It’s true that Jeff’s called it quits for a while before, and it’s also true that he’s come back [and it’s also true that he was away for 18 months, at one point. Just so you know].  In the latest case, the leftosphere apparently just can’t let bygones be bygones and let him go.  From these people we’ve learned some interesting things.  For example, Jeff’s retirement was a thinly-veiled invitation for someone like David Brown to make a sick remark at his site about his child that will enrich Jeff just as much as the legal proceedings against Deb Fr**** already have [ha!] .  Further, that this is the pretext for another round of fundraising.
For my part, I think that at this time Jeff would be happy to be away from his blog.  I think it likely that Steve M is either the poster who recently wished him a painful malignancy (which may just be a normal salutation at Random House), or knows, despite his statements to the contrary, who that poster is.  I don’t think, and I don’t think Jeff thinks, that this individual, despite his or her depravity, poses as much a threat as our incontinent furry child-pron consuming friend.
I say that Jeff is indispensable to them, because it’s clear that they just can’t quit him, just as they seem to have trouble quitting Tony Snow even after he’s dead, where replication of offensive comments is tantamount to authoring the hateful comments.  They require their scary monster.  They’re so consumed by hatred of all that they think he represents that, if he didn’t exist, they’d need to invent him–if it weren’t for the general poverty of their capacity for invention (except for sock puppets who happen to admire the puppeteer in terms that sound indistinguisible the puppeteer himself).
They certainly think it’s terrible that Marcotte and McEwen received threatening comments after Marcotte’s animus towards Catholics was publicized after she went to work for Edwards.  I don’t disagree, and I don’t think it was wrong to complain about it.  But when Jeff receives crap like David Brown’s, mentioning his child, ferchrissakes, he ought to disregard it, it seems.  He’s hypersensitive.  He’s looking for an excuse to threaten people, vent his spleen, ruin their careers.  Do any of these people think it’s actually a bad thing that Deb F*****, who blackmailed her department into extending her contract, who stalked other people, who has repeatedly violated the originally rather lenient injunctions of her sentence, ought to be teaching at some college or university?
Because these people disagree with Jeff politically, he’s obviously the aggressor.  It can’t not be his fault.  He invites this kind of sickness.  He provokes it.  He is asking for it.  He’s not really human.  I mean, how could he be, believing as I like to believe he does?
“All right.  I’m off.”
“Cool.  Fuck you.”
I can’t think of a better way of making sure someone doesn’t leave.  Can you?
ÂÂ
If Jeff Goldstein did not exist, the (far) Left would have to invent him.
Magic marker and a clear blue easy?
Is asshattery the cause or effect for the folks like steve, tbagg, etal ?
If Marcotte and McEwen received threatening comments, that should also be condemned. I had no problem with people flagging some of their prior work when they were going to take a political job with a candidate for president. That much was par for presidential politics. But not threats, or death wishes.
Let’s see, would an educated and influential “progressive”, recently and perhaps in these pages, ever compare and equate uncovering and discussing the vilest of leftwing abuse about say, Snow’s death, with that abuse itself?
Nah. And certainly not throughout a comment thread numbering hundreds of posts. Not repeatedly, no. Nor consistently. And not without chagrin or balance. No, one can’t even imagine such a thing.
Surely that ideology is as noble as it is sturdy, Dan.
Jeff does take a lot of abuse.
JD: you should read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer, if you haven’t already done so. The mob mentality doesn’t really have much to do with mask it presents to the public. These tards would just as readily dress up in jackboots or queue up to burn witches. What matters to them is that there’s a movement of some kind in which they can submerge their personal feelings of inadequacy. It’s all about ego suicide.
Homophobe. I denounce you.
Calling out sophists and sophistry has ever been thus. Exposure threatens to take away their source of income. They must react. It is simple self-preservation from their point of view.
Spies – Thanks. I am going to pick that up tonight.
Racists.
I wish you all could join me an alppuccino on the golf course tomorrow.
DFSPFD, JD
I wish you all could join me an alppuccino on the golf course tomorrow.
wahhhhh!!!
Thor is horrible to karl, Dan, and you defended him.
Wait. I take that back. I’m not getting involved in all of this.
Drink an extra brew for me, JD and alpuccino!
No such thing as an extra brew, Spies…
DFSPFD?
Since I no longer drink, I will hoist a mental JaegerBomb for y’all.
We will try to send some pix. Personally, if alppuccino is 1/1000th as funny in real life as he is on here, my golf game will suffer.
thor is PW’s very own Neal Cassady kind of. Those ones are hard to find, so you could say we got lucky I think.
And that is the entire point!
It is wrong, no matter who does it, where, or when. Denouncing such behavior should not descend – amongst decent people – to a game of ‘but this guy said it too!’.
Stop. It is just wrong, and it is bad behavior that all civilized people ought to condemn when they see it based only on one thing: It is wrong. It should not be connected to any other comment, any other post. It stands alone by itself as wrong.
It stands alone by itself as wrong. is a statement of an objective code, a code that is divorced from me and my cares and my desires. It is conscience; it is part of being a civilized human, bigger than being the member of a tribe, or a party, or any other group.
That call to condemn something as being wrong, no matter who says it and his allegiances; no matter whom it is said to and his allegiances is the core of being a civilized human with acknowledgment of that commonality. Do not over-analyze it,do not rationalize it,do not excuse it. Just declare ‘this is wrong’.
We all are better for that, we are safer for having that governor on our selves.
Okay, my rant is over (until I read more comments).
DriveFSPFDough. Never play without a bet on the game.
Why do these deranged moonbats (Crazy Deb and The Furvert) target Jeff’s kid? Maybe Psycho could explain what has gone wrong with them mentally. Crazy Deb made the more explicit threats but in a way the Furvert’s comment was even creepier, because it didn’t come out of the context of a heated argument. It just came out of the blue. This urge to target a child has to be associated with some kind of profound mental illness that should require committment to a locked ward.
Amen, Aldo.
thor is PW’s very own Neal Cassady kind of
More like our Holden Caulfield.
Ok get this. Today someone called me a sycophant. As if, right? Fanboy I would accept. I am very fanboy about a lot of things. Jeff and this blog is one, but there’s lots of other stuff. That’s way different from sycophant. Jeez. Can’t a guy show a little enthusiasm anymores?
As to your charge that I think everything is about me, let me offer some advice to anyone who, like Jeff, wants only to be left alone in
the pursuit of screedy diatribes.
Stop posting to the salacious and outrageous. Be a little more like Patterico. He rarely pushes rhetoric to an absurd, but entertaining cul-de-sac of raison d’etre, and he consequently enjoys modest traffic.
Of course, he has a day job (County prosecutor) and seems to eschew
the ad revenue.
You don’t hear me complaining about the trollops who delight in stomping my typos, or pretending to be confused about my ‘intentionalism’, do you?
I would, of course have to say I do more for your traffic than the
Phalanx of cheerleaders who stumble over each other to be the first to declare, ‘well done’and then toast each other with some Rheingold and generic cheetos.
I will close with my usual narcissism by pasting the advice you offer to Lefties whom you’ve decided ‘need’ Goldstein:
“I can’t think of a better way of making sure someone doesn’t leave.” Can you?”
We’re all sick of it, hf.
Sdferr – My strengths, if any, are within spitting distance of the green. The flat stick is my friend, but have been experimenting with a new Bettinardi, which has screwed up the tempo with my old Newport 2.
hf – sycophant, you are not.
Racist, perhaps. But no sycophant.
Have you and alppu never actually met before, JD? Oh….I do want pictures. And there’d better be lingerie involved.
I wish you all could join me an alppuccino on the golf course tomorrow.
Podcast. Youtube. We have the technology.
HP, I thought we were minions? Fanboy kinda has a stalkerish quality that might make JG uncomfortable.
The hilarious thing ‘feets is they ridicule you for being a fan, while they obsess over Jeff totally negatively. Which is creepier, and more unhealthy?
More like our Holden Caulfield.
I was thinking David Cassidy, myself.
Myrmidons, Carin. Temporarily without our Achilles. But the sack is gonna be fun.
Besides, I think the following definition certainly fits commenters at other blogs much better than it does here.
sycophant: yes-man, bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer, flunky, lackey, spaniel, doormat, stooge, cringer,suck, suck-up.
I don’t know why the SteveM Random House representative didn’t just apologize? Say “I’m sorry, it was a stupid thing to wish/write”
The deranged, the monstrous, the weirdly crazy are thanks god, rare. While they stir up trouble for Jeff and everyone else, they are not the targets of Jeff’s main efforts and his appeal. The left and its catechism is a different thing altogether.
Who called you a sycophant hf? At work? Or on the innertubes? Fig revealer.
As has been said before, they target Jeff with their hate because he’s supposed to be one of them.
MayBee – Nope, never met. Unless al plans on wearing lingerie to the course, we will have to hire out for that. Not a bad idea. thanks!
BMoe – I am technologically illiterate. I will send pics to Dan.
I pick on KK, occasionally, no question. You think I chose Karl at random? I disagree not only with his opinions but with his motives as well, and yes, I do not like what I believe motivates Karl. Another reason I pick on Kark is that I believe one should be able to take what they dish out. Other than that I have nothing against KK, he’s welcome to come over to my place, call me, bum a beer, whatever. If I’m annoying to KK, I think we’ve established the mutuality.
If you don’t like me, or even if you downright hate me and everything I stand for, OK. I think I’ll survive that.
So that’s that, as Jeff would say.
I didn’t know you could get caddies in lingerie. Call Cad’s Caddies!
I’m confused. Is “The id of O!” also “Thor”?
#40 –
OK, but you’re at least aware that part of what motivates you is a perception that you have, not necessarily something proven to be so?
My teddy tends to ride up on my backswing. I’ll go with the garters.
Strippers on the golf course has been done before.
That would be a ‘yes’, TS9. Karl digs into his obsession, so Karl gets his attention.
Yeah, somebody’s fucking with him, I think, by changing the name on his comments. Personally, I would have gone with “O’s Scrotum” instead, but then sometimes I prefer to eschew subtlety. Besides, he’s mostly just silly more than anything else.
Spies – I have attended one of those kinds of outings before. Better Half might draw the line a little bit on this side of hiring strippers to caddy for us, but it cannot hurt to ask.
Besides, he’s mostly just silly more than anything else.
Yes. But now he’s made an enemy of MayBee. I’d sooner step into the octagon with Michelle O after she finds out that Barry has a picture of Scarlett’s boobs on his Blackberry.
“Yeah, somebody’s fucking with him, I think, by changing the name on his comments.”
Check with the pre-adolescent JD. He pulls that shit all the time
If you were at all familiar with Steve M or his work, you would know how ridiculous your suspicions are. I can think of lefty bloggers who would say something that obnoxious (I can also think of a lot of right-wing bloggers who would do the same), but Steve sure as hell isn’t one of them. (And if he works in the same very large company as the culprit, well, so what?) This is just another stupid, baseless smear.
Fuck off, MissKKKleo. And get that PRE traumatic stress disorder looked at.
#47:Jim
Pehaps if I stalk you around the site every time you show up, seriously insinuating that you are a closet racist, you might see it differently.
#
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/30 @ 6:17 pm #
“Yeah, somebody’s fucking with him, I think, by changing the name on his comments.â€Â
Check with the pre-adolescent JD. He pulls that shit all the time
Good one JD!
This is just another stupid, baseless smear.
Is it though?
But that wouldn’t be Christian, al. Or Jewish, come to think of it.
Semen, I think you’re right. JD is actually Papa Smurf wearing a Snidely Whiplash mask. Soon the Scooby Gang will figure out his devious plot and rip off the mask.
Then everyone will sit down to a nice bowl of Fruity Pebbles before going out to ride bikes and play with action figures.
It is just a great big coincidence, right Tom?
And while we’re at it, let’s recall who wrote a racist comment at this site.
Ah, but you’re clearly not, Karl, which is why I find his act silly.
I know I’m all ears.
QED: the accusation is admitted to be true.
This of course depends on the special leftoid definition of “smear”: an inconvenient and/or uncomplimentary fact about a leftist. “John Kerry never went to Cambodia”, e.g.
Regards,
Ric
This is just another stupid, baseless smear.
or pleonasm
Do you really want to run the zoo, Tom?
Well, the basis was certainly there, if only circumstantially: no one else who has ever commented here but Steve M has used that particular IP address.
I’m willing to believe that Steve M is not behind the comment. But I am not willing to believe he doesn’t, then, know who is, or that he can’t find out — particularly after today.
So thank you, Tom, for making up my mind for me. I’ll begin getting in touch with Random House H/R and IT tomorrow and get to the bottom of this as best I can.
Thanks, al. Cannot claim that one. Impossible to cue up that kind of teh krazy.
I see SteveM is a co-blogger at the Zoo.
If you were at all familiar with Cap’n C or his work you would know that he will stay crunchy in milk even while some of those other cereals would be soggy. So just because he’s corn-based, he’s gonna be mushy right?
Smear.
Tom is using the Leftist dictionary where baseless smear means consistent with the known facts. I need to get me one of those dictionaries.
It’s not true what they say about Carlisle.
Yes. If there’s a risk here, however small, that someone stands falsely accused, I think it would be remiss not to establish the factual record. It’s too late to change events. It’s time to face the consequence for delivering the proof in the policy of truth I think.
Agreed, hf.
Reach out, touch me…
So help me out folks. Since it turns out talking about the motives for abusing a dead man’s honor isn’t any different than abusing a dead man’s honor, is abusing one of the best minds and writers in the blogosphere right out of the blogosphere (call me a sycophant, for which I denounce my staid, backwards, uneducated, unprogressive self as well) no different than honest debate?
I mean, shit is so art, so…
Well, I guess Jeff has been pissing off the peeps at Random House for a long while now. And I guess they have loose computer time rules there.
That is not the Semenleo/tbagg/stevem/furryfreakydude that I knew. It is getting pretty crowded under the back of the bus.
JHoward – just talking about it is as bad, if not worse, than the actual bad action that was the genesis of this. I know this to be true, because SEK once told us so.
Please tell me that the comment at #75 is not the bad doc dropping in… that is her id on Craig’s List… does that IP resolve back to Oregon?
even though Jeff likes the J.Goldberg’s pre-selected factoidal lies, I still fully support him against nasty personal attacks from the far-lefties .
One thing everybody should agree, regardless of their political views, this blog is/was always tolerant to different views’ expressions- no banning, and with some rare occasional exceptions-the general civilized discussions….
#75, she cool
#53 Karl:
That accusation is one social crime that is still “on the books” and you are well forgiven for reacting strongly to any accusation of it.
Totally serious on this comment, I am.
Turning the other cheek — for when it’s not time to really abuse somebody — should be official policy, JD.
In fact, maybe someOne is already working on it. Snobby European nations will simply adore us.
I’m more of a classist than a racist.. Can I still hang out here?
As long as you don’t actually mention it, Ouroboros.
But if you must, really go for it.
Apparently links in comments are a no-go.
#70 Dan:
Carlisle has an honorable history.
(here would be a link to HMS Carlisle)
#73 Jim:
It’s “Reach out, touch faith”
(here would be a link to a YouTube video of Depche Mode’s “Personal Jesus” with Obama imagery)
This is of high moment I think. You should click.
Thanks, haps. I did click.
I can speculate, but I won’t. I just hope that before this party ends the host will permit the exchanging of cards.
Then the lights may go out and the red carpet rolled up, and a little shell-back works his way down the street with dancing shoes slung over his back.
I really hate fucking griefers.
I’ll become one of those workout freak people. I just can’t think of anything else to do until this job plays out, and that’s at least spring.
Lovely. I guess the flip side of finally making lunacy an overt, collective pursuit is crap like that. Because there are so many voices of reason and all.
I dislike these asshats, on so many levels, that it is difficult to express. Their utter lack of class, basic decency, humanity, and any semblence of tact should be painful. Unfortunately, all they know how to do is project their pain to others. Fuckers.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/30 @ 6:17 pm #
Do you speak English?
I’ve always thought it’s all just a Wittgensteinian wordgame as far as thor’s concerned. It’s his idea of (meaningless) fun. He doesn’t really give two shits about it, I think, except to whatever extent he has actually developed a personal dislike of Karl, reasons unknown. Which is selfish in the extreme if true.
Since it is not Karl’s idea of fun at all and thor clearly understands that. Karl does a ton of work and then as he puts it, “gets chased around the site by thor seriously insinuating that he is a closet racist”. Of course I don’t think Karl is a racist at all. That is absurd on its face. So I can see why he feels that way and can’t blame him for wanting to be done with the problem, one way or the other. If it comes to that I’ll be thanking thor for his useless hobby.
Wow. That’s just sad. You’re attacking a figment of your imagination, rather than address the substance of Karl’s comments. Which explains why you even attack over benign or neutral posts; you’re attacking something created entirely in your own mind.
How do you know they’re lies if you’ve never examined the evidence? Grow up, be a man, and either STFU about “Liberal Fascism” or read the book.
O’K , Rob,
pre-selected factoids.
Like it better now ?
You neither STFU nor read the book. Grow up, or at least admit you don’t have the intellectual honesty (or power?) to confront Goldberg’s argument.
Rob, if you had one, you would admit that we already had been through this and me personally and others linked authors debunked the presumptuous clown Goldberg ,who is obviously your idol, for historical ignorance, selective picking of certain historical events fitting his theory and selectively ignoring the ones which do not fit.
In other words fraud.
You like him?
Fine with me. I do not give a shit for your intellectual midgetism.
But do not expect me to read “Mein Kampf” either to know what crap is inside, stench from that shit is too penetrating…
Whoa, I haven’t tarred KK for that in awhile. Share it less maybe, but I won’t back down from my opinion. And it is fun, or should be, to splatter each other.
Lighten’ up with the so hard done by.
And if Jeff does shut down pw shortly, this is why: thor, the delusional jackass. Congratulate him.
Thanks, thor! Asshole.
sashal, Goldberg = Hitler, huh? Go soak your head.
I won’t back down from my opinion. And it is fun, or should be, to splatter each other.
Saying fuck you a hundred different ways isn’t an opinion, thor. That you think it is fun and entertaining says a lot about your intellect, it seems to me. All you have proven is you are a better greifer than Nishfong. Helluva fucking achievement, there, sport.
Pablo, really ? Is that what you are thinking?
Nah, Jonah is too damn fucking stupid to be in the same league of assholes….
All he is good for – to get money from the intellectual weaklings constituting the large part of the GOP voting public.
My faith is restored. Because in an age where haranguing free radio off the air, so to speak, and in the name of all that is constitutional and sacred — referring to the tolerance, free speech, and sheer, self-supporting power of all other left-leaning thought — character counts, right? Check.
What’s the problem sashal? Smiley face w/hitler mustache too scary for you?
What’s the problem sashal? Smiley face w/hitler mustache too scary for you?
Nobody likes to have their base assumptions questioned. I mean, imagine finding out that you’re the figment of someone’s imagination. LF robs Lefties of their favorite slur. I guess sash doesn’t have the courage to let it go.
What Jeff has said about disagreeing passionately stands, namely, that there’s nothing wrong with lively discourse.
When someone tells me to jump on Obama’s lap and spin while expecting I that won’t return the rhetorical flavor seems to upset some here. I took you for quick learners, ha! My bad.
I’ve been quick to defend the Iraq war, Michael Vick, Mormons out at the “rape ranch,” Barack Obama, John McCain, while attacking Brett Favre, Hillary Clinton, Ronald Reagan, two-party politics and most anything Islamic, etc…
I’m not changing my opinions to win tribe points and I don’t recall ever firing the first “fuck off” salvo at anyone.
Maybe I should leave. I wouldn’t want you to keep soiling your playpen. Or maybe Jeff’s tired of trading opinions on politics and being dogged by dopey Feminist/Extremist tards who have nothing to do with me.
I enjoy his comedy and Lit Theory bits most.
For making me smile and/or think, thanks Jeff.
Peace! O!
Who are these people, David Brown and Deb Fr*** and how do they represent “the left” or even the “hateful left”. As a card carrying member of The Left, can you please enlighten me as to who these sterling representatives of all my views are (so that I can denounce them and muse about how they are not The Left that I once knew).
I know Deb is an excellent representation of the “Crazy Left” ie. Ward Churchill. Did someone say she represents all people on the left?
that’s right, dicentra, the greatest philosopher and historian of our times , Goldberg, proved it to me.
God, the tunnel vision of neoconservative Bolsheviks.
Everyday I see more examples that North Koreanism and ability to recite Mao greatest thoughts by heart does not have national or geographical limitations. The Stalinism of modern conservative movement is truly astounding up to even using the same quotes, agendas , tactics etc…
Do you know that if you’ll read Marx, you will be able to connect the whole thing to Hegel, Burke, Russo, Wagner, Ivanoff, Aristotle, Socrates, Julius Caesar, horse race in KY in 1928, the greatest drought in Ethiopia in 1949, the greatest sun eclipse of the 14th century , the ax , which killed Trotsky and the breakfast Rob Crawford had in the local diner on the eve of the Rio carnival in 1996…
Yep, Jonah, really questioned my ” base assumptions” about liberalism and fascism. He really, really did.
You’re very invested in your leftness I think Lisa.
Yeah, sashal, I’m sure you reviewed the material with an unjaundiced eye and have a rational rebuttal for each and every point…
Or, more likely, you’re just sitting here with the same playground mind-set that leads to such brilliant rejoinders as “so’s your mother” and “nuh-uh.”
Lisa – You are most certainly not in the same category as those people.
well, i am sure you did, Dread.
Did you collect all the reference tools and encyclopedia material while reading/researching, or just mindlessly read through?
Somehow I am 100% positive it was the second option…
Who is Deb? I am picturing some creepy Andrea Dworkin-ish freak from the Perfesser’s teachin’ days.
Nevermind, I just googled the whole sordid affair. WOW!! That is one crizz-azy bitch. And you are telling me that she is still teaching somewhere? You are kidding me right?
As I said, sugartits, nobody sane would ever have you and them in the same group. Plus, she had saggy tits.
LOL, JD. Yes, in the immortal words of Sug Avery (from The Color Purple): She sho’ is ugly.
She fell out of the ugly tree, and hit every damn branch on the way down.
LMAO!!!
She’s so ugly, when she was born, the doctor slapped her mom.
Hard
The person in question is not teaching at this time as far as I know. Her teh crazee inspired a hoard of internet guardians to ensure a wide dissemination of her most vile acts.
She’s been very quiet lately which, hopefully, suggests she may be getting the psychological help she so deperately needs.
If Dr. Deb is teh crazee, what is lambcannon(the furvert)? Maybe he makes his outfits out of dirty diapers. Sorta like killing two birds(doesn’t seem like he’s into feathers though)…
EEEEWWWWWWWWWWWW
LMAO JD. Did he slap her like a pimp in a room full of lazy whores?
(denounces self)
Sashal,
I hate to break it to you, but simply claiming that you know of other people out there who have “debunked” Goldberg’s book is not the same as actually offering any intellectual argument debunking Goldberg’s book.
I know I got into this with you awhile ago, and I have seen others do the same. I have yet to see you post a single comment that actually, you know, disputes anything in Goldberg’s book with any facts or analysis.
Your childish name-calling is not persuasive argument. You disagree with Goldberg’s argument – I get that. However, your disagreement is not, in and of itself either a) persuasive or b) a “debunking”.
I have, with interest, read some of the alleged debunking of Goldberg’s book out there. So far, I have seen a lot of straw-men being debunked, but fail to see any actual debunking of the facts presented.
I guess I’m curious. Goldberg puts forth 2 distinct arguments in his book:
1) Facsism is a creature of the left (this argument upsets the left b/c it means that when all of the horrors attributable to leftist ideiology are presented [Mao, Stalin, Castro, Che, etc.,] they can’t come back and lay fascism at the right’s feet) and
2) the American left’s (progressivism) political philosophy was born out of fascist political thinking. (This is the argument that seems to get the left so riled up – b/c they think he is arguing that american leftists today are the equivalent of Nazis and/or were responsible for the holocaust. Neither of which is true.)
Which do you dispute? Do you claim that the National Socialists of Germany were not socialists? If they were socialists, how were they not leftists? the historical evidence seems pretty clear that Nazis were leftists. Certainly, there is nothing in the facsist writings or laws to demonstrate they were of the right as the left continues to try and claim.
If you are disputing the other argument, I would agree that it is not as strong of an argument. However, it is impossible to claim that the american left did not like and support Hitler right up until he invaded Russia (at which point they had to chose between 2 leftist nations they liked). Saying that the american left supported Hitler is not the same thing as saying they supported the Holocaust though – I don’t think anyone argues that, and Goldberg certainly does not in his book.
However, not all progressive thought came straight from fasist thought, and I agree that Goldberg overreaches a little in this argument. Some progressive ideas do flow quite clearly from fascist thinking, others are harder to connect up, or simply don’t.
but, this claim you make that the book is way off, and completely unsupported is simply not factual. And to claim that this historical analysis picks and choses is daft. Show me any book discussing history that manages to incorporate everything that ever happened into the book. If you have some major historical instance that you believe controverts the book, please cite it. I have yet to see you – or any other person – do so.
Indeed, I see routinely people like you claiming that his book was “debunked” but never see the actual debunking. I have seen sites linked to wherein Goldberg is called a lot of names, etc., but have seen none that actually address his arguments and the facts he presents in his book.
And, please remember that today fascist is a perjorative, at the time it was simply a kind of progressive political philosophy. So, talking about “fascist thought” gets people riled up. But, remember that the fascists had a whole bunch of ideas, philosophy, and policies before the holocaust, which is what we are talking about. Many of those ideas and thoughts were – at the time – also being pursued quite vigorously by the american left, and indeed, form the basis for much of the left’s thinking today.
that does not make the left “evil” and that is not what the argument is. Put another way, say that Fascist Germany had developed a really great pension system for all the citizens of germany. Just b/c the fascists turned out to be pretty evil does not make that pension system evil. Now, I may disagree with the merits of that pension system and think that it should not be put into place in America, but the fact that the idea came from fascists in the first instance does not make the pension policy evil. that is where I think leftists get caught up. They think Goldberg is calling them evil b/c he is talking about where certain ideas had their origin. thus, leftists get defensive and emotional and refuse to address the arguments and facts presented in the book.
“…They think Goldberg is calling them evil…” because that is precisely what they meant by calling conservatives “fascist” lo these many decades, so, of course, “THEY KNOW WHEREOF THEY SPEAK”!
GB:
Nor would I offer this conclusion. However it is known that Eugenics was primarily a progressive concept, supported enthusiastically by progressives of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s (California did more sterilizations of the mentally ill than any other state.) The Nazi’s application of Eugenics in their extreme, casual form could be presented as a “evolution” of the concept, primed by Ayran pure race dreams, Germanic Nordic paganism and blood rites. The Occult was another mutating factor.
The Nazis own the Holocaust all by themselves but progressives bear “the original sin” (if I may borrow from Obama) of promoting selective sterilization as a way ensure stronger, smarter generations to come.
GB, if you are really serious and have time and will, please do read this (and multiple links in that article for thorough comprehensive debunking done better then anybody):
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/01/liberal-fascism-response.html
Weak tea, sashal, very weak.
As I understand it, fascism and communism, and all the rest are branches off of Marx’s tree. The idea of pulling all power bases in society into the control of government – or supplanting them with something new beholden to government – is something Marx advocated before the state would ‘wither away’ (though how that act of magic was to occur I’ve never seen explained).
Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism are necessary if great changes done quickly are to be imposed on a society. For this I cite common sense. It is not surprising to me that someone who wants to enact a sweeping change to society would want great power and authority, and would identify with others who advocate the same, no matter their reasons. It is also not surprising that they may have some goals in common. Again, I cite common sense, and also the cold record of history.
The message I understand is very simple – beware those who want to have great power to enact sweeping change ______________ for the good of _________________ (fill in the blanks) because they may have or be associated with others whose real motives aren’t so pure.
YMMV.
Mikey, very good last post. I agree that without force to implement the sweeping changes, especially when big swaths of population will be affected negatively by it is virtually impossible, hence authoritarianism and/or dictatorships accompanied all the regimes trying itself in socialism or nationalism.
I also like simple but true your phrase:
“beware those who want to have great power to enact sweeping change ______________ for the good of _________________”
That’s why I can not stand Bolsheviks/communists and neoconservastives…
Is sashal still yammering about this? Embrace your fascist roots sashal.
So when are we getting a report on the golf match?
alpuccino beat me, but I had the only birdie on 18. He is every bit as funny in person as he is on here.
He is every bit as funny in person as he is on here.
That would definitely be an unfair advantage on the course, then.
WTG, sashal, you’re a one-man neo-goon beat-down-bot. Keep it up.
Marx wasn’t a tree. Marx never killed anyone, neither did he command an army. Understand that.
That, and he hits the ball about 30 yards longer than me. That does not hurt. But, I can putt. Well. Al, not so much.
Marx wasn’t a tree.
But if he wuw a twee, what kind of twee would he be?
Marx never killed anyone…
Well, except for a couple of hoboes I rolled in Soho.
Hey, it was hard times, man!
“…Marx never killed anyone, neither did he command an army. …”
Thanks gott for small favors.
Holed out from a bunker on 18, eh? Good on ya, mann.
Putt count 36+/-? Best drive of the day, hole #? Al’s best, same? Best shot from the planning and execution standpoint?
Marx sung an awful lot of lovely ballads. Cant’ you just lay off the guy.
Hey, Thor.
You crack me up!!! #
Comment by MayBee on 7/30 @ 5:16 pm #
Thor is horrible to karl, Dan, and you defended him.
sashal, funny how conservatives want to eliminate NPR and force all Americans to listen to Rush Limbaugh all the time due to it’s ‘commercial nature’.
Or Classic Rock!
Is that Freedom of choice or what?
I like reading the thin skinners here. Sadly, Karl seems to be quite Marxist about thor’s bemused responses. Tell me that’s not Karl up there? thinskinned, eh?
anyway, Thomas Franks’s needs to be on the reading list. Franks is far more cogent than Goldberg’s moronic fiction. But then he doesn’t go far enough as this Ellen Willis, who has a more expansive critique of the American right and their cultural war against freedom in general.
Alas, the once Brautigan emulator, who I deem JG to be, has turned to the likes of the National Review in reaction to his past hedonist ways. Alas, joining the ranks of the Huns like David Mamet will not make one a great writer. Suffering might help. Martial arts if practiced with diligence and humility might have helped ol’ Richard (not Marx) and hopefully will enrich JG’s writing…perhaps? Again, with humility and diligence.
It is said he left a suicide note which read “Messy, isn’t it?”
Brautigan once wrote, “All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds.”