’t you hang around and tell the Barack Obama feckless Team R Team Dirty Socialist legacy slaves how wondermous among all nations their oppressive piece of shit government is Darleen?
I bet they’ll find that cheering.
evil stupid shit has consequences
“Don’t use it then Darleen. What can I say? ”
Seems vested can mean protected by law.
You quibble in vain.
No sdferr..you just told me NOT TO USE the phrase.
Inspite of knowing exactly where I have always been coming from.
I’ll just strike “vested” off my synonym list for “fully and unconditionally guaranteed”.
Australia and Canada both aren’t in the business of using a ruinous debt to dehumanize and enslave their people, Darleen.
There will be a lucky handful what are permitted asylum I imagine, but it will be closely regulated.
So, ‘feets, nishi, have you managed to make sure God is properly interred around these here parts yet ?
I found this American Thinker piece that fits in with the discussion here. There’ve been centuries of shovel-ready philosophers who’ve attempted to bury God…
Without good and evil, there’s no basis for religion, no need for a ‘god’. And the Left seized on these philosophies of godlessness and filled the vacuum where good and evil once existed with their own, inner, personal God of Self. We watch ’em carrying the banners of Marx and Nietzsche today, right in front of us, daring us to speak out, calling us ‘Nazis’ if we do, and telling us it’s best to just shut up and let them parade their progressiveness forward and on to a bright and shiny future.
Well, no; I for one, won’t shut up.
oh. I know I’m not I’m not striking “harridan” off my list any time soon.
Danger linked that serr8d.
Why do you think I hate God?
God and me, we’re good.
“You quibble in vain.”
Oh? So there’s no question whether “vested interest” is commonly used to speak of something akin to ownership?
If you want to frame the Battle as Jesusy ones vs. progressives, serr8d, you’ve just handed them the keys to the kingdom.
That’s really sort of nishi’s point, isn’t it?
Before that, Darleen, you said “oh fuck it” and “shall I write it out again in crayon for you?”
In response to, “Isn’t vested interest something akin to ownership?”
You couldn’t have been more condescending.
I missed the Danger link, sorry. I’ve been yardworking today. It’s an ongoing struggle, me and the yards.
it was a day or two ago…
I think Marxism is really really awful, by the way.
Oh. Must’ve been on another thread, ‘feets. Danger hasn’t posted on this one today. I did find where nishi was a dangerous dog who might kill someone though… )
This thread is epic; I only have one thing to say, Jesus was at a Tea Party?!
he was cheaper than Sarah Palin
I think, ‘feets, you would just have God die away so Christians would just shut up about gays and abortion. That’s a lot of Marx and Nietzsche and maybe Holden Caulfield. All of those were seen with shovels at various times.
‘feets, while you’re considering whether or not to cross “harridan” off the list, consider striking “pet gay” (#713).
That’s a dick move, chief.
I only wish they would speak of these things through a medium other than government and Team R. I doubt Mama Tebow and her spawn would have bothered me near as much if Sarah Palin hadn’t claimed their righteous message on behalf of Team R. It would have just been a silly waste of money of little consequence.
I’m acting like a hall monitor all of a sudden.
Ack. Later, all.
“Oh? So there’s no question whether “vested interest” is commonly used to speak of something akin to ownership?”
Oh, well I didn’t have any trouble catching her drift.
Quibble away.
I knew it was a dick move when I made it I was looking to make a dick move cause she makes them too. We just have that kind of relationship. At the end of the day she’s still on Team Not Dirty Socialist with me.
well, that’s not true… there was something unbelievably cheesy and manipulative about the hah hah hah we didn’t talk about teh fetuses and it was really obnoxious to see right-side bloggers to a man act like it was some kind of shmyloamoianan surprise twist ending.
Well that’s probably because you’re simply much smarter than I am Lee. I still don’t think I’m quibbling though, for the reasons stated.
Yeah, I doubt you really were confused about whether Darleen was speaking about ownership of the children, and question the sincerity of your claim to inferior intelligence.
where’s bh?
You’re a devious sort with your word play Lee. I say “isn’t that something akin to ownership” which you turn into “ownership of the children”.
Why is that? Why, I mean, do you insist on turning what I do say aside and making something else I don’t say in its place?
“Team R”, ‘feets? you really want to know “Team R”?
I read the whole thing.
“well, geez, don’t you think then that the government MAY INDEED have a vested interest in the well-being of fetuses?”
“Isn’t vested interest something akin to ownership?”
“I doubt you really were confused about whether Darleen was speaking about ownership of the children”
How is my statement turning what you do say aside and making something else you don’t say in its place?
“Team R” requires a population who has the backbone to be “Team R”. What we have today are maybe enough good people to be “Mini-Team R”, and the rest are, like the guy laments, Twits.
well, yeah… this is partly why we’re doomed, no?
This thread is epic; I only have one thing to say, Jesus was at a Tea Party?!
Evidently so. I wonder if Mohammed, Lao Tzu, Sea-Man, Buddha and the other Super Best Friends were there.
And Sarah Palin still rules. No one can drive the libtwits up the wall quite the way that she can. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth when she’s elected president in 2012.
Mike is now just stirring up trouble I think.
I wish I could be comment number 1000, but doing it now would be too artificial. Some lucky soul will get there in the A.M.
I don’t know, cranky, I just tried and failed.
Just because I can.
1000!
PW counts comments using commas! But we need commas down here too.
Racist.Xtian.Just not all that many behind her. I’d guess she’s saving the best ones for last. Given that she’s planning on living forever, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for anything of quality, if I were you.
Oh, and I vote Pablo for thread-winner with this:
I think she “meant” that the “wall of separation” is not a constitutional mandate, but rather the whim of a judge.
And she’d be right.
Plus it’s always super-helpful when Sarah Palin declaims about the church and state issues. People go yeah that’s what I always thought too but I didn’t know how to say it like that.
It would be more helpful if she got hit by a truck. Or if somebody cut out her bitch tongue.
Helpfulness is what it’s all about. That, and brandings.
Rather than trying to change that, let’s just pretend it’s the state of nature and proceed from there.
there is nothing wrong with postulating that a laser-like focus on fiscal responsibility and individual liberties and a downplaying of social con issues might could be what is maximally of help in this political cycle plus my one postulate is lonely
Wow. Over 1000 posts. Well, if anyone reads this, I recommend Jeff read (if he hasn’t) Shelby Steele’s White Guilt stuff. Need not be a whole damn book, you can get a good jist from essays he’s written about it.
The key being beyond the Orwellian games they play with the language and identity politics, racial minorities have become a moral propriety.
All white = nazi, evil. Lacking any minorities = lacking any moral virtue. The ID groups are not just privledged as the ones who decide meaning and intent but as the holders of moral authority and legitimacy.
For which they’re exploited. You’re given a seat at the table in AA fashion not for anything you’ve done, but because the presence of your skin color lends morale credibility and shields from sin like something of a Catholic indulgence.
We could look at what Jefferson was actually writing about when he spoke of separation of church and state, but that’d be sooooo 1802. It is so much more hip & inventive to make up what he must have been thinking and then stretch-fit it so that it accessorizes well with the rest of our political needs.
What Jefferson wasn’t saying is anything like “our politicians should not harbor religious beliefs”. What he was saying was, instead, that a) The state should not have a favorite church, and b) churches that try to sway the state to have a favorite church are going to be shit out of luck, as far as he is concerned.
Separation of church and state != making absolutely everyone in government indistinguishable from atheists.
Is this radio person still on the air?
I change the skin color of the targets, then imagine the reaction had he said that about a black kid.
happyfeet said “there is nothing wrong with postulating that a laser-like focus on fiscal responsibility and individual liberties and a downplaying of social con issues might could be what is maximally of help in this political cycle plus my one postulate is lonely.”
Were that actually true, there’d be far more Libertarians in office… but why drag reality into the conversation.
Sort of, but it also a case of minorities boycotting the Republican Party, severely condemning and ostracizing other minorities that violate the boycott, then citing the absence of minorities as proof of segregationalism and racism on the part of the Republicans.
As for the rest of this mess, I have been busy and have just skimmed bits of it, but it seems like a good place to point out what the Framers actually intended was Freedom Of Religion, not Freedom From Religion.
Libertarians are a trainwreck of pot and licentiousness and worse they’re poor.
‘feets. Please. You do realize that we, of the littlest Team R, cannot choose which particular issue gets brought up and hammered by our foes, don’t you? I remind you that we are facing a foe skilled in the Alinsky, and Rule #8 is “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Which means, if it seems we’re getting traction with laser-like focus on, say, financial issues, then the focus will change; because of Rule #7 “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”. It takes only a news headline to defocus to another, foe-friendlier, topic; using the Rham Corollary “Never let a serious crisis go to waste.” A good right-now example is the passage of the Arizona illegal roundup law. We see Global Warmalism (a weakening issue for Obama) tabled and his next moocher-vote-attractor “Immigration Reform” come to the forefront.
If there is any sign of weakness in Team Little R, people like Nishi &c. find cracks in (your) armor, well, they are having fun, right? That’s Rule #6 “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” And I think the Nishbots and their ilk like throwing Tebow out at people like you, just to watch you die.
You say that like its a bad thing.
It would be funny if Tebow would skull this radio guy with a pass, but since he does not have that good of an arm, it might not hurt him enough.
Sarah Palin decided to blibber-blabber about the unholy wall separating government and religion all on her own, Mr. serr8d. And it was Mr. Jeff what wanted to talk about the viciously persecuted Tebow lad.
I just want to talk about the indiviudal liberties and the fiscal responsibilities. Team R wants to distract people from that as often as not.
It’s cosmically wrong.
sicksicksick
I blame the quitting smoking, introducing a terrible imbalance to the world.
And calling someone a Nazi because he is glad his mother didn’t abort him apparently doesn’t have anything to do with individual liberties.
I love libertarians Mr. Moe they just aren’t a cogent political force all by themselves I don’t think.
the quitting smoking is a never-ending hell Mr. sdferr…
oh how I suffer
they won, so you should suffer…
Chiantix and Wellbutrin manage to make me quite unpleasant.
wait a minute. Did you just say “Team R wants to distract” and mean it? Review the Rules. We are not running the distractions, we are responding to the attacks. If we ignore the Nazi-chirp of this radio guy, that’s tantamount to saying it’s OK. So, yes, we have to respond to these sorts of attacks. Responding doesn’t a distraction make.
no – Team R wants to pretend they give a shit about fiscal responsibility while voting to pay your down payment on your house or to give you monies for a BRAND NEW CAR like they were fucking Bob Barker or something except gayer.
It turns out the two go hand in hand, but not the way nitwit thinks that they do.
For instance, when Jefferson wrote his Altar of God letter, what he was trying to do was make it extremely clear that he was not going to allow any Church to exert undue influence on him to grant special standing to said Church. If he were to show favoritism, that would have taken us closer to a Church/State marriage.
But the fact that Jefferson made his oath on the Altar of God should make it very clear that he’s a religious wacko.
I can’t read a thousand comments, but why exactly is Tebow a “former” Heisman winner? Did they take it away for overt Christian activity? I had my Junior High perfect attendance award taken away last year when I got caught leaving Mass on Ash Wednesday. Struck from the roles and drummed out of the corps was I. If I’d skip a conference call for Jesus, what else would I do?
I’d like to see Palin’s thoughts on this, ‘feets, instead of AP’s condensation of what they may have been into a couple words. Kinda like how you just said that, if you catch my drift.
I think as a candidate Palin’s a deadend, but I’m not willing to cartoon her to make a point that doesn’t exist.
Mr. Howard I think the resources required to uncondense Sarah are very wasteful since she’s a political deadweight of no consequence to the future of Team R or our little country but for her burdensomeness I think.
It’s actually sort of unnecessary to belittle her as a candidate until she’s…well, an actual candidate.
#
Comment by sdferr on 4/24 @ 1:23 pm #
Soon as they hear of this, assuming they do, I’d expect Tebow’s teammates at Florida, guys like Spikes and Percy Harvin, to set this asshole sport-stalker straight. There’s no friend like a real friend to know what’s what.
Has anyone heard of this happening?
Hmmmm…that’s never happened
tofor me. But then I was smart enough not to get hooked up with a sub-prime mortgage. I LIVE the TANSTAAFL, baby.The Patriots drafted Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes, and Aaron Hernandez from the Florida Gators. Surely one of thse guys will stand up for Tebow.
Seen the other direction already JD, but what sports reporter will ask the question of one of Tebow’s teammates, with an intent to report the answer?
If we ignore the Nazi-chirp of this radio guy, that’s tantamount to saying it’s OK. So, yes, we have to respond to these sorts of attacks. Responding doesn’t a distraction make.
Now this is interesting. Is this an OUTLAW thing?
So say you’re running a campaign, do you agree to debate the 5% garnishing 3rd party guy, or ‘address his attacks’ in some fashion?
Sometimes you lend credence to or elevate an attack by responding to it as thought it were more worthy or more legitimate assault then it was.
I’m not saying it is so in this nazi radio guy case. I’m just saying.
That’s good advice, ‘feets.
Right?
I’m reliably told that the Boston jocks are primarily shock jocks, not sports guys, sort of a low rent Opie and Anthony. The nazi remark probably didn’t shock their audience in the least, as it’s in line with their shtick. Meh.
I think the Denver guy was more offensive and I hope Tebow learns to start asking people what kind of drugs they’re on when they go to stupid places like that.
yes it is good advice but to operationalize it Sarah has to stop being problematic and … errant.
She needs a function. A purpose. Right now she’s like a quasi-political Kim Kardashian. She can do better I think. She used to be a governor I heard.
Woooooossssssshhhhhhhhh……………….!!
You want to make a difference, ‘feets, how about you leap into political PR from marketing. And then work with Palin on her image problem. She can do better I think. She used to be a governor I heard.
Seems perfect.
I’m sending a resume out tomorrow but it’s another marketing thing.
“I’d like to see Palin’s thoughts on this, ‘feets, instead of AP’s condensation of what they may have been into a couple words.”
So here’s a transcript of the particular passage, found toward the end of Palin’s speech, at around 54:20 mins in:
political prosperity?
I’d say she probably knows of which she $peaks.
List of politicians, pundits and media figures who do not get payed for their advocacy:
Washington, Farewell:
And, same source:
List of things George Washington, not Sarah Palin, said:
1) “political prosperity”
Damn money grubber, no doubt. Running around chopping down other people’s cherry trees and selling the wood for profit. Warmongering, no doubt to gain a monopoly over the hardwood industry in the heavily forested and underdeveloped New World.
NO BLOOD FOR WOOD!
Mr. Washington would be ashamed of what a generally poor character our nation’s governance has attained quite apart from any religious deficiency I think.
He’d surely see the two as linked.
Mr. Washington would be ashamed of what a generally poor character our nation’s governance has attained quite apart from any religious deficiency I think.
So?
How is that not non-sequitar?
Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, Dick Durbin, Barbara Boxer, Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, Arlen Spector, the list is long, very long indeed. Of these he would no doubt be very ashamed. Of Sarah Palin? Not for one second.
meaning you can Jesus it up all day long in D.C. and your little country’s still going in the shitter, Mr. Entropy.
They didn’t have political spokesmodels in George’s day.
He would ask, “But what does it do?”
Well, progressive supermajorities historically do tend that way, yes.
Not if “Thou shalt not steal” was heeded, ‘feets. Or that coveting your neighbors’ stuff bit.
Same as it ever was: Classically liberal lightenroddery. For the principles thereof.
Lighteningrodding? Chuck us a bone here, ‘feets.
that is true about the stealing and the coveting
but many Jesusy R ones vote to steal and covet all the time they just think their shit don’t stink
Even Mr. Ryan tried to mug those poor AIG executives and their families.
meaning you can Jesus it up all day long in D.C. and your little country’s still going in the shitter, Mr. Entropy.
Yes, agreed, but that’s not really to do with what Washington said. You’ve subtly changed the subject. Washington never claimed that paying lip service to religious practices was an absolute guarantee of moral virtue.
He said the nation as a whole cannot act moral without adherance to religious guiding principles.
To wit: while having religion may not solve the problem, losing it will (in his opinion) make it’s solution altogether impossible.
Do you suppose revelation of the former (which he probably already new) would cause him to change his mind on the latter?
Percentage-wise, in your opinion, these comprise how much of the R?
Now, what percentage of the other viable parties have the same issue?
My prescription is the same, in both cases: cry bullshit, to the party in question, as required. Try to keep the complaining to other uninvolved citizenry to a minimum, because of the whiny thing.
Who can disagree with that, ‘feets?
Yet, that’d be them breaking those commandments, being anti-Jesusy.
They didn’t have political spokesmodels in George’s day.
He would ask, “But what does it do?”
Again, what has this to do with her views on religion, which started this?
Nothing.
You’re very fluid on the topic of Palin, all that is fixed is the conclusion. You can take practically anything she does or says about anything, and you’re opposed to it. And had she done the opposite, probably still.
It may not seem like you’re changing the subject to you because your goal appears to be to bash Palin. In which event, you’re remarkably on-topic.
They didn’t have those in Washington’s day? Like hell… Thomas Paine? What do they do? Excercise their speech about their views on government! But whatever.
Do you seriously suppose the existance of political pundits would cause Washington to change his views on the role of religion in society?
It may not seem like you’re changing the subject to you because your goal appears to be to bash Palin. In which event, you’re remarkably on-topic.
Yes. She is a threat to our little country. Team R only has one shot to snap our little country back to reality.
She’s not helping.
She’s a spokesmodel, remember? She’s not hurting, you’re not helping.
I am helpful and staunch, Pablo.
Team R isn’t giving me a lot to work with here.
And you want to focus on screeching about spokesmodels and football players while wringing your hands about what the progglodytes will say.
Find yourself a hairshirt and a nice quiet seat in the corner, would you?
You’d probably do better to target those who have chosen to play in the political arena, hf, over those who have chosen not to.
Yes. She is a threat to our little country.
Do you know what an ‘ad hominem’ is? Because you don’t even seem ashamed of it.
You’re all over that ‘politics of personal destruction’ stuff eh?
For the greater good, no doubt.
I think that between 1067 and 1069 you’re kinda done here, ‘feets.
I forgot the bearing false witness one. That’d be hella helpful to our polity.
“I am helpful and staunch, Pablo.”
That actually remains to be seen. Not that your intent isn’t to be helpful and staunch, but that knowing how things come out all in all is generally outside our grasp as human critters, being so damned small and ignorant of such things: indeed, this very doubtfulness about our powers plays some role in the whole believing in God’s powers deal to start with.
“Oh. Must’ve been on another thread, ‘feets. Danger hasn’t posted on this one today.”
Serr8d,
Correct, it was at the end of another recent thread and I’m glad you posted it. I was really hoping to get sdferr’s take on it. It’s tough being this many time zones away to make a timely point.
I think the fact that we both found that article noteworthy is noteworthy in itself;)
“…hoping to get sdferr’s take on it.”
In brief Danger, too short! Give us more!
I would like some Crown Royal in Mad Men they always have a nice shot of something just sitting there. I think we’ve lost something. Namely the ubiquitous Crown Royal.
That said I think people are not near horrified and or terrified enough about this crashingly ignominious end to the American experiment what is playing out in front of our eyes.
“That said I think people are not near horrified and or terrified enough about this crashingly ignominious end to the American experiment what is playing out in front of our eyes.”
Isn’t the fact that people aren’t (not near horrified and or terrified enough) closely bound to the reasons why the situation (ignominious end to the American experiment) has arisen in the first place? And to the extent that this is so, is the reason you are wont to say “doomed”?
And backward wise, to that discussion about education in the hands of government leading to bad things in that other thread? But if a proper education is the thing wanting, it’s sure hard to see the way out, not to say impossible.
Someone’s being a drama queen.
Still with the drama.
Truly bizarre, quittingsmokingfeets. You’d think that you’d just kicked a major drug addiction, or something.
Lots of comments in, but it looks like no one’s mentioned that Muhsin Muhammad is not a Muslim. IIRC, his parents went through a Muslim “phase” when he was a young child and changed his name. He himself, however, professes Christianity. He just never rechanged his name.
Mr. sdferr our friend Mr. Washington had some words about education in that passage I noticed and when I read them I responded with a certain sense of wistfulness cause we are not a society what values educateyness at all, and it appears we very might could have been.
Mr. Slarticus it is horrifying I don’t care what you say.
I mean, goddamn.
Still can be in future. Just have to pick it on purpose.
“You are swinging your religious fist in some else’s intellectual space.”
No Nishi,
We are sharing a gift of greater value than anything you could even imagine. Only this gift’s worth is not diminished by the number it is shared with and it comes with no strings or hidden agendas.
Because this gift means so much to me I would like to believe that anyone I share it with will be find it as valuable as I do but you are free to accept or reject it with no hurt feelings on my part.
“faith is belief without evidence.”
Wrong again!
faith (f?th)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
Their is plenty of evidence supporting faith in God for anyone earnestly seeking it.
“No one wants to see your faith on display.”
Congratulations Nishi you’ve hit the trifecta of fail!
There is a parting gift but I would recommend what’s behind door number two. While you still have time.
Keep your HONKEY GOD away from me, H8rs!
Scientific Proof!
Don’t make me dig out my toast links.
Why does Tim Tebow being a christian make him a nazi?
His family worked with people of a different ethnic and religious
background, does that make them fair game?
Re: serr8d @989,
“Read Marcus Aurelius. Talk less. And scoff openly at twits.”
Very good advice, thanks for the link.
Tobacco is not called the ‘last addiction’ for no reason.
it is horrifying
Sorry, I must just have a much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much higher threshold of horrifying than you do.
The most I can summon right now is kind of a mild disgust.
I don’t think you understood what Mr. sdferr said, Slarticus.
C’mon, kids, we can get this thread to 1100 comments. I know we can.
I thought we could get Darleen’s magnificent cartoon thread to 1776, but we ain’t yet. Eleven-hundred is a piece of cake.
“…we are not a society what values educateyness at all.”
What’s horrifying is what passes for “educateyness” in modern America. [insert victimhood group] studies majors? How about more classical education and less social justice indoctrination.
The little president man hasn’t placed any kind of renewed emphasis on educateyness really has he? And him being so smart and all.
1,098th!
Somebody tell a jew joke. That’d work in a nazi thread wouldn’t it?
He’s giving everyone a schooling on what a liar he is, that’s for sure!
I mean, Read my lips, no new, oh, whatever…
ELEVENTY-HUNYERT!
Still thinking about the GW statements above.
Is he saying that virtue/morality are the same or a direct result of education?
If so, is that a simple result of the religious nature of education in his day (or personal circumstance, much as I attended parochial school many years later) or a worldview that fundamentally considered knowledge of the universe to be perfectly congruous with the knowledge of God?
It does appear he intends virtue or morality as quite nearly the same or substantially overlapping. And certainly teachable. (Otherwise, what was Jesus always flapping his jaw for, if not to teach? Likewise ol’ what’s-his-name.)
Also, which kind of spring? Rivulet or wound steel band?
So then, as I take it, by education he’s essentially saying moral inculcation.
In which case, as he chides against considering the necessary morality prevailing without religion, and he’s against the state promoting any one specific religion, does it follow that he would be against public education? (State administered that is.)
Or, would he say that education as we think of it (arithmetic, biology, etc) could happen anywhere, anyhow, just as long as citizens were exposed to some strenuous moral inculcation somewhere else.
“So then, as I take it, by education he’s essentially saying moral inculcation.”
In part, surely, though I don’t think exclusively so. This part where he says “In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.” would seem to indicate that he views the necessary structure of government embarked on as a fairly complex matter due requisite attentions though. And rightly, I’d think.
I’d bet he assumed no citizen in their right mind would want to do without education, and in consequence could be expected to seek it out for their children and themselves.
As to state controlled or administered, I don’t think he’d seen that in his own life, so perhaps he wouldn’t be expecting it. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem to be advocating it, at least to the extent that this isn’t an open call for government schools. A decent respect for individual liberty would tend to make one expect a serious man to take his own education in hand and seek to do his best with it.
This is what it sounds like when I’m thinking.
I don’t know what you mean by that, hf. Which “what Mr. sdferr said” are you referring to?
At #1080, Slart.
Oh. I interpret that as sdferr is using some of your own language right back at you, or is perhaps engaging in the same degree of dramaqueeniness.
Because to me, “horrified” and “terrified” sort of prompt me to take extraordinary means to rid myself of the horror & terror, and not (for example) obsessively blog-commenting about the cumsluttiness of Mama Tebow.
1111th!
Or 15th in decimal!
I heard that Tim Tebow has brothers who are like very white and some sisters who are clinically white all the time too, and his grandparents who are everyone knows are really white and then they went and had nothing but white kids. I heard his grandmother refused to birth Puerto Rican children and instead kept having white children from her husband who like insists on being white all the time, he even puts it on his license he’s such a white guy, which by the way are no people of color on his driver’s license photo. Bunch of white people, they probably are all in that house doing all kind of white things. And then Tim goes and invites this all-white family for some reason to his draft party. Why can’t people learn to start judging people by the color of their skin? There is no cure for stupid.
Thanks for the word-salad, Jamal.
If there’s a point in there, it’s tiny, and greased with teflon.
I think that grease is sarcasm, slart.
Oh. My sarcasmometer must be on the fritz, again.
Odd how it can get all uncalibrated-like, when folks are saying things in dead ernest that ought to be sarcasm, but really aren’t. Like most of what nishi and happyfeets are saying these days, frex.
Happy Fasching, Slart.