This difficult.
And the worst part is, it’s the voters, who haven’t insisted on fixing the system, who are to blame.
Sorry. One of the pitfalls of a government by and for the people, people.
Own it.
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
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- In The Mailbox: 07.18.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
Well. I’m depressed. I was depressed about that yesterday.
Somewhere in Greece, they’re laughing at us.
My one solace is that more and more voters are standing up and demanding a stop to this. I don’t know if we’ll be successful, but at least we’re finally pushing back.
Actually, I have another solace: sales of SquidCo brand torches and pitchforks should continue to be brisk.
“Black liquor” subsidy, tasty racism in a bottle or krafty allusion to the ongoing pulping of the Constitution?
Phew. Neither!
Unfortunately, the entitlement monstrosity will not be dismantled until it collapses under its own weight. The junkies will not voluntarily give up the smack.
When it all comes tumbling down, every charlatan in the land (and some from elsewhere: Soros? Soros? Anyone?) will sashay in to fill the vaccum.
Resist, outlaws, resist.
Dude,
You’re living in a dream world talking about cutting the deficit. “The deficit” is imaginary. It’s just a number politicians bandy about when they need to raise taxes. They create a “budget” that in no way represents actual spending needs and that creates an imaginary “deficit” and then they raise taxes by agreeing to “cut” some of that “budget.”
Are you too stupid to realize you’re being scammed?
Look … the $10 billion is going to get spent. It might be spent on ACORN, or it might be spent on real Americans. But the money’s going to be spent whether real honest Americans get it or Obama’s astroturf groups get it.
For me, I’d rather it go to hardworking Americans than to Obama’s minions.
Quick question: How much is ACORN still getting annually from the Federal Government? Do you know? I bet you don’t know? They’re still getting billions, but you’re completely oblivious to that because Brietbart isn’t reminding you of it every day. You’ve already forgotten about ACORN and the billions being funneled to that group, to this day.
You think, because there were some press releases issued a while back, that ACORN funding was cut off. But it wasn’t.
So, ACORN is still getting its billions to help Obama stay in office.
But you want to talk about unemployment insurance payments going to hard-working Americans? That’s where you want to balance the budget? On the backs of these poor souls who’ve worked hard all their lives and just need some time for the economy to spring back?
You want to talk about cutting the deficit on their backs? Instead of ACORN and the billions and billions and billions going to other Democrat groups?
You people are supposed to be conservative?
I don’t get you guys.
Thanks, someguy. Now I have an excuse to make popcorn.
/sits back, waiting patiently and hitting refresh every so often…
The pushback is good. And Jeff’s point is clear: What exactly, am I willing to give up to balance the budget? The interest deduction on my mortgage? The guaruntee of a social security/medicare benefit?
I mean, I’d like to just start cutting my way through the budget, starting with the Department of Education, but what’s my stake in this game, really?
“…unemployment insurance payments going to hard-working Americans…”
Hawsers! That’s a good ‘un.
At the risk of sounding pollyannish, I suspect that this coming fall the voters might just take some steps toward “fixing” the system.
It’s too bad that the true story behind Bunnings effort, like the link you provided, wasn’t spotlight nore in the mainstream press. Instead, it was the same old, “righties want unemployed people to suffer, the disabled to die and the poor to just disappear!”, pablum. But, you know, there’s that meta-narrative and all…
And let’s not even talk about the hi-jacking of language, your long time focus here, and the transformation of the parlaimentary procedure of “reconciliation” into “an up or down vote”, or, “majority vote”.
I guess wishing folks would say what they mean, and do what they say, is simply crazy talk!
Good Allah, someguy.
That isn’t the issue. The question was whether to float the $10bn or pay for it through available funds. And this isn’t a huge issue in the big scheme of things, it’s merely a telling data point in the larger story which is the gubmint’s abject refusal to act with any fiscal responsibility whatsoever.
Here’s another.
Me, I can’t wait! For November 2.
[…] (s/t Protein Wisdom) […]
Spectacles like this are what make their occasional grilling of CEOs so ludicrous. Just imagine the reverse, with some savvy CFOs and CEOs questioning these jokers about their practices.
Maxine Waters, for instance, just imagine her taking questions.
Noisy:
Give up deduction on Home mortgage interest? Yup, I’m okay with that. Without the subsidy, I think home prices would move downward and stabilize.
Give up the Social Security/Medicare Benefit – Ok with that too, if I can get my “investment” returned to me, you know, the one the govt took and invested for me.
(although, I do understand that ponzi schemes don’t work that way)
I don’t know who someguy is, but he cracks my ass up.
We’re talking about cutting government spending, period. We’re so serious about it that we’re willing to cut programs whose goals we might ostensibly agree with. Do you think that because we favor cutting this program, that we don’t support cutting the others you name?
You’ve come out and admitted that you’re a supporter of Big Government so long as it spends money on things you approve of. And you’re lecturing us on the nature of fiscal conservatism?
These Coffee Party assholes are off to a bad start.
But you want to talk about unemployment insurance payments going to hard-working Americans? That’s where you want to balance the budget? On the backs of these poor souls who’ve worked hard all their lives and just need some time for the economy to spring back?
Well, by definition, unemployment payments go to NON-working Americans.
Want to extend the depression/recession? Extend unemployment. Cap and Tax and healthcare will do a grand part too.
steph, I’d even be willing to forego what I’ve already put into SS/Medicare and receive zero benefits from those programs provided that I don’t have to contribute another penny. Hell, I’m not counting on seeing any of it anyway.
If legislators would have the stones to put forward a bill allowing people to opt out, I’d be fer it.
DarthRove,
I agree.
Give up deduction on Home mortgage interest?
Noooooooooo….
Of course, Jeff’s right to blame the voter. What we allowed was a hundred years of progressive econ. Now we get to pay. It’ll be the equivalent of buying our freedom all over again.
[…] their word and failed to even consider an amendment that would have fulfilled the PAYGO law (via Jeff Goldstein). So, now you and your children are even deeper in the hole thanks in part to dishonest […]
I’d even be willing to forego what I’ve already put into SS/Medicare and receive zero benefits from those programs provided that I don’t have to contribute another penny.
That’s only part of the problem. The rest is that lovely Capitol Hill – Wall Street corridor. The politicrat/bankster cabal. They suck these really big numbers out of computers and pay vast entitlements and “bonuses” with all that stagnant cash. It’s kind like another failed stimulus.
Which we also get to pay for. Welcome to Machine.
I don’t think you get much of anything.
Priceless.
Re: bh’s link #16
Is there a dumber, more clueless politician on the planet than Maxine Waters?
Don’t answer that…
The whole monetary zoo is a construct. It deals and moneychanges artificial entities called bank notes. It determines markets and not they it.
Call it progressivism writ really, really large.
You beat me to it, JHo. someday a majority of people will realize what an “unfunded liability” is, look around at the economic landscape, and scream their fool heads off.
I’ll guess that someguy won’t be a part of that majority, what with the unocrns and pixies providing a barrier to the outside world.
Hey, anybody know what a “unocrns” is?
[crawls back into hole]
An orc with one horn?
Typing skilz! It’s what’s for dinner!
My compadres and I got hammered at lunch. I don’t much go in for drunkcommenting but what the hell. WE”RE DOOMED! This is why I do gigolo work on the side. Cash business.
What exactly, am I willing to give up to balance the budget? The interest deduction on my mortgage?
A DEDUCTION IN THE AMOUNT THE GOVERNMENT TAKES OUT OF YOUR HIDE IS NOT “SPENDING”. Sorry, had to capitalize that. Nor is it an “entitlement”.
The guaruntee of a social security/medicare benefit?
YES, that is the idea. When the retirement age was set at 62 in 1935, guess what median life expectancy was? We have to raise to at least 70 to prevent collapse. Ideas to allow people to invest a portion of their money are nice, but they do not change the underlying life expectancy rising and birth rate falling dynamics.
I just found out I am giving up my quarterly bonus and taking a 5% pay cut to pay for the stimulus. Don’t know if I can afford to balance the budget just yet.
Don’t know if I can afford to balance the budget just yet.
You can if you move into your in-laws’ house, keep only on beater car, and sell a kid into slavery.
What’s it going to take to cut the the budget deficit?
Chris Christie in New Jersey bluntly tells you what.
I don’t recall ever reading a more straightforward and courageous appraisal of a budget crisis. Man is he going to take a whuppin’ from all of the usual entitlement suspects.
A post at POWIP concerning the life expectancy numbers.
Chris Christie is awesome BJTex. I think he more or less has the Newark Star-Ledger and the Bergen Record on his side. Editorially anyway. And the local network affiliates – even in NYC, believe it or not – are not ideological, so he has a chance to play the villain without being portrayed as such. It really seems like enough people have seen the light and are sick of the corruption and crackhead spending in NJ. Maybe it’s the mass exodus of wealthy people and the concomitant loss of revenues while they’ve taxed and spent like lunatics that did the trick.
Semi-OT: THE
SCIENCEISSUE IS SETTLED!I think you are right, Abe.What Christie puts forth in that speech is exactly what I’ve been looking for: A politician willing to swim against the current of entitlement and earmark mentality to face the reality of a budget crisis regardless of the political cost.
That’s not a political calculation, that is a managerial one. Will voters finally swallow hard and realize that the gumball machine no longer produces “free” candy? I hope so.
A post at POWIP concerning the life expectancy numbers.
Points well taken, but the rising life expectancy / falling birth rate dynamic *still* means that the generational chain letter we call Social Security will have to sharply raise the age when people start receiving checks, or go bust.
We are fucked.
Take social security and medicare. The only way this country survives fiscally is to cut benefits now. If we do it right now it need not be draconian, but it requires increading the retirement age eligibility and not doing automatic upticks to benefits.
That is not popular politically. Me and dicentra suggested it once here and got an earful on the subject.
If we wait on this the system will absolutely collaspe because the working population will not agree to insane taxes it would require (if left unfixed) and China will stop lending us the money to just do it. I suspect the only out would be default by the United States or a lot of inflation. Both would be bad. Seniors will be screwed.
This is going to turn out badly. And that day of reckoning is not that far away, probably less than 25 years.
Relax. It will be easy as pie once the political class is removed from the various and sundry capitals and dragged through the street.
This is, of course, after those “leaders” moral weakness and mendacity cause the US to fall into economic and societal chaos.
Enjoy the show!
‘Capitols’. But you knew that.
Is it “bread & circuses” time yet?
I’d give up SocSec if they would just leave me alone from now on. I’ll put the money in my own 401(k) or IRA or such.
I’ve never counted on it. From the moment I started my working life, I knew it was not going to be there when I retired.
“Is it “bread & circuses” time yet?”
Nope, I guess you missed that.
Now it’s time to find a seat, Nero is about to fiddle…
@19 Squid, who wrote: “We’re talking about cutting government spending, period.”
No, you’re not, because there isn’t a political party in this country which actually cuts government spending. Period. Neither the Republicans, nor the Democrats, ever cut government spending. One or the other might slow the growth, but you’re not talking about cutting spending.
So, you can either be for spending on ACORN, or you can be for spending that goes to ordinary conservative Americans who are the victims of Barack Obama’s economic policies through no fault of their own (the unemployed).
Pick which group you want to get the money.
The money always gets spent, kid. Always. It’s only a matter of which side gets it. ACORN is currently getting it. But the unemployed victims of Barack Obama’s economic polices are having their check held up by Jim Fucking Bunning.
Let’s talk about how we can stop ACORN getting their checks, and instead getting that money into the hands of the unemployed victims of Barack Obama and his economic team.
OK?
aka Fortney!
“Points well taken, but the rising life expectancy / falling birth rate dynamic *still* means that the generational chain letter we call Social Security will have to sharply raise the age when people start receiving checks, or go bust.”
If it is just a demographic question, that can be fixed with immigration.
“No, you’re not, because there isn’t a political party in this country which actually cuts government spending. Period. Neither the Republicans, nor the Democrats, ever cut government spending. One or the other might slow the growth, but you’re not talking about cutting spending.”
You mean in raw terms or as a percent of the GDP? Because we’ve had period where spending as a percent of GDP went down.
So someguy, you’re basically super into wealth redistribution. You just want your “team” to be the primary beneficiary of it? OK.
How about stopping ACORN from getting their checks and giving me my damn money back that ought not to have been stolen in the first place?!??! Fuck giving it to people on your “team”, victim or not. If I feel like helping an unemployed victim of Obama, or a Haitian suffering after an earthquake, I am the one who should make that decision. Not you, not Jim Fucking Bunning, not nobody but me.
You smell like a nannystater dipped in Summer’s Eve to me. Get bent.
@boxracc, who wrote: “In all his years in the Senate, Bunning NOW wants to find something to pay for? What a dick.
Well, now see isn’t this what really gives the game away? Did Jim Bunning bring the Senate to a fucking standstill when the ACORN funding bill was up for a vote?
All of a sudden he cares about the unemployed breaking the bank? Bullshit.
Look, I’m against Big Government. Personally, if I was running the country, I’d give you all your fucking money back and shut the lights off on my way out. But that isn’t the world we live in. We live in a world where the money is either going to go to ACORN and all the other Soros-created Democrat front groups, or it’s going to be spent on real hurting Americans.
Am I giving up Medicare? Fuck that, I pay for that with payroll deductions out of my check. Am I willing to give up Social Security? Fuck that, I pay for that. I’m not giving that up.
I never agreed, however, to give money to Democrat Party front groups. So before we start talking about cutting Medicare, or Social Security or unemployment checks let’s talk about getting this money back from these fucking fake organizations.
Jim Bunning never stood up to stop ACORN from getting billions. ACORN is still getting billions. You realize that, don’t you?
Someone punch Jim Bunning (metaphorically) in his fucking trachea if that’s what it takes to shut (metaphorically) his fucking pie hole. Conservatives should be discussing how we can stop ACORN and the other Democrat front groups; and transfer those billions over to the victims of Barack Obama’s economic policies.
“So someguy, you’re basically super into wealth redistribution.
Dude, the wealth is already getting distributed whether I like it or not – by either Republicans, or Democrats. Republicnas are not advocating budget cuts. Show me a Republican wants to cut the budget. There isn’t one. Neither party has ever cut the federal budget.
The money is getting distributed to ACORN and other Democrat front groups. Still. ACORN and it’s associated front groups are still getting billions in federal money. That never stopped.
I’m for getting that back and giving it back to the people the government got it from – Americans.
We can talk about that. Or, we can have the media talking about Jim Bunning shutting off unemployment benefits. If you guys want to argue that the very same government still funding ACORN ought to cut off unemployed Americans’ lifeline … then good luck getting your fucking candidates elected.
Because I think that’s a stupid way to try to convince people to vote for your guy.
Republicans should be saying this: “We want to increase unemployment checks, and pay for it with cuts to ACORN.” Submit that bill and watch the Democrats vote against it. Then, you’ll have something to talk about on the Sunday shows how its the Democrats cutting off unemployment.
Harvard University has a $30 billion endowment that they pay no taxes on.
So, here you have a den of Democrats getting fat with no tax.
Why wouldn’t Republicans submit a bill into the Senate to increase unemployment payments, and pay for it by taxing the Democrats favorite university – the one produced Barack Obama?
Wouldn’t you stand a better chance of getting your guys elected on that platform?
someguy, you’re some guy. Really.
Although, at least you’re consistent, in that you think “your team” deserves to raid the treasury more than the “other team.”
See, I’d rather not give up my Social Security. However, I made my peace with the fact it isn’t going to be available when I retire, if I retire. And, for me, retirement is a little over a decade away. I fully recognize the fact both R’s and D’s raided SS and spent the money, rather than set it aside.
What’s been spent can’t be unspent.
So, either we have to tell the younger generation to pay up in a huge way, or, we have to admit we were part of the problem, and, as such, accept the consequences of letting the mess get out of hand.
Obviously, someguy, you’re not ready to admit just how much your team was involved.
You’ve been watching “Fuck Acorn!” on The Travel Channel.
Next up: “Jim Bunning is a Big Poopyhead!!”
“The wheels on the speech go round and round … round and round …”
Snatch all of Acorn’s billions (which is fine with me) and you wouldn’t make a pimple sized dent in the deficit. Here’s the ugly truth, someguy: The only way the deficit is going to come down is if you fundamentally reform Medicare, Social Security and other entitlement programs. The. Only. Way. There are no substitutes.( Unless you want to make draconian cuts in Defense and weaken our ability to defend ourselkves … and even that won’t be enough.) I don’t mean not allowing it to grow as big. I mean raising the retirement age and toughening eligibility standards and a whole bunch of stuff that causes AARP to get their panties in a bunch and scream like dervishes.
Go ahead and do the math, bro. Yank all the money back from pet programs and you are still left with a looming catastrophe sometime within the next 10 – 20 years. Add this craptacular crap sandwich of a Health Care Reform bill and you just might have to cut that estimate in half.
We haven’t even started to talk about the states or the world wide unfunded liability. How do you think the deficit is serviced, someguy, by pixies? It’s serviced by selling 30-40% of our debt to foreign banks, mainly China and Japan. What happens when they decide to jump off of the sinking ship?
As Joe stated above: We are so fucked
someguy seems pretty raw, but overdone at the same time.
I kind of like the cut of someguy’s jib. I’m still trying to avoid going all angryfeet after drinking eleventy caipirinhas at lunch, but when is rage at government spending ever a bad thing? Except $2,000 Pentagon toilet seats, of course. Our troops deserve to pinch a loaf on the very best.
{{{TrollHammer}}}
Hey look, this page suddenly got way shorter!
“The only way the deficit is going to come down is if you fundamentally reform Medicare, Social Security and other entitlement programs.”
Quit saying “reform” when you mean “cut.” Are you a Democrat? Only Democrats use the term “reform.”
But you go ahead and advocate that. Go to the elderly voters and tell them you want to cut their health care that they paid for. Go to the elderly voters and tell them you want to cut their Social Security checks they paid into the system all their life. Go to the 25 million unemployed or underemployed voters and tell them you want to balance the budget on their backs.
And see if you get elected.
I’ll wait.
What you guys don’t realize is that to do what you want to do, you first have to get elected on that platform. And you can’t get elected by advocating what you’re advocating. People don’t cut their own throats.
But there’s a lot that can be done to limit the size and scope of government and thereby reduce its power over us. Let’s do those things first. Let’s advocate those things and get elected and then once elected actually do those things.
That’s how you get power. That’s how you get Capone.
That’s the Chicago Way.
“People don’t cut their own throats.”
Oh, but I was under the impression that the point of this post is precisely that they do. Otherwise, how has this problem come to be?
Did you know there are almost 2,000 people at the Department of Transportation that make over $170,000 a year in salary? And that’s just one department.
The reason is because they have a public employee union. And that union negotiates with itself for raises. So of course they get them often.
If you want to cut the budget, let’s pass a law limiting government salaries. Cut their pay. Disband, legally, public employee unions. A public employee union is the government negotiating against us, the people. Fuck that. It should be illegal.
See, there’s lots of ways using conservative principles to cut the budget and the deficit without advocating that voters slit their own throats.
Gotta get elected before we can do anything about the budget. Remember that.
Otherwise, how has this problem come to be?
How do you define the problem? You seem to define the problem as: “Deficits Exist.”
But that was true when Bush was in office and Reagan, too.
I define the problem as being: “Democrats are in office spending profligately (frequently on their own front groups to extend their power over us).”
So, my solutions are geared toward fixing that problem: Remove the Democrats.
I want Democrats out of office and so I’ll be advocating ways to do that. and you don’t do that by threatening the unemployed or elderly voters. Those groups vote; so try not to piss them off.
“You seem to define the problem as: “Deficits Exist.””
Based on what do you assert this simplicity?
“And Jeff’s point is clear: What exactly, am I willing to give up to balance the budget?”
And the answer is: Nothing. Not as long as the Democrat front groups are still getting their billion-dollar checks.
Once that’s fixed, then we conservatives should start talking about other ways to cut, but we haven’t even got to the point where we’re cutting out the ACORN money yet (and other waste and fraud that’s being funnelled to Democrat groups).
Let’s talk about that and get elected, then we can do shit. Can’t do shit till we get into office.
@sdferr,
Don’t let me put words in your mouth. Not my intention. How do you define the problem?
I define it as: “Democrats are in office spending profligately, (frequently to support groups like ACORN actively working to undermine the country).
How do you define the problem?
Lemme repair to Jeff’s post and this proposition as grasping the problem, with which I agree: “…the worst part is, it’s the voters, who haven’t insisted on fixing the system, who are to blame.” For an enlarged discussion see this.
We had someone coming around before the last election to tell us all what we should do too. And then there is Warren who comes in to say all that is good in the world is due to some clever scheme he has initiated and enunciated vaguely/sagely somewhere, somehow.
I feel so blessed and important now.
“For an enlarged discussion see this: ‘They still don’t get it.'”
Here’s what I get … ACORN is still getting its money. That’s a reality.
But you guys want to talk, instead, about cutting voters’ Social Security or unemployment checks before you even get your guys into office to accomplish the task.
You don’t get it: Before you can reign in Social Security you have to get into office and you’re never going to regain office if you advocate cutting Social Security or unemployment benefits. It’s that simple.
George W. Bush tried to “reform” Social Security and the result was he lost the Congress and created Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Did you guys not get that? Were you not paying attention?
Let’s talk about government waste, fraud and billions going to Soros front groups. That will get our guys in. After that, we can shape policy.
I’m not sure you have a firm grasp of what we get and what we don’t, though, someguy. It may be a better idea to chew over all the issues in play with the rest of us for awhile.
Why all the issues and not simply the narrow selection you’ve chosen to press? Because the country has just experienced an empty “hope and change” bait and switcher and for now at least, doesn’t seem to be all that well enamored of him.
Whereas “That will get our guys in. After that, we can shape policy.” sounds to me like more of the same.
There’s a great deal of persuasion that needs to be done: all the more when we consider the terrific gap between what we think the intent of the national charter is and what the polity seems to think that intent is.
“There’s a great deal of persuasion that needs to be done: all the more when we consider the terrific gap between what we think the intent of the national charter is and what the polity seems to think that intent is.”
Fair enough. It just concerns me about when is the best place and time to have that debate.
I would like to see government limited. We can debate how we get there, but let’s remember that in order to accomplish the task, we have to convince the polity to put us into power. Otherwise, it’s all just academic, right?
There are huge swaths of the federal government that can and should be eliminated before we even have to think about touching Social Security, Medicare or other programs that voters do care about and feel like they pay for.
Nobody feels like they paid into the ACORN fund; but lots of people feel like they should get their Social Security check since they paid into it. Same for unemployment. People pay into unemployment … so when it comes time to dish out the checks to the victims of Barack Obama’s economic policies, we probably aren’t doing ourselves any favors by choosing now to have that sort of debate.
Let’s wait to have the debate about eliminating voters’ unemployment checks until after we rid ourselves of the other aspects of federal power that we can all agree nobody wants and that won’t cost us anything except Democrat votes we aren’t going to get anyway.
Clearly, better citizen journalists are required to make these well-founded accusations stick.
It’s the New Orleans way.
___
We do notice, do we not someguy, that Sen. Bunning himself professed to be in favor of extending unemployment checks? So it isn’t as though some more radical departure from the status quo ante has been advocated by him — he simply wanted the additions paid for. And if that meant cutting the black liquor subsidy in order to obtain the funds, he was willing to go along.
It strikes me, however, that what we need in order to prevent the government getting to this point is a change on a more fundamental order, one which I will readily accede is not going to be easy to come by. Anything less appears to me to be stop-gap at best, and probably will result in more of the same poor political behavior at worst. When to talk about it? What the most propitious time? Always and everywhere will come too late. Decades ago would have been about right.
I think someguy needs to see the budget, and then realize he’s talking about gnats on the beasts ass instead of the beast itself.
Bunning was trying to make Congress live up to it’s new pay as go rule, and Boxer killed it with a procedural challenge. Call Bunning a dick, but the guy showed us all how serious (or not) our faithful leaders are to the promises of fixing the debt problem.
He wasn’t trying to kill the fucking unemployment extension, he was trying to make them pay for it!!
I found the effort quaint and charming.
I’m thinking only armed revolt is going to slow the mofo’s down.
Let’s talk about how we can stop ACORN getting their checks
Didn’t you hear? They’re not ACORN anymore; they’re reorganizing, changing their names, blending back into the woodwork.
Look, I’m against Big Government.
What did Andrew Breitbart ever do to you?
I pay for that with payroll deductions out of my check
No you don’t. You pay for someone else’s Social Security and Medicare. With unemployment, you’re paying into an insurance-type policy, so receiving payouts isn’t exactly a dole like welfare.
But that FICA stuff that they’ve been taking all these years? It’s long gone, sonny. You haven’t been paying into anything.
Wouldn’t you stand a better chance of getting your guys elected on that platform?
AAAAaaaaand there’s the tell.
It’s a concern troll, folks. Nothing to see here, move along…
It’s a weird insurance policy that has payouts appropriated from the general funds of the government, not to mention has the terms changed in favor of the payees in midstream.
It’s got riders sdferr…;-)
Good point sdferr,
I believe Senator Bunning thinks that unspent stimulus funds should be used to fund extending unemployment benefits.
The Dems think that budgetary discipline is for the little guys but passing a pay-go bill is so yesterday. Man, get with the present we have a crisis to take advantage of.
82 was for 77 if it wasn’t clear. The servers are working at union pace tonight;)
Didn’t need a tell. My SquidCo Bull Poop Detector (check the back aisle, go around the mob at the SquidCo Torch bin) was pinging like a geiger counter at Trinity from the first post.
This is what almost ruined my damn meter. I had to switch discussion threads to keep it from cratering the needle in the “WTFLOL” that is lovingly hand-painted on the “Quite Full of Crap” end of the meter.
Now, where can I get me some of that “SquidCo Concern Troll Spray?” Is there a 1-800 number I can call?
link
Oh Lord…another one.
Uhhhh, okay, Mr. My Name Links the Birchers.
“If nothing else, the overwhelming success of the Tea Party movement has taught us that America is ready for a third choice on the menu.”
yes the commie/socialists/fascists/environuts should have their party. let the dems reclaim their party.
A Bircher? Really?
i like birch beer
More blood sucking politicians is obviously the solution.
One little problem, Ed: The U.S. isn’t set up for a third-party system unless it fully and quickly supplants one of the existing ones.
On account of the winner-take-all electoral stuff rather than proportional parliamentary stuff like the have in those thriving EU countries.
86 percent of Tea Partiers oppose the formation of a third party.
Make that TWO little problems.
I like white birches, lovely trees, but John’s type not at all.
i like birch beer
ME TOO! But they don’t sell it in SLC UT.
And the two existing parties, cheered on by cable news, are having too much fun throwing feces at each other while the country burns. So that’s a problem too.
This is an issue I would prefer to be wrong on.
These steps are necessary.
1) Reverse and rescind the Bush medicare perscription drug expansion. Obama says it is bad so he should support this.
2) Start ticking up retirement eligibility ages for social security and medicare. You can waive it for those on the eve of retirement and start adding a couple of years to those five years to ten years out, and then five years to those beyond that. Yeah, that means having to work till you are seventy. Stop whining. You may not live that long.
4) Stop doing automatic cost adjustments to medicare and social security. It is not intended to be a primary source, just a supplement. It needs to be cut, but it definitely cannot expand further.
5) Address public pensions that are unsustainable, starting with Congress and the President. The days of Harry Truman having to use coupons after he left office are over. Presidents make big bucks in retirement, even Nixon. States and municipalities will need to do the same. People should get what they paid in, but not some tax payer guarantee on top of that.
6) We need to look at reasonable cuts in discretionary spending and military, but that is a relatively small portion of the pie and there is only so much you can do before it gets dangerous. The big numbers are on the entitlement side. That and paying off the debt.
7) Fight earmarks. They are small numbers relative to entitlements, but they lead to large consequences. It is the grease in Congress that causes the graft.
8) Some health care reform is probably needed. But not a grand expansion of entitlements. There are changes which would make a positive difference which do not cost a lot. Do those.
McGeHee was right, trollhammer makes the page shorter. Amazing.
Online birch beer.
See, I’d rather not give up my Social Security. However, I made my peace with the fact it isn’t going to be available when I retire, if I retire. And, for me, retirement is a little over a decade away. I fully recognize the fact both R’s and D’s raided SS and spent the money, rather than set it aside.
Somewhat off-topic, but I just want to comment on the “raided SS and spent the money” bit of Common Knowledge. I’m currently re-reading my PJ O’Rourke books, and here’s an interesting point he made in 1991, that bears repeating.
“That was the idea behind the 1983 Social Security finance reform — advance funding. [] By 1995 the Social Security System will be taking in 32% more money than it’s spending. In that key year 2030 the SS trust fund is expected to have a surplus of $2.3T.”
“Our federal govt. can’t save up the way an individual can. It’s such a commonplace to anthropomorphize government [] that we forget a democracy is not a person or a sentient being of any kind. It can’t even act like a legal fiction of a person the way a coroporation can.”
“Everyone assumes the SS trust fund is a kind of giant national Christmas club, a great big joint savings account with 250 million names on the passbook. However, when an individual puts money in a savings account, that money gets invested in factories, farms, home construction, South American drug shipments or whatever. Those investments make money – or are supposed to – and the money they make pays the interest on our savings. But when the federal government buys South American drug shipments, it has to burn them, which isn’t very profitable at all. Nor is it politically feasible for our govt. to invest in private industry, except in emergency situations, such as when under threat of another Lee Iacocca biography. The only thing the federal government can do with extra cash, such as the SS trust fund, is buy federal government securities with it – loan that cash to itself. And once the loan has been made, the govt. has no legal choice except to treat the proceeds of that loan like any other federal revenues and spend the shit out of them. Our SS trust fund isn’t being “raided.” It was never there in the first place.”
“Of course, inasmuch as we are a democracy, we can fix this trust-fund problem by legislation. We can pass laws making the federal govt. invest our $2.3T in the private sector – get govt. to buy farms, factories, and housing developments. There’s a name for this economic system. Indeed, the citizens of East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia and Romania had some very pungent names for it.”
—
TL;DR summary: SS system brings in more than it spends (back then). Gotta do something with the excess money. Can’t just put it in a ‘lockbox’ – it won’t even keep even with inflation, let alone handle the “people routinely get more out of SS than they ever put into it” problem. So the excess cash has to be invested into something that pays better-than-inflation interest. Politically impossible to invest in anything other than T-bills; but that just moves the pile of excess money from one dept. to another (in exchange for an IOU), and doesn’t solve the underlying “what to do with this excess money, other than spend it” problem.
The solution: starve the beast. The govt. can’t be allowed to have large piles of ‘excess money’ in the first place!
Joe: we need to work toward abolishing Social Security entirely. And Medicare. People tend to behave differently when the railings and safety nets are gone.
how’s life in saudi land
ya know they privatized ss in chile. how did that work out? global warming caused an earthquake because of no gov’t program.
Apparatchik and the Dead-Enders would make a decent band name.
inasmuch as we are a democracy, we can fix this trust-fund problem by legislation. We can pass laws
There’s your problem right there, Peej: we’re a republic, and therefore we can’t do jack squat. We can only hound them until they do what we want, and increasingly they pretty much don’t.
Your link quoted another “source” that stated this “fact” without any kind of attribution of methodology.
Yeah, I noticed that lack of attribution of methodology, too, except it wasn’t so much lacking as it was present.
But that’s the first time I’ve ever been called an apparatchik! Thanks!
How is it that we’re getting trolls from the far right? Who linked this post?
can we call far right trolls nazis?
I think it’s the same old trolls with a new tactic.
can we call far right trolls nazis?
Nazi = National Socialist = Left
So, no. Read your Goldberg.
Then again, I’m too lazy to engage them.
I think it’s a nice change of pace.
I think it’s the same old trolls with a new tactic.
There was a story Ace or someone linked to a week or two ago to the effect that they (you know, them, the Sorosian Powers of Darkness (another fine band name, death-metal I’m thinking)) would encourage the Tea Partiers to head towards the “they both suck, we need to run a 3rd party candidate” position.
For the obvious “more socialism!” results. See “Perot, H. Ross”.
America is ready for a third choice on the menu.
I vote cats.
Actually, I do agree. America needs a third party, the Green Party. Then the progressives will have another super choice. Yeah!
The trolling version of Tommy John surgery bh? Tendons taken from the left arm and planted in the right. TJ had a wicked change up.
well the “far right” is to the right of uncle joe and nearer to adolph. but then i like beck’s tv presentation of the last few days with statists vs anarchists continuum. the founders nearer to the anarchists(no not the black cloaked bomb throwers: smallest gov’t possible)
i thought the proggs were gunho for the new peoples party/acorn
Apparatchiki baby, the Wild Party !
The last half of last century the Democrats have been drifting left. When I was a lefty radical in the 80s, fed up with the wimpy ass Democrats and advocating a Real Progressive third party, the party we envisioned was the modern Democrat Party. But what this means is the party has left its traditional, working class base and is now fully in bed with the entitlement parasites, and as much as the elitist love the poor, most of the old working class base don’t.
As the Left has slid to the left, so has the Right slid to the left to try to recruit those voters. Voters like someguy who just wants to make sure he gets his, that tax dollars go to the “working man”, not some bum.
This is why you are seeing the rumblings of a crisis in the Democrats right now, a huge chunk of their base is realizing the compromise may not be working any more. Likewise on the Republican side, the old school individualists are flirting with Tea Party movements, because the Republican Party is really just the Democrat Party of old, and we are going to be hearing from more and more someguys, private industry blue collar and union types who don’t care as much about cutting taxes as just making sure they get theirs.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
Heh, guins’ Alice Cooper link has a chimp with a wheelbarrow full of money in the video. So yeah, I’d say that’s on topic.
This, on the other hand, isn’t on topic.
encourage the Tea Partiers to head towards the “they both suck, we need to run a 3rd party candidate” position
Good point. Linking back to the official Bircher site is a bit too much, even for a Bircher.
“it’s the voters, who haven’t insisted on fixing the system, who are to blame.”
Yes, yes, yes. That’s absolutely right.
Now, we can point at our elected officials and shame them for their pandering, their corruption, their short-sightedness, and their bad decisions. And they deserve much of that criticism.
But it’s us who keep electing them, who keep telling them that we won’t give up our little part of the pie no matter the cost, who gave them all the damned rope that they needed to hang us all. If we don’t, as you say, own it, we’ll never start making better decisions in the voting booth.
or the private union types will see self interest in this:
link
How do poor people behave differently when the social nets are gone, Dicentra? Other than splatter onto the pavement. Oh, and someguy was no troll; I’ll bet he was some poor schmoe moderate conservative with a bug up his ass.
Ever live without a safety net, cynn? I have.
You work more, waste less, save more and only take mushrooms on the weekends. Even if it sort of puts a damper on those footloose and carefree ’90s.
they have to think for themselves. oh the darwin society.
Sorry, but that’s spot on topic, bh. It also gives me hope that everybody under fifty isn’t a complete [redacted] dope.
As for the overs?
In the Coop video, I think that’s Cynn at 0:32 and DC at 0:47.
cynn not Cynn, sorry.
I would have saved a lot more money if I had understood what a lie Social Security was as a young man, cynn. And my future wouldn’t be nearly as fucked as it is right now.
I think I just fell in love with Chris Christie. And I did not know that he campaigned pledging to be a one termer.
More, please. Faster.
Ed, question, does the modern JBS still believe in the Illuminati and the Rothschild bankers and all that noise?
Between the two of us, I agree that dicentra is a nefarious liar. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t even speak Spanish either.
Add Social Security to the list of Shit that RD is Clueless About.
Which I would imagine is reaching encyclopedic proportions at this point.
i hope the feds do with the little dollars g. gordan liddy has in his gold ads.
I actually like Chris Christie’s viewpoints. My colleagues won’t. Too bad; it’s over. Help out the people you purportively serve, asses.
B Moe: You do realize Social Security (I fuckin’ capitalized it) will be gone when we retire, if we can? Are you not pissed at anyone? It’s such a goddam, pointless and aimless fury; maybe nobody to blame but me.
bh, you are way too nice.
Hey Ed, you lying fucking shithead Bircher, go blow Patti-B and the whole paleo gang.
Trollhammer was made with idiots like you in mind. Next month bring some cash to go with your trashy self, BOY!
baracky man the lemonade stand or anyfuckingthingyoudidinyourlifesuccessfully
49 year old college educated loser
fdr, jfk, lbj but they’re dead demorats.
Comment by dicentra on 3/3 @ 6:20 pm #
Joe: we need to work toward abolishing Social Security entirely. And Medicare. People tend to behave differently when the railings and safety nets are gone.
You are awesome dicentra. You areally are.
Give what back?
“fdr, jfk, lbj but they’re dead demorats.”
And they’re the problem. Let’s get proactive and seize their estates, moron.
I don’t know about the others, but LBJ drank his.
Jon Swift:
Jon Swift passed away on 2/27/2010.
Well good luck with your third party, there, Ed. With all that wit and charm of yours I don’t see how it can miss.
I’m really more of a worthless joker than liar, Ed.
Dicentra, that one, she’s the degenerate liar.
B Moe, on the other hand, he’s a musician, which is somewhere between actor and whore when you think about it. I hadn’t really noticed before. You lot are a pretty shady bunch altogether, aren’t you?
Ed, could you perhaps offer us a hopeful path away from our obviously low state?
‘Cause, Ed, I came across this video from your group and I didn’t quite understand it. Any help?
Bad actors that aspire to be whores. That is about the size of it.
Ahh, you bastard!
Ssssh! My apologies for the friendly fire.
Been bit by a raccoon lately Ed? Feeling a touch feverish? Hydrophobia setting in? Cause you’ve sure got the raving loon part down pretty well already.
Ed?
Ed?
Nazis in the Hamptons. And Madison Square Garden.
In comment 86, Ed said the following:
I responded in comment 94 thus:
Ed called me a liar in comment 128 and attempts to prove it by pointing to a Rasmussen poll that found the following:
Ed doesn’t realize that we’re talking past each other. Ed asserted that people are ready for a third party, and the Rasmussen study provides evidence of such a trend. I did not attempt to directly refute that assertion but rather pointed out that Tea Partiers themselves are not interested in forming an actual third party, ala Ross Perot.
How that makes me a liar is for future generations to decide, as they sift through the remnants of the intartubez.
By way of apology for #154, this.
That sounds like liar talk to me, di.
You are awesome dicentra. You areally are.
Tell me something I don’t already know. :D
How do poor people behave differently when the social nets are gone, Dicentra?
People have already given good answers to this, but I’ll add that many of today’s poor are entangled in the safety net, unable to be anything but poor because of the net’s existence.
I also know what it’s like to have a magical monthly check suddenly stop coming. IT SUCKS. I was outraged, because I felt entitled to it.
Then, faced with the prospect of losing my house, and despite the IMMENSE emotional inertia I had accumulated for about two years, I went out and got a job.
Nothing short of dire necessity could have stirred me into action, either, and I already had many, many years of work under my belt.
Welfare never helped anyone not be poor.
Dicentra, that one, she’s the degenerate liar.
You wanna piece of this? You callin’ me out?
Well, you’re ugly and your mother dresses you funny. And she wears combat boots.
Ed, help, I’m being attacked by musicians and liars! Help!
You’d have the the John Birch Society would be looking out for a hard-working American like myself.
Apparently not. Good luck sleeping tonight, Ed.
the=thought. Sorry, I’m still a little shook up that the JBS wasn’t there for me when I needed them.
You know if that is out on the 360 yet?
Breaking News: Apparently Representatives are a lot cheaper than Senators.
I’d have to assume not, B. Otherwise things wouldn’t be getting done anymore.
Blue team cheats an awful lot bh. And their goaltender…. um…. sucks.
As a goaltender.
Not on straws or anything.
Well, sdferr, that’s because you don’t recognize the obvious religious implications of this sexy football dance. It’s very solemn, I assure you. It just seems like licentious sport to you. To us, it’s all about the babies that will appear next summer. Fat-assed fertility god willing.
169: Yes, Rep. Matheson’s fax machine received one of my large-font missives about a half-hour ago.
Also Chris Christie is teh God.
Note on 172: it’s a pagan thing, baby.
HA! At Twitter, #devilcelebs
Orlando Doom
Shiva Longoria
Lucile Baal
Senator Orrin Old Scratch
The Artist Formerly Known as the Dark Prince
Jay Leno
The concern trolls today were quite cute. How to win friends and influence people, an object lesson.
Just learned the Terps handed the Dukies a pummeling and joyojoys it’s being repeated later on the ‘spn. Fear the Turtle. Speaking of which, where’s hf?
We could call ‘feets the same way we called others back. With youtube links and talk of free tacos.
‘feets, ’89, Cardiff, the newly born running man. And, yeah, free tacos.*
Okay, I’ll break out the big guns.
‘feets come home. Home’s the place by the zoo with the lizards.
*
Too much fun – that’s news to me
Too much fun, how could that be
There’s a whole lotta things that I never done
AIN’T NEVER HAD TOO MUCH FUN!
I think Obama is a far bigger asshole than Al Gore. At least America was not stupid enough to elect Gore.
And that’s going some, in my hateful right wingnut mind.
What I love are the idiots who call me racist because I think Obama is a disaster.
Uh-uh. I hate jerks, of any melanin level.
And we have one CERTIFIED jerk running this country.
Now we wait.
Hey, B. Moe (OT)
I was looking for your e-mail, and got a site about Ed Roman.
If you know Ed, I will have to put a bullet through my head…
and wait. I think I’ll make biscuits.
And bacon.
And snausages.
And pangravy.
mmmm,sdferr, uh, you think you could make it to Texas for the next week? dinner lately has been wheat thins and hummus. tonight it was “frozen entree” turkey and mashed potatoes with gravy. it was okay.
Hummus is one of my favorites but you should knock together some quick flatbread in place of those wheat thins (not that I’ve got anything against wheat thins, mind you). Hot fresh pita type bread with hummus and olive oil goes a long way with me. Anything labeled frozen entree though, that ain’t right even if its got turkey appended to it.
…and wait. (I love hummus.)
Unexpectedly long/late shift tonight so this is a late addition.
The “John Birch Society”, JBS, is a pointy headed minor punch line in a 70 year old joke the Left has had running on an endless loop to the world, forever it seems. That they don’t “get it”, and believe the punch line is a compliment, just adds to the chortle factor for the Lefties.
Ed is most likely not a JBS but a Progressive in good standing. Doing his part for the “Cause” and throwing in the JBS link as his own personal recitation/citation of that hoary old standard. Done just for “shits ‘n giggles”.
What makes cutting the deficit so difficult is the massive wall of stupid in the way.
Right. Buckley essentially kicked the Birchers out of the conservative movement in the late 50s/early 60s, I believe… 50 years ago or more.
Of course, the fact that these “progressives” follow a fucktarded political philosophy that’s *150* years out of date means that we can’t exactly expect them to be familiar with the current political landscape.
BirchBoy, RillyDumb, and someguy: all ‘hammered.
Although I do confess to some lingering curiosity about the outcome RillyDumb/SFAG “relationship”? Who kicked whom to the curb? Rilly apparently wound up with custody of the 15 year old Packard Bell. That’s all we can really say.
Sean Hannity, is that you?
Comment by Joe on 3/3 @ 1:38 pm #
“We are fucked.
Take social security and medicare. The only way this country survives fiscally is to cut benefits now. If we do it right now it need not be draconian, but it requires increading the retirement age eligibility and not doing automatic upticks to benefits”
Hey, Joe, where you goin’ with that gun in your hand?
Sorry. Couldn’t help myself.
Anybody who hasn’t seen this coming since the fifties needs a refresher course. I think that pretty soon you will have to be 105 years old to get thirty per cent of your SS.
SS – where have I heard that before?