And still no notification that my account has been suspended.
As I noted before, this was no small account: I’d cut, titled, and uploaded 49 videos, all of which I wrote the descriptions for. I set up a youtube channel, including a personalized logo and custom color scheme.
The channel had, in 6 months, garnered close to 400 subscribers and had received very positive feedback from grapplers and those interested in self defense.
The videos themselves had all been very positively reviewed; and traffic had been so good that the channel had on several occasions cracked the top 20 under “gurus” for a given week, as well as the top 100 for a given month.
Again: Tony owns the copyrights to his videos — but were the problem copyright violation, YouTube’s stated policy is to remove the video and send notification. Similarly, the videos were in no way pornographic, eliminating that charge as reason for the permanent suspension.
According to the YouTube policy page, only “predatory behavior” and spamming are grounds for immediate suspension. And even then, the account holder is to be notified.
I have not been notified, and no one from YouTube will respond to any of my queries or concerns — including the concern that my account was hacked. I have written several emails, sent a fax, and even emailed someone with an @youtube extension, asking only that he give me the name, email address, or phone number of someone who might be able to help me.
And still, nothing.
I have my suspicions about who is behind the campaign to have my channel removed — specifically, those who make a living selling watered down versions of Tony’s material. One gentleman is a former pro-wrestler named Billy Wicks; the other — and a guy who has spent years trying to sabotage Tony’s career — is Jake Shannon, who runs scientific wrestling, and who has his own youtube channel.
Of course, I can’t face my accusers, or even know who they are, because YouTube refuses to reply to any of my inquiries. In doing so, they are giving an unfair advantage to Tony’s competitors for what at this point appears to be pure whimsy.
The fact that “grove@youtube” has refused my 3 attempts to find out who I should be talking to shows me that YouTube — and Google, who we already know is interested in controlling what you get to read — cares little about their users, and is willing to delete and suspend first, and (not) ask questions later.
Which sets up perfectly for an authoritarian regime like the kind we’re headed for.
Steve Grove of YouTube: if you are reading this, I am again asking that you reply to my queries. I spend countless hours and dedicated much hard work to producing those video clips, uploading them, creating the channel, answering queries from interested users, cultivating youtube “friendships,” and building up an impressive subscriber base.
For YouTube to decide — arbitrarily, so far as I can tell — to steal all my work without the courtesy of contacting me or offering an explanation, shows that, for all its popularity, it is a capricious outfit that cannot be trusted.
Remember: the next person who finds himself the victim of an orchestrated attempt by his competitors to be forced out business — using YouTube as an accomplice by proxy — may be you.
Nice guys finish last. And YouTube cares so little about the people who provide it with content — and so enrich the company — that they won’t even deign to respond.
One can only hope that Billy Wicks or Jake Shannon of Scientific Wrestling or Steve Groves at YouTube never have to experience what I’ve been put through this past week.
Most disappointing, however, has been YouTube’s complete unwillingness to respond to my concerns and to explain their actions.
I suppose later today I will write yet another email to groves@youtube.com — and will continue to do so until someone at that company responds.
Once again, dealing with this kind of thing takes away time from other things in my life, be it time with my kid or time posting here, where I make whatever income it is I make.
But I have promised to help my friend, and I won’t back away from that promise, no matter how onerous it gets.
If anyone can find me any active youtube email addresses — or would like to try contacting someone at youtube him or herself — I’d be truly grateful.
The user ID was “catchwrestle,” and the channel was youtube.com/catchwrestle.
Thanks. And if Mr Shannon or Mr Wicks and any of their henchman (who, incidentally, I’ve heard — but can’t confirm — are not beyond a bit of hacking and identity theft from time to time) are reading this, they should steel themselves for the articles I’ll be writing in the future about each of them, about their business practices, and about their stable of “experts.”
I sent Senor Groves a message, but I doubt I will get a response. You are a good friend, Jeff.
I hope someone, anyone finally rolls around to getting your stuff back up and rolling, Jeff. I know as well as you how bad it sucks to have work thrown down the memory hole for God-only-knows what reason.
hey should steel themselves for the articles I’ll be writing in the future about each of them, about their business practices, and about their stable of “experts
Word of warning, youtube nazis … it will NOT be pretty.
this is weird.
your catchwrestling video channel is shut down.
but, a quick (5-7 seconds) scan reveals hundreds of sex videos, some nazi stuff…weird. i mean, really weird.
Welcome to the thugocracy, Jeff ‘the Grappler’ Goldstein.
The dumpster-divers will be calling soon, so I suggest you make their job as “pleasant” as it can be.
“BEFORE THE LAW stands a doorkeeper. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country and prays for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot grant admittance at the moment. The man thinks it over and then asks if he will be allowed in later. “It is possible,” says the doorkeeper, “but not at the moment.” Since the gate stands open, as usual, and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man stoops to peer through the gateway into the interior. Observing that, the doorkeeper laughs and says: “If you are so drawn to it, just try to go in despite my veto. But take note: I am powerful. And I am only the least of the doorkeepers. From hall to hall there is one doorkeeper after another, each more powerful than the last. The third doorkeeper is already so terrible that even I cannot bear to look at him.” These are difficulties the man from the country has not expected; the Law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone, but as he now takes a closer look at the doorkeeper in his fur coat, with his big sharp nose and long, thin, black Tartar beard, he decides that it is better to wait until he gets permission to enter. The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at one side of the door. There he sits for days and years.”
– Franz K.
Ya know, while the competitors are probably the culprits, the stonewalling and lack of warning may point in another direction.
Just saying, is all.
As an unrelated (or maybe not) comment, it seems everytime I go to Youtube from a link, I get “this video no longer available” without further explanation. Might as well relax, Jeff. You’re no long available. Dem’s the breaks!
Jeff, I’m very annoyed that you have been given no explanation for your account suspension.
Reviewing the FAQ, it’s clear that while they give examples of “severe” abuse justifying immediate, first offense, suspension, as predatory behaviour or spam, they by no means limit themselves to those two violations.
The sheer number of videos for which copyright infringement was claimed (if that was the case, and it might not be the complaint used to flag your videos at all) might constitute “severity” by youtube rules. It would be a judgment call.
___________________
“Inappropriate Content: Account suspensions
There are a variety of reasons an account may be terminated. The most common reason is repeated violation of the Community Guidelines or Terms of Use (including claims of copyright infringement). For severe abuse, it is possible for an account to be terminated on a first offense, such as predatory behavior or spam. Individuals whose account has been terminated are prohibited from creating new accounts. If a new account is discovered, it too may be terminated without warning.”
One other possibility to consider, would be that an ad-revenue youtube video aggregator made a site to get revenue from your vids, and to shut the violator down, they shut you down.
Very perplexing that you have had no explanation. The simplest explanation would be flagging for copyright on every single one of your videous, or even a takedown notice.
That was not meant to be unsympathetic btw.
You seem to have been completely within the guidelines for commercial use.
Although, spamming is sometimes in the eye of the beholder, I have no idea whether any such thing occurred, but just posting a link on a catchwrestle board to encourage others to visit tony’s video or website could, if viewed in an unsympathetic light, be construed as spamming the videos.
Farmer’s definition of an “expert”:
A man out standing in his field.
Tony owns the copyright. And posting a link to the channel can’t be construed as “spamming,” particularly when you are encouraged to “embed” videos.
No, I think the competitors are behind this. In fact, they seem proud and want us to know this. One of them just signed up for Tony’s newsletter after the videos were removed.
He’s an old pro-wrestler who pretends to know hooking, Billy Wicks, who works out of NC, I believe. He’s a sad fraud, but he has dozens of hicks willing to do any dirty work for him he asks.
Remember: the guy made his living doing worked matches and creating phony “controversies.” As for Shannon, well, he is the most malicious of all. We’ve done nothing to provoke him.
Have you tried abuse@youtube.com yet? Sometimes that can get you around the gatekeepers and into the information security function, who might forward your concerns to someone appropriate.
No guarantees, but might be worth a shot.
Jeff, I don’t doubt the ownership of copyright – Youtube preserves its safe harbor under copyright laws if it pulls them down immediately, no matter how bogus the complaint of infringement. They don’t err on your side, in other words.
Youtube fails by not telling you if this is why the videos are down, because you have options to challenge takedown notices , or to sue the complainants for all sorts of things.
Listen to me. Yes, an enemy could complain that linking commercial videos on message boards is spamming. It can be construed as such because that is what spamming is…which the extra element of degree. It’s one thing to be having a convo and link something in passing “oh hey, here’s a video that shows that move you were talking about”, and posts, especially repetitive ones, across a forum to announce the availability of a video. The reason I tell you this is because it might be the pretext under which your videos was pulled.
A user who resents you posting “Out now – face-cross thing move of doom, check out Catchwrestle.blog.com ” could have complained to Youtube that you were spamming. Lord knows how much or how little effort they spend at youtube investigating merits of such complainst. But repeated complaints, by a horde of enemies, could have had their effect. Youtube prohibits that kind of commerical use of it’s site, and in the FAQ says its a judgement call.
I don’t know what kind of promotion, if any, you have made of these videos on forums, but it might have been your point of vulnerability and why you had your account pulled.
I think it’s most likely that a concerted effort by your competitors and their minions, is why your account was pulled.
Yes, Jim. I sent emails to abuse, support, press, and whatever individuals I could find. Even faxed.
Not a single reply.
Sarah.
I embedded a few videos here. Other than that, I haven’t made a mass mention anywhere.
Interestingly, they suspended my friend from Canada’s account and never explained why. He does documentaries on street people in Toronto as part of some project he is working on for grad school. But he posts some of the more interesting stuff up on YouTube with the permission of the interviewees. YouTube never gave him an explaination for why they suspended his account. He is really pissed.
Eh.
I checked their domain registration, it leads to MarkMonitor as the registrar and contains no useful technical or administrative contact info. As near as I can tell, there’s no clear successful way to fight a suspension. One guy had an e-mail conversation with copyright@gmail.com for a while, but it didn’t seem like he got very far.
Alright, a little LinkedIn browsing says that apparently I know someone who knows someone at YouTube, so let me see if I can get some sort of intro/info from him.
I would make a new youtube account and put the same content on it but not link it directly, just direct people to it.
Of course if this would take a long time (I’ve no idea) and you’d be pissed off the entire time saying to yourself “this sucks worse than being a former “pro” wrestler reduced to swinish internet dirty tricks” then don’t do it.
But, via trial and error, you might also be able to solve the mystery sans help from youtube folks.
I tell ya, what is this veil of tears we call a world coming to when former “pro” wrestlers aren’t on the up and up, especially when they certainly erroneously feel anonymous.
That’s interesting, Lisa. Any hypothesis about why the student project videos would merit a suspension?
easyliving —
Apparently I’m not allowed to open a new account. Uploading and describing 50 videos, plus creating a channel, was very time consuming. That YouTube disappeared it in the blink of an eye — leaving alone all the channels by competitors — speaks to something rotten.
A shame people aren’t bothered enough by the content at scientific wrestling, eg — which is mostly simply marketing material with no content value — to register complaints that they are using youtube as free advertising and nothing more.
For his part, Tony’s videos actually demonstrated techniques — not simply sold products.
Ahem.
By the way, here’s a general contact form, should anyone wish to ask youtube a question about, say, why “catchwrestle” (jeff -dot-proteinwisdom -at-gmail -dot-com) was suspended without its administrator being contacted.
Me, I might just cut and paste a query and hit that fucker 30 times a day…
Youtube smiles on the commercial purpose of the vids, in its rules.
I still suspect a [bogus]claim of copyright infringement was made.
However, maybe is was actually a complaint about content. If the catchwrestle moves were percieved as demonstrations of a way to physically harm someone effectively…but I haven’t read youtube policy about that.
The only other reason I can think of besides those already mentioned is a hack where objectionable material was uploaded on the back of your account, and they shut you down to shut it down.
Everyone knows that Google is loaded full of left wing darlings and consummate internet junkies and technophiles. My theory is that someone with the administrative rights at YouTube connected you with this blog and slammed you for it. No wresting pun intended.
I don’t think You tube would kill an account for copyright, just the video.
There not answering you because the customer service team has no idea why your are shut down, you just are and either cant fix it or down’t want to fess up and probably don’t care enough to track down who did it.
Sarah I think that they could have possibly generated complaints because some of the interviewees (a goodly number of them) talked very VERY frankly about their addiction and the things that they engaged in to feed said addictions – in very colorful language. I think one couple just fired up their crack pipes in front of him in one video. But, he had tagged them all with the “you must be 18 or older” thingie. I just don’t know why his stuff was removed. There are much more racy and offensive vids about the homeless, mental illness, and addiction on YouTube. And most of the others are there to make fun of the homeless, mentally ill, or addicts – not to interview them and talk to them in a dignified manner. It is a mystery why “Bumfights” remains on YouTube, but a clearly academic project about homelessness in Toronto was removed as offensive.
If efficacy is important- check with Tony and then file a counterclaim regarding the copyright.
This will/should/might let the Catchwrestle channel be restablished long enough for you to back-up copies of the videos, save the formats, et cetera. If you’re working with Tony as, more or less, an agent of his, have Tony be ready to vouch to YouTube that you’re acting on his behalf in an agent’s capacity.
In this case, don’t ask why – simply demand that the channel be restored while the copyright situation is resolved.
… or simply dwell on the injustice of it all.
interesting, I filled out the form, got a response that my message had been caught by their spam filter and would not be addressed and now your link is redirecting me to “contact us”
This makes no sense, unless someone evil has an inside line at YouTube. Conspiracy? You bet.
If you get a lawyer write a letter for you, things might change. I know it could get expensive though. I got this prepaid legal service that could make letters and phone calls on my behalf and provide unlimited consultations over the phone. I only pay around $25/month for the service.
@26: Can’t say much in 350 characters or less, but this is the message I sent (twice, using both my hotmail and gmail accounts).
The video link I left was the actual suspended youtube/catchwrestle account. The tinyurl links back to this post.
Well, I was directed here.
There’s always MSN’s Soapbox (aka very small sandbox…)
Jeff, how much money did you pay YouTube to host Tony’s videos?
How much money will they not make because they’re not doing it anymore?
Add these two numbers to determine how much they care about you.
To whom? I can’t get in touch with a human, is the problem. I’m not “dwelling.” I’ve been actively trying to get in touch with someone at YouTube since this happened.
But hey. Don’t want to be a whiner. So how’s this: I DEMAND THAT YOU RESTORE MY CHANNEL, YOUTUBE!
Well, that “I Demand …” would be a good start. Fwiw, I’m on your side here.
Keep in mind this – you’re dealing with a customer service bureaucracy, mentioning “lawyer”, “legal action”, and “counter claim” in an email communication will (probably) move you out of the customer service queue and into a separate one, one with actual people. And, while this might feel personal to you, it’s likely that the YouTube people are simply following protocol. The Wicks and Shannons and such are another matter. That stuff is personal.
Here’s a link to a cached site that addresses filing counterclaims w/ YouTube.
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ilAElnsIiC8J:www.tagg.org/YouTubeFox0710.html+youtube+copyright+%22counter+claim%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
You may glean some useful information from it.
This is part of that page:
http://www.chillingeffects.org/responses/notice.cgi?NoticeID=1048#text_FAQID8044
Check with Tony C. and discuss what the copyright issues are. If you’re acting on his behalf in this, and it seems you are, there ought not be an issue.
Also, parts of your catchwrestle channel are cached, that may help with your regaining some of the work you’ve done.
At the moment, simply having the Catchwrestle channel reopened – even temporarily – allows you to backup all the videos and descriptions and get the contact information for the subscribers. You can then look to develop alternate disribution channels – direct marketing through local clubs, buying advertising on phpbb boards, et cetera.
–
Strong stuff there, BumperStickerist.
I would suggest sending the stuff by post or FedEx or whatever with return receipt requested, attn: Legal. Make ’em sign for it. Another attention getter.
Oh, c’mon mcgruder. Do you really expect us to believe that without links? You know, just a dozen or so to some of the best stuff..
But seriously, this sort of thing sux. Just about the time we were getting some traction with accountability of the news media we’ve got new media that’s controlled by even more faceless and unaccountable twatwaffles. I suppose setting up an independent video web site is out of the question?
Jeff, have you done this yet? I mean, just in case?
(from You tube instructions for dealing with false accusation of copyright infringement)
Copyright Claim Disputes: Filing a counter notice
Please note that this page lists 2 different processes:
DMCA counter notice
International counter notice
How do I file a DMCA counter notice?
The process for counter-notifications is governed by Section 512(g) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act: http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
To file a counter notification with us, you must provide a written communication that sets forth the items specified below.
Please note that under Section 512(f) of the Copyright Act, any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification may be subject to liability. Please also be advised that we enforce a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers who are repeat infringers. Accordingly, if you are not sure whether certain material infringes the copyrights of others, we suggest that you first contact an attorney.
Elements of Counter-Notification
A sample counter notification may be found at: http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca/counter512.pdf. To expedite our ability to process your counter notification, please use the following format (including section numbers):
Identify the specific URLs of material that YouTube has removed or to which YouTube has disabled access.
Provide your full name, address, telephone number, and email address, and the username of your YouTube account.
Provide a statement that you consent to the jurisdiction of Federal District Court for the judicial district in which your address is located (or San Francisco County, California if your address is outside of the United States), and that you will accept service of process from the person who provided notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) or an agent of such person.
Include the following statement: “I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I have a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of a mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.”
Sign the notice. If you are providing notice by e-mail, a scanned physical signature or a valid electronic signature will be accepted.
Send the written communication to the following address:
YouTube, LLC
Attn: YouTube DMCA Counter-Notification
901 Cherry Ave.
Second Floor
San Bruno, CA 94066
Fax: 650.872.8513
Email: copyright@youtube.com
or fax to:
(650) 872-8513, Attn: YouTube DMCA Counter-Notification
or email to:
copyright@youtube.com, Subject: YouTube DMCA Counter-Notification
What happens next?
After we receive your counter-notification, we will forward it to the party who submitted the original claim of copyright infringement. Please note that when we forward the counter-notification, it includes your personal information. By submitting a counter-notification, you consent to having your information revealed in this way. We will not forward the counter-notification to any party other than the original claimant.
After we send out the counter-notification, the claimant must then notify us within 10 days that he or she has filed an action seeking a court order to restrain you from engaging in infringing activity relating to the material on YouTube. If we receive such notification we will be unable to restore the material. If we do not receive such notification, we may reinstate the material.
DISCLAIMER: WE ARE NOT YOUR ATTORNEYS, AND THE INFORMATION WE PRESENT HERE IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. WE PRESENT THIS INFORMATION FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
How do I file a counter notice (International complaints*)?
To file a counter notification with us, you must provide a written communication that sets forth the items specified below. Please understand that filing a counter notice may lead to legal proceedings between you and the complaining party to determine ownership. Be aware that there may be adverse legal consequences in your country if you make a false or bad faith allegation by using this process. Please also be advised that we enforce a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers who are repeat infringers. So, if you are not sure whether certain material infringes the copyrights of others, we suggest that you first contact a lawyer.
Elements of Counter Notification
To expedite our ability to process your counter notification, please use the following format (including section numbers):
Identify the specific URLs of material that YouTube has removed or to which YouTube has disabled access.
Provide your full name, address, telephone number, email address and the username of your YouTube account.
Provide a statement that you will accept service of process from the person who provided YouTube with the original copyright complaint or an authorised agent of such person.
Include the following statement: “I have a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of a mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.”
Sign the notice. If you are providing notice by email, a scanned physical signature or a valid electronic signature will be accepted.
Send the written communication to the following address:
Attn: YouTube Copyright Counter Notification
Gordon House
Barrow Street
Dublin 4
Ireland
or fax to:
+353 1 437 0741, Attn: YouTube Copyright Counter Notification
or email to:
ukcopyright@youtube.com, Subject: YouTube Copyright Counter Notification
What happens next?
After we receive your counter notification, we will forward it to the party who submitted the original claim of copyright infringement. Please note that when we forward the counter notification, it includes your personal information. By submitting a counter notification, you consent to having your information revealed in this way. We will not forward the counter notification to any party other than the original claimant. We may then reinstate the material in question at our discretion.
*If you have questions about the originating locale of the complaint against your video, please email copyright@youtube.com
DISCLAIMER: WE ARE NOT YOUR ATTORNEYS, AND THE INFORMATION WE PRESENT HERE IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. WE PRESENT THIS INFORMATION FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
Youtube is adamant, btw, that they will roundfile any request on your behalf by a friend to look into or correct an erroneous suspension.
Yourself or a lawyer, must contact them, or they toss the requests into the trash.
Jeff, This is Jake Shannon. You have my email and phone number, you could have simply called and asked me before putting libelous statements online (which I have now save to my computer). Dude, I thought we had an agreement and respect. You never followed up and now you are smearing me again, come on dude… I will actually do you a favor and let you know that it may be the guy that produced Tony’s DVDs originally, Paul Viele. You actually have to have a legitimate copyright claim and I think Viele would have a strong case. Really, Billy Wicks or me? I have way better things to do than waste my time on petty B.S., you should know that man. By the way, you say things on the phone and say different things online.
Well, that bit of informaiton ertainly changes things. Paul Viele makes the assertion that he has the original Beta masters of Tony Cecchine’s material, is selling the videos, and has video clips on World Martial Arts. He’d seem to be the – in legal terms – aggrieved party.
Shannon —
Billy Wicks just joined Tony’s mailing list the day after the channel was removed. Some coincidence.
Viele has been selling LAOH alongside Tony for years.
I wrote nothing libelous here. I said I suspected you might be involved. I have a right to my suspicions. And I find it curious that you’d show up here after this went down. How did you even know?
Curious.
[…] I have my suspicions. And I’ll note that when he responded in an earlier thread, Mr Shannon was quick to lay the blame off on […]
Jeff, I just feel that you have been a little disingenuous. You said after our long discussions on the phone that we would collaborate evidence and write something together. Instead I never heard anything from you. Anyway, I can see you aren’t interested in working together, it really seems you just jump to conclusions without any real evidence.
I don’t have “henchmen” or even care enough to bother with all that. I have a 21 month year old and a small business to run.
I happened upon your page when I did a google search. I saw you stirring up stuff with my name and Mr. Wicks. That’s how I found out about your YouTube problem. I am curious, if you actually find out who was responsible and that you are wrong about me, will you apologize or make a retraction?
…a google search on my name and the key word “libertarian”
I think it takes about a month for Youtube to reply
youtube is very addicting, i spend 5 hours a day just watching videos on youtube*:~
everyone is addicted to youtube, and everyonle like to upload videos on youtube.”~