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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
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The link. She broken.
DEFEND MICHAEL Here you go.
Unlike the Haditha traversty, this fell below the radar. That is a serious mistake by the Prosecution and it should create a mistrial.
So angry. So very very angry.
I’m with one of the commenters: Lt. Benhenna, I’ll gladly serve the time for you.
Jeff post more often
That is all.
What? The? Fuck? Any why is this the first I’ve heard of this?
The links above were blocked for me but here are links to the Stars and Stripes articles:
Part 1
Part 2
Barack Obama sowing the seeds of love
This is the fucked up United States of America more than Barack Obama hf. Our notions of justice have poofed up in smoke sometime back, though who knows when with any precision.
This is an astonishing miscarraiage of justice, that I had not heard of until now. I’ll definately write my represenatatives as well as donate to Lt. Benhenna’s defense fund…
What I don’t understand is how it can’t be declared a mistrial if evidence was witheld?
Bob,
The trial judge said that the evidence would not have made a difference. IMHO the apellant court should grant a retrial.
I get the impression that the military likes to throw the hippies a bone or two in each war. Doesn’t seem to occur to the brass that the hippies are not mollified or appeased but, instead, use each incident as proof that the military is a bunch of psycho babyrapers.
I agree Danger,
I’m no expert on military justice though. I’m sure Colonel John could explain how all this works…
this is how things go in Barack Obama’s America I think … he’s a disease what’s also a symptom I guess
wash your hands
Barack Obama sowing the seeds of love
Just once can you be something other than a complete fucking moron? If you knew anything about military justice you would realize that a man who has served as president for 8 months had no say in this. But of course you don’t because you never served. We don’t have much information on this case (this is the first time I’ve heard of it). Charging someone with murder in a war zone is like giving out sopeeding tickets at Indy, as the man said in Apocalypse Now. It’s always the lowest ranking soldiers who get fucked when the military decides to upgrsade their image or whatever they are doing in this case. Like with Abu Graib, only a few lower enlisted ended up going to jail for that. If he killed an unarmed prisoner he should be punished, if not then this is a travesty.
Thank you for posting this information. Donation done.
How hard would it be for him to grant Lt. Behenna a full pardon the guy tomorrow?
His AG has direct knowledge of the process, right?
Same reason Bush didn’t give Lindy England a pardon and the other poor enlists slobs who were prosecuted for Abu Graib. I’m sure the military didn’t come to its decision casually. We needs the facts of the case before coming to any conclusions.
Oh sure, daveG, further facts would be swell, but they aren’t necessary for me to respond to stinky’s snide “how hard do you think it would be for him to order the Pentagon to come down on this guy hard!” with “how hard would it be for him to grant a full pardon.” So, y’know, piss off….
In Barack Obama’s America one should be very very cautious about how one treats an Al Qaeda monkey when the Al Qaeda monkey gets all attacky. Gently does it.
Just once can you be something other than a complete fucking moron? If you knew anything about military justice you would realize that a man who has served as president for 8 months had no say in this.
daveG
He could have chastised John Murtha for his comments regarding the Marines at Haditha or Ted Kennedy for his comments about “terrorist prisons under different management” or John Kerrys comments about soldiers terrorizing Iraqi families.
Or maybe poisoning the well was acceptable to Obama if it led to acquiring power. One of these days there will not be soldiers willing to risk drinking that water
So if the guy killed an unarmed prisoner that’s OK? The military court seems to have come to that conclusion. We don’t have much to go on to even discuss this.
I agree with daveG: happyfeet is fucking retarded. Can someone find him a can of pudding to keep him busy?
oops missed daveG’s quotation marks so ” ” (cut and paste as appropriate).
so nice to eat, so nice to taste
Barton read part two of my links above
The prosecution witheld expert witness testimony favorable to Lt. Benhenna’s defense.
And lay off Happyfeet
thanks, Danger … it seems so long ago but used to be there was a whole War on Terror. Many brave men fought in this war, and made the world better and safer.
Barack Obama is president now and it’s different.
If he was an illegal enemy combatant and out of uniform, then yes. In fact, I would encourage it.
“…if the guy killed an unarmed prisoner that’s OK?”
Sure is, if the “unarmed” prisoner was attempting to kill or seriously harm the Lt. in disregard of his own life. It isn’t unheard of y’know. Cop loses weapon to killer, killer kills cop with cop’s own weapon. Why would the cop given the opportunity, not kill the attacking prisoner?
Here is a JAG’s blog on the issue.
Another story on the issue: Another story on the issue.
The question is whether Lt. Behenna summarily executed an Iraqi or whether that Iraqi (a known terrorist) tried to take Behenna’s gun away and got shot in the process. With forensic evidence all the prosecution has, withholding evidence that the Iraqi was standing (and thus could have been attacking Behenna) seems critical.
In a combat sitution, I would err on the side of the combat soldier not the Iraqi terrorist.
Here is another blog on the issue.
I would always side with the lawful combatant (in this case, Behenna) against the unlawful one (any damn terrorist).
Interesting post from Hannity’s site:
sigh,
I hear ya Feets
Barton dropped by to call everyone ignorant racist hilljacks in another thread last night. He is just trying to stay true to form.
William Calley, a platoon leader convicted for his part in the 1968 My Lai massacre, was paroled in 1974.
“Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to
beat you to death with it because it is empty.”
this is the first time i’ve seen this story also. and just ARGGHHH. it makes me so angry i want to punch someone in the cunt. or set my hair on fire. but instead i’ll just go wash my hands, again.
Drudge is reporting House is voting to defund ACORN (just to make you all feel slightly better).
oh yeah,
Iran can probably make nuke bomb now. That makes me feel not so good. Probably makes Israelis a bit nervous too.
And louchette, I hear you, becareful not to scrub the skin off your hands.
Hmmm. I was a bit busy down at Basrah when this all went down. So I had not heard anything about it whilst there.
As a former prosecutor, I must say I am worried about withholding exculpatory evidence. You have to turn EVERYTHING over – not try to hide the ball. From the post, it appears this would be a serious error and the (military) appellate court should reverse. I’d have to see more of the record to be better informed.
The appellate review shouldn’t take too long, I think.
hf, this was pre-Obama days. More a MNF-I JAG decision than anything else. Military courts are very strange to me – sometimes they are very harsh or completely exonoratory for reasons I cannot fathom – at least reading articles or military journals.
“hf, this was pre-Obama days.”
True LTC but it was not pre Senator Obama/Kerry/Kennedy/Congressman Murtha days.
He could have made a difference but he allowed the well poisoning.
I know the dead terrorist part happened before Obama was elected but the soldier was tried and convicted in the new hopey changey era and our piece of shit commander and chief needs to make this right I think. Either that or it’s emblematic.
I read 26 and thought of Gollum grabbing a fish…
Anyways, however you view the actions of the players, due process is still basic, yes? Withholding evidence contravenes said due process IMHO.
Lindsey Graham used to be a JAG I read once. He actually recently spoke up for Joe Wilson and was supportive. That’s so not Lindsey it must be a decision he made more out of fear than conviction I think.
Meghan’s daddy was very very not supportive of Joe Wilson.
Meghan’s daddy is a fop.
Chris Simcox is on twitter.
“…used to be a JAG”
I think he probably still is, though in the Reserves. I think he may have served as recently as 2006.
It’s probably wise for me to preface the comments I’m about to make, because I realize that I’m going to take some heat from a lot of PW regulars whom I have come to like and respect. I have commanded troops in combat (a long, long time ago). My oldest son, a Ranger, was deployed to Iraq during roughly the same period as this incident, and he will likely deploy to Afghanistan when his current tour stateside is completed. So, obviously, my emotions and my sympathies are with this young officer and his family. However, as someone who still considers himself a professional soldier, I have to give you my perspective.
There is certainly a reasonable doubt that LT Behenna intended to kill Mansur; conviction of murder, or even manslaughter, would seem to be a very great stretch. BUT,
As an officer, and as a soldier, LT Behenna was obligated to fulfill his duty to return Mansur home unharmed, even if knew for certain that Mansur was responsible for the death of his troops. I can understand his anger and his frustration at having to set the probable killer free. LT Behenna perhaps did not intend to kill Mansur; no one can say for a certainty. What is certain, however, is that LT Behenna placed his prisoner, and himself, into a situation that could reasonably be expected to result in harm or death to Mansur. It would not have happened if the lieutenant had properly exercised his duty.
The profession of arms is a harsh calling. It often calls upon one to act contrary to his feelings and emotions, and for good reason. Was Mansur a murdering slime bag who got what was coming to him? Yes, probably – but that doesn’t matter. The issue is not about what Mansur was or did. It is about who LT Behenna was and did. He was an officer of the United States Army, who swore an oath to live and act by a rigid code of conduct. For whatever reason – frustration, anger, stress leading to a breakdown in judgment –he failed to live up to that code. A man entrusted to his care was killed, and the circumstances of the death were not honestly reported. LT Behenna neglected his oath and by doing so caused grave damage to the honor of his service and his country.
I hope for his and his family’s sake that this young man does not spend the better part of his life in prison. It would be a tragic waste. But had I been sitting on his court martial, I could not have voted for complete acquittal. He was guilty of dereliction of duty, negligence, and conduct unbecoming a member of the Armed Forces, at the very least. I think from what previous commenters have said, LT Behenna recognizes that himself, and would not excuse himself from the consequences.
I think from what previous commenters have said, LT Behenna recognizes that himself, and would not excuse himself from the consequences.
I’ve no argument with you on this, SJY, except to say that the man deserves a fair trial, and if the prosecution was withholding evidence, it’s hard to believe he got one.
We need to hold the courts (military or civilian) to the same standard we hold our officers.
slack,
I think the Court of Review will look at the whole record and decide reverse and remand, partial reverse and remand or leave it alone. I suspect remand and something lesser will be sought? Just speculating.
the sword of justice has no scabbard I don’t think
SJY: I agree that troops cannot summarily execute detainees once in custody. As much as we can sympathize with those soldiers in harms way having to deal with such terrorist scum on a daily basis, there is an issue of right and wrong when it comes to that.
The question here is how this case was handled from the start. Seems a murder charge would be very difficult with this level of evidence and it is just as likely self defense as murder. So if the question is improper handling of the situtation (and the reports show there was some of that), why not a lesser charge for that? And then withholding evidnece by the prosecution? That is extremely troubling. Seems Lt. Benhenna is being scapegoated.
tho i am sure i sympathize more with the uniformed soldier and not the terrorist, i also know that i was neither on the battlefield nor in the courtroom. (and i have not gone looking for the transcripts, or even looked into whether they are available.) so i really don’t know what happened, and am not qualified to judge it. it is the withholding of evidence aspect of the story, that miscarriage of justice, which angers me.
Well said slackjawedyokel,
You will get no arguement from me irt his judgement prior to the shooting. We are supposed to strive to be above reproach unfortunately we do sometimes fall short. My issue with the case is the standard of judgement applied (witheld evidence is as unaceptable as any other failure to maintain standards and discipline) and the political environment we operate in.
As I mentioned earlier one day there will not be enough soldiers willing to drink from the poisoned well.
slackjawedyokel, thanks.
Michael is the nephew of a friend of mine…hopefully he’s gonna show up here in the next day or so and give some further information. He is the same age as MY nephew and because of that, joined the army AFTER 9/11/2001.
Now, I was in the military, I joined the Navy in 1982. It was an easy decision for me. I’d flunked out of UGA, and wasn’t doing good at GSU (I’ll let ya’ll figure those out, Bmoe, betcha get in wrong), the economy sucked, so I joined. Never in a million years did I fear going into combat, or facing off with another ship, nothing. I didn’t join to make it a cxreer, I just did to try to kick start my life. Which worked out frankly. My brother joined the army shortly after me, he’s a different dude, a brave, fearless man, who did great things and retired a hero. But even when he joined, who really thought there would ever be the kind of conflict we face now (Actually te answer would be the first class petty officer who taught a 45 minute class to us in boot camp, explainging that the USSR would collapse, thus freeing up the islamic maniac religous war against the world, but I digress)? People forget how easy our lives have been, especially all of us pussies born after 1960. Every single one of those boys and girls who have joined since that time knew they were going into combat. They’re the greatest.
Well, 9/11 happens, Michael joins, my nephew who is not brilliant like Michael (That’s Billy!), struggled to get in. They wouldn’t take him for a long time. His pride, and the pride of his wife and 2 boys (At the time, now we’ve got Kady), my parents, and my brothers and sisters is something I treasure. His emergence as a man and hero after is first tour in Iraq is one of the great stories in my life.
Now he’s going back. I’ve discussed Michael’s horror with his uncle a few times in the last month. He’s gonna be led in patrols by a guy like Michael, and I, and everybody’s gotta put their trust in that guy. If something’s gonna happen, if we’re gonna deny and ignore the Geneva conventions, and those boys are gonna try to advance information and our cause. Then they deserve a fucking fair shot Mr. Yokel. That’s all. If they’re gonna be put on trial for their lives, then perhaps we should recognize the Geneva conventions, perhaps we should recognize due process. Perhaps, fuck you gotta be kidding me dude.
LTC John, I’m not saying this is, but in the heat of a highly charged political enviroment as brave and great men battle a religous evil, it’s pretty easy to throw the lower guy on the totem pole to the wolves. But I got my opinion.
Joe, Thanks for posting all of this stuff. I got no skills, and I believe that the more it gets out, the better it will be for Michael.
Ya’ll wish my boy Billy well, he deserves it. He’ll come back bigger and badder than ever.
I’m glad the terrorist is dead. It sounds to me like Lt. Benhenna should have been charged with something with respect to judgment or negligence, but not murder. The prosecutors in this case are clearly gay I think.
As usual I can’t spell.
HF beat me to it on the “judgment” aspect. I think part of what SJY alludes to are the imperatives of command, in which poor judgment is enough to mar your career as an officer.
And by the way, look up the history of Dr. Mconnell. He ain’t a hack.
“LTC John, I’m not saying this is, but in the heat of a highly charged political enviroment as brave and great men battle a religous evil, it’s pretty easy to throw the lower guy on the totem pole to the wolves. But I got my opinion.”
I’m not sure what that means. If it is a thought that the LT is getting thrown to the wolves to cover someone else higher up…I don’t know where that enters this particular story. If it is something else – please explain. Thanks.
That’s an interesting way of putting it. Behenna is the guy that shot him. It’s all about the circumstances. What I’m saying is that higher up guys would have no problem destroying his life in an effort to placate the Iraqi government. I believe this is quite possible in this case.
Mr Yokel, I reread your post, and will back off somewhat. I understand your point completely, however, we were’nt there, and there were several other soldiers there. Reading more about the case, makes it clear that the government chose to prosecute Behenna on facts that don’t exist. And they knew it. This is sinister and it is wrong.
If Behenna loses his career so be it. To have spent 30 seconds in Fort Leavenworth is a crime against Michael Behenna.
I guess we need to execute non uniformed combatants on the spot. That’ll put and end to this charade now won’t it?
tough questions
Make bad sushi?
I’m wondering what the LT’s superiors were thinking in charging this LT with the release of that prisoner. Were they unaware of the history? If so, why? If not, why not assign a different platoon, or at least send along someone a little more senior as oversight?
FWIW, sdferr, if I found myself in such a situation and were offered a pardon, I’d wipe my a$$ with it and the implication that I had done something that required pardon. Acquital or fair conviction.
I think I wrote too hastily there RTO, as I was aiming less at an actual pardon than at the powers of the Great Obama. Apologies for my clumsiness.
holy crap. this is all….crazy.
No way this guy should have planted AQ boy, but no way should he do 20 hard years either.
Slightly off topic: I think I shared that I at one point was a grad student in military history. When I was at Fort Meade researching something else in the mid 90s, I came across the declassified transcripts and primary source work that came out of the liberation of Dachau.
The upshot of it all was that the day they liberated the camp some US Army units took it upon themselves to execute every single SS soldier they could find. 346 in all, many in very cruel fashions; trust me, i saw the pictures. There were two problems with this. One is that the SS soldiers formally surrendered and had made no aggressive moves, and the second is that the SS troops were Waffen SS–as opposed to “Death’s head,” or Totenkopf concentration camp guard units. In other words, they were purely billeted in a sub-camp off the main camp. They were probably battle-crazed scum from the eastern front, but they didn’t do the brutal camp work. It didn’t matter. they were all killed with the cameras rolling.
Reason I bring this all up is that the Army held an investigation since even soldiers in some of these units were like “WTF?!”
The Army investigators were asking, “why did you do this? Didn’t you know that this was against the Geneva convention? Did you know these were regular SS?”
The soldiers replies were along the lines of, “I wanted to. Yes. So sue me.” From officer to enlisted man, they all pretty much followed this script.
This wasn’t right, not by a long, long shot. But it does show that between then and now, things have changed.
There has to be a middle ground.
Thanks for that, mcgruder. I learned something today. Good on them.
here is the massacre of which Mr. mcgruder speaks
I didn’t know about this cause no one tells me anything.
You don’t just beat someone to death with a shovel for no reason.
Fort Meade is a wonderland for a loser like me.
Another gem from those archives-in 1947, the US and the USSR, who appeared to be heading towards “The Battle of Kursk:The Sequel,” decided to hold a general staff-level meeting to share sanitized, scrubbed appreciations–lessons learned, in other words–from the recent war.
A nice idea on paper, but A) everyone was really a spy, so nothing meaningful was going to be discussed, and B) Both sides really saw each other as the true enemy of the most recent war–the Germans were just in the way.
Still, the day came and the US presented its lessons: Don’t wage war like the Russians. So dont kill half your generals before the war, dont sacrifice whole army groups, dont use scorched earth policies, dont act like vengeful huns when youre on the offensive and so forth.
When the Russians presented their findings, their lessons were also clear: The US was run by barbarous cowards, willing to alternately raze entire cities with no strategic value yet spend a year dithering over where to attack the enemy’s ground forces, plowing resources in secondary and tertiary theaters, pulling units out of battle when they were down only a third and so forth.
the entire thing became a shouting match and they never did it again until the first Bush presidency.
It was just really interesting and funny to see how both sides viewed each other.
There is a lot out there if you care to look.
I appreciate the thoughtful comments regarding what I threw onto the fire. Sorry it’s taken me so long to re-access the conversation, but I had my normal 2 hour commute.
I wholeheartedly agree that there was an unseemly eagerness to prosecute this officer for the worst (murder) offense that could be argued, and that failure to disclose possibly key evidence was unconscionable. And Donald, I understand how you feel. Nothing I have said or will say is meant to demean this young man or cause pain to his family. I sincerely hope that he does not suffer from a miscarriage of justice.
Being a good deal older than most of the commenters here, I lived through the Calley affair. Maybe you know this already, but a lot of people leaped to Rusty Calley’s defense out of (what I considered) a natural but misguided impulse to side with him regardless of the facts. After all, he was an American soldier in harm’s way, and we were the good guys. Calley was just exacting some rough justice. Or at least that was how the argument went. (Let me say emphatically that I am NOT equating what LT Calley’s platoon did at My Lai with the incident under discussion.)
It was at the time one of my tasks to explain the Law of Land Warfare to my young Marines. The question I was repeatedly asked was, “Why do we have to live up to the rules if the enemy doesn’t?” The only answer I could give was, “Because we are U.S. Marines. We have a code that we live by.” I believed then, as I believe now, that if we don’t live by that code, if we as Americans forget our honor, then there is no point to the sacrifice.
It’s hard. It’s frustrating. But folks, think about it. You trust the men and women who are fighting for you to adhere to an uncompromising moral code. And they do. Under horrendous circumstances. And if they ever stop adhering to that code, then we have lost something we will never get back. When we don the uniform we are held to a higher standard. We accept that, and we live with the consequences. We can only ask that, when we are judged for our actions, the judgment will be fair. And that is what I hope will happen in this case.
Ms. Abrams sees a New Years contrast and in it, she thinks, Pres. Obama’s shamelessness.
Given what we have seen from APORN and their troll supporters, calling yourself a loser seems a bit … much ;-)
Please. I’m having trouble calling what happened at the capture of the Dachau CONCENTRATION CAMP a massacre. The massacre happened long before the Americans were anywhere near the camp. The fact that ANY German soldiers walked away from that place ALIVE is testament to American generosity and martial order. That place should have been razed to the ground with the soldiers still alive inside.
This is why “I was just following orders” isn’t a valid defense for a genocidal/criminal action committed by a soldier. Even the UCMJ allows for soldiers to question their orders if they believe they are illegal. Mind you, they better have a damn good reason for doing it because they’re going to be in hot water for the rest of their careers over it, but they are still legally allowed to question their orders.
Obviously “Go scrub the head” is not a valid order to object to, even if it is located in the deck division berthing. Those suckers are nasty!
yokel – Most of us understood that, but thanks for the explanation. Racist.
This is a sad story. The facts as presented in Jeff G.’s link are enough to pursue an appeal of the case, and an appeal to Obama (who might loathe the military, as did his predecessor Clinton). I’ve no sympathy for the al Qaeda operative, if those facts as presented are true (well, I’ve no sympathy for any true al Qaeda operative period, even if he was, say, beat with a shovel).
FREE MICHAEL BEHENNA!!
And, here’s a LA Times article, with pics. h/t @DefendMichael
mcgruder, I had not heard about that at Dachau, but I think that’s called prosecutorial discretion.
Summary execution is not something you want to encourage, but given the stresses of combat you have to give every possible benefit of doubt to your own troops.
There is massive difference between going mad on civilians (which is what happened at My Lai, even if many of them may have been Viet Cong supporters) and men in combat killing the enemy that his trying to kill them first. As for the Waffen SS, they were not running death camps, but they were quiet active in killing Allied soldiers and were committing attrocities against our troops too.
Danielle Pletka notices that Pres Obama, ever the fair man, is staying true to that famous sense of right expressed to Joe the Plumber, only this time, in the realm of foreign affairs.
I’m big on leaping to the defense. It’s a thing. Maybe I should look at that.
An account of the Dachau liberation and the killing of some SS guards (not quite the same as what mcgruder reported).
http://www.remember.org/witness/sparks2.html
“63.Comment by donald on 9/17 @ 2:40 pm #
That’s an interesting way of putting it. Behenna is the guy that shot him. It’s all about the circumstances. What I’m saying is that higher up guys would have no problem destroying his life in an effort to placate the Iraqi government. I believe this is quite possible in this case.”
Not I. I’ve seen what the IA does to AQ and JAM when they fight. This wasn’t placating the Iraqis – this was someone pressing this to the hilt – apparently past what was ethical if the exculpatory evidence is what was presented. The prosecuting JAG(s) should be most severely sanctioned and the conviction tossed if this is true. I wouldn’t give much for the judicial temperment of the, er, judge either.
Great adult conversation here. A sincere thanks from a guy who has never served, so really has no right to interject into the psyche of battle tested soldiers, marines and sailors (sorry if I have the incorrect terminology for our men and women in the Navy). So I suspend my judgment on the LT. However, to withhold pertinent evidence or testimony is a gross violation of this country’s rule of law.
As a civilian, it has always been my understanding that our fighting men and women do operate under a stricter code of conduct as to separate themselves from the rest of the world’s fighting forces. With that being said, it is also my understanding that people not in uniform and members of known terrorist forces who have killed and/or are killing members of not only our military, but more often innocent civilians, do not deserve nor will ever deserve, to be taken alive. Godspeed to all our brave men and women in uniform. And thank you, again, to all the commenters that have served and/or are presently serving in the military. You are in my thoughts and prayers constantly.
War has rules? Who knew.
Why did Military Intelligence turn the Gomer loose? Is it because Military Intelligence is an oxymoron?
Re: Calley was an incompetent knucklehead officer leading a platoon from the notoriously poor Americal Division. It was formed up in country in Viet Nam with many men drawn from other units. Naturally the other units sent their flotsom and jetsom and kept their best troops. Calley’s men had taken lots of booby trap casualties in the VC friendly Batangan peninsula. They never saw the enemy and went into the village complex of Pinkville with vengeance on their mind. Unfortunately, they took out their wrath on women and children. It was a shameful display of failed military discipline which forever stains the multitude of those who served honorably in that difficult war,
The troops today are of a much higher quality .Unfortunately, the officer corps has plenty of political animals
who kowtow to the left and cannibalize their own men.
Rusty,
Only on our side.
Our side says, “kill the enemy where you find him, while avoiding civilian casualties as best you can.”
The Democrat side says “Kill the enemy, but only if he is shooting at you and there are no civilians within 500 yards. Even then, we’ll reserve the right to prosecute, if it will advance our cause politically.”
If I were writing the Law and Order: CID (Criminal Inviestigative Division) version of this story, the twist at the end would be that we find out that Ali had agreed to the Spook Shop to turn double agent, but that the Battalion commander, aware of this decision and completely disagreeing with it and overruled, chose the LT with history to do the release, hoping for a “poor” outcome.
But that would be fiction.
The truth is surely much tamer than that, but there’s got to be more to this is those higher levels. The LT’s judgement is far from the only one that needs to be questioned.
LTC John, I understand your thought. That doesn’mt mean that it’s not completely possible that this was done for political reasons. Porbably when I use political I’m fumbling around for the wrong word. But I have no doubts that under pressure from the spineless masses throughout this country, that the Bush and Obama (Now that he’s in there) administrations have made decisions to appease the spineless masses, our for shit allies, and a fumbling, just trying to get established Iraqi government. Maybe that’s political, maybe it’s not. I do feel a special rage to those who have turned a major attack on our country into a political issue about 30 seconds after those planes flew into those towers. Our guys aren’t going to get in breaks over there in world opinion. They’re just not, that’s why I fear for my nephew and his soon to be 24-27 year old unit leader.
That’s “any breaks” and the rest of the post…I gotta proof read. I apologize all.
I have heard that, in order to be helpful, the NCIS withheld exculpatory information in the Haditha case.
If the truth isn’t good enough for the prosecution so that they feel they have to lie, we have a problem.
IMO, as I have felt for some wars now, the military will take the occasional opportunity to screw a few junior guys to placate the left. Whatever it takes.
“Unfortunately, the officer corps has plenty of political animals
who kowtow to the left and cannibalize their own men.”
“IMO, as I have felt for some wars now, the military will take the occasional opportunity to screw a few junior guys to placate the left. Whatever it takes.”
I’d love to see some back up for those positions. “The military” does not throw people to the wolves to “placate the left.” When you see cases like Haditha and the LT in question here, you have to look at the immediate chain of decision making about this. You may find an overly cautious higher up that simply refers it all to the nearest SJA or an AR 15-6 investigator that thinks he has his place in history made, or a sincere authority that thinks they have a possible crime that needs extirpating – who knows?
To claim a systemic political scapegoating of junior folks to score points with leftists or a callous officer corps that jettisons lower ranking folks to injustice so as to not interrupt their evening cigar break with any messy justice doing, is way off.
LTC. During the Panama invasion, a ISG was courtmartialed for murder. He’d been watching a fresh batch of prisoners when one came up with a pistol. He killed the guy. Might have been punished for improperly securing the prisoners, presuming there was time, but the Army gave him a general court for murder. Didn’t even dispute the circumstances. He was acquitted. Stupid. But they could say to the left and the media, see, we go after these guys.
During the Somalia invasion there was a door gunner shooting at a guy standing behind a woman who was handing him fresh mags. He eventually killed her in the exchange and was brought up on charges. Don’t know the disposition of that case.
But the major issue here is the deliberate withholding of exculpatory evidence. You don’t do that at the command level, you don’t do that at the referring level. You do it as a prosecutor who has found out that a conviction is the order of the day. And we had that wrt Haditha and this case. And why would a conviction be the order of the day, instead of justice?
There’s another going on right now in which something happened that got some ink and the military grabbed the nearest half-dozen snuffies, some of whom could prove they weren’t there, and have them up for a general.
Unfortunately for the army, they forgot the rule of three.
When something happens, there’s the guys who did it. There’s the guys who knew about it but didn’t stop it. There’s the guys who should have known about it but didn’t. So, in addition to the half dozen jr em they’d planned on hanging with the NYT in attendance to show the army’s bona fides, they now have some E9 and field-grades under investigation.
I’m guessing the sandbox version of Lt. Sonny Fuzz who convinced higher that this would be a dandy idea is not going much further in his career. Since I know some of the folks involved, I won’t be more specific.
But also this isn’t the first terrorist to die violently and it’s not just when they mess up and get captured. It’s something of a pattern with these ones. Terrorists hardly ever die in their sleep I don’t think. Maybe Yasser Arafat did, but he had AIDS cause he liked nailing little Palestinian boys.
I didn’t say anything was systemic. I am saying it happens and it does. It’s ok Mr. John, there’s shit scraping boot heels in all walks of life. There are slimeballs that would throw anybody under the bus for a bump.
Donald,
The most important responsibility a Commander has is the welfare of his troops. I can assure you that with very few exceptions they take that responsibility very seriously.
LTC John please correct any errors in the following description:
I am sure that you would agree that the incident warranted an investigation. The military system of justice requires that someone outside of the individuals chain of command be directed to conduct an investigation and make recommendations on whether or not charges are justified. This recommendation and the matter of responding (judical or not judical) is decided on by a General Officer in the chain of command.
If the General Officer reviewing the investigating officers recommendations elects to proceed with Court Martial the case is referred to a judge advocate. From there a Court Martial is very similar to a Civilian criminal case.
The accused has almost identical rights and rules of evidence applied to his case as the civilian criminal courts. A system of appeals is available to anyone found guilty of a crime.
The withheld evidence of this case is a disturbing revelation and will be reviewed thouroughly by the appellant court. I know that the LT is a friend and your concern is genuine and encouraged. Please try to have patience and let the system work.
I certainly dont want to discourage you from seeking support (financial and emotional) for the LT and hope that you will keep us up to date (I am certain if you e-mail Jeff G he will forward the news)and please accept our prayers for a favorable outcome.
Regards
LTC John, Forgive me for questioning the mindset of field grade officers as I was only a lowly drafted E-4 grunt in Calley’s war. Calley and captain Ernest Medina both should have had the hammer dropped on them as they let their troops commit a horrible war crime.
There are and have been in recent years many senior officers in the military who are as much political animals as war fighters. I may be a million miles from nowhere but its hard for me to not see political correctness and idiotic rules of engagement resulting in some of these prosecutions. Thanks for serving , Colonel.
Danger, I don’t know Michael Behenna. I do know his uncle, so it’s a little personal to me.
However, I know the insane rules these guys work under, and I know that political pressure is pounding them from above.
I realize that Michael probably shouldn’t have walked him into that culvert, but I also think he should have blown his brains out when he first captured him, dumped his body in the middle of the street and left a note. One thing these animals understand is force and balls.
So ok, he should be punished. Reduction in rate and 1/2 pay for two months ( don’t know what they call it in the army). Sounds about right to me. That would be justice.
#87
I try never to second guess the guy who is doing the heavy lifting. It’s distracting to them and makes you look like an idiot. One thing is certain though. That’s one terrorist that’s never going to get let out of prison to kill somebody else.
#97 – I was enlisted myself – got to E-5 and turned to the dark side, er, got a commission. Yes, the ROE does result in these things being run for charges. As Danger said – this has to be investigated first (per AR 15-6) and then some General Officer somewhere says “go forth and prosecute”. Some may be political animals thinking that they can do something to show how good and law abiding we are, some may be ultra adhering to any rule promulgated, some may just be jerks.
Richard – you will always be able to find an example of the military justice system looking FUBAR, just like the civilian system. It is the overarching claim that “the military” or “higher ups” make deliberate scapegoating an everyday part of the Armed Forces that steams me. I have always done two things for those under me – been their crap umbrella, as it rains down from higher up, and lived exactly as they did; patrolled with them, shared every danger, hardship, lousy living condition, etc.
#98 – you cannot reduce a commissioned officer by non-judicial punishment. Article 15 of the UCMJ covers all that, for what it is worth.
“turned to the dark side”
Heh. But managed to smuggle something else in with you I see.
We’ll John, whatever the fuck the comparable punishment is mkay? Let’s just don’t put our guys into Leavenfuckingworth for 20-25 fucking years, for doing their best to their guys and this country…mkay, especially when it ain’t so fucking cut and dry mkay? Look you defend the fucking system as best you can. You do what you gotta do. And yeah I got an axe to grind. I’m right. Mkay?
I’m Michael’s uncle of which Donald spoke of. I’m personally involved here so I’ll do my best to keep my emotions to a minimum. In all likelyhood I won’t be successful so I’m asking for precursor forgiveness! I was at the trial. Excuse the pontificating as well!
Many good points here! Some though are very ignorant to the facts and nuances that happened at the trial. One of the posts that extracted a diatribe from Hannity’s board was written by my sister on that board. She points out very well the nuance of SGT Werner and his plea testimony! Now some would say his testimony is a fact from the trial, while anyone with a lick of horse sense would know that the SGT was also charged with murder and signed a plea written by the head prosecutor herself! The SGT even testified and confirmed this FACT under cross. He also claimed he never read the statement and signed it for the reduced charges and sentence. He pointed at the head prosecutor and said she wrote it! This statement was in direct conflict with his previous statements from the Article 32 which would have eliminated him as a witness altogether! The statement was written to match exactly the prosecutions claim this was an execution stye shooting and nothing else. It put the SGT in a eye witness account of the shooting of which was physically impossible to accomplish based on everyone else’s testimony and diminishing light conditions of that fateful day! Even the grossly contrived statement contained serious contradictions! The SGT was supposedly 30 meters from the culvert and urinating with complete darkness on the verge. He heard the first shot, buckled up, ran 30 meters, and then saw the second and last shot all within 1-2 seconds! The Dallas Cowboys are hiring! When asked if that is what happened, he said if that’s what it says in the signed statement (written by the prosecutor and never read by the SGT), I guess it did. That gave the prosecution an eye witness who was also US Army. The other so called eye witness was an Iraqi citizen who was acting as an interpretor. This is just one of many intentional and unethical, IMO, acts from this prosecution. Another SGT claimed under oath that he had a “get out of jail free card” and could refuse to answer or say anything he wanted. His Commanding LTC was a complete disgrace on the stand! He was well aware of all circumstances concerning the AQ, Michael, and the members of Michael’s unit that were killed by this scum and his cell! Yet, he sent Michael and his unit out to release him.
One other item…. If anyone uses “Professional Soldier” as a description of our Hero’s fighting for our American Way, know that this is a term used with great favor and quite often by those who are writing, prosecuting, then judging the current evil ROE that are putting our Hero’s in jeopardy daily! It is a new term and means nothing and despised by our hero’s from past wars I’ve spoke with!
Ask yourself some questions:
* Should Marcus Lutrell have shot the Goat Herders and the 14 year old boy or was it better that 19 of our finest Navy Seals die in war and to be considered heroes in death while the enemy they were in battle with livs on to kill more of our Hero’s?
* What does Marcus Lutrell say?
* If he chose to shoot those goat herders and boy, then destroyed the 150+ Taliban unit would he and his men have been charged with Murder when they returned home?
* Why did Michael take the extraordinary step of interrogating this AQ one more time? Why the charge of premeditated murder (Execution style)? If that was the case, why would he bring witnesses to an execution especially one who was a local? If he was in fact performing an interrogation, which is a fact from the trial, what were his motivations? Were they of grave and dire circumstance outside the wire and congruent to his mission and safety in regards to his men?
* Why did the prosecutors withhold this critical evidence they had for days despite being asked for it 3 different times by the defense?
* Why did they send an email about it to the defense so that it would be received just after the sentence had already been reached; again…. despite having it for days before this?
* Duty, Honor? Ask the 1Lt.’s men if he was acting in accordance to his Command and stringent Army standards. The answer would be a deafening….. HOORAH!!!
* Ask them would they serve under him again? Again; HOORAH!
* Ask them if the 1LT was the best officer they ever served under? HOOOOORAH!
* If the 1LT was a beat cop and an unarmed known murderer reached for his gun in an alley way while being questioned, would the policemen be justified in shooting him? Would he be tried for premed? Would he serve 20? Would the prosecutors get away with withholding this kind of evidence? (Ref. Sen. Ted Stevens for your answer!)What would the ultimate result be? Are soldiers at war not given more consideration than this?
* Would the 1LT be a concern on the streets of the good ole USA? Would any of the citizens here fear him as a murderer?
* Who sat on the Member Panel and what was their battle background?
Better yet, talk to the families of SGT Kohlhaus and the others in Michael’s command who died from the IED set by this AQ and his cell who resumed room temp.!
Actions unbecoming of an officer? Not following the code of Duty and Honor? Anyone making that claim in this case is a totally misinformed ignoramus, IMO of course! GOD help us if the JAGS had to lead us in battle!!!
Folks, there is much more to be revealed here but it’s for another time……. In due time, in due time!
In the mean time remember what our Brave Hero’s from Viet Nam have said about this very condition we find ourselves in now….. “Either come home in a box carried by 6, or come home and be tried by 12!”
For all you blowhards who spat your military experience on here contrary to this HERO’s plight, here’s a group of 5,000 strong of our nation’s finest and of all ranks and experience who will inform you how full of %$^& you are. They’ve seen it before, they never want to see it again, and they won’t be nice!
http://www.screamingeagle326.com/index2.htm
Rick,
Thanks for posting your thoughts. My prayers are with Michael and his family and I hope that the issues you brought up are considered fully in appeal.
Please keep us updated about his case. Feel free to jump into the active thread or Post it in the Pub which is one of the links at the top of the page on the left side.
God Bless,
Danger (Active Duty USAF currently deployed to Iraq)
He’s currently pending appeal through the CCA. Estimated wait is 12-15 months. There should be some major national attention to the case soon. Reently the LA-Times but it will be much more wide spread than that. This is the fog of war and in this case, the fog was heavy! Those who reside in safety and stand in judgement either from afar or intimately, need only a mirror to resolve their problems!
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