Not according to the pundits but rather to the undecideds. Who, let’s face it, are undecided at this point for a reason:
If you want to assess the “winner†of a campaign debate, the only data that matters is the post-debate polling  not the pronouncements of the pundits. It will be some days before we see what effect the McCain-Obama debate at Ole Miss has on the national polls, but in this first 24 hours following the meeting, we already have several data points to consider. All of them bode poorly for McCain. A CBS News/Knowledge Networks poll has Obama winning a plurality of uncommitted viewers. A Frank Luntz focus group of undecideds gave the edge to Obama. A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll of viewers nationwide yielded a majority for an Obama victory. (Commentary’s Noah Pollak and RedState’s Jeff Emanuel rightly note a partisan skew in the CNN/ORC sample, but do not explore what this may signify: a significant edge in Democratic enthusiasm, manifesting itself in audience composition.) Most shocking is the Democracy Corps survey which, though a Democratic outfit, stacked its focus group 2-1 with ‘04 George W. Bush voters  and yielded a plurality for an Obama win.
The bottom line is that John McCain did not accomplish what he needed to: discredit Barack Obama as a responsible steward of America’s fortunes abroad. A major theme of his campaign is Obama’s callowness and consequent unfitness to lead in wartime. The failure to expose this posited shallow grasp of the wider world  a remarkable proposition about a half-Kenyan raised in Indonesia anyway  is a serious erosion of credibility for McCain. To find a foundational proposition of one’s candidacy rendered ineffectual is a tremendous blow.
You may discuss.
Me, I’m going to watch football. But I will say this: it appears we are moving toward an historic day — not the day when the U.S. elected its first black President (which, while it will be a first and so historic in a trivial sense, is of pedestrian measure to those of us who don’t bother to worry about skin color in the first place), but rather the day that the strategy to overwhelm classical liberalism from the inside out finally takes hold, and leads us down a path followed by Western Europeans toward a micromanaged society run by progressive elites and their cronies.
Representative democracy was always dependent upon the willingness of voters to educate themselves. Which means that the ways they are educated and informed will always be important.
Today, we as a nation (and here I’m speaking in very general terms: a slight plurality, which, to Democrats, is a “mandate”) seem more concerned with popularity than with character, more interested in easy soundbite platitudes than with complicated ideas and how to fix difficult problems. Part of that problem was the difficulty the Bush administration has had in explaining itself — in getting its national security message out to the people without the filter of hostile press spin. Too, we can lay blame on the Bushies for “compassionate conservatism” — which is nothing more than a failed effort to emulate some of the social policies of Dems that are popular with an electorate increasingly looking for promises of more and more government help. Unsurprisingly, this watering down of conservatism wasn’t seen as a gesture of good will, or of agreement in principle, by Democrats. Instead, it was viewed as an encroachment onto their power base: promises to solve problems without concern for spending — the free lunch pitch — is a staple of Democratic politics, and they would be damned if they were going to let somebody like George Bush take a piece of their pie. Politics, after all, is about power; and as the Fannie/Freddie fiasco unfolds, we can see why it is profitable for some to put power above any other consideration, provided they have the cover of a sympathetic media to spin away their transgressions as some much partisan cotton candy.
We have been molded, little by little, into a nation of needy children — by nannystatists, PC fearmongering, and multiculturalist demands on the left, and by copycats on the right, who often assume the guise of social moralists. And as such, we play “pass the buck” as easily as we might “kick the can” — waiting for mommy state and daddy state to put the household in order.
Meantime, we just want to play with our Wii’s.
On the plus side of all this, it looks like our pal Larisa will be able to put away her Glock and call the subcontractors to cancel her order for the terracotta tiling she’d planned to have laid in her fallout shelter.
The revolution will indeed be televised; but it will be a short, bloodless revolution, with levers and curtains rather than bullets and body bags auguring the end days of a once great notion.
And, to borrow from Larisa, thank God it didn’t come down to violence!*
‘Classical liberalism’ rises again like a Phoenix rising from the flames of ‘conservative fatigue’. When once it was a proud Brandname, now it is something to inspire derision and derogation.
Changing the name ‘Edsel’ to ‘Yugo’ does not fundamentally change the craftsmanship of ideology which mimics Borat and his quest for Serbo-Croation engineering excellence.
If you watched the debate with the live graphs of audience reaction, you had to notice the Independents dive for the bottom the more McCain preposturated. That’s your Elba, conservatives.
“We”?
What you mean “we”, white man?
Old joke.
What “we” think and believe will become clear in early November, and not before. As a post-mortem, assuming the mortem part, your post might make some sense – might, I said – but as a pre-mortem, it is at best premature, and at worse a judgment which many of us are not about to make about the perspicacity of our fellow (gender-neutral word in this context) voters.
We will see how many are fooled, or precisely how many yearn for the kind of nanny-statism being offered by one (and sometimes both) of the major parties. Until then, I refuse to give up hope, or to sink into this kind of cynical forecasting prompted by polling which is meant to discourage, intimidate, and mislead us into thinking that important decisions by our voting have already been made.
They haven’t.
Those decisions will be made – can only be made – in the privacy of the voting booth.
No sooner.
Thankfully.
I, for one, welcome our new chekist overlords. And now, like Jeff, I am going to watch the Broncos destroy my Chefs…er, Chiefs.
It’s all going according to Ramesh Ponnuru’s cunning plan, Jeff. Checkmate! HaHAH!
I thought I had hit the button for an Allahpundit post on Hot AIr, this was so pessimistic… but seriously, I see what you are saying, but am not ready to write the epitath of the Republic just yet.
We survived Jimmy Carter, with the USSR still around at the time.
Should Sen Obama win, we have to make sure that we do not just throw up our hands and say “thats it”. Try to keep the sunlight on that which they would want hidden, and get ready for the next election with more than go along to get along folks on the ballot.
#5
I’m glad you’re optimistic, but due to recent developements I can’t help but think that those of us who do not vote for the magic “O” will be delt with in a not so comforting manner.
Eh focus groups can be taken with a grain of salt, I think.
Subject to too much Bradley Effect. Its a room full of people who claim to be undecided and maybe some are but there’s plenty of reasons they might claim that, including being sensitive to the racist charge esp. in front of other people.
Eh focus groups can be taken with a grain of salt, I think. Subject to too much Bradley Effect.
Not to mention that it’s far from a given that these are truly representative samples. Do you trust CBS, CNN, etc. to not stack the deck?
I don’t. Not when Axelrod is on the job.
Maj, since you are living in the most Socialist part of America, the military, doncha think you should STFU while violating military protocol about endorsing one Party over another. Or are you some Private Merc?
Complete Utter Hypocrisy in other words.
Enjoy your pension brought to u by those who have to work in the private sector who had their pensions gutted by Republican principles.
“danial” is DataDave.
And I just TrollHammered him. Goodbye, dd.
RE: danial dopinski. This word socialist, I don’t think it means what you think it does.
I have been politically active for more years than I like to remember, have voted in every presidential election since I became 21, am the only person I personally know who has ever been polled by the Gallup poll, hardly ever hear anyone in my various circles, church, work, sporting events, seriously discuss real political insights and yet the election has already been settled by results presented by liberal Obama kissing organizations.
Good Night Harry Truman wherever you are.
(the TrollHammer thing just removes his posts from my display — the rest of you will still see him).
danial dopinski
Sorry to hear about your pension. What Republican principle was it that gutted yours?
In one swoop, the superiority of John McCain on foreign affairs was laid waste says Joshie Trevino. He’s the most perspicacious one I think. A lot of us missed the swoopyness, but not Joshie. I bet he drives a really nice car, being so smart and all.
For the record, I thought McCain was the clear debate winner.
The press seems to think people like to vote for a winner. They also know that Americans love an underdog. So they’ve managed to cast the poll leader as an underdog, all while, through tone and content and selection bias, created the “buzz” for Obama.
We find these truths to be self evident. At least, I do.
But it’s possible my Sunday ennui is more to do with a sick child and a sore throat than with other factors.
I think he might be talking about the Republican penchant to reform social security, i.e. privatization in the form of individual 401(k)s, so, ya know, our economy doesn’t collapse from a black hole of entitlements. B/c only the government can give out pensions IHAO. Otherwise, they’re just investments.
Whatevs. I gotta go look at bipods now.
OT, too: I went to a huge wedding & reception last night – irish/italian [him]& latino [her] couple. Really really jumpin’ kinda thing. It was neat seeing the church seating with all these old frumpy whites on one side then kinda ‘hey, where’s your tie? what’s with the droopy jeans?’ on the other. But everybody was really cool and knew each other for years. Dividing line was music, though, since Frank can’t do a salsa to save his life, apparently.
I’m convinced McCain can win, media bias not withstanding. I’m more worried about ACORN et al. frauding up the election. Imagine the progressive howls when conservatives accuse them of vote fraud.
sick child and a sore throat
Coke syrup over crushed ice.
Daughter and twins were all sick at once this past week … I did the grandmother thing and took care of ’em … sore throats and fever and general crankiness was the rule.
Comment by Semanticleo on 9/28 @ 10:27 am #
Translation, for the seman-impaired:
‘Quack quack’ quack quack quack.
Quackity quack, quack quack quack quack.
Quack quack quack quack quack.
” Imagine the progressive howls when conservatives accuse them of vote fraud.”
Reactionary leftists (not “progressives”) howl and quack whenever the truth is told about them.
ACORN is just one more data point.
@ #13: How do the rest of us use TrollHammer? Where is it? And will this be a problem for me to use it?
Still experimental, McGehee…. it’s working reasonably well, but I have some tweaking to do. I’ll announce it on the Pub when it’s ready for others to try out.
The first cut works in Firefox using the GreaseMonkey extension.
Comment by N. O’Brain on 9/28 @ 11:15 am
These yells will be extra loud. Violent loud? Maybs.
I am so tired of the right whining about media bias. Sure msnbc and cbs are left bias, so don’t waste my time with statements about these. But add in the the right wing puppets of fox news, almost all talk radio, apart from NPR of course, many publications and the entire religious right and you have very little to talk about.
Oh the media is just picking on poor little Gov. Palin. Well news flash. She is the new blood. Obama took, and still takes many hits. Remember the pictures of him in Kenyan garb plastured all over the internet trying to make him look muslim, add to this the cheap shots about his middle name, and the digging into his faith. Well guess what it’s Palin’s turn now, like it or not the media will find out everything they possibly can about a new candidate, they have to fill up the 24hr news with something. No you have not seen much on Biden, partially because he has been around so long in washington that there is not much new, and generally that has made people somewhat apathetic towards him.
And here is the biggest reality check, If the media is so left wing biased, how come we started 2000 with a Republican president and congress. And despite major screw-ups by both in regards to: national debt, Iraq, education, and losing a vast majority of manufacturing to overseas,a Repulican president was re-elected. So when McCain loses the next election don’t blame the press or media, look at where we have gone the past eight years.
I was just envisioning a lot of young people in hooded shirts breaking things if cheating is foiled and Obama doesn’t win. I hope that’s just anxiety from pseudoephedrine talking.
Focus groups are to actual opinion polls as “card check” is to actual elections.
“Comment by mike on 9/28 @ 11:40 am #
I am so tired of the right whining about media bias. Sure msnbc and cbs are left bias, so don’t waste my time with statements about these. But add in the the right wing puppets of fox news, almost all talk radio, apart from NPR of course, many publications and the entire religious right and you have very little to talk about.”
And what color is the sky on your planet?
Oh, and mike?
You can drop Iraq from your talking points list.
The MSM has.
Because we won.
Mustn’t credit W with ANYTHING, ‘mkay?
“If the media is so left wing biased, how come we started 2000 with a Republican president and congress. And despite major screw-ups by both in regards to: national debt, Iraq, education, and losing a vast majority of manufacturing to overseas,a Repulican president was re-elected.”
Ah, the “fair and balanced” position.
It goes like this, “How could the Republican win when no one I know and no one with any brains voted for them.” Answer is usually either “they stole the election” or “stupid people voted against their best interests”. And they keep doing it!
If O!’s elected I hope he makes Gitmo a reeducation center. I hear the food is good.
So, geoff, why IS Kansas so stupid?
“Remember the pictures of him in Kenyan garb plastured all over the internet trying to make him look muslim.” Yea that was pretty low on HillDawg’s part.
“Add to this the cheap shots about his middle name,” Purveyed by whom in the media, exactly?
“Digging into his faith,” is perfectly justified considering he spent 20 years listening to a racist spouting BLT (no not the sandwich).
“No you have not seen much on Biden,” because he is a gaffe-o-matic, must be kept out of the public eye and mind.
“2000 with a Republican president and congress…[left wing talking points]…a Repulican president was re-elected,” because if you present ideas fairly in a public setting, conservatives will win 9 times out of 10. O, and Americans are loathe to change presidents during wartime.
So yea, what color is the sky on your planet?
“look at where we have gone the past eight years,” sort of like ignoring the warning signs about FM/FM (see threads below), ignoring Bush’s call to reform in 2003, McCain’s in 2005. Maybe if you weren’t a memebot spouting out leftist talking points, your side’s failings would be more apparent.
Iraq hmm. let’s see:
1. Our militery is stressed to the max and than some.
2. Iran is more cocky than ever because of #1
3. We are not wanted there, so the chances of keeping a base there like the neo-cons want is nil.
4. Afganistan is out of control and way under funded.
5. Our national debt went from a(on paper)surplus to off the charts.
6. And when we had the no fly zone we had one heck of a good reason to keep one heck of a lot of firepower right on Irans doorstep.
So what credit should I give W ?
look at where we have gone the past eight years,†sort of like ignoring the warning signs about FM/FM (see threads below), ignoring Bush’s call to reform in 2003, McCain’s in 2005. Maybe if you weren’t a memebot spouting out leftist talking points, your side’s failings would be more apparent.
You had a Rep. congress and president dumbass, what more did you need for reform. Did the left have to give you the paper to write it on too?
“You had a Rep. congress and president dumbass, what more did you need for reform. Did the left have to give you the paper to write it on too?”
I guess the massive success of the Dem congress since 2006 (heh) illustrates that a party can have a congressional majority and still fail to accomplish their intended goals, cf. “Filibuster.”
So I’ll take that as an admission that the Dems steered us into the FM/FM subprime debacle, but the Republicans should have rescued us all from liberal stupidity whilst the libs stalled and caterwauled. Point taken.
I think that meme will be changed due to Kansas having “Gov. Katherine “Republicans are racists†Sebelius.”
h/t cjd
What state is ready for the Left’s Crown of Stupid award.
So I’m at work and the sanitation engineer comes by to empty my trash can. He says, “So whaddaya know?” and I say, “Not much.”
He says, “You gonna watch the debate?” and I say, “Maybe.”
Then he says, “I ain’t because I’m already gonna vote for Obama,” and I say, “Yeah, why?”
And he says, “Obama’s gonna get us out of the mess we’re in with how much gas costs, and the war,” and I say, “Don’t you think McCain’s wanting us to drill now is more effective than waiting around for 10 years or whatever for solar or whatever?”
And he say, “No, we can’t drill because it will kill all the animals,” and I say, “We drill cleaner than Venezuela,” and he says, “And all the animals in Venezuela are dead and all the birds flew off to the Carribean,” and I say, “Huh? What? Anyway, the caribou in Canada like the warmth of the pipe–” and he says, “But it’s slowly killing them, and anyway Canada is bigger than the US,” and I say, “Huh? But–” and he says, “Canada is built around really big lakes so their surface area is bigger than ours so the caribou can spread out,” and I say, “Built around big lakes? We have the Great–” and he says, “All our lakes drain directly into the ocean,” and I say, “Wait, what? I–” and he says, “That’s why I’m voting for Obama.”
And I was speechless. But I was thinking, “Datadave, is that you?”
(Note: This conversation really happened. I despair, but differently than Jeff does.)
“what more did you need for reform. “
60 Senators has been declared the new standard by the Democrats for getting anything through.
5. Our national debt went from a(on paper)surplus to off the charts.
You might want to Google ‘budget deficit’ and ‘national debt’ before you continue to broadcast you total ignorance further.
So I’ll take that as an admission that the Dems steered us into the FM/FM subprime debacle, but the Republicans should have rescued us all from liberal stupidity whilst the libs stalled and caterwauled. Point taken.
Well if you are going to say the rep’s wanted reform, then why did they not do anything about it? Face it, they were not that interested in taking a chance om ticking off the power brokers in wall street. This was a bi-partisian screw-up, kind of ironic that the big press points now is how the two sides are working together to clear it up. Mom always said to clean up my messes, i guess congress is finally learning something
When did the religious right become a media organization, what I want to know.
Iraq hmm. let’s see:
1. Our militery [sic] is stressed to the max and than some.
Faux outrage from the people who openly despise the military and categorically refuse to use it when necessitated. Yet our navy and air force, ya know, ~1/2 of the military, is still capable of taking the fight to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
2. Iran is more cocky than ever because of #1
Cocky? In the sense they have to import 40% of their gasoline and inflation is rampant? Or maybe in the sense that they’ve always been cocky since the days of killing Jews in Argentina and taking Diplomats hostage. What real power does Iran have besides in the heads of Western liberals?
3. We are not wanted there, so the chances of keeping a base there like the neo-cons want is nil.
I’m sure Major John, in addition to Michael Yon/Totten, that the US Army is one the most respected institutions in Iraq. Of course there will be bases. Try again.
4. Afganistan is out of control and way under funded.
Out of control a bit of an exaggeration.
5. Our national debt went from a(on paper)surplus to off the charts.
I don’t think you understand that the national debt is counterbalanced by the national wealth, i.e. a family’s share of the national wealth is numerically greater than its share of the national debt. But by all means, let’s not drill for our own oil (which as 10% royalty rate for all OCS and ANWR translates to $11.5 trillion)
6. And when we had the no fly zone we had one heck of a good reason to keep one heck of a lot of firepower right on Irans doorstep.
We’ve got bases in Qatar, SA, Afghanistan, etc. Nonsensical point.
Or the intarweb.
This was a bi-partisian screw-up.
You wish it was. The “bi-partisanship” of the bailout is a means for political cover, i.e. the Dems don’t want to have to own up to the failure of their socialist poison pill.
I don’t think Mike understands that the national debt under Clinton was never ‘a surplus’ nor a negative number, nor ever even declined.
Oh, look, mike’s got more Democrat talking points for us! OK, folks, how many of those six are false? I see five of them; the sixth is arguable — I’d say Iran is cocky because they see a lack of political will in the US.
Hard to imagine where they get that idea.
Mike –
you can credit W with the fact that all people in Iraq now have the same security that the Kurds did when we actively patrolled the now fly zone and are no longer taken away for rape and starvation.
Did you ever bother to ask the Iraqis if living their living in hell was an acceptable price for our containment of Iran?
Or since they be little brown monkey people, who gives a shit?
Further progress in Iraq:
ecological disaster in the Marshes averted,
Satellite tv, removal of Saddam praising texts in schools,
political progress in a still unified country,
beginnings of an independent judiciary,
popular control over a booming economy,
And a return to the Shitte model of separation of church and state being re-imported back into Iran, along with news and results of real, pluralistic voting.
I give W lot of credit.
5. Our national debt went from a(on paper)surplus to off the charts.
You might want to Google ‘budget deficit’ and ‘national debt’ before you continue to broadcast you total ignorance further.
Ah the classic conservative arguement, so substance to talk about so pick on the details, yes it was a budget surplus, sorry it has been so long ago i forgot the precise terminology. Now both are out of control and I don’t have to differentiate
That’s like forgetting the precise difference between the accelerator and the clutch.
“Comment by mike on 9/28 @ 12:01 pm #
Iraq hmm. let’s see:
1. Our militery is stressed to the max and than some.”
Our military is the best, most battle tested military in the world. Just one example: the US Marines are rolling all the duty personnell they can through the combat zones of Iraq and A-stan. There ain’t NOBODY that wants to fuck with us.
“2. Iran is more cocky than ever because of #1”
Iran, if they are stooopid enough to actually man up and try to face us, would last about 7 microseconds. So, no, they have zero to be cocky about.
“3. We are not wanted there, so the chances of keeping a base there like the neo-cons want is nil.”
And you know this….how? Reading “Mother Jones” magazine?
“4. Afganistan is out of control and way under funded.”
Every time the Taliban poke their collective head out of their caves, said head gets blown off like a varmint in an open field. If you consider that “out of control”, you better reexamine your premises.
“5. Our national debt went from a(on paper)surplus to off the charts.”
And, as a percentage of GNP, is at a historic low. Try redrawing your charts.
“6. And when we had the no fly zone we had one heck of a good reason to keep one heck of a lot of firepower right on Irans doorstep.”
As opposed to, you know, actually having armed forces on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Go look at a map.
“So what credit should I give W ?”
A leader who keeps his eye on the prize, no matter what snarky little internet trolls have to say about him.
But hey, lets throw a few billion to Acorn.
Comment by Adriane on 9/28 @ 12:19 pm #
Compare that to the crisis’ in multiple countries in Africa,
N. Korea , Iran, and areas of southeast asia. No Sadam was scum, but if that was why we went, when are we sending five brigades to Darfur? or don’t those “brown monkey people,” mater because they did’t try to kill Bush Sr. and have no oil?
Hudson: Well that’s great, that’s just fuckin’ great, man. Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? We’re in some real pretty shit now man…
Hicks: Are you finished?
Hudson: That’s it man, game over man, game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?
Burke: Maybe we could build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh? Why don’t we try that?
A leader who keeps his eye on the prize, no matter what snarky little internet trolls have to say about him.
A leader with a badly fatigued fighting force, no world support, and an out of control Afganistan. And by the way, if you have managed to keep up on the press, the Iraq government wants a timetable for withdrawl of our troops. No wonder Iran is so cocky.
Given all the ‘accolades’ Bush has collected for liberating the Iraqis I doubt the next POTUS will be keen on doing much liberating, in Darfur or pretty much anywhere else.
Take a look at this map, mike
http://tinyurl.com/3vdfya
look at where Iran is. Look at the countries she borders. Think about where the bulk of the US military is right now, and a good portion of our Navy.
Now do you think Iran is really feeling all that cocky, or is it the false bravado of one with their balls dangling a 1/4″ above a meat grinder?
We need timetables for withdrawal from the war on poverty.
A leader who keeps his eye on the prize, no matter what snarky little internet trolls have to say about him.
Like W?
Ahh, that was mike just beating his chicken hawk- he’s a war monger.
“No wonder Iran is so cocky.”
30 years ago the mullahs took our embassy personel hostage You just noticed that Iran was “cocky”?
Oh, mike was quoting without attribution. You really need to tighten your game up, mike.
– All of that is so very interesting Jeff, particularly since the FOX phone-in poll immediately following the debate, at last count something like 186,000 calls, not 600 or 1200 hundred people like all the “popular” national pollster sampl groups, had it at 68% McCain.
– Whats wrong with this picture. PEW anyone?
Ah, the old “if we can’t solve all the world’s problems, we shouldn’t solve any of them” crap, topped with “daddy issues” and “IT’S ALL ABOUT OIL!!!”
All these years, the arguments haven’t changed, and the arguers haven’t learned.
Every time the Taliban poke their collective head out of their caves, said head gets blown off like a varmint in an open field. If you consider that “out of controlâ€Â, you better reexamine your premises.
Try watching the news lately, then you wouldn’t look so ignorant.
The irony, it is strong in this one.
I believe mike believes he’s holding his own. An object lesson for the decline of the American education system if ever there was one.
– The entire system is rigged to the Dems, the MSM, and their pollsters.
– Even with that, McCain is going to beat Obama like a tan drum.
“when are we sending five brigades to Darfur? or don’t those “brown monkey people,†mater because they did’t try to kill Bush Sr. and have no oil?”
China Invests Heavily In Sudan’s Oil Industry
Beijing Supplies Arms Used on Villagers
By Peter S. Goodman
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, December 23, 2004; Page A01
Try watching the news lately, then you wouldn’t look so ignorant.
“militery”… “than some”
Another Chicago Annenburg Challenge graduate. From ACORNs grow big dopes.
“I believe mike believes he’s holding his own. An object lesson for the decline of the American education system if ever there was one.”
Hmmm. what a bold and yet incredibly empty statement. But then again that has become the new slogan for the right
LOL, I know it’s not as direct as saying Hope for Change, but did you seriously just say that?
Try watching the news lately, then you wouldn’t look so ignorant.
Try going over here:
https://proteinwisdom.com/pub/?author=22
and reading all the posts labeled “Positive News From Afghanistan”. You won’t be so ignorant and will understand a bit more about media bias.
Opines little mike:
“Hmmm. what a bold and yet incredibly empty statement. But then again that has become the new slogan for the right”
No, just an accurate one, especially in your case. Face it, sonny. Clearly you could not think your way out of a New Orleans whorehouse. And the more you post, the more idiotic you appear.
Try going over here:
“https://proteinwisdom.com/pub/?author=22
and reading all the posts labeled “Positive News From Afghanistanâ€Â. You won’t be so ignorant and will understand a bit more about media bias.”
Oh sorry i guess i find it more important coming from friends who are on the ground over there currently.
@ 67 Mike Try watching the news lately, then you wouldn’t look so ignorant.
I/ we do better than that. We ask our friends and family who are there.
Oh dear, he has first hand sources too.
I’m convinced, mike is a bot.
Playing the “ultimate moral authority” card is reflex coding in the program.
You see Mike, we too have first hand sources. Some of whom actually post here from time to time. But that doesn’t stop us from linking to other sourced material also – you know – deep well of knowledge and all that…
Oh dear, he has first hand sources too.
Don’t worry ThomasD. Goats and insurgents can not be trusted.
Oh sorry i guess i find it more important coming from friends who are on the ground over there currently.
Details, Dude? No names, but how about unit, rank, and location?
You need more protein and more wisdom. How reliable are these sources –not ! But even if they were truthful–so what are you going to do ? Your reaction is exactly the one they want: doom and gloom. I will vote against Obama not matter what and no matter who wins we will have to live with it. So get a life move on and support Mccain.
Why come no one ever says the insurgents need a timetable? I will wait for you to splain.
…friends who are on the ground…
You are talking about “militery personals,” right mike?
Well I have friends over there that say you are a poopy head. And I have friends in the Taliban who say “OUCH! We are getting our asses kicked over here!!!” And I have friends in Al Qaada that say “Dayyum! That George W. Bush is one bad ass motherfucker! And handsome, too!”
And I have friends on the Moon and Mars that are watching it all through Super-Telescopes that say it is all true.
I have bazillions of friends telling me this, how many do you have?
So mike, your friends over in Afghanistan are hiding under their bunks, stressed-out, fatigued, and ready to be over run by the Taliban?
That your story?
Never mind who exactly the ‘friends’ are. Mike flat out admitted he can’t even be bothered to consider any other sources of information.
Not a bot. Bots aren’t that closed minded.
you know – deep well of knowledge and all that…
Hmmm, you mean like the 12 different news stations i listen to, the multiple internet sources i check on a daily basis, watching regular militery updates that friends send me. You mean those, you arrogant want to be intellectual.
Howsabout you sod off, pal.
I’ve done my part over the last 7 years.
Mike, I gotta tell ya, I thought Jeff was just razzing you, but he’s right, and every post you make just reinforces it.
“You mean those, you arrogant want to be intellectual.”
I’m going for the elitist job for what it’s worth.
“So mike, your friends over in Afghanistan are hiding under their bunks, stressed-out, fatigued, and ready to be over run by the Taliban?”
well actually some are, you ever done multiple tours without seeing your family? while being shot at on a daily basis? And the biggest stress is the fact that the insurgants are using the knowledge they learned in Iraq regarding IED’s in Afagaistan now. So do you blame some from being a bit stressed?
…Afagaistan…
No need to get all homophobic, mike.
Comment by ThomasD on 9/28 @ 1:22 pm #
You have not made one single intelligent statement yet. Try making an informed and substance filled post. All i’ve heard from you is blah blah blah. Kind of like a movie critic who couldn’t write a script to save their life. Or just shut up and go read Fox News
“So do you blame some from being a bit stressed?”
You seem a little stressed.
“…that we, as a nation, are poised, after decades of sound-bite news coverage, identity politics, and star-fucking, to elect an inexperienced charlatan President based almost entirely on his abilities to generate “buzz†and reframe all his leftist positions so that they play to uncritical centrists and mainstream Democrats.”
We have declined, as a nation, in our ability to identify and call out the charlatan. One can only hope there are sufficient numbers left who can see through the BS offered by the Democrat candidate.
And yes, per tanstaafl, there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.
you ever done multiple tours without seeing your family? while being shot at on a daily basis?
You left out the part about watching your fellow soldiers razing villages in a manner reminiscent of Jenjis Kahn.
well actually some are, you ever done multiple tours without seeing your family?
Mike, are you under the impression those “multiple tours” are mandatory?
That blah blah blah sure has you going whaa whaa whaa.
Or was that too intellectual?
You have not made one single intelligent statement yet. Try making an informed and substance filled post
Hey, asshole, I directed you to a whole fucking series of posts by a real Soldier who has done multiple tours of Afghanistan, and you blew them off without even reading them with some unsubstantiated bullshit about some friends you have. Either put up or shut up, you haven’t brought anything here but bad grammar, bad spelling, and a fucking trainload of the dumbass.
mike —
I don’t know who convinced you you were either smart or informed, but were I you, I’d seek that person out and slap him or her with a rolled up newspaper.
here
“In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector.” ~Ann Coulter
Witness Fannie and Freddie where, per Ann, your welfare payments and government freebies could count as “qualifying” income.
Barry would dearly love to be in a position to enlist the machinery of the federal government to accomplish what he failed to accomplish as “community organizer.” The millions of the Annenberg Challenge didn’t do squat for education in Chicago, probably didn’t even do squat for brainwashing the kiddies to think like good would be revolutionaries, Bill Ayers’ real objective.
We’re totally out of $ (hey, print some !) but Obama said in response to J. Lehrer’s question that his “early childhood initiative” would be too important to cut.
“Comment by mike on 9/28 @ 12:32 pm #
A leader who keeps his eye on the prize, no matter what snarky little internet trolls have to say about him.
A leader with a badly fatigued fighting force, no world support, and an out of control Afganistan.”
mikey be hypmotized by the mantras.
And you call US ignorant, you retarded reactionary?
Well said B Moe, Jeff…
I would just like to ask mike, do you support Obamas stance with regards to Pakistan? And are you going to support a widened war between Afghanistan and Pakistan if President Obama orders it as Commander in Chief?
“Comment by lee on 9/28 @ 1:16 pm #
So mike, your friends over in Afghanistan are hiding under their bunks, stressed-out, fatigued, and ready to be over run by the Taliban?”
mikey has friends in the UN?
I’m pretty sure he is. With tweezers.
Ba da boom! I’ll be here all week, folks.
I can just see Obama leaving Iraq weak, and opening a front in Pakistan, leaving US forces surrounded by Taliban at it’s front in Pakistan, Iran at the rear, and flanked by an unstable Iraq presenting the same problems Pakistan is now.
“…you ever done multiple tours without seeing your family?”
My son did a deployment with the 22nd MEU, and will be deploying with 3/8 to A-stan sometime in November.
So, sod off, swampy.
Comment by cranky-d on 9/28 @ 1:50 pm #
You forgot “Try the veal!”
“…for Ayers and company it’s now or never. If the long term trends are running against them, then it is Power now, by any means necessary”
I believe that’s the case and is the same mentality informing the stealth Soros funding of the entire charade.
(adios for the nonce)
– The Proggs have risked it all on a single throw of the dice. Then along comes this nannystate funding collapse, and they see the whole house of partisan cards collapsing.
– Of course their out in force, trying desperately to prop up their paper tiger.
Whew, been out getting mugged by reality and all that. If the price of buffalo wings stays at 39 cents/unit, I think this economy will do just fine.
im of the mind that the idea of voting against obama for fear of nanny-statism and excessive spending is kind of dead for most people. the nanny state has grown rather robustly under the gop he last 8 yrs, and the days where the GOP could be considered fiscally conservative have been dead for more than 8 yrs.
im not saying they arent compelling arguments from the standpoint of “it’ll get a lot worse…” but classic liberalim has existed only in the blogosphere for some time now.
obama is a tool and the democratic party is sufficiently left enough to screw it up yet, but when the entire financial construct of the US has to be bailed out, a vote against the GOP is not hard.
sigh.
#67
Try watching the news lately, then you wouldn’t look so ignorant.
The irony, she is exquisite!
This one really cracked me up. To see all you frustrated wingnuts jump on Mike cuz your side’s losing and there’s nothing else you can do at the moment except tell someone he’s dumb because he’s not a great speller. (Spelling is not a predictor of intelligence, people!) I know, I know, you would be jumping on Mike regardless of what else was happening. That’s what makes this place such a joy and a delight.
A few things:
First of all, Jeff, it’s not over yet. This campaign is a roller coaster ride. So just hang on.
Second, anyone know what preposturate means? Semanticleo used it in the first comment but I can’t seem to find it in the dictionary.
Third, one of the things that bugs me the most about you guys (and I have to admit I sometimes (rarely?) think you’ve got good ideas and make good points) is this absolute belief that people on the other side hate the military. Veterans are as divided between the two parties as the general public: http://afs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/33/3/414. You think all veterans hate the military too? Continually asserting something that just isn’t true discredits your other arguments.
Happyfeet, you already told me how smart I am.
Then why do you do it?
“is this absolute belief that people on the other side hate the military.”
Who’s preventing ROTC from being on certain campuses? Lunatic lefties.
Who controls the Demorat party? Lunatic lefties.
“Veterans are as divided between the two parties”; I see the abstract, whole paper unavailable. Show me the data set and I’ll believe it, otherwise no deal.
Until the Democrats are no longer in the grasp of the far left, I will keep assuming Dems, de facto do not support the military.
O, and maybe when vets cars stop being vandalized, bombs at recruiting centers, no ROTC at many campuses, so yea. A justified bias.
Hey, maybe Hollywood will pump out 11 movies this year portraying soldiers as something other than raging mongols reminiscent of Jenghis.
Or maybe it the left’s penchant to use soldiers as props that makes vets think the left cares.
“Continually asserting something that just isn’t true discredits your other arguments.
Then why do you do it?”
The other frequently used tactic is to leave such vague statements in a hope to sound superior. If this is really how you feel, then write a rebuttal. Just leaving an empty statement out there with no substance makes no sense. This is a forum to allow communication of ideas. By writing things like this, you simply show you have none.
The irony is poor with the trolls today.
Drills inclusive argument, closely related to the “Why Iraq and not Durfur” argument, is along the lines of: if you can’t say it about 100% of Democrats, you can’t say it.
The point is drill, the current democrat leadership, supported by a majority of voting democrats, only value the very idea of the military when it is under their control, and then as a purely political tool, most usually in need of deep cuts.
The irony is poor with the trolls today
case in point dumbass
Heh, this could be a flame war.
Mike, how about a substantive response to #107?
“If this is really how you feel, then write a rebuttal. ”
Then respond to #71 Comment by dre on 9/28 @ 12:50 pm #
“is this absolute belief that people on the other side hate the military.â€Â
It is actually a belief that people who hate the military are on the other side, which is quite a different thing.
A couple of questions.
How many of our new left-side posters are graduates of the wonderful “Camp Obama” community organizing three day workshops?
If you are then how is your period of indentured servitude working out?
>>This is a forum to allow communication of ideas.
Not exactly. This is a forum for folks who think that CSNY’s “Teach the Children” is vaguely antipatriotic and Gramscian.
Thus, its not like you’ve any ideas that will make any degree of sense. There just isn’t enough common ground.
For example: You might think I’m being funny. Or serious, for that matter. Actually, I’m being neither.
oh crap… I’ve been busy creating a political cartoon … have I missed much? Any troll bits left for me?
Mike, Semanticleo, etc.
Rather than address every idiotic talking point of yours, I’ll just throw this on the table:
I’ve got a $20 bill that says if Golden Boy is elected, by 20 January 2010 (i.e., one year after inauguration), most of those who voted for him (including, presumably you), will look at themselves in the bathroom mirror every morning, spit at their reflections, and mutter, “What the f*** was I thinking when voted for that community-organizing huckster?”
I’ve got another $20 bill that predicts the following:
1. A future President Obama’s “honeymoon” with Congress (Democratic or not) is going to be very nasty, brutish, and short.
2. Obama will be a general trying to stay in front of his troops. Do you think Archbishops Pelosi, Dodd, Schumer, Clinton, Frank, Kennedy (if he’s still alive), and Reid are going to take their marching orders from a wet-behind-the-ears backbencher who got lucky? Cracker, puh-leeeze.
3. By January 2010, Obama’s approval ratings will be in rapid free-fall–below 50%. Just imagine the response from his base after his glumly tells them, “Remember what I said about leading you to the Promised Land? Forget about it.”
4. Obama won’t able to vote “present” any more: there will be a major crisis during the first year–and he’ll be found wanting. You, my moonbatty friends, still don’t understand your Messiah: he really thinks he’s the smartest dude in the room but, at the same time, he wants to be liked by everybody in the room too. And there lies the road to frustration, heartbreak, and disappointment.
That’s my wager, moonies: ante up…or shut up.
“I would just like to ask mike, do you support Obamas stance with regards to Pakistan? And are you going to support a widened war between Afghanistan and Pakistan if President Obama orders it as Commander in Chief?”
Oh you mean this joke. You obviously don’t recognize political posturing when you see it. The idea is to look strong to the independent hawks, and thus avoid looking like the dove the repub’s have painted him to be.
If you listened to the interview today with Syed Husainy he expressed a strong desire to work with us in the western region of his country. But going into his country in the first few days of his presidency was a dumb move on our part. Makes him look weak, in a country that is one of the least stable in the region.
He expressed NO hostility towards the US, and stated the “firing,” on our helicopters was a flare to let them know they had crossed the ambiguous border between the countries.
Thinking that Obama is going to start a war with Pakistan is fear mongering and you know it.
And if you want to get into fear. How about Palin saying she would get into a war with Russia. Oh yeah I can see that one going real well.
How about Palin saying she would get into a war with Russia
liar
Or, potentially, it is the Dem’s insistence that we legislate surrender in a hot war against a very real enemy with very real consequences that elicits the ire of the right. Dems purport that Islamic Extremism is a figment of the wingnut imagination whilst we fight it. SO maybe we’re a bit cynical in the estimation the left gives to all matters military.
O, don’t forget Jack Murtha, that fuck.
“How about Palin saying she would get into a war with Russia”
Have you heard of NATO and the responsibilities accompanying said treaty?
How about Palin saying she would get into a war with Russia
liar
Get the transcript from the interview with CBS. She was asked if Georgia was a part of NATO and there were hostilities with Russia, would we go to war against Russia. Her answer was “yes, we have a duty to protect any NATO country.” yeah great idea there. Well then again she know Russia so well because she can see them from Alaska.
“She was asked if Georgia was a part of NATO…”
Have you heard of NATO and the responsibilities accompanying said treaty?
SO she should undermine the very foundation of the treaty? Moron.
You obviously don’t recognize political posturing when you see it.
Ah, you agree then that Obama is an empty suit with no idea how to use the power, or potential power, of the military.
And if you want to get into fear. How about Palin saying she would get into a war with Russia.
I am much more comfortable with the VP candidate offering bluster, than the Presidential candidate giving Russia their talking points.
“yes, we have a duty to protect any NATO country.â€Â
That’s why there are krauts, cheese eating surrender monkeys, Danish donuts, English pit bulls, and Dutch dike fingers in Afghanistan Nimrod!
mike @ 142
You know you just called yourself a liar, don’t you?
Well, that and Palin wasn’t promoted as being some Lightworker or anything.
I am much more comfortable with the VP candidate offering bluster, than the Presidential candidate giving Russia their talking points
One heart beat away from the head seat. And the real scary part is that she wasn’t kidding. and to the idiot who stated not going to war with Russia undermines NATO. There are many steps available before going to war. this isn’t a punk country like Iraq or Iran. They are also a country we seriously need like it or not for negotiations. Going off on national television about how we would jump in and go after a country that still has enough nukes to end the world takes a lot more thinking then she gave it. Mutually Assured Destruction remember.
mikey
do you do anything besides lie? really. Because the NATO thing is not brain surgery.
Funny how mike can defend Obama’s posturing on Pakistan, then spout out, “Well then again she know Russia so well because she can see them from Alaska.” No attempts at normal social niceties. Everything is painfully literal. Not to mention that Alaska actually is the front line in a shooting war v. Russia, with all those military bases and missile defense installations and whatnot. Her knowledge of those things has no bearing on anything. Continue.
Man, don’t you know what political posturing is? Like duh
“she know Russia so well because she can see them from Alaska.”
You can got to Little Diomede island.
“And the real scary part is that she wasn’t kidding. and to the idiot who stated not going to war with Russia undermines NATO”
Sort of like when Hillary Clinton said: “If Iran nukes Israel, we’ll wipe them off the face of the Earth,” doesn’t mean she actually intends to use nukes against Iran in the event of a shooting war, friend. IT just asserts that we have the cards.
When you do the Obama mealy mouthed “There are many steps available before going to war,” shtick in a speech, you sound weak.
So what you idiots are saying is we should just attack the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Are you people nuts or just Morons.
Althought the fact that we are even having this discussion tells me how poor the Bush admin. has been at negotiating with Russia. This should be one of the highest priorities of who ever gets in. The old saying of “keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer.”
Heh.
Going off on national television about how we would jump in and go after a country that still has enough nukes [to end the world] to eliminate any army that marches through the Khyber Pass takes a lot more thinking then [she] Obama gave it.
Not many people here are rah rah McCain types. I think more are like “We got some dipshits and an asshole running, so I guess I gotta vote for the asshole” Mostly ’cause voting for dipshits is dipshitty.
So mike, when Obama threatens war with Pakistan (a nuclear power BTW) it is political posturing, I know it, and there is nothing to concern myself with.
But when Palin, not McCain but Palin, gives an answer to a theoretical situation and she answers using the premised Nato scenario, she is all wet. Also BTW, Her answer wasn’t limited to going to war, she qualified her answer by listing other options that would/could occur before military use.
“So what you idiots are saying is we should just attack the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. ”
Reading comprehension isn’t be taught in the collectivist schools this I’m sure.
“So what you idiots are saying is we should just attack the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world.”
Um, no. You assert the continuing validity of NATO, period. If Palin or whoever said, “we won’t defend a NATO country that is invaded by Russia,” then what’s the point of NATO? Might as well pack it all up and go home. What is so hard to understand about this?
>>Are you people nuts or just Morons.
No, ACe runs the Moron blogs
You obviously don’t recognize political posturing when you see it. The idea is to look strong to the independent hawks, and thus avoid looking like the dove the repub’s have painted him to be.
Let me see if I got this straight, Obama is posturing to look strong, when he really isn’t, to satisfy the warmongers who have wrongfully painted him as a dove. Which if he isn’t really the dove they have painted him to be, why would he have to posture to appear strong?
And what do you think Obama’s stand regarding NATO is? Are you suggesting Obama would break the treaty if Russia attacked one of our NATO allies?
I feel sorry for Mike’s wife or girlfriend. Obviously, commitments and oaths don’t mean anything.
HELP! Before I make this very important decision I need to know whom I’m voting for, I have no problem with McCain, his historical background have been presented pretty sufficient to make my own judgment about him. What bothers me is Sen. Obama’s, a number of his narratives are missing, much has been said about his childhood to highschool but nothing verified, he cannot even present a valid birth certificate with serial number in his own website, his boyhood time in Indonesia is MIA, he went to Columbia and Harvard, yet there is no documents to support, no classmates to acknowledge, no report cards. The job experiences he had since he graduated are what we are told he did, and no verifiable documents can attest what he did, what achievements he had, how he got there. There are many unanswered questions about this man and I hesitate to pull the lever for him not knowing what he really stands for. At the end of the day each one of us when we make a very difficult decision experience and values are the foundation. To the people who have decided to vote for Senator Obama, please educate me who is this man, what has he accomplished that you will be willing to hire him to be the POTUS. Thank you.
MaryL, maybe what you should do is make a nice casserole. Something interesting with tuna I think.
Ooh. Do the one with the tots and the cream of mushroom soup. That would be nummy I think.
Um, no. You assert the continuing validity of NATO, period. If Palin or whoever said, “we won’t defend a NATO country that is invaded by Russia,†then what’s the point of NATO? Might as well pack it all up and go home. What is so hard to understand about this?
YES i understand the point, But to jump on the militery options right from the start was stupid. We can cripple Russia in a couple weeks by not buying oil, embargo any suppplies from getting in and freezing their investments through the world. Their economy is still very weak, and creating a strong, not UN, program of worldwide restrictions could change their mind real quick. But give it a few more years, and we won’t have that option anymore. Real Diplomacy Now
ummm tuna caserole
Anybody else just wanting this stupid election to be over already? Big mistake to start it so fkn early but I’m betting thats whats going to happen from now on as long as I live.
hf
my mom used to make tuna caserole with potatoe chips…the thick ruffle cut ones. Yum.
er … potato
mikey
“We can cripple Russia in a couple weeks by not buying oil”
So Europe is shit out of luck for energy?
Hi Mr. Quayle
That sounds good. And clever, really. My favorite for real is the one with the tots and the mushroom soup and the peas and the onions and the ground beef. It’s simple but perfect comfort food. I made mom write that one down but I haven’t done it yet but she made it for me last Christmas.
BS mike. Georgia was a test, and no we can’t starve the fkrs. The world doesn’t revolve around the US’s decisions, we can only defend our own interests and try to convince others that our interests are their own. NATO is an obligation we have and one of the few functional multilateral ones.
YES i understand the point, But to jump on the militery options right from the start was stupid.
No dude, its not. The entire point of NATO is a 20+ force of countries to come down with righteous fury on Russia. No to play kumbya or make nice little peanut butter cookies during a sit down with Putin at Yalta discussing restructured import tariffs and potential WTO membership.
If Putin knows McCain/Palin is serious about using force, vis-a-vis public statements asserting such, then he will think twice before invading our friends.
Have you never taken a history class? We managed to go through the Cold War with *REAL* diplomacy consisting of, “If you fuck with my friend I’ll fuck you up even worse,” and everybody came out not all nuked up.
My mom’s tuna casserole was the best thing I ever ate. I cannot replicate it.
Maybe I’ve been leaving out the toes.
“BS mike. Georgia was a test, and no we can’t starve the fkrs. The world doesn’t revolve around the US’s decisions, we can only defend our own interests and try to convince others that our interests are their own. NATO is an obligation we have and one of the few functional multilateral ones”
Ok what part negotiations are you people not understanding. First of all Georgia is not a member of NATO currently. And if we are going to add them and the Ukraine we had better do some serious negotiations with Russia before-hand. It is a hell of a lot better to not even have to deal with the situation in the first place. But if we surround Russia with NATO countries and implement missle defense we are setting up about the same scenario as the Cuban missle crisis. The arrogance of Russia is near that of our own.
Well got to go, nice chatting with you guys and sharing these things. Maybe the candidates should tune in sometime and get some other views.
First of all Georgia is not a member of NATO currently
So, mike moves the goal posts safely away from his own argument (that Palin said war with Russia; in the context of a theoretical scenario, where Georgia is a NATO alley being invaded by Russia), and leaves the field.
Truly a Obama type.
Nobody has said Georgia is a NATO country. Also, what do base your allegation on for the US NOT engaging in diplomacy with Russia? Horseshit, that’s what.
Guess you missed all those summits, hmm. Looking into Putin’s eyes was the start of it and it’s followed through with the GS summits and with the State Dept.
Not that I think the Admin would bother to share all details with us, no, but its obvious that we’ve been talking the whole time, and I suspect there’s even been some military quasi-cooperation here and again.
But Georgia was a test. They told us Kosovo would have repercussions and it did – in Georgia. So now that we haven’t backed them up, where to go next? And what can we do about it?
Obama doesn’t like Georgia because the Georgians were supporting Bush in Iraq.
They are NOT getting the narrative and deserved to be squelched by the Russians.
Obama exudes that ultra liberal distaste for the military and our military allies.
He’s a chickenhawk… in the sense that he wants to “go after bin Laden”, knowing full well bin Laden is in Pakistan and knowing no one really wants to go into Pakistan and take on the risks that would entail.
Totally safe. Yell and yap about bin Laden, but then get all pragmatic. Notice the MSM has never pinned Obama down and insisted Obama say whether or not he’d invade a sovereign nation/erstwhile ally in the hunt for bin Laden.
This is heartbreaking. Al Gore, John Kerry, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Joe Biden. Are these the best the Democrats have to offer us? Granted, most conservatives are holding their noses over Bush and McCain. We are screwed. The last 16 years of candidates from both sides has been worse than mediocre.. I’d vote for Bill Clinton over ANY of these guys…
I also wanted to commend the Obama campaign for opening dialogue with Iran starting at the highest levels of power within the campaign… Code Pink.
’d vote for Bill Clinton over ANY of these guys…
Really?
I mean…Really?
It was under Clintons watch that terrorism got out of hand and Jamie Gorelic, Clintons Deputy Attorney General, late of Fannie May fame, erected the famous wall that prevented the dots being connected on 9/11.
Really?
Somolia? Janet Reno? Military cuts?
Really?
SteveG: I must agree. The Dems have some pretty thin gruel on offer anymore. I just filed for my mail-in ballot and changed to unaffiliated. And you fools can talk all you want about your comfort food casseroles. I am polluting the neighborhood by barbecuing baby back ribs with homemade Jim Beam sauce. They sell demon rum in Colorado on Sundays now!!
SteveG I’d vote for Bill Clinton over ANY of these guys…
Only if he would be my wingman. He seems like the kind who would be willing to take the fall… an equal opportunity fucker… talk up his buddy… set it all up. But never buys a round.
That’s pollutin’ of the good kind, cynn.
…embargo any suppplies from getting in…
And just how do we prevent other free and independent nations from trading with the Russians?
You mean like through a blockade, right?
You know that a blockade is an act of war, right?
#177
So. You’re saying I should clear it with my neighbors before I install a burglar alarm?
Not just your neighbors Rusty, but also clear it with crooks in their social club down by the corner.
The real tragedy here is not electing the first black or an extreme liberal but in the media. We no longer have a free media. We are being shown left wing propaganda.
Not just being shown. In many instances we actually pay for it.
(Spelling is not a predictor of intelligence, people!)
I disagree.
tanstaafl,
If spelling is a predictor, I am the dumbest sonabitch ever was able to breath. (Thank the Lord for spellcheck!)
…ever was able to breath
Or breathe, even.
Spelling & reading are brain functions. I’ve never encountered an “intelligent” brain that didn’t do both well.
Ribs!!!! Damn shame that Colorado is MILES from here.
oh. Consider me properly put in my place.
You forgot to point out: son of a bitch, even.
Thought you could use the help. That’s the great thing about being unintelligent I guess, humility.
It’ll be interesting to see how that runs as the WWII crowd dies out.
How come no one told me that someone was here talking through his butt about “Afagastan?”
Sheesh–you guys hog all the fun.
Rusty–
We’re apparently supposed to clear NATO membership with Russia beforehand as well.
1. Not true
2. Iran is cocky because Iran’s leadership is stupid. Nothing else.
3. Also not true.
4. Also not true. Increasing funding would be a plus, but it’s not a requirement.
5. …but not because of the war. The money spent over 7 years on the GWOT as a whole accounts for a fraction of deficits over the same period. And deficits have been declining since 2002, despite increases in war funding.
6. Complete non-sequitur. The no-fly zones had nothing to do with Iran and was something they generally approved of.
I’m still undecided. I’ve been a lifelong Republican. But I can’t imagine having Palin for President when McCain croaks. I don’t think I can vote Republican this time.
hmmmm
seems to be a bit more nuanced than mike said.
you left off, “concerned Christian”, moby.
Adam I have no capacity to relate to what you posted.
Ambivalence toward McCain as President, I could comprehend. But “can’t imagine Palin as President,” just doesn’t parse in any way that’s meaningful to me.
Not to mention that you are borrowing trouble where none exists. “When McCain croaks”? Why is that a foregone conclusion? McCain’s mother is 96, looks like she could be his older sister and is quite spry, mentally and physically. Contrast with SEN Obama whose parents both died before (father) or just after (mother) they were 50.
I don’t know, I still sort of see this as a battle of the bulge scenario. They are throwing EVERYTHING into this one. I suppose the thing that worries me is that most of us aren’t really throwing all of our strength back at them.
Also the odd do seem to be against us. I am not sure what the future holds but I do know what I believe in. I will go with that and try to convince as many people as possible that my thoughts on governing are more reasonable than theirs.
What I am terribly afraid of is that the socialist in this country have never understood that there are people here willing to fight back once they feel their backs are against the wall. I don’t want to see any violence, but from the more backwoods seedy fellows I know, this is sort of becoming their intention the more they see this sort of thing.
I don’t think anyone is thinking about that. I think they should.
What I am terribly afraid of is that the socialist in this country have never understood that there are people here willing to fight back once they feel their backs are against the wall. I don’t want to see any violence, but from the more backwoods seedy fellows I know, this is sort of becoming their intention the more they see this sort of thing.
Well, I believe the Founders of this country thought of such an attitude as a duty, and gave us the 2nd amendment to give teeth to the job.
Sometimes I despair.
I know for a fact that most of the people that I know didn’t watch the debate and only got any info about it from the MSM.
I looked at CNN’s homepage right after the debate and it had a picture of Obama and a paraphrase of his closing arguments. It was as if there hadn’t been a debate that night, as if Obama had just given a speech. MSNBC get’s it’s talking points from HuffPo and MoveOn. The local news here (Western WA) is rah rah for Obama.
People around here pick their candidate like they pick their sports team. There is no rhyme or reason, just emotion backed up with absolutely no understanding of the issues or the candidates.
So what’s the point of McCain won or lost (I thought he won) the debate, this election is a popularity contest and the “undecideds” swing back and forth depending upon which way the wind is blowing.
Two candidates with such diametrically opposed opinions on every single issue (except for all of the ones Obama agreed with McCain (sorry, “John”) about durring the debate), and so many people still haven’t made up their mind.
And a big chunk of America is going to vote for Obama because he’s black. It doesn’t matter what happens if we mess up the War on Terror or if our economy tanks or our education system continues to slip further behind the rest of the world. People are going to vote for him because he’s black. I just don’t get it.
Sorry for the rant (was that a rant? I don’t feel angry, I just despair). But when McCain does so well in the debate and Obama “uhhs and ahhs” and can’t remember the name on his bracelet WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE IS TO BE A REMINDER OF THE ONE WHO DIED! When McCain speaks about foreign leaders and financial crisis from personal experience and Obama ticks off lists of rehersed talking points and Obama’s poll numbers go up…what the heck? What’s the point of debating? What’s the point of fighting when even when you win…you loose?
Are you suggesting your teeth might get shot out?
208 for 206
And no…I’m not surrendering. I’m just spiraling into a deep, black depression.
I mean, how can the polls swing 15 points in two weeks? Who are going to be swayed by a speech or an ad or a rumor on a website or a mispoken phrase or a look or a smile or a celebrity endorsement? Who are these morons who, at this late date, after the longest political season in the history of America, can’t make up their minds about who should be the most powerful man in the world?
I ask and yet already know the answer. They are the people I always get in line behind at Jack-in-the-Box… Just get the Ultimate Bacon Cheeseburger for goodness sakes. Don’t pretend you want the salad. We’ve been here five minutes. Just make up your mind. We all know you want the burger. Yes, we’ll think it’s your own darn fault that you’re a big fattie, but get out of the way ’cause if I don’t get my own Ultimate Bacon Cheeseburger fix pretty soon I’m gonna pass out.
It is an approved maxim in war, never to do what your enemy wishes you to do, for this very reason: that he wishes it.
–Napoleon (from memory, so almost certainly not exact) (mainly because he said it in French)
One thing to remember about this tactically is that if it were in the power of the enemy to actually mobilize ala “Battle of the Bulge”, they would do so.
Does everybody remember the aborted “work for access” tried by the Obama campaign prior to his coronation stadium event? Originally attendees had to sign up for canvassing/phone calling/fundraising and sign up others, as well.
That flew like a lead fart in church, so they abandoned it.
O! has the old guard Left players – media, self-proclaimed intelligentsia (edu/actors), and the bought or wants-to-be-bought dependency demographics. And the ignorant, who are a direct product of the first two players.
The battlefield is not one of blood and fire but of narrative and perception.
The current economic disaster is like a flood coming down the canyon; there may be a battle going on in the canyon, but soon – and this is important – very soon neither side will have time to kill the other but instead must save themselves. And in the current situation, I think that the “full court press” is on precisely because if we want to know who blew the dam, it’s all out in the open.
Yet Pelosi, Frank, and Reid aren’t running for the lives. Yet.
I wrote “They’ve fucking won” on another post. Please don’t think that I’ve stopped fighting simply because I recognize they’ve almost certainly achieved their victory conditions.
They have forgotten – well, truly, have never understood – that “victory” isn’t something you declare. The enemy tells you when it happens.
*Well got to go, nice chatting with you guys and sharing these things.*
The pleasure was all yours.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”
— Sun Tzu