I just heard Rep. Michelle Bachman (R- MN) on the Scott Hennen show refer to ACORN getting $2 billion (yes, that’s billion) in new funding from the “economic stimulus†bill Obama and Democrats ram-rodded through Congress with as little debate and scrutiny as possible.
Frustrating, no? Bachman noted that the payment to ACORN wasn’t a “stimulus,†it was a pay off. Presumably for ACORN’s efforts in fraudulently registering Democrat voters across the country.
Well Bachman also noted that after she finally got the 1,000 page final version of the bill just after midnight on Friday, the one she was to vote on within 24 hours, many of the line items in the bill that appropriated millions of dollars had vague descriptions like “education†and “supplies.â€Â
Census. Oppo researcher. Fairness Doctrine. ACORN. Transparency.
Way to go, Kickback Boy!
Not to be a total downer, so wish Patterico a happy 6th blogiversary.
Just so’s you knows who your masters are:
White House seeks to rein in executive pay excesses
Report: Postmaster Gen. Rakes In Big Bucks
Add to that the fact this bill was so urgent that the Prez took a vacation before he signed it.
If this is true, then there has to be some way to get an injunction against it…
I mean, ACORN is effin’ bein’ investigated or under indictment in more than 10 states for fraud of some type. How can they be recieving more of the tax-payers money..?
Someone has gotta take a close look at the final bill and check on this. Where can I get a copy?
Don’t know if this is the whole thing, but here is something:
Beware: MASSIVE PDF follows
http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/RecoveryBill01-15-09.pdf
Does that one include the hand written notes? I wonder if we can identify Pelosi or Reid’s handwritting on that.
I’m going shopping today for “food”. If I came home with nothing but $200 of “fancy feast”, we have no cats, I could claim to have brought home “food”. It wouldn’t fly, and neither should this.
Here is the link from OpenCongress.org
This may be the final text.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1/show
(Note: the bill is divided into two parts. Part A is the appropriations section. Part B deals with tax issues)
I suspect the notes are a continuing process.
The Left, Process is our most important product.
Bitch bitch bitch, whine whine whine complain complain complain.
You wingers don’t get that at least Obama is doing something about the economy. What did Bush do ? Zippo, other than spend money we didn’t have to send troops overseas. Hell, Bush’s doctrine was an Iraqi stimulus plan of its own. Would things be fundamentally different if we had saved ourselves the trouble and let the Iraqis fend for themselves? Nope- sure we’d still have Hussein to annoy us but he was completely contained and as has been proven time and time again, there were no WMD. (look no further than Joseph Wilson’s report on Niger and the way he was swiftboated). Maybe if Bush had spent the trillions of dollars on the US rather than IRaq, our economy would be in a better position and millions of Iraqis wouldn’t be dead.
Bush got us into this by overspending on foreign countries. Obama is spending money in America for Americans. And what’s wrong with rewarding an organization that signed up voters- they are doing the work many american wingers wouldn’t do, since you all are too busy watching NASCAR on TV while eating cheeseburgers and letting fat cat CEO’s bend the rest of the country over.
whoever is doing wewon, it’s getting tedious, you can stop now.
“You wingers don’t get that at least Obama is doing something about the economy.”
Fucking it up worse than it is now.
We will look back on Jimmy Carter with yearning and nostalgia.
Dan,
That wasn’t nice – are we sure it isn’t Dark Witheld? Just ban/delete ‘im if not.
If it’s Dark Witheld, I apologize.
Do you really think I could possibly mean anything I’ve said in the past week ? Like, what sane person would take those positions.
Ok, I’ll stop now. But I do feel like parsnip and I will now never be close again …
I’m sorry. Carry on.
I apologize for my mood. Lots of stuff going on. I think I’ll stop for the day, now.
The irony though about what the tool said is that unlike this mass of crap, at least with the money spent in iraq, it’s pretty undeniable the impact it had.
I love the complete break from logic about “spending money we don’t have”. Because really, thats kind of the majority of the point, no?
As a side note: Imagine if the US actually stopped spending money on untestable feel-good programs and spent it on infrastructure?
dante, it was a parody all along.
But I really do have to get away from this box before all the good news drives me mad! Mad with delight!
Change we can believe in!
No lobbyists in Obama’s admin? How about Obama’s aides becoming lobbyists? Don’t be stupid, be a shmarty, come and join the lobby party!
It can’t be Witheld. Witheld was funny.
While we’re on about Iraq, though, this guy is alright for a filthy Marxist. I can’t help noticing that the post is 2 days old and has all of 21 comments. Left ’em speechless, he did.
Tim Geithner!
Geithner frightens Wall Street investors when he starts chanting:“It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.”
That better be a joke Joe.
You’re not comparing Obama to Baron Harkonnen, are you Joe? Because that would be racist.
Dan,
ah, I had kind of pegged it as a driveby, so not well thought out, but sincere.
Dan,
If it is the class that is on your mind, what you are doing is not something where there is a cut ‘n paste solution for doing it. This is an early beta.
Is this guy still freakin campaigning?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18934.html
Hopey!
Changey!
More of the Samey!
He is the President for God sakes and the next election is 4 freakin years away. WTF is he doing?
Consider that much of this $ will not be paid out to ACORN until 2009 and 2011 just in time to buy votes.
His real job, as opposed to what we think is his job.
One month into the brave new future.
We live in their reality now.
Let’s see how the Hope/Change train stays on the tracks after the inevitable hyperinflationn sets in, to be followed by the ever rising interest rates. Argentina, here we come.
But, hey! We’ll set a Guinness world record with the largest number of winos and junkies registered to vote!
I wonder if the various states’ RICO-like laws include seizure of the corrupt organizations assets. If so, that may be a windfall for the states…
Wristwatch crisco! Pud!
Maybe if Bush had spent the trillions of dollars on the US rather than IRaq, our economy would be in a better position and millions of Iraqis wouldn’t be dead.
But isn’t it an article of faith on the port side that all that money went to Blackwater and Halliburton? Aren’t they domestic companies?
You mean Venezuela, no? This is so nasty, all this socialism what that dipshit is instigating. Christ he’s a tool.
Dirty little socialist fucks, they are.
Well 2 billion divided by $2000 a voter results in a million new voters for ACORN.
That’ll buy aloot of MD 20/20.
I’m beginning to worry about happyfeet. The unbridled rise of socialism is feeding his angst and seems to be sucking the joie de vivre out of him.
Duh. Totally predictable given that the first one wasn’t designed to stimulate anything other than George Soros’s stumpy dirty socialist dick. We have an asshole president that’s determined to do as much fucking damage in as little time as possible. Treasonous little Soros whore.
Ah, JD is out of his meeting and PREPARED FOR BATTLE!
oh. I will feel better once it all becomes a fait accompli, BJ. I guess it is already though. So maybe not.
Socialism bothers me even more than Patrick Dempsey’s hair. It’s not natural and wholly gratuitous and are you serious?
Could be worse, feets. You could have to listen to your lifelong conservative brother explain away the Socializing of America as a “transition” brough on by “real conservatives having slept for the past eight years” and “Obama deserves his chance to do things his way.”
I told him his bald head reminded me of a dirty crystal ball being used by a charlatan seer to magically transport my money to junkies and whores and welfare lifers.
He hung up on me after calling me a “Bush lifer right wing loony.. These family feuds are tiring. I must nap.
BJT, maybe see if Michael Ledeen can get anywhere with him?
I’ll say it again. If Obama wants to shake up Washington, beguile Republicans, and get middle America to take another look at him…
…if he really wants to be A STAR…
…then he won’t sign the Spendulus Bill today. Instead, he’ll send it back to the legislature with a mandate for house and senate Democrats to garner greater bipartisan support.
I’m not kidding. In one move Obama could rewrite himself and DC’s politics for next four years.
It’d be biblical I tell ya: the Humility of America’s First Post-Partisan President could be an historic touchstone for the media’s “Camelot-Phase” of his presidency, which, sources tell me, is already in the planning stages.
Another fucking “stimulus” package ?!?!?! After the first trillions, and then a few trillion more in TARP2, why not? Good Allah, we were looking at buying a new house and a new car, but I just told Better Half that I simply will not contribute to the economy in such a way that makes it look like the dirty little socialist fucks are doing something right.
Only if he showed up at my brother’s door with a six pack of Bass Ale and some smoked ham.
And even then…
oh. Brother against brother now is it, Baracky? Maybe you can file that under “things what give me a clue I’m an evil piece of shit.” A little foresight now will be a big help to the people what have to put together your library and all I think.
steveaz:
[looks out office window]
Nope, sorry steve. Nary a sign of flying purple hippos wearing danskins and farting Christmas carols.
And bacon. You must carry bacon, BJ.
feets: I don’t blame Baracky. I blame the Republicans who used the last eight years to create this monster.
I simply will not contribute to the economy in such a way that makes it look like the dirty little socialist fucks are doing something right.
I’m way on board with this.
My father is a Baracky-nut. I try not to hold it against him. I do.
McCain’s vanity has cost this nation dear.
Well, my stimulus seems to be working already! I’ve been offered back my public health .gov job. Do I want it? Not fkn really. I’m getting the sense that less and less folks want to see anybody from the .gov saying ‘I’m here to help” and don’t want to die right now.
So, I’m here at the Embassy Suites in San Antonio watching the signing on TV. I think I broke said TV. My question is this: Is the cost of repair tax deductible or should I just seek a bailout?
Have I expressed the depth of my ire and rage against Arlen Spector? That cowardly, unprincipled, camera hogging buttinsky?
If somebody digs up the rotting corpse of Ted Bundy and wheels him around with a hand truck to Republican primary campaign stops, I will vote for him as long as he’s running against that party treasonous piece of crap.
Bitterness: The other white meat!!!!
hf – I am going to denounce myself, in advance. I do not care if it makes me a bad person. I ain’t gonna do it.
I’ve already gone on record that you’ll just have to ban me if you want me to pretend his eventual demise is anything less than justice.
Does bitterness work with OUTLAW!?
I won’t be part of the problem, JD. It’s an integrity thing I think.
Bitters, with a side of contempt, BJ.
I’m with you JD! I was thinking about finally purchasing that solid gold walking stick with the diamond handle that you can pull a sword out of. I’ve had my eye on it for quite some time. But fook it. I’ll spring for a case of Swiss Cake Rolls and then the rest goes into Ofama Bucks. (savings)
Arlen has no integrity.
I’ve noticed that our resident trolls are noticeably absent today. Perhaps the talking points have not been issued yet?
Swiss Cake Rolls until card check and they union up and there goes the pricing model.
Oooooo. Add a twist of lime and I’d chug it! I am sustained by the vision of Arlen “f*ck conservatism and fiscal restraint” Spector moaning in front of the cameras with his hangdog look and his pasty head as he concedes to Zombie Ted Bundy.
Well that and it makes me giggle.
Unfortunately, there is a house that Better Half really wants to buy, and I fell in love with the Saab SUV I drove the other day. I am just going to have to wait 4-8 years to scratch those itches.
Why not just put 8″ lifts and a conversion kit on your current Saab?
Shit, I wrote Spector off way back when I listened to the Bork Confirmation Hearings on NPR. He’s always been a douche. Bitch of it is, the locals keep re-electing him.
However, my funding of the gun and concertina wire industries continues apace.
JD: You are the change that you have to wait for.
I think if you buy an expensive imported car you’re probably a net economic negative.
Al – I put 24’s on it and had it blacked out. I denounce myself, again.
Everyone sounds like a douche on NPR though I think.
Those same locals reelect Jack Murtha after he calls his own consituents racists. I mean what the hell do you expect from Eagles fans?
Little Debbie going into Big Labor?
Congratulations, it’s a Zebra Cake. So Fudge Bar was the father.
At the time, Al Simpson managed not to hf.
Mr. Pink: Them’s fightin’ words.
Um … metaphically, of course. I’m ashamed to be from Pennsylvania. Oh, and Murtha’s district is Steelers country, Sparky.
Concertina wire prices have spiked since 20 JAN 09. Coincidence? I think not.
Only Nancy Pelosi needs to be punched more than John Murtha.
I bet they punch each other in bed.
You might want to rub wasabi on your minds eye before that image hits.
Thanks not at all, al. You are fundamentally wrong.
It’s all about fumundamentals.
Or fundaments.
Or fondant. Or fountains. I like fountains … and cake …
What?
oh. And also fondu but only if you have white chocolate sauce I think.
Hah! “White chocolate lattes and whiskers on kittens…”
oh. Al Simpson. Life was simpler then. A different age. I wonder how old Winona Ryder would have been.
whoa. that was forever ago, BJ. That makes me smile.
KITTENS!!!
A while back I told you all not to worry too much about the new President. I have to take that back now. What I have watched over the past two weeks has me spooked. Oh, I have enough to last me for a few years and as an old fart I don’t expect to be around to see the end of this. My real concern now is where this country will be going forward.
What really frosts me is the fear used today. I lived through the depression and I can tell you this is not the same. Not even close.
This man is a charlatan. Today I weep for my country.
Mel
A blast from the pat for JD and his former white chocolate latte fixation:
White chocolate lattes and whiskers on kittens.(hf)
Blond Swedish stews who wear nothing but mittens (al)
(alt) Killer dwarf clowns who wear black leather mittens.
Pinking shears cutting two holes in a hood,
These are a few of the things that are good!
When the leftists – call you fascist – when your polls are screwed!
You simply remember the things that are good – especially NUDE — BLOND STEWS!!!
Good times…
Oh, this is going to be another one of those threads, huh? I see al is showing his typical restraint and JD is probably looking up “white chocolate” in Urban Dictionary as I type.
Again, I not the absence of trolls to explain to us how this is all just wonderful.
Color me shocked.
Do you want the trolls here, Carin? I don’t. Even with them hammered we still get people arguing with them, a big exercise in futility if you ask me. And no one did so there’s that.
Then again, all this crap that’s been going on lately has made me severely annoyed with a good chunk of my fellow Americans and quite short-tempered. So maybe I should just stay out of it. From now on, I’ll click on the Cornify link in firefox and think of kittens and bunnies.
scattered PIKchurs…
well Thoresticle is probably dollar cost averaging those $2 blue chip bargains he claimed to be buying in the stock market the other day. i hear they are going for $1.23 today, perhaps get them for 72c, if you are willing to wait 5 minutes.
question. How much do you have to buy to dollar cost average to zero?
Buy short duration treasuries and munis, buy infrastructure that kicks sweet dividends. that should be 10% of your portfolio tops. rest should be cash, gold, loose uncut diamonds, and a couple of keys of coke.
It’s just that I find it interesting that so many concerned liberals were here (and at my blog) with plenty to say before Baracky got into office.
All of the sudden, they’re just not interested anymore. Cut and dry issues, and they’re avoiding comment like the fucking plague.
Come on folks. How do you feel about ACORN getting 2 BILLION dollars. Ante up.
Rove and Bolton on faux news rt now. ahh the dream team.
I want nishi to come back and have her say about Mr. Wonderful’s spendulous bill.
I worked today, and I was driving behind some bitch with no less than 5 Obama stickers on her car.
I wanted to force her to the side of the road and justify some of this bullshit.
I will not go quietly. I want people to answer for their support of the Dems.
BJ – That was hysterical. Thank you.
kelly … give me a minute.
Dow’s down over 2000 points since the first Tuesday in Nov. Think that might have been of note by the media if McCain had won?
Carin,
The moderate to conservative democrats eyes are becoming glassy. Its starting to hit some of them. It takes time to get the realization, and go past the white noise of the MSM working overtime. My liberal, father-in law conceded that the porkulus was good money thrown after bad although he still clings to the Bush’s fault meme. I give him another couple of weeks.
Ask, and you shall receive, kelly …
White Chocolate – definition #5 (#5 seems to always be a filthy definition)
When a girl gets fucked in the ass and your sperm coagulates in her anus. She then takes a shit and it comes out covered in white jizz. Hence White Chocolate.
Wow that was a pretty gross white chocolate.
Take your time, JD. If there isn’t anything on UD, I’m sure you can make something up. Well, al will anyway.
JD,
That’s pretty bad, but still doesn’t rise to the level of parsnip.
Well, for the record, I wasn’t really asking, JD, merely noting.
Oh, and did parsnip get whacked?
What Big D said.
Big D – You could not be more correct. What kind of sick demented twisted individual would make up something like that?
“I will not go quietly. I want people to answer for their support of the Dems.”
I’m with OTTurkey on this one, Carin. I have many non-political savvy moderate friends who are already slipping into the “Well, I just wanted change and Bush was so horrible” meme. The Obama lovefest is fading fast, but I don’t expect their admission of massive stupidity any time soon.
I just wish that people that don’t bother to inform themselves on the issues would stay the fuck away from the voting booth. It’s like passing out driver’s licenses to kindergarteners. Mayhem follows.
I am developing a theory that damn near any word or phrase has some really disgusting slang meaning on urban dictionary.
“What kind of sick demented twisted individual would make up something like that?”
Paging alppuccino, white courtesy phone. Paging alppuccino…
Log Cabin – I like your tone here recently. Really, I do.
Oh, I can only hope for some sort of mea culpa, which prolly will never happen. When they revert to a “Well Bush made me do it” answer, then I’m going to ram the spendulus bill down their throats. And whatever else foolish bullshit comes to pass.
Sure, there were many non-political kool-aid voters. But, what about folks like nishi. She can’t claim ignorance, what with her stupendously high IQ and all that.
BJTexas,
Let it be said that I gave Obama a fair-go. He had his chance to be teh star, but he wouldn’t take it.
Big of me, huh?
Carin, are you trying to draw shaytana out of hiding? You might as well go around saying Voldemort.
Same here. An old friend stopped by last Friday for a drink and was obviously sanguine about the crap sandwich bill. Emboldened by a few glasses of wine, I asked him why he would be so blase about mortgaging his children’s future. He replied that “people smarter than me” would be putting the money to good use. I nearly choked.
Lefties don’t do mea culpas. Those can only come from adults. And I’ll bet Nishi is frothing because Obama hasn’t overturned the “stem-cell research ban” which of course didn’t ban a damn thing.
And steveaz, I too was one of the damn fools willing to give Teh One the benefit of the doubt. He failed, and has forged ahead to live up to the worst expectations I had for him.
I just wish that people that don’t bother to inform themselves on the issues would stay the fuck away from the voting booth. It’s like passing out driver’s licenses to kindergarteners. Mayhem follows.
Shout it from the roof top, brother. And no representation without taxation either- you no buy the pizza, you no picka the topping.
Comment by JD on 2/17 @ 4:41 pm #
I am developing a theory that damn near any word or phrase has some really disgusting slang meaning on urban dictionary.
On a lark, I went over to Urban Dictionary and picked what I thought was something safe – WRONG!
“Easter Bunny” has some other definitions that I have never heard of.
This is surely all veiled code-word racism. I just have to figure it out.
Big D – Thank you, I would have never thought to look at that one. My theory holds, for now. I suspect that this theory is far more sound than the theory of AGW.
I gave Teh One till inauguration. He then confirmed everything I suspected of him during the campaign. Socialist street punk with delusions of grandeur who’s worked the system all his life. Raised by his white mother and maternal grandmother? Goes with the black half of his non-existant dad because he can then work the system.
Donovan was the first artist to be signed to CBS/Epic Records by then-new Administrative Vice President Clive Davis, who later became head of the CBS Record empire.
Not that I’m not dubious about anything that comes out of Annenberg, but there was this link in the comments thread at the Say Anything post: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_the_stimulus_bill_include_a_52.html
Thoughts?
Watching the replay of Barky’s remarks at the signing. Can this guy do anything without a teleprompter. That back and forth can’t be good for the neck. Looks like he’s watching a tennis match.
“Can this guy do anything without a teleprompter.”
C’mon, man. Dude can stop the seas from rising without one.
Interesting link, Mal. My question to factcheck would be: Even if it doesn’t go to ACORN, how is “Neighborhood Stabilization” stimulative?
C’mon, man. Dude can stop the seas from rising without one.
Well, that’s a given. I mean besides that.
Then, no.
oh. Annenberg is dirty socialists. You can’t trust them. They were founded to spread dirty socialist propaganda.
See how they are? Annenberg dirty socialist lying shithead Joe Miller says…
Here is what their gay-assed George Soros-funded factcheck elides…
ACORN is made up of several legally distinct parts including local non-profits, a national lobbying organization and the ACORN Housing Corporation.
[…]
ACORN fought weakening of the CRA in 1991, staging a two-day takeover of the House Banking Committee hearing room. It also established ACORN Housing Corporation to service people moving into homes under the housing campaign, rehabilitated hundreds of houses addressed by CRA.
The sort of funds that the stimulus provides are exactly the sort of funds these dirty socialist housing pimps were created to exploit I think. It’s easy enough to figure once you understand that Annenberg is dirty socialists.
Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls
See? The rehabilitating is what lying socialist Joe says ACORN never does. That would be what we call a LIE I think. Asshole socialist.
I’m worried about your well being Haps. You should have a drink or three.
Or eggrolls. Your choice
just remember if little debbie gets unionized don’t eat the swiss cake rolls made on mondays
“What kind of sick demented twisted individual would make up something like that?â€Â
Paging alppuccino, white courtesy phone. Paging alppuccino…
Hey, my stuff is subtle and clever.
I’m all good. Here go. ACORN on its own site has housing rehabilitation as the very first part of its dirty socialist anti-American agenda… Is that the sort of activity that the lying bastard at Annenberg assures us that ACORN has no interest in? Why, yes, it is…
Semi-related news With oil flirting with $35 a barrel, Russia has its “Black Tuesday”.
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) – Russian stocks tumbled Tuesday, prompting the RTS and the Micex stock exchanges to suspend trading for one hour at 4:05 p.m. Moscow time. The dollar-denominated RTS stock index plunged 9.4%, while the ruble-denominated Micex stock index fell 9.6%. The decline in Russia followed a tumble in oil prices and declines on global stock markets. In New York, the Market Vectors Russia ETF (RSX 11.01, -2.09, -15.9%) , which tracks the Russian markets, tumbled 14.4%. End of Story
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Russian-stocks-tumble-trading-suspended/story.aspx?guid={8FB99F30-712D-4980-A861-8C070365C221}
Dark times ahead.
I can’t drink while there’s dirty socialists afoot. Swiss cake rolls I could do. I had a Smart Ones microwave ice cream sundae after lunch. Sort of a retarded food product I think but it had been in the freezer since summer.
JD,
You should check definition #6 for thor on UD. Wonder if that’s what he had in mind?
“Given the responsibility, the feeling was to retain and attract [executives] some modest increase was warranted.”
Geez, you think?
Also how much government money does the government have to take before their big wigs need to give up the private jets?
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090213/NEWS0108/902140324/1055/
I can’t drink while there’s dirty socialists afoot.
I understand. All I can say is that I was fairly pissed while watching Barky earlier. I ordered a bottle from room service and my attitude has improved. Temporary, but I’ll take it for now.
They can rehabilitate the homes, and since the people living in them don’t appreciate them because they didn’t have to work to get them, they will trash them again, and then they can apply for more rehabilitation loans.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
#142 Techie
Dark times ahead.
Do you suspect some of Russia’s neighbors might being getting a bit nervous? Especially those who, until recently, had the Soviet boot on their necks?
“If this is true, then there has to be some way to get an injunction against it…”
It’s from Michelle Bachman. What do you think?
Well when the movie “Bring IT ON” spawns 3 sequels then you know the end times are near.
And you’ve read this, right, meya?
Dark times ahead cause of this country is crawling with dirty socialists, Techie. Oh look there’s meya.
“Is this guy still freakin campaigning?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18934.html”
And people thought Obama would be too inexperienced for this job.
Hey, Meya, can you explain to me how billions for ACORN isn’t pork, but stimulus?
Cranky, I can do tours in Detroit proving your point up there.
“And you’ve read this, right, meya?”
Of course. The bill, and probably other Obama initiatives — like the faith based ones — expands the eligibility of some grant programs to non-profits. This what people are referring to when they say that there’s an “ACORN earmark” in obama’s plans. Its silly, because it makes thousands of groups, of which ACORN is one, eligible. That’s quite far from an earmark. It’s like saying that the Bush ‘faith based initiatives’ was an earmark for methodists, when in fact they were just eligible.
oh. Tom Jones is always on tour too meya except he’s not a dirty socialist Hugo Chavez wannabe.
In which case, meya, I apologize to you. But these lying, cheating, partisan f*cks shouldn’t see a single dime.
Who cares if it’s ACORN or some other dirty socialist anti-American mouseketeers club what benefits from Baracky’s phony “stimulus” con game? The point is that Baracky is on a mission to fuck up our little country and he’s gonna sign on as many different groups of redistributey thugs as he possibly can. Everyone gets a t-shirt.
“Hey, Meya, can you explain to me how billions for ACORN isn’t pork, but stimulus?”
It probably fits your definition of pork and my definition of stimulus.
oh hey. We is outta Ho Hos again.
Again? Damn foodstampers and their stimulus. Ok. I’ll order em up again. Damn. Third time this week.
Narrowing the definition of torture in time of war: horrible.
Deliberately submitting millions of bogus registrations: teh awesome!
It takes a lot of faith to grow into a mighty oak.
A lot of people don’t know that.
Well if stimulus is any government spending by definition, as our new SocialistInChief is trying to say, then he should get rid of Geithner and appoint Ted Stevens because the Bridge to Nowhere was the single greatest piece of stimulus ever written. F@cking retards.
how do we know that the “bridge to nowhere” isn’t in the bill?
By what logic would it not be in the bill I wonder.
Maybe it would actually create jobs.
It probably fits your definition of pork and my definition of stimulus.
Hint: that would be because you are a thief.
Hope that helps!
Hey, now, bridges to nowhere are going to provide some of those stimulating jobs. Just you wait and see. Prosperity is just around the corner. All we need to do is spend a few more trillion and everyone will be employed!
I see that meya is here now. Has she explained why this is a good thing yet? I don’t see her posts.
Hey, my stuff is subtle and clever.
Piquant almost.
“Hint: that would be because you are a thief.”
Wikipedia defines pork as similar to earmarks, ie, as spending directed to particular constituents. As I pointed out about, this stuff doesn’t have that level of direction in it. But your definition of pork may be different than wikipedia’s.
sophist.
baracky is like andy jackson: he let his folks trash the place
Meya care to explain a 2 billion dollar train that happens to go to Harry Reid’s Las Vegas?
It is now to be built for Harry Reid. Nevada has the need. It will now be the “Bridge from Nowhere to Nowhere”. Part of the Lightworker Rail Line from the Obamaland exhibit at Disneyland to the Chavez Memorial Casino in Vegas. A monument to this Congress and President.
“It probably fits your definition of pork and my definition of stimulus.”
And that, in a nutshell, is the problem. Tell me, meya, how is 8 billion for a train joining LA and Vegas qualify as anything other than pork? Granted, that is but one part of the bill, but 8 billion is quite a figure.
Whoops, typo, sorry.
Wikipedia defines pork as similar to earmarks
Merriam-Webster defines thief as “one that steals especially stealthily or secretly ; also : one who commits theft or larceny”
Although technically, I suppose, you’re a receiver of stolen goods. Too cowardly to steal yourself, so you elect thugs to steal and enslave for you.
“Meya care to explain a 2 billion dollar train that happens to go to Harry Reid’s Las Vegas?”
Someone lied to you.
And you’re too stupid to wonder why, having elected those thugs, that they should bother to share with you.
You’re in for a big surprise, girlie.
An unpleasant one.
“Tell me, meya, how is 8 billion for a train joining LA and Vegas qualify as anything other than pork? ”
And you too. Do y’all only read right wing websites or something?
Linking to Think Progress? C’mon
Has Barky paid off your student loans yet, meya?
How about you get back to us when that happens, hmmm?
Someone needs to hurry up and head over to Ted Steven’s wikipedia page and add “fiscal genius” before it is too late.
Meya,
I have been nice to you in the past. I think you can overlook a typo. Still, whether it is 1, 2, 8, or 50 billion, please tell me how the train is stimulative.
“Linking to Think Progress? C’mon”
It was sourced to politico too. Does that change the facts for you? Does that make it an earmark when there wasn’t one?
Does that make it an earmark when there wasn’t one?
It makes you a liar.
A clumsy one.
I’m wasting my time with meya, yes?
Yes, you are, Big D.
Oh, well, Politico. That makes it better!
/sarc
“I have been nice to you in the past. I think you can overlook a typo. Still, whether it is 1, 2, 8, or 50 billion, please tell me how the train is stimulative.”
Building a train is stimulus like any other government infrastructure building. But you caught how the problem with whoever lied to you wasn’t with your number, but with the idea that this money is earmarked for the CA-NV line.
OK. I’m done.
So she links to a TP piece saying the train costs nothing, but which in turn links to the Politico piece which says this
“Railroads made Chicago, and now a Chicago-rich White House wants to return the favor: remaking rail with a huge new federal investment in high-speed passenger trains.
The $787.2 billion economic recovery bill  to be signed by President Barack Obama on Tuesday  dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail, most of which was added in the final closed-door bargaining at the instigation of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel.
It’s a sum that far surpasses anything before attempted in the United States  and more is coming. Administration officials told Politico that when Obama outlines his 2010 budget next week, it will ask for $1 billion more for high-speed rail in each of the next five years.”
Building a train is stimulus like any other government infrastructure building. But you caught how the problem with whoever lied to you wasn’t with your number, but with the idea that this money is earmarked for the CA-NV line.
After this I’m done. Don’t call it an earmark if it makes you feel better, meya. It is still federal money spent on a state project. Please spare me the commerce clause argument.
I think Obama got America confused with Europe because trains will only be economically feasible between Las Vegas and California and maybe extending Metro to Dulles. Please if someone can tell me where in the fuck it would be worth it economically to spend 8 billion on railroads in the US anymore, since we already have a hell of alot of railmiles already built, feel free to let me know. To say that this would not go to build a railway between Las Vegas and California is pretty retarded.
The big point meya is it is all a bunch of we said/they said because nobody really fucking knows where the money is going.
Meya seriously, use your brain for a second and tell me where this 9 billion now, by your own article, would be going to build trains? We already have Amtrak, which is failing and is a blackhole of federal dollars. Please please with that huge brain of yours, enlighten me where this magical lightrail train would be built? I am dying to know.
meya hasn’t quite realized yet that
the Handsome PrinceObama isn’t going to makeDaddy“rich people” give her the money tobuy every Barbie and My Little Ponypay off the student loans she incurred for her useless pseudo-education.Nope. It’s all going to union thugs. Union thugs to build the “infrastructure”. Unfireable, permanent union thugs to run the empty trains back and forth.
You see, despite her fine education, those union thugs are smarter than meya. They demand something for their vote. If Blowbama doesn’t deliver the loot, they’ll go elsewhere post haste.
The only segment of the economy that’s going to be stimulated by this will be the coke dealers, titty bars, and casinos.
How’s your rack, meya? If it’s nice, you might be able to get in on the gravy train.
Who the hell doesn’t understand the difference between a lightrail train travelling between the caplitals of 2 neighboring countries, and a lightrail train traveling the lenght of a city? I mean you really can not be this stupid. WTF will it link NY and DC? Already linked. Public transportation in Detroit? Already happened. You have got to be trying to appear this stupid.
My spelling sucks. That should read capitals. Relating back to the economic stupidity of most public transportation type railroads in the US as compared to Europe. Sorry I should learn to not be so eager with the Say It! button.
There’s a certain population density above which rail transport makes sense.
As Mr. Pink pointed out, all of those places already have rail transit. Boswash and Chicagoland, mainly.
If you use your brain for a second, it is not like people just made up the connection between 9 billion for light transit railroads and Harry Reids home state. It is logical, it is probable, and it is where the money will be spent. Our money. If I am wrong I will gladly admit it. Hell I hope this entire bill gets repealed.
OK meya. One last thing. My first job was sorting crowns in a bottling plant. I rose in the organization through the years to build a nice life for myself and my family. I tell you this just so you don’t go off on the “Lucky man” tack. I always looked at taxes as a necessary expense. I had problems with the expansion of government, but it was something I could live with. Now, in one fell swoop, the feds have spent over 1 trillion with less than a week of debate.
If the fact that no one had read the bill before they voted, or that no one can really tell you what is in it doesn’t give you pause, I don’t know what to tell you.
My accountant tells me that I have to write a five figure check on the 15th of April. Fairly pissed, I am.
“Please please with that huge brain of yours, enlighten me where this magical lightrail train would be built? ”
Earlier you were talking about highspeed rail (HSR), not lightrail. Here is some work from the Bush DOT on HSR corridors:
http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1272
What you folks think that HSR is only about building new track where there are no railroads? You asked what i thought about reid’s money, and there you have it.
Now I’m done.
So what. Bush spent like a drunken sailor. I’m still done.
So how much money is going to be spent on high speed rail, meya, and where is it going to be spent.
Exactly.
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahhaa. You have to be kidding me.
“Building a train is stimulus like any other government infrastructure building.”
Hogwash. Jeff G’s own city of Denver has been on a light-rail/diesel rail bender for about 20 years now, and none of these lines and bond issues have provided anything quantitative in the way of a stimulus. RTD’s been an effective propogandist in convincing metro-area residents that urban railways are necessary, but their projects are better at wasting money than they are at actually stimulating the local economy. Even with federal dollars, they end up costing taxpayers far more than what they were sold for, and even with little “urban districts” popping up on the suburban lines, their impact on the city’s economy is tepid, at best, because there are multiple ways to access the areas that the stations were constructed in a more transportation-convenient manner. Light-rail has been good for taking people to see sporting events and for little kids to get their “oohs and aahs” riding a train, but not much else.
Same thing with the airport. Federico Pena had a hard-on to build an airport the minute he got into office, and then- Gov. Roy Romer was right there with him saying that it would help “stimulate” the economy. 20 years later, we have a boondoggle airport that ended up costing an unknown amount of money (estimates range from $8 billion to $15 billion or more), that has never been developed to the extent that Pena promoted, that even left-wingers call (D)isaster (I)n (A)ction, and that just happened to open up when Denver’s tech economy started roaring and so gained the benefits of the increased air traffic (traffic that would have gone through Stapleton Airport regardless). Again, no quantitative proof that this was a stimulus, except to BAE for putting in a shitty “automated” luggage carrier system that had to be scrapped.
If Denver’s experience is anything like what is in store for the rest of the nation with these infrastructure projects, then Obama really doesn’t know what he’s doing and is going to continue to throw money that doesn’t exist down a hole on the pretext that he’s stimulating the economy. Any economic gains that occur in the next 4 years are going to be irrelevant to the percieved infrastructure spending, not because of it.
“So how much money is going to be spent on high speed rail, meya, and where is it going to be spent.”
AFAIK the bill didn’t pick among the several potential HSR projects. I think this is kind of a benefit. While congress does have power to spend, i like it being delegated to administrative processes. I imagine now, like other federal grantmaking and spending in areas like highways or other infrastructure, we’ll have a process for that.
“Hogwash. Jeff G’s own city of Denver has been on a light-rail/diesel rail bender for about 20 years now, and none of these lines and bond issues have provided anything quantitative in the way of a stimulus.”
Stimulus is the spending and the further effects of spending by the people who are recipients of hte money. Whether the project is a good investment or a bridge to nowhere is a different concept than the stimulus value it has. The CBO had a recent discussion stimulus which i recommend.
Do you recommend the CBO’s entire discussion of the stimulus, meya?
Quantitatively speaking, the construction of Coors Field, a single-sport baseball field, was a bigger economic stimulus than either light rail or DIA because it caused business owners to shut down the flophouses and wino bars in Lower Downtown Denver, and try to attract 20-somethings and families that actually had a shit-load of money to spend. If you want to argue that building a train is an economic stimulus, you need to cite where the construction of the train line itself in the last 30 years was attributed to altering the urban landscape to such an extent that it completely altered the economic demographics of the people that patronized the area. More often, you’ll find that the line itself was built to further accomodate changes in this demographic that had already taken place (such as Denver, Phoenix, or Salt Lake City), and that the construction itself did not play a role in stimulating the area.
AFAIK the bill didn’t pick among the several potential HSR projects. I think this is kind of a benefit. While congress does have power to spend, i like it being delegated to administrative processes. I imagine now, like other federal grantmaking and spending in areas like highways or other infrastructure, we’ll have a process for that.
So it is kind of like a five, or seven, or eight billion dollar petty cash box for HSR.
You people are fucking insane.
stimulus is the spending
“stimulus” is a myth and our dirty socialist Soros puppet dipshit president knows it. That’s why the me-and-my-woman-we-just winned-us-the-lottery dirty socialist prick “isn’t ruling out a second economic plan.”*
Interesting that what Baracky’s AP propagandist Liz Sidoti wrote this morning was… “President Barack Obama isn’t ruling out a second economic stimulus plan, a top aide said Tuesday” … but she toned that down cause it makes it too obvious that our president is running a con game on what he must think is an incredibly stupid little country of morons.
If he didn’t think the stimulus would do the trick as written, why didn’t our hokey piece of shit gay-assed president stand and fight for an effective plan? Not a bad question is it, fascist meya?
Good points Ted Nugent’s Soul Patch. BTW, you have some venison stuck in your…..right there.. in the…OK got it.
My problem with this is, why the hell should Nebraska be paying for Nevada. Or Texas for California. If it’s a good idea to build a rail, they should fund it themselves.
Oh, and no offense HF, but California can go fuck itself
A stimulus plan is simply a bill that doesn’t get examined and is pushed through too damn quickly. It will usually contain a lot of funding for new programs that will never go away. Most of that bill that just passed is new, permanent spending. Enjoy, suckers!
“Stimulus is the spending and the further effects of spending by the people who are recipients of hte money.”
You’re missing the point–whatever stimulus these projects provided was completely incidental to the massive growth that was already taking place in Denver during the last 20 years. It was the tech bubble in the 90s and the housing bubble in this decade that stimulated the local economy, not DIA or light rail. If light rail was the economic stimulus you claim that it is, then Obama should be giving billions to Denver in order to get ALL the originally stated goals of FastTracks accomplished. If it was that important, he would have highlighted this project during his stop in Denver today as a classic example of the kinds of infrastructure projects he is arguing for. That a major metro-area wide transportation project, in the very city where he was nominated, doesn’t even register on his radar should give you pause for thought as to just how “stimulative” these actually are.
A better question is whether the rail will even be built. The neo-luddite wing of the fascist looters demands conformity to the whims of the blue-tailed starlings and we can’t have any metal track introducing man-induced vicariance, so them there lawyers are gonna have to fill briefs as far as the eye can see and that $8 billion is now $7.5, now 6.3 and so forth. Well played Mr. Reid, you sly devil.
Hell, if Obama was really serious about the government stimulating local economies, he’d scrap the BRAC acts and build or expand our military bases here in the states. Ask any local Chamber of Commerce how much money these places pump into the local economy every year, and that’s AFTER they are constructed.
“Do you recommend the CBO’s entire discussion of the stimulus, meya?”
Sure. I’ve cited to it here before, I believe.
“So it is kind of like a five, or seven, or eight billion dollar petty cash box for HSR.”
Yup.
“If you want to argue that building a train is an economic stimulus, you need to cite where the construction of the train line itself in the last 30 years was attributed to altering the urban landscape to such an extent that it completely altered the economic demographics of the people that patronized the area.”
Here I think we’re using different definitions. The construction itself is the stimulus because of the money spent to construct. Further benefits come from the investment value, as you’re describing, and woudn’t be counted as “stimulus” in the way that economists and people like the CBO are referring to stimulus spending. A bridge to nowhere and the same bridge linking a factory to its workers and markets are both ‘stimulus.’ But you see how the latter has more investment value.
no offense taken
The construction itself is the stimulus because of the money spent to construct.
President Barack Obama isn’t ruling out a second economic stimulus plan, a top aide said Tuesday, explaining that the first package was just a joke to con the American people into handing money to various socialist anti-American supporters and to borrow such an egregious amount of money so as to drive a stake into what President Obama has termed “the dirty free enterprise system.”
And what does the entire CBO discussion of the stimulus state that it’s likely to accomplish, counselor?
We need to write Newsweek a letter happy telling them to change the cover of their magazine to “They are all Socialist now.” Hopefully with a big D right on the bottom right.
Dan rationality left the building I do believe. Seriously, have you spoken to an Obama supporter in the last 2 months?
Oh, crap Pink. I never thought of it that way. Can I change my moniker?
That’s exactly where we are, Mr. Pink. The Democratic party is dead and Baracky pisses on its corpse every damn day.
“And what does the entire CBO discussion of the stimulus state that it’s likely to accomplish, counselor?”
Page 3 has the net effects on GDP and employment and Table 1 here summarizes these impacts:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9987/Gregg_Year-by-Year_Stimulus.pdf
Although I think this is only going to be discussing the stimulus impact, not the investment impact that Ted Nugent’s Soul Patch has been inquiring about.
Big D doesn’t mean big democrat. Shit, now I have to change. Every Dave on this blog has been a total dick so I can’t do that. I dunno. What do you think?
Yeah go ahead change it if you want to. Someone needs to make it official.
“In contrast to its positive near-term macroeconomic effects, the legislation would reduce
output slightly in the long run, CBO estimates, as would other similar proposals. The
principal channel for this effect is that the legislation would result in an increase in
government debt. To the extent that people hold their wealth as government bonds
rather than in a form that can be used to finance private investment, the increased debt
would tend to reduce the stock of productive private capital. In economic parlance, the
debt would “crowd out†private investment.”
That’s a good thing, right, meya? That’s forward thinking?
#224
maya. The CBO has stated that this’stimulus package’ is going to wind up costing us over 3 trillion dollars in the next 10 years. Recall the little discussion we had on economics? No new wealth is being created,maya. Wealth is a stimulus for an economy, not tax dollars that could have been better spent if left in the hands of their original owners.Governments cannot create wealth! I don’t care how many bridges he wants built. They are being built with stolen money.
“That’s a good thing, right, meya? That’s forward thinking?”
A good thing? Its a cost. I think the good thing is the gains in employment we’ll have this year and next. I’ve said before how I view this bill as countercyclical — taking production from a future upswing and time-shifting it to this downturn so as to smooth out our economic cycles.
So be it. No more Big D. Never thought about it in terms of D and R.
I’ve said before how I view this bill as countercyclical
No one really cares how you view it, fascist, except perhaps your fellow fascists.
Keep the name, just say that it refers to the Cowboys Defense. I hate the Cowboys mind you, but it is a reason other than D.
“I’ve said before how I view this bill as countercyclical”
If you admit it is a cycle then why the hell would you want to blow a trillion on something that will not effect the point that it is a cycle?
taking production from a future upswing and time-shifting it to this downturn so as to smooth out our economic cycles.
How are you defining “production” in that sentence?
I don’t know. Pink. You did see the last game in Philly? I’ve been a Cowboys fan since the days of Craig Morton, Walt Garrison, Bob Hayes, et al. That was the first time I have turned off a game before the final gun.
I give up they do not understand any rational arguments. They have been supping on hatred and stupidity for the past 8 years it should be no suprise they shit it out.
so how does sanfrannangrandma’s mouse provide stimulus? how does putting people on welfare equal stimulus?
Hahahahhaahha. As a Redskins fan I loved every minute of that game.
‘How are you defining “production†in that sentence?’
GDP.
Fuck You, Pink. And I mean that in the Cowboys/Redskins rivalry way.
Next year!
What fascist meya won’t say is that the CBO says the recession will end without Baracky’s gay-assed phony dirty socialist “stimulus.”
That’s from huge CBO PDF here on page 2.
So why is Baracky all doom and gloom? We may need a SECOND stimulus says the neophyte dipshit’s propaganda team. Our little country is being played. A trillion plus dollars in debt played.
High Speed Rail:
The stimulus bill provides money persuant to 49 USC 26106 which says in part (emphasis mine):
the bonds are for the purpose of financing–
`(A) projects to provide a major portion of the infrastructure required to complete a railroad passenger transportation corridor, for transportation described in section 20102(1)(A)(ii), designed for sustained cruising speeds of 125 miles per hour or more, but only if the Secretary determines that the projects are part of a viable and comprehensive railroad passenger transportation corridor design for high-speed intercity rail passenger service; or
`(B) projects for the Alaska Railroad;
See this map for the locations of those approved corridors.
“so how does sanfrannangrandma’s mouse provide stimulus? how does putting people on welfare equal stimulus?”
Here is the CBO describing how different things are stimulus:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8916/01-15-Econ_Stimulus.pdf
meya’s version of Obamanomics: eating tomorrow’s seed corn today. That explains the empty feeling, anyway.
people who don’t need the obamament.
appeals to salt marsh mouses and authority don’t do much
My hate for the cowboys remains undiminished by their last loss of the season. I only quit hating Miami after they had teh season of beatdown.
I don’t think anyone can hate the lions now. They are just so pathetic.
Lions? Who are these Lions you speak of?
“What fascist meya won’t say is that the CBO says the recession will end without Baracky’s gay-assed phony dirty socialist “stimulus.—
They say the recession will end but they also say to expect 9.0 unemployment in 2009, 8.7 in 2010 and 7.5 in 2011.
how’s come libtards can’t argue from their own experience? it is always some pointed headed elitist they point to.
Hey. Y’all wanna see something scary? That would be right here. Dirty socialists. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many copies. And they have a plan.
…they also say to expect 9.0 unemployment in 2009, 8.7 in 2010 and 7.5 in 2011.
I sincerely hope they are that good.
“appeals to salt marsh mouses and authority don’t do much”
I’m trying to appeal to someone neutral instead of you relying on hearing it from me.
Dash, don’t forget the Environmental Impact Studies.
And they only have until 30 September 2011 to get all that money
blownspent.the recession will end but
Well why don’t we take that that case to the American people, fascist meya?
Obama has to rush some more permanent programs hidden inside a little stimulus before people can see what he and Pelosi and the other dirty socialists are doing. That first trillion is nothing compared to how much those new programs are going to cost a few years down the road.
Light rail is pretty much fail. We have it here in Minneapolis, and all it does is connect the megamall to the airport and then to downtown. I use it a lot, true, but it cost a billion dollars or so and the buses that used to do that route were probably doing the job at the same cost. Of course, that doesn’t stop them from wanting to build another line connecting downtown Mpls to downtown St. Paul. That will cost over a billion. Of course, since our bridge fell down a while ago (they were actually going to run the train over the old bridge, isn’t that special?) it may be that they are scaling back on the stupid. Not likely, but possible.
So fuckall with the opportunity costs of this enormous pig. Fuckall with the compound interest costs incurred and the compound investment interest lost due to spending the stinking pig of a bill. Great economic theory you got going there, brilliant.
Comment by meya on 2/17 @ 9:15 pm #
“What fascist meya won’t say is that the CBO says the recession will end without Baracky’s gay-assed phony dirty socialist “stimulus.â€Ââ€Â
They say the recession will end but they also say to expect 9.0 unemployment in 2009, 8.7 in 2010 and 7.5 in 2011.
And this so called shit stained stimulus bill will effect that none at all. Oh except to help some D’s win reelection and waste a hell of alot our money. Not imaginary money mind you, my money.
Hell, if Obama was really serious about the government stimulating local economies, he’d scrap the BRAC acts and build or expand our military bases
But that’s contrary to the purpose.
The idea is to push the cost of these things up so much , and stretch the government’s ability to pay them so far that the decision will have to be made that we can no longer afford to be the world’s economic and military leader.
And the only cure will be more Euro-policies. (less cowbell)
Shorter meya: “Any spending is good spending.”
Why do I not just get forced to work on this railroad like some 1800’s Chinese immigrant? I mean if they are going to take 5 hours of my wages every day then screw it. Give me a crust of bread, a tent, and some opium at least that would be honest.
Fuck it. We need to forget about anything useful and just spend all the money the presses can handle on building gigantic pyramid burial chambers for The One and his family against the day they shuffle of this mortal coil.
I bet we can outdo Cheops if we work at it.
They say the recession will end but Baracky will still need a second stimulus cause he has absolutely no expectation that the first one will do the job. It was a con what fascist meya wants to help perpetrate.
news from the obamament isn’t neutral. letting people spend their own money as they see fit is neutral.
Mmmm, pork cheops.
not all bad news. you can buy NYT stocks at the same price of NYT Sunday edition
Can you cite any example where that’s worked in the past?
Oh, we’ll be needing new rules to make sure that the just written new rules will be followed the way our governors want us to follow them. And then newer rules to enforce the new rules meant to enforce the just written rules. And guess what? Another round of rules to make up the unforeseen deficiencies in the newest set of rules intended to enforce the new rules meant to enforce the first set of new rules. This will go on for awhile until enough people die that someone steps up to say stop.
Once upon a time in Afghanistan, Kabul was a city of orchards. It was a major Peach exporter in that part of the world and people travelled to Kabul every Summer because the temperature didn’t ususally rise above 80 degrees F there because of all the trees.
The Taliban found themselves in need of an economic stimulus after they took over the country. Lumber was earning more than peaches, so the natural decision was to cut down the trees. The wood was sold to Pakistan.
Today there are so few trees in Kabul it has been a made a crime to cut one down or seriously injure one.
The Taliban were smarter than our Congress and President. They actually got something in return for what they sold even if was a short term profit that ensured a long term debt.
#
Comment by RTO Trainer on 2/17 @ 9:31 pm #
I’ve said before how I view this bill as countercyclical  taking production from a future upswing and time-shifting it to this downturn so as to smooth out our economic cycles.
Can you cite any example where that’s worked in the past?
Well, sure RTO. She can cite many professors who told her it would work. If only it was done right….
I’ve said before how I view this bill as countercyclical  taking production from a future upswing and time-shifting it to this downturn so as to smooth out our economic cycles.
Can you cite any example where that’s worked in the past?
Where a big government Democrat flat-lined the economy? I can think of a couple…
i don’t need no stinkin’ cbo to know A HISTORY MAKING pork barrel spending binge from grandmanan ain’t going to do shit
Meya,
My grandfather rode with JEB Stuart. His grandfather rode with Light Horse Harry Lee. My point is we are not that far from our beginning. Look how far you have diverted from the original path. Read some history young lady.
i like my “salt marsh mouse” fried
Oh, they’re gonna make
youit work Big D,or so they’ll tell us………until it doesn’t……….then they’ll blame
themselvesyou for the failure.Where a big government Democrat flat-lined the economy? I can think of a couple…
Where an ill-advised foray into socialist fantasy (whether of the national or international flavor) destroyed a country? I can think of even more.
i like my “salt marsh mouse†fried
Plenty of rabbits and squirrels in my neighborhood, with the occasional turkey and deer wandering through.
At least for now.
What’s the worst really is that Baracky lied about the whole thing. The CBO said the economy would have grown anyway. It was all just a socialist lie. And now he wants to do it again. What a piece of shit we have in our White House. Unimaginable.
#
Comment by NC on 2/17 @ 10:07 pm #
Meya,
My grandfather rode with JEB Stuart. His grandfather rode with Light Horse Harry Lee. My point is we are not that far from our beginning. Look how far you have diverted from the original path. Read some history young lady.
This is what I grew up, with. I wouldn’t trade this for anything. Probably why I am now a history nut. Thanks, Mel
And you are4 still talking about forecasting. I’m talking about history.
When in the past have we been able to rob from Peter to pay Paul and had it work?
Gather round lads!
how different is the “salt marsh mouse” from the loser in the peanut butter trap last night?
she’s a fascist tool, RTO. She creeps me out. Skanky fascist drone.
She also cites things that she either hasn’t read or failed to understand, hf.
Accepting as accurate what the CBO says in the docs she links, GDP will declineand unemployment will be down, but the employed will be earning less. And this is a “good thing” somehow.
It’s fertile ground for fascism, RTO. That’s Mr. Soros’s goal I think. meya obviously hopes so anyway.
This is not what we fought for. Not to sound like the crazy uncle, but my generation dealt with much worse without crying for the damn government to come in and help us. I grew up in the 30s on a beet farm in Nyssa, OR. Times were tough. We survived on beets. Traded for the rest. I haven’t tasted a beet in nearly 70 years.Times may be tough, but you are nowhere near the depression.
Damnit!
Mark Faber in the WSJ:
Mel, my father was born in ’26 grew up on a farm in South Dakota. Sometimes the only meat they had was when he or one of his brothers shot a rabbit. He gained 20 lbs when he joined the navy in ’43 because it was the first time he was ever able to get enough to eat and be full. I’m sure you can relate.
Like you said, this isn’t anything like the depression. Yet. Obama is going to do his best to make it so.
Damn Straight!
“When in the past have we been able to rob from Peter to pay Paul and had it work?”
Well we worked up a debt to pay for the depression and wwII and came out with our post-war economy and generally decreasing debts. Until the 1980’s
“Accepting as accurate what the CBO says in the docs she links, GDP will declineand unemployment will be down, but the employed will be earning less. And this is a “good thing†somehow.”
The idea is we have more now in a recession and less later when not in a recession.
meya, you lost all credibility when the CBO said the recession would have ended this year all on its own, without your president’s vicious unprovoked rape of our treasury. I don’t care what you think, fascist. The economy wasn’t asking for it.
John Steele Gordon, in WSJ, short history of the national debt:
Squirrel gravy, crankyd. Remember it well.
“…simply starting to tell the truth.”
Yes, that thing what whose name must not be named. Also those people who ought not be named, you see, for their families, cough..Dodd..ahem…Frank, hmmm yes. All that delicious oil and natty gas we could be sipping up but instead we’re prostrate before the Russians begging them not to kick us off the base we built. Yep, the warm glow of those nuclear power plants, all those ones whose evolution got stunted by dirty socialist China Syndrome propaganda what would now be shed sized underground personal Atomo 3000s, replace the fuel every decade; gas thorium reactors sans waste products or what have you that would fill up the lithium hearts of all those stupid non-existent cars what Baracky and his woman loves so much so maybe they would have just stayed in Chicago and extorted what they could small time instead of dooming our increasingly irrational accumulation of people to a less prosperous existence. Yep. Serfs up.
Bruce Springsteen – Badlands (East Berlin)
What ticks me off is how people like meya so easily buy the bs that this is a depression. Not being able to find your brand of coffee is not a depression. I remember weeks on end eating beets and whatever we could shoot. Sometimes we traded beets for potatoes. That was a treat. Now all you have to do is go down to the market and buy anything you want. Depression? Not by a long shot.
That’s truth. There may be a day when a lot of people won’t know any better, that think we’ve shaken off the consequences of the folly of putting am anti-American socialist in our White House. But we’ll know. A less prosperous existence. We’ll never be what we could have been, and that’s very very sad. Thanks, Baracky.
oh. *an* anti-American socialist in our White House I meant.
Oh and meya, after all that we went and won war 11. Imagine that. Hate to say it but your generation leaves a bit to be desired.
Your grasp of history is tenuous at best, meya.
In FDR’s budget message of 1936 he said:
Our policy is succeeding. The figures prove it. Secure in the knowledge that steadily decreasing deficits will turn in time into steadily increasing surpluses, and that it is the deficit of today which is making possible the surplus of tomorrow, let us pursue the course we have mapped.
One year after his second inauguration (1937), unemployment began to rise. A recession within a depression.
I’m not going to go into WWII spending. That was not elective and was not engaged in with an eye to cost/benefit analysis, rather do or die. It also forced upon FDR a kind of stimulus he lacked the vision or imagination to come up with on his own in the previous 8 years–partnership with private industry rather than the previous attemtps at command economy–which is what this “stimulous” is also. The economic power born of that came not from government spending, but from the combination of innovation and geography that let us be a beligerant without having to be directly engaged– a relative matter in comparison to the rest of the world.
Bruce Springsteen – Born In The USA (East Berlin)
That’s war II. Damn blackberry. Keys are too small.
RTO
You seem to be a good man, for Army that is. You take care of Maggie, hear? Good women are hard to come by.
The Russians won WWII, loser.
thor, meya’s a fascist and I find it very offensive. I think you should kick her off your team.
why was bruce giving help and comfort to the enemy?
Thor
If it makes you feel good to think that then you go right ahead. I was in the pacific and never saw a Russian.
Wow, thor, the russians defeated the japanese by, what, intimidation?
Roger, NC.
You have any regular hangouts in Allen? My folks used to live there. I’d be happy to purchase you a beverage of your choice sometime and I’m not far away. We can consider it a JANFU.
fucking communists
I appreciate that RTO. I’m off travelling now but will get back your way someday.
Peach trees are fruit trees, not the type of trees for lumber.
I used to have peach trees in my yard. I don’t believe your story.
You’ll get back this way when the Scotch runs dry!
I have punk kids in my yard. I believe you were one of them.
WWII wasn’t merely fought in the Pacific, now was it, fool.
You’ve never seen a hard day in your life compared to the Russians, ya candy-ass blow hard.
My war was in the Pacific. Started at Guadalcanal and ended at a little island known as Iwo Jima. I don’t ever denigrate the service of others, why do you?
That’s a fair question thor.
Excuse me, but I said the Russians won WWII.
They did.
Are you denigrating their military victory? Do you believe you’re somehow better than Russians?
I don’t.
Either admit the truth or remain a coward in the face of fact.
Yer wasting ammo on the small fry. He’s not even good as a bad example.
Meya may or may not be educable, but she can at least be a foil for genuine ideas.
Exactly how has he denigrated anything? Sometimes, thor, you are a real prick.
After a life’s worth of practice you still can’t even tell a good lie, RTO.
Do describe those peach tree lumber yards in Kabul, won’t you.
If you believe that the russians did more for your country than I did, there is nothing I can say to you. I hope you are alone in those thoughts.
Two of my great uncles died in WWII. I don’t need any lectures from you concerning sacrifice in the name of country.
Which country’s contribution was more significant in the Allied victory of WWII, Russia or America?
You say you fought in it so one would assume you’d know something about it.
Looks like the cat stole John Wayne’s tongue.
Who lectured you about anything thor? You started the whole thing by denigrating his service. Take a step back and look in the mirror. You started the hostilities.
Well pardon me all to hell. I stepped away for a bit. Actually I’m on the beach teying to catch a shark. You think whatever you want thor. I was there.
Oh, looks like the cat stole thor’s tongue. Might have taken your brain too. Bad kitteh!
Never met John Wayne. Liked his movies though. I did get to meet Clark Gable once. Richard Widmark too. That’s about it though.
[quote]Which country’s contribution was more significant in the Allied victory of WWII, Russia or America? [/quote]
Probably the British in the European theater. If they had collapsed then all shipping from the US to the Soviets would have ceased, the US would have no base of operations for the continent and the reserves on the Western Front could have been sent to fight the Soviets.
There’s more to WW2 than the European theater, you are aware of that right, thor?
Damn.
Thor
You sure do seem to like the russians. I can only assume you are in russia now. They certainly did their part against Hitler. Not so much against Tojo.
You gave Mel 4 minutes before the cat snark. You’ve been gone for almost an hour. Cat your tongue or are you otherwise keeping the cat occupied, thor?
The Russians did more than their part. They won the war. While you were woofing down bushels of beets they were being starved to death by the hundreds of thousands in Leningrad.
Fly to Moscow, old timer, and tell ’em to their face how you won WWII; I dare ya.
You either admit it WWII was a group effort and theirs was the greatest of effort and sacrifice or you’re just another delusional ego wearing a flag-pin. Honest men give credit where credit is due and don’t fall prey to delusions of grandeur.
I like kvass. – just found that out last week. Really nice but I wonder how many calories. I couldn’t read the can. Tomorrow I will google it I think.
It’s all about sacrifice, not about actually winning the war, huh?
So, thor has no real point. Moving on.
thor,
no one ever denigrated the service of the Soviets in WW2. All Mel has ever spoken to was his service. That’s it. Nothing more. You are the only one who has sought to make this more than what it was. He did what he did and your great uncles did what they did. The world is what it is today because of them. Why do you have to attack? Respect them all, Russian, British, Australian, American, etc.
I won’t fly to Moscow as I’ve see enough shit holes. Never once did I see a russian in the pacific. I don’t know what your problem is but you can shove off.
Have no use for your communist mind.
NC, thanks for your service. Never mind thor, he’s got a “couple” of issues. Not everyone in our generation is as fucked up as he.
(I’d love to see the reaction as thor told his great uncles that the Soviets won the war.)
I caught a shark! I let him go. Wouldn’t swim anywhere near Panama Beach if I were you. That shark is fairly pissed.
You do know that there was a battle for Moscow, don’t you RIP Chord?
Who might you guess won that battle, retard.
—————–
Mel is being a blowhard, D. I’ll recognize his sacrifice when he recognizes the greater sacrifice of Russians. They won WWII. Anyone who knows history knows that.
Look at the coward, now he’s calling me a Communist. You won’t fly to Moscow because you’re too pussy to do so, Mel. You’re a little shit of a man from a no-good little shit town compared to the real Muscovite war heroes.
Thanks Ford. Truth be told its been probably twenty years since I’ve spoken of it. My nephew set me up on this place and gave me the gizmo to get hooked up. Doesn’t really bother me when thor says anything. Good for a laugh.
You do know that there was a battle for Moscow, don’t you RIP Chord?
Who might you guess won that battle, retard.
————–
Wow, your argument is persuasive.
I can’t believe I ever took you seriously.
thor,
you calling anyone a blowhard is a hoot. I honestly have never thought ill of the russians that fought in WW2. Can’t imagine what would set you off, but off you are. I’ve tried to be nice to you and you can’t deny that. You have proven yourself to be a prick. I was wrong to ever try with you. You’re dead to me. Insult Mel again and I’ll find you.
‘Night NC. Again, no stupid words typed online could ever express my heart-felt thanks to your generation.
Enjoy the fishing.
Ford,
thor throws anything he can with the hope of getting a response. Ever been to Moscow? Jeez, what a shithole!
Remember us Ford. that’s all I ask.
Let it go Dave.
Very well
Yeah, I’ve been to Moscow. One could call Oklahoma is a shithole and few would argue, but Moscow has been around longer than this country and it ain’t no shithole.
You better be thanking the generation of Muscovites who defeated Hitler, seeing how they actually did.
How many winters do you think you would have survived, Mel, sitting in a frozen trench facing a panzer division instead of tanning yourself on a party barge cleaning up what was left of those half-starved malaria-ridden Jap soldiers who were out of ammo by the time you showed up.
Jeff-
Thanks for the good times. Sorry they’re gone.
How many winters? I don’t know thor. How many beaches do you think your beloved russians could have taken?
I was there when we landed at Guadalcanal. I was on bloody ridge. I was there when we invaded Tinian, Saipan, Guam, and Pellilieu. Yes, your russians did fine against the germans. Didn’t see them against the japanese.
What is your problem anyway?
How many winters do you think you would have survived, Mel, sitting in a frozen trench facing a panzer division instead of tanning yourself on a party barge cleaning up what was left of those half-starved malaria-ridden Jap soldiers who were out of ammo by the time you showed up.
Yep, that’s about the shape of the Japanese in 45. You are not seriously this stupid are you?
Oh, and let’s just forget about the whole Russo-Japanese war where the Japanese KICKED THE SHIT OUT OF THE RUSSIANS. Yeah, that would be unfair. The japs didn’t have to withstand the russian winter. The russians are pussies. Always have been. If it hadn’t been for mother nature, the Germans would have taken your motherland, thor.
Yep, I said it. Russians are pussies. Except on the internet, then they’re frickin heroes. Or rapists, whichever comes first.
This is the price you pay, Mel, for hanging around pin-headed flag-pin-wearing girly boys and sucking up to them for a cheap stroke.
You either man-up and admit the Russians did the heavy lifting in Europe or you’re a pussy. You do not get to denigrate Russia or Russian soldiers and then cry like a bitch when I do the same to you.
———–
Looks like Big D is jealous he doesn’t live in the country that can truly claim victory in WWII, meaning he’s no heroic Russian.
If thor were a real boy, instead of a construct played out by an asshole with the sole purpose of attempting the introduction of strife, then I would give many a happy thought to wishing his ass kicked. But he isn’t, so I don’t.
This character played out sure is a nasty little puss weasel though. Maybe his mother didn’t love him enough.
Look, slobber bunnies!!!
A Blackberry using, shark fishing WWII vet? My dad’s a Korean war vet. The only use he’d have for Blackberry is if he needed a paperweight. Of Mel, something smells fishier than his sharks.
Honest men give credit where credit is due
Your absolutely correct, thor.
Stay off the guy’s property. What’s so hard about that?
Look, best idea ever !!!
Either admit the truth or remain a coward in the face of fact.
Wow, thor, the russians defeated the japanese by, what, intimidation?
Their ability to take a bunch, thor’s greatest virtue.
The Russians did more than their part. They won the war. While you were woofing down bushels of beets they were being starved to death by the hundreds of thousands in Leningrad.
Told you.
You either admit it WWII was a group effort and theirs was the greatest of effort and sacrifice or you’re just another delusional ego wearing a flag-pin.
To paraphrase Patton, you don’t win a war with effort and sacrifice, you win it by killing motherfuckers until they quit fighting. The Russian winter won the Eastern front.
Fool.
The old ladies at the track must have won thor’s drinking money tonight.
Too bad they didn’t win his meth money.
The Russians would have paraded Patton’s head on a pike.
Thank God FDR was smart enough not to fuck with the Russians.
Did you awaken to another strange man sleeping in your bed this morning, sPies?
Hmm. Stalin didn’t declare war on japan until after we dropped the atomic bombs.
And Lend Lease, Moe. American companies built whole plants in Russia for their war effort.
I like how the Finns kicked the shit out of the Russians in the 1939-40 winter war using the Russians own equipment. Best snipers in the world.
Unlike you, thor, I don’t have to blow derelicts to pay for a meth habit, so I’ll have to defer to your vast experience of what that’s like.
Is your thor hole a little “thor” this morning? See if he’ll use some lube next time if you offer a discount.
“Comment by thor on 2/17 @ 11:40 pm #
Comment by NC on 2/17 @ 11:30 pm #
Oh and meya, after all that we went and won war 11. Imagine that. Hate to say it but your generation leaves a bit to be desired.
The Russians won WWII, loser.”
He knows nothing of history, NC, he’s a mindless chimp with the soul of an NKVD torturer.
And Semper Fi from a Marine Corps Dad.
“Which country’s contribution was more significant in the Allied victory of WWII, Russia or America?”
America’s, you ignorant prick.
Google “lend Lease” you ignorant fuck.
Google 8th Air Force, you ignorant asshole.
Google D-Day, you ignorant asshelmet.
After you’re done googling, just go kill yourself.
Do it for the children.
One thing ACORN won’t do, is encourage people to migrate out of the run-down cities.
Their leit-motif, “stabilization,” is the opposite of dynamism, which is all you need to know. They want to cement constituencies so that they can be depended upon in later electoral campaigns.
If urban indigents, instead, were to go all dynamic on ACORN’s ass, then, like steam escaping a heated flask, the Democrat’s urban constituents would evaporate, and there’d be no captive
slavesvoters for the stodgy ACORN types to poke and pet as needed.I say, give ’em all $5000 to move. Call it the “U-Haul, We Pay Act:” if you’ll move out of the decrepit cities to the clean air and bright sun of the sunbelt, we’ll pay your moving expenses. Of course, once you leave the zoo for the countryside, you’ll probably become a Republican, but, whatever!
Freedom has that effect on folks, and it’s your choice.
whore, you’re not man enough to lick the sand from NC’s combat boots.
Steve – that’s been tried, actually. People were given their housing vouchers and allowed to move where they wanted to. The results were mixed.
The Russians would have paraded Patton’s head on a pike.
If they hadn’t burned all their pikes trying to keep from freezing.
Their leit-motif, “stabilization,†is the opposite of dynamism, which is all you need to know.
Doesn’t sound very progressive, does it?
Yo”u seem to be a good man, for Army that is.”
Hey now?!…
As for the USSR contributions – you have to balance their collaboration with the Nazis, predation of Finland, rubbing out the Baltic States independence, partition of Poland (and shooting so many at Katyn Forest) and acceptance of aid from the West, actions during the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, etc., against their long hard fight after their partners in crime betrayed them.
If the USSR “won” all by themselves, I wonder what the British COmmonwealth was doing from 1939-Operation Barbarossa? And the Yugoslavs, Greeks, Norwegians, Poles, Free French, etc.
Doesn’t sound very progressive, does it?
Exactly. That explains why the incompetent descendants of better men (Sulzberger, Kerry, thor) are so attracted to “progressive” causes. They want to freeze society in place so that they don’t lose their unearned positions.
Can’t have those unwashed bloggers cutting into the circulation figures for the Times. Can’t have upstarts like Palin making them look bad.
Obama went to the “right” schools, so he’s okay.
The Russians won WWII, loser.
This is such ahistorical twaddle, it can only be intended to provoke. It should be noted that by the time Operation Barbarossa kicked off 22 June 1941, the Soviet Union had already invaded Poland, Finland and the Baltic States, enjoying her peaceful prosperity guaranteed by the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact . Estonia alone had nearly 25% of her population murdered immediately or sent to Siberian gulags. Did the Soviet population suffer dreadful hardships after the German invasion? Undoubtedly. Did these exceed those suffered by, say the Chinese or Philippines at the hands of the Japanese? Ridiculous to even speculate.
If one is trying to assess the strategic implications of various theatres of operations in WWII, several things should be noted: it was a war fought by allies. The success of the Allies in the European Theatre did not (sorry, Thor) rely soley on the Red Army; neither did the victory by the 8th Army at El Alamein and the subsequent invasions of Sicily and the Italian peninsula. It should be remembered that by the time the Non-Aggression Pact was torn up and Russia was invaded, the Briish Empire had been at war with Germany, all by her lonesome, for 2 years. Strategically, the Battle of the Atlantic can be argued to have been far more important than any other theatre, for without the tonnage of material flowing eastward across the Atlantic exceeding the tonnage sent to the bottom by the U-boat fleet, Britain would have capitulated. That Hitler did not comprehend this, chosing to divert U-boats to the Mediterranean and support Rommel/the blockade of Malta, can only be described as one of the crucial factors in the European campaign. Does anyone think the Soviet Union, without Britain in the war, would have lasted into 1943? I have not seen this argued in my history books.
Incidentally, if anyone has any book recommendations on the stragegic implications of the Murmansk convoys, I would be grateful. It is commonly accepted that Leningrad survived on the basis of these supplies; I would like to know more.
And of course, the war in the Pacific had absolutely nothing to do with the Soviet Union whatsoever.
Russia was still licking Nazi balls right up to the invasion, whore.
Soviet supply trains heading west crossed the Panzer forces heading east.
What an ahistoric asshole you are.
Isn’t it time to simply remove whor and all his “contributions” from the site?
I realize there are people — including the final voice in the matter, Jeff — you point to his once-in-a-blue-moon contributions as worthwhile, but, c’mon! This thread alone is proof that the occasional gem isn’t worth the truckloads of diarrheac cowflop.
[…] ACORN-holed. crossed from home […]
Forgive me, Col., it seems our posts crossed.
I thought you both wrote well Silver Whistle and wouldn’t want to give up either one of your posts. More crossing!
My problem with the stimulus bill is not so much the infrastructure spending, even though in many occasions it looks and smells like pork. My problem is the manner in which the money will be spent- I’ve been involved in assisting clients on bidding on government contracts and the system is freakin broken. These contracts will be subject to all of the ridiculous anti-discrimination laws which land jobs in the hands of the people who are not always the best or cheapest to do the jobs. The jobs will then be hamstrung with environmental regulations, which will drive the costs up higher. Finally, even though the state’s and various administrative agencies will have some discretion in spending hte money, how effective have government agencies been in the past at spending money.
The other MAJOR problem I have with the bill is all the non-pork social programs being included. For example, the wellfare reform rollback. I could not believe it was included. It was the one bi-partisan thing done during the Clinton presidency and Obama’s ridiculous excuse for rolling back was pretty much “well I thought it was wrong when it was passed”. No why, just his fucking opinion. And the health care issues which were well publicized- were those kept in the bill ? One giant step for socialized medicine is what it looked like to me.
Finally, ACORN? Seriously, you can make some infrastructure is good arguments but ACORN is under indictment for fraud in multiple states. I am amazed and saddened democrats continue to defend this incredibly corrupt entity and even more saddened that the only reason they defend said entity is because it leans left in its corruption. They support ACORN for the same reason Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Charlie Rangel, etc. No matter how corrupt a person or entity on the left is, they don’t care, because corruption matters less than power.
*They won WWII.*
The Russian winter was just as big a factor as anything the Russians did.
While we are on the subject of thor’s ludicrous assertion that Russia “won WWII,” (a feeble swipe that alphie/parsnip has taken in the past) let us not forget the kind of war Russia choose to wage in Eastern Europe when they were on the Nazi’s doorstep.
Once the Russian troops had been reequipped (in large measure due to Allied supply support, especially with regards to the Russian Air Force) and were poised on Germany’s border rivers, Stalin elected to pit both of his Army group Generals against each other in a race to see who would be first to Berlin. Stalin was clear that his objective was less military strategy and more geopolitical, seeing Berlin as a future prize destined to improve The USSR’s international prestige, especially amongst foreign Communists. The result of the of this crass disregard for human life (both Russian and German) was heavy handed mass attacks in which both Generals threw massive amounts of men and armor (supported by ginormous massed artillery) against the German lines on a broad front. Whole divisions were used up and simply replaced by more troops regardless of the cost in material and, especially, soldiers. I can’t find it now (and bow to LTC John and SW as to their superior knowledge) but I remember reading an assessment of the Russian invasion strategy that reviewed several different avenues of approach and concluded that Stalin’s geopolitical ego trip cost the Russian Army nearly double the casualties as opposed to a more deeply thought out plan that might have taken a week or too longer.
Not to mention the horrific total of German civilian casualties as a result of the charge ahead, scorched earth concept.
Couple the above with LTC John’s and SW’s analysis and review and this should put to bed the ill considered opinion that “Russia won WWII.”
I can understand thor wanting to not diminish the Russian contribution to the war, and to remember the suffering of the Russian population, civilian and military. None of which excuses the behaviour of the Soviets in the first 2 years of the war, when they engaged in exactly the same kind of ruthless, brutal repression against their illegally acquired territories that the SS later employed against Russians.
Perhaps the viewpoint he espoused (that Russia won the war) is commonly held in Russia; if so, it doesn’t make it true. They were a key ally in the European land theatre; there were other important theatres in which their contribution was exactly zero.
Russia certainly suffered greatly in WWII and came very close to national disaster. They made an important contribution to defeating the AXIS powers.
It should also be noted that, unlike The USSR, both Britain and America fought major wars on two fronts, the Russians having nothing to do with East Asia and the Pacific until the very end.
BJT — Stalin’s drive wasn’t just for his ego. It was also intended to grab as many slaves for the USSR as possible.
Now, now. We can never forget the massive Russian contributions in the China-Burma-India theater! Or their brave contributions to the defense of the Aleutians! Or their logistics contributions in North Africa!
I’m a little confused too – as a progressive, I would assume thor would want pows treated humanely. There is a reason the Germans would do pretty much anything to surrender to the Americans or the brits, rather than the Russians. Russian treatment of German prisoners made Abu Ghirab look like tiddlywinks.
One of my best friends, the grandson of this fellow, lent me several books on the Estonian experiences during and after the war. Needless to say, their viewpoint of the “Great Patriotic War” is somewhat different from the, shall we say, Russian orthodoxy.
Matt, just wait a few moments and thor will be along to explain why Russia’s treatment of POWs (and even it’s own soldiers) is yet another sign of their 1)higher intelligence 2) Superior heartiness or 3) proof that they read more books.
“Matt, just wait a few moments and thor will be along to explain why Russia’s …. treatment … (and even it’s own soldiers).
Oh, whore always wanted to part of one of the NKVD machine gun battalions who followed the real soldiers and killed anyone who retreated.
I don’t think that even thor will have some justification for Stalin’s brutality towards both his enemies and his own troops.
Rob #395: My oversight. Of course it was also about power and imperialism. My bad. Stalin saw Berlin as a symbolic purging of Russia’s initial beat down by the Germans (a beat down that was almost all because of Stalin’s own incompetence in ignoring ample evidence of Hitler’s impending betrayal.)
Oh, BJTexs, you still have some denial left. Thor will be along soonest to knock that out of you.
Denial is a river in Egypt, isn’t it?
I know, cranky, I know. Hope springs eternal, blindfolded and stoned.
The Russians faced 3 panzer groups that consisted of 16 panzer divisions and over three million invading German soldiers.
The Russian people, the Russian army, and the country of Russia won WWII. They destroyed Germany.
Any American who is patriotic in the least knows the greatest battles and victories of the second world war were the battles for Stalingrad and Leningrad.
The next time you run across an elderly Russian make sure you thank them for keeping you free, but don’t fall to your knees and go for their zipper whimpering “Semper Fi,” there’s no Russian translation for that, P’brain.
And hope is dashed by blundering nationalism and chest thumping.
You are a joke of a caricature, thor.
Don’t feel bad, BJ. Never apologize for holding out hope.
here is a list of major racist incidents in the soccer of the european peoples
Nope, 100% accurate, BJT.
The Russians defeated Hitler. You don’t fuck with the Slavs.
y’all should stop being so mean to each other and help me fight racisms
When did r-wingered American pride become equal parts prejudice and cowardice? Not so with me.
I’m a true American, made strong by honesty and truth.
Forged from the tyranny of Stalin’s horrific acts and the brutal nature of Russia’s civil war, the great Russian people formed and unleashed greatest military power on earth, unmatched in sacrifice and victory.
God blessed their greatness.
Bring it, you dumb little animals. I’m still here.
We are not at war with Russia, not even a Cold War. Enough time has passed to heal the wounds of prejudice.
Salute the Russians, extend your hand, thank them, apologize for your parroting juvenile revisionist history. They, more than anyone else, defeated Hitler. Recognize it, admit it, appreciate it.
This true version of the history of WWII will eventually be taught to your children and their children, namely, that, though we helped, it was the Russians who won WWII.
It’s like a Russian version of Baghdad Bob: Leningrad thor.
And you’re who, Hanoi Moe?
Russians will fully recognize Americans bravery and valor, and there’s simply dishonor in truth.
The Russians won WWII. Why’s it so hard to admit that? Wittle fwag pwin make you stutter, Hanoi Moe?
We did our part, they were lead dog. Fact.
simply no dishonor in truth.
Russians are not the future though I don’t think. Someone over here needs to learn how to make that kvass stuff so it doesn’t get lost.
thor,
The Russians fought savagely and bravely with the Germans during WWII. But, to mainly credit them with defeating the Germans is a cartoon version of reality.
They couldn’t have kept up a resistance against without the Murmansk convoys of weapons, aircraft, vehicles,and supplies during ’42 and ’43…
And, While Stalingrad was a glorious victory for them, and a terrible defeat for the Germans, the real pivotal engagement on the Eastern front took place at Kursk…
The Russians would have been defeated disastrously there had not British intelligence been feeding them the detailed Germans battle plans and orders of battle for 2 months prior to the engagement. As it was, the Germans still nearly won the battle; but in doing so spent their strength and began their long retreat…
An incredible number of troops were forced to man the Atlantic wall starting in ’43. In fact, Stalin threatened to sign a separate peace with Hitler if we didn’t turn up the heat on the Germans from that front…
And, without the 8th air force’s strategic bombing campaign, which doomed the Germans facing the Russians to no new units and weapons as well as crippling their economy, the Germans would have ground the Russians counter-offensive to a halt…
WWII was a complex, multi-national effort. We all did our part. The Russians did not win by themselves and neither did we. But they made tacit arrangements not to fight the Japanese in China, when we could have used the help, siezed the bombers at Vladivistock and stole the technology they contained, and double crossed everyone at the end of the war by effectively annexing the nations they conquered…
We did none of those things…
Hey, Bob, have you seen this yet?
“Any American who is patriotic in the least knows the greatest battles and victories of the second world war were the battles for Stalingrad and Leningrad.”
Um, no they weren’t you puerile, ignorant fucktard.
“I’m a true American”
No you’re not, you skidmarked slime mold.
“You don’t fuck with the Slavs.”
In your rich fantasy life you’ve claim to rape them.
“#Comment by thor on 2/18 @ 3:53 pm #
simply no dishonor in truth.”
whore boy, you wouldn’t know truth if it came up to you and bit you on your shriveled little scrotum.
As to honor, you have none.
“And, While Stalingrad was a glorious victory for them, and a terrible defeat for the Germans, the real pivotal engagement on the Eastern front took place at Kursk…”
Thank you Bob.
Proof of whore’s ignorance, he knows nothing of the largest tank battle in history.
now he’s calling me a Communist
If shoe fits, take off and bang on table.
Aww, wookie wittle slut-boy P’brain is wearing his combat boots and playing with his toy tanks.
I think it’s time for you to play hide-the-Twinkie and then take a sleepy, slut-boy.
Comment by thor on 2/18 @ 5:50 pm #
Skid-mark-slime-mold, SKID.. MARK SLIMEMOLD!
Fucking ignorant slut.
Certrainly isn’t confused by facts, is he?
Russians will fully recognize Americans bravery and valor, and there’s simply dishonor in truth.
What dishonor is there in bullshit?
The Russians won WWII. Why’s it so hard to admit that? Wittle fwag pwin make you stutter, Hanoi Moe?
I haven’t a clue what the fuck that is about.
We did our part, they were lead dog. Fact.
No. They dug their heels in the snow and weathered the onslaught.
Brave? Absolutely.
Tough? Absolutely.
Heroic? Absolutely.
Lead dog? Hell no. They dug in and held their ground, they didn’t lead anything, they didn’t pull any sleds. They hung on and did what they absolutely had to do to survive.
We could have just kicked back over here and set the whole thing out in Europe, you know, then where would Russia have been?
The Russians certainly took the brunt of the German assault, but that’s only poetic justice given that the perfidy of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was what green-lighted the attack on Poland.
Placing all your silly opinions aside, you obviously know where the major battles were fought and just who the fuck defeated Hitler (and no Bob, those worthless maps didn’t break the German lines). The Brits, Canadians and the American G.I.s did their share and helped where they could but WWII was fought and won in Russia by Russians. Nobody own the swag like the Slavs, Bob.
Recognize it, confess it, ask politely for their forgiveness, then on one knee thank the mighty peasants Motherland. Russians defeated Hitler. Then stole his stolen art, too.
Forged strong from tyranny and oppression, God Bless Chekhov’s warring white peasants of the Motherland. Millions died and millions survived, and all they ask is to be remembered, and unlike Mel, they are real.
“….WWII was fought and won in Russia by Russians.”
Ignorant and insane is no way to go through life, Slimemold.
guinsPen-queefuchka-poofta-queefuchka-poofta-thppbbbppbbbpppbbbpppsh!
Ignorant and insane is no way to go through life, Slimemold.
Now go take your meds and have a nice long nap.
‘Mkay?
Else I’m gonna have to call Nurse Ratched.
Hello, American idiot. Those peasants died so you could enjoy the freedom to be a idiot, a coward, and so you could slobber on your Tonka toys while wearing a cape and combat boots.
Talk about a debt to the Motherland.
You do know that a Russian sniper could make your tiny balls drop to the floor from 200-meters, no. Just ask a German, ya Nazi-hugger.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. It was so so long ago, and there’s dirty socialists what are afoot right now.
Those peasants died so you could have some sort of wierd hallucinatory episode where you live out your life long ambition to lick Stalin’s asshole.
I will have to remember to always stay at least 200 meters from Russia.
Be careful, Moe, those snipers could still get you.
Gosh you’d better, B Moe. Russians is fierce. Unspeakably fierce. oh. And also lead poisoning might could be involved.
I stand and the firm ground of truth, happy.
The battle of the bulge was our only taste of what the Russians fought through. It was a mere tangle in the bush compared to the battle of Kursk, and that’s not to say those who fought and died in the battle of the bulge don’t deserve the highest honor and respect.
But isn’t that what the weak American mind is incapable of, respect. The American coward holds his flag-pin on his bare chest while running naked in combat boots screaming at phantom Commies, calling them cowards, proclaiming their victory as his own.
It’s true. The Russians defeated Hitler, and it wasn’t by choice, it was by rote of fate, and sure Stalin was a asshole through and through, and sure Communism was a flawed grab for totalitarian authority, but I’m talking the Russians, who ate the largest shit sandwich in the past century and asked for seconds. They deserve the respect the American idiot showers like a coward on the select few that his Hollywood-John-Wayne idolatry allows. He elevates himself cheaply and surrounds himself in insulated cocoons of like-minded weakness. Heartfelt ignorance is such a secure bliss as his urine trickles down his leg and fills his shoe.
God Blessed the peasants of the Motherland with the strength, will and bravery of victorious soldiers. They can’t govern themselves worth a shit but hey, who defeated Hitler!
and = on
Hello and watching our music pop videos! We band of boy from Russia who thank you for looking at Internet Movie Video! Please buy album so crime lords do not kill!
oh. Russians definitely were a big deal in stopping Hitler. Us too. It took a village. All I know about Russia is I love my deli. And I don’t get mad when the lady isn’t super nice like you expect people to be when you come from Texas cause I know that’s just how she is.
The other day I asked for the beet salad and she said. You taste. (She always makes me taste)… So I dutifulloy tasted and said that’s very good. Very good. So she turned around to put the beet stuff in a container and then just stopped and rang me up and I said what about the beet stuff? And she said no. Come back tomorrow. I had plenty of food and she gave me the baba ghanoush which was the main thing but I … I just don’t get her sometimes. Have you had kvass? That’s my new thing and I love it very much.
oh. *dutifully* …
Sorry, ‘feets, gotta call poseurs. This is real Moskau Musicks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEeOkDMWO5g&feature=related
I love this comment…
When the guy in the throne started singing, I think my life was completed
oh. This is the original one. Very power rangery. And over 2 million views.
The Russians sat and waited and then shot every wad they had just trying ot hold off Hitler. We built a Goddamn fleet, sailed half way around the world, then climbed a heavily fortified cliff under heavy fire just trying to get to the half-sack, limp dick little pissant. Fuck the Russians, those little pussies would be speaking German right now if we had stayed home.
I actually do love those guys, not as much as the Leningrad Cowboys, but pretty damn close.
Putin speaks German and English because he went to KGB school.
I don’t think we scaled those cliffs to teach ESL classes.
“Comment by thor on 2/18 @ 9:35 pm #
I stand and the firm ground of truth….”
That’s a slippery pool of your own vomit, Slimemold.
Oh, and way to finally remember Kursk. Asshole.
” that’s not to say those who fought and died in the battle of the bulge don’t deserve the highest honor and respect”
Fuck you, you feculent scab. How dare you say that after what you said to Mel.
And to LTC John.
And about my son.
Go back to the sewer you crawled out of.
We scaled those cliffs to kick German ass. And we did.
Putin speaks German and English because only losers bother to learn Russian.
Backwards ass Pollack wannabes.
“(and no Bob, those worthless maps didn’t break the German lines).”
thor,
Perhaps you’re confused. At the Kursk salient, it was the Germans who were assaulting the Russian lines.
ULTRA deciphers from more than two months prior to the assault, combined with Lucy spy ring info gave the Russian forces detailed information on the German axies of attacks. And, the German delay, while waiting for new units to arrive, gave the Russians the time to mine these avenues as well as dig in anti-tank positions known as “hedgehogs”.
As I said, after the Germans had spent their assault against this wall of seemingly presciently placed defenses, the Russian counteroffensive liberated Belgorod and Kharkov. After that there was no looking back…
Despite the revisionist stories of Marshall Zhukov’s oracle like preminition of where the German assault would come, the fact remains that he would have arrayed his forces as he normally did; spread along a long defensive line as opposed to being massed in just the right place near Prohkovorka…
There are a lot of might-have-been’s in speculative historical mind experiments. But, had we not been bombing the Germans into the stone age, and threatening invasion from the south and west starting in summer of ’43, Hitler would have been free to focus the entire might of the Wermacht and Waffen-SS against the Russians. This would have led to a disastrous outcome for them, and possibly for the rest of the allies too. Although I believe that the fall of Italy, which still would have occurred, would have created the opportunity for the Normandy invasion anyway…
Oh, and then there’s the atomic bomb too…
I don’t think you’ll find many historians west of the Dnieper or Volga that will agree with your thesis that the Russians almost single-handedly defeated the Nazis…
I respect and admire the Russians, their warriors, and military history. They are worthy adversaries; and I wish we could both be allies against the Red Chinese. To cast my citation of WWII history as anything else is wrong. We agree on more than you may be aware of my friend…
Best Wishes…
Sdferr,
Nice pull on the Atlantic article…
Brings back some memories of days of yore…
Recommended Reading:
Red Storm on the Reich
Christopher Duffey, Castle Books, 1991.
Thanks for the tip SSgt,
It sounds like an interesting book on the final Russian push into Germany in ’45…
Other accounts of the action of the time period and front implied that the Soviets had pushed so hard to get to Berlin first that their human waves technique had essentially spent their offensive by the end…
Of course, it was the end…
And Hitler, in what has been called a “criminal” act by some of his Generals, had squandered many of his remaining heaviest and most elite formations with his insane Ardennes counter offensive that we call “The Battle of the Bulge”…
And I’m not trying to take anything away from the Rusiians, either here, or in any of my other comments…
thor has been doing some research, looks like
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_was_the_Russian_General_in_World_War_2
First of all, Bob, just step up to the plate and become the man you’re capable of, maybe, and admit that Russian won WWII sans any of your silly ass map caveats.
Secondly, Mel, you’re a diabolical hick scrambler. Working over these gullible and emotionally needy hicks like that, shit, all I can say is I wish I thought of it. Yeah, it was(is) funny. I was always suspicious but you proved your point. Good one. Fuckin’ hayseeds bit it hook-line-and-sinker.
P’brain, the next half-Russian you meet while beggin’ in South Philly, you collapse to your knees and lick the dirty side of his or her Slavic hand. Worship who gifted you your freedom, ball-boy, fealty to the Red hand that gave you everything!
Da, thorkita. Yankee dogs even steal music.
“Secondly, Mel, you’re a diabolical hick scrambler”
The yap dog reaches the end of his leash.
Pitiful, really.
Insane, too, but we all know that already.
Still dreaming of licking Stalin’s balls, I see.
Pitiful, really.
A World At Arms by Gerald Weinberg is a very good treatment of WWII, although, strangely enough, completely devoid of Stalinist revisionism and attendant claims that Russia won WWII. Like all good historians, Weinberg uses source material and references to back up his analyses.
A more personal work that I enjoyed enormously is War Diaries, 1939-1945: Field Marshall Lord Alanbrooke, who was Chief of the Imperial General Staff. It is a day-to-day diary begun when he was CO of II Corps, BEF, and follows his progress to commander of home defense after Dunkirk to appointment as CIGS. This version is the unexpurgated one, and far more satisfying than the sanitized affair that was published many years ago, especially regarding his relationships with Churchill and George C. Marshall. Anyone with an interest in how the Combined Chiefs of Staff functioned would enjoy this work.
Maybe some of you cowardly disgraces to America might consider watching what the defeaters of Hitler did to Hitler’s 6th army in Stalingrad.
Enjoy and clutch your flag-pins tight, SS-slurping r-wing cowards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8o6JikZ-g&feature=related
“Why should we defend Germany on the Volga” indeed. It was awfully convenient for the Russians, to be able to defeat Germany and never leave their own backyard.
The Russians did not defeat the Germans, the Germans just killed so many of them they ran out of bullets.
Maybe some of you cowardly disgraces to America might consider watching what the defeaters of Hitler did to Hitler’s 6th army in Stalingrad.
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what salient factors led to the encirclement of the 6th Army? What 2 main errors by the Germans led directly to this encirclement? And what was the direct result of the Third Battle of Kharkov? You know, just for shits and giggles.
I am definately out of my league here on knowledge of WW2 history. Can anyone recommend some decent WW2 history books that aren’t 2000 pages of boring? I am just starting America Alone and need something else to pick up once I get done.
#464
Here’s a better idea, shit fer brains, read a book. Preferably something to do with history. You’ve made yourself into a rather comical sterotype.
thor,
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
John Adams,
‘Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,’ December 1770
“Comment by Silver Whistle on 2/19 @ 6:26 am #”
Oh, please, SW, asking Slimemold Skidpants for facts?
The only thing it knows is the thought that keeps echoing through it’s little pea brain: “But I wanna blow Stalin!!!”
N. O’Brain,
Those questions, although easily answered by any war college sophomore, were not chosen randomly to stump thor. They have a common thread.
And the fact remains the Russians defeated Hitler and thereby won WWII.
We know P’brain is psycho “Hi-ee, I’m a Semper Fi Daddy!,” but are you going to allow yourself to dissolve into the same sort’a shit for brains-type queer?
More soldiers died in Stalingrad than we lost in WWII. And these little shit-for-brains r-wingers bare their flag-pins while glorifying war without knowing a fuckin’ thing about war, not even who in the fuck won WWII or what a blood bath it truly was.
The Russians won WWII. Any true patriotic American will say it loud and say it proud.
God Bless the Motherland!
“More soldiers died in Stalingrad than we lost in WWII.”
Body count is not always the sole measure of victory. The sad fact is that more Russians perished as a result of Stalin’s pogroms and repressive “purges” than did at the hands of the Germans…
“More soldiers died in Stalingrad than we lost in WWII. And these little shit-for-brains r-wingers bare their flag-pins while glorifying war without knowing a fuckin’ thing about war, not even who in the fuck won WWII or what a blood bath it truly was.
The Russians won WWII. Any true patriotic American will say it loud and say it proud.”
I know a little something about war, friend. I also have already acknowledged how vicious the fighting between the Russians and Germans was. It had a lot to do with the vainglory and ego’s of both Stalin and Hitler; especially at Stalingrad…
You obviously have access to a different fact set than most scholars when it comes to this subject; and a different outlook as well. And, you seem to discount any of the pressures put on the reich by any of the other Allies…
I don’t consider myself a shit-for-brains-queer; as a matter of fact this period in history I previously thought myself quite knowledgable of…
I suupose that this will have to be another subject that we must agree to disagree on. Although I’d like to know some of the sources that lead you to believe that the Russians principally defeated Hitler and won WWII…
Best Wishes…
Bob, this would be my guess.
Uh, Bob, count the German dead. That’s how you defeat an enemy at war, namely, you kill them.
I like the way you raise the stereotypical crazed-in-the-head r-wingery excuses that tie your tongue from speaking the truth, Stalin’s purges, the British maps, etc…
The Russians defeated Hitler and hence won WWII, period. To state such obviousness is not anti-American nor denies America’s role in anyway.
Anyone who can’t bring themselves to state a fact is queer in the head.
Good point Sdferr,
I haven’t read that book, and will have to put it on the too read list. After scanning the Amazon link you supplied, it seems to me that Davies also ignores the effects of the US 8th Airforce strategic bombing campain in depriving the Nazis of the benefit of their highly productive war machine as well as the large number of troops tied down to defending the western and southern fronts in Europe.
It’s really both sides of the same coin. What’s never stressed though is the tacit agreement between Stalin and the Japanese not to go at it in the far east. This allowed Stalin to ship nearly the entire Siberian army to shore up the line against the Germans at a critical time in the war. Then too, there is the impact of the Murmansk convoys in aiding the early war Russian efforts…
Best Wishes
For shits and giggles why don’t you go suck a Russian cock, you pathetic little r-wing pussy, know-nothing, ignorant bag of hick shit.
In Gotnya, I toasted the Russian victory at the tank that serves as a monument just outside of town. To this day, after every wedding, the bride and groom lead a ceremonial parade to that tank, make a toast and break their glasses on that armored relic that symbolizes the horrors of the war that ravaged their country and their town. The true victors never forget the hell they endured to defeat Hitler.
C’mon, American coward, try and figure out where Gotnya is. Get your coward’s map out.
“Uh, Bob, count the German dead. That’s how you defeat an enemy at war, namely, you kill them.”
Like I said, body counts do not always equal victory. One need only look to the Vietnam war for an example of that; we killed far more Kong and NVA. What happened there? How about when the Chinese invaded Vietnam over border disputes 30 years ago. They lost far more troops in their human waves assaults than the Vietnamese. Or how about the Iran/Iraq war? Or the Russians in Afghanistan for that matter.
You’re trying to over-simplify the discussion; which I believe we’ve been bandying about all along…
“I like the way you raise the stereotypical crazed-in-the-head r-wingery excuses that tie your tongue from speaking the truth, Stalin’s purges, the British maps, etc…”
Right wingery excuses that tie my tongue? Factual matters of history are excuses?
How is it that Stalin was able to send the entire Siberian army west in the winter of ’42. Why wasn’t he feeling the need to defend against the Japanese, who were his enemy by virtue of alliance, and had troops a short distance from Vladivistock?
How did the Russians manage to soundly defeat the Germans at Kursk, when less than 3 months prior the same German commanders, with lesser equipment and units, completely defeated task force Popov; 70,000 Germans to over 350,000 Russians?
How did the Russians single-handedly destroy German industry?
The importance of the Murmansk convoys in the defense of Leningrad as well as in a larger logistical sense?
And these are just a few factors…
For the last time, I am not denigrating the Russians ultimatly victoriuos offensive nor their courage or sacrifice by refusing to surrender my argument on the synergy of the allied effort.
But I cannot honestly say that the Russians won WWII; the Allies did, of which they were one of…
Best Wishes, Mi Droog…
For shits and giggles why don’t you go suck a Russian cock, you pathetic little r-wing pussy, know-nothing, ignorant bag of hick shit.
Well, that was instructive. Ad hominem, and nothing else. No discussion, no debate, just invective and deflection. Untaught, unteachable, unaware and completely unconscious. The first and last time I will ever discuss anything with you in good faith.
Comment by thor on 2/19 @ 1:25 pm #
More soldiers died in Stalingrad than we lost in WWII.
Comment by thor on 2/19 @ 2:05 pm #
Uh, Bob, count the German dead. That’s how you defeat an enemy at war, namely, you kill them.
Fucking idiot.
Bob, checking Davies I find: on the Japanese
A pretty cursory handling on the whole, I think. On the Murmansk convoys, three index citations, beginning with this:
sorry for the typos. First Murmansk cite is p. 35. Therein, “well know” is well known. “for expert to” is for export to.
For shits and giggles why don’t you go suck a Russian cock, you pathetic little r-wing pussy, know-nothing, ignorant bag of hick shit.
Da, thauric. Capitalists even try to steal moving picture.
Song of the Volga Goldfingers