About Maverick. Obama would later pick these lies up and use them to claim that Maverick was lying about his own record, when he criticized Obama. Even as Obama repeated the claim that McCain anticipates a 100 year American military occupation of Iraq.
Waiting for Obama apology. Sweetie.
Dan
Hotair is running the Video of Lou Dobbs taking a hammer to Jamie Rubin’s head on this, key quotes (scroll down)
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/16/video-shows-jamie-rubin-lied/
Well, sure. He doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about when it comes to foreign policy. Everything he “knows” he learned at cocktail parties in the ritzier Chicago suburbs.
Or Michelle told him to believe.
And how is McCain’s position on talking with Hamas different from Obama’s?
By the way, you got McCain’s nickname wrong. His wife Cindy calls McCain Studmuffin. Protein Wisdom should show its respect for the sanctity of marriage by also referring to McCain as Studmuffin.
I believe Rubin is a Hillbot.
No, you should refer to the California court as Mudstuffin.
And, yes, McCain’s position on talking to Hamas is different, Professor Clueless.
I think ‘deal with’ is a little more open than than you think, professor Caric.
Ok I read that and said huh. Huh is what I said. I think It is also quite something for someone from another campaign to conflate both the role of journalism and of course political activism… is Lou Dobbs saying that it’s very serious for the McCain campaign to be making the charge that this Rubin dildo is a partisan journalist. I don’t think Lou Dobbs was slamming the dildo at all. Cap’n Ed just got excited I think and read it wrong, which means his feet probably got all swole up again.
Happy
Watch the Video. It’s quite clear that Dobb’s gets that Rubin was less than honest and intentionally so.
I did watch. But that’s not what he said. I didn’t take it like that anyway. It was more like hey we’ll put this on the website and let the viewers decide.
here is a direct link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvQ1AfdXUzo&eurl=http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/16/video-shows-jamie-rubin-lied/
Watching again.
Happy
I respectfully say, you took it wrong.
Oh. That lady needs an egg salad sandwich I think.
Oh. I get it. You’re right. He sure could have developed that idea more, cause I was thrown off cause Rubin’s piece was appropriately in the WaPo opinion section, but yeah the nature of his piece could definitely be described as conflating journalism with political activism. Yes. I was wrong you were right.
I couldn’t tell at first if Lou was amplifying Karen Carpenter’s comments or contrasting with them, if you follow. I have very little Lou experience. He should share his lunch with Karen though. I’m gonna stand firm on that.
Oh, dear God. And she died of bulimia. That’s not funny, hf.
Yes it is.
Well. Yeah.
Anyway, when I see you here on Friday night, hf? I hope you’re getting a blowjob while you type, hanging out with us old people.
You are, aren’t you?
Not so much really. I would tell you, honest.
One thing you can say: it’s good for the enamel. That’s true.
– The Q! has been waiting like a coiled bedspring, knowing they were going to really bite it on this issue, immediately after Obamasweetie made his remarkably naive wrong-in-the-extreme statement. He not only said he’d sit down with known terrorist keaders, he did so in a strident, chest puffed out manner, something he repeated to day as he spewed faithfully every mischaracterization abd carefully crafted lie on the talking point sheet in front of him.
– Collectively, in just the first day, the Obama express has made every possible mistake.
– First they rush pell mell to insist that the Pres. was directing his comments at Obama, something they could have left to the eye of the beholder. Dumb. He looked like a kid with his hand in mommy’s purse.
– Second he bald faced lies in front of millions of viewers, trying to put a different face on something thats been seen by millions of viewers, and is right there on video tape. Incredible. Who but his nutroot followers will believe such a thing. Another PR disaster, right up there with Hillery’s sniper woes.
– Then he blusters about debating McCain or GW, as if the chest pounding is going to somehow answer the problem he has with looking like an effete ass, and making jaclass statements.
– Then, to cap it all off, He goes with the BS, ridiculous 100 year screed.
– Finally, the comments by the Pres. are just simply irrifutable, so when he tries to twist it all into some sort of rebuke hes going to get that licked right in his political ass.
– I know hes retired, but this piece of gamesmanship has the dark Lords fingerprints all over it. 5 will get you 10 that Rove is advising the McCain camp behind the scenes.
– Lordy these people are such political babes in the woods. This type of amateurish reaction is a really bad omen for O’s performance in the upcoming fall debates. But then he had some really bad moments with Hillery too. I look foward to McCain quoting Obama’s original statements back to him on live TV and watching him go apeshit.
– Would someone please clean up the margin controls in the script. The page is starting to look like Rosie O’Donnell taking a dump. From the rear. (I looked at it on both IE and FF feets, so that ain’t it. Same thing on both.)
Me too. Looks like it’s at comment #10 what might could use a tinyurl.
Nice homophobic gesture there Dan. But you forgot to stigmatize lesbians. Take another shot.
Mom says we’re supposed to let him play with us cause we have to be kind.
She doesn’t know how for real stupid he is though. Everybody knows everybody always forgets lesbians.
One thing you can say: it’s good for the enamel. That’s true.
Egg salad?
Guys, I have a suggestion: try to pace yourselves.
This is what the entire summer is gonna look like: Obama either says something clueless or lies through his teeth, the entire Press establishment backs him up, and the Prof. Caricatures will dig through the archives until they find something McCain said that sort of corresponds if you leave out every other word and read it backwards, then declare that McCain agrees with Obama.
So keep your indignation down below 7 or so. If you crank it to 11 on every incident you’re likely to burn it out, just like we all already did with our irony detectors.
Regards,
Ric
Hahaha, Ric. I’d love to come down there and debate you on the candidates and their policies towards states in the Middle East. Give me a time and a date and a venue. You can choose the moderator.
You don’t keep track of the facts, because you don’t believe that they are germane to the issues. What a fucking sociologist you are.
Baracky is a pernicious influence I think. I’m not at all resigned to that smarmy little redistributionist student council geek becoming my president. Not at all.
I guess it depends on what you mean by “resigned”. In a lot of ways he’s just managed to out-Clinton, Hillary and Bill. probably because he’s prettier.
His wife Cindy calls McCain Studmuffin. Protein Wisdom should show its respect for the sanctity of marriage by also referring to McCain as Studmuffin.
Ok. I’ve read that half a dozen times and I still can’t figure out what that is all about.
Did Caric forget his Metamucil this morning?
– Its not indignation Ric, its sheer disbelief that the Dems are going to field yet another un-electable candidate, and make sure they do everything they can to bury him politically. Its almost like they have a subconscious political death wish.I thought they’d learned their lesson with sKerry, but apparently maintaining the Narrative is more important. More important even than winning.
– I was thinking they would dump the extreme bullshit, which never sells, and go for someone with broad voter appeal and a clean slate, someone like Richardson. The “Elites” do not seem to do very good at this politics thing.
Truth police here, these are the exact quotes. Where’s the lie? Obama used the exact term McCain used in refering to Hamas: saying we should “deal with” them.
OBAMA: “He was actually guilty of the exact same thing he is accusing me of, and in fact was saying maybe we need to ‘deal with Hamas'”
————————–
RUBIN: “Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?”
McCAIN: “They’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another”
—————————————
don’t believe the shit you read here.
It’s like stupid trolls. If you engage them directly, it legitimizes them. If you act as though they’re part of the rational community, it confuses other legitimate commenters. The way to “deal with” them is to point out to other rational commenters how the trolls are really morons. Then if the trolls begin to change their behavior eg. read a book, check facts, use grammar, stop being totally unfunny – a pre-conditional conversation is possible. Otherwise, the policy of pointing and laughing remains.
When you think about it, it really makes you picture nishi as Kim Jong Il.
“Hey, Han Brix!”
#31
They don’t make anything for where the perfesser is impacted.
It might help you to read the links, Mr doofus hall monitor. Try…OK, I know this is crazy…clicking the first one.
What will you do if let you go home,
And the plastic’s all melted and so is the chrome?
Who are the Brain Police?
I’d like to propose an amendment to the PW Commenting Constitution:
It shall be so ordered that any commentator who produces the phrase “truth police” as a self description shall be summarilly considered a clueless loonwaffle and shall be, herefore and forever more, mocked with no mercy in various ways including (but not limited to) snickering, LOL’s, shaking of heads, spamming with Via*ra E-Mails, swiped at with butterfly nets and having a telephone pole jammed up his/her ass.
Let’s have a convention! I HAZ BALLOONS!
Yah. My wife complains about stray dogs, and I tell her to “deal with it”. One of her options is to shoot and bury them.
Regards,
Ric
McCain said he’d deal with Hamas. Deal with it. Carry on with the lies about ☻bama.
how about that debate between ric C. and dan C. in Vermont? Just for fun. It’s cooler up here in the summer…a vacation? A little brotherly love!
Yeah, Israel deals with Hamas. See Rantissi and Yassin. And we help them “negotiate”.
Caric goes into exile, and upon his grand return, all we get is that weak shit? Then, a homophobe aside in parting. Step up your game, Ric. That crap might work on the Ohio Valley Conference, but not here.
yeah, DAN, the mudstuffin’s beat you to Vermont…but the lesbians beat even the mudder’s of invention as they came quicker lickittysplit.
“CALL AnY Vegetable…..and they’ll respond.” “Rutt—taaaa Baagg—gaaaaa.”
Zappa: “what can I say…..where can go to get my poodle clipped in Burbank…..” a vegetarian poodle clipper was in Vermont…so they came…
ah, Dan you must feel a little Alienated here in Bernie-Land. Bring ric caric here. Have some fun. Might build your note and give the drunken fools at your school something to think about. After they get lost on the streets of Burlington. (taxi drivers ♥ ’em)
thx gPen for the Mother’s link.
for linking the Mothers here. It’s been a long time since hearing “call any vegetable”.
dataless: choke on this.
Who’s lying now, dataless?
sarah W. I don’t get the thing about enamel either. Was it happy’s enamel or his imaginary partner’s or Dan’s I don’t know.
Must have taken ric C.s “another shot”.
I read that…but the substance was on Obama’s side. Such Nuance when the Right claims Obama’s a communist, a fag and whatever. Nuance isn’t part of the Republican trade mark…so don’t call it up now.
– Its really fascinating, in a disgusting sort of way, to watch how the murdering Jihadist thugs ring the bell and the SicFroggs immediately salivate. They might as well paint a ring around their collectivist necks labeled “Cut on dotted line”.
– Sort of a case of mass Stockholm syndrome, ala Patty Hearst, their first Fem cult heroin.
Actually Hamas has been offering several formuli of late for negotiation including recognition of Israel’s right of existence* which is more than the PLO did. Why Republicans are so enamored with the PLO is beyond me.
*typical Arab over-the-top BS but at least ‘reality-based’ for a change. Some of the formula Hamas came up with are creative…more than the bludgeoning that Arafat used to do. I can’t recall and don’t care that much to recall but Hamas has offered some things…look ’em up if you’re interested.
☻’s right about that one. Deal with them.
So, datales, your argument is what’s good for the goose is good for the gander?
the fact of the matter is that the entire interview shows quite clearly that McCain was not advocating “dealing” with Hamas. By saying that said dealing “is going to be dictated by how Hamas acts” is completely in sync with the current policy toward terrorist “states.”
You can wave Obama strawmen all you want but the clear intention of McCain’s remarks are in opposition to Obama’s stated views.
Try to keep up.
“Patty Hearst, their first Fem cult heroin” ? I thought she was the privileged entitled rich girl….who sort of forgot her boyfriend got nearly beaten to death defending her and I never did heroin.
Right, while rocketing Israel. Recognizing that your negotiation partner exists is one of those things they need to actually do before there’s a place in polite conversation for them.
He admitted that Hamas was the govt. and we need to deal with them. That’s the facts.
course maybe he meant we ‘deal’ with them by carpet bombing them…but he didn’t say that.
Obama’s won this one again. ♠☺
When they ask if you want mushroooms on your omelette, dataless is a prime example of what happens when you respond in the affirmative.
Oh, William. Mental midget.
– Stay tuned to this channel kiddies….After the scary multi-ethnic clown finishes making donkey animal balloons for all of you we’ll show the Disney classic where all the Secular Progressive adult children get turned into jackasses on Distemper Island for telling so many lies.
I’m not sure if Hamas even has control over the rockets, Pablo. There are various gangs at work there and Israel does seem to regularly kill Gaza policemen thus leaving the gangs to run free with their rocket attacks.
The main point is that Hamas was elected. And Israel at one time encouraged them to compete with the PLO and now Israel is being dishonest in feigning outrage just like as when they are continually denying that they haven’t a nuclear arsenal. Not sure why they (the Israeli govt.) want to look so dishonest but they do. I think eventually Hamas will be a much better negotiating partner than the dishonest PLO…but maybe it’s their frankness and relative honesty that makes them so scary to the dishonest brokers of twin state b.s. (one state maximum weak but with more people and the other state maximum powerful but with few people).
You’re an idiot, dave. That’s a fact.
Meanwhile, you know what Obama’s problem is? Fox News, that’s what. If not for Murdoch and Co, he’d win Kentucky.
McClatchy -Truth to Power!
Gaza policemen are Hamas, dave. And you’re an idiot. Them’s the facts.
Or maybe … just maybe… it’s what’s written in Hamas’ own charter.
Your ignorance is transcendent.
–“The main point is that Hamas was elected.
– In a rigged election where any opposition was handed a pen, a ballot, and then shot.
– Having to argue in favor of a group of murdering thugs must really fuck up your karma datavoid, not to mention what it does to the actuary tables for life expectancy for your gaggle of pinheads. Good luck.
dataless once again proves he is impervious to actual data.
JD: It is like a data force field, an information kung fu block, a historical perspective castle wall with machine guns, friggin’ laser beams and semi-vicious guard poodles.
No matter how clear the facts and writings, it cannot be breached or torn down. It is the Citadel of Ignorance.
It includes an extensive stable complex for the unicorns.
actually bbh..my spelling sucks too….heroine…with an e is sort of hard to remember. I wonder if Hero is now genderless as heroine seems so French? I actually recall some women felt something for Patty Hearst’s situation. Don’t recall her being called her a heroine.
–““After Palestine, the Zionists….blah,blah,blah”
– Translation: “Immediately after agreeing to peaceful co-existance, a group of ME despot countries, aided and abetted by Russia seeking to spread Communist influence in the region and help destroy the only Democracy in that area, started a war on the tiny nation of Israel, and got their collective Islamofascist asses kicked in three days, and they’ve been whining about it ever since.”
– There. Fixed that for you Data-ass.
I read and reread that shit and I see your very “nuanced” point…but I believe McCain wants to distance himself from Bush’s hard-edged and ignorant Hamas-bashing. And Bush’s sec. of state is seriously over her head in dealing with the players there. She’s still stuck on her Cold War studies of the USSR.
Obama is being a politician….kind of like Reagan going on and on about welfare and drugs and hippies… and since that works in the USA. He’s got McCain’s goat. Good on him as ☻ has enough trouble with the racists that’ll come up soon enough (thanks should be to Hillary for inciting them so that ☺man can perhaps deal with that in time for November._)
Really, either Obama or McCain are so much better than we got now. I am actually feeling hopeful for the future.
Quotes, please.
yesterday I was advocating talks. With legitimate governments, by USA representatives surrogates and allies.And this way is nothing wrong to talk to Iran or Syria, we in fact already are doing this.
As far as Israel is concerned, I think they should not talk to the guys who want them dead or do not recognize their existence. Hamas and Iran should officially recognize the right of Israel to exist, period, then the talks .
keep up the ad hominems. Creativity in ad hominems is just a farce of arguement…but at least BBH has some points..however, I think the USSR was only aiding and inciting the Arabs in a cynical way as the USSR was weak and could only attack where the USA was weak. In the Middle East! And sure enough those Arabs turned on the USSR (and now Russia) big time. Saudi’s and Russians…..yeah sure they were and are so Friendly. (Sarcasm alert!) Keep up the Fiction writing. Consider that as an occupation. El Jeffe could be easily outdone by you. More nuance and humor are suggested though.
JD, your omelet reference got me hungry and the day’s good so outtahere.
have a great weekend, ladies and gentlemen.
I’m not sure if Hamas even has control over the rockets, Pablo. There are various gangs at work there and Israel does seem to regularly kill Gaza policemen thus leaving the gangs to run free with their rocket attacks.
Ya Dataless. And the Government of Sudan has no control over the Janjaweed either.
s far as Israel is concerned, I think they should not talk to the guys who want them dead or do not recognize their existence. Hamas and Iran should officially recognize the right of Israel to exist, period, then the talks .
And since that will NEVER-EVER happen … how are these talks to occur?
Israel does seem to regularly kill Gaza policemen
Honestly, that one is so funny I had to see it again. You know what Gaza needs? A balloon fence. That would keep those nasty Israelis from killing Gaza policemen.
And since that will NEVER-EVER happen
FDIC guarantee?
carin,,,, no govt. (but Clinton once) except poorly financed rebels is attacking Sudan’s govt. Bush has been very handsoff with the Sudan govt. But Israel regularly assassinates Hamas members almost on a daily basis. and thus missiles are lobbed randomly and mostly harmless and inaccurate. tit for tat.
Sudan so far hasn’t paid much of a price for it’s evil actions. Nice points though.
(maybe I can get away from this screen. My son wants me to buy his screen-damaged 6 mo. old MacBook Pro and use it as a desk top…I am thinking maybe but he wants too much. ($1K) My windows pc is about 7 years old and can barely run most of new programs like Sketch Up.)
Really, how is Hamas supposed to stop rocketing Israel if Israel keeps killing them for rocketing Israel?
Hey, that must be “hard-edged and ignorant Hamas bashing”, given that it is precisely the Bush Administration policy.
Pablo pinhead you linked me to Hotair, not Fox. Hotair is the most useless biased link ever given here. But you treat it like MSM.
Pablo: Did dataless just amke a “chicken and egg” argument in Hamas’ favor?
Whoooooooooooo…. dizzy ….
Hey, datanot! What came first? The UN charter allowing the formation of the Israeli state or Hamas’ attempts to destroy her?
Take you time, datanot! Wow, the forcefield, eet is strong today!
carin, behold how radical extremist GOP has become in foriegn policy:
Conservative Caucus Chair Howard Phillips, for instance, “scorned President Reagan as ‘a useful idiot for Kremlin propaganda,'” and published ads which, according to a January 20, 1988 UPI article (via LEXIS):
likens Reagan’s signing of the INF Treaty to British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s signing of an accord with Nazi Germany’s Adolf Hitler in 1938. The ad, with the headline, “Appeasement Is As Unwise In 1988 As In 1938,” shows pictures of Chamberlain, Hitler, Reagan and Gorbachev overhung by an umbrella. Chamberlain carried an umbrella and it became a World War II symbol for appeasement.
According to the January 19, 1988 St. Louis Post-Dispatch, when Pat Robertson was campaigning for President in Missouri in 1988, he “suggested that President Ronald Reagan could be compared to Neville Chamberlain . . . by agreeing to a medium-range nuclear arms agreement with Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev.” The Orange Country Register editorialized in September, 1988 that “Ronald Reagan has become the Neville Chamberlain of the 1980s. The apparent peace of 1988 may be followed by the new wars of 1989 or 1990.”
Newt Gingrich — who today regularly invokes the “Chamberlain/appeasement” cliche for anyone who does not crave war with Iran — denounced President Reagan’s rapprochement with Gorbachev in 1985 as potentially “the most dangerous summit for the West since Adolf Hitler met with Chamberlain in 1938 at Munich.” Don Rumsfeld — who gave a controversial 2006 speech likening war opponents to 1938 appeasers (and used the same 1939 quote as Bush just used from the U.S. Senator who wanted to talk to Hitler) — has been tossing around the Chamberlain insult in order to promote his pro-war views for almost 30 years. The Associated Press reported on November 26, 1979 on efforts to oppose ratification of the SALT treaty:
“Our nation’s situation is more dangerous today than it has been any time since Neville Chamberlain left Munich, setting the stage for World War II,” Rumsfeld said at a news conference.
The people who think this way, who casually toss the Chamberlain slur around towards anyone who doesn’t crave more war, today claim the Canonized Ronald Reagan as their Patron Saint of Strength and Greatness. But, back in the 1980s, people who thought that way were so far on the crazed fringe that they believed Ronald Reagan was too far to the Left, that he was the New Neville Chamberlain, “appeasing” the Soviet Union by sitting down and speaking with them in an effort to achieve a negotiated peace. Today, those same people and their core mentality dominate and define the Republican Party.(GG)
can someone call Nishi up for daycare duty? It’s a beautiful weekend. Damn, I now know how they felt keeping those kids entertained at daycare.
– Its almost to much to believe, even as they proceed to cast their fortunes with an idiotarian impossibly stupid approach to the problem.
– Working notes for the “re-education” of the SecProgg collective:
– Palestine is a staging area for ME terrorism, not a nation. It will never be a nation if the Islamofacists have their way. Such an event would really screw with their plans.
– The Jihadists do not want to negotiate, except for a possible chance to lie and obtain concessions, favorable PR by seeming to desire talks, or when they are getting their asses kicked and they need a time out to re-arm and regroup.
– Now study those notes and get back to us on the O! strategy.
yeah, Sashal you’re getting it. The tired OLD regime has to keep bringing up the evil Chamberlain who was a Conservative just like Churchill who built up the RAF in time to defeat the Germain Luftwaffe, the evil Chamberlain who indeed traded Eastern Europe for time to rebuild the English military in time after Churchill had gutted the military as Chancellor of the Exechequor to cutt taxes on the aristocracy. And their beloved Churchill who led his troops into Dunkirk and certain defeat until the Americans came to their aid.
Yeah, Conservatives are losers. Thank goodness for FDR and Eisenhower’s corrections of stupid British leadership and the Red Army’s millions or we’d be speaking Deutsch now.
Here’s the right link, dave. HotAir is largely an aggregator, with opinion infused around the gazillion links to source information, and Allah is the best news aggregator in the business (though Karl is nipping at his heels). The most useless biased link ever given here would have to be to one of your comments.
At any rate, it’s Fox that’s keeping Obama down. Racists.
See, when your premise is wrong, your argument fails, sashal. The Kremlin was never inhabited by a lunatic. Therein lies the difference.
dave,
Again I think Hamas should renounce their position on Israel’ existence for any negotiations to have a chance to succeed.
Tom Harkin:
Laugh?
Cry?
Rend garments?
Tom Harkin in the Des Moines register:
Laugh?
Cry?
Rend garments?
Sorry!
Its ignorance is transcendant, or the Citadel of Ignorance. Equally apt, but gives too much esteem to dataless. I prefer dum ass hippie.
Obama is doing a smart thing by making the small distinction between his and McCain’s positions on dealing with foreign governments into a larger distinction by linking McCain to Bush. That’s what’s happening, and it’s Obama’s best attack against McCain: electing McCain is like reelecting Bush. Well, there are other good ways to attack McCain such as on issues of fiscal sanity, ending an unpopular war, refocusing our troops on things that make us safer, getting our shit together back home, and putting in a different kind of Supreme Court justice. But really, linking McCain to Bush might be enough.
Which is precisely the content of the “rigid and inflexible” Bush approach.
You know what’s fun about all this, in a grim, cheer-for-the-zombies sort of way? Watching the gradual rehabilitation of Hitler. We rightists have been saying all along that Hitler was a Socialist — he even said so — and Fascism is a collectivist philosophy, and the Left has been screaming “No nononono!!” Now they’ve come around to agree with us, and are introducing, a little at a time, the little hints necessary to push the opinions of the ignorant toward recognizing Adolf as a Socialist Icon coequal with Fidel, Pol Pot, and the other Heroes of the Revolution. Like I said before, somebody let me know when T-shirts depicting Hermann Goering go on sale.
Regards,
Ric
MayBee.
then there’s this
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/edcetera/2008/05/bush_and_his_use_of_appeasemen.html
The left really is running around clueless.
MayBee – They were against militar service before they were in favor of it before they were against it again.
jon – the “small” distintions between McCain and Baracky’s positions? That is like calling Lake Michigan a puddle.
That’s his problem. That’s the best argument he’s got. Unfortunately for O, it isn’t true. And if I were Maverick, I’d be hammering him on him for trying to run against a guy that isn’t in the race.
Rubin is defending himself at Huffington Post today.
Hey, Dan.
“Oh, dear God. And she died of bulimia. That’s not funny, hf”
Yeah, but if Mamma Cass had only shared that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, they’d both be alive today.
#84 MayBee
Well, that quote doesn’t say much for Washington, or Jackson, or Eisenhower…
Harkin will be apologizing soon, I bet.
refocusing our troops on things that make us safer
Tell me, jon: what “things” should our troops be “refocused on” to make us safer?
Be specific.
Thanks!
Datadave,
Here’s the kernel of the problem.
When the left says “nuance”, they mean “somedody has lied, or is lying”.
When the right says “nuance”, they mean “nuance”.
Watching the gradual rehabilitation of Hitler.
Check out this gem, Ric.
“issues of fiscal sanity”
Isn’t that the secret code for Paulbot now?
The only part of Obama’s Progressive ad campaign I might empathize with is when those Cavemen come on. Otherwise, the Messiah only sounds like He’s trying to talk himself out of a padded cell.
Ted Kennedy rushed to the hospital.
Symptoms of a stroke.
Shorter Rubin (and damn you MayBee for making me click a HuffPo link) – I did not lie, and if you think I did, John McCain is no longer a Maverick and is now a lying liar.
Happyfeet was so happyfeety in this thread last night that I was paralyzed for three hours.
Even though I cannot stand Sen. Anvilhead, I hope that he is well and has a speedy recovery.
Even though I cannot stand Sen. Anvilhead, I hope that he is well and has a speedy recovery.
Me too. That’s the difference between this place and HuffPo or Kos.
Comment by Big Bang Hunter (pumping you up) on 5/17 @ 7:07 am #
“- Stay tuned to this channel kiddies….After the scary multi-ethnic clown finishes making donkey animal balloons for all of you we’ll show the Disney classic where all the Secular Progressive adult children get turned into jackasses on Distemper Island for telling so many lies.”
Happy F’ing Saturday, BBH.
I have alraedy seen that movie, but I don’t think Disney made it.
It wasn’t on an island, though. I think it was called “Animal Farm”.
– I’ll let the Kopeckne family know so they can send flowers.
Shorter Rubin (and damn you MayBee for making me click a HuffPo link) – I did not lie, and if you think I did, John McCain is no longer a Maverick and is now a lying liar.
Ha! Yes!
And good luck to Sen Kennedy. Strokes suck.
Spies – That, and the IQ level, sense of humor, honesty, just to note a few other differences.
thanks for linking that reasonable explanation of why we should negotiate with Hamas. They are not Hitler. Nope. It’s the American Right that is Hitleresque, playing with the spelling.
The idea that Hitler is or was a socialist is such a Grand Lie, even the late Roger Alies would be have a hard time with that canard.
Listen, Idiots: Hitler with funding from the German army and industrialists was an agent provocateur hired to take over a small ‘nationalist socialist’ party of that name…but his agenda was that of Mussolini: pro-war,pro-corporate big business (Mussolini got his funding from Fiat which was in the tank business), and uberNationalistic and Anti Communist. If you dimwits think those descriptors are ‘socialist’ then up your Zoloft prescriptions. You need all the medical help you can get. Just keep listening to Jonah Goldberg in his whale of a lie.
What’s Rubin running for again?
“Comment by jon on 5/17 @ 8:55 am #
Obama is doing a smart thing by making the small distinction between his and McCain’s positions on dealing with foreign governments into a larger distinction by linking McCain to Bush. That’s what’s happening, and it’s Obama’s best attack against McCain: electing McCain is like reelecting Bush. Well, there are other good ways to attack McCain such as on issues of fiscal sanity, ending an unpopular war, refocusing our troops on things that make us safer, getting our shit together back home, and putting in a different kind of Supreme Court justice. But really, linking McCain to Bush might be enough.”
“Linking McCain to Bush”?
Don’t make me laugh!
As of this moment (as I have said before), we have three chouces for president.
Jimmuh Carter, Jimmuh Carter, and Jimmuh Carter. This electioin should be called “The Revenge Of Jimmuh Carter”.
– Mighty goodness. Looks like we hit a soft spot there datavoid. You sound exactly like Q! did yesterday, (and I pictured Nixon on the tube as I watched him….*chuckle*), “I am not a surrender monkey!”.
– You can rant all you like, are argue differences. AH got his start using the National Socialist base, and their desire to “dictate” their version of whats best for the greater good.
– Doesn’t matter if you have differences. In the end the results are the same. Its a difference with no distinction. A small cadre of elitists dictate to the unwashed masses, ala Marx. So take your unworkable self anointing Uber cultist ideology and shove it up your anal borehole. What is really amusing is that everyone of the Leftist pinkeads imagine they will be one of the choosen few that get to weild the whip. Morons leading even more morons.
Retirement is nice, though.
If I had to guess, I’d say White House Press Secretary.
#99 SBP — yeah, I saw that, including a longer version (though I’ve forgotten where the more elaborate one was). I commented there. Let’s see if the Seattle Times will let it through.
datadave, you’re funny, especially with your Feerless Leeders moving in unison to contradict you. Hitler was a good guy, seeking only self-determination and control of the national resources for the Deutsche Volk against the rapacious capitalists and imperialists of the Allemanisch Reich, and the only mistake Chamberlain made was not giving him enough, early enough. The only real distinction between fascism and communism is that the former decentralizes authority a bit by giving lip-service to the concept of “ownership” — rigid State control of the Means of Production is common between the two. It basically means that a fascist society is somewhat more productive than a pure socialist one, because some decisions are made close to where the data to base them on is available rather than by a faraway Minister of Production with the guidance of the Politburo.
I figure in a couple of years the posts you’ve been making will be an embarrassment to you, and you’ll be seeking to suppress and “spin” them. By then, the Talking Points you’re so avid to quote will have come around; the nishis will be wearing T-shirts based on this in chiaroscuro, and you’ll be quoting Goebbels in even lighter paraphrase. You ought to study up so you can be ahead of the curve. “The essence of propaganda consists in winning people over to an idea so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end they succumb to it utterly and can never again escape from it.” Here is a good place to start.
Regards,
Ric
I had not read about Ted Kennedy’s stroke when I made that paralysis remark. I hope very much he will be well soon.
Nice tell, Jamie:
He’s a Democrat? Shocka! Now, who questioned anyone’s patriotism? Judgement, yeah…
–“As a Democrat, I am tired of having our patriotism attacked.”
– Simple. Start supporting your country in every way you can, real ways that is, and stop parroting Marxist lies, and helping the Socialist attack America, and you can regain your citizenship in our Republic.
– Other than that, all Leftists could always move to France were they can enjoy the collective benefits of the grand social revolution. (Unfortunately Russia is no longer available for the collectivist cults, having shifted to a gang based operation with the abject failure of that Socialistic state.)
The idea that Hitler is or was a socialist is such a Grand Lie
Free clue: National SOCIALIST German Workers Party.
The fact that it went bad and turned into a nightmare doesn’t prove it wasn’t socialist. Quite the contrary. See also your buddies Stalin, Mao, Castro, Mugabe, Pol Pot, Ho…
Moron.
Liar.
Monster.
– Kadafy
If you really want to understand people like dave and nishi, I highly recommend Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer.
Ever notice that apologists like dave are always quick with the “But that wasn’t real communism” crapola, but never seem to produce an example of “real” communism?
I would have bet his liver would go first.
– They are imminently understandable. They can’t compete in the game because the hand they hold is lousy. They want a shuffle and a re-deal, hoping they’ll come out better with a new hand. The smarter Lefties don’t really believe any of the bullshit propaganda. They know its all about power, and the Right has a lock on power in this country, outnumbering them 3 or 4 to 1. So the only way to shake up the status quo is to generate mass confusion and hope you’re in the winning libe when the dust settles.
Some key points from the National SOCIALIST German Worker’s Party “25 Point Plan”:
We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens…
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
We demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
We demand the nationalisation of all…associated industries (trusts).
We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
The State is to care for elevating national health…
Nope, not socialist at all.
If you really want to understand people like dave and nishi, I highly recommend Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer.
Is it shorter than their posts here?
Is it shorter than their posts here?
It’s pretty short, and, unlike dave and nishi, Hoffer writes in English.
data!NOT! seems to have some kind of manic depressive thing going on, careening from random lighthearted quips to spittle flecked rants against teh ‘Thugs. Remember data!NOT! that those prescriptions don’t work unless you actually have them filled.
It would appear that Goldberg’s book has twisted some panties on the left. data!NOT!’s reaction is telling in that regard. I mean, how dare we challenge the approved message that Chimpy McHitlerBush and all the slavering war pimping Re’Thuglicans are Teh Facisti! Why even if you were to call a liberal racist for supporting affirmative action I don’t think you would get the same level of shaking, pounding fists and incoherent shrieking.
I’ma thinkin’ we could be having some fun with this!
Also, let it be on the record that data!NOT!’s position is that we should be dealing with Hamas on a Presidential level even as their own charter of existance implicitly calls for Israel’s destruction.
Man, oh man! data!NOT! is reinforcing the Citidal of Ignorance with sandbags, trebuchets and, wait a minute, is that a Mile High Dirt Berm© I see under construction?
I HAZ BALLOONS!
“I HAZ BALLOONS!”
Nah…
WAR KITTENS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosTIwbFjzM
– SPB – Does anything ring any bells, particularly the last otem on your list. I think the SP’s should just ignore the book, and not even try defending this disscusion, The more you examine the two ideologies, the more you realize just how much they share with the Nazis.
– I remember wondering, way back in 2002, just why the Left came running out dragging the Hitler references all over the political landscape. I suspected they felt they needed to get out front of this dirty little secret before their sworn enemies picked up on it, and now in retrospect thats probably exactly why they did it. Not wise in the extreme, but I suppose its impossible for projecters to control themselves.
– The way they run many of their blogs, suppressing any counter view posts, etc, is just one manifestation that proves the point. Socialism and Fascism make very comfortable bed fellows, witness the defense of the Jihadist murdering cult by the Left. Not cool, and so obvious even a caveman can see it.
“and so obvious even a caveman can see it.”
GEICO-IST!!!
Nothing is getting over that wall, BJT. The walls go up to the mesosphere, and balloons pop.
———–
You know, I’m very sorry for dragging Happyfeets name into an ill-timed remark. I’m just glad I didn’t add what I was going to, which is “I thought it was some kind of seizure”.
The Ted Kennedy bow-wave must be pretty strong. I was just sitting there at the reply box without the proper descriptors and those ones turn up.
…with funding from the German army…
At least dave is original. That is one I haven’t heard before anyway.
The way they run many of their blogs, suppressing any counter view posts, etc, is just one manifestation that proves the point. Socialism and Fascism make very comfortable bed fellows, witness the defense of the Jihadist murdering cult by the Left. Not cool, and so obvious even a caveman can see it.
Protein wisdom to its credit is probably the only right wing website that I’ve visited that isn’t way slow or so popular that it has to deregister ‘trolls’ and ‘critics’. I’ve been cut off in some of the left-ones too for criticizing the clintons for example. But w/ exception of this one same problem on the right esp. freerepublic. the Nation is one that’s freedom oriented but so many right wingers got in there and purposely repeated clogging codes that they got overloaded with crap at times…but you have to be pretty bad to get knocked out there. I still maintain this is one of the best designed sites for discussion even if dominated by a few…but that’s how the faster moving ones are. (been doing this since the 90s back in the original NYTimes Forums over the Clinton/Monica affair…that was fun but it got closed down as people were having too much fun with too little bandwidth in NYtimes opinion.
Again, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich explaned the so-called ‘socialism’ of the Nazi’s which was bogus but a useful propaganda trick of using the original name of the party Hitler took over to make the corporate sponsored Right Wingers (heirs of the FreiKorps…(you know who they are? ) look Kinder and Compassionate as ‘socialism’ then was considered a good thing in European parlance (as opposed to militaristic Carlism that caused the First World War. No historian in his right mind will call the Nazis socialist as they were bitter enemies of the large Social Democratic party that was bigger but due to intervention of the Aristocracy and Military afraid of the popularity of the Social Democrats threw their money and weight behind the antiSocialist Nazis…esp. after the burning of the Reichtstag and the Enabling Acts (which has it corrolary in Bush’s 9/11 and suppression of the Democrats in effect but w/o your usual thuggish-ness. Luckily a strong counterweight to Bush constitutionally protected the US from the Putchstists like Hitler. Although the religious fanatics like Hagee would have liked Bush to go further in a one party domineering fascistic route.
in other words, you don’t have a clue as to history.
Maybe the reason why people question the Dems patriotism is that they are the home of the anti-war movement. You know the movement that they court the votes and contributions of, right after they vote to fund said war or give the President the power to wage it. Also most of their politicians are the ones comparing our troops to Nazi’s, Pol Pots thugs, soviet gulags, and calling them cold blooded murderers. I haven’t seen any Republicans going around doing that. If you can find the quotes of Tom Delay or Beohner saying the President lied us into any war or that our troops were idiots for even fighting it since it was worthless I would love to see a link.
– Sarah….its cool….I doubt anyone even noticed til you mentioned it. Just a guess, but possibly you’re feeling the uncomfortable tickle of the media spotlight. Very normal for any of us human beings.
– Unless you’re Cleo, these things happen. For instance today I was watching a loop of O! delivering his bad boy feckless yelp of “I am not an appeaser surrender monkey”, when FOX cut away to the Keebler cookie tub tumbling down the stairs, and I blew soda all over my monitor. No big.
Bush’s 9/11 and suppression of the Democrats
Bush’s9/11? Suppression of the Democrats?
“in other words, you don’t have a clue as to history.”-spits out his beer in uproarious laughter…
Come on, guys!! Seriously, this has GOTTA be Jeff fucking with us!
– Of course AH commandeered the Socialist party. You unwittingly prove one of the many posts that have pointed that very fact out to you dataless. As Ric has said. Its amusing to watch you twist yourself into pretzels, trying to argue yourself out of the tiny little corner you and the Left have painted yourselves into. He was able to infiltrate the Socialists exactly because so many of the tenents of his ideas of Nazism fit right in with the NAP’s ideology. Ok. Point well made. You seem to be in violent agreement with everyone. Good job. Now of course you’ll be needing to turn in your party card, you silly apostate you.
By the way, aside from the soft plaudits to the Democratic nature of PW, what exactly did the “Hysterical lesson”, (which carefully avoided some of the salient points of support for AH emanating from the American Left), have to do with the header comment I made?
– You start out strong and seem to wonder in your posts. OCD?
yupp. dude, Hitler was well liked by the German Army. The Night of the Long Knives was instigated by the Army as conditional for them to support Hitler…they said get rid of the more ‘socialist’ aspects of the Nazi party and then we’ll support your dictatorship..(thinking they could control him) and he had his more Populist (and btw homosexual) co-leaders were wiped out. Ernst Rohm:
“Second revolution
Röhm became one of the most prominent members of the party’s “socialist” faction. This group truly believed in the socialism carried in the party’s full name, insisting on the nationalization of large firms, profit sharing for employees and cuts in interest rates. This was bitter anathema to the business community, which had supported Hitler’s rise to power. Röhm spoke of a “second revolution” and vowed to act against “reactionaries” (a label the Nazis had long applied to their enemies on the political right) much as the Nazis had dealt with the communists whilst consolidating power earlier that year.
Hitler swiftly reassured the German business community that there would be no “second revolution,” which opened a breach between him and the SA. Many storm troopers were anti-capitalist members of the working class and viewed their street fighting on behalf of the Nazis as a socialist revolution. Hitler thought of the storm troopers as a political weapon no longer needed after the Nazis had taken control of the German government. Röhm however continued to believe the SA was Hitler’s “revolutionary” army and showed contempt for the Prussian military leadership. Hitler had gained power with the army’s support, and knew that the top army leaders cared little for Röhm. He was keenly aware his control of the German government depended on the army’s continued backing. Moreover Hitler could only succeed the ailing 86-year-old Paul von Hindenburg as president and commander-in-chief if he had the army’s support.
Comment by SarahW on 5/17 @ 3:56 pm #
Bush’s 9/11 and suppression of the Democrats
Bush’s9/11? Suppression of the Democrats?
I think they are referring not to questioning their patriotism or silencing dissent, but simply to their inability to repeat the Narrative successfully in the 2 or 3 years after 9-11. You know it is kinda hard to say your country is the bad guy when a couple dudes with box cutters ram planes into buildings to kill civilians or are posting videos on youtube of themselves cutting off heads. The NARRATIVE was extremely hard to back up even during the run up and first couple months of the Iraq war. That is until Abu Gharib when we as US soldiers, and by extension President Bush and his administration, were once again turned into evil murdering bastards. Hence they were silenced after 911 and not allowed to refer to their own country as the problem for a couple years. It is all good now though game on baby, God D*mn America.
The lights of the party shine over the fields
Where lovers and dancers watch catherine wheels
And argue realities digging their heels
In a world that’s finished with war
And a lost wind of summer blows into the streets
Past the tramps in the alleyways, the rich in silk sheets
And Europe lies sleeping,
you feel her heartbeats through the floor
On the last day of June 19…
On the night that Ernst Roehm died voices rang out
In the rolling Bavarian hills
And swept through the cities and danced in the gutters
Grown strong like the joining of wills
Oh echoed away like a roar in the distance
In moonlight carved out of steel
Singing “All the lonely, so long and so long
You don’t know how I long, how I long
You can’t hold me, I’m strong now I’m strong
Stronger than your law”
I sit here now by the banks of the Rhine
Dipping my feet in the cold stream of time
And I know I’m a dreamer, I know I’m out of line
With the people I see everywhere
The couples pass by me, they’re looking so good
Their arms round each other, they head for the woods
They don’t care who Ernst Roehm was, no reason they should
Just a shadow that hangs in the air
But I thought I saw him cross over the hill
With a whole ghostly army of men at his heel
And struck in the moment it seemed to be real like before
On the last day of June 1934
Al Stewart Last Day of June
…weird, who woulda known?
– All of which is just a small part of exactly what the Euro-block Marxist/Fascists/Communists, et al, seditionists have hoped would happen here in America, once they had thoroughly indoctrinated a few generations of American Socialists/Leftists/Marxists ect.
– Its pretty much a sure thing it won’t work here, but you all are welcome to try. However do not be so naive as to expect a soft pass and free ride of it. In fact, if by some miracle the Socialists did gain control here, the only question would be how long it would take for the snakehead to rise. Your ideology is impossibly wrong headed, and can’t work economically or even socially, but it does make a great template for despots and cult leaders to ascend. Bon appitite sport.
I had a micro-stroke two years ago. It was the anti-fun. I hope Sen. Kennedy recovers fully.
Let me lay it out for you in small words, mm’kay?
1) Socialism requires granting extreme powers to government. The populace is generally persuaded to grant the government said powers through the promise of free lunches all around. Stupid hippies such as yourself see the bait, but don’t see the hook.
2) Once those powers have been granted, the government INEVITABLY falls into the hands of those whose primary drive is power.
3) If you’re extremely lucky, you wind up with a stagnant, bureaucratic, non-competitive government (e.g., Britain in the decades post-war and pre-Thatcher). More typically, you wind up with Hitler, Stalin, or Mao at the helm.
4) Once the Strong Man assumes power, the “idealists” (hint: that would include stupid fucking hippies like yourself, dave) find their services no longer required. Liquidation follows.
It’s happened over and over and over again, dave.
And the Nazis were socialists, dave. It’s a fact. No matter how much you try to spin it.
– Apparently he had two seizures, not a stroke as was originally being reported, and is now sitting up in bed and joking with visitors. He will be undergoing 48 hours of extensive testing, and careful monitoring. Good news.
jeesh, and did you think there was only one ‘socialist’ party in Weimer Germany? The SDP was avidly against Hitler and suffered the most when he succeeded to leadership even with only 33 percent of the vote due to the Aristocracy, industrialists, and the Army’s support.
SPB ?? SDP is the English version of the Socialists of Germany (social democrats) They were definitly not the Nazi’s but their enemies. As well as were the less popular but nearly equally violent communists. Remember Weimar?
anyway, link me some Jonah G. in the Whale of a Lie…but I will not buy his book.
I’d like to see the dept of Homeland Security eliminated as it’s Nazi-ish in my mind..but since it is so profitable for Republican security companies…i think we’ll be harassed at the airports for a long time. A small price I guess. I admit Bush seems to be going out like a lamb so that’s good. Reagan was worse in my book…but again the economy sucked then too.
got your goat eh? Only had one bottle of Wild Blue so far today. (nefarious posseur of independent beer production but actually an AnhauserBusch product…like so many other newbies out there….like LandShark! IN AMERIKA with have real peaceful BEERPUTSCHES…fake indi beers actually made by mainstream beer companies!!)
–“It’s happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, dave.
And the Nazis were socialists, dave. It’s a fact. No matter how much you try to spin it.”
– Maybe if you see the words often enough they will finally sink in dave. I doubt it. Once you become a true believer, you have to disavow your indoctrination, and they don’t call it indoctrination for nothing. But anything is possible I suppose.
48 hours of extensive testing and monitoring is no fun either. I had that. You get to sleep for one hour at a time and then you are dragged off willy-nilly and wrung through tests. My CAT-Scan (MRI?) was at 2 a.m., for which I was grateful – I could doze in the tube. (Yes – it would be like being loaded head-first on your back into a torpedo tube.)
A hospital is no place to get well.
Socialism. There is no operative difference between the government owning the steel plant or just telling the owner how much of what steel he is going to produce when.
The only difference is you leave the guys who actually know how to make steel in charge of the furnaces instead of killing them and sending in a bunch of lit-crit majors to run the place.
Germans are generally efficient like that.
jeesh, and did you think there was only one ’socialist’ party in Weimer Germany?
Spin away, dave.
Won’t change the facts.
Spies, you should be a libertarian…so why the support for the Bush Beer Putsch…(damned Wild Blue has 8 percent._) ? The WAR On TERROR to be effective might include eliminating the Naturalists and Hippy’s thus why you are so endeared to it.
I think socialists are a large segment of differing hues and colors and hardly a One Ideology. Social Democrats vs. Democratic Socialists, vs. Communists (who usually eliminated ‘socialists’ first when they take power… one reason I wouldn’t last long in Cuba…) Now the Right, they were useful to the communists….they got to be in the army and in the prison leadership… CheKa became the KGB with same thugs in place..
Swedish socialists? yeah, right they are really oppressing people. You prefer Bush/Mussolini getting the trains to run on time and no-bid contracts and bailouts of large financial companies.
Swedish socialists? yeah, right they are really oppressing people.
Sweden is a crime-ridden hell-hole (murder rate 2X that of the United States) where free speech simply doesn’t exist.
Try harder, Dave.
Ever notice that people like dave are always screeching about being “silenced”, but somehow never seem to shut the fuck up?
Ever notice that people like dave always claim to be on the brink of being sent to the gulag by ChimpyMcHitlerBushBurton, but somehow they never seem to get disappeared?
Ever notice that people like dave don’t even believe their own bullshit?
–“I’d like to see the dept of Homeland Security eliminated as it’s Nazi-ish in my mind..”
-Yes, yes….*snort*…..Lets see, the Dems were loudly against HLD when it was first proposed, then the instant the Prez. hesitated on building another bureaucracy they suddenly got religion, (all those new pork barrel jobs don’t you know), and started howling for it. Then after it was passed they did another 180, since they didn’t feel they scored enough cushy handout stickers from it. I blame it on Pelosi, and her inability to get out the talking points memo’s with any sort of timeliness.
– BTW, again I’m amused that you see HLD as a vast bureaucracy, but at the same time seek to turn our health care system over to the same clusterfuck gov. The Left is simply not serious. Thats the only way to explain the massive oxymoronic conflicts in their thinking.
actually the Swedish socialist tax business less than we do. let business run its own affairs. But demand firm commitments to social welfare and the businessman buy into it as it works better than what they see in the USA or Britain. They think our wide spread poverty is a joke. The Sweds and Danes came from being the poorist nations in northern Europe to being the most productive and healthy and wealthy due to 30 or more years of socialist direction. It works! They have a conservative party too which occasionally gets in office but doesn’t dismantle the program set in place that benefits society under the socialists. (long vacations, strict regs. on building, fair (and high) personal taxes, no poverty (except for some immigrants who may be illegal but still get housing and health care.)
so what’s your alternative? Haitian style capitalism: dog eat dog.
“so what’s your alternative? Haitian style capitalism: dog eat dog.”
RACIST!!
I denounce dave.
good one! Spies I heard of the problem of immigration in Sweden and obviously the crime is due to the Muslims. But then what are they to do with them?
It’s a new connumdrum and worth seeing how they deal with it…but the average Swede is damned well off. (a friend’s reporting about how he was blown away by their homes, wealth in comparison to the average American). Now, being an average incomed American I can’t afford to go there so don’t tell me to catch the next flight.
I read the Sun too. But that article has a note of ax-grinding doncha think?
actually the Swedish socialist tax business less than we do
And they tax individuals at a much higher rate.
Odd form of “socialism” there, dave. Sounds almost like what you said the Nazis did.
52% in Sweden, 29% in the US
Haitian style capitalism: dog eat dog.
If you think Haiti now has, or ever had, a free market economy you’re even dumber than I thought.
It’s been a kleptocracy since day one.
So how did the German military raise the money to fund Hitler, dave?
“but doesn’t dismantle the program set in place that benefits society under the socialists. (long vacations, strict regs. on building, fair (and high) personal taxes, no poverty (except for some immigrants who may be illegal but still get housing and health care.)”
So you mean they keep those programs that restrict the liberty of their own citizens. Very nice. Love to hear your idea of what a “fair” tax on an individual is too.
I heard of the problem of immigration in Sweden and obviously the crime is due to the Muslims. But then what are they to do with them?
Force convicted criminals to listen to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU481jg8UXU
some of the money came from investments such as from Bush’s granddaddy.
btw Hitler was well appointed even before getting in power. industrialists supplied him with a new Mercedes for his travels (i recall from Shirer’s Rise and Fall…
Frink ring a bell?
Holy sh!t, taxing citizens 52 percent???????????????? That sounds to me like you do not have citizens, you have peasants tilling fields for their lords.
There’s an Iraqi heavy metal band out….but their instruments and rehearsal studio was bombed but they are still ‘truckin’ reported in NPR or somewhere….
“industrialists supplied him with a new Mercedes for his travels (i recall from Shirer’s Rise and Fall…”
And Jeremiah Wright has 2 Mercedes and a $10 mil line of credit. Shit, Dave’s right! Those bastards at IG Farben and Daimler-Benz are still propping up race-baiting, anti-Semitic cranks to this day.
– So did Rockefeller dave. 40 million in bullion through swiss banks. Not a lot by todays standards but the 30’s. Whoa. Should FDR have deported him?
As a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, I am in the Department of Homeland Security – sort of.
When do I get to round people up? They never told me about that! Darn it, I want some fascist fun too! All I get to do is go on patrol and keep people from killing themselves ’cause they are too drunk/stupid to be on the water.
– BTW, since you opened the door, should we discuss Kennedy, the Daddy, and his embarrassing diplomatic adventures in Britain. No?. I thought not.
some of the money came from investments such as from Bush’s granddaddy.
So the German Army was not only a publicly traded company, but Bush’s granddaddy was an investor? This is fascinating stuff, dave, tell us more!
Love to hear your idea of what a “fair†tax on an individual is too.
the rate doesn’t matter. it’s what you get for your taxes. Comparatively we get shit. My other taxes are Monopolistic costs of health care (18 percent on average), Transportation Fuel (about 10 percent and no mass transit so I have to buy it), auto insurance (2 percent), and 15 percent social security, and 18 percent Fed and 4 percent State. (lets add up the REPublican monopoly taxes; health care, fuel, auto insurance: 30 percent and the govt taxes. 37 percent ..add ’em up a whopping 67 percent going to Govt and Republicrat sponsored monopolies….)
But I refuse to pay the health care tax so minus 18 percent for me….only 50 percent..but I have no health care unless I need it and then get billed the full rate. But I left out sales tax so if you have health insurance you’re paying a hidden tax to monopolies of almost 70 percent if you’re in the lower middle class…but the more money you have the less you pay in percentage…that’s how it is in America.
– Again btw, unlike yourself dave, old Joe later repudiated his backing of Hitler, saying it was the biggest mistake of his life, and vowing to NEVER support Socialism again. Apparently his spawn didn’t get the memo.
I denounce dave.
me too. jeesh, need another beer. It’s Saturday and Dan’s having fun somewhere. Grad. weekend, hell, the college town’s poppin’.
Jesus christ you consider gas a Republican monopoly and equatable with a tax? Uh what planet do you live on?
Love to hear your idea of what a “fair†tax on an individual is too.
http://www.fairtax.org
joe? joe kennedy, joe stalin? my votes on the first one. he got fired for that one, what a whoremongering idiot.
Ted Kennedy and GW Bush got along famously. So I see no reason to think PW would denounce him except for his tragic womanizing. He paid that price too and helped get Carter out of office.
…he got fired for that one…
Joe Kennedy got fired for repudiating Hitler? This just keeps getting better!
Hey BMoe this guy datadave is completely gone isn’t he?
I heard of the nat’l sales tax idea for sometime and the Euros actually have a more robust one already in place, but the problem in the USA is that the tax would fall mostly upon the lower and middle classes and would suddenly restrict demand for products leading to a recession or worse. Also it’s easy to skirt and I think euros are expert in that too. Building a house often entails cash payments and you bet most would hide that income. Lawyers and services likewise. Tax cheating in Europe is a past time but they also have more draconian tax collectors..(some German tennis star’s dad went to jail for tax evasion on her income he’d hidden).. where in the USA relatively few actually go to jail and only in the most egregious instances..that actor for instance..)
Yeah I think he got a real early start today.
no, Joe got fired for endorsing Hitler while ambassador to Britain, thus FDR fired him…and later Joe had to admit disgrace and damn Hitler.
–“He paid that price too and helped get Carter out of office.
– Now we know you’re losing it dave. Many things “helped” get Carter out of office. 400+ days of American diplomatic hostages was a big part of it. I often wonder if there would have been no peanut farmer where the Caliphate would be now.
– I suppose you could say the same about Nixon, but for better or worse at least his bullshit provided cover while we busted our asses to get MAD deployed so we could get the fuck out of Nam. Even the worst things sometimes have hidden positives.
I heard of the nat’l sales tax idea for sometime and the Euros actually have a more robust one already in place,
Wrong. A system like the one I linked exists no where in the world at the moment.
but the problem in the USA is that the tax would fall mostly upon the lower and middle classes and would suddenly restrict demand for products leading to a recession or worse.
Wrong again, poor people would pay no taxes, taxation depends on how much you spend, it would encourage saving and investment, remove the tax code burdens from business, and the economy would likely explode.
Also it’s easy to skirt and I think euros are expert in that too.
Wrong. It is much simpler than the current system and would be much easier to police.
Building a house often entails cash payments and you bet most would hide that income.
Wrong again. It is a retail tax, dumbass. The only tax on a house would be when it is sold to the buyer. And only on new houses.
Moron.
– dave is correct about his description about old joe’s mishappen career. Except he deftly left out the reason, or at least one of the reasons he was so anti-American, which has historically been a position all Leftist/Socialists have shared. He was embittered because for all his accomplishments the Blue Blood upper crust of Boston would never accept him, and treated him like a rather lowlife upstart to the day he died. Maybe the fact he made his millions running Illegal rum boats off Revere beach during prohibition had something to do with it.
– But in his story you can see the main kiss of death for socialism. The tendency to worship government and cult leaders as their religion, and why they are so easily conscripted eventually.
– Dave is correct again when he says he wouldn’t last long in Cuba. the Irony with that little confession is that Cuba is the crown jewel in the wall of shame for the Left. Fidel loved him chickens in hotel rooms, and the American Left.
Seizures? I had one while attempting a 6 foot downhill slider on #17 this afternoon. Cost me the match.
If you gave me a choice between Kyle Busch running into the Turn 1 wall nose first, Dale Jr winning the Shootout, or datadave becoming miraculously coherent, I honestly do not know what I would pick.
Not to be mean but it’s too hot today to catch up on threads with high datadave person comment ratios. But James Rubin is a lying piece of shit it turns out. I bet his mom and dad are super-embarrassed.
– You wouldn’t miss anything feets if you skipped it. data is just the latest generation of young turks that have to get their baptism by fire to true political enlightenment. Luckily he appears to reside in America, so the choice under the Socialism of his dreams is not baptism or firing squad.
I gotta pull for Dale Jarrett tonight, JD. Would love to see a nice guy finish first in his last one.
BMoe – If DJ won, I certainly would have no complaints. Classy man, he is. Dyslexic, but good name nonetheless.
– Ok JD. I’ll say it….Then we should all pull for him to niw.
B Moe…you’re playing the dumbass calling me stupid and me getting cash for work isn’t uncommon or even a cheque which can be cashed at the bank. The Federal Govt. doesn’t go that far to check every bank for cashed cheques and better yet a check from a Swiss bank isn’t followed by the Feds either unless a really focused investigation is in force. So it’s EASY to skirt a sales tax. Especially for services rendered. Employment income is the easiest way to collect taxes and the USA was brilliant in thinking that up and getting business to do the hard work of collection is even better.
When you build a custom house the Bank gives the Owner the cheque and then the owner pays the builder. Sometimes the owner might use that money loaned to him to build the house to go on a cocaine buying spree when he shoulda been paying the builder. (ah, yes, a true story.) By the time the builder gets his pay it’s untaxed cash unless the builder declares it in his account. Anyway, you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not a retail transaction. How’d you pay for your house? Cash, or did you pay the builder and his bank…the usual huge fees and points, sucker. They were in cohoots together. And neither of them are paying retail sales taxes. It’s real estate not a consumption item.
oh, i like this idea: “Wrong again. It is a retail tax, dumbass. The only tax on a house would be when it is sold to the buyer. And only on new houses.
Moron.”
silly, that’d really be a good way to tank the new home market esp. with one or two million homes unable to be sold. But I am a remodeler. I’d make a killing making ‘sheds’ into new homes but calling ’em remodels. No taxes! yupp…easy to skirt that tax.
check from a Swiss bank isn’t followed by the Feds either unless a really focused investigation is in force
Yes, if the fair tax comes into effect I’ll certainly insist that McDonalds transfer the funds for my Egg McMuffin through Switzerland so I can avoid the tax.
Same thing with the local gas station and my corner bar. I’m sure they’ll be happy to oblige.
Moron.
(P.S. I’m still laughing about your claim that paying for YOUR OWN PERSONAL health care and transportation is a “tax”… what about rent and food? Are those “taxes”, too?)
yupp…easy to skirt that tax.
Except for the taxes on all the tools and materials you buy, and the taxes on your pay when you spend it, and…
Moron.
It is amazing how people will argue about the FairTax without reading anything about it. That is the kind of willful stupidity that drove me from the Democrat Party. dave has no fucking clue how the FairTax works, yet he will argue against it vehemently. You are truly a moron, dave.
#194
You better be paying your 941s, or the IRS is going to be paying you a visit. A re modeler, who lives in Vermont. Shouldn’t be too hard to track down.
better yet a check from a Swiss bank isn’t followed by the Feds either unless a really focused investigation is in force.
No. The bank where it’s cashed sends a copy of it to the Treasury Department.
And you have the nuts to call repubs theives.
941s? eh. I don’t have employees at the moment and neither does my ‘boss’. It’s called ‘subcontracting’ for a reason…and another ‘skirt’ that Republicans like my ‘boss’ use.
“The FairTax will not be enforceable and evasion will be rampant”
“The truth: More than 80% of all tax returns are eliminated under the FairTax–every individual filing. What remains are retail outlets collecting the FairTax. Of these, 80 percent of all retail sales now occur at large retail chains like Wal-Mart. The point is oversight will still reside under the Treasury Department but the government’s responsibility will be over a far smaller “universe” of tax collection points making compliance oversight far less costly and far more effective than the current system which costs $265 billion a year in compliance costs and still comes up $350 billion a year short of what is owed.
Read more information about compliance in the FairTax white paper: FairTax Reduces Complexity, Compliance Costs and Noncompliance. ”
holy shit. What idiocy! 80 percent of Retail sales at big box stores. DAMN, they’re selling houses there too? Cars? And I bet Walmart billionaires will be very happy to have a 23+ percent tax tacked on their merchandise. You bet!
I am not worried about that sort of tax being enacted anytime soon. Doctors and Lawyers will really love that one too…..sarcastically. More bartering, trading, etc… but that’s maybe what’s wanted… a pre-industrial economy.
Teh stoopid…eeet burnssss!
eh, Pablo tells us ‘something we don’t know’. eh? Seems like you don’t do anything except post here.
Uh. ‘subcontracting’ doesn’t give anyone a pass on income taxes, and apparently everywhere else but Vermont ‘subcontracting’ can be considered a business which may be incorporated. The tax advantages are obvious, unless you are electing to not report income. Hope you’re making your quarterly payments. Audits can be costly.
Fair Tax. That’s funny.
And I bet Walmart billionaires will be very happy to have a 23+ percent tax tacked on their merchandise. You bet!
If they no longer have to deal with corporate and personal income tax? They will be doing backflips.
80 percent of Retail sales at big box stores. DAMN, they’re selling houses there too? Cars?
I have never purchased a house or a new car in my life dave. Many people haven’t. How many new houses will an average person buy in a lifetime? New cars? The FairTax is only on new items, I buy most of my work clothes at thrift stores, those would be tax free also. Combined with the prebate, my tax burden would be nearly zero.
rusty, i’ve been audited before. The lowpaid idiots at the IRS are dopes. Believe it. They subcontracted a lot of the collections to crappy collectors that don’t know what the other hand is doing.
951s are for employers only. self employed sole proprietors don’t need them.
The lowpaid idiots at the IRS are dopes.
“Taxes are for the little people”.
Thief.
dave has no fucking clue how the FairTax works
Actually, it’s starting to look like he DOES understand how it works, and recognizes that it’s going to be a lot harder for him to be a tax cheat under it.
this Fair Tax thing might be good for you and me…but for the overall economy? I don’t think so. But it’s not going anywhere as the low level Republicans involved are fairly insubstantial people and without much influence. No offense.
I just learned the angryrenter.com is a phoney website put up by the likes of dick armey and steve forbes neither of whom are poor renters and anything. They have similar pretensions of being economic populists but really are looking out for the most greedy, selfish interests in the USA. I think eliminating the social security taxe with a more fair, flat tax for old age retirement income would be a good thing. But that’d be easily done by just removing the high income cap on taxation…with a corresponding lower rate. It was Reagan (with conservative Democrats) who raised the Social Security tax to it’s present catastrophic levels.
btw, I pay income taxes once a year…like most people.
I mean ‘file’ income taxes. once a year.
The tax costs of any given item are easily in excess of even the 23 percent already dave. The tax costs on retail items would go down, not increase. Is there any topic that you are not aggressively ignorant?
JD, I don’t think you’ve even read the website, that B Moe, offered. It’s weak on the collections aspect as there a lot more points of transaction than there are places of employment (a fallacy they mentioned). If only new items (and food too) are limited to taxation just think how’d that further sink Detroit, steel sales, etc. Home builders (if they did it legitimately but they’d say they were ‘used’ and not taxable. And an arbitrary distinction between ‘used’ and ‘new’. I didn’t see that int the plans. Every mom and pop store, every garage sale, every Ebay sales…whatever needs to be taxed to make the equal payments that govt. now collects through employment. It’s just a ruse to sink the govt. and drown it in the bathtub as Grover Nordquist put it. It’d be okay if it worked but I don’t think it can fly…just imagine how it would happen? And since major economists are poking holes in it…we’ll see.
Home builders (if they did it legitimately but they’d say they were ‘used’ and not taxable
Yeah, the banks and appraisers would go along with that, I’m sure.
Yes, I have datadave. This is not some new idea. Again, you are painfully wrong.
How about this plan, then dave. Let’s do away with personal income tax completely, corporations are what make all the money, so let’s just tax them. And instead of trying to determine their profits, which allows for too much wiggle room and shady accountings, let’s make it a real income tax and tax their gross receipts. Take, say 20-25% right off the top. But, being aware of unintended consequences, we don’t want to encourage linear monopolies, so we are only going to tax at the final point of sale, the retail level. Could you go for something like that?
BMoe – That is entirely too simple for him. He cannot get past the idea of seperating taxation from employment. And, being a tax cheat, the only way he can view any system is how he can avoid paying taxes, while calling on everyone else to pay more.
jeesh, i guess you have in for corporations. Ok. let’s just scrap the whole govt. idea. Just shut it down. Basically that’s what’s this is about.
Lemme see. what do people buy anyway? mostly housing, then automobiles, then fuel, education (hmmm taxing the state university’s next….another 23 percent on top of already inflated tuition costs…that’ll keep us poor and ignorant. Another Republican goal. Dick Armey all the way.
I really don’t spend much at big box stores, more at groceries, just tools and such at hd or lowe’es.. Lumber? local stores. So that’d be 23 percent passed on to the customer.
Airlines? need to see my father soon before he dies……but another 23 percent on the ticket. ouch.
“have it in for corporations” how’s that roofer paying his taxes for his services? lemme see, he’s got a special form in his truck? The shingles are taxed at the store but his labor…how’s that taxed for example?
and how do you avoid double taxation. I produce a product that is one product already taxed and then altered for a customer, (taxed again).
btw. VAT value added tax is what the Euros do and it’s similar.
What did I tell you, BMoe? Aggressive ignorance. He has no idea that double taxation would be orders of magnitude better and cheaper than what exists now. He has no idea what the tax burden already is on products, plane tickets, etc … aggressive ignorance combined with willful obtusity is not a recipe for thought.
persuasion is an art that you seem to lack, JD. Imagine how this ‘reform’ will happen especially with the most obscure backbench Republican’s leading it or even with some Democrats. Not one major player is pushing this? why? because we’re in a very conservative country that doesn’t go for radical change such as this idea. They’re right taxes are regressive in this country esp. with the very rich only paying a capital gains tax of 15 percent and little else while middle class folks are getting close to 35+ percent (if property taxes, sales taxes, etc are tacked on). And one has to wonder about the States and local taxes too. Since the Fed’s also subsidize those often.
middle class folks are getting close to 35+ percent (if property taxes, sales taxes, etc are tacked on
Yes, we all know that the “rich folks” have those special cards which make them immune to sales taxes and property taxes.
Do you even read what you’ve written before hitting submit?
well, let’s look at the FAQs:
I’m assuming that would be much like Resale certificates as they are used currently.
What, and give up the element of surprise?
Geez, Maggie, now you’re introducing the “wholesale” business concept. I think that’s shooting a bit high for this particular target (the EU VAT is also levied only at the consumption level – but don’t tell him, he’ll just become more confused).
Still I not getting answers on ‘Services’? how are they taxed? That was a major problem with the local Jeffersonian Republican promoting the same idea. (He is an architect.) Now, when the Plumber fixes the leak in your basement. He buys the pipes and fittings from the retail (or wholesale) outlet. Passes on the costs to you (incl. taxes) But how is his ‘services’ taxed if at all? And same with Hookers, or Roofers, or Lawyers, or Doctors. I want to know. It is in neither the customer’s interest of the provider’s interest to pay the tax….so likely they won’t. Huge tax evasion issue as our economy is based on mostly services, not ‘things’.
or (not of)
It is a fucking imbecile. dataless – I am not trying to change youe mind. I am pointing out the mistake and lies you spew due to lack of information. desire to lie, or just good old fashioned stooopidity. Comparing capital gains tax rates to payroll tax rates in an attempt to show the idle rich do not pay enough is dishonesty of the highest order. Who the fuck do you thinks pays the vast majority of taxes in our current system? Rich, middle class, or poor? I will give you 2 hints – it is not the middle class, and not the poor.
Maggie reads the FAQs so dd doesn’t have to. mmmmm, lazy Sunday afternoon.
Since dataless would cheat, the system must be flawed.
ah, here’s the scam: Reading the PDF at http://www.fairtax.org/site/DocServer/TheFairTaxReducesComplexityComplianceCostsAndNoncomplian.pdf?docID=601
you get this doosie: ‘Since business-to-business transactions are totally exempt, businesses that serve other businesses would neither collect nor pay taxes.”
oh, yeah. got that one. Just anybody can start up a ‘business’ doing anything legal, and then be tax free. Now the plumber and lawyer and doctor and service each other and not pay taxes. Except those suckers who didn’t start a little “business”. Hey, I am a business, in the business of eating and breathing (and drinking).
i like that. I go to walmart or the flower shop, show them business card and get the 23 percent off my purchase. Good One! No wonder McCain is against it and Obama and Clinton are above even responding yeah or nay..(at least Obama says it’s in need of further study.) Ron Paul supports it! Yayyyy!
Just anybody can start up a ‘business’ doing anything legal, and then be tax free.
dave, not everyone is a thief, like you.
Really.
Oh, and dave?
What happens when the government says “Hey, you bought all this stuff which you claimed was for resale. Where’s the tax money from the consumer you sold it to?
hey, idiocy, jd. it’s supposed to be a populist idea…not for the rich people to get out of paying taxes.
Yeah, and you support a nanny state sending off prebates EVeRY month to people. Nice one…knowing the people losing their apartments, victims of natural disasters, hippies and illegal aliens wouldn’t get a check as their address might not be permanent.. but they’d still pay full freight on the consumption taxes w/o prebates. (I am sure the GOP will require triplicate proof of residence etc and photo id too…just as in voting.) It’s be just like those ‘rebates’ that require umpteen minutes of time to fill out and if you don’t get in time…suckers!!! Nice smelly scam!
the Rich eh, yeah, sure, they’ll just buy from Europe, Asia more often to avoid consumption taxes. Yupp, good one.
Services? Services?
Services? Services?
Literacy? Literacy?
Good luck convincing the government that the boob job for your wife was a b2b transaction. Unless maybe she’s a porn star.
Face it, dave: the reason you don’t like this idea is because you’re a tax cheat, and you think (rightly) that it would make it harder for you to cheat.
illegal aliens wouldn’t get a check as their address might not be permanent..
Holy shit, I am crying over here! You are too much dave.
illegal aliens wouldn’t get a check as their address might not be permanent..
Wow, I missed that one.
dave, some of us would consider that a feature rather than a bug, since it’d mean the illegals would be paying taxes just like the rest of us. In fact, paying more than the rest of us. That’s probably make some of them stop coming here, dontcha think?
I knew you’d like that one, Spies.
anyway, further reading says ‘services’ won’t be taxed. Only Retail transactions at point of sale of the already puny, low profit margin retail sector. Gosh, darn… a lot of taxes coming from a small part of the economy. And think of how much food will cost. Prebates, yeah sure will be like Bread and Circuses for the Romans… the Bread is the prebate, and the Circuses are the tax-free services. I guess movie actors, sports stars, etc…wouldn’t pay a cent in taxes except when they eat or buy a limo. but the poor store owner would have the weight of the world on his back supporting the rest of us from the taxes he’ll collect from grumpy purchasers of high-priced goods. And think how he’ll resent Craig’s list, and Ebay and the second hand store down the road. The doctor pockets more money, the lawyer does too, but the store owner gets screwed. Is that fair? In case you didn’t know profit margins for grocers are between 1 and 3 percent. Same for gas station owners. A pittance. Sure the bigger retailers will be protected and the little ones will be pushed out. Yeah, Wal-Mart would own the economy as they’d be collecting a lot of taxes…but I think 23 percent is a joke..it’d more like 43 percent to offset the free ride most businesses would have not paying or collecting taxes. The say about 80 percent of businesses would be tax free…but what about the 20 percent that have to carry the whole economy? And Govt. defines and mitigates the economy. W/O govt. no computer revolution (all initial research funded by govt at Ibm, bell, etc.), no defense, no education. It’d be a RonPaulian disaster. And Wal-mart would be the arbitrator of tax policy….kind of like how Russia taxes their people: Vodka taxes! We’d all be sold crappy food because our govt. needs you to eat to pay for the govt. A whole feedback loop of inefficiency and corruption…just like the USSR paid for itself through Vodka taxes.
further reading says ’services’ won’t be taxed
Try reading a little further, dipshit.
The rest of your incoherent screed about “small retailers” doesn’t make sense even on its face, thief.
Neither big nor small retailers pay any taxes. They collect them from consumers. The same amount in both cases.
You understand that the FairTax bill wouldn’t go into effect until the Income Tax is abolished, right? As in the Constitution is amended? That means every LEGITIMATE business in the country would suddenly be free of all income tax, and all the expenses compliance with the current tax code entails? All those expenses are currently embedded in the price of retail goods now dave, and they would be gone. Ask any LEGITIMATE retailers you know, if you do know any, and they will tell you this bill would rock their world. I think spies has it right, you work cash under the table now, and this would make it much harder for you to cheat. Fuck you, thief.
dataless – Go do a little research and find out how much the current level of imbedded tax is on goods. How many layers of taxes are found in a simple retail transaction. This 23 peecent increase crushing the small retailer is the surest sign that you have no even superficially looked at this. Not that it surprises me. TAX THE HOLY HELL OUT OF THE RICH !!!!!!!
and what about the Unicorns and Fairies? You think they’re gonna pay taxes? oh, HELLS no! they’ll be all, we live off of rainbows and dew and baby’s smiles. are YOU going to tax babies? are they going to keep count and fill out forms? and how do you keep them from claiming, “Oh, that was just gas”? Don’t even get me started on orcs.
And Unicorns might not have permanent addresses.
Actually ,dd, the personal computer revolution was started by private individuals. As for the economy; It runs pretty well despite the inter……eh help of the federal government. Do everybody a favor. Don’t ever leave Vermont. They need you there.
What point of collection are there where people are not already employed and/or collecting taxes?
Here’s the problem, dave: You’re an idiot.
I don’t think has connected the dots as far as realizing that the people he so envies and despises are the people that employ his services. Soaking them with higher taxes isn’t going to do a thing for his job security. Work smarter , not harder dave.