You better watch out. There is a new combatant in the Christmas wars.
Ads proclaiming, “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,” will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.
In lifting lyrics from “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” the Washington-based group is wading into what has become a perennial debate over commercialism, religion in the public square and the meaning of Christmas.
“We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you,” said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. “Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion.”
Listen: I have no problem at all with the ad campaign; after all, it’s the American Humanist Association’s money, and if they want to increase their profile, appeal to a certain demographic, and decorate public transportation offering ad space for sale, more power to them.
But what does bother me is this need, on the part of the AHA, to justify the expenditure by way of explanations that ring as hollow to me as Salvation Army bells must to them.
I mean, does anyone believe for even a second that the AHA is festooning buses with a message of new agey secular ethics because “during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone [..] because of its association with traditional religion”? — rather than as a way to make a political and materialist statement, and piss off as many believers as they can manage?
It seems to me that “an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists” should be able to deal with the crushing despair of other people celebrating things important to them without recourse to mobile billboards.
But then, maybe these truly are emotionally fragile types who need that kind of diesel-powered validation.
Ironically, what often cures such loneliness, despair, and feelings of isolation is the embrace of a higher power.
He said, trying hard not to smirk.
“This year, why not COMMIT SUICIDE? Beat the Christmas rush!”
— Back cover of a “Freak Bros.” comic
This kind of faith and religion is okay …
By the way, I am agnostic.
We worship an awesome god in the blue states. No idea why though. Hey that’s a good question.
I, and my Methodism, will refrain from mocking the poor, lonely agnostic/atheist at Christmastime – wouldn’t be very, um, Christian of me.
God has been replaced with a mirror.
I don’t know much about this sort of ad campaign stuff, but hasn’t that $40,000 got to be a misprint? Or can you actually do a meaningful ad campaign for $40,000?
This is aimed at free media coverage but an analysis of the buy on its own merits would suggest it’s aimed at black peoples. Christianity is all kinds of problematic these days with respect to African-American people. You can see that here in Los Angeles anyway with our Prop 8 kerfuffle thingy. I think there’s more to this story really. How to remove the taint of Christianity from the African-American experience? It’s ok you can say it.
Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake,
oooh, ooooh, can I be the one what picks what “goodness” is?
Just off hand I’m thinking young women showing me their tits is good.
This is aimed at free media coverage but an analysis of the buy on its own merits would suggest it’s aimed at black peoples. Christianity is all kinds of problematic these days with respect to African-American people. You can see that here in Los Angeles anyway with our Prop 8 kerfuffle thingy. I think there’s more to this story really. How to remove the taint of Christianity from the African-American experience? It’s ok you can say it.
Win!
That said, I think it is cool that agnostics and athiests are comfortable with that kind of advertisement. If ClearChannel and the local megachurch can advertize about morality on the side of a bus, why not Teh Godless?
That little ad campaign might save some lives, though anyone pushed to such despair over Christmas might as well just get it over with.
Washington DC, buses, the apparently black girl in the poster, hence aimed at black folks who ride the buses in DC, I take it is what you’re pointing at hf, with the immediate part? Looks right I guess. The free media part seems to be at first glance, somewhat more amorphous. But what, I wonder, do they think will be persuasive in this ad to black folks as such, as opposed to, I dunno, insofar as many of those black folks think of themselves as Christians, insulting or dismissive or whatever rankling reaction may happen?
As a religious person, these people used to really, really irritate me. Now they just make me very sad. It’s not a matter of being “comfortable” flaunting their godlessness. I’ve been to college and watched TV. It doesn’t take any intellectual rigor, bravery, or emotional security to spout off about not believing in God – all the cool kids are doing it! What I see now in all of this is fear and a rather pathetic plea for affirmation. They just want someone to tell them, “Yes, it’s okay; don’t be afraid. There is no God, and it’s okay not to believe.” When they secretly don’t believe that at all, and they feel very alone.
I am going to pray for Fred Edwords.
i used to believe in bus schedules
Though currently a Zen-Agnostic, I remember a practicing Catholic once (in my college days) attempting to get me to renounce the holiday spirit because I was, at that time, a self-described Athiest. Where was the place for spirit, to an Athiest, he asked? My reply was that I’d also given up the guilt associated with viewing myself as a retched sinner, and sorry, but if I was going to write off blissful eternal afterlife, I had no interest in clinging to anal retentive expectation of how I was to feel around the holiday.
However, I do find bus rides pretty purgatorial.
But then, maybe these truly are emotionally fragile types who need that kind of diesel-powered validation.
Bio-diesel, probably.
it seems that much of the backlash against public discussion of “conservative” Christianity and/or traditional religious observations has been pitched as a way of assauging hurt feelings on behalf of so-called out groups, like atheists, agnostics and the like.
which is strange, as those with “teh religulous” belief sets are supposed to be the thin-skinned.
Lisa, re: Darleen’s comment to you on another thread yesterday. Sorry. She’s better than that. Bad day and such, one supposes.
Sign o the Times
Quote: “What I see now in all of this is fear and a rather pathetic plea for affirmation. They just want someone to tell them, “Yes, it’s okay; don’t be afraid. There is no God, and it’s okay not to believe.†When they secretly don’t believe that at all, and they feel very alone.”
So ….. what does all that say about using tax money to print pro-religion advertising on coins?
Why not be bad for badness sake? There’s a hell of a lot more fun to be had in that.
I do get a chuckle out of athiests preaching.
If they don’t beleive in all the Christian/God-bothering hokum, why would they be depressed?
Oh, just shut up.
oh. Yes, Sdferr, and by more to the story I meant how our media is really usually super-sensitive to marketing efforts directed at black peoples. I think they’ll take a pass on this one though. Be good for goodness’ sake. No one can argue with that I guess. Specially not you people.
Methinks the meaning of the word “Holiday” escapes them.
That said what they are doing is fine, though as said above sad and funny both.
“retched sinner”
Those are the worst kind! Nauseated all the time!
Wait. Maybe they’re sinners of post Jan. 20, ’09: No ‘W’.
TWEEEEEEET!!!
Personal Foul! Unnecessary rough use of an equivalency argument relating to founding origins and mind of the Founding Fathers. Illegal attempt to re frame a cultural argument into an Establishment Clause brouhaha.
15 Yards
Loss of Down
5 Hail Mary’s
10 Our Fathers
1 Pledge of Allegiance (God included!)
Sounds like a perfectly good “Twilight Zone” espisode premise
The better half and I were watching this story on WDCA Channel 9 last night. The “Live, On The Scene” reporter asked a bystander his take on the bus sign. His answer?
“Of COURSE there’s a God — Barack Obama got elected!!”
We looked at each other and shook our heads.
And only thereafter stating may you comment thereon. Amen.
“I’m absolutely sure there are no absolutes.”
The humanist Society’s explanation and the content of the ad don’t match. It’s clear to me (from the plain meaning of the ad) that it is an attempt to convince people to not believe in God. That is certainly their right but be honest about your “evangelism” rather than trying to couch it as some kind of generic secular “comfort” for poor, isolated, overwrought humanists. What next, a 12 step program kicked off with Maher’s “Relugulous?”
Mostly, The Humanist Society and their ilk make me chuckle in a sad way. that reaction does not apply to those individuals who consider themselves agnostic/atheist but don’t have an overwhelming passion to preach secularism like a tent show revivalist.
When someone stops believing in God, it’s not that he believes in nothing, it’s that he will believe anything.
*forgot who said this so sorry for the lack of attribution*
geoffb #24: They will now be known as holeydays to celebrate the great null zone in your wallet and credit rating.
I’m thinking that the proliferate spending and debt incurred during the mad dash to gift giving causes more angst and depression than visible religious symbols.
But what do I know? I’m an stupid xtian cudlip anti-science fascist. Nishi told me so.
Just don’t ask them about their fundamentalism. Makes ’em twitchy.
they think they’re dressed in star trek uniforms
at a king arthurs festival
evolved
devo!
BJTexs, at a second reading it appears to be reminding me, an agnostic, not to go on a holiday killing spree or whatever. As if I needed a socialist admonishment in absence of the eternal fire threat. And it tells the spiritual that those who don’t fear the eternal fire can still act right. Both messages are pretty harmless.
And no, I’m not interested in talking anyone out of their faith. Becoming athiest or agnostic isn’t something you will yourself into, as an expression of some form of radicalism or whatnot. It’s a realization, nothing more.
Been meaning to inquire: what is a cudlip? Is it bovine related?
“Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion.â€Â
Must be how socialists feel on July 4.
kelly,
That quote (or something very much like it) is generally attributed to G.K. Chesterton. I can’t remember the exact phrasing.
Thanks, Deon. I was pretty sure it was Chesterton but I was too lazy to look it up.
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of Virginia, 1786.
“Roguery” sounds downright naughty!
I’m not sure what the problem is. You don’t dig the Christmas milieu? Don’t decorate, don’t exchange gifts, whatever. You dig Christmas but don’t believe in God? Nobody’s stopping you from putting up the tree, buying the presents, having a nice dinner with the fam, lighting a cinnamon-scented candle, and generally enjoying the festivities.
But it’s really a sad thing when society thinks that there’s a need to politicize a holiday that atheists, agnostics, secular Jews, and socialists have been happily celebrating for decades if not centuries.
Sheez, people. If you moved to India, would you make it a point to resent the Hindu holidays? Or would you watch and enjoy to the degree that you prefer.
Lay off Christmas, already. It’s not something that wrecks society, after all, but rather makes winter bearable.
Same goes for socialism, BR.
I think it might just be human nature.
Love this ad… Honestly just be a good person. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. K-A-R-M-A Is my religion of choice
Happy X-mas, gotta get back to work.
it seems that much of the backlash against public discussion of “conservative†Christianity and/or traditional religious observations has been pitched as a way of assauging hurt feelings on behalf of so-called out groups, like atheists, agnostics and the like.
which is strange, as those with “teh religulous†belief sets are supposed to be the thin-skinned.
Yeah that does seem odd. I am an agnostic and I never feel uncomfortable and/or hurt and lost around religious people. I enjoy partaking in the celebrating of holidays (or not – if they involve fasting and refraining from fun stuff) and learning about various religious rituals. While a really strident religious person can sometimes be jarring, they are almost always more pleasant than an animal rights activist or a wild-eyed vegan. I have met some kooky athiests, but they almost always were an ‘ex-something’ and were just as annoying when they were a Jehovah’s Witness/Hari-Krishna/Muslim/Born-again-whatever/pagan.
I’ve been led to believe that karma is a bitch. Just sayin’.
Lisa, re: Darleen’s comment to you on another thread yesterday. Sorry. She’s better than that. Bad day and such, one supposes.
I didn’t catch it, whatever it was. But I like Darleen a lot. Whatever it was, I have probably called her one too at some point, lol.
# 44:
Be careful, there, quoting The bible and such. One might be tempted to actually consider the positive messages that have come from religion.
Can’t have that. Might be cause to revoke your humanist Secular membership card and name tag.
#48 Squid. I believe you’re thinking about Lassie.
Speaking as an agnostic, I think it’s kinda neat how chipper the Christians are around the holidays.
That’s not to imply that just anyone can’t be happy during the holidays unless they’re morose attention-seeking party-pooping assbags who refuse to be upbeat unless everyone’s as miserable as they are, or at least continually acknowledging their profound and utter misery. It’s just that the Christians seem extra super happy.
Really, I don’t know why that’s such a bad thing.
Note to the assbags: Cheer up. Assbags.
BTW I hope none of those fully-loaded buses is involved in a hugely tragic photogenic highway accident.
Can you just IMAGINE?
Same goes for socialism, BR.
Except multiply the above referenced figure many times over …
Agnostic? C’mon Jeff, believe in something. You’ll like it.
“Sheez, people. If you moved to India, would you make it a point to resent the Hindu holidays?”
Probably not – Hinduism not being associated with the ghastly American booboisie, and all.
The Irony here is that Jews have really experienced many of the moments of isolation and calling out due to beliefs different from the Christian majority. they have a far greater grievance against Christian religion interfering with that basic Constitutional principle of Freedom to Worship than almost anyone associated with the Humanist/Secularists.
Yet, somehow, Jewish organizations don’t feel impelled to take out ads trying to convince people to fundamentally rethink the holidays.
“There lives more faith in honest doubt, Believe me, than in half the creeds.”
(Tennyson)
Let’s see. Atheists are outnumbered 1000 to 1, insulted for requiring reasonable evidence, called cynical for discounting, not just miracles, but 2000 years old reports of miracles; and, called childish for getting angry about being marginalized by people who belief in the 20th centery equivalent of Zeus! YUP, we are a sensitive lot.
And dicks, too.
Tom S:
I really really really really don’t want to see the day when putting up Christmas lights becomes a political statement.
Is that OK with you? It would be a dirty shame if we got to that point of pointlessness.
Just make sure you use some colored lights. All white ones are boring.
But these same people wouldn’t put up with this ad: “Why not believe in God?”
Frankly, who CARES if agnostics, atheists, et cetera “feel a little alone”? What does this even mean?!?! Like there aren’t any PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD who feel alone sometimes?!? Boo friggin’ hoo.
And I am SICK TO DEATH of their conceited “We-are-the-only-smart-people-on-the-planet” attitude! As if NO ONE ELSE is capable of “rational thought” or “critical thinking” (Edwords, AHA spokesman). No, they have the corner on thought!! Oh yeah? Well, how RATIONAL is it to look at the INCREDIBLE beauty and complexity of this universe and think, “Duh! I guess this all happened by accident!” You buffoons!!! Just keep trying to take over this country, you jerks.
Anu will return!
…and is he ever pissed at the mess Enlil and Enki have made of things here on Earth.
hmpf…
“Hey! Ya know what? Why don’t we put an ad on a bus! That’ll change how the world looks at religion!”
Do people actually think anymore, or do they just do stuff offa the top of their head and call themselves geniuses?
Tom S:
If Christianity is so silly, you’re striking the wrong pose.
Be amused, not OVERWROUGHT!!!!111!!!
What a load. Yeah, as a matter of fact you do come off like a whiner. “Marginalized”? Give me a break. Some of the top-selling books in the past two years have been atheist tracts. Your boys, Hitchens and Dawkins to name a couple, are hardly unwelcome on book tours.
What a pussy.
People who are secure in what they believe do not need someone else to affirm what they believe. I don’t go around putting up bulletin boards asking someone to please accept that Jesus does, indeed, love me or else I could feel marginalized; if I did, I’d have a crisis of faith in two seconds. Faith is independent of outside support. That’s why thse people make me a little sad; they’re trying to force someone, anyone, to bolster their beliefs enough so they’ll believe it. I’ve had a crisis of faith; I have had (and routinely have) doubts. It’s not a comfortable feeling. That’s why I feel sorry for atheists like these.
I didn’t mean to slam anyone else’s faith (or lack thereof). I apologize if anyone took it that way.
I also notice that no one took it that way, so I’m, like, talking to myself.
That is certainly their right but be honest about your “evangelismâ€Â
I’m thinking their effort should be called “devangelism.”
Actually, the “God” motto was added staring in the Civil War. And there are arguments against using it not based on Establishment issues (made by none other than Teddy Roosevelt). Just FYI.
Deon, you may not proselytize like that, but ask anyone who is atheistic or agnostic and they’ll tell you about the constant criticism they receive. I consider myself agnostic, and I’m not in-your-face about it. My lack of belief only comes up as a matter of fact, such as when someone asks what church I go to. The reactions I get are usually smug pity like your own – no need to feel sorry for me, bro. The other reaction I get is being told I’m bound for the lake of fire. Standing from the outside, this is what grates about Christianity (and Islam, for that matter)… Your belief is predicated on the idea that you have the one and ONLY direct hotline to truth and goodness, and anyone who doesn’t believe as you do faces eternal damnation. At least that’s what your Bible says, I know a lot of Christians like to whitewash their own founding document. That’s anything but a loving Father you’ve got there.
Look, I’m not saying it’s the end of the world. I won’t say that atheists are victimized or persecuted. But constantly needled, pressed, and looked on with suspicion? Yes. One little sign on a bus is only a drop of your own medicine.
And btw, the moral argument is ridiculous – I don’t need to believe in an invisible man to know the difference between right and wrong. Also, judging by that standard, 3 1/2 billion non-Christians don’t know the difference between right and wrong either. Ludicrous.
To 63:
If atheists like to say they have a better claim on rationality, it has a lot to do with faith, and messages found in the Bible – “We walk by faith, not by sight”. Obedience through faith is called for time and again. Define faith however you like, but it is worlds apart from reason.
I’m not saying that all Christians are irrational – just that the Christian part of their lives is. Believing that the only way to be a moral and decent person is through believing in an invisible being just doesn’t sound rational. That is if you’re defining reason as something that can be proved experientially and didn’t just come out of your head.
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned…
How many were burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned before Christianity, you reckon?
Deon, you may not proselytize like that, but ask anyone who is atheistic or agnostic and they’ll tell you about the constant criticism they receive.
I am an agnostic, lived in Georgia for over 20 years now and have never been to a church here. No one has ever criticized me for it. Not once.
“Just understand what power you are bowing down to before you do that.”
I said, with the history of the 20th Century very much in my mind.
I don’t know if this is the same quote, but I heard it as; “If you don’t believe in something,you’ll fall for anything”
What separates humans from all other animals is that we have an additional level of conscientiousness, the “spiritual”. It’s what drives people to spend $10,000 on a piece of modern art that could be a snapshot of my muddy back step in a rainy day and mounting it over their couch and never noticing it again.
It also presents us with some nagging questions that we can’t answer and, religion is the study of answering those spiritual questions(top two: who am I and how did I get here), but everyone is compelled to answer them within themselvs by virtue of being human.
In other words, if you don’t believe in Jesus, or Allah, or Buddha, you will believe in science and the big bang, or perhaps witchcraft and palm reading. Whatever. Everyone believes in something.
I like the one that takes away condemnation. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
#72 BMoe:
That is correct. It is the desire of power over others that is the eternal problem.
How many have been shot or fined or imprisoned since Atheistic Communism came onto this earth?
Quote: “Same goes for socialism, BR.” (43.)
I see your point, Jim. Two belief systems that forcibly impose their beliefs on others, sometimes to the death, for what they claim is the betterment of the world. Always in fanatic denial of facts and evidence. Sure is amazing how cults can take hold on so many people, isn’t it?
#74 M.G. Lee:
Believing in yourself alone is the most dangerous, I think.
Amazingly.
I don’t believe in Beatles and I’m happy. At least I was, until your karma ran over my dogma.
I see your point, Jim. Two belief systems that forcibly impose their beliefs on others
What were you forced to be BR?
Bastards forced me to be Baptist…
As pointed out earlier, I’m forced to carry around pro-religion coins if I want to engage in commerce. I suppose you could say, “just don’t buy any food”- starving to death is always an option. That’s an option Stalin offered too …..
I’m forced to carry around pro-religion coins
You poor thing!
So, I guess you are more that atheist, you are ant-religion.
What, when you were a boy,did a priest slip you the “special” church canon?
“when you were a boy,did a priest slip you the “special†church canon?”
That’s a good point- molestation is one of the gifts to society of some of the popular cults.
Oh, you are so right!
Also, 99.9% of rapes are committed by men.
Is that why Catholics won’t let women be priests?
Child rape jokes? ANT-religion?
Not helping your side.
You ought not go to Canada, BR.
Their coins carry the inscription ‘D.G. Regina’ – “By Grace of God, Queen”. British coins have the inscription ‘D.G. Reg. F.D.’ – “By Grace of God, Queen, Defender of the Faith”, so stay out of the UK.
#84:
Try looking at their doctrine. It has been around for a few thousand years so you can find works on it pretty easily if you have any questions.
I’m sure you are confused about “my side”
Assume away though…
A good deal more socialist that we are, aren’t they?
In other words, if you don’t believe in Jesus, or Allah, or Buddha, you will believe in science and the big bang, or perhaps witchcraft and palm reading. Whatever. Everyone believes in something.
I agree wholeheartedly lee. I don’t believe in God, but I believe that there is something bigger than myself that I have to answer to in my fellow human beings. I have some friends in a 12 step program and though I am not sure what the hell they are talking about half of the time, I get the part where they talk about how even if you get away with screwing someone over, it does the most damage to you, the screwer (and how you compound the damage and fuck yourself up the ass when you go through contortions trying to justify your actions). There is definitely something spiritual about striving for integrity and decency.
“when you were a boy,did a priest slip you the “special†church canon?â€Â
That’s a good point- molestation is one of the gifts to society of some of the popular cults
Have you checked out the molestation rates among public school teachers and staff?
What percentage of teachers don’t believe in religion?
David,
I’m not smug; sorry if it came off that way. What I said was that when I see these people talking about being “marginalized” and “alone” and apparently suicidal because other people have different beliefs, I see a crisis of faith. Faith in nothing, but still faith. That’s not fun. I sympathize.
Still, there’s a HUGE difference between proselytizing and what these people are doing. (Getting around the jerks, because every group has them.) If a Christian tries to tell someone about Jesus, it is because they are concerned about the state of that other person’s soul – not trying to receive affirmation of their own beliefs. As in, I believe (and I do) in heaven and hell. I believe I am not good enough (sinless) to get to heaven on my own, so I asked Jesus to forgive me and save me. Okay. That’s mercy. Now, since I believe in heaven and hell, I – out of concern – may pray for other people or “witness” to them about my faith because I want them to be saved and forgiven, too. I do care. I do believe my faith is correct. I don’t whitewash anything and, yes, I do have a loving Father. Why have faith that you don’t really believe?
My point about the atheisits isn’t their rightness or wrongness, or even the possibility of being moral without being religious. (Totally possible.) My point was that they are trumpeting their atheism because they want other people to support their decision to make them feel good about themselves. Not because they care about anyone else. That is a difference.
Again, a lot of Christians act unwisely in their zeal. I myself prefer not to hit people with the Jesus stick because it irritates even me. The good ones are attempting to tell you about God because they think it will help you and because they care, not because they are looking down on you. Just like you probably told people to vote for McCain or extol the virtues of the free market or talked about how awesome the last Batman movie was, because it is something you believed in to whatever degree.
My Bible does mention hell. It has a lot more to say about forgiveness, peace, comfort, love, and joy. It’s the *good* news that people are trying to tell you.
As for killing people to convert them – really not a tenant of my faith. At all. Like most human endeavors, when the church did that, it had much more to do with exercising some kind of political hold rather than saving souls.
As for the people upset by having “In God we trust” on the coins. I didn’t do that personally. I would recommend using a credit card until/unless that changes.
#80
If you don’t believe, why should that offend you?
I’m more of the Holden Caufield school of theology, myself. Except I’ve read “The Consolation of Philosophy” so it gets a little more involved, but its all good.
. I don’t believe in God, but I believe that there is something bigger than myself that I have to answer to in my fellow human beings.
A rose by any other name…
What percentage of teachers don’t believe in religion?
You are missing the point.
If a teacher molests a student, does it follow that teaching is wrong?
Do you have anything to actually say about religion, BR; or are you just going to waste your time and everyone else’s here to point out that humans have failed to live up to their ideals?
If the latter then I am sure we all can agree that humans fail to live up their ideals, and get past that piece of obviousness, and start talking about something more important; such as having a set of ideals to live up to. You don’t seem to have any ideals but an adolescent snarkiness, which all humans have and most grow out of. ‘Because others have failed to reach high ideals, because others have betrayed those ideals, I am smart not to have any.’ That doesn’t sound like much to rally one person around.
Forgive me and others if I and they do not choose to live a life of scorn and cynicism with you.
Quote: “If you don’t believe, why should that offend you?” (94)
OK, suppose on Jan. 21, Pres. Hussein issues an executive order that states that all future coinage shall have “From each according to his means, …etc.” stamped on it. You don’t believe that , do you? So why should you be offended?
“If a teacher molests a student, does it follow that teaching is wrong?”
Note that I wrote “…. one of the gifts to society ….” . I guess people value things differently, who knew ….
“Forgive me and others if I and they do not choose to live a life of scorn and cynicism with you.”
I don’t know, “scorn” isn’t really the right term. When you see a National Geographic TV show about Borneo headhunters who believe eating their enemies hearts gives them greater powers, etc., do you feel scorn for them? Or is it more of a felling or amazement, and … thankfulness that you are free of all that?
Because I am offended by every statement that I do not believe to be true. This is making TOTAL SENSE.
Emotionally invested in coinage much?
That should be “feeling of amazement”. Sorry, trying to keep up and typing too fast.
“This is making TOTAL SENSE.”
Of course it is. So, keep on imposing it on everyone else.
story
i am in union big building construction
if u have ever been to bosto/i’ve probably worked on that building
any hoo
in the summer-it gets humid
but u must must mmust wear your hard hat
[i work inside/taper]
so i drilled BIG holes in my hard hat to let the air flow cool me down
[it defeats the whole purpose of the hard hat-structally]
so i show up on a job w/ hard-hole hat-
first day on the job
the union steward runs over and gets in my face
“you can’t wear that on this job!”
i calmly reply”well- Father Mcfeely took me to the vatican on a retreat one summer/when i was altar boying and the Pope blessed this hard-hat/ i call it the holy hardhat-the lord is my protector i promise- i will not get hurt”
so the steward looks at me with a big grin and says
“kid-we’re gonna get along just fine!’
that lord guy
he works in mysterious ways!
I recall thumbing through a book titled “The Christian Agnostic” a few years ago. I think a HUGE number of Americans fall in the catigory. To identify an agnostic as someone without a belief system is pretty narrow. The word simply means he can’t KNOW the first cause of the universe. However, belief of right or wrong, or science, or most basically, the nature knowledge vs. belief vs. fact, leads to far more room for common ground among individuals than division. To think that spiritual experience is exclusively for those of unshaking faith in a particular religion, is limiting yourself. To get angry over the level of someone else’s faith is self-distructive.
So basically, pushy evangelists on both sides tend to piss me off.
! “Father Mcfeely”?!!! Oy vey.
” …. pushy evangelists on both sides tend to piss me off.”
Does that include the ones who run the U.S. Mint?
when someones gettin in ur face
stay calm
throw them off
humor works good
as long as ur confident in ur beliefs
what
u gonna fire me?
i’ll just go get another job
just sayin
u ain’t the boss of me
To think that spiritual experience is exclusively for those of unshaking faith in a particular religion, is limiting yourself. To get angry over the level of someone else’s faith is self-distructive.
So basically, pushy evangelists on both sides tend to piss me off.
Wow Dan Are, sounds like we are on the same side! =)
…gotta admit the word “rectory” does tense me up, though.
are we gonna go all queer priest jokes
cuz i like religon peeps
they are nice
then again
funnery
get me to the nunnery!
Narcissist natters numismatically…
I’m offended because you called our President by the wrong name?
Or because any lifted quote from the Bible that is used to beat me about the head offends me.
How about “render under Caesar that which is Caesar’s”?
A fine quote which I interpret in the eternal and say “well then nothing. That bastard is dead and if these idiots mean “Obama” when they say “Caesar” well, then they are idiots too”
re: Darleen’s comment to you on another thread yesterday. Sorry. She’s better than that. Bad day and such, one supposes.
Big Press defined.
BR had best stay out of Kuwait – “We seek God’s Assistance” right on the paper money and everything?!??! Best to stay out of Europe too, they even have pictures of churches on some of the money11!!1
“unto Caesar” not “under”. I’m not rendering anything under Caesar either and not just because he’s dead.
*bleep* freud
when someones gettin in ur face
stay calm
throw them off
I throw them turtles.
[…] wisdom highlights this new atheism ad campaign being launched on Washington D.C. buses. […]
Raised in a small, moderate Protestant denomination, I’ve been an atheist since I was about 13, starting off Dawkins-like strident, and gradually mellowing into friendly fellow-travellerdom with Christians. Over the past couple of years–pretty much since the Pope’s Regensburg address–I’ve begun to investigate the reasonable basis for faith, and as a result, I’m converting to Catholicism. No other denomination offers the intellectual and historical depth of Catholicism, and it feels a bit like coming home at least.
I was partway convinced by the various Transcendental Arguments for the existence of God, further swayed by the extreme delicacy of the Anthropic Principle, and cemented in my conviction by the historical evidence for the Resurrection. Finally, Chesterton (especially in Orthodoxy/i>) put the icing on the cake.
All of which is to say: I am not at all a “spiritual” person, but no doubt my conversion satisfies some kind of deep-seated emotional need. But I know that in my atheist days, I felt an equally deep-seated need not to believe in God. Atheism told me that I was OK, that I could halfway resolve to be good but not really worry too much about slipping up, because no-one was watching. Atheism made me feel unbounded and unjudged–it encouraged me to pursue self-fulfilment and self-gratification.
Then you get to a point in life (41, in my case) where you look back at the trail of broken marriage, destroyed family, and hurt children and realize that the people encouraging me to seek a higher purpose were right all along. This is not a message that most atheists want to hear, and many (most) will cover their ears and shout very loudly to drown it out.
Hence the dumb, whiny, preemptively defensive bus ads. Hence the distortions, the accusations, and the selective readings of history. Hence the hysteria directed at the religious, far more strident and judgmental than anything I ever encountered from the faithful when I was an atheist. Hence the incredible self-righteousness of many of the unbelieving.
Eek. Close those tags, Xtianist!
i mean argueing[sp]/ but when it gets physical
it’s turtle time!
I’m always up for soup.
I was about 13 too. I was raised Catholic, but “The Sea Wolf” had about the opposite effect Jack London intended. Since then eastern thought has had more impact on me than the Catholic faith, since the latter is more concerned with the social than the internal. I do occasionally celebrate mass, without concern for who started things, which prophet meant what, etc. Japan has it’s flaws, but Zen isn’t one of them. Why fret over orgins or intentions, things I can’t find out and could never comprehend? To immerse myself in this moment, to savor it, is all the spirituality I need.
Big Press defined.
Indeed.
#98
OK, suppose on Jan. 21, Pres. Hussein issues an executive order that states that all future coinage shall have “From each according to his means, …etc.†stamped on it. You don’t believe that , do you? So why should you be offended?
Did you mean president Obama?
Why are you offended if you don’t believe.
BTW it already says that , but in govt. speak it comes out as “This Note is Legal Tender for all Debts Public and Private”. Whereas in the Constitution it is declared that specie shall be the lawful money of the United States.
So why are you offended.?
i like to chew
soup i could grant my jaw-wired shut opponent
cuz he was a noble asshole
quins
i can’t tell
are u giving me shit?
pen me
quins
i can’t tell
Me neither.
i inferr[sp]
u imply
i think ur funny
[is that declaritive?]
maybe
“From each according to his means, …etc.â€Â
I think we need to print that on T-bills, since we’re selling them all to the Chicoms anyway…
BR – If you feel like other people don’t accept you, it’s not because of your beliefs – it’s because you’re a complete asshole.
Atheists and theists alike believe that it would be best to try to act as an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good being would, so I don’t there’s much difference between the two
I just have to laugh at some of this. David, it sounds to me that you’re a little insecure. Yes Christians believe what they believe (for the most part). They believe that only through Jesus Christ can you find God. You don’t. Great. Deon didn’t seem to be smug at all. Yet you took it that way. Guess what over a billion Muslims think I’m going to hell. My soul is diseased. So? Who cares. My boss at work is a Muslim woman who believes in Islam and all it’s tenets. To her, I am a heathen. An infidel. Again, so what? Why do I not give the slightest of shits? Because I’m secure. Nobody is coerced in this country to believe what they don’t. Silly to even insinuate that. As for BR, what in the figurative hell are you on about? Coins? Old mottos? Because your dollar has, “In God We Trust” on it, that offends you? Seriously, if my money had, “Fuck Goats and You will find heaven” on it, I wouldn’t give a fuck. Too many people with esteem problems.
Hey God-on-the-money-offends-me shiite atheists?
Get a fucking credit card. Problem solved.
You know, I think we may be just a *touch* too close to the shadows of the explicitly atheist Leninist-Soviet and Maoist-Chinese record-setting mass-murders for me to take atheists lecturing Christians on violence very seriously.
Now will I listen to any excuses about equivocation from people who keep calling lumping modern Christians in with the Spanish Inquisition or the Taliban.
I’m not even a freaking Christian, I’m just sick of the disingenuous whining.
Why do so many atheists have “short man syndrome?” Is it a natural consequence of rising up in a pro-atheist educational system and emerging into a society that doesn’t agree?
Machine Gun Lee nailed.
Who gets to be the one who decideds what good is? If your definition of good doesn’t match mine, which one of us is wrong? Or are we both right, because there’s no absolute truth, right?
Today, it feels right if you give me all your money so I can blow it on season four of House. I feel so, empowered.
Hmmm. Aparently I challenged a closely held belief.
Well. For the record I could care less what is printed/stamped on my money as long as it gets me the shit I need.
Jesus(!) I wish I had the free time to devote to getting outraged by this piddley shit.
I wonder if that bus passes by a mosque?
For some reason, some groups don’t merit gratuitous offense. If I were a cynic, I’d say there is a lesson there.
Dumbasses.
The ad should read: “Just be good for goodness’ sake†in big print with a little note of who placed it.
Would have the benefit of being pithy and memorable and possibly beneficial. Instead, they go with the opening stab and wonder why nobody listens.
Speaking of Holiday joy: I love this.
. I wait for it every year. It doesn’t get any better than a Christmas rap by EZ-E. You can get it at somafm.com and click on Xmas in Frisko.
Sweet!!
Why believe in Obama?
As I recall, Jesus didn’t have the time to get pissed off over small shit. Or really, much of anything except assholes getting in his way at the Temple.
i just want to state that humanism is not the same thing as athsim. athesim believe there is no god at all with no doubt. humanism however says that there is no real proof of god and that that each person should shape their own life with the good ethics. More to the point they say not that faith is bad but that it is not an acceptable basis for action. as for what humanisms define as good or right or wrong is based on the best understanding of ones individual and group needs. Now this ad is not an attack on christmas it dousen’t say not to celebrate it simpy raises the idea that you can infact be a good person with having to be christan. On another note i loce how christans get so up tight when ever anyone questions their beliefs. i mean come on if you really believe so deeply in your beliefs it shouldn’t be that big of a deal if we don’t. Also grow up……. no ones taking christmas away go ahead and celebrate, i know i will be
I don’t see how these AHA types are ’emotionally fragile’ after all its supposed to be those bitter clingy bible thumping gun toting rednecks who are so fragile that they require some supernatural being to worship. The emotionally tough AHA congregants should be strong enough to not care whether or not someone else is happily communing with some real or allegedly non existant Being.
Or to put it more quaintly, AHA, Get a Life (cause it seems to me you are just as ragged as certain gay people who are upset that somewhere, somehow, sometime, some heterosexual people are actually enjoying life.)