My thought? Cheney ought to wear more bling. (h/t Breitbart)
Here’s a Hillary proposal I can dig (getting rid of the mandatory minimum).
Search
Archive Calendar
| M | T | W | T | F | S | S |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | ||||
| 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 |
| 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 |
| 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | |
Archives
Categories
- A Government That Can Force You to Buy Health Insurance Can Make You Do Anything (3)
- a protein wisdom philosophy primer (3)
- academics (25)
- armadillo (8)
- Friday Fiction 100 Word Challenge (51)
- from the protein wisdom conceptual series (136)
- identity politics (33)
- If Republicans Win the Senate in 2014 (1)
- in which celebraties comment on current events (67)
- language / intentionalism (88)
- legal (6)
- My brief conversations with inanimate objects (130)
- NSA / FISA (46)
- One Term to Serve, the 2012 Revival (6)
- Overheard in a Fallujah bunker (27)
- Poems from 196x, Revised by the Ghost of Richard Brauti (27)
- protein wisdom's DNC coverage (30)
- protein wisdom's RNC coverage (29)
- protein wisdom: the movie Lists (20)
- Provocateurism (16)
- real-time empirical observations (51)
- red pills found behind the sofa cushions (42)
- Scenes from my driveway (61)
- Talking back to 80s music (41)
- The Martha Stewart Chronicles (58)
- The protein wisdom interviews (10)
- The protein wisdom original poems (142)
- Uncategorized (20,046)
- Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, abridged (34)
Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- In The Mailbox: 07.18.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
It’s an interesting discussion, but one that’s is all but irrelevant in this cycle with BO as the likely Dem nominee. Maverick will do a little Kempian campaigning for the free media and to help mushy moderates feel less RACIST about voting for him, but that’s about the max this year.
It’s a vicious circle. To make inroads with the black community (and here I am generalizing as I do in my more poli sci posts; I would prefer to end identity politics), the GOP would need an extended longitudinal outreach program spanning several election cycles (and offyears), making the case — for example — that generations of blacks fall behind in part because of the lousy school systems run by Democrat machines. Of course, the GOP is hard-pressed to do that, in no small part because the black vote is so thoroughly a captive of those big city machines; it’s a lot of effort for a long-shot reward. Thus, the circle.
Yeah, but how about the Cheney bling idea?
Nothing.
So why bother?
Karl,
I would think that one would have to first identify people through location inside or outside the Prog Plantations. The entire purpose of the Democrat segregation program is to effectively marginalize any effort that Republicans might make towards gaining market share. There is also the matter of the extraordinarily low reward potential for any effort made. The Prog Plantations are (for the most part) located in very blue states. What’s the net gain for swinging a few votes in NY or IL? I don’t see the game as being worth the candle. I’ll run up a spreadsheet for you on the Prog Plantations if you’d like. I’ve eyeballed census data on about 20 of them and from that sample I’d say that better than half of the blacks in the US are “enjoying” plantation life. Inroads are certainly possible within the other half but investment in Hispanic outreach has a much better potential payoff. There are only a few Hispanic Prog Plantations. So far.
What, pander to the “God DAMN! America” crowd?
Forget it. Best write them off and concentrate on the new up-and-coming Latino minority.
The very concept of what government is and what its role is will have to change radically for one group or the other.
One of the biggest concerns of the black community is the number of young black males who end up in prison. That is a direct result of the blackmarket trade in drugs. Legalizing the drug trade would end a lot of the violence in the black community, and drastically reduce the number of black men being sent to prison.
At the same time, though, I think alternatives to trade in drugs should be provided by opening the economy up to small time entrepreneurs. At the same time that drug prohibition has made the drug trade so lucrative, government regulation has closed the door on small scale businesses.
In other words, if liberalizing Iraq looks like a good way to end ethnic strife, maybe we could try the same thing over here.
If, by interesting, you mean like a car wreck, then, I agree. Watching a bunch of people have a conversation with their assumptions rather than each other is interesting. Sometimes.
What, pander to the “God DAMN! America†crowd?
Case in point.
At this point I don’t think its an issue. Either Senator Obama wins (almost certain) and blacks will vote for him, or Senator Clinton wins and they stay home. I really don’t know what the GOP can hope to do, it appears to me that blacks have been lied to so long about Republicans they are unreachable.
dear Ardsgaine,
It might help to have a culture update whereby studying and doing well in school isn’t considered “acting white.” Etc. (For large values of “Etc.”)
I really do think Democrat party policies have sunk American blacks beyond any possible redemption. Take, for easmple, Obama’s wife. She earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but until recently has felt no reason to be proud of this country. Her minister rants and raves about the evils of America, and not only does her husband chime in to defend him, but large numbers of American blacks come forward to say that you can here much the same in any black church, any Sunday, anywhere in America.
Democrats have been telling American blacks *for* *decades* that they needed set-asides, special protections, affirmative action, to get ahead. Well, black America has take the lesson and run with it. And no amount of drug legalization is going to reduce the pathological results. In fact, drug legalization might only hasten the mass suicide.
A rare honest Democrat, Daniel Patrick Moynihan (formerly D-NY, now spinning in the grave over which Hillary squats), had much to say about this.
Oh, the chickens that are obviously coming home to roost, this election time.
Patrick
—
Dear baldilocks,
I apologize for the broad brush. Something about the 95% giving the other 5% a bad name, don’t you know.
Patrick
—
Er, that was me up there.
One of the biggest concerns of the black community is the number of young black males who end up in prison. That is a direct result of the blackmarket trade in drugs.
Actually it’s a direct result of the Great Fatherless Society created by the Welfare State–a progeny of the Democrat Party.
I apologize for the broad brush. Something about the 95% giving the other 5% a bad name, don’t you know.
95% of Americans who are black are saying “God Damn America?” That’s news to me.
BTW, most Obama voters of any race knew nothing about Rev. Wright, his views or Black Liberation Theology until recently.
Dear baldilocks,
OK, I was being flip. Nonetheless, I’ll bite: So, what are the percentages?
For myself, I saw what looked like unanimous support after Wright’s comments became public. What was that? The herd coming together to protect one of its own? And if so, based on what? Color? Ideology? Or was it an attempt to put a brave face on an utterly indefensible situation?
But really, it doesn’t matter, does it? As long as the public face of America’s blacks is the unctuous race-pimp, the antisemite, the baying hate-America-firster, the shamed Presidetial candidate’s wife, well, the percentages really don’t matter do they?
Oh, and BTW, *this* is an honest discussion about race, not the pap Obama served up when he was throwing his grandmother under the bus.
Patrick
—
I am with Al M and Pat C on this.
There’s no reason to bother with the Black demographic. Completely unreachable. It is sad, but true. Conservative Blacks are Aunt Jemimas & Uncle Toms (Condi, Justice Thomas),
And yes, anytime “being white” means studying hard to get ahead, it is going to be real difficult to convince young fatherless Black children (yes, thank you, compassionate, emotidems for the new form of slavery) to study to become just like “typical white people”… lest they end up looking like Michael Jackson and talking like Al Gore.
Fuck it, go for the Latino vote. Sure it means cozying up to a bunch of Catholics (certainly not of the flavor that Skull and Bones members prefer), but shit… sell conservatism to them and they’ll be like Irish were for generations (“my father, grandfather and his father before him voted democrat, so if it was good enough for him, it’s good enough for me goddammit”).
The Blacks just can’t seem to admit when they’ve been bamboozled. Seriously, they (and again, total broad brush here) are so frigging concerned with posturing and “respet” that they’d rather be chained to a donkey at the botto of an ocean than sitting on an elephant at the crest of a mountain. It’s really fucked up.
What I can tell you is there is nothing… and I mean nothing that any White, Asian, or Hispanic can do for the probs the Black community faces today. It has to come from within their own ranks. And they keep turning to shitheads like Sharpton, Wright, and Jackson. It’s like throwing the baby away with the bathwater. Or, what the hell… it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I would call it juvenile, but then someone might get offended. It is a real shame.
It might help to have a culture update whereby studying and doing well in school isn’t considered “acting white.â€Â
The question was “what can Republicans do,” and I don’t think having a bunch of white guys wagging their fingers at blacks is going to help the situation. Bill Cosby can and has undertaken that mission, and I’ve noticed that the black members of his audience nod their heads and say “heard that.” I don’t think having McCain do it would have the same effect. Just like I don’t want blacks fussing at me and calling it a conversation, they don’t want us fussing at them and calling it a conversation.
I really do think Democrat party policies have sunk American blacks beyond any possible redemption.
Read that five times and then go think about it for a few hours. Ask yourself what is the implication of what I’m saying?
dammit Pat you beat me to it again! ANTI-PAPIST BIGOT!
Dear Ardsgaine,
We’ve come a long way since “What can you do for your country”, eh?
But I digress, I don’t want Government, or political parties, doing anything for me, apart from keeping the borders secure, punishing criminals, and maintaining relations with foreign governments. I’ll shift for myself, thank you very much.
I object to the very premise of t he question, so I can;’t be bothered to address the question itself.
Patrick
—
Jayzus, Enoch, we’re in fair form today!
How was you latest Atlantic crossing? Irenic?
Ards – I hear that – the dems have essentially castrated the Dr. MLK image of what a respectable black man “looked like”. I think it will be impossible for them to reclaim what has been belittled and lost… the Black father of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s may have been poor and truly under the thumb of a horrible systemic yoke. But they were often men who didn’t let being poor and “underprivileged” get in the way of real dignity of self. When I was growing up, I had my pop to pattern myself after… as a husband and father. Who the hell do these young black men and women have to look up to?
Baldilocks – I think the 95% he was referring to (I think) was to percentage that votes Democratic. I don’t believe he meant to imply 95% agree with Wright.
The Dems have done a rather good job of promoting their brand name to blacks. I think many wouldn’t even consider voting for a Republican. I don’t know what goes on in all-black society – what type of conversations occur out of the hearing of whites – but I have heard such things that Republicans were going to take away the black vote. That was during the last election, and my husband overheard the conversation between two black women.
Living in Detroit, I got some of the NAACP mailers — suggesting that Rethuglians were going to bring back the dogs to attack blacks as they approached the voting booth.
It was very frustrating. Especially many blacks that I’ve done share similar feeling regarding many issues. Many, imho, are actually conservative … they just don’t know it, or refuse to admit it. I wonder if being Republican, like joining the chess club, is another form of “acting white.”
Pat C – I believe you are familiar with Enoch “the Red” then, eh? I only wish I was 1/8th as cool as that immortal bastard!
The herd coming together to protect one of its own?
You hit the nail on the head.
And if so, based on what? Color? Ideology?History, for good or ill.
But really, it doesn’t matter, does it?
Of course it matters. We have to live together and survive.
As long as the public face of America’s blacks is the unctuous race-pimp, the antisemite, the baying hate-America-firster, the shamed Presidetial candidate’s wife, well, the percentages really don’t matter do they?
See above answer.
Oh, and BTW, *this* is an honest discussion about race, not the pap Obama served up when he was throwing his grandmother under the bus.If you knew me, you wouldn’t have bothered with this.
Actually, like everyone else, I’ve been writing about Obama–Sower of Discord–quite a bit. About his vacant character. I think his allegiance to Wright and this “theology” is a decoy from…something.
But with the intro of the loathsome but basically toothless BLT, both black and white narcissism are in play and egos are at stake so there will be more discord.
I may explain more later here. I’ve been composing a post on this for about a week and will drop some stuff here if necessary.
Ah, jayzus, wouldja just lukit the time. Four PM after a long week of slaving away in front of a hot Java compiler, a hotter Tomcat, and a while-hot, gerbil-powered proprietary EJB container (BEA, I’m looking at you!).
I’m away to Meehans for a gallon or two of Sweetwater 420.
I don’t want Government, or political parties, doing anything for me
Nothing that I suggested was in the way of a handout. It is laissez-faire, which is French for “leave us the fuck alone.” We have the same situation now that we had during Prohibition when the Mafia was killing people over market share for alcohol sales. Have you heard of anyone being murdered lately because they were buying alcohol from the wrong guy? The violence in the drug trade is a direct result of it being illegal. Legalize it, and that violence will go away. Legalize it, and there will be far fewer young men of either color in jail. Legalize it, and the tension between blacks and the police will be drastically reduced. Legalize it, and we won’t have to pay to keep men incarcerated just because they were selling or using a substance we disapprove of.
And yes, anytime “being white†means studying hard to get ahead, it is going to be real difficult to convince young fatherless Black children (yes, thank you, compassionate, emotidems for the new form of slavery) to study to become just like “typical white peopleâ€Â… lest they end up looking like Michael Jackson and talking like Al Gore.
Fuck it, go for the Latino vote.
:::laughing at people who call themselves conservatives who want to go for an Identity Politics vote:::
In the last city council election, here in Atlanta, the Democrat party ran an ad featuring John Lewis, Shirley Franklin, and Andrew Young, indicating that a vote for the Republican was a vote to bring back water canon and attack dogs.
Thanks. I’d forgotten about that. I’m narcissistic that way.
Actually it’s a direct result of the Great Fatherless Society created by the Welfare State–a progeny of the Democrat Party.
Absolutely. The problem is getting the black community to grok this, and how the Democrats consistently work against nearly every policy and idea (like school choice) that especially poor blacks want (and poor whites, poor asians, etc). In general, blacks in the US still seem to be socially more conservative than the Democratic party – particularly regarding gays. Yet they consistently side with the party that disagrees with them over and over because they so often have bought the lie that the GOP is full of bigots, rich fat cats, and The Man.
The sooner the entirety of America sees through the lies in both political parties – the legacy media does its best to help see through GOP lies – the better we’ll all be. The average voter, black, white, green or puce should be all thinking “us against them” referring to the people vs the government. That’s what unites the states, and that’s what the left has so effectively eliminated from American culture.
Baldilocks – look: I dont give a crap about race. What I do find interesting, however, is that between the two dem candidates their platforms are 99% the same. But when you consider the overwhelming support for Barack in the Black community, I can only assume it is so, because: 1) he is Black, 2) he is a man, 3) Blacks don’t like Clintons. I distinctly recall how supportive Blacks were of the Clintons. Not a thing they could do wrong back in the day. So, let’s eliminate #3 as a possibility. I know this analysis is crude. That leaves 1 or 2. Either supporting a candidate based on color (rather than content of character… we do celebrate MLK day, right?) or because he is not (despite his 37 in PA) a woman.
Of course, I think the same thing is occurring with women dems. And I find it entertaining, but surely not surprising, that this type of crap could only occur in the land of the latte libs. Conservatives, by and large, just don’t give a shit about color.
Living in Detroit, I got some of the NAACP mailers  suggesting that Rethuglians were going to bring back the dogs to attack blacks as they approached the voting booth.‘
I guess they didn’t bother to mention that it was Democrats who were behind those concepts?
And they keep turning to shitheads like Sharpton, Wright, and Jackson.
You’re having a conversation with your assumptions, sir.
BTW, the prominence of both Jackson and Sharpton are the fault of corporations which have allowed themselves to be shaken down by these two and the fault of media entities–like Fox News–who put microphones under them.
And Wright’s church has 8000 people in it. Not exactly the majority of Americans who are black.
Dear baldilocks,
I just can’t let this discussion go. It’s riveting. I’ve read your blog for years. I count you in the “5%”.
OK, now I’m away.
Patrick
—
[re-post]
And they keep turning to shitheads like Sharpton, Wright, and Jackson.
You’re having a conversation with your assumptions, sir.
BTW, the prominence of both Jackson and Sharpton are the fault of corporations which have allowed themselves to be shaken down by these two and the fault of media entities–like Fox News–who put microphones under them.
And Wright’s church has 8000 people in it. Not exactly the majority of Americans who are black.
RE: crack and drugs like it.
Penalties for
Sale of: First offense shall be a capital crime.
Use: nothing, but no social services outside the context of an in patient drug treatment center, including all health care save emergency and pregnancy.
In the last city council election, here in Atlanta, the Democrat party ran an ad featuring John Lewis, Shirley Franklin, and Andrew Young, indicating that a vote for the Republican was a vote to bring back water canon and attack dogs.
Thanks. I’d forgotten about that. I’m narcissistic that way.
I’ll have a conversation with you, if you want. If you would rather put out non sequiturs, I’ll just watch.
[my html skils suk]
In the last city council election, here in Atlanta, the Democrat party ran an ad featuring John Lewis, Shirley Franklin, and Andrew Young, indicating that a vote for the Republican was a vote to bring back water canon and attack dogs.
Thanks. I’d forgotten about that. I’m narcissistic that way.
I’ll have a conversation with you, if you want. If you would rather put out non sequiturs, I’ll just watch.
Problem solved at a fraction of the cost. in a matter of time crack is a distant memory.
I just can’t let this discussion go. It’s riveting. I’ve read your blog for years.
Me too, Baldilocks is one of my favorite writers online and I love the opportunity to discuss topics, particularly this one with her. This, and the fact that most American Jews vote Democrat, frustrates me no end. It’s not the party I care about, it’s the candidates they offer up – D, R, they’re all politicians and I don’t trust em. The problem is, the Democrats seem to be gleeful about pandering to these groups when looking for power, then ignoring or even defying them when in power. How many times does the Democratic Party have to demonstrate they all but hate Israel before Jews finally work out they probably shouldn’t support them?
I have some hope for younger Jews, who seem to be working out this concept, but I can’t tell with blacks. I know that blacks were by and large moving away from the Democratic party in terms of registration, but they still seem to vote en masse regardless of candidate for the party. Why would anyone do that to themselves? Why does such stupid lies as the ads or having every single @#(*^@$ candidate come preach in a black church WORK??
the prominence of both Jackson and Sharpton are the fault of corporations which have allowed themselves to be shaken down by these two
are you really telling me that this is the reason? I mean it sounds hollow. I know what their tactics are. And I think they are scum. But they couldnt do it without more than tacit approval for those they claim to speak for.
is this a “black thing I wouldn’t understand”? I don’t think so. I may be a Typical Whit Person, but “I ain’t blind and I don’t like what I think I see…”
BTW – Chris – your point about all americans being in opposition to the govt vs being split by the wicked parties is dead on. A thing of beauty, really.
Radical suggestion: what would happen if we greatly reduced the Welfare state?
Yeah, I know. I’m not the first to suggest it. But if, somehow, it happened right now, I don’t think that you would see the unrest some imagine. First of all, the illegals would go home. (It’s the Welfare State which made them necessary in the first place.)
Next…
are you really telling me that this is the reason?
Yes I am. No “black” corporation is lining the pockets of these charlatans. And every time some race issue comes up, someone like O’Reilly, Hannity or Imus. is sticking a microphone under one of them.
is this a “black thing I wouldn’t understand� I don’t think so. I may be a Typical Whit Person, but “I ain’t blind and I don’t like what I think I see…
Say what?
ok – so you’re saying the Black Community is not at all responsible for these pieces of crap?
“Radical suggestion: what would happen if we greatly reduced the Welfare state?”
you have to spell out what you mean, I know that if SS and S8 was cut off tomorrow, people i know would literally starve if not for outside intervention. some have families, some don’t. Some will be picked by a community, Jews, for instance, some presumably would not.
BTW, the prominence of both Jackson and Sharpton are the fault of corporations which have allowed themselves to be shaken down by these two and the fault of media entities–like Fox News–who put microphones under them.
I dunno. The complaints of Sharton and Jackson are often the complaints I hear echoed, by black leaders, in local -Detroit – issues. I can hear the same kind of crap from the usual suspects trotted out in every racial issue. They have networked well, it would appear to me.
just saying I’ve heard this line of “it’s not my/our fault” before.
The welfare state is #1 reasons family structure in the modern world is suffering. People feel, however incorrectly, that it aint neccesary anymore.
One more thing: government is seen as the savior of black Americans. Recall your recent history: Brown v. Board (Judicial), CRA and VRA (Legislative), the Great Fatherless Society (Executive).
The notion of gov’t as remedy against racism is pervasive, but at least one of its remedies has done more harm than good.
silence on the race-baiting, not-our-fault issue?
next…
Peter,
The Welfare State has nearly destroyed the black family and produced children who have no sense of responsibility in any area. Unwed American mothers who used to have to work low end jobs–providing a motivating example to there children–or get married can now have the state as provider–providing a different example. Meanwhile, someone has to work in the restaurants and the hotels—>>>illegals.
I contend that the Welfare State is the new slavery.
there=their
Peter=Patrick
I need more alcohol.
No, they’re partially responsible. But their success and their staying power comes from their ability to shake Whitey down whenever he steps out of line. Especially with a lying thug like Sharpton, there’s really no reason to give him the time of day and yet every time anyone so much as thinks the word race, you’ll find that POS in nearly every public forum, doing his victim dance. That’s the fault of white people mostly, for failing to call a spade a spade.
silence on the race-baiting, not-our-fault issue?
You’re not being terribly coherent.
All us TWPs look alike anyway. Peter, Paul, Patrick… whatever.
RE: crack and drugs like it.
Penalties for
Sale of: First offense shall be a capital crime.
You are hilarious.
I’m reading a book right now called The Opium Wars. What you suggest is similar to what the Emperor of China attempted in order to cut off the opium trade that was devastating his people. Of course, he might have tried taking his foot off their neck, opening up the country to trade in other goods, and creating a free market that would have inspired the people to greater ambition; but he prefered to leave them mired in economic stagnation and execute the ones who found solace in opium. It’s just a good thing that there’s no British Empire around with a two hundred year technological lead on us.
That’s the fault of white people mostly, for failing to call a spade a spade.
See? Now you’re just clownin’.
LOL
African Americans a lot admire their entrepreneurs. Start there. McCain’s love of small business should be a great help here. Maybe he could force small businesses to join his cap-n-trade scheme? Also, let’s endorse lots of national service programs so African American kids thinking of starting a business can get shunted into socialist nonvoluntary activities that benefit the state. Also what would be good is to oppose drilling in ANWR and off the coast so young African-Americans what might start a business won’t get sucked into high-paying oilfield work. Lots of low-hanging fruit really.
Ditto for baldilocks and her writing skills.
I grew up with a tiny taste, being Portuguese in SE Mass, of racism and classism. I had no personal experiences, being on the lighter skinned side of the family, but had cousins who were quite dark and took some grief. Some of you may remember the “Big Dan’s” rape case in New Bedford (they based the Jody Foster Oscar movie “The Accused” on it.) There was enough broad brushing of “da portagees” as demented sex perverts to last a lifetime. I also know that that was a raindrop compared to the river of Black stereotyping.
BTW: The one person in my life who uses more racial language/slurs than anyone else I know is my boss; a Massachusetts Liberal Democrat. Pablo will appreciate that.
I’m thinking more along the lines of providing a consistant flow of positive African American role models like Condi Rice, Bill Cosby, Michael Steele, J.C. Watts etc. in a national campaign to break the cycle of dependency and reinforced hopelessness. Mr T (yep, believe it or not) said something in an interview that has resonated with me over the last several years. He talked about the fact that too many black children are told that they are trapped and/or won’t amount to anything. He framed it as a raceless problem coming from both within and without of the black community. I suppose that we have a choice as conservatives if we are committed to real racial dialogue and a colorless society. We can conceed the narrative to the likes of Wright, Dyson, Sharpton etal. or we can offer an aletrnative of hope based upon something (and someones) other than a welfare line and a halfway house.
This is what makes BLT’s dismissing of “middleclassness” so disturbing and damaging. How much stonger as a country would we be with a vibrant, growing and hopefull black middle to upper class committed to sustained marraiges, interactive fatherhood, and conservative family values? That alone would do more to bridge whatever racial divide exists and benefit the Republican Party in the long run (assuming that the party still stands for conservative principles, which is still up in the air.)
Many of you know that when it comes to certain issues (*cough* religion *cough*) Ardsgaine and I are standing on two different hilltops separated by a glacier. That having been said I’m about to shock him by confessing that I’m seriously starting to consider the possibility of legalizing drugs and transforming how we approach this problem.
That’s right. the evangelical white/brown Christian social con is seriously considering drug legalization. Someone cradle Ardsgaine’s head when he faints.
I’m not there yet but there is no question in my mind that incarcerating 25% (or more and correct me if I’m wrong) of young, black men is not a process designed to achieve positive long term results for either blacks or the rest of the population. I don’t know if full on legalization is the answer but I’ve a strong feeling that we should be doing something different.
This is an interesting and important discussion.
baldilocks – you are slinking away
Yes, it is.
It really isn’t, not in welfare state form. It should be a tiny portion of our public spending, reserved for the tiny percentage who cannot provide for themselves, and not for the much larger percentage who simply won’t.
#
Comment by Enoch_Root on 4/11 @ 2:44 pm #
All us TWPs look alike anyway. Peter, Paul, Patrick… whatever.
Yeah, okay.
I was gonna call him a pimp doing a shuck and jive routine, but I didn’t want to go over the top. ;-)
How can he go away if we won’t ignore him?
Comment by Enoch_Root on 4/11 @ 2:46 pm #
baldilocks – you are slinking away
You’ve apparently missed some of my comments. Try drinking less.
Pablo: I absolutely positively could not believe you wrote that “calling a ” comment to close.
Ards: I see the point with the Chinese example. My one concern is exactly how we manage the health care aspect of free flow market drugs. I haven’t really dug into this but I will.
People feel, however incorrectly, that it — family — aint neccesary anymore.
“What you suggest is similar to what the Emperor of China attempted in order to cut off the opium trade that was devastating his people. Of course, he might have tried taking his foot off their neck, opening up the country to trade in other goods, and creating a free market that would have inspired the people to greater ambition; but he prefered to leave them mired in economic stagnation and execute the ones who found solace in opium. It’s just a good thing that there’s no British Empire around with a two hundred year technological lead on us.”
Of course it’s similar. Otherwise the vacuousness of this challenge would be evident even to you.
baldilocks – likewise.
grumpy. You wants you can has cricket?
Try drinking less.
Yeah, okay.
Understand something, I’m not saying I dislike Blacks or any other group.
What I am saying is (1) I want people who are in favor of small government and self determination in the Republican Party; and (2) trying to win the votes of a group described as “teh Blacks” or “teh Latinos” is not the way to get there. I believe one of the reasons that so many Blacks stay Dem is they’ve bought into the notion of “the Black vote” and communal benefits and so forth. Trying to pull over an ethnic group to your party will do nothing to break up the core problem that afflicts members of that group politically. You’re basically saying, “hey, we want your insular group organized around collective benefits to stand up for the party of individualism.” Short of offering just what the Dems are offering I don’t see that group coming over to the R’s. It’s like trying to get an alcoholic into treatment by trying to lure him out of the bar with booze. I don’t see that approach ending well.
What baldilocks is getting at. (Hi Girl!) is that without the white guilt of Corporations, those types wouldn’t make much money.
Not sure about blaming Hannity, et al for availing themselves of interviews with them, as these clowns regularly have press conferences which are duly attended by the drive-by media. At least Hannity challenges them on their nuttery, unlike their competitors, who treat them like spokesmen for blacks, no questions asked.
Methinks Enoch Root anticipating lack of sleepz lol!
I think that there needs to be a new way of thinking about allocation of resources which take race out of the equation. I think that we were on our way there but the Democrat Party’s embrace of an unvetted candidate like Obama may have set the process back on its a**. To the untrained/lazy eye, he looked like the “new black man.” Now that he has been exposed as the old type, the white people who were fooled are angry–angry that they were fooled. So now some don’t know which black people to trust.
Solution: stop considering blacks as a group and consider each as an individual.
Maybe I shoulda said “Calling a race-baiting gangster pimp a race-baiting gangster pimp.” But the other way was a hell of a lot shorter and the cliche works because we’re so afraid to do it. I’m done with outrage. Let’s just put the cards on the table.
Comment by Enoch_Root on 4/11 @ 3:03 pm #
baldilocks – likewise.My dear, you must be having some problem if you thought I was “slinking away.” If you want to talk with me like an adult, I’d suggest you pay attention. Otherwise, I’d suggest that we politely “shake hands” and ignore each other.
What do you say?
individuals? dontchu know, she’s talkin’ bout a revolution… sounds like a whisper I think.
I”m not certain my idea is a good one — (is that allowed in the blog-sphere? — but it order to determine whether or not it would bear similar results to the Chinese experiment one would have to understand China at that time and America in ours, and then see if the contexts match. You have not done that, nor could you, nor could I. so to discuss the issue we would kind of have to focus on what we think would be the results of such a policy in our current day an age. That would be an interesting discussion.
The whole purpose of the plantation system is to increase dependency upon the state and it works pretty damn well. Trying to cut welfare payments is not politically feasible. It may be feasible to rework eligibility requirements but the political will required to do even that much has been lacking for some time.
We won’t see any serious attempt to break up the plantations until 2018 so the near term tactic should be to encourage people to vote with their feet and get the hell out. That seems to be working in Conyer’s district in MI which has lost over 10% of its population since 2000. It worked in NO too, although it took the help of a hurricane.
The Democrat’s theft of black dignity is one of the worst political crimes ever perpetrated but I don’t see them ever paying for it.
He definitely pulls punches with Sharpton, and O’Reilly doesn’t even throw them. And when Bill, or Imus, gets the racist label hung on them, who do they turn to for absolution? Sharpton.
Why not Larry Elder, Ward Connerly, Herman Cain or any of a million other reasonable, intelligent black men? Or women, even? Why do they promote these pimps and kiss their rings? They perpetuate the problem.
Hi SGT Ted:
Since MLK’s time, all of the MSM have been looking for a “black leader” and, when a vacuum exists, they will anoint the one(s) who shout(s) the loudest. But every time a group of blacks are polled and asked who the “black leader” is, the majority respond by saying that no one is.
Indeed.
Hi Rick Ballard:
Trying to cut welfare payments is not politically feasible.
“You may say that I’m a dreamer. But I’m not the only one.”
The Democrat’s theft of black dignity is one of the worst political crimes ever perpetrated but I don’t see them ever paying for it.Yeah…
A political party lures members either from the self serving standpoint (what are you going to do for me?) or from the priciple/activist position ( I beleive in these things and I’m willing to fight for them.)
As long as the race baiters can play the cards of victimization then blacks will contionue to march lock step to Democratic candidates. Republicans need to focus on demonstrating that the collective principles of conservatism benefit the individual and well as represent a “higher standard” worth embracing, like “middleclassness.”
I’m not suggesting that this will be easy or even effective in the short run but I think it needs to be done and soon. Ignoring the divide is not going to improve it and, with some of the revealations about Obama’s connections with BLT, this may be an opportunity to reach and say “Hey, come join the club.”
Pablo:
[Hannity] definitely pulls punches with Sharpton, and O’Reilly doesn’t even throw them. And when Bill, or Imus, gets the racist label hung on them, who do they turn to for absolution? Sharpton.
The first time I heard AS on Hannity it was a softball job. Haven’t listened to SH since.
Neither Jesse or Al will get near Larry Elder!
That’s right. the evangelical white/brown Christian social con is seriously considering drug legalization. Someone cradle Ardsgaine’s head when he faints.
Ouch. Dammit, BJ, that’s gonna leave a mark!
Ards: I see the point with the Chinese example. My one concern is exactly how we manage the health care aspect of free flow market drugs. I haven’t really dug into this but I will.
My thoughts on that are consistent with my whole laissez-faire premise: get the government out of the healthcare business period. The whole reason that healthcare costs have skyrocketed over the past 40 yrs is because the government has been steadily pumping money into the medical industry. Demand was pushed up way ahead of supply, and the price rose accordingly. Free Market Economics 101. (And since we’re talking about blacks, I strongly recommend reading Robert Williams and Thomas Sowell.)
Beyond the practical benefits, there’s also the moral question. Each person is responsible for his own life, including his healthcare. I have no problem with charitible institutions that accept voluntary contributions, but it is wrong for the government to take money from one person to hand it to another.
That means that drug addicts will have no safety net provided by the government. Family, friends, and charitible institutions will be there for them, but if they spurn that help (which they often do), then the only service they can expect from the government is a ride from the gutter to the graveyard.
I know that sounds harsh, but you can’t keep a person alive against his will, and I don’t see why the rest of society should suffer for the attempt.
Thomas Sowell
My hero. Everyone should read Sowell.
Right. Hannity will ask a couple of tough question, but then let Good Old Al dance right around them without holding his feet to the fire. That way, everybody wins…except society.
Ards: I see the point with the Chinese example.
The Chinese example doesn’t extend to modern times, though. Obviously looking at China isn’t especially helpful. But Hong Kong made Opium illegal and currently has very strict drug laws and a very low-crime society.
Japan has very strict drug laws and a very low crime society.
The idea that strict drug laws are the problem is a non-starter, especially if you want to use international examples.
Al and Jessie gained power because white elite people decided they were the face of the “black community”. It isn’t solely the fault of the corporations that gave into their shake-down ways, they had lot of assistance in shouting down people that opposed their methods.
I don’t really believe in the “black community” any more than I believe in “women’s issues”.
I know and work with black folks, and very few of them fit the National Stereotype of Official Blackness. Many of them are from whole, traditional families, their kids get good grades and go to college, a surprising number like NASCAR and country music. They also go to churches that sound like the ones I went to as a child, except with better music. I think if the Republican Party just gets back on point and stays relatively sane they will have no trouble picking up the vote of these individuals. And I suspect there are a lot more of them out there than most folks realize.
Solution: stop considering blacks as a group and consider each as an individual.
I’d like to. Really I would. But, too often they mobilize as a group (blacks only, please) instead of as individuals.
I’m thinking of a few weeks back where a blogger was calling to all “black female bloggers” to speak out against Sharpton’s attempting to get bail for a bunch of black-thug rapist/attempted murderers.
Why not call out -all bloggers? Was this just an issue for black women to address?
baldilocks – ok, consider yourself ignored. you will note I was speaking to you as an adult. You brushed aside my response because I assume you realized you were doing the not their/our fault dance with respect to the Black Community and their continued support of the “Revs”. that was unbecoming. I pointed out you were incorrect and instead of addressing it, you pulled a “next”, which was asinine. Then when I called you on that, you mentioned I should drink less. Which again is asinine. And if you thought I would be one to star-f*&^ you, you quickly found you were wrong about that.
Now fess up: Blacks have propped up folks like the right “Revs” for far too long, been silent and complicit in the fleecing of their dignity at the hands of the Dems. It’s really, at this point, nobody’s fault but their own. That is, for the incarceration rates, the bastard child rates, the economic disparity and other issues.
I want to be charitable… but, enough is enough. None but themselves can correct. So, I don’t plan on doing much of any “dialogging” about it, because it feels more and more like a one-way conversation with a door knob.
Oh, teh guilt! Only a Typical White Person can understand teh guilt!
I’d like to. Really I would. But, too often they mobilize as a group (blacks only, please) instead of as individuals.
I understand the idea that an individual demands that you treat them as more than one individual. It doesn’t mean that you have to comply.
Fixed that for you.
See, the problem is the whole over-generalizing thing.
BECAUSE OF TEH AUTHENTICITY!!!
Enabling. Look it up. If we (the Dems, if you like) didn’t build a structure that supported irresponsible, dependent behavior, we wouldn’t have it. If you want more of something, pay for it, and we have.
That’s not to say that those who have partaken aren’t at fault because they most certainly are, and they’ve also built a culture that tolerates this status quo and discourages those who seek to reach beyond it. But at this point, I don’t give a damn who’s fault it is, I just want us to fix it. All of us.
You’ve gotten off on the wrong foot with Baldilocks. She is not your enemy.
Republicans need to focus on demonstrating that the collective principles of conservatism benefit the individual and well as represent a “higher standard†worth embracing, like “middleclassness.â€Â
BJ has nailed it. It’s not a matter of pandering, it’s a matter of selling the concept of free markets by showing how it would benefit the black community. Blacks have never had an opportunity to live under a free market system. When the US was as close as it ever came to having a free market, they were excluded by Jim Crow.
There’s no doubt that the concept of individualism is going to be a hard sell in a community that believes its survival depends on group solidarity. That is the real legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, not crime and broken families. That’s where we’re reaping what we sowed. It’s a matter of trust, of feeling safe enought to discard what has seemed to be a lifepreserver. The con-men feed on that residual distrust, and fan it in order to gain power and money. I don’t think we’ll get the mistrust to go away by wagging our finger at it though. We have to convince them that our belief in free markets is based on a desire to benefit ALL citizens as individuals, not an attempt to divide and conquer.
I saided that already at #62. You people no listens.
Oh, teh guilt! Only a Typical White Person can understand teh guilt!
Enoch Root,
One last thing: I am a black conservative Replublican and a retired GI with a five-year blogging reputation of some small repute. I have never made anyone feel any guilt because of the color their skin and have unwaveringly espoused individualism.
The fact that you would think that I am the type of person who tries to make another feel “white guilt” with the only evidence being that I am black says more about you as an individual than it does about anything else.
Take care.
And you’re still having a conversation with your assumptions.
Has you had sunshines enoch? My rock is kinda small but I can scoot overs.
Thanks Pablo.
McGehee – See, the problem is the whole over-generalizing thing.
see #17 – again, total broad brush here
see #31 – I know this analysis is crude
the point is this: argue in good faith or don’t argue (dialog, if you prefer) at all. baldilocks was being an apologist for an indefensible position. and when pinned, slinked.
I know baldilocks is not the enemy, but comments like “drink less” and “next” are, coming from friend or foe, lame.
the point is this: argue in good faith or don’t argue (dialog, if you prefer) at all. baldilocks was being an apologist for an indefensible position. and when pinned, slinked.
See, now you’re lying.
Good faith my ass.
Blacks have never had an opportunity to live under a free market system. When the US was as close as it ever came to having a free market, they were excluded by Jim Crow.
Not exactly. Look at the pre-civil rights history of nearly any mid-size town with a sizable Black population and you will see a thriving Black business culture. Because Blacks were excluded from White businesses, in most cases they developed their own banks, stores, service and entertainment industries, etc. In one of life’s most brutal ironies, the destruction of the color barrier led to the destruction of many Black businesses and their economic base, as the smaller operations could not compete with the larger White counterparts. Only funeral homes, barber shops and restaurants remain in most cases.
baldilocks – black conservative Replublican and a retired GI with a five-year blogging reputation of some small repute
a “black conservative” – I think you mean “conservative”
a “conservative Republican” – there are too few of these, so here’s to you.
a retired GI – I thank you for your service. in all seriousness.
as for your blogging, I have not had the pleasure of reading your work other than here. did not know definitively that you were black… though it does speak volumes that you thought I did. and if your conclusion was born of your assumption, I think it sez more about you than anything else, sir.
Look here, boy. I don’t have any reason to “slink” or be an apologist to anyone for anything. I have paid all my adult American dues, all my blogging dues and my taxes to boot.
I have repudiated the ills of Americans–black and other–at my blog and in this thread. If you missed it, maybe you need to scroll back up and reread instead of slinging bullshit and hoping it sticks.
On the bright side, Baracky understands why you’re all a bunch of gun-toting, bible thumping, xenophobic racist rednecks.
CHANGE YOU CAN HOPE FOR!
getting under your skin, baldi? I am not teh enemy.
though it does speak volumes that you thought I did. and if your conclusion was born of your assumption, I think it sez more about you than anything else, sir.
And the bolded is proof that you’re not paying attention.
did you call me “boy”?
I will read your blog when you listen to all of my records, you ass.
getting under your skin, baldi?
Why do you ask? Is that where you’re trying to get?
Yes I called you boy. You’re behaving like one.
You are behaving like a lesser version of your credentials, sir. I would suggest you stand next to yourself before you launch your next SCUD.
My pleasure, Baldi. But then, you knew that.
darwins, cut that out! I almost peed over #105.
Why do you ask? Is that where you’re trying to get?
teh intratubes are very rough and tumble, soldier. you have lost yer grit.
And I would suggest that you learn the difference between who should be called ‘sir’ and who should be called ‘ma’am,’ genius.
baldi has a fast car for real and also a plan to get us out of here. Maybe we make deal enoch and together we can get somewheres?
I’m not a soldier. You just can’t get anything right today, can you?
That would be Ma’am. You might want to click on that orange name and shop around a bit.
baldi – yessir. I am sorry. I didn’t see your vanginer.
Pablo – you might wish to stuff your head in your ass. I told you I would not read teh blogs of this creature until she listens to my records.
Somehow don’t think you’d recognize anyone’s.
Enough, child.
it sez more about you than anything else, sir.
heh
her names juliette.
isnt that pretty?
baldi – weak.
ok – I’ll be back. gotta go to walgreens for things for the new baby.
baldi – no ill-intent. seriously though, the insults are beneath you… if I am to take the compliments cast your way from fellow-PW folks as any indication.
if youre here when we get back, we can continue if you like.
aside from that, I do truly and sincerely thank you for your service. though what it has to do with your evasive tactics in this thread, I am still not sure. Could it be because I am a young child with a drinking problem who cant follow a conversation because I cant get it right? I suppose youll let me know. in some ass-face kind of snide way which you will position as clever.
hi gamera! I know we’re not opposed to be social creatures cause I sawed it on Discovery but I likes you anyway.
You’re right, Enoch_Root. It was weak. :::shrug:::
You know what? I notice you’re reading every one of these insults even though you missed some of my serious answers. Then you threw a tantrum and started lying about when it was your fault. That tells me that you don’t want to have a serious conversation about this. I get it.
Ah, that’s right. You’re this dipshit. It’s a shame that you lack your brother’s good humor and common sense. And frankly, I’m not interested in your self comforting techniques. If I were you, I’d be busy enjoying my new little miracle and not picking fights on the intertubes, but then, I’m not you. Thankfully.
All right, all of you, pipe down. You’re getting to be examples of the problem, not of possible solutions.
Juliette, I understand in a theoretical sort of way why you’re offended. But you need to know that from where we sit the criticism looks at least a little bit justified.
Look: When we get a David Duke or a Pat Robertson, or a John Hagee for that matter, the left then proceeds to pin that label on all “conservatives” or all “white people”. It never quite works, because there are immediate protests, some of which come from credible voices.
But when a Sharpton speaks up, or a Michelle Obama, where are the black dissenters? Nowhere. Not heard. So it is very, very easy, almost obligatory, to simply go with the flow and accept them as spokespeople, as typical. It’s not so much that the media shove them in front of us, or that the corporations cave under the threat and keep them alive, as it is that we don’t get Condi Rice or Michael Steele to step up and say “bullshit”. We don’t get anybody. And you aren’t helping. When Enoch or BJ or Ardsgaine try to make that point you descend to insult.
You want us to see your point of view, and you lay it out for us. But we have a point of view also, and if you treat “disagree” as “attack” it helps nothing. We may be wrong about reasons and motives, but we are reporting what we see as best we can and trying to find explanations for it. Denying that we see what is before our eyes is not a way to win friends and influence people.
Regards,
Ric
Enoch is Dan’s brother? No ways.
I’d like to. Really I would. But, too often they mobilize as a group (blacks only, please) instead of as individuals.
I understand the idea that an individual demands that you treat them as more than one individual. It doesn’t mean that you have to comply.
Personally, I only treat individuals as members of a group when that is how they present themselves.
And, unfortunately, politics (and issues of race are tied to politics) is won by getting in a big ‘ole group.
Detroit politics is VERY polarized. Last election, the man running against Kwame wasn’t black enough because he was liked by the suburanites, which is code for “white.” Kwame’s signs read “Kwame – he’s “OUR” boy”, with the word “our” underlined.
Oh. Switching nameses like that is confuzzling. I a lot decry it.
When Enoch or BJ or Ardsgaine try to make that point you descend to insult.
If I’ve been insulted, I missed it. :)
“where are the black dissenters?”
Thomas Sowell is chopped liver? Larry Elders?
One of Juliette’s point is very well taken – when a Fox mouthpiece puts Sharpton or Jackson on (while in full suck mode) and doesn’t follow with Sowell or Elders or one of more than a few others then oh, lordy, how them stereotypes grow and grow.
You have to get to a microphone in order for your speech to be heard by more than just a few and the controllers of the microphones are, for the most part, serfs in Blue Fiefs with ugly Blue Barons as masters.
Hi Matt! I was wondering a lot where you’d gone… and there you are. Congratulations on your little softshell!
Juliette, I understand in a theoretical sort of way why you’re offended. But you need to know that from where we sit the criticism looks at least a little bit justified.
Ric, you know I love you, but…
What the hell are you are talking about? Criticism of Al? Jesse? Black people? Obama? Of course it’s freaking justified. Who said anything else?
You want us to see your point of view, and you lay it out for us. But we have a point of view also, and if you treat “disagree†as “attack†it helps nothing.
I’ve attacked one person who said I was “slinking away” from the conversation. I also said that I have some ideas and will drop them in as necessary. Is Enoch_Root now representative of all white people? Dear God, I hope not.
When Enoch or BJ or Ardsgaine try to make that point you descend to insult.
Ric…
Are you confusing me with someone else?
One of Juliette’s point is very well taken – when a Fox mouthpiece puts Sharpton or Jackson on (while in full suck mode) and doesn’t follow with Sowell or Elders or one of more than a few others then oh, lordy, how them stereotypes grow and grow.
Exactly. And that is because Jessie and Al are down with the Left. Meanwhile, Thomas who? What’s a Sowell? Sorry, we never heard of him.
That one kid has a Savage Garden cd and also A*Teens so I think maybe he’s teh representative. He sure acts like it.
Detroit politics is VERY polarized. Last election, the man running against Kwame wasn’t black enough because he was liked by the suburanites, which is code for “white.†Kwame’s signs read “Kwame – he’s “OUR†boyâ€Â, with the word “our†underlined.
You know, I understand why white people around there feel besieged.
The herd/history explanation which Patrick mention is exemplified by this situation. I’m not sure about how to eradicate it except to talk about it.
And the fact that Kilpatrick’s are so outrageous helps to eradicate this type of thinking (hopefully).
Is Enoch_Root now representative of all white people? Dear God, I hope not.
::asserting my individuality::
After going back up to check a see whether I was handing out insulte, willy-nilly (I wasn’t), I found something I agreed with from Al Maviva:
Right. Playing Identity Politics games turns us into them.
Pablo – yes, ’tis me, you Boomer POS.
Reason for name changiness is that it matters not who my familial relations be. Nor does it do me or Dan any justice being brothers here. I wish people would just see us as teh individuals we are, rather than one monolithic clan. Also, Marsha, marsha, marsha and all that, you’ll understand.
darwins – I don’t know/remember you, but thanking you very much on the soft-shell comment.
baldilocks – could you tell me what exactly a representative of all white people means to you? sounds funky.
darwins is feets turtle
one of thems
baldilocks – could you tell me what exactly a representative of all white people means to you? sounds funky.
There’s no such thing. It was a rhetorical absurdity directed at Ric Locke, who contended (for some as yet unknown reason) that I was insulting you and BJ and Ardsgaine for your opinions when, in reality, it was only you that I was insulting and that was for not reading effectively.
#144: what I’m doing is skimming the thread, and as usual I may have some commenters’ names mixed up.
‘way back at #35, you said:
That’s what set off the firestorm. People are saying that that’s an excuse, a “they did it to us! It’s not our fault!” milder than the sort of thing Jeremiah Wright blathers but just as pernicious — and, to a certain extent, they’re right. (I don’t think any of them would call that the total explanation, or that anyone has suggested that it is.)
Now: you’re absolutely right. Partly out of laziness, partly out of PC leftism, the media tend to go for the Sharptons when there’s a controversy that can be cast as “racial”, and that’s damaging far beyond what’s apparent. But what makes it damaging is that there are few or no countervailing voices — and, worse, when someone does speak up against that point of view, he or she can depend upon being accused of not being black enough to discuss it and in the normal case will then shut up about it, or (which is, in my opinion, worse) will challenge the accusation with cries of “Yes I am! I’m a real black!” It’s as if even the black people who self-identify as conservative have adopted the identity rules as promulgated by the Left.
And it is the identity rules that cause the problem. If there were even a very few identifiably black people who were prepared to say forcefully, “Yes, dammit, I act white, and that’s how I got to be successful. They let just about anybody into the Club these days, and the biggest problem I had getting in was having to carry Sharpton’s dead ass,” the problem would be enormously reduced. It even happens to be true. Why don’t people stand on their hind legs and say it, viva voce?
What’s happening is that black people are allowing the creation of a new stereotype even more damaging than shuck&jive. That stereotype is of defiant refusal to go along with the program, fueled by an attitude that it is somehow demeaning to do so. Since we white people are just as subject to pressure to go along as anyone else is, we don’t and can’t sympathize much. We had to learn to “act white”, too, and it took us fifteen hundred years to work out the process. Those who follow the rules and get graunched have a legitimate beef, and nowadays there would be substantial help to overcome that. But the near-universal picture nowadays is of people who won’t follow the rules because it somehow challenges their identity, and until and unless there is a substantial refutation of that in the form of people who are eligible for membership in the identity group but reject it, the stereotype will exist and continue to be reinforced.
Regards,
Ric
But they do, to their credit, put Juan Williams on. And he gets this stuff, and decries it.
baldilocks – I think by me “not reading effectively” you actually meant you “not conveying effectively”… for I seem to read just fine, thank you.
Enoch, you need to back down, you are coming across as a jerk and pointlessly rude. Do you mean to? The internet can sometimes rouse passions and anonimity can make me say and do things I regret later, just something to consider. Baldilocks is a person I respect and admire greatly, as do many others: you I don’t know. My first impressions are not good.
I think she probably feels pretty alone here, and there’s no reason for it. She’s a fellow American conservative. She’s our sister.
You said I was “slinking away” when there are a ton of comments with my name on them. So what should we attribute that to?
You also said that I was “making excuses” for black misbehavior. Please tell me in which comment the “excuses” appear. A number would be helpful.
Christopher,
Thank you, my dear.
Chris – if I am coming across as a jerk and pointlessly rude, then I do apologize. I think Ric nails it just fine. Better than I could. It is enormously frustrating, particularly from a conservative, to hear corporations put on the chopping block for the likes of the “Revs”, who are scum of all scum in my book. Race-baiting ass-hats. I thought it was disingenuous is all. And I did not appreciate having such a meme posted as if is were sooooo self-evident. That is just a pile of crap to me.
As for anonymity, my brother will tell you I don’t give one rat’s ass about that. In this manner I am a jerk. I never write anything I would not say in person.
Further, I am saddened and frustrated by the “narrative”, whereby I sense I am to assist is correcting teh situation… when no one really, truly gives a frock what I can or can’t do to solve it or remedy it. The situation among the Black Community (the big, monolithic bloc), or at least most that would self-describe themselves as such, is terrible here in Milwaukee. And the worst part of it is that it appears self-inflicted at this point. I love people and it sucks to see the community spin further and further into oblivion. I’d say the same if they were green.
“Playing Identity Politics games turns us into them.”
Not exactly, Juliette. The title of the post refers to politics as market segmentation and “message to segment”. If you flip to business mode it makes sense, which is why I said to not waste assets on the seqment. Don’t try and push Burger King into a neighborhood with a McDonalds on every corner.
“Plantation” may be less accurate than “fief” but I believe that it is more easily understood. All the prog plantations (and there are about 80 in total) are run as fiefs and organized by the Alinsky methodolgy used by ACORN et al. The serfs within the fiefs (black and white) who derive their subsistance from dealing with the Blue Barons are beyond the reach of the Republicans.
BHO’s ritual kissing of Ayer’s ring prior to his ascension to the corrupt halls of the Illinois State Senate and from there to a corrupt seat in the US Senate was and is wholly emblematic of life within the fief. The same can be said for the corruption being exposed in the Rezko trial. It’s all “true” progressivism – the division of spoils by the powerful who gain their positions through the manipulation of dependency among those whom they profess to serve.
It really ain’t a black thing, except for the fact that in this instance the Reds happen to be black. Life in the white plantations is the same except for the degree of direct dependency. IMO there are more thieves (or at least bigger thieves) in the white plantations than one is likely to find on those with a black majority.
SF being a prime example.
#158 by Ric nails it, as I have said. When you put it all on corp america and the media, I felt faint of heart. and when I asked you if there was no responsibility for the debacle of the “revs” prominence, you confirmed that was your belief. to me, it sounded excusey.
BTW, the prominence of both Jackson and Sharpton are the fault of corporations which have allowed themselves to be shaken down by these two and the fault of media entities–like Fox News–who put microphones under them.
That’s what set off the firestorm. People are saying that that’s an excuse, a “they did it to us! It’s not our fault!†milder than the sort of thing Jeremiah Wright blathers but just as pernicious  and, to a certain extent, they’re right. (I don’t think any of them would call that the total explanation, or that anyone has suggested that it is.)
Are you and corporations the same entity? When we blame the MSM for other things do you take it personally?
Years ago, I talked about the cowardice of corporations against Jesse Jackson’s blackmail and urged corporations to be Free at Last. Larry Elder wrote a book about the same thing and everyone was like “yea, stop letting Jesse shake you down!†Has that changed?
You, of all people, I expect to know the difference between me and a Jeremiah Wrightâ€â€between Wright’s blaming America first and me calling for large corporations to STOP giving Jesse and Al a platform to blame America first.
Sorry but I am not G** Damned Jeremiah Wright any more than you are Enoch_Root.
That’s what set off the firestorm. People are saying that that’s an excuse, a “they did it to us! It’s not our fault!†milder than the sort of thing Jeremiah Wright blathers but just as pernicious  and, to a certain extent, they’re right.
I wasn’t one of those people–or that person, rather. (Was there more than one?) I understood the point that baldilocks was making, and I didn’t assume that she meant it to be the sole explanation. Your point about the identity rules is valid, but we can set it next to what she said and fit them both into the big picture.
closing tag
To reemphasize, they’re out there. They’re just getting very little play. Cosby has been humping this stuff for what must be a decade or more. As I mentioned, Juan Williams is on the stump, and he’s been killing Obama over such things. Chris Rock is absolutely devastating on this stuff. There are a lot of names you could list, but they’re just not getting the media play that the race baiters get. I think the root of the problem is the non-PC nature of the discussion.
So if they’re out there hollering, and they can’t get a platform to be heard from, then what?
Enoch Root:
When you put it all on corp america and the media, I felt faint of heart.
Dude I didn’t just say that out of the blue. The stuff has context (as demonstrated in my last comment to Ric). I expected the people here (not necessarily you) to know that and know me.
And I am very, very hurt by you, Ric.
I slink away now. I have a post to write.
I’m green.
baldilcks – I really don’t care how I come across now. You’re POS too, “Dude”
go wright your post.
What Can the GOP Do To Win the Black Vote?
Well, I’m glad we cleared that up.
baldilcks – I really don’t care how I come across now. You’re POS too, “Dudeâ€Â
Damn, I thought I was being conciliatory with you. What’s wrong with “dude?”
baldilcks – I really don’t care how I come across now. You’re POS too, “Dudeâ€Â
go wright your post.
The sandbox is all yours, dude. Enjoy.
Never mind. Good night, people.
Yeah – thanks DAN COLLINS, MY BROTHER… you started this, YOU DICK. Yours, Enoch_Root (AKA Matt Collins), AKA Your humorless BROTHER
Pablo – go f&^% a tree.
Ards – you are a star-f*(&^er. Go follow your hero.
Aw, do you need a shoulder to cry on, Matt?
And funny.
hmmm. Someone maybe still feels the pain of the scars that won’t heal or something. You has clouds in eye?
No Pablo – do you need fewer teeth. ;)
In all seriousness, you are a POS.
darwins – when will your owner be back?
erm…
juliette is oldskool conservo blogger royalty.
she has street cred, enoch.
from way before us
i think u misunnerstood
He said Mondays, but he’s kinda flighty, that one.
darwins – that may be. still, I was not real impressed with her approach to “dialogging”. I think perhaps street cred has gone to its head. and I dont star-f&*% anyone. Not even Radiohead. :)
But Pablo… well, it is a POS.
Is ok. You’re more Irisher than Dan I think.
Er… Scotsier I mean I think.
hmmmm. In actuality, I am a nicer drunk, to be sure. He is just a decade longer in the cask.
I don’t like Mondays, but not really like Brenda Spencer.
Looks like the missus has a number of diapers to change. :-P
You’re not looking for a date, are you Enoch?
Pablo – no, but I could dig up your grandmother and fuck her skeleton in the eye socket while you watch if you like.
You said you were leaving me to this sandbox. Go, before I chuck this Tonka truck at your wee little head. I think your mommy is calling you.
Oh. Now that I think of it I’ve never ever seen my brother drink which is weird cause he’s the one what always pisses when we’re in the bathtub. I still loves him though.
Hi All,
Well, I ended up at Apres Diem, at 9th and Monroe, and sank a couple of gallons of mixed European beers. The Peroni was the least skunked, so the Italians are first in my heart this evening. Huh. And they’re about to re-elect a right-winger. What are the odds?
Oh. Yeah. That race thing. Well, I iterated over the 110-or-therabouts posts since Four Pee Em (I meant to do it that way when I was leaving (post 45 or thereabout), but my UI guy was yammering on about ActionScript SOAP handling, so I lost the moment) and I have no breakthroughs. I still like baldilocks, and I apologize for being flip twice in one conversation; it’s the Irish in me, for sure. Or maybe the narcissist. (DUCK!) Enoch_Root has a new fan. Ardsgaine gets huge points for persistence, and consistency, I think, though, you know, the Peroni. Collins gets the normal kudos for starting this. Jeff…well…he’s God, right?
I leave just wishing everyone would serve in the US military for a bit. I did, and I learned to see people as people, and treat them where they are. If this seems to conflict with anything I said earlier, well, I’m buzzed, happy, and not curently over-worried with consistency.
I am always happy about individuals. I always worry about groups.
Patrick
—
That wasn’t me, dipshit. I’ll be here all week. Try the crow.
Mohammed H. Prophet! Did you guys write 40 posts while I was composing?
Ease off, for the love of God!
Patrick – your post is too high-minded and well-considered to be in the presence of my ranting on this thread. I blame the Irish in me, too.
Safe travels to you and thanks for your service. It is appreciated by this entire family of Collinses.
Hope to see you hereabouts soon. You know, cause I need a shoulder to cry on.
Enoch_Root == Dan Collins?!?!?!!!!!111!!!!Eleventy!!!!!!!1!!!!!!?
Back to Apres Diem with me.
Pablo – is that it? “Dipshit”? Jeez. I’d call you a pussy, but I don’t want to offend my 3 little girls. Who, BTW, could probably take you like a red-headed Canadien.
No, the you being wrong, again, is it, dipshit. What’s all this bravado now? Are you like 5 or something? Or have you been reading too much Geordie?
what’s this: Aw, do you need a shoulder to cry on, Matt?
what did you expect?
I think we’re augering in on a scatalogical version of Godwins Law.
darwins: Oh. Switching nameses like that is confuzzling. I a lot decry it.
Uh, feets…
Erm, the drama is thick…
Me? I say Juliette would make a damn fine VP. Love ya sweetie!
I can’t hear you I gots my head in mah shell.
Patrick, I think we might have hit that in #127. It’s really too bad, because there was a very interesting conversation going on here.
more celt
less scott
Well, it’s still interesting. Just interesting in a different way.
Oh! “Scrubs” is on! And I can hear thunder in the distance.
We’re in for a fun night.
Pablo = star-fu%^$ng sycophant
Oh, geez. This is like one of those Southwest Airline commercials.
You mean where they kick the guy off because he’s too drunk to fly?
Dear gamera,
My favorite exchange of all time. It’s a King of France talking to he pet philosopher, an Irishman:
Q: Quid distat inter Scottum et sottum?
A: Tantum mensa.
Look it up!
To be born Irish is to have won 90% of life’s race. SweartoGod!
Patrick
—
LIGHTNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or where they kick the girl off because she’s too hot?
Juliette,
I am deeply sorry to have disappointed you. I hope you realize that you’ve disappointed me, too.
I’m gonna leave it at that for a little while. Maybe my Internet will come back on full after I’ve thought about it for a bit.
Regards,
Ric
Tribalism in America
So if you say the same things–writing the same things– that you’ve been saying and writing for the last five years, and someone who has been reading what you write and agreeing with it for the last five years but
Tribalism in America
“You keep me hangin’ on the telephone,
You keep me hangin’ on the telephone.”
Or, at the end of a DSL line. Whatever
To restate Baldilocks’ point: crazy guys saying stupid stuff have been doing so since the beginning of time: they only get influence when given it by media and powers that be, such as companies that cave in to blackmail attempts and treat them with respect and dignity. If you can get press time, you’re considered someone knowledgeable by most people – particularly if you aren’t contradicted by the media.
So yeah: Al Sharpton et al are bozos, but they’d be the “raving lunatic on the streetcorner” level of bozo without the media attention.
Today’s NAACP
Offered without comment. None necessary.
But when a Sharpton speaks up, or a Michelle Obama, where are the black dissenters? Nowhere. Not heard.
To reemphasize, they’re out there. They’re just getting very little play.
Exactly. Are the dissenting voices supposed to buy air time if the networks don’t call? I hear dissenting voices on job sites and in the bars, if you guys don’t it may be the company you are keeping. Or in Roots case, the voices in his head.
Jaysus H Keerist…
I just scrolled through this thread and Enoch, with all due respect and love, you’re way outta line, bud.
I know and respect baldilocks/Juliette in meat space. You’re so far off as to make me hope you just are operating on no sleep and maybe tomorrow will sheepishly realize the err of your night time rants.
For my own two cents — I second B Moe. There are quite a few dissenting voices but they don’t get the prime time, first page above the fold coverage. And if they get a little air time, they are severely criticized, marginalized by the self-same boomer white proggs (“we are so enlightened!”). Is it any wonder that websites like “black people like us” and “what white people like” et al are uncomfortably and hillariously popular?
I’m nagging every day an attorney I work with to start a blog… a black moderate Democrat — a close friend of Larry Elder, former LA City attorney. He’s one of those “dissenting voices” you don’t think is doing enough or is loud enough.
Republicans can never out progressive the proggs so every time the Republicans engage in “me, too” they lose.
Be it blacks, latinos, or asians, the Reps are better off ignoring identity politics and concentrating on core values.
Ards
I have a great deal of sympathy for the “legalize” drug tactic … in theory. However, 10 years in the DA office has made me cynical. First there is way too much collateral damage done by addicts (and in CA addicts don’t go to jail, they have serveral flavors of court approved/supervised rehab programs) and, cynically, I don’t think you’d get a concurrent agreement to cut addicts off from government $$$ for food stamps, “free” medical, etc.
I agree with Darleen’s posts, except that I (unfortunately) don’t know Baldi in real life.
Perhaps Enoch just needed some boobs.
I have a great deal of sympathy for the “legalize†drug tactic … in theory. However, 10 years in the DA office has made me cynical. First there is way too much collateral damage done by addicts
I know. I grew up with an alcoholic father, and his side of the family has a history of difficulty in that area. I just think that the collateral damage done by outlawing it is far, far greater. As difficult as things were in our house, they would have been a helluva lot more difficult if he had been locked up in jail.
and, cynically, I don’t think you’d get a concurrent agreement to cut addicts off from government $$$ for food stamps, “free†medical, etc.
Probably not. I don’t expect to see the government legalize drugs or take its hands off of the medical industry any time soon. Either one by itself would be a step forward, though, so I won’t say no to one because I can’t get the other one immediately.
Scott Eric founded some racisms. And also more the next day. It’s all a lot anachronistic, but then a commenter person adduces this story, which leads into the all-too predictable sort of consequences here.
How this is relevant is I think you can a lot see that the Republican party could never ever hope to match liberals’ fascination with race. And that there’s probably something a lot flattering in that fascination to some percentage of African Americans anyway.
Countervailing voices I don’t think do a lot more than to perpetuate the racialist nonsense they’re trying to counter, cause they’re arguing against extremely opportunistic people most of the time that want to leverage race for an agenda not least of which is to establish precedent for future leveraging of race. The only way to win the game is not to play.
And that is my answer to Mr. Collins’ question. Can I has cricket?
Ards
If you legalize drugs and but don’t let addicts suffer the consequences of their behavior then the government creates and maintains a permanent addicted population.
As bad as Prohibition was it is also true that its end saw an increase in alcoholism. A legalization of drugs will see an increase in drug addiction. Simple facts.
And along with that drug addictions will be more abused/neglected/killed children and people.
I don’t know if I can turn a blind eye to that.
– “….But when a Sharpton speaks up, or a Michelle Obama, where are the black dissenters?
– They’re doing exactly what any of us would do if we found ourselves within a minority constituency with a get out of jail benefits card, our racial equalizer in our tight little fists. We’d play it for all it was worth, i9ncluding allowing all the usual suspects to stir the pot, just as long as the answer always comes up a win for your “group”. Why speak up, when you win either way, at least in the short run, and beyond your own mortality few are magnanimous enough to think future. Another good example of the “win by silent fore-bearence” asis presently practised by the Muslim community. Think about it.
– But to address the question “What can McCain do?”
– His best bet is to repeat the “breaking free of racial stereotyping, as practiced by the Dems….”, and just generally let Hillery and Obama keep talking and prove his points.
Dude I didn’t just say that out of the blue. The stuff has context (as demonstrated in my last comment to Ric). I expected the people here (not necessarily you) to know that and know me.
Again – I don’t know Baldi from Adam (or eve for that matter). The only writing of hers i have ever seen is here (unless I don’t recall properly). So, I’ll take your collective word for it that she is a “decent bloke”. Nonetheless, I still think her position on the “Revs” and why they are still somehow relevant is incorrect. Like most things, there are multiple factors conspiring to make it so. But I thought it dishonest to put it on the corporate “victims” of the shakedowns perpetrated by the revs. Still, no admission that there is any support from the larger Black Community (makes point to say in general, of course). And yet, If I mistook her point on this issue, I am to take it that I don’t read efficiently. Again, I don’t have the same credentials or street cred, which is fine. But what that has to do with the issue at hand, I am not too sure.
So, if I have come off as a jerk for not knowing Baldi as I should and therefore not “getting” where she is coming from then I look forward to getting to know her. What i can’t apologize (to Baldi) for, is taking offense at the flippant comments about drinking too much, the “next” dismissal, the other objectionable tactics… such as calling me “boy”, “child”, etc. This is just subterfuge that serves no purpose at all. And while concurrently saying she wanted to engage in an adult conversation.
I’ll own my stuff, as I shouldn’t have stooped so low about Pablo’s grandma. So, I am sorry Pablo about writing that. That was not cool. You are still a POS in my book, though. :)
It could very well be that I am dense, drunk, short on sleep, etc. But I don’t think so.
I have been here long enough that like to baldi you all should pretty well have me figured out by now.
I like it here and I don’t want everyone to be pissed at me. But I do want an objective shake. That’s all.
Fair enough I think. Also I think the shakedowns are just a symptom anyway and not really an unto themselves kinda thing. More better I think to situate them with the green shakedowns and the child labour shakedowns and the … those lawsuits Darleen talks about shakedowns. So many shakedowns.
I do have to own the “wright your post” comment. That wasn’t cool either. So, for that particular comment I do apologize to Baldi.
Well put, Enoch, my brother. You’re a stand up guy. For the record, I think baldilocks is wrong about corporate culpability in creating “Black Spokesmen” out of those two jerks. And like Ric, I eagerly await the day when there’s a credible black voice that rises over Jesse’s and Al’s whining dither.
baldilocks was dismissive and condescending.
You over-reacted–it happens. [I have no idea where that baggage you and Pablo carry around comes from…sheesh!]
You apologized.
I hope baldilocks will do likewise.
221 Comment by darwins on 4/12 @ 12:11 am #
That was brilliant.
That’s the power of the nets to amplify a misunderstanding, right there. Thanks, Enoch. Can’t wait to meet the little guy in a couple of weeks.
For the record, I think baldilocks is wrong about corporate culpability in creating “Black Spokesmen†out of those two jerks.
She’s absolutely right and I explained why in 214.
Yes, she is. And as I’ve said a couple of times, it isn’t all of the problem, but it’s certainly part of it.
We can all play the blame game until the cows come home, or we could set about fixing the problem. Ignoring the Revs is part of the solution.
She’s absolutely right and I explained why in 214
So the victim is guilty of caving in? look, it makes business sense to cave in. unfortunately, we saw that recently with a woman who won a law suit against a hospital and wal-mart properly made her reimburse them from the proceeds. see here
point is, calling individual corps culpable for caving in is just plain wrong. they operate in an environment that is extremely hostile to them, despite the fact that they employ, pay taxes, provide goods and services. I think you could find all sorts of metaphors with regard to criminality that would speak to how unfortunate it is to blame the victim for having “caved in”. at some point, it’s about survival and protecting shareholders. But the fact remains that I don’t hear anyone from the Black Community (obligatory comment: this is a broad brush, generalization, etc) condemning them for getting away with these shake-downs.
Take for example this guy here who is in jail charged with this and still beloved by many his black constituents, for example.
That anyone could turn a blind eye and stick it to themselves for a criminal is bizarre. Bordering on sick. And, I still remember the issue in New York that catapulted the Wright Rev Sharpton into the stratosphere. And I remember at whose expense the FALSE accusations were made. So what am I to make of this type of crap?
The only saving grace is that McGee did not get re-elected, because we couldnt have taken any more of this type of PR.
a good many in the Black Community are complicit in ass-hats like this being able to claim to “represent” them. But many fewer speak out. My question is ‘why is that so’?
To place it on corporate victims is incorrect. Unless you are stating that corporate=media and media=corporate. But that would be an unlikely assumption.
Off base on corporate culpability? Heh. Not only does media provide the Jacksons and Sharptons a platform, but corporations allow themselves to be extorted into providing the funding that keeps Jackson and Sharpton in business. When you provide the funding and the platform, you’re responsible.
So the victim is guilty of caving in? look, it makes business sense to cave in.
Yes, you’re guilty of caving in to absurd, racist pressure that in the end hurts us all. You’re guilty if you do so, and you need to be condemned, not defended.
That anyone could turn a blind eye and stick it to themselves for a criminal is bizarre.
Sure, it’s wrong. Yet the reason we’re in this position is partly because the media and craven business keeps lending credibility and power to clowns who lie about blacks and their situation until many gain a bunker mentality and see America as the outsider, blacks as folks who have to stick together against the enemy. Sure, he’s a crook, but he’s a brother! The white man is oppressing him just like reverend Racistforcash said and he’s on TV all the time saying it, he must be right, even the white folks don’t disagree.
Chris – is that a concession that many blacks are also resp for the revs?
or are blacks not discerning enough to b held resp for the revs?
Chris – if I am reading this appropriately, you are with Barack: the opinions do not necessarily reflect a rational mind, but I can understand where it comes from, so therefore it has validity.
Chris – is that a concession that many blacks are also resp for the revs?
There’s no concession, nobody has disagreed with that position here. Concession implies disagreement and argument. I’m simply pointing out that you cannot avoid the fact that the media and corporate caveins have given these men credibility that they would have lacked, and thus power.
or are blacks not discerning enough to b held resp for the revs?
There’s nothing racial or ethnic about lack of discernment. Most people lack political discernment, because they don’t care enough to be informed, and are more led by emotion than reason. Thus, singling out blacks for their poor discernment is at best mistaken – many whites consider these buffoons to be good and right and respectable.
if I am reading this appropriately, you are with Barack: the opinions do not necessarily reflect a rational mind, but I can understand where it comes from, so therefore it has validity.
Two thoughts here:
1) Senator Obama doesn’t simply think there’s validity, he agrees with them.
2) There’s no validity to the “us vs them” America-as-the-other viewpoint, it’s asinine and foolish. It is the product of generations of propaganda and lies, based somewhat on generations old historical events.
You seem to be looking for a fight where there isn’t one.
Chris – ok, then.
I would suggest three things are occurring here:
1) Media – I have no love for them and they love race-whores, like Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright.
2) Corporations – never said I thought the cave-ins helped. they certainly do lend to funding the activities of the Revs.
but the one I was particularly keen on, because it is something I think could be remedied by blacks is their continued support (again, insert obligatory disclaimer about broad brush, not all blacks stuff here) of scumbags. it is hard to take their complaints too seriously when they wont move a muscle to support leaders from within their own community that they dont consider “knuckle-heads, too white, uncle toms, aunt jemimas, house niggers”, etc.
Baldi said straight out that she did not think blacks shared in promoting this type of crap from these jack-arses. this is what I wanted to hear her acknowledge, because not to do so is to be dishonest. And it is hard to “dialog” with someone who, in this instance at least, would not own up to the reality of the situation, established street cred and all of that aside.
Speaking of looking for a fight: I just got accused of putting on my white hood and robe for writing a comment about the whole “middleclassness” part of Obama’s church’s mission statement.
That was a first for me and, I must say, I didn’t like it one bit.
wow – this is very unitey.
Baldi said straight out that she did not think blacks shared in promoting this type of crap from these jack-arses.
All I saw her say is that she doubted it was 95%, maybe I missed a few posts.
No, it doesn’t. The Revs don’t have standing to sue, and they’ve never really demonstrated that they can affect a bottom line through boycotts. All they can do is sling mud, and paying them off guarantees more of the same behavior. The only power they have is the power we concede to them, which is the basic complaint on the issue.
I don’t see where anyone has said that they aren’t. They don’t march alone, and those who follow them are certainly part of the problem.
Don’t fall for it, BJ. It’s crap. Treat it as such, and don’t ever seek absolution for the nonsense that lives in someone else’s head. Water off a duck, bro.
– Ok…..group hug…..
– Well everyone except darwins…..he’d rather have a chocolate cupcake….
– I thinks sort of Sharpton and that Jesse fellow, theys would be having a lots of coronaries if someone outlawed the race card tomorrow, yes I do….
Pablo, believe me, I’ll treat it the same way I treat a big ol’ pile of bear crap when on a woodland hike.
And Wright’s church has 8000 people in it. Not exactly the majority of Americans who are black.
What isn’t being said about Obama’s church is that it has white members.
Conservatives, by and large, just don’t give a shit about color.
Then why do they push the “Black” conservatives of Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams, etc?
This, and the fact that most American Jews vote Democrat, frustrates me no end.
The number is 80-85% of Jewish people vote Dem, but it’s interesting that there are no derrogatory comments about it, like Blacks who vote for Dems being said to be on the plantation.
Yes I am. No “black†corporation is lining the pockets of these charlatans. And every time some race issue comes up, someone like O’Reilly, Hannity or Imus. is sticking a microphone under one of them.
I seemed to be the only person to point out the symbionic relationship between Sharpton and O’Reily when O’Reily commented that he and Sharpton had dinner and then proceeded to say he was surprised that Blacks at Slyvia’s had table manners. But he is the man who used the term “wet backs” on television and “joked” about Black teens stealing hubcabs at a fund raiser…
I’m thinking more along the lines of providing a consistant flow of positive African American role models like Condi Rice, Bill Cosby, Michael Steele, J.C. Watts etc. in a national campaign to break the cycle of dependency and reinforced hopelessness.
Here’s your “hopelessness”:
Poverty Rate
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html
Blacks below the poverty level:
2005: 24.7%
1966: 41.8%
1959: 55.1%
Educational Attainment
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf
2005
High school +: 80%
Some college +: 44.7%
Bachelors +: 17.3
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/p20-158/tab-01.pdf
1966
High school graduate: 28.5%
4 years college: 2.3%
5 years+ college: 1.3%
Actually, no. Grandma’s pissed. 35 years of dirt napping and she was looking forward to a little action. Nobody comes to visit any more, let alone dig her up.
I believe one of the reasons that so many Blacks stay Dem is they’ve bought into the notion of “the Black vote†and communal benefits and so forth.
What’s most interesting is that people pull out Michael Steele or J.C. Watts when they want to show Black Republicans, but they ignore both men when they state why Blacks don’t vote GOP and that a big part of it happens to be because of the GOP itself.
I think that we were on our way there but the Democrat Party’s embrace of an unvetted candidate like Obama may have set the process back on its a**.
The primary process IS the vetting process. No party can stop anyone from running for office if that person is a party member. Vetted or not doesn’t matter.
Solution: stop considering blacks as a group and consider each as an individual.
That can’t be done. Otherwise race hustlers like Jesse Lee Peterson and Larry Elder (yeah, Elder who quoted Jared Taylor) would be out of a job. Hmmmm…. Sounds familiar…
Since MLK’s time, all of the MSM have been looking for a “black leader†and, when a vacuum exists, they will anoint the one(s) who shout(s) the loudest. But every time a group of blacks are polled and asked who the “black leader†is, the majority respond by saying that no one is.
Dang. Now she’s being reasonable and truthful…
Right. Hannity will ask a couple of tough question, but then let Good Old Al dance right around them without holding his feet to the fire. That way, everybody wins…except society.
I’m not an Al Sharpton fan, but every media person who thinks Sharpton is stupid and interviews Sharpton, gets his head handed back to him by Sharpton and Sharpton never messed up a hair on his permed head.
I think if the Republican Party just gets back on point and stays relatively sane they will have no trouble picking up the vote of these individuals. And I suspect there are a lot more of them out there than most folks realize.
Dang. Another person being reasonable and truthful…
Now fess up: Blacks have propped up folks like the right “Revs†for far too long,
Can I point out that when Sharpton ran for the Dem presidential nomination the last presidential cycle, HE ONLY WON ONE MAJORITY BLACK VOTING DISTRICT? Or is that out of bounds?
Intersting Jesse Jackson, Sr. factoid:
He created Operation PUSH years before he ran for president.
He created The Rainbow Coalition after his first run for president. He created it because of the large number of white votes he received. That’s when he gained his power.
But when a Sharpton speaks up, or a Michelle Obama, where are the black dissenters? Nowhere. Not heard.
You don’t listen to Black talk radio. It’s all there and it’s not conservatives blasting them.
Intersting Jesse Jackson, Sr. factoid:
He created Operation PUSH years before he ran for president.
He created The Rainbow Coalition after his first run for president. He created it because of the large number of white votes he received. That’s when he gained his power.
And the fact that Kilpatrick’s are so outrageous helps to eradicate this type of thinking (hopefully).
And the Blacks saying he has to go is ignored. Hmmmm….
But they do, to their credit, put Juan Williams on. And he gets this stuff, and decries it.
On my blog I’ve written where Juan Williams is lying, errr, not mentioning everything. His niece graduated from Howard. Howard students tutor in D.C. schools and after Katrina, spent spring break in N.O. helping to rebuild. The same students who listen to hip hop. But he didn’t tell squat about that, did he?
What isn’t being said about Obama’s church is that it has white members.
Oh, I have a Black friend or two. Cool. It’s a free-for-all, cause people with Black friends can’t be racists, right?
Then why do they push the “Black†conservatives of Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams, etc?
Are you indicating they have only gotten where they are because there is a bias for Black conservatives? in that, it is somehow beneficial to be Black? Who refuted this notion last? Or are you saying that they’ve been recipients of some sort of formulaic hand-out or quota? Please cite.
The number is 80-85% of Jewish people vote Dem, but it’s interesting that there are no derrogatory comments about it, like Blacks who vote for Dems being said to be on the plantation.
this thread is not entitled “What can the GOP do to Win the Jewish Vote”. but, sure, if you like we are all Zionists here… except for the Catholics… which are just dumb Religionists.
But he is the man who used the term “wet backs†on television and “joked†about Black teens stealing hubcabs at a fund raiser…
I am no fan of Bill O. Kind of a slightly (and I mean slightly) more intelligent version of Bill Maher. I don’t see anyone here defend Bill O very often, if at all. Must have me at least confused with someone else.
Here’s your “hopelessnessâ€Â
those are real stellar numbers. pat on back time.
i>What’s most interesting is that people pull out Michael Steele or J.C. Watts when they want to show Black Republicans, but they ignore both men when they state why Blacks don’t vote GOP and that a big part of it happens to be because of the GOP itself
couldn’t make sense of this. pls explain.
Vetted or not doesn’t matter.
pls see Karl’s post here
That can’t be done. Otherwise race hustlers like Jesse Lee Peterson and Larry Elder (yeah, Elder who quoted Jared Taylor) would be out of a job. Hmmmm…. Sounds familiar…
teh hypocrites!
Dang. Now she’s being reasonable and truthful…
ok, if you say so…
I’m not an Al Sharpton fan, but every media person who thinks Sharpton is stupid and interviews Sharpton, gets his head handed back to him by Sharpton and Sharpton never messed up a hair on his permed head.
no one said he was stupid. just that he is scum of scum. POS.
Dang. Another person being reasonable and truthful…
Yes, even Conservatives can don rose-colored glasses. It’s the tide of hopeyness that has been infused into the national “dialogging” ‘an stuff.
Can I point out that when Sharpton ran for the Dem presidential nomination the last presidential cycle, HE ONLY WON ONE MAJORITY BLACK VOTING DISTRICT? Or is that out of bounds?
Sure, you can point that out, but itdoesn’t address the heart of the matter at all: Blacks are as a group (insert obligatory disclaimer about broad brushing, generalizations and such so as to protect the self from the whole “must be a racist thingy”) largely responsible for the stellar numbers of incarcerations, bastard child rate, lack of academic performance, and economic situation. There is nothing any party or politician or white, asian, or hispanic can do about it. Change will have to come from within the ranks of the community… or La Raza, if you will. But I can tell you it wont be the ACLU, NAACP, or Black Congressional Caucus that liberates our Black brethren. And it sure is sh&* wont be the Sharptons of the world either.
DarkStar those stats are all well and good – and true – the problem is the hopelessness comes because they aren’t being told. Rather the opposite is being pushed, by con artists like Jackson and company.
Suppose he had more time to discuss it. Suppose that every time a racial thing came up, every freaking network and radio show was calling him to comment instead of the pimps. Don’t you think he’d talk about things like that, and the example in his own family? For that matter, how did you come to know it?
Pablo – I hate to agree with you at this point, given my real identity and your grandma and stuff… but Juan Williams has come a very long way in the past decade. Shoot, I almost think of him as… dare I say it… objective
QUICK – INSERT SELL-OUT COMMENT HERE
I hate to agree with me too much on this one too, because he’s still a barking moonbat in a lot of ways. But this bit he gets and he’s one of those dissenting voices no one seems to be able to identify.
Fuck Sharpton. Next time, call Bill Cosby.
Darleen,
Probably too late to come back to this, but you wrote:
1) We don’t have socialized healthcare yet, so addicts would have to have insurance to get healthcare, unless they qualify for Medicaid.
2) Even if they have government healthcare, that does not amount to creating and maintaining a permanently addicted population. The primary focus of treatment would be to get the addict off drugs, and under current rules there is a limit to the treatment an addict could receive if he refused to clean up. When my dad received his heart transplant, he had to undergo psychological screening to determine if he was eligible. At that point, he had been alcohol and nicotine free for ten years. A crack addict could never get a heart transplant.
3) Drugs are so easy to acquire, I don’t believe there would be an increase in addiction through legalization. Everyone knows the devastation wrought by drug addiction. The people who turn to them don’t care about their health or happiness, so why would they care about breaking the law?
4) Children are already being killed and abused by drug addicts. They are also being turned into drug runners and outlaws by drug dealers, killing and being killed due to the violence in the drug trade, and spending their formative years locked up where they are turned into hardened criminals. That part, at least, would go away. The other part needs another solution because this one isn’t working.
5) At the heart of the opposition to legalization is the belief that by legalizing it we sanction it. We don’t. Not everything that is immoral should be illegal, and we can loudly condemn the immorality of drug use while acknowledging the right of drug users to their vice–so long as they do not hurt others while practicing it. We can impose severe penalties on those who commit crimes while under the influence of drugs just as we impose severe penalties for causing an automobile accident while driving under the influence. A person who chooses to impair his mind has a double responsibility for his actions while impaired.
What is the dynamic that keeps moderate or reasonable members from speaking out whenever hustlers like Jackson or Sharpton play their victim card?
Two parallels?
At the university at which I teach (see how I avoided the dreaded “ending your sentence with a preposition?) there is a palpable undercurrent of hostility among the black male students wherein if one of them answers a question, the others either glare at him or share knowing snickers among each other. This bothered me to the point where I eventually had them stay after class to address the issue. It was awkward.
Second, is there a parallel between our yearning for a moderate Black voice to emerge and our yearning for a moderate Islamic voice to emerge? Are there such pressures within those respective communities–albeit of a different type and tenor–that such opposition is all but impossible? I’m not saying that the two are equally dangerous, just that the reluctance to speak out against a vocal minority (hopefully) is similar.
Oh, I have a Black friend or two. Cool. It’s a free-for-all, cause people with Black friends can’t be racists, right?
It ain’t “just a few” as if you have been paying attention, white pastors are coming to Wrights defense.
Are you indicating they have only gotten where they are because there is a bias for Black conservatives?
I’m responding to the comment that conservatives don’t give a shit about color. It’s a lie and I showed it to be a lie. It is white conservatives who point out that the people listed are also Black.
this thread is not entitled “What can the GOP do to Win the Jewish Voteâ€Â. but, sure, if you like we are all Zionists here… except for the Catholics… which are just dumb Religionists.?
I pointed out that I find it interesting that Blacks are castigated, called names, and belittled for voting so heavily for Dems but Jewish voters, almost as single voting, get a pass.
couldn’t make sense of this. pls explain.
Republicans hold some responsibility, and I say a lot of responsibility, for Blacks voting heavily Dem. Michael Steele and J.C. Watts are trotted out as being “brave Blacks for supporting Republicans” and Republicans shake their heads and wonder why Blacks vote that way. When Watts and Steele say why, they are ignored. Check this out. This is from a Black Republican.
Sure, you can point that out, but itdoesn’t address the heart of the matter at all:
I find it interesting that you shifted from saying Blacks support Sharpton but when I point out it’s not what you think, you shift.
For grins, please point out where Sharpton has said not of the things you listed are not a problem.
DarkStar those stats are all well and good – and true – the problem is the hopelessness comes because they aren’t being told. Rather the opposite is being pushed, by con artists like Jackson and company
By and large, they aren’t told by conservatives either. Here’s the Project 21 link. Go find articles showing what I posted.
Suppose he had more time to discuss it. Suppose that every time a racial thing came up, every freaking network and radio show was calling him to comment instead of the pimps. Don’t you think he’d talk about things like that, and the example in his own family? For that matter, how did you come to know it?
Now, that is a GREAT QUESTION!!!!!
You see, he told about his niece on Fox Sunday. He told how his niece collected gowns for high school seniors in New Orleans so they could wear the donated gowns at their proms. This was after Katrina hit. Now, not only did Howard students go to New Orleans to help clean up after Katrina, but so did many other Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs). In fact, the efforts of the HBCUs were mentioned on places like The Tom Joyner Morning Show, Black Voices, Black blogs, and in the Black media.
He knew this.
For real the GOP should speak out against for real racisms when they happen though. I shoulda already said but then again it’s kind of a duh. This seems a lot like for real racism. There are no improper lane changes, only racist Louisiana cops I think, but then it’s an AP article so who can know.
Thank you very much, Matt. Apologies also offered.
I still own up to this. It was others who are adding white “blame” and “guilt” into the mix. The only ones to blame and who are guilty are the blackmailers themselves. All I said was that corporations and MSM should say ‘no.’
An analogy: if a burglar broke into your house and I advised you to buy a gun and shoot him the next time would you say that I was blaming you for the break in? That would be crazy.
Any phantom white “blame and guilt” comes from what you expect me to be thinking, not from what I’m actually saying. And just because I say that blacks aren’t responsible for for Jesse and Al doesn’t mean that they (we) aren’t responsible for other societal maladies.
This was why I kept saying that people were arguing with their own assumptions about me and not arguing with the actual me.
Another analogy: If I advised you to lock your windows and doors to make it harder for burglars to breaking in, would you say that I was blaming you for the break in?
Jesse and Al are paid by Fox, CNN, etc. Jesse blackmailed Coca Cola, IBM, etc. Nobody else made these corporations cave. They did/do it because they *thought* that Jesse and Al represent black people other than themselves. They are mistaken. They should stop making the same mistake. It’s not rocket science.
Baldilocks – #266 & #267 – I’ll have to take your word for it… because from this angle (suburban white guy), it appears quite different. I am willing to consider it a blind-spot. Or incredibly effective marketing/packaging. Could be. I will pay more attention to the phenom and see if your thesis is more sensible than I am giving it credit for.
Fair enough.