For friend of happyfeet:
Okay, so R. is going back to school to get a degree in teaching either math or science. He’s leaning toward science. We had all but settled on starting him at Austin Community College in the spring and working for a year or two before transferring into Texas State (formerly Southwest).
This whole thing would cost about $60,000 and 4-6 years.
He had asked me about online universities and I told him they blow…reputation wise, that nobody would respect the online degree.
Then I read an article yesterday in Time Magazine about WGU (western governor’s university)….started with seed money by 19 sitting governers some years ago. Set apart from the usual set (like U of Phoenix) because of its non-profit status and the Time article states it is the #1 provider of math/science teachers in Urban School districts this year. It’s only about $6000 per year and good possibility R. could finish in 4 years or less.
So, before we jump on this train that sounds too good to be true…can you help? How can I know for sure that his degree will be honored here? It’s weird isn’t it?
Thanks Dan – I really didn’t know what to tell her – did you get my second email maybe?
if you just wait a few years Obama will have ahold of the educational system and the liberal illuminati will be giving away college educations. Just hold off 2 or 3 years. it’s will be worth it! That’s my advice.
Be cautious.
Even if it’s great, employers aren’t familiar with it.
I know that the higher education system receives much well-deserved bashing on the right. A lot of this is true – and the system overfloweth with huge problems. But it’s still respected by employers, who want to hear that their applicants went to brick and mortar schools rather than an online system they aren’t familiar with or don’t trust.
On a personal note, my brother just graduated – finally – from an online university. He’s 36, and finding that his degree is of relatively little value. I’m 27 and halfway through law school. You do the math as to how this will affect salaries and job prospects.
Just my two cents…
Does your friend already have a degree? If so, he should look into alternative certification.
reputation wise, that nobody would respect the online degree.
It depends on where the degree is from, really.
U of Phoenix doesn’t have a great reputation (unfair, IMO…), but the online programs from well-known universities are a different story. The students have to fulfill the same requirements as on-campus students. In many cases, there’s not even any indication on the diploma or transcript that the degree was earned online.
While I’m not directly familiar with WGU, from their site it appears that they’re accredited by NCATE. The degree should be fine. If you’re concerned about it, contact your state Board of Education/Department of Education — teacher certification is handled at the state level, and reciprocity isn’t always automatic. This site seems to have a good overview.
Kind of messed up when you consider pretty much only degrees offered to our military folk are online degrees
Does Bill Gates need a degree to teach computer science in the public schools?
There are teachers and administrators in my school district that got advanced degrees online. Some had a BA/BS in another field before turning to teaching. Depends on what your state board of education accepts. Best thing to do is to check with them about what LDL degrees they’ll accept, if any. If the state accepts them, then any school district probably will as well. And right now there’s a serious shortage of Math and Science teachers. That’ll help wherever your friend goes.
lol, #6! Matter of fact, he would.
I think it depends on the degree, also. Some courses don’t translate into the internet environment. I’ve taught online English courses, and you just don’t get as much out of it as you do an in class course.
I’ve taught online English courses, and you just don’t get as much out of it as you do an in class course.
It depends on the software used (a lot of it sucks ass, particularly the Big Names) and (especially) how the class is structured. It does require modified techniques and lesson designs, but if it’s done right you can get good results, particularly in the type of class that relies on discussion. For one, discussions aren’t limited to the class period – they can continue throughout the week. Also, the students can take more time to think before responding. Shy students or students who are speaking a second language will often engage in online discussions in more depth than they will in a face-to-face environment.
It does require rethinking your teaching methods; everyone’s first instinct is to try to replicate the face-to-face environment online (e.g., by providing postage-stamp sized hour-long web videos of a lecturer’s talking head), and that rarely works out well.
It’s a challenge. We’ve all had years of experience with face-to-face teaching, both good and bad, but it’s rare for an instructor to have any experience as a student in an online class. You don’t have the tacit knowledge of what makes a good (or bad) lesson that you’ve acquired in your own schooling.
“I’ve taught online English courses, and you just don’t get as much out of it as you do an in class course.”
This bleg has to do with math/science where there is a right/wrong answer. I mean Jane Austin is so much patriarchy masquerading as structural feminism with some black liberation overtones only if you deconstruct it.
I mean Jane Austin is so much patriarchy masquerading as structural feminism with some black liberation overtones only if you deconstruct it.
Now there’s a marketable skill being proffered.
This bleg has to do with math/science where there is a right/wrong answer.
Hmm… is P=NP? :-)
Does anyone know what qualifications are needed to teach at Sidwell Friends School?
Thanks Spies and all – tonight when I get home I will call my friend T what sent this and we will go from there. Her husband did a couple years of undergrad out here in California but they aren’t counting on being able to transfer anything so he’s gonna start from scratch. Undergrad is so sketchy generally speaking anyway I don’t know what qualitative distinction one could have on which to base discriminating against an online degree. But that’s a lot my bias. The price difference is really compelling though. I wonder how they coordinate the student teaching part. If WGU is able to coordinate that then my thinking is that there’s an implication that the student teacher would be ultimately regarded as employable, but I don’t really know that sort of stuff.
I see your point, SPB, but as wonderful as an online discussion group can be–in my opinion, it pales in comparison to a classroom.
True, there may be students who are too reticent to speak out in class, but overcoming that reticence is part of what college should be about.
Does anyone know what qualifications are needed to teach at Sidwell Friends School?
They don’t list any formal academic requirements, but:
Experience teaching motivated, talented high school students is highly preferred; appreciation for the School’s commitment to uncommon academic excellence, Quaker values, and the prizing of diversity and environmental stewardship are highly desirable.
My gut says this is the future and four years from now will a lot be the future and maybe even we will be a free enterprise country that respects individual liberty again. On the other hand teacher’s unions could be scary scary in four years with all sorts of different mechanisms in place to control guild membership.
“They don’t list any formal academic requirements, but: ”
Michelle O! could “teach” there.
“teacher’s unions could be scary scary in four years with all sorts of different mechanisms in place to control guild membership.”
Maybe better to start a “Classical Liberal” charter school?
But that’s a lot my bias.
That’s definitely changing, though. Even in bricks-and-mortar programs, a lot of courses are starting to be delivered online, whether in whole or in part. When those students graduate and enter the workforce, they’re going to be comfortable with the idea that some classes take place online.
In my experience, the current generation of students expects, at a minimum, that the course documents (syllabus, review questions, sample exams, etc.) are available online, and that the instructor and/or teaching assistants are available in a web forum or via email.
The web forum, in particular, can be a huge time saver for everyone. The student doesn’t have to wait for office hours to get the answer to a common question, and the instructor doesn’t have to answer the same question over and over again.
in my opinion, it pales in comparison to a classroom.
Again, it depends — certainly you don’t get the instant give and take that you do in a live classroom, but I’ve had some wonderful week-long discussions with students that could never have taken place in a classroom. If the students are web-savvy, they often post links to outside resources that can enhance the discussion tremendously (sometimes, of course, their links provide the much-maligned “teachable moment” on how to evaluate web resources for credibility, but that’s valuable in its own right).
Personally, I think the traditional lecture model is doomed, at least when it comes to undergraduate education.
Protein Wisdom Charter School? Jeff you could franchise it.
Another thing to remember is that in education which states will accept certificates earned somewhere else can be determined by some really obscure state laws.
Example: My mother wanted to return to teaching in the late 70’s in AL. Even though she had a bachelors cum laude from Baylor, a Masters of Education from University of Louisville, and 10 years of Kentucky teaching experience and class A certificate, AL was going to make her take right at 2 years of undergraduate education courses.
Fortunately, my dad knew an AL attorney, who came across an old law that said AL and KY would accept each others certificates during the 50s / early 60s when she got hers. Problem solved.
No. I can’t prove it (if I could, I’d probably have a lot more money), but no.
That sPies is allowed anywhere near a college campus is hard foul; he’s a caustic drip on humanity in general, cheaper than a dashboard Jesus in little Havana in particular.
UMass and some of the universities in the mountain west (Utah State, Wyoming, Oregon) offer decent on-line degree programs at below state of Texas tuition rates.
The thing is if they don’t Foucault, don’t go.
Berkeley, skee bitches!
My gut instinct is that it’s undecidable, cranky.
Poor thor. He just can’t quit me.
It must really suck to be obsessed with someone you’ve encountered on a blog — I can’t even begin to imagine how empty his life must be.
“Berkeley, skee bitches!”
Obama on Your Shoulder
You’re the simplest dick on here. You need that daily reminder to fuck off to help you grow.
Poor thor.
It must really suck to be confronted by people who have real skills and accomplishments on a daily basis.
Back in the troll bin you go, thor. You’ve used up your quota of my time for today.
@27: I think the “proof,” if it ever occurs, will be in the form of experimental evidence.
“You’re the simplest dick on here.”
From a simple dick.
Then again, theory was not my best subject. I think more like an engineer.
Reputation.
Sorry, but if the school, online or not, has the necessary acreditations, that’s all that matters. Anything else is for the elites who put stock in the idea that a well known school is better than another.
Employers don’t care where a degree comes from (aside from acreditation) and generally don’t even care what the major was unless it’s something that requires certification (law, medicine, teaching, counselling…) and then the degree is only a means to an end–getting the cert. With a teaching degree and the state certification, it matters not a whit where the degree came from.
Degrees often are of little importance in the job market. My brother and I work for the same employer and have the same job title and description in the IT industry. He has no degree. I have a degree, but in history. Closest I ever came to “using” my degree was doing research for an attorney.
–SSG RaTsO.
That bastiche thor slips in here again? What a cockaroach. Somebody turn on the lights.
Aw, that would be cool, Protein Wisdom Charter School. I’m cashiered from one of my jobs for refusing to take attendance (though it’s better than that of most of my colleagues).
Yeah, I’m a prick.
Cashiered, Dan? Of the Drefus sort?
Online classes are sooo the wave of the future (but not too many people know that yet). I agree with SBP. I was amazed at how I can interact with my students online in ways that I can never do in the classroom (time being one obstacle). There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to each (traditional classroom vs online), but online classes are coming and they’re not going to go away. And I’ve actually decided that’s a good thing. (Plus, those kids today – they are very much different than we are in all kinds of ways.)
From anecdotal info I’ve gathered (as well as some recent research data I’ve heard about but not yet read), it’s not all that surprising that teachers who are good in the classroom and desire to teach online are great online too. The teachers who suck in the classroom (who unfortunately some schools funnel into online classes to keep them away from students) are bad online instructors as well.
The thing that I get a kick out of with this whole issue is trying to predict where it will end up (in a friendly bet sort of way). The teachers unions were at first against online classes (“that’s not real education”) but have since come to see that some (bad) teachers can teach poorly from home (they are often more facilitators or graders than teachers in these instances) and have fought tooth and nail against criteria and guidelines for online classes (“teachers should be able to teach however they see fit” – which I agree with to some extent, if it were the case that we were only hiring “good” teachers, but that is certainly not the case, in higher ed anyhow). [Disclaimer – there may be teachers’ unions somewhere that are interested in keeping good teachers and helping administrators show bad teachers the door, but that has not been my experience lately.]
It’ll be fun to see the unions keep fighting for teachers to be able to use pre-packaged (canned) online courses (which I am very much not fond of) and then watch the administration decide that someone in India can facilitate these courses just as well as someone in this country. Yea, my fantasies are mostly just pretty darn pathetic.
But the even more interesting thing, I think, is that companies (Microsoft and their ilk, e.g.) are much better at designing these kinds of things than educators are (in theory). If some good teachers worked with a good publishing company and/or a good software company, we could by-pass the education system altogether. Private companies would start offering online degrees. Eventually businesses will not care if their employees have been thoroughly indoctrinated in the classroom, as long as they’ve got something (certificate) to show for it – some of them already don’t give a hoot. Now we have private education coming from the business world instead of academia. It’s already starting to spring up in K-12. I get all tingly just thinking about the free market system! But enough of that. I believe I am in need of a cold shower.
Encourage your ‘R’ to get a degree in a hard science (engineering, etc.). Two-year technical and onto two more years in a four-year college is much more economical, if it works out. If ‘R’ still so desires, ‘R’ can get a teaching degree later. Education degrees are a dime a dozen, pretty much any school offers them with flexible hours. Not saying it doesn’t take time, money and effort. But if ‘R’ has a technical background his/her career can go in many directions.
Education? Meh. Besides, just think of the really lame classes ‘R’ will have to take for an education degree. How to Be Green K-12 101? Diversity K-12 101?
Take if from one who’s son has an engineering degree from a university in the northeast. To finish out his 5 years in a coop school, he took some fill-in classes to finish out the year. He was dumbfounded at the crap he had to sit through and resented the waste of time.
Good luck. And I hope you have some rich and generous relative.
Oops, missed the fact that ‘R’ is in 30s. Sounds like he already has background. Education classes probably aren’t going to inspire.
How about you get the fuck outt’a here, you pone-fucking bicuspid-missing-slack-jowled pussy.
Goddamn hairy-under-armed hick, someone, anyone, should tip your mother’s moonshine still over.
I’m inviting guests over to read this later, thor. First impressions and all that. They are nice Texan people. But just … are you saying you shave under your arms? Are we doing that now? I live in like the anal bleaching capital of the world and you’d think I would know that. I need to get out more I really do.
You’re inferring under-arm thatchet trimming where none is there, fuck, I’m no weasel-fucking small town Tennessee bigot.
Got it. I called my friend P and asked him. He says no not really and he would know but then he had to ask why is that the new thing or something and I said no not that I’m aware of I’m just curious.
I’m no weasel-fucking small town Tennessee bigot
Rather 500 miles south, more or less.
thor is Andrew Sullivan’s missing gerbil.
Hmmmm. Been punched in the face a million times and shaves his underarms…
are you a Tina Turner impersonator thor?
You know, the gentleman what came up with Trollhammer deserves the Nobel Peace prize. Hell, he’s done more to prevent actual violence than any of the winners in 30 years. Don’t even have to look at the idiot’s writing. One click and it’s almost like it never existed.
On reputation, SSG, you really turned me around here. I’m really seeing things differently. Funny, I usually do put stock in the idea of a well known school…but usually it is when I am with people who went to well known schools. So, do we care or not? If I interview someone, especially for a teaching position, I don’t start with “so where did you go to school and what was the teaching modality there?†It starts with, “Do you like young people? (Believe me, there are way too many people in schools who don’t like kids…not cool.) Tell me how you manage a classroom? Are you a well-adjusted, agreeable human being?â€Â
I trust that R has not come to this fork in the choose-my-fate road lightly. Teaching public school will, no doubt, provide several benefits that fit nicely into his current life plan. No “education†degree in the plans…you get the degree in the subject and then tack-on a few teacher prep type courses. He’s a male and he wants to teach math/science. They’ll offer to guild his testicles in addition to giving him a job. Of course, we can’t say that aloud…but the truth is that chicks are the majority in education and any man, no matter a bumbling fool, can be guaranteed at least a lowly teaching position.
Now, a word about the chosen profession. Yes, kasper, rich relatives are always appreciated. But you should know that as a Bachelored professional in today’s world, teaching is not the lowest rung on the ladder. In Austin,TX teachers start at $42k. With a 4-year-brick-and-mortar-university computer science degree in this town, you can count on jumping right into a swivel chair at the Dell call center and bang back $28k annual…and that’s working the night shift. And, you are likely sitting in a chair next to some 17 year old who took the fast track at his high school and graduated a year early with A+, MCSE and CCNA certifications tucked inside his HighSchoolMusical2 emblazoned wallet.
All this to say, teaching is a damned nice job, relatively speaking. Take this from someone who jumped corporate ship after banging my skull against the high tech-ceiling for 5 years. At the end of the day, I was just making more money for the man. Teaching kicks ass by comparison. Decent money and your job is really, really hard and stressful…for about 9 months per year. I worry, work weekends, nights, stress, sweat and then, for 10 weeks….Hakuna Matata, Bitches!
Oceans of gratitude for your contributions. R will proceed to WGU and we’ll keep you posted. UPDATE: Texas recognizes preparation universities by name and lists all those brick-and-mortar institutions in Texas AND one additional not-so: Western Governor’s University. Keeping eye on prize: R is headed for a specific job and all signs point to go.
If we do all this and it is disaster (yeah right “no, 39 year old male with 15 years of professional experience in technology, we don’t want you in education because you didn’t sit your ass in an uncomfortable chair for 2300 hours listening to some self-important wind-bags blather on about this and that), then no worries because Obama’s got my back. I don’t have to worry about mortgage payments or paying for gas. Do you think we’ll have a National Lawncare Agency as well…for those of us Landscape-challenged?
That is my friend T. She is a teacher in Austin and they are lucky to have her. I have rap songs and things she made for her kids to explain the math stuff. I might post in pub someday cause I get a kick out of them. oh. She says the WGU is listed by Texas both as an accredited school they accept and as an alternative cert possibility – She feels a lot better about this whole choice thinger.
Thanks for your help.