So. Am I to get rich penning content for you peopleses? Doubtful, but who knows? Others have certainly made a living writing for an internet audience.
The bastards.
Anyway, please do me a favor and click on the icon below to take a (very very very) short survey (something like 5 questions, I think) dealing specifically with user-end web-based content acquisition.
And while you’re taking the survey, just for the sake of argument pretend that some of what you might be getting in this brave new world of internet elitism is special stuff from me — including ingenious video and audio crap that I just can’t bring myself let you have for free.
Not that I’d do that to you, mind.
Once you’re done, see Lileks for a bit more of an explanation. Or at least some context.
Or, you know, don’t. It’s Friday, after all, and in a perfect world, Friday’s should be spent relaxing and getting your weekend drink on — not stuck in your walk-in closet trying to peel an ecstasy-ravaged armadillo off a pair of black nylon workout pants he keeps assuring you is a willing and amorous Pam Grier.
I guess we can’t chat about it without prejudicing people what haven’t taken the survey.
So.
James Lileks seems like a nice man. I bought my mom his book for Christmas. She said she thought it was funny. Maybe if you write a book I could give that for Christmas next year. Probably not to my mom though, but maybe. If it was a heartwarming tale or something.
Ok, I did it. Because you asked. I’d comment nekkid if you asked.
Joking.
sorta.
I like Lileks too, and give my bil his books a few years back.
I, unlike Happy, could ALSO give my bil a book Jeff wrote. So, you know, you’ve got a customer base.
This year cause nishi said to I gave some monies to Jerry Pournelle for a basic membership. It was like $25. I’ve never been. I hate to be such a brat, but I don’t find the way he makes no effort at organization or presentation there to be very charming, even though I know it’s great content that it would a lot behoove me to read. For real I think his fans should make meta pages and help the guy out. This sort of thing is supposed to happen spontaneously, on the Internet.
I’m all for Jeff getting paid for his intertubes contribution, but I’m hoping that somehow it takes a little while to mature, so that hubby and I can dig out of our hole before Jeff makes me pay to read his stuff.
I’m happy to sponsor special projects, like covering the Denver convention.
I pay for National Review, but they’ve got a double whammy: actual paid-for paper/electronic magazine, plus loads o’ advertiser-paid content. Actually, they have a triple whammy (based on the survey) – the magazine is a lot less than $275 per year.
I’d almost pay for a “McSweeney’s Internet Tendency”, but it’s been done.
?How about an Evan Coyne Mahoney approach? Get sponsorship for special projects, give the sponsors early and complete access – just to view, no comments taken – and then sell the final product on the open market.
I’m totally blown away by your creativity. I’m perfectly happy to contribute to sponsor projects. I hope you make a million.
Second Carin’s sentiment.
One thing: the last question. Sorry, guys. It’s still gonna be a computer screen and keyboard.
Regards,
Ric
With weak writing like the above (Karl just linked Buckley so the standard is even above Krauthammer or Steyn), you will certainly not get rich. You simply can’t with your current readership, which is germane to the question you pose, via your own construct.
Or am I wrong? Does “you peopleses” represent a potential amount of readers (read: subscribers) more than just the couple hundred thousand that will (potentially) read them?
Therin, I think (much like Carl Spackler, as it were) lies your genius: I would never think to ask any other person that question.
I wouldn’t know that there were answers to questions like that without PW.
Thanks Jeff.
Just so we’re clear here, I would never ever abandon the free stuff. pw would never go pay-per-read, nor would it disappear. Were I hypothetically to be involved in some other, hypothetical pay site.
Instead, I’d write longer, creative-non fiction essays for that other site, separate and distinct from the stuff I like to do here. Or maybe I’d do video stuff with higher production values. Or maybe even serialize a novel or some such.
Hypothetically.
Were I ever invited to be involved, I mean.
I like the serialized novel. I would definitely pay for that.
What is the weak writing to which you refer, EasyLiving?
Oh. And “peopleses” was on purpose. In case anybody was wondering.
A sense of humor is a bad thing to lose.
Would you do nekkid podcasts? My cat wants to know.
Rarw …
Bad writing thing. I need answers.
How about another thread, so we can comment on the idea without prejudicing the survey?
I wasn’t wondering. But, then, I’m a cat. meow.
Actually, it’s “rawrrrr”.
(I just caught the “Cougar” bit on the next day edition of “The Daily Show”.)
Sure. After I eat dinner — and after I get an answer to the bad writing thing EasyLiving1 introduced into the discussion.
Does that make you a GUI consultant, too, Jeff?
I like the idea, and I like Lileks for what he does, but the “not intentionally offensive” thing kind of puts me off a bit. As long as he doesn’t get too Paul Harvey/ Reader’s Digesty I would definitely give it a look.
No, Patrick. My cat has a very clipped rawr. It’s weird.
Well there you go: you need a “Cougar” in your life.
Or some such.
I answered that, Jeff. I wasn’t wondering. Of course, I frequently use the word “prolly” so perhaps you don’t want to accept my judgement.
I used to have a cat (died of natural causes a couple of decades ago) who, I swear, when he was curious about what I was going (crossword puzzle, reading, watching TV while sucking down a G&T, etc.) would look at me, tilt his head, and say “Gow?”
My father’s last words were “Never give money to a default-gradient homunculus with a colored dropshadow — or that Lileks fuck.”
But other than that.
Sorry for being slow to respond.
I thought I addressed what, surely in igorance, I thought was bad writing on your part for contemplating (spelling be damned I’m a rush) making a living off of ONLY current PW readers.
That’s aiming for about .001 % of your potential audience, and I don’t think that’s a good way to get rich.
I would pay for that, if it weren’t more than $20 per month.
I’d rather there were some deliberately offensive content, though.
#7 – But it will render yours the swankiest screen in the neighborhood. Think of it as a sunk-in living room on the intarweb.
I’d pay, but I suspect any outfit would be hard pressed to assemble a group I’d be willing to pay $275.00 annually to peruse. Given what I pay for cable though, and what little I actually receive, it’s not an impossible order.
Also, the notion that the reading room of any private club isn’t positively swimming in ideology is kinda cute. Exclusivity holds no interest for me. You are more apt to get my money from content that would be widely appreciated; that is, widely in the NPR/PBS or History Channel meaning of the word.
This has got to be a joke. I don’t mind being made a fool of, but I don’t understand why Jeff would attach himself, in whatever manner, to the idiocy contained within the phone penitence writing.
Really, has anyone read that?
The moral: if someone breaks into your home and causes intense emotional pain, blame yourself if you don’t FEEL anything but sympathy for the potential murderer that invades your home.
Here’s all I know. That this site is aiming to publish a bunch of free-lance guys. Lileks, evidently, is somebody they’re interested in. And Gerard.
I’m wary of all this stuff, to be honest, because I heard a similar pitch from PJM. And I’m not even aware that they bother to link to me regularly anymore.
So go ahead and use this thread to discuss all the topics the survey raises. People who read here aren’t ones to be prejudiced by other people’s opinions.
Oh. And full disclosure: I didn’t read any of the samples. I clicked on the van der leun thing and was mesmerized. In the way I sometimes get mesmerized by my own screen saver.
That’s ALL you know?
Shit.
Yeah, the offensive content is a big part of why I hang out here.
I think the proposed price is well beyond what most people will pay, no matter how much content there is and how good it is.
By comparison:
New Yorker: weekly, $40/year
National Geographic: monthly, $15/year
Wall Street Journal: $89/year (print or web) $99/year (both)
Playboy: monthly, $15-20/year
Time: weekly, $20/year
(chosen for overall amount of content and production values, not necessarily quality of content)
It would partly depend on how much content was being posted per day (which they don’t mention in the survey, I don’t think… they won’t let me go back and look at it again), but, you know, any such venture is going to have to compete against an awful lot of free, high-quality content that’s already out there.
I read the phone bit. Ugh. That’s why I tacked immediately towards NR.
I just can’t think of much information I’d pay for: there’s so much out there that’s already ad-sponsored.
On the other hand, I have sponsored, and paid for individual-generated content.
As for the “peopleses” bit, well, the anything less than face-to-face is a lossy communications channel, with all that implies.
What you need is representation I think is all. PJM has confuzzled me too, by the way. They don’t seem very open to feedback though, so I gave up on trying to be helpful.
I didn’t make it to the end of the phone thingie. The Three Lefts Make a Right one was cute, but not really something I’d pay to read.
Rush Limbaugh famously (in my mind, but perhaps only there) got involved in web-based content only after it was proven to be a (probable) profitable enterprise.
There’s the model.
I pay about $50 a year to be a Rush 24/7 subscriber.
It’s the same song spinning fellas, and the same song has always been true.
Hat tip to Kid Rock.
Easyliving … have you ever stolen a phone? You can admit it. You’re among friends.
Easy
I read it, and I would be willing to give it a chance because, in many ways it reminds me of my favorite magazine as a kid
Saturday Evening Post
Sometimes you want to be informed, entertained, mildly amused, provoked to thought …and all on subjects OTHER than blatant ideology or politics.
As much as I personally enjoy politics, I like a holiday from it.
BTW, I bought the Lileks books too my a couple of Christmases ago for mom and sis. We laughed ourselves silly over them.
Spies, the thief GAVE THE PHONE back. Honestly, you missed a heartwarming moment. Now, I think Easyliving has something to tell us ..
I bought a Rush tie.
So Jeff, the whole clothing thing. You need a tag line, like: “I like to bowl but I sure as hell don’t roll on Shabbas!”
Spies, the thief GAVE THE PHONE back.
Ah.
I’d be more likely to read it if the phone had administered a lethal electric shock to the thief, or had started spewing poison gas, or something like that.
I own a couple of Lileks’ books, one of his tee shirts, and (I’m pretty sure) have hit his tip jar in the past.
Not to go OT, but I’m into my third glass of wine and don’t really care… but Kid Rock (a Detroit boy who Easylistening mentioned up there) is a very generous soul. A local guy lost a teenage son to a drunk driver, and his other son was wounded in Iraq and while ALL this was happening, the family lost their house. Richie gave gave a TON (anonymously, but the dad was so grateful he called the local station and told them) for the family to get a new house.
I was sorta hoping it was going to be Salon for Klingons. So I guess I’ll have to do the reading/survey thing.
I own a couple of Lileks’ books, one of his tee shirts, and (I’m pretty sure) have hit his tip jar in the past.
This, I think, is key. I give money to Lileks, and this site, and a (very) few others. It’s about choice. The pig-in-a-poke content model made sense in the days when printing costs were high and lead times were long. Nowadays, not so much.
Okay, so I did that and pretty much agree with Dan. Also, I personally prefer stuff from Jeff and Lileks over the stuff I read there, so maybe Jeff & Lileks could just get their own room together. BTW, I have linked to that video at my other gig, and have lots of offensive content.
I was told, incidentally, that I’d be allowed to work blue. Hypothetically. If I were to be involved, I mean.
Offered without comment:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/bolus/2008/06/ball-of-the–12.html
Or am I wrong? Does “you peopleses†represent a potential amount of readers (read: subscribers) more than just the couple hundred thousand that will (potentially) read them?
I am not very stingy and I like funny things and good things and Jeff and Lileks in particular.
But I would be a bit skeptical of a paysite that takes some of the competition out of the internet. Not that the blogosphere hasn’t become somewhat -coagulated- in the last couple years.
So maybe it’s just changing. Burnout happens and the odd looking conjoined phoenixes that have risen up here and there aren’t always to my taste.
I like production values, who doesn’t. But joke trumps skill every time.
I like a bit of raucus and raw, and more than that people linking and cribbing and so forth.
A nice private reading room could feel a little closed off. Whatever it is, it should have a ladies night of raucousness, or cat-blog friday or SOMETHING to put a little chaos in the mix.
People with the good jokes and stories get audiences. Road-tested guys making it pay without advertising isn’t bad or unfair, but I’d have to try it before I decided it was really worth it. I can find anything to read about anything on the internet. I like weird and unexpected and I like the cool kids one-upping each other.
Dear Easy,
I can’t help but think “Uh oh, fifteen minutes to Judge Wapner.” every time I read one of your posts.
Patrick
—
Plus you know people are going to steal your stuff and post it around and then here come the lawyers.
Darleen,
Interesting point.
I should not like to agree that I was not giving the article a chance, and indeed I would hope many people, including those I might or might not influence in any way, would read the article (hence ‘giving’ said article a “chance”).
That, it seems to me, is a seperate issue than the contents of the article.
To be more precise, the idea that an article, of whatever contents, should not be given a chance, is, to me, UnAmerican.
I’d love to know what you think.
But I’m not paying for Dr. Horrible. I’m just not.
What Darleen said.
Patrick,
I am much, much more the miserable failure than any caricature or ad-hominem attack you could ever lauch would describe.
Sure, that’s my life. But I do take solace in the fact that you aren’t capable of any insult that even approaches my reality.
Just to make that clear.
Yeah, SarahW, I didn’t see any mention of a comments section — what are the plans for that?
The maniac commenters here are definitely part of what keeps me coming back.
On the other hand, Lileks doesn’t have a comments section at all.
Patrick, thanks for the link to Iowahawk’s project. I was just thinking about him, in fact — his is a site that I read and enjoy, but not one that has enough new content to make me subscribe. I’ll have to keep an eye on it. I like Treacher, too.
Who the hell is Gerard?
Dear Easy,
Well done! You crop-dust “Teh Shame” so well.
Please, spare me.
Patrick
—
Also, for the record, I really LIKE advertising. If people didn’t tell me what to buy, I really wouldn’t know. There’s just so much stuff.
Jeff G.
Instead, I’d write longer, creative-non fiction essays for the other site. Or maybe do video stuff with higher production values. Or maybe even serialize a novel or some such.
I don’t reply much- but I readily agree with the vast majority here who say that your “unique” content and thoughts have attracted an equally “unique” audience whose interactions are a “value-added” complement to your work- which I fear will change in another dynamic.
My favorite “MM” (Megan McArdle at “Asymmetric Information”) was always guaranteed to be my first stop in “blog-land”- until the nature of her “commenters” changed with her move to “The Atlantic”… Now, it seems half of her posts are merely responses to the Fire Megan McArdle trolls that pollute her comment section.
pw would never go pay-per-read, nor would it disappear.
“If in the first act you have hung a fee on the wall, then in the following one it should be levied. Otherwise, don’t put it there”- The Russian dude on Star Trek
Dear Darleen,
I read Iowahawk and I think “Why bother?” He’s been there, and done that. But, as you say, updates are not regular. Still, I volunteer when he asks (infrequently) for help on special projects.
He did this one bit on Acme (here it is: http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/04/the_real_acme.html) tha still has the power to reduce me to hysterical laughter. He is brilliant.
Patrick
—
But for real though, if I haven’t picked me up an Oreck by now, I just don’t see it happening.
P-trick,
Although I wish to spare Jeff, you know the person who pays for this site that we can flirt on, I don’t wish to spare you.
I wish for you to understand, along with others, that the power of you to spare me is within you.
Yes, we can.
Plonk!
The maniac commenters here are definitely part of what keeps me coming back.
It says… and a daily gathering of interesting people with whom to interact. This sounds a lot like that salon conceptualization we talked about one day. But I can see maybe a problem with an I’m quitting if that one person isn’t banned type of thing being a for real possible problem. Once people pay money they get all sorts of entitlement issues.
And so it goes.
A person who quotes my favorite film, The Big Lebowski; I cannot, it appears, converse.
Yeah, I was never asked to contribute to bolus, either. Which means some people really must be exaggerating my skill level, influence, or capacity to bring teh funny.
I don’t really see you on Bolus. For me it has the feel of a blog for the heavy/fast-machinery enthusiast.
You’re more of a stiletto-in-the-ribs kind of writer, IMHO. Hence the McSweeney’s thought.
Jeff AND Lileks? What’s not to love. Jeff, if it is a good move for you (and only you know that), then my two cents says go for it. If it’s not like the last group you got tangled up with that didn’t understand your type of communication that is. But fuck them anyhow. BTW, my wife loved the podcast. She wanted more, though.
“She wanted more, though.”
It’s nice to be asked. I would imagine.
Oh, you’re good.
I don’t think it would take away from what I do here. In fact, it might actually get me interested in participating more. Thing is, I love all you guys, and I appreciate the readership this site has built up. But, frankly, it is difficult work — and when you’re watching what you consider lesser lights advancing while you get left behind, it can also become dispiriting.
Now, that’s my own demon to deal with, I understand. But at some point it becomes hard to convince yourself that you are the Crack the Sky of the blogverse.
Jeff, you should seriously make more podcasts.
It’s pretty easy to get them in the iTunes store, even. They don’t even give a shit if they contain advertising.
Oh. Also while we’re talking about models and such I’m going to reiterate something I said before and just throw it out there again. No one ever pimps the pub on PW proper. I think that’s too bad. It’s neat I think, and wants nurturing is all.
Here.
They don’t let you charge for ’em though. I guess you could put longer pieces on CD Baby, which would automatically get them in the iTunes store, among other venues.
No one ever pimps the pub on PW proper.
Yeah, I keep forgetting that it’s there.
It’d be nice to have a post/comments feed from the Pub on the main site.
You guys are free to link cool pub shit in the comments here, too, by the way. It might get it more noticed.
It’s not that I don’t care. It’s that I’m usually practicing to kill people.
I’m very protective of my family. So long as they don’t get all fucking whacko over some missing donuts.
Have you checked the pantry?
The iTunes store says it doesn’t allow profanity or some such in its podcasts.
So fuck that itchy twat of a cumlicking whore hole.
Hi Jeff,
Feel free to ignore the question, but have you ever asked the “lights advancing” what makes them advance?
I ask this because I was a complete failure in my field ’til I asked a person I trusted why I was such a failure. He said “Because you’re an asshole.” After that, I learned to be careful, not to not be an asshole, but to be careful about where and when I was an asshole.
Bottom line: timely advice asked for can be money in the pocket.
My $0.02
Patrick
—
I think that’s only for the reviews. One of the ones I have in iTunes right now has an “Explicit” tag on it.
But also, there’s a big big increase in interest in what you do. This is a time of great ferment. Ok whatever. But lots of people are revisiting first principles. I know it’s a lot of work but I think this is a time for sowing. Ok whatever.
No need. I know what makes them advance. On the left side, it’s having a certain pedigree and being a competent writer.
On the right, it’s getting the right people to notice you, and catering to a certain sensibility — and generally speaking, I’m a bit too far afield for the sensibilities that drive the right side bus.
I write like a lefty — at least, in the minds of many of the stalwarts on the right. I’m abstruse at times. I’m not easily categorized politically. And so, when all is said and done, I’m a man without a continent. But I OWN this fucking island!
Which, believe it or not, is most days quite enough for me.
Hell, man. If I won the lotto, or had some high rolling patrons, this site would be downright raucous.
Dear happyfeet,
Like you, I am currently three sheets to the wind. That said, I love your posts. I’m in Atlanta. Where are you?
Jeff: You could make a lot of money hooking up esoteric couples. Just sayin’.
Patrick
—
How strange!
It appears as though this blog might have to shit or get off the pot.
Patrons for real. That’s what Soros is doing on the left. It’s cause the right is a lot polluted by demands of intellectual purity. But did you see Drudge linked that Voinovich thing today? That’s a reminder not to cast anyone out I think. Ok yeah I’m as bad as anyone. But still.
I saw this at Lileks while surfing today. It’s not what I thought.
I like the way you write, if there was an ad for a “new story by Jeff!” I might sign up to see what I was missing. But the stuff they had on there, well… I’m sure there’s a market for it. But I’m not sure they can get $0.75 per day.
How is anyone going to link to it?
I still think you should write that airport book. You’d sell it to a million people who think the internet is the MSN start page.
Oh. I meant ideological.
Dear Jeff,
Point taken. I earn my living as a programmer, so my work is not judged in a political way. First the compiler has to accept it, then the (automated) unit tests, then the (automated) acceptance tests, and then the actual users. It’s all a process thing, no opinion involved. I am lucky.
I’m kind of surprised that there are not enough non-left, non-right fans to support you. Maybe it’s an advertising thing. But then, how do you advertise?
Jeez. The more I think about it, the more I wonder how you live. No insult intended, just a question in the back of my head.
The more I think of it, I keep thinking you need to set up a sort of sponsorship program. Maybe establish a thought-leadership thing to get people focused on how to make money as a blogger.
Patrick
—
The orange-bannery people had the right idea and then they flaked. I scoff at them, or I would, if they were relevant.
Ideally, Jeff is freed from PJM and forms not a salon so much as a saloon with Lileks and Burge, but that seems unlikely.
As for the Pub, thing, I keep thinking that I should do posts where I link to stuff from the Pub. But then I think that maybe I would risk slighting people. So maybe a feed in the sidebar would be good, if Jeff’s hot tech support could look into it. The alternative would to come up with admin permissions that would allow the guest bloggers to all contribute to “round-up” posts, which is actually not that easy to do in WordPress, afaik. And I sorta know, because I had reason to tlook into WordPress’s “roles” recently.
And this next bit is totally inside for Jeff: That tech issue I e-mailed you about has to do with how “roles” are assigned on WordPress. The easiest solution would be to change “roles,” but there are risks to that and would raise “fairness” issues not worth getting into.
Dear happyfeet,
I mark you six sheets to the wind. Congratulations, you are matching me.
Patrick
—
Also, I’ll jump on one of my hobbyhorses again briefly, which is that Wacky Jeff is more marketable than Academic Jeff, even though both have intellectual heft.
Fuck it.
I wanna take on Goldstein now.
Jeff, if you want to blame the success of other bloggers on anything besides the luck and fortune of opportunity meeting chance combined with preparation, then you should expound. You just BLAMED them all. That’s all on you.
Please understand that I do, in fact, see you as a possible legacy to the kind of argumenation sought, yes, indeed, SOUGHT, by Bill Buckley.
If you seek it, it shall come.
When you read “I should do posts where I link to stuff from the Pub” you really should realize that “the Pub” is so remote from the world as to be useless to you.
Dear Easy,
Please lay off the vodka.
Patrick
—
But then I think that maybe I would risk slighting people.
Well, shit. Here’s your ticket. If you think something is cool and should be linked, link it. I promise it won’t bother me that you never, ever pick me. Ever.
Ever.
I can totally sympathize with Jeff, and I have… doubts… about the new venture.
To begin with: I certainly don’t mind paying for my pleasures, but there are issues. Some of you know that I lost my job a year and a half ago. For the first year I did fairly well being self-unemployed, but recently things have dried up. (What I do isn’t relevant. Imagine me as the world’s second-best plaiter of buggy whips.) Anything that took Jeff behind a pay wall would essentially make him disappear from my point of view, just as I can’t read Bolus because I’m still on dialup and can’t afford the monthly, let alone the nut, for remote highspeed.
In general, the sort of thing I like on the Internet is slowly becoming unavailable to me, either going pay-per-view, getting laden with megabytes of images and scripts, or simply disappearing. When I see some proposal such as this, it’s doubly disappointing, as it means I lose another pleasure and that there’s no place there for me. Depressing.
Regards,
Ric
happyfeet Re: #59
“Who the hell is Gerard?”
I realize that your question may have been rhetorical, but if not then, here is Gerard.
Thank you. I really didn’t know.
Oh. Mr. Reynolds links him sometimes.
Happy,
Have you ever been to eject eject eject dot com?
Bill Whittle (sp?) is a talented individual.
Jeff Goldstein is a genius.
Yes. I’ve been there a few times. eject eject eject. I don’t like other blogs though. Except maybe Mr. Reynolds, and he’s more of a congenial filter, and Mr. Maguire sometimes, but I get a strong W25-54 vibe there. I liked Patterico for awhile but we live in the same town except he has a much better life and I got tired of reading about it.
Sorry to be the bitch that I am happy, and I could extrapolate but what’s the point, I am what I am, HOW could you possibly deride success?
You understand, Happy, that in our terms, failure and success are different.
Happy,
In the sense Hitler failed, you’re right.
But that doesn’t stop this thing Jeff has going.
The truth of the matter is, Hitler had success too.
Isn’t it axiomatic that all people are racist?
Do you know the definition of racist?
Do you know the other definitions of “racist?”
What does this mean?
Bill Whittle is indeed a very talented individual, yet he still isn’t fit to pour Jeff a dram of Lagavulin. Jeff is that damned good. Damn, I think I sound like a fucking Jeff Goldstein sycophant when I say stuff like that, but he is a voice that represents MANY, MANY, MANY fucking people that do not have his ability, articulation and wit. I am one of those people. I was never able to pinpoint my station on the political ideological map of life, until I found Protein Wisdom. This is it. I belong here, even if I don’t think I’m worthy. Jeff, you are my voice. You also turned me onto the single (other than my children and wife) biggest pleasure in my life. Single Malt Scotch. I have stayed away from the red pills behind the sofa. I thank you for that as well giving voice to my political and cultural self. Thank you, Jeff.
Huh? I don’t deride success. That sort of milieu is just sort of tiresome after awhile. There’s just a point where you get all immersed and then you remember you’re not that guy. You just have to play like it at work and when you’re out and stuff, you don’t have to internalize it. So no I don’t want to read about it when I could be reading Jeff and Dan and Karl and Darleen and Ric and SarahW and Ourobouros and psycho and Cookies and JD and the other ones. These are very grounded people and also they never make me listen about how fabulous it is to attend the symphony at the Disney Concert Hall after I already had lunch with someone who was yammering on about how fabulous it is to attend the symphony at the Disney Concert Hall.
but happyfeet, it’s the SYMPHONY! at the DISNEY CONCERT HALL!!!eleventy!
;D
have you seen that place? it’s all shiny and stuff.
okay, I never go see anything. it’s like some people and sports, I’d rather do than see.
Oh. Crap. and maggie and RTO I meant. Oh. I felt like such a poseur the other day. I was downtown and this nicely dressed Asian guy walked up to me and asked me do you happen to know is that building, pointing the the Concert Hall, is that building a … and he named the architect, which I recognized and said yes. And then I told him the story about how they had to sand it cause it was cooking people who lived in the condos across the way, and how the architect was very pissy about it. I’m so not the guy who tells Disney Concert Hall anecdotes is all.
Oh. Pointing *at* the Disney Concert Hall… I’ve never been in there I should say. I think right now Wicked lives there. Not interested.
My first visit to Lileks. I prefer a more *unusual* style of writing (I blame that on my early exposure to and my lifelong fascination with the writings of Harlan Ellison); I prefer more of a raw style, and crave fast, darting, argumentative prose. But Lileks’ matchbook collection was very nice.
And those airborne barbies? Just, damn.
Happy,
There’s nothing right about class envy, yet it’s there.
In you’re comments.
Just remember you can always move to any other country and not have to concern yourself with the untalented people making millions more than you and I because of their lack of talent.
Lileks is a little off his feed lately. He’s a little focused on the newspaper-blog gig, and it bleeds over into his other work. At that he hasn’t fallen as far as Tim Blair, another site where the comments were half or more of the fun. It ain’t the same without paco and frollickingmole.
Regards,
Ric
Did you see it Happy?
I typed “you’re” meaning “you are” when I meant “your.”
That’s a golden liberal argument, although we’re, unfortunately, not liberal (other than the classic sense) enough to relish the nuance.
I … I did see that but I thought it prudent to let it pass unremarked.
How does one “blame” someone for success. I simply described the conditions that I thought were keeping me from being successful in a particular market. As I was asked to do.
I don’t blame them for their success, nor do I begrudge them their success. Well, some of them I do. But that’s only because they suck.
Tim Blair, another site where the comments were half or more of the fun
Yeah, I just subscribe to him via RSS now, rather than visiting his new site.
Baracky blames Bush for success in Iraq. I haven’t figured out how exactly, but he does.
Ric —
I will not disappear behind a pay wall. I gave birth to this here puppy, and it ain’t going nowhere. And it will always remain free — and, no matter how long a break I take from time to time, I will always return to it.
Like to my own vomit.
I had a plan to write a novella after the elections, anyway. It’s about intentionalism. Though don’t tell anyone. Because I don’t want it to be too obvious.
That word seems to scare certain people, and put others into high dudgeon.
So you see, this new thing, should they hypothetically want me (which, they won’t, trust me), would be in addition to pw.
I don’t think Lileks and Gerard believe I mesh well with them. Just as the serious guys at PJM, once they decided they wanted to be taken quite seriously, had no use for me. I’m like that night you did acid and watched a couple goats fucking before doing a Denny’s dine and dash with your waitress — a strange, interesting story that you think is kinda cool, but at the same time, when you really think on it, you’re really embarrassed that it’s part of your life.
If you’re a serious person who wishes to be taken seriously and all.
I like Rick Moran. I think he’s going to go far. Because he’s precisely the kind of guy they were looking for, just as Lileks is precisely the kind of columnist newspapers look for.
Here, read some of this. If you haven’t already, of course.
Of course, Ellison is now an old man, and isn’t receptive to…well, in his own words…
“Why do people keep insisting that I join the 21st Century? I *LIVE* in the 21st Century! I just don’t want to be bothered by the shitheads on the internet!”
#96: Patrick,
Maybe I was unclear. I meant that I have thought of doing occasional posts for the express purpose of promoting/reminding people of the Pub content. Or maybe I was clear and you find the content there remote from the world — in which case it might also be argued that promoting the Pub might encourage people to post things there that could work on the home page. I was going to go with “like dKos on crack,” except who would know the difference?
Who the hell is Gerard?
Darn it feets- as an advocate for polar bears I thought you would know. Didn’t you get the invite to the picnic?
Much like someone calling into Rush’s show and getting on-air, I’m starstruck.
Maybe that could explain Jeff’s intoxication, from my perspective.
Surely, if I’m drunk, as I am, then Jeff isn’t suffering fools, and I’m a fool.
One of the greatest things about PW was the local (80226 yo!) aspect.
Now to teh philosophy
I never go to the pub. I regularly go to PW. YMMV.
It’s just odd that they’ve come to disdain blogging so much, this PJM, but I hope they find their niche. NRO and townhall and Rush and Cap’n Ed’s new site and the rest really need someone to push them I think. And then there’s that Lucianne and freerepublic nonsense where it’s just so trapped in the 80s. You know who’s nice is that Vodka guy, but mostly it’s a mess.
How.
That’s an interesting term. It cares (it’s a fucking word, a concept of the human mind) not. The term “how” has no feelings.
Yet that’s the example that I wish to provide.
Why?
Because Jeff asked is why.
But why how?
Why does how matter to a semiotician?
Uh oh, fifteen minutes to Judge Wapner.
Gerard… I poked around. I’m not sure what I think. He’s on vacation. I think I just sort of skew younger.
‘Course, three minutes to Wapner.
Ten minutes to Wapner. We’re definitely locked in this box with no TV.
Oh. That was at TerryH, belatedly.
One minute to Wapner.
um, yeah. anymore I file him under “finds interesting stuff” and I go look at that, but I don’t have the attention span for his ramblings anymore. kinda like Lileks.
Hot water burn baby.
I’m glad you said that. I thought he looked like something of a chore too.
Well, Jeff, I hate to say it, but you and I have a lot in common. This is not a good thing, in either direction.
I’ve got a gig coming up; it won’t be enough, and it’s not for a month anyway. It took me maybe two hours of calling around to get it. I just don’t spend enough time calling around and keeping my ear to the ground.
The corresponding thing for you is posting. Karl and Dan and Darleen (especially) have kept things running, but in the process have moved the blog away from center. Fascinating stuff, even mesmerizing, but Billy Jack doesn’t have much to say about horserace polls, and Anna Nicole (RIP) isn’t into child-rearing and the plight of the homeless. Yes, I know, the armadillo is a loss leader, to get the marks inside the showroom where the heavy selling takes place — but you don’t stay at it long enough. Overnight success takes a long time. [ed. note: here append 10KB of cliché, heavy on the grunt-labor-wins]
Or maybe I’m only looking at my reflection in the monitor glass. It’s late, and the JBB is taking hold.
Regards,
Ric
Notes to self: keep posts short and punchy. Mention that Miley Cyrus chick often. Get an earring.
Not at all. Chore I mean in like the way back when I was tending bar in South Texas and you had to listen to people cause they came in every day and they were really the gravy, not the Friday and Saturday night crowd. A lot of people don’t appreciate that about bars. You didn’t just have to listen to them you had to really respect them to where you really almost convinced yourself. Mostly cause they all knew the owner. Gerard demands that kind of respect is what I felt over there. It’s an analogy.
PJM, and this new Qoc thing, and all the others, are just an attempt to drag the “magazine” model onto the web, where it doesn’t really work. There are a few reasons for that, IMO.
Old school business types understand magazines (not a good reason).
The magazine form makes it easy to insert yourself between the money and the talent (also not a good reason).
The magazine form makes it possible to sample works from a variety of creators at a small marginal cost. The magazine made sense for that because printing costs were high and because it wasn’t practical to deal with the artists you like on an individual basis. Neither is true any more.
I have my own “magazine” with all my favorite writers in it. It’s called an RSS reader.
I hope someone does come up with a good way for those writers (also, musicians and visual artists) to get paid, but I don’t think this is it.
Galdarnit,
If, indeed (let me use that term again; gravitas- indeed indeed indeed) one is to question why one would go about a certain action, then one would assume that the answer is to provide a utility- namely, whatever question asked was asked in good faith asked so that an answer could be provided (whilst not exacting propetiary rights) that could somehow, someway (yet more importantly someHOW) provide a useful response.
Such is not the case.
There’s being a chore and then there’s being challenging sometimes. Way different things. Just to disagree with K a little, I think your academic cuts through the academic. If I wanted for real academic I’d read Scott Eric more. He’s very good at what he does, but there’s that tone that’s there as an undercurrent even when he’s at his most charming. I just got through paying that tone off is how I feel about it.
One more, then bed —
I don’t see Jeff having much in common with van der Leun. When I’m in the mood I enjoy Gerard’s stuff, but I’m not usually in the mood, and when I’m not it’s like shoveling sand. Lileks seems to me ambivalent. When he’s on a roll he and Jeff would be a good fit; when he’s on a quite different, almost antipathetic, roll he swings toward Gerard. If the two of them are getting together, it means Lileks becoming more van der Leunish and therefore less interesting to me. A Goldstein-Lileks alliance would generate more of what I like, I think.
Regards (and good night),
Ric
oh. But I guess K’s point went to marketability. I think that depends on how interspersed it is. Also after a few hours going back and inserting the more tag might be a site-friendly thing to do.
oh. It’s late.
I’ll second that. I think most of it probably has to do with age, like happyfeet said earlier. van der Leun spent years in print and I get the feeling he considers himself an editor above all else, hence the collecting of things and the long rambly opinion. but mostly the oldness. ;D
I should have said mostly cause they all knew the owner, but really that’s the only way it worked. Is if you approached what they were saying with a sincerely contrived respect.
Nevermind. I just reread that and it didn’t really get at how some people demand a certain mode of listening is all. Because their own self-indulgence is what’s suffusing the whole communication there, but the whole thing falls apart unless you pretend otherwise.
Kind of like now.
Punchy, indeed.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
Seems like a method that works for the internets.
oh. last thing. By “for real academic” I mean a sustained scholarly tone, and not to be unfair to SEK, it’s kind of hard I bet to shake that sort of thing when you’re on the last bit of the PhD thing or whatever.
Jeff opens this same door about every 3 months, as a result I have given it some consideration of my own and come to the conclusion that the problem is Goldstein- for the most part.
It appears to me that JG is preoccupied with interpretation to such an extent that just about everything he offers is not only well planned, thoroughly prepared, and neatly edited (as should be expected)- but I get the impression that this process happens several times over before anything that might require a public defense is ever presented.
Those are the habits of an academic (nothing inherently wrong with that), but it also works against the natural demands of a fast paced, content driven market place. Jeff writes as much for his critics as he does for his intended audience, and no matter how provocative the subject matter- there really isn’t anything BOLD about doing that.
Does the market demand these Bold and daring takes each and every time out? No, but the refrain is consistent. Everyday from 2pm to 5pm Monday through Friday you have to be there, and somewhere during that time you’re going to have to put yourself out there with less than complete and perfect knowledge- I’m not sure that JG is willing to open himself up to the prospects that this would present.
There is an entire industry tailored to accept and further the careers of individuals where talent is a given and academic study is their frame of reference- Talk Radio Host. Reference the personality “Michael Savage” for some insight. Those PodCast are a launching pad.
Good Luck!
It appears to me that JG is preoccupied with interpretation to such an extent that just about everything he offers is not only well planned, thoroughly prepared, and neatly edited (as should be expected)- but I get the impression that this process happens several times over before anything that might require a public defense is ever presented.
Well, yeah. That’s kinda the theme here, isn’t it?
The funny thing is, Victor couldn’t be less correct, as anyone who reads me on an RSS feed would know. I never write a first draft of anything (I’ll publish, then make a few editing changes, mostly aesthetic); I have no scholarly training whatever when it comes to things political; and I don’t write as much for my critics as for my readers — because the truth is, I oftentimes write for neither.
That my readers have come to enjoy some of my more, say, unusual stuff, makes me happy. But I do that for me. Because it makes me chuckle. Just as I do the posts on interpretation for me, as a way of fleshing out an argument I’ve been having with interpretation theorists for years now. Granted, the latter has the benefit of allowing me to play the role of teacher again. But make no mistake: I was doing all these kinds of posts before anybody read this site — before what I’m now writing in was coined “the blogosphere.”
My posts are almost completely from the hip. I write them when something catches my attention, or when I suddenly think of something goofy to say. And this all takes place in between the steady attention I give my son. Or my training. Or a “Psych” marathon.
So, while I’m glad my posts come across as studied, they aren’t. In fact, I wish I had that kind of work ethic.
Another thought, one that I think gets closer to what Victor may be talking about: I’ll oftentimes end a post whose thesis I’m uncomfortable with with some variation of “Or maybe not. I don’t know.”
And he has a point that I generally will put something like that there to protect myself from my critics. But this is less about writing for them than guarding against them, given that over the years it has been a mission of theirs to try to destroy my credibility (such as it is).
That’s the nature of this medium nowadays. So while I am oftentimes bold, I think, I’m not concomitantly stupid. I use language as precisely as I can to make the kinds of qualifications that are necessary in serious discourse — especially important in this medium, where some people are actively looking to grab your words out of context.
And with that, I will carefully, studiously, mechanically, and intentionally slink off to get me a big bowl of protein-rich breakfast cereal.
It’s because you shoot from the hip (you and Kate at SDA, and I thank you for that) that certainly keeps me enthralled. You are unique and I haven’t the foggiest idea how you can make a living from it. I’ve been all over the net and nothing compares. You don’t fit.
Is why I’ll buy the book.
Not if I buy it first, Diana.
I knew I wouldn’t have to write anything.
Not funny, Jeff.
No names yet, but we’re already working on the suggested “deliberately offensive content” module for The QOR, one featuring – you’ll never believe this – an armadillo, and maybe – maybe – some original work by Jeff G.
Stay tuned.
The only way this will work is to incorporate some sort of gaming/reward system with the prize being access to content. You guys need to get away from the magazine model and tap into the inherent strengths of the internet. Give people an alternative excuse to toss some money at something they might marginally desire and they will. Make ’em earn it. Or at least give them the chance to get lucky. The biggest problem with free content is that it doesn’t cost anything. Plus, it takes some of the pressure off the content providers to be wildly brilliant and creative all the time which can get a little tedious as well. (Lileks, I love ya man, but….)
Not at all funny. But then, I suppose, not meant to be.
Look Jeff…you’ve lost your branding.
You are teh Xgames of the blogverse, when ur drunk straight-up, undiluted and unadulterated.
Karl and Darleen get linkage from Dr. Yes cuz they are mainsteam, ordinary conservos.
I mean, Karl’s been drinking the haterade on O! non-stop and darleen is a grandma that had a meltdown frenzy over the Texas Child Protective Services and almost got banned by Beldar.
Gerard has always been a bore, and Lileks is becoming a bore.
IJS
Darleen picks up a lot of nannystate themes more than anything else, and Karl asks questions as much as he answers them. His questions are important ones too. I think Mr. Reynolds has a lot of the same questions. The media and their Baracky and their McCain were vigorously challenged here is what the record will show, and that’s good branding however you look at it really.
QF was a bore before it was conceived.
… and Nishi weighs in… Well at least she didn’t call anyone cudlips.. That’s something.
So Jeff, what’s your ultimate goal in all of this? How do you define success? Are you looking for recognition on a larger scale.. Like Instapundit the linker.. heh.. Indeed..? Are you looking to attract a large paying audience… to create a viable and profitable online business? Or are you simply looking to generate some modest income?
I don’t know enough about cyberbusiness or blogging to even offer anything constructive on the first two.. but if you’re looking simply to generate some income flow why not offer some sort of ‘gold membership’ to PW? I totally enjoy and appreciate what Dan, Karl, Darleen and the others have brought to PW and the discussions that follow but at the same time I remember the days just a few years ago that you solo’d PW and the pages were filled with Martha, Jihadis, Billyjack, Leif Garrett, Ward Churchill, P-Coat wearing Dolphins, Red Pills.. In other words; mostly cutting edge funny punctuated with the occasional heavy duty political piece.. I for one would be willing to pay some modest monthly recurring fee for a little more of teh funny.. with maybe a weekly podcast or youtube video thrown in.. A centerfold would be cool too but maybe that’s asking for a bit much..
Here’s my thing. I come here because when Jeff posts, I can feel myself, my brain, wake up from my workaday zombie sleep and look at something in a new way. It’s the same type-thing as when I studied Medieval religion at Oxford, and history of fashion at the Sorbonne. The speaker/writer is so deft at showing you that a dress is a dress and it is also these other things, or a religious world is full of delightful and whimsical personalities, when all you have heard of previously is the frivolity or the repression, that after you’ve finished reading, you look and and hear things differently for a while. They’re the same damn things you see and listen to every day, but now you’ve got a new facet to explore.
See, I can see a place where Billy Jack talks sense into a blowhard, or a ‘dillo is hiding, o, there he is, o there he went again, and also a place where the bullshit these modern politicians/religios/science worshippers is taken apart and the parts are teased out into even smaller parts until all the would-be emperors are naked yet again, as they should be.
Of course, my dream intertube routine would be: Stephen Den Beste, posting once per month on politics, with no commentary; Blair back with Andrea Harris and no fucking newspaper between them and the regular people; Lileks commenting on popcult but not using filler to dither; Jeff with Karl/Darleen, and Dan (without the overt sexual HEADLINE that fucks me at work, thank you ever so fucking much with fucking putting derogatory slang and sex in the FUCKING HEADLINES, Dan, no paypal for you!) rolling on the political; and an occasional infusion of Iowahawk, as he often presses his point far past humor. Also Treacher, funny but not bothering my ass with movies, as I can hardly watch them at all any more. Also the gossip people like the Dirty Disher and Crabbie and the Blemish, but they’re certainly not serious enough for the annoying Easy Living to bother with. Also, that nishi will learn proper English someday, but if wishes were horses, I’d have a herd big enough to stampede Madonna to death, leaving an ugly, brutalized corpse. Closed coffin for that Iggy Impersonator.
Oh, yeah. The three written pieces at QOR were sucky, each in their own suckass way. And I hate podcasts and can’t stand video most of the time. I don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone’s breakfast, and the hell with reading an anecdote about never turning left that I read years ago in slightly different form in Reader’s Digest.
But that’s just me.
I still miss “With Cheese!” guy.
Sorry. My cut and paste skills failed.
Should have been just that first part. I know you don’t proofread, you tell us that all the time.
Unfortunately, neither do I.
A couple of things, speaking as a representative of the publisher of The QOR. No Paul Harvey, no Readers’ Digest; no e-zine; Van der Leun is to be involved in an editorial capacity and as resident curmugeon; Lileks is the Curator-Designate of the website; you want edgy, you’ll have edgy; Jeff G. will be given a blank page to write on and, based on what I’ve seen of his stuff over a period of a few years now, he will know just how to use it; we’ll be into revenue-sharing with our contributors; we’ll have rewards for our members for interaction on the site; we’ll have a selection of fresh and interesting material every day (you don’t like Podcasts – and incidentally those are not Podcasts – don’t listen to them); your RSS (how do you pronounce that, anyway? – sort of like your ass, I’d think) feed will not get you to a number of the authors with whom we will be working because they do not now work online; members will be able to interact with content providers (hence the Round Table theme); most of the “free” stuff on the Web is free because no one is paying the content providers for what they write and produce; we’re into the odd idea that we should pay at or above market for our content, with payment based on the number of “clicks” attracted and the ratings of members; and finally, there will be a 30-day period of free content when we launch and you will all be able to see whether it’s worth it to join our community.
Oh, and thanks for so many constructive ideas, and thanks for the brickbats as well. And a special thanks to Jeff G. for helping us out with the survey, and to the thousands who have taken the survey and given us invaluable feedback. We’ll put it all to good use, as you will see.
Sorry; make that Resident Curmudgeon.
JG-
But, frankly, it is difficult work  and when you’re watching what you consider lesser lights advancing while you get left behind, it can also become dispiriting.
I’m sure feels the exact same way when seeing Laurel K. Hamilton get a full frickin’ shelf at the local Border’s.
And after writing both “The Hustler” and “The Man Who Fell to Earth”, I think Walter Tevis might also have something to say on this matter- but, he decided to drink himself to death, instead…
Damn, I blew 3 links in the same post…
Once Again!
JG-
But, frankly, it is difficult work  and when you’re watching what you consider lesser lights advancing while you get left behind, it can also become dispiriting.
I’m sure Bradley Denton feels the exact same way when seeing Laurel K. Hamilton get a full frickin’ shelf at the local Border’s.
And after writing both “The Hustler†and “The Man Who Fell to Earthâ€Â, I think Walter Tevis might also have something to say on this matter- but, he decided to drink himself to death, instead…
JG-
Notes to self: keep posts short and punchy. Mention that Miley Cyrus chick often. Get an earring.
Given the “John Cole” example, you could increase your readership about 5X simply by switching teams…
ushies right.
the pure jeff, uncut an unstepped on, is like brain-aphrodisiac, mind-candy….it carves out new thot channels and forcibly rearranges my skull furniture.
dans good sometimes, but karl and darleen are just talcum powder in the cocaine.
depends who your audience is JeffieG.
That’s my rap name for Jeff.
He represents
your RSS (how do you pronounce that, anyway? – sort of like your ass, I’d think)
Plonk.
you know who my dream team wud be?
Jeff, Allahpundit, INDCBill (ardolino), Reihan Salam, Ross Douthat….and….and…percifield.
damn his eyes.
>:(
fuckit, nothing matters anyways
I say go for it, Jeff. I’d pay.
a lot of things matter I think.
I’m obviously a short-termer on the ‘net, because I’ve never heard of over half of these peoples that are mentioned in this thread. But I found Jeff fairly early, in 2006, and I’ve stopped looking for better writers. Iowahawk, Jeff, and Ace are the only feeds that have survived my RSS merry-go-round (well, Insty, but I like the Drudge Report too).
I won’t spend a lot of time searching out new ‘talent’, either. Nor will I subscribe to a ‘magazine’ (I delivered that weekly ‘Grit’ thing when I was a kid; this new venture immediately reminded me of that…) My internet time is limited, and I want it to stay that way. Videos over 5 minutes, podcasts over 10 minutes, I’m in snoozeland.
I’ve got a nice boat, and as long as I can afford fuel, I’m in that!
so many things to see and do in the tube hole
mega mega white thing mega shouting lager lager lager lager
someone haz gest-blogger envy
lulz ;-P
depends who your audience is JeffieG.
That’s my rap name for Jeff.
He represents
I enjoy the whole group here at PW. And I would like to hold on to my belief that comments like the above make everyone (including Jeff) do that “post-blackout-hangover-embarrassing-memories-returning-in-vignettes” moan. You know, like “Ahuaughaa, why did I do that?” I still do that moan every once in a while, and I haven’t drank in 10 years. Thanks neesh.
nishidiot-
Jeff, Allahpundit, INDCBill (ardolino), Reihan Salam, Ross Douthat….and….and…percifield.
I see at least four voters who tend to favor the “two digit”, “cudlip”, “god-botherers”… And I’ll bet they all also think you’re a fucking whackjob whose childish emotional dysfunction finds an outlet in “griefing”.
Then again, you’re probably just a 5’4″ 220 lb white male anime freak whose fantasy life revolves around a “half-black” “cockslap”…
Actually she’s a girl who likes hiphop dancing and is a lot passionately engaged in a lot of the key debates of our time. Also she has a fulltime job and is kind to animals.
Well, hf, I too have sympathy for the wildebeests and Gaialand, and for a while Nishi spawned some empathy; but lately the mooning and pining (such as that of a lovestruck teen)(and I know the signs: my daughter went through some of that a couple years ago) has pretty much caused me to throw up a little in my mouth.