Robert Pedersen has a hair curling saga (Jeff’s immune) of Dell “customer support” gratuitous anti-customer violence. Caution: it is a long slog.
If you’ve experienced similar things with Dell, you may wish to go over there and vent for sanity’s sake. I remember in the early days of personal computing the trade mags were full of praise for Dell’s cutting edge designs and dedicated tech support. It’s been a long spiral down to the depths, and perhaps they are going where no bathyspheric excuse for tech support has gone before.
UPDATE: Dell has gotten in touch with Robert and is rectifying the situation. Good thing, too, as critical as the computer is to his preparations for the trek.
Wrong. See followup post, above.
Dell’s award winning customer support had an amazing effect on me back in the mid-1990’s. It motivated me to build my own computing machines. I waited on hold for as much as two hours a clip and made 3 special trips home from work to meet Casper, Dell’s invisible no-show tech guys.
I remember those Dell days well. To achieve lower customer satisfaction numbers Gateway’s techs must have physically assaulted customers.
Dell used to have reasonable (not outstanding, but reasonable) hardware and tech support for a reasonable price — a legitimate market niche.
Now they sell crap hardware and crap support at the same price point. That’s the sort of “make a burnt offering of your brand identity” strategy that Fiorina instituted at HP. You can get away with it for a while, but word eventually gets around.
This isn’t exactly news, although maybe it’s a new experience for the author. Dell’s tech support service went right out the window the second they off-shored it, not an uncommon phenomenon. Same thing has happened to most companys that have off-shored customer server or tech support. I left Earthlink DSL because I had 3 outages that each took 3 days to resolve. In each case I had troubleshot and diagnosed the problem but could not get the Indian (subcontinental) tech support people to deviate from their preprogrammed script and go right to the point of the problem. Dumped them like a hot rock and went over to Speakeasy who, at the time, had tech support people that would listen to me and noticed that I was in the business, could sling the lingo and had already performed all of the steps to equipment I could access before calling in. Sadly they’ve gone downhill as well and customer service has suffered (although not off-shored, in fairness to balance of the point) and I finally got sick enough that I’ve stopped running my own Internet servers and moved over to Comcast cable for the speed.
Yay for my APPL stock.
Yay for my APPL stock.
Indeed. The educational institution where I work is in the process of switching from Dell to dual-boot iMacs for the student labs.
Hmm, I’ve had pretty good luck with Dell, ever since I made one of their tech support goons cry.
I’m told my customer file has a notation that says, “Give this guy what he wants – he knows more about computers than anyone in Dell tech support, including you.”
Now I call them, tell them what I need, and they send it – none of the “follow the script” crap for me!
Of course, it’s been two years since I bought anything from them.
The last three assembled computers I bought were two MacBook Pros and a Mac Mini, all for relatives.
Myself, I roll my own desktops, and just keep a couple of recycled laptops (one IBM, one Dell) for when I need portability.
The first Dell I used was the best. It had scsi,lots of mem, and would outrun the newer Pentiums for most things. Downhill ever since.
For Whom the Dell Blows?
WHOA!
I have been patiently waiting for when I could sock away enough dough to get a nive Dell. The last I had heard (around 2001) was that Dell had the absolute best customer service. I heard this through a friend of mine who was one of Dell’s go to guys for in home service, and he raved about how good they were.
I certainly am glad you posted this, Dan (I looked twicw this time). I guess I need to be doing a little research.
It sounds like Mac is the way to go, but I dread having to learn a whole new operating system. XP (from a 98 system)was enough of a hassle for a non-geek like me. I still can’t fix stuff with XP that had become a snap on 98.
Oh well….
Lost Dog,
Apple, nowadays, is a rational alternative if you don’t mind spending a bit of extra money. The bit about learning a new operating system is moot — you won’t be able to buy anything new without Vista, which shares the Windows name, the Windows bugs, and not much else. OSX is no more difficult, and may be a bit less so.
The tradeoff is this: virtually everything you try on the Apple just works. Rigid control of the hardware, as Apple maintains, results in many fewer compromises and a more-level playing field for software developers. BUT if something doesn’t work, the sane approach for anyone not a hardcore geek is to simply abandon the attempt. The learning curve is a vertical cliff. Fortunately that barrier is well beyond what 99% of all computer users will ever go.
Regards,
Ric
Thank you Dan for linking to the post. I paid for the Dell premium 5 year NEXT DAY (including nights and weekends)in-home warranty repair service. Things have gotten much worse even after Dell took their initial dive after moving their support “off-shore”. I didn’t think it could get worse than what I had to deal with my Dell XPS (now in computer heaven) a couple years ago.
At the rate Dell is moving – one day after my 5 year warranty expires on this laptop the in-home repair technician will probably show up. It is coming close to one month with no phone call from any repair technician. 37 different contacts with Dell Support (phone, fax, email & chat), a Certified letter to the CEO of Dell, a total of 29 total hours interacting directly with Dell on the same unresolved issue, etc. Some of their responses are simply insane and it makes me think they can’t read their own case notes. I love how they keep telling me to not worry and that someone will call me.
Things have gotten MUCH worse than their initial fall from moving overseas. They must make their repair technicians walk all the way from India. Does anyone have suggestions on how I can take this further to resolve this? If you take the time to read this (I know it is long…sorry)there is no possible excuse for how they are treating me. There are probably many more customers who just flat out give up.
Next time you buy a laptop try finding a reliable local technician who can give you the support you need. It sounds to me like the five year plan you bought was just that. Computer technology runs well ahead of that time cycle.
My own tech support hell, albeit from ATT
Ric Locke convinced me to go with an Apple in the future and I never thought I would ever go with Apple because of my lack of knowledge in their OS.
In order for Dell to pay for the labor, new motherboard and video card THEY must select a tech in your area to complete the repair.
Mr. Pedersen: You’re looking at this the wrong way. You view it as a customer service issue that Dell should address. Dell does not view it this way at all.
This is not a problem for Dell, it’s their deliberate business model. This is how Dell makes a profit.
Their hardware, especially laptops, has a ridiculously high failure rate because they use the absolute cheapest components. Everybody knows this so they buy the service contracts. But, Dell loses money if it fixes your computer and loses even more if it has to send a technician so they do everything they can to avoid it.
Sounds stupid, because they’ll piss people off and lose customers, right? Not really, because individual consumers are not Dell’s customers. Dell only cares about the IT managers in businesses who buy their machines in bulk. They in turn require individual employees to get Dells for themselves if they want any IT support from work, so Dell’s customer base is locked in.
No individual should ever buy a Dell. You have been warned.
Unfortunately, this is the business model for the two largest suppliers in this area – Dell and HP/Compaq. I’d stay away from them, at least for laptops.
IBM used to be king of the laptops (at least for me), but the T-series was the last I’ve worked with and it’s “Lenovo” now anyway (like they spun their printer business off as Lexmark). I’m not sure who’s the best now.
Dell desktops have always been solid for me, except for the power supplies, which are beneath crap. The old joke was you’d buy a Dell and an Antec (for example) power supply, and as long as the PS arrived within a week of the PC you were probably okay.
A lot of people should be buying Macs – but it’s looking more and more like Apple will have less control over the hardware as time goes by, with a consequent drop in reliability. Also dittos on the “can’t work on it yourself” thing, they made the interface absurdly simple and everything behind it absurdly complex. It’s a little easier if you’re familiar (any by familiar I mean expert) with Unix, because that’s what’s behind the interface – mostly.
Also be aware that, despite the protestations of the Mac crowd, they’re still a small percentage of the market, there’s less software available (though that’s improved dramatically), and there are still hardware, software, and network incompatibilities to deal with.
That being said, I still recommend Macs to most non-techies, unless you need to go cheap – PCs are still cheaper. Or unless you intend to do any gaming.
Finally, external tech support, as jobs go, sucks ass. It tends to retain not the technically able, but people who don’t care about stress. So the fact that the phone techs are idiots and don’t care is more a feature and less a bug.
That being said, I have some difficulty imagining buying a 5-year service contract on any computer equipment other than network servers – I wouldn’t keep a commercial PC that long for a variety of reasons. My homebuilt stuff ages better because it tends to be more cutting-edge when it’s built…. but then, there’s no warranty on that. :)
Actually, the Lenovo laptops aren’t bad. They tend not to be IBM-bulletproof, but a good bit better than HP or Dell. If you must stay with Windows, I would recommend trying to hunt down somebody like the guy I buy computers from — he buys up the castoffs when IT managers replace everything at one fell swoop, then retails them out. It has been my experience that a computer, laptop or desktop, which lasts a year in service will last a long time after that, and if you can find a year-old laptop, IBM/Lenovo or Japanese, with XP Pro on it, it will give you good service for a good while.
I can endorse Techie’s advice without reservation. Institutions, businesses, etc. can buy Dell; they’re cheap, and technical support is actually available to large customers. Individuals should avoid them unless issued by the Company. And Merovign is correct, too — buying anything associated with computers that has a five-year time frame is foolishness.
As I said, the problem with Apple (beyond price) is The Wall. Nonexperts should not go messing around in the guts of OS/X (or Unix/Linux/etc.). If the software support you need is available, which means nothing outside the mainstream of web browsers, spreadsheets, and word processing except for working with images, at which the Mac has always excelled, having an Apple means that you are unlikely to have problems, but if you do have a problem it’s likely to be insoluble without expert (and expensive) help.
Regards,
Ric
I too want to add to the “get a Mac” chorus. Apple does value individual customers and has a very good system set up to cater to them. You can walk into a store and talk to a highly trained technician whose only job is to solve your problem. Dell’s support people are paid to get you to shut up and go away.
Apple does not sell cheap machines. Their components are high quality and their smaller product line gives them a great deal of control. (Which I expect they’ll continue to have in the future. ? to Merovign on that issue; I disagree.)
I’ve helped a lot of Windows>Mac switchers over the years, and learning the new OS usually goes like this:
First couple days: %$&* Mac sucks! Why can’t I do XYZ like on my PC?
(My answer: Windows PCs are machines. Macs are people. I know this sounds strange but once you get it that the Mac does things like a person would, it all falls into place. You work for Windows but the Mac works for you.)
Two weeks in: I wish I would have switched a long time ago.
There is a lot of extremely high quality software available for Macs. Many titles are far superior to anything available on the Windows platform but there are a lot of proprietary corporate apps that won’t run on OS X. You can install Windows in a virtual machine using Parallels or VMWare Fusion, or boot directly into it via Boot Camp (I recommend this for serious gaming and not much else).
You can install Windows in a virtual machine using Parallels or VMWare Fusion, or boot directly into it via Boot Camp (I recommend this for serious gaming and not much else).
I’ve used both, but VMWare Fusion gets my vote at present. The nice thing about that is that it give you access to a huge library of downloadable virtual appliances (mostly Linux-based).
Also, I recommend installing XP rather than Vista. The newer Macs are quite speedy, but they’re not magic. Vista run just as well as it does on any other machine (i.e., it will suck ass).
I’m not very happy with my Mac. It locks up all the time, I already had to replace the battery, and after years of Windows, the OS is not the least bit intuitive to me.
Oh. I have always had Dells but this time I’m building my own one. Dell ones are really hard to work with as far as upgrading and expanding. I thought it might even be cheaper but I think since I’m doing it part by part I’m probably not compromising as much as I would doing the configuration at the Dell site. Still, it’s gonna be sweet I think. Lots of people around me this year have hit the Dell Outlet for refurbished ones though and all of them are pretty happy so far.
MayBee: if it locks up all the time, something is wrong with it.
What are you usually doing when it locks up?
I’ve been thinking about getting a Mac for mom though, since she doesn’t really touch the Dell she’s got. If you were not very computer friendly and not at all habituated to a PC is a Mac easier to dive right into? I’ve heard it is but mostly from people who already know computers really well. This would be different, and I wonder if the difference is great enough to make it a worthwhile experiment.
Happyfeet, hitting the Dell outlet is often a good idea provided that you get an aftermarket power supply — Dell units suck wind. You do have to make sure you know the pinout of the power connector. Dell is famous for rearranging things more or less at random.
As I said above: a used computer is often a very good idea, so long as you don’t really need the absolute latest bleeding-edge stuff. “Burn-in” is one of the techniques used to achieve high reliability, and a computer that has been used for a year or so without failing is likely to last a long time.
MayBee, pay attention to Techie and SBP. I haven’t made the migration myself, but watching others I’d have to say Techie is absolutely correct about changing from Windows to OS/X, and the change from XP to Vista is likely to be just as traumatic. And if your Apple computer is locking up there is something serious wrong. I know people who’ve had Macs for years and have never turned them off, let alone had to reboot after a lockup — and they weren’t running trivial software, either. It is time to take it to the Apple store and get one of their techs to try to duplicate the problem. Unlike most, Apple is still reasonably serious about customer support.
I don’t actually like Apple; I consider them a bunch of arrogant a*holes. But Vista, Dell, and HP have gotten notably worse while Apple stayed the same or improved a bit, and nowadays for a non-technofreak Apple is probably the best choice, or at least the least bad.
Regards,
Ric
I wonder if perhaps MayBee is running into incompatibilities between websites and whatever browser she’s using.
. It is time to take it to the Apple store and get one of their techs to try to duplicate the problem. Unlike most, Apple is still reasonably serious about customer support.
Thanks, Ric. I’ve actually been in and they were able to fix it so that at least I could reboot after it had locked up. It’s a lemon, but I don’t use it for anything important so I just deal with it as is.
Oh, SBP- I don’t do much with it. I locks up when I’m on the internet, sometimes it locks up when I open it up, and often it locks up when I’m watching a DVD. I hate it when it does that to me in the middle of my workout.
If it’s locking up in several different applications, it sounds like a hardware problem of some kind. Could also be a software problem in one of the daemons which run in the background, I suppose.
I’d take it back in if I were you.
It’s definitely not normal for a Mac to hard lock and require a reboot on any kind of regular basis. I think it’s been at least a year since I had to reboot any of ours (other than for OS updates, of course).
Techie – you are correct I was looking at this the wrong way. Reality is hard to accept sometimes.
I’d hate the large builders a little less if they’d stop putting proprietary motherboards into their systems. I think my last Dell (or was it Gateway? They’re all starting to blur together) I elected to scrap-heap rather than repair, because to repair it would have meant that I had to buy the vendor’s motherboard, at monopoly prices.
Yes, I know. Feature.
I’d build my own, now, but a prebuilt machine is dirt-cheap these days. My time is worth more than the small chunk of change I’d save by slapping it together myself.
Plus, I’m afraid I’d screw it up bigtime. I don’t have much ready cash to invest in learning by my mistakes.
Vista has some cool features that I’d like to see work at some point, but for the time being I shudder to think of having to buy a new machine sporting the Vista banner.
You know, I must be one of those at the extreme edge of the Bell (or is that Dell) curve. I don’t know if you think this is good or not, but over the 3 years warranty period, Dell has replaced;
1 fried motherboard due to lightning
2 fried internal modems due to lightning (last one was a PCI card)
1 blown monitor
1 RAM board (yes, like it or not, it’s still an IC board)
all within the next-business-day guarantee.
I’m still running that old beast of a machine. Vintage 1998. Runs XP just fine.
My latest Dell desktop was a Dimension E520, and with a judicious increase of 1GB RAM, it runs Vista just fine too. Mostly. The Vostro 1000 wasn’t too bad either – my Dad is running it as a standard user and he’s fairly happy.
Then again, I’m staying in Malaysia, where they’ve outsourced most of their support to. So maybe this plays a part. But Dell also provided me two (2!) copies of Vista Business for free! So I’m not complaining much.
The Decline in quality of Dell’s tech support is basically a profit margin issue. Circa 2000, a 10-20 GIG machine cost around $2000-3000. I recall it being a big deal in 2001 when the IT guy at work upgraded my hard drive to 40 GIG so my number crunching wouldn’t crash the machine. Today, you can get a 300 GIG machine for $500. These figures are rough ballpark estimates. Much better machine for the customer, much lower profit for the manufacturer. Capitalism at work.
Dell decided that their profit margin on their computers was too low to support a lot of tech support. Three years ago I bought a refurbished Dell with a three year tech support contract. I had a question for Dell, and did not yet have Internet connection, so I called Dell. I waited FIFTY EIGHT MINUTES on a Friday night to speak with a representative. The representative was competent. I saved myself ~$200 by later canceling the tech support contract.
I haven’t had any complaints with the Dell machine, so I haven’t needed the tech support contract. I have bought some inexpensive hardware upgrades. The Dell manual has been the most helpful in figuring out how to do things. I hope the machine lasts until Vista is replaced.
Any of you Macaholics know what a flashing question mark means on a PPC Mac Mini? As in, it boots to a gray screen with a folder that alternates a question mark and a mocking little happy face?
And/or how to fix it?
This whole thread is so depressing..
I’ve owned 3 DELLs over the last 10 years.. They’ve been excellent.. had a tech out one time.. Early HD death.. No hassle getting him sent out.. he popped in a new Hd and everything was fine.
This last time round, though, I did have to call their tech support and was disappointed to get a foreigner (Indian I believe) working from a script..
Sounds like Dell has jumped the shark in search of the low dollar pricepoint.. have you checked their pricing? They’re selling full feature Pcs for less than the cost of an XBox 360… As for me I’d gladly pay a higher price point for a return to the quality and dependabilty they offered in years gone by..
So computer guys, other that demigod Apple.. who’s good now? I mean in the Windows based PC market.. Who’s taken up the ‘quality’ niche now that Dell has moved on to HP land?
What was a bad sign was when they bought Alienware. Alienware specializes in redefining the boundaries of shitty customer service.
To be fair it’s like Microsoft a lot want to drive American PC makers out of business. They make high-end computer manufacture really really a lot harder than it should be. This is because Microsoft is fags.
It’s almost gotten to the point where the only sensible alternative is to build your own, Ourobouros. Things are standardized enough that if you can hook up a surround-sound audio system, chances are you can put a PC together.
Dan,
Thank you again for posting this. Thanks to you and Protein Wisdom Dell’s Corporate Office has been all over my blog post this morning!!
Thanks JiKC.. Builing my own has long been something I’ve anted to do.. The mechanics of it dont intimidate me.. I’ve upgraded all my previous Dells with no problems.. What’s stopped me is that I’ve had to purchase a new OS at retail (a good $100 or so) when it is bundled with even the cheapest pre-made..
Any thoughtson how to get around paying so much for the OS? Can (or do) the board manufacturers sell the OS bundled or preistalled on the MB?
Which brings up another issue.. Anyone had particularly good (or bad) experiences with any specific computer motherboard /parts distributers?
No preinstalled OS really. But if you design a good system it for sure can get amortized over a longer period. Except for that Microsoft inflicted Vista on the world so now what do you do. God they’re a malicious little company.
Oh. Do *not* get the latest and greatest newest motherboard. This is what I’m going with, and it’s as edgey as I’m comfortable with really but still has a lot of the niftyness that makes the whole thing a lot easier.
Who pays for an OS, when there are so many great free linux distributions about?
I, personally, prefer openSUSE, but Ubuntu and Fedora are both fine, too.
I’m also scrounging Windows licenses (and media), but only because I run them as guest appliances under VMware…
“If you blog, they will come.”
Dell apparently has customer service people surfing the ‘net looking for people talking smack about them on blogs. They found me that way and suddenly I have a very solicitous and helpful Dell representative emailing me until the problem was resolved.
Actually, I “had” a Dell rep. Whatever
Linux ain’t an option for me.. I’m mostly looking to be prepared when Blizzard’s new Diablo III hits the market.. That and speeding up my porn downloads and a few comments here are all I need. typical white guy stuff..
That NVidia board does look sweet, HF
I’ve seen several machines with that one that have turned out really nice. But I was warned off the 790.
It’s strange to read all of the comments above. I’ve been running Dell Desktops for 12 years, mostly at work, and we’ve had great success with them. The one I’m running now (Dimension 8400) has never had a problem in three years, which is freaky.
However I did have to call tech support about 2 years ago for a minor issue unrelated to hardware and talked to Abdul in Pakistan, I think (he kept calling me “Mr. Brian” which, for some reason, pissed me off.) He managed to resolve the issue but not in the fabulous short time I was used to from the late 90’s and early 00’s.
Late 90’s, working from home, a monitor blew up on me as I was booting up (it was pretty cool, creating a mushroom cloud after a loud *snap*. I had a new monitor the next morning and used that box to send the old one back, will call.
Despite my lack of bad experience, I’ve been hearing too many stories lately about bad customer service/Tech support from Dell. I suspect it may be time to move on.
Ourobouros, sometimes you can get a decent, though not screaming and definitely not free, deal if you buy the OS bundled with certain hardware at Newegg.com. Silly name, but they’re a good outfit with good prices, in my experience.
Another option would be that MS sells Windows pretty cheaply to teachers and students, I believe, so if you know any of those they may be able to hook you up.
Or you can do what a lot of people do and get it from work. I’m not really advocating piracy; a lot of companies have enterprise agreements under which they will happily provide a license to people asked to work at home.
Oh. I gets all my thingers from Newegg.
I get all my parts from zipzoomfly.com. I have put together 4 computers so far since 1998. The only PC-clone I own that I didn’t put together is my dell laptop. After a year it still works with no issues. Fingers crossed.
My only hardware failures have been an old video card that died after 6 years of use, one new video card that failed after a week or so, and numerous Maxtor hard drives (I should’ve learned after the first few failures). After getting replacement Maxtor drives that failed after a few months, I gave up and moved to Western Digital. Eventually I threw the maxtors in the trash.
Thanks! I’ve heard Newegg several times now… I’ll check them out.
#Comment by Jim in KC on 5/5 @ 6:14 am #
Any of you Macaholics know what a flashing question mark means on a PPC Mac Mini? As in, it boots to a gray screen with a folder that alternates a question mark and a mocking little happy face?
And/or how to fix it?
Jim, that means it’s looking for a system folder to boot up with. you should be able to boot up with the system dvd in the dvd drive and use the hard drive tool on the dvd to see what’s wrong with your hard drive and why it can’t find a system folder. and of course you do have a separate hard drive with your important data backed up, right? :)
The only alternatives to Dell and HP that I’ve seen suggested here are to build your own PC or to buy a Mac. There are lots of people who do not have the skills to build a PC, so does anybody have other recommendations?