This is one part of the argument with which I’m not going to disagree, and I don’t see the point in belaboring (heh) the point that a lot of the folks now playing that card don’t seem to care much about national security in other dimensions. So, given the wage gap, how can the US become competitive in machining and tool-and-die work? By resort to more robots. Unfortunately, for some reason, there’s a lot of resistance to this idea, especially among Democrats, who nevertheless rely on them come election time.
It may have something to do with alienation.
It is an astounding contradiction for the party that advocates defense spending reductions to be making the argument that the big three need the bailout for reasons of national security…
But then again, hypocrisy and disingenuousness are staples of the lefts argumentation technique…
That said, as much as I hate the notion of an industry bailout, and believe that a necessary component of any compromise must include the UAW realigning it’s compensation to match that of the foreign manufacturers operating inside the US, I too agree that we need the manufacturing capacity for national security reasons…
The reason that the Democrats object to using more robots in the assembly process is obvious; that doesn’t help their UAW patrons with their support base any, or Michelle’s children by extension…
But I’m sure that if those same robots could be “organized”, or given the right to vote, then their discomfort with their employment would surely sublimate…
You know, come to think of it, they’re used to auto assemply robots voting “as programmed” for years anyway!
Have a lovely Saturday all…
It is an astounding contradiction for the party that advocates defense spending reductions to be making the argument that the big three need the bailout for reasons of national security…
Not really, they have said all along that the WOT is an issue for domestic police forces and courts. Cop cars all come from Detroit.
And ambulances and fire trucks.
Actually, the Democrats’ definition of “national security” is a little different from most people’s. To them, what makes for “national security” is what keeps them secure at the helm of the national government.
Thus, bailing out a corrupt and destructive union is “national security,” while maintaining and equipping the most effective military in the history of the known non-fictional universe, not so much.
National security is a moot point once Baracky’s in charge I think. It won’t have a set meaning anymore unless you’re a hapless carbon dioxide molecule.
because the world loves us again!
It won’t have a set meaning anymore unless you’re a hapless carbon dioxide molecule./i>
Barracky knows who is the real terrorist. lmfao.
Sorry, I seem to have a sluggish <<< key today. I blame Obama.
If we’ve absolutley got to give govenment money to the automakers, why not get something for it. Don’t just pay them, hire them.
You want them to build electric cars, then set up contracts with the government to replace appropriate segments of the GSA fleet. Encourage state and local govs to do the same.
Bah. All industry is a “national security issue”.
The M1A2 tank is made by welding plates together. We no longer have the capability to do what was done to build all previous models: a one-piece casting. Now that GD is shutting down the line, we will soon be unable to build more M1s at all. Similarly, we could no longer build a battleship, because nobody in the United States is capable of making the turret bearings (the turrets themselves could be weldments, like the tank.) All those capabilities have been shut down or sold off, mostly to China or the other Asian Tigers.
Whether this is a good thing, a bad thing, or neutral depends on the analysis. Every real estate agent in Southern California agrees that it was a good thing to shut down all the heavy industry in the LA basin, for instance. It’s so much cleaner and neater, and the commissions on selling the houses in the developments that replaced it are wonderful. Environmentalists and quality-of-life planners all agree: industry is dirty and nasty and noisy, and needs to be kept away from the Elegant People.
“Detroit” (meaning the car business, in general) gets a lot of flak for not being innovative, for not changing its ways in the face of changing conditions. To a certain extent those criticisms are valid; but the message from the ATLA has been clear for forty years or more: if you innovate we will crucify you. Sidesaddle gas tanks on a pickup truck are a good idea, for instance. They allow you to lower the vehicle’s center of gravity, which makes it lighter and more aerodynamic (saving fuel) and safer handling. But we’ll sue your ass into the ground if you build them, while lying through our teeth about “safety issues”. Meanwhile we’re going to mandate that you add useless weight (bumper standards) and unreliable technology (and sue you when it fails). I could argue, from an engineering standpoint, that there is no car made in the world that can legally be sold in California — a fundamental (and never repealed) aspect of California “Clean Air Regulations” requires that spark advance not be employed, yet every computer-driven vehicle uses variable spark timing to control engine operation.
The kicker being that I would almost bet that, of all the people crying “Save the auto industry! Send them money!” fewer than five percent have ever owned an American-made and American-branded automobile. Toyotas, maybe, made in Tennessee, but the rest will be Mercedes and Accuras and Hondas. That American trash has no class…
Regards,
Ric
We no longer have the capability to do what was done to build all previous models: a one-piece casting.
Was the Abrams ever a once piece casting? Hasn’t it always been chobham (sandwich) type armor?
a fundamental (and never repealed) aspect of California “Clean Air Regulations†requires that spark advance not be employed, yet every computer-driven vehicle uses variable spark timing to control engine operation.
Every non computer car does also, you can’t accelerate without advancing the spark.
Great points, Ric.
No Toyota in Tennessee..Nissan manufactures here in Smyrna. Toyota started out with one plant in ’88 near Lexington, KY; now there’s additional plants in Texas, Indiana, Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia and something in Canada and Baja California.
GM put in the new and exciting Saturn plant in Spring Hill in ’84 I think, and failed miserably trying to make that POS viable. They’re in the middle of re-tooling that plant for…something.
Every time the UAW sent task forces to Smyrna to promote the Union, they were voted out of town.
We’re getting a new VW plant in Chattanooga next year. Maybe they’ll make a new Sirocco.
The Abrams was never a one-piece casting, ThomasD. The capability had been lost before manufacture began. The Chobham armor is an overlay. The fundamental structure is welded steel plate(s).
Unh hunh, B Moe. Clearly you never lived in California. The way you passed the emissions requirements in the late 60s and 70s was to disconnect the vacuum advance. It reduced unburned hydrocarbons, or so CalEPA would swear on a stack of assorted holy tomes. (This was the original basis for claiming that cleaning up automobile emissions would be cheap and easy. See? Just yank the bit the dirty damned manufacturers put in to make smog.) When I got my ’68 Chevy pickup to Texas and re-installed the hose, the mileage and power both went up beautifully.
Serr8d: I wasn’t aware that Nissan built anything here in the US. I’ve been over and around, but never in, the biggest Nissan factory in the world, which is in Aguascalientes, Mexico. The most remarkable thing about it? — only the executive parking lot ever has cars in it. The people who build the cars get there by bus. There isn’t an employee parking lot.
Regards,
Ric
Your BMWs are partially fabricated and then assembled in Greer, SC.
Dan. Automation was the direct result of unions weilding too much power. Unfortunately the tool and die trade is not something for young people to apprentice themselves to in lieu of a more formal education. The demands of the industry are for computer savey, mathematically proficient in at least trig, and a good communicator.
Even now developements in rapid prototyping will pull workers off the shop floor. For the past few years MIT has been rapid prototyping in metals that yield a complete and finished part without traditional machining and machinists. It is well within todays technology for robots to build a complete car. A factory with no people on the shop floor. No people on the assembly line.
Before you get all bummed, there will always be a market for quality, one off, stuff. Fine bamboo flyrods come to mind.
I don’t know about that, Rusty. I’ve been hearing about the “lights out” factory floor for more than two decades and I’ve yet to see one that even comes close (I’m an EE specialing in controls and instrumentation). You see it in process industries, sure, but not in discrete manufacturing. There’s too much customization, too much product differentiation, too much variation in parts (not to mention faults in the automation) to ever have it, IMHO. And you still need to load raw materials and pull finished product.
I’m not going to argue against my bread and butter, but most who theorize about this haven’t done it.
“The kicker being that I would almost bet that, of all the people crying “Save the auto industry! Send them money!†fewer than five percent have ever owned an American-made and American-branded automobile. Toyotas, maybe, made in Tennessee, but the rest will be Mercedes and Accuras and Hondas. That American trash has no class…”
Excellent points, as always Ric…
As a nation, we were deluding ourself when we allowed such an outsized percentage of our economy to become service oriented; as opposed to actually making something…
The notion of globalization was expedient, and allowed folks much more purchasing power for the same amount of dollars they had; but it was a national delusion. Free trade is a laudable goal, but requires people to understand that they needed to primarily patronize US companies…
Of course, that’s only one side of the equation, the other is that those same companies provide competitive and quality products to the consumer market; or face ruin by market forces…
As I said earlier, I hate the idea of the bailout, but recognize it as a necessary evil…
Let’s hope that it is a first step towards reviving our manufacturing sector, and not just a downpayment on more payola to come…
Oh, and the union sponsored “buy American” publicity programs?
They were about as phony as enforced diversity…
Most Union employees I’ve met didn’t seem to grasp the importance of buying American products; or simply mouthed the popular pronouncements about just how good foriegn products, especially Japanese cars, were…
The Japanese are masters of fine tuning their products to the target market. They understood that if a car ran well and needd minimal repair for the typical life-cycle that the consumers held them, then they woud achieve their “branding” aims. And, most folks who grow up in households where their parents sing the praises of, and only purchase, Toyota’s-let’s say-will most likely purchase the same brand themselves…
The bottom line is that regardless of the folks they employ, the profits from the foreign companies operating in the US ultimately go back home to their country of origin.
People are free to consume how they see fit, but don’t criticize, or laugh at, guys like me who drive a Hummer and whose wife drives a Malibu (Ugh) for being somehow less than discerning. We have made a decision as a household to always purchase US products as much as humanly possible. To keep the wealth, you know, in the family-so to speak…
Have a great weekend, y’all
#16
I had an interesting experience a couple of years ago along these lines.The company made solonoid valves. each component had a cell each cell was built around an Index B30 CNC turning center with sub spindle capability.
There were only two people on the shop floor. A technitian to feed the raw material to the turning centers and the woman packing the boxes. Every second operation station, including welding, wiring and QA testing was done by robots. Everything was monitored on computer in the office.That is the future of manufacturing.
It isn’t a matter of buy american. free markets are always he best choice if for no other reason than that they allow a creater choice in products and services at a cheaper price. What it is , is to deregulate the our marketplace so we can compete with everyone else.
I left the manufacturing business because there was too much interference from various government agencies.
Machines don’t have an advocacy group.