Jeff’s not around to reiterate his view, but Michael Meyers states it quite well in his LA Times article about Obama’s missed opportunity:
I waited in vain for our hybrid presidential candidate to speak the simple truth that there is no such thing as “race,” that we all belong to the same race — the human race. I waited for him to mesmerize us with a singular and focused appeal to hold all candidates to the same standards no matter their race or their sex or their age. But instead Obama gave us a full measure of racial rhetoric about how some of us with an “untrained ear” — meaning whites and Asians and Latinos — don’t understand and can’t relate to the so-called black experience.ÂÂ
Well, I am black, and I can’t relate to a “black experience” that shields and explains old-style black ministers who rant and rave about supposed racial differences and about how America ought to be damned. I long ago broke away from all associations and churches that preached the gospel of hate and ethnic divisiveness — including canceling my membership in 100 Black Men of America Inc., when they refused my motion to admit women and whites. They still don’t. I was not going to stay in any group that assigned status or privileges of membership based solely on race or gender.
We and our leaders — especially our candidates for the highest office in the land — must repudiate all forms of racial idiocy and sexism, and be judged by whether we still belong to exclusionary or hateful groups. I don’t know any church that respects, much less reflects, my personal beliefs in the absolute equality of all people, so I choose not to belong to any of them. And I would never — as have some presidential candidates — accept the endorsement of preachers of the gospel according to the most racist and sexist of doctrines.ÂÂ
ÂÂ
And I agree with him.  Because I’m a racist who finds this sh*t so f*cking tiresome that I don’t even have words for it.
I’ve been thinking about handing Barack Hussein Obama a shovel, but I see now that he has an ample supply.
Obama has now said,
“The point I was making was not that my Grandmother harbors any racial animosity; she doesn’t. But she is a typical White person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doeesn’t know, you know, there’s a reaction inbred into our experiences that don’t go away, and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that’s just the nature of race in our society.â€Â
Thanks for the clarification, Barack. Sometimes it’s difficult for us typical White people to know what you typical Black people approve of and don’t.
Now we know it’s OK to come out and say that you’re no new Messiah who transcends race, and who personifies American unity. You’re just a typical Black man.
You’re not a racist, Dan. You’re a homophobe.
Oh. Right.
Preach it, bro.
This situation reminds me a lot of what happened to Gary Hart. Oh well.
no dan is not a homophobe…i think ric locke and mcgheehee are.
they both told me homosexuality is bad, like typhoid or cancer.
but…i agree with michael mymers.
O missed the opportunity, for whatever reason.
And this means to me…the things I so hoped for..that O could opportunisticly exploit the sympathy, good will and excitement that bein the first black american president would bring to the worlds population….
praps enough good will and inspiration to a drive blades into every tyrant in the world that keeps a boot on his populations throats by demonizing Americans…..
well…..im not so hopeful.
not so much.
:(
praps he isn’t a great enough man after all.
Um, TomH, Gary Hart (a white guy from Colorado with long senatorial experience) challenged the press to find dirt on him, then was dumb enough to be with a woman not his wife, on a boat called “Monkey Business.”
Barack Obama is a black, one term Senator from Illinois with ties to corrupt donors, a race baiting (and racist) spiritual mentor, and unreconstructed lefty viewpoints. He has done everything in his power to hide who he is and what he believes under a veil of oratorical brilliance.
Other than that, though, it’s just the same.
Dan,
You and Karl have done some brilliant yeoman’s work keeping the site up in our esteemed host’s absence. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Afs.
Baracky’s speech would make a nice ABC Afterschool Special about growing up black with his racist honky grandmother but I don’t think there was anything particularly presidential or insightful about it. He’s just wrong about how all black people are hateful and anti-American like his church though. Maybe it’s just that he only knows the hateful black people, but really then I think he should widen his social circle a bit. I wonder if Mi’chelle knows any black people that don’t hate whitey and think whitey deserved 9/11? Maybe they should take a cruise or something. Travel can be very broadening.
If we expect Barack Obama to repudiate all forms of racial idiocy when’s the man going to have time to sleep? Hasn’t Obammer repudiated enough? He’s allowed to repudiate his idiot Rev friend and still call him a friend, right? This is like saying, oh, I don’t know, that Cynn must kick me in the balls everyday or else she’s not fully-completely repudiating my misogyny. She must! Yeah, right. Like it’s not enough that she calls me a creep every other day.
Childish. Tiring. Neither quaint nor sniggerish. I’m personally looking forward to the day we return to castrating the Gleens. Gads they’re gay.
Ric is probably old enough I think to get the racist honky grandmother exemption for homophobia. If not, he probably should be cause I think both age and region should be factors. It’s more like homophobia*, really anyway. Baracky is very good at putting asterisks on things.
Or just come down south and break cornbread with us over a big pile of pork chops and turnip greens or maybe some BBQ. Any good soul food or BBQ joint is going to be a good place to meet black and white people uniting over some good eats. Not a lot of discourse, though, full mouths and all that.
Sorry, thor. I had a little fun Mahamocking this morning, but this crap keeps coming up. It’s unflushable.
Is it just me or is Baracky starting to feel like he’s on the flipside of his fifteen minuteses? His campaign is all very High School Musical at this point I think. Like the cd is on the floor in the back of your minivan. The media sure would have a hard time building up any good amount of hype for another one of these speech thingers I think. Even NPR.
I sense your fatigue. I’m getting tired of being a racist too. The endurance of my youth just isn’t there anymore. At least the NCAA tournament has started. There’s some fertile ground. No bracket busters in my brackets yet, but I’ll let some slurs fly if Pitt doesn’t go deep.
I was serious about encouraging you to check out http://www.ubu.com/film/index.html They have a rare interview with Ferdinand de Celine, who is personally my all-time favorite lobvable bigot. Lot’s of cool flicks like Ant Farm and shit. See ya.
i think it is Mchelle.
like Mbuto and Mgambe.
Dan,
nishi agrees with you. It might be time to reconsider.
I think Obama never believed he would get this far. Then he got swept up in the moment, and hoped his moral authority as a black man would shield him from any damage Wright could do.
Pretty dumb having the crazy bastard on his campaign staff though.
I definitely believe Michelle O has been profoundly influenced by the
goodpastorMe? Typical bigoted honkey? ok. I guess it’s not all that bad. I get my money for nuthin and my chicks for free ‘an all.
As a typical honkey I find this conversation scary and confusing. Please Mr Obama absolve me of my guilt!!!!!
Obama’s black? I have to start paying more attention to these things. I just thought he was unrepentant socialist wannabe. Black, white, yellow, red or purple. That shuts the door on the good man right there.
Thorazine: You cited Celine! Death on the Installment Plan! Sounds like Christie, but watch out.
But the surprise as I was walking home was some interview Obama gave on Philly radio; he referred to his gramma as a typical white person. Didn’t go over well. Apparently whites are all alike now.
What astounds me about Obama is that as a clearly intelligent and savvy politician; he or his handlers didn’t see the potential storm with the racial game. Not a good sign for the anti-Mandingo.
I’d like to know why Obama thinks “typical Whites” are “inbred.” But beyond that, I’m starting to not care.
Someone said that Sen. Obama’s great speech would bring out whatever was lurking in each of us anyway. Those of us who are dewy-eyed optimists, hoping to hold hands and sing Kumbaya would get that out of it. Many people have been wanting to have a talk about race that was non-judging and honest – those people felt like that is what they got. To those people who are “just sick of black people and all their crap” they also got what they wanted: Another reason to continue with the same old same old. Too bad. I like this blog, wingnuttery and all. You guys are really really funny and clever. You have made this liberal pinko (who just happens to be a black American) belly laugh many many times (I giggled madly for weeks about the Archmoonbat). I really thought that you, of all of the people bleating on the web, would have been able to appreciate Senator Obama’s sublime address. I am totally disappointed. I know you think he is a Marxist fool, but I never thought you would buy into this shit at all.
It is a shame that your posts about Senator Obama are so revealing about where you are on race. Racial issues are not something invented to bedevil you and illicit guilt. They just are what they are. And if you can’t look them square in the face, you will always be uncomfortable in this big assed melting pot. Seriously, we need to start getting comfortable with this kind of conversation because we have what, a couple of decades before white people join black people as a minority group, with Latinos being the majority.
Instead of demanding sainthood of Obama and screaming in terror that his pastor has expressed some anger at white people, maybe we should be excited that Obama represents how far we have come from our past. We still have some work to do, but I am confident that we will continue to evolve. Sen Obama’s speech simply illustrated that we have a great opportunity to move past this shit. We can get angry and scared of each other, or we can move on. It is so simple. You don’t have to pay reparations, you don’t have to flagellate yourself for the sins of George Wallace. All you have to do is refuse to buy into any stupid, race baiting foolishness! Easy, simple, and it doesn’t cost a thing!
I noticed there is alot of wingnut defensiveness about “guilt”. I thought his speech was very non-judging. So did most reasonable people, white and black. Take of your “everything a black person says sounds like Jesse Fucking Asshole Jackson to me” earphones and listen again. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Oh, and anecdotally speaking: My cousin Melvin and his wife attend that church. He is a psychiatrist and she is an obstetrician. The church members are almost all wealthy and highly educated -. Not exactly Nat Turners, barefoot with machettes and itching to rape some white wimminfolk. I am not saying that because most of the people that attend that church are rich, that they are immune from talking trash about white people, I am just saying that painting them as some slobbering group of Taliban-ish, racist anti-Americans is WAY off the mark.
…if you can’t look them square in the face, you will always be uncomfortable in this big assed melting pot. Seriously, we need to start getting comfortable with this kind of conversation…
I am very comfortable in the melting pot, Lisa. And I am very comfortable conversing with my many friends and acquaintances- be they left, right, straight, gay, black, white or other. But none of them scream at me for being a white devil or consider all white people the enemy, and none of them go to churches or hang out with groups that do. Sorry, flowery prose notwithstanding, that is kind of a deal breaker for me.
I waited in vain for our hybrid presidential candidate to speak the simple truth that there is no such thing as “race,â€Â
Yeah, but Y’all must be white men if you speak like you just did.
Lisa, It saddens me that wealthy educated Americans would listen to that crap. It would be much easier if they were slobbering. The people in those videos are racist anti-Americans though- you can’t get past that. They are cheering the crazy anti-American crap. Neither Obama or you can admit that and that is where the trouble comes from. The speech was nice but it didn’t address the issue which you have just excused as well.
Lisa, it’s mostly just funny – for real ha ha funny – how Obama is all pretending to be completely gobsmacked by his hatey church’s views cause like they never let poor Baracky play in any racist anti-American games. But it was all a game for Baracky ‘n M’chelle from the beginning. Turns out they’re just not very good at it. But there really hasn’t been any anger directed his way from here, except for like you said, how he’s a Marxist Harvard pinhead and all with a really sorta daytime-tv-skeezey wife. Mostly just bemusement is what you’ll see I think if you take your “we are in a defining moment” glasses off I think.
Gosh, Lisa. So if David Duke were my pastor the stink of his rabid racism wouldn’t rub off on me by association? All I would have to do would be to disavow my relationship, and keep on attending services? Someone isn’t being quite honest here and it isn’t me.
Because you say so?
Being as there’s no basis for your belief — but then, there’s no basis for any of your beliefs.
I’m sorry, Lisa, but your melanin is passé, is what I mean.
Have you hugged a homosexual today, McGehee?
“Someone said that Sen. Obama’s great speech would bring out whatever was lurking in each of us anyway.”
Speak for yourself, Lisa. Then you continue.
Lisa – stuff it. what I am sick of, personally, is people telling me how I should feel about his pastor’s racist comments. Could you imagine if I, your typical cracker, AIDS and Crack-inventing and all, even began to suggest how you should feel if someone cast racially bigoted shit your way? Good God, I would be strung from a tree.
what would be bad is if Obama went just one step further and referred to a group of whites as “you people” and then they freaked out and hit him in the head with a brick.
He is a psychiatrist and she is an obstetrician.
Dr. Mengele had an MD and Dr. Goebbels had a PhD in 18th century romantic drama.
Your point?
Contrary to your stereotype, racism isn’t limited to poor ignorant white rednecks. The intelligent ones are the ones who bear close watching.
All you have to do is refuse to buy into any stupid, race baiting foolishness!
Mote. Beam. Look it up.
Unlike your cousin and Obama, I don’t spend my Sundays in a church where the “pastor” spews open, bigoted, racist hatred from the pulpit while the “good Christian” congregation cheers him on.
You know, I wasn’t even planning to vote this time around. My strong antipathy toward McCain is on record; I viewed Obama as the least of three evils. I didn’t like his policies enough to actually vote for him, but I wasn’t going to actively work against him. I figured that the country could survive one term of Obama (we survived Jimmy Carter and two terms of Clinton I, after all), and thought that the Republicans needed a wakeup call.
Things have changed.
You guys are funny. This is boilerplate spam. No one is sctually talking to you. They’re talkin at you.
Yeah, Lisa, Spies has a point. Your cousin is sort of out there, sounds like. That’s a sort of not really very Christian way to spend a Sunday I don’t think.
Here, here, Spies! I did something only 3 weeks ago I would have thought unthinkable. I visited McCain’s site… Spent a couple minutes banging around on it… And then I thought to myself, “I just can’t sit this one out.” And I was prepared to do so… only 1 or 2 short weeks ago, sickened as I was at the party’s choice.
cynn – sorry, man… google Archmoonbat… only references to PW. maybe hasnt indexed yet. or maybe a very, very sophisticated spider/bot. I dont think so.
I was just kidding, McGehee. I know you’re not a homophobe. For real homophobes are getting as hard to find as for real Marxists I think. But if you were to find a for real homophobe, it would statistically be really a lot likely that he or she would have a fairly high melanin content I think.
I noticed there is alot of wingnut defensiveness about “guiltâ€Â. I thought his speech was very non-judging.
Around here, Lisa, weh just might call that “begging the quesiton”, or maybe even projection. Do you presume that everyone is like you, LIsa? That is, like a No One.
I am just saying that painting them as some slobbering group of Taliban-ish, racist anti-Americans is WAY off the mark.
No, LIsa, that’s what you just did to your cousin, Melvin, and his wife. Why can’t you let your cousin, Melvin, and his wife speak for themselves? Is it a case similar to the one where Obama gets away with speaking for his dead Grandmother?
That part really resonates. Baracky only adopted the “black experience,” anyway. He’s from Hawaii. In 2000 it was 2.83% black. He went to Harvard. To study law. He married a for real black woman though but a lot the kind what really mostly wanted to marry someone from Harvard Law I think. Then they moved to Chicago, cause it’s a very authentically black place. And he found a radical black liberation church to co-brand with, and then he made a speech about how really really bad he wanted to be able one day to look at John Kerry and call him My President. The media thought that was special.
It’s all really just kind of weird I think.
Lisa, Lisa, Lisa…
Ha! You act like the ONLY thing that is spoken in that church is hate toward whitey. I know that you believe we obsess on you, but really we don’t. We don’t want to be you or kill you either. Gosh darn it, we actually like you. The youtubes of the venom that pastor was spewing were bad. I don’t condone it, I don’t think Obama was condoning it either. He said it was inexcusable. What more do you want him to say? “I hate that guy?” That would be a damned lie. He loves the man like family. The same way that you love that uncle who makes coon and beaver jokes about Obama and Clinton (don’t pretend you don’t have one). Oh and my cousins don’t go to church to trash whitey. I know that you feel deeply important, and that is good, but you are not THAT important. Damn. They mostly like to worship Jesus.
I think you are getting a tad self obsessed here (and ridiculously self-righteous). Did you vote for George Herbert Walker Bush, even though it was common knowledge that his father Prescott Bush was a Nazi sympathizer? Did that make a damn bit of difference to the character of the man (unlike his son, he is a fine man who was unfairly trashed by my own beloved Democratic party). Come on. Yes, Wright was WRONG, and a fucking crazy asshole to boot. But the level of self-righteous bullshit that we are reaching here on this thread is just fucking unreal. None of you would vote for Obama anyway because he IS an unabashed liberal (I LIKE his policy ideas, which should be a red flag to all conservatives) a fucking pinky-winky-help-the-poor-make-grover-norquist-want-to-vomit-liberal. But a racist? I don’t think so. So let’s leave off of the pearl clutching, get up from our fainting couches and rejoin the reality based community.
He married a for real black woman though but a lot the kind what really mostly wanted to marry someone from Harvard Law I think.
Er… What?
Obama is a skeezer pleezer I think.
J.Peden, his granny is still alive, I believe. And people ALWAYS use examples of real human beings that they know when illustrating a point. It is called an anecdote.
here go
Yes, Wright was WRONG, and a fucking crazy asshole to boot. But the level of self-righteous bullshit that we are reaching here on this thread is just fucking unreal.
So if we agree with you, we are self-righteous?
Obama is a skeezer pleezer I think.
No, I mean, what did that sentence say? I know you’re saying it said, “Obama is a skeezer pleezer.” But parse it for me. I beg of you. It is the oddest string of English words I’ve come across all day, and I am desperate to make sense of it.
Is there, like, a comma missing or something? Or a word? Or a hyphen? Something???
Yes. His racist honky grandmother is still alive except now people look at her funny in the grocery store cause they didn’t know she was such a disgusting bigot.
Happy that is pretty awesome. I like that you condemn all forms of racism. I wish there were more people like you to stand up to Michelle Malkin, Pam Geller and their racist sycophants.
You bit; this should be interesting. If not, oh well.
Let me put it this way. If you could even explain merely this clause, I would be relieved:
but a lot the kind what really mostly wanted
Oh. You made my day, What person. But all that means is that M’chelle was one of those what was for sure going to marry a doctor or a lawyer. That’s not a black thing, it’s a hoochie thing.
Obama’s people are so desperate they will grab onto someone looking into his passport record like it was Scooter Libby in the study with teh candlestick. I just want to know were they out to get him because he was a black man or because he was half white?
Oh. No, Lisa. You’re sweet but no I’m not a race person. I can only handle this for maybe a few more days cause it’s really just kind of foreign to me but even the parts I get are a lot tiresome I think. I’m more one of those that don’t need anything beyond Baracky’s economic policies and his peculiar attitude about Iraq and dictators generally to really really not want him to become president.
OK, I see at least one pattern here. I think part of the confusion is that you used the pronoun “what” where the pronoun “who” was in order. That’s issue #1 in my confusion here.
I’m still way lost on the whole “though but a lot the kind” part, I must confess.
Don’t worry — I’m sure I totally agree with you. I typically agree with your posts. I’m just confounded by this sentence. This is merely a syntactic issue. That’s all.
For real homophobes are getting as hard to find as for real Marxists I think…
Screw the queers, I say.
I always enjoy the spirited discussions here. I almost ALWAYS disagree, but I always take away something new and interesting to ponder about your point of view.
Have a good evening.
Ps. HONKY?! LMAO. I should stay awake just to see you use “jive-time turkey” in a sentence, Happyfeet.
Here it is again: He married a for real black woman though but a lot the kind what really mostly wanted to marry someone from Harvard Law I think.
Is this what you’re trying to say?
He married a for-real black woman, but she was the type, really, who mostly wanted to marry someone from Harvard Law, I think.
Do black people just not even watch Tarantino movies? I think Tarantino does way more to bridge the divide than all Baracky’s speeches put together. Pam Grier’s character vs. Bridget Fonda’s in Jackie Brown. Compare and contrast. Useful exercise I think.
mcgeehee u an ric BOTH said homosexuality was like a disease, like typhoid or cancer.
i can look up the comments, i doubt dan has deleted them.
that implies that you both think homosexuality is …..”bad”…..and perhaps “cureable”…
like the brits “cured” Alan Turing maybe.
:(
That’s just the kind of shit that drives us mad — the lies repeated as if they’re facts. The small grain of truth to that story — that Prescott Bush worked at a bank that had investments in Germany — has been blown into him being a Nazi supporter. There is no real evidence of that. It’s a lie invented to smear the Bushes, and I doubt you’ve investigated it at all, that you’ve bought into it because it “sounds right”.
And yet he openly admires a clearly racist man. Cites him as an inspiration, lets him conduct his marriage, lets him baptize his children, exposes his children to this man’s racist rants. He distances himself from unspecified statements only after claiming he’d never heard any of them — and that being proven wrong, because Obama cited one of those rants in one of his books.
If a Republican had such strong ties to a white supremacist, the left would not only be baying for his head, the Republicans would have handed it to them. Just look at the furor over Ron Paul’s ties to racists!
I honestly don’t care if the few instances of Wright going off the rails were the only instances (though the audience reactions indicate they’re not); that someone would think that level of anger and hatred is appropriate for a sermon is troubling. That someone aspiring to the presidency would be comfortable in that environment is troubling.
That so many people are willing to excuse it is even more troubling.
Check out the crowd, ‘feets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHTdYuRZeyU
I think I saw Obama’s Grandmomma up in there.
So let me get this straight.
Obama is on the hot seat for associating with anti-American, hate-mongering, bigots.
He then compares that to his grandmother being scared of black men when she is on their turf.
He then tries to make the case that race relations need to be fixed by him because he is hip to both worlds.
This guy actually has a shot at the white house?
I have no idea who Pam Geller is, but if you think Malkin’s a racist, you’re either massively ignorant or have a very idiosyncratic definition of racism.
Tarantino maybe. But it’s BRAVO and TLC that will bridge the divide.
You act like the ONLY thing that is spoken in that church is hate toward whitey.
So tell me: how many racist slurs is one allowed to spout from the pulpit?
Give me a number, Lisa.
. Did you vote for George Herbert Walker Bush, even though it was common knowledge that his father Prescott Bush was a Nazi sympathizer?
That’s what’s technically known as a “lie”. It was made up out of whole cloth by some moonbat running a “newspaper” out of his closet. It’s just as much of a lie as Wright’s claim that white people invented AIDS.
Ted Kennedy’s dad, on the other hand, was openly pro-Nazi.
Yes, Wright was WRONG, and a fucking crazy asshole to boot.
I ask again: how many Christian Identity services would you allow a white politician to attend and still consider him qualified to be President? One? Two? Twenty years worth?
That’s what I thought.
If being anti-racist means ANYTHING, it means refusing to tolerate racist slurs from ANYBODY, black or white.
The same way that you love that uncle who makes coon and beaver jokes about Obama and Clinton (don’t pretend you don’t have one).
The fact that you’re incapable of imagining a white family that doesn’t have a closet racist in it speaks volumes, Lisa.
Oh. Sorry, What. You’re right. I have a very limited range of modifier thingies. Funny story kind of… before I delurked here I had picked up Jeff’s thing he does with the word which. I used it all the time like in email and on messenger. Which, when I started commenting here I think it made a few sort of not very bright troll people accuse me of being a sockpuppet. So I stopped that one.
Lisa… See? Exactly! This sort of let’s all go sit under a tree and rap about what’s going down with race in America is very anachronistic-feeling to me. Very bell-bottomsy and even like before black light posters.
What – one may not bother with the understanding of the Happyfeet. Happyfeet is a bit like the personification of a Zen Koan. In the contemplation of such a thing one loses what one is seeking. Or, if you prefer, think of Happyfeet as … erm… in terms of photon dynamics in a double-slit experiment. Really quite amazing, it is.
may have ensured both that the super delegates don’t yank his nomination, and that public anger over his falsehoods about what he knew and when is chalked up to racism,
oh feets the supers have no choice.
mccain vs bilary would be a blowout.
all the MSM’s horses and the MSM’s men couldn’t keep a lid on the arab/muslim donors that paid bill 500 mill for his library. in the run up to the general that would kneecap bilary on iraq against mccain.
and it wont hit the frontpages until right before the general, cuz bilary is workin to keep it underwraps until she locks the nom.
their is no wat the party will nominate bilary.
better a damaged cadidate than a doomed one.
Oh, and Lisa?
I hope McCain picks Michael Steele as his running mate. It’d make it a lot easier for me to vote for him. I’d love to see a qualified black man as President or VP.
Also, does What remind anyone else of SEK? Something about his cadence and a certain gentile fastidiousness…
Lisa,
Like a lot of left-liberals you either missed the point or are deliberately avoiding it.
Remember a preacher called Hagee? Involved with McCain? The entire Left — including, no doubt, yourself — performed the act referred to as “going ballistic” over it. In the process you established a principle: if a religious figure endorses a politician, the politician’s opponents are entitled to cherrypick, distort, or flat lie about the beliefs and doctrine of the religious figure’s church in order to attack the politician, and if the politician fails to not only disavow the (notional) beliefs but to repudiate the support and in fact ask the religious figure and his followers not to support him, he (the politician) can and must be assumed to buy in fully to the worst and most “hateful” parts of the doctrine in question.
Them’s the rules. You made the rules, you and your allies; you painted the stripes, erected the goalposts, set the bar, and hired the referees. Hagee’s doctrine is, in fact, a valid if unsavory extension of a strain of Christianity that’s been around for centuries; his church is a thousand miles from either Washington or Phoenix, and John McCain never attended that church or heard a sermon; but, by the rules you and your allies established, Hagee’s support means that McCain knows, understands, and agrees with any fraction of Hagee’s doctrine you and the MSM find less than attractive. You said so. Repeatedly.
Now there’s been a turnover and the other team has the ball. UNFAIR! UNFAIR! CHEATING! BAD PEOPLE! BAD! BAD! Fooey. Your game, your rules, your playing field, your goalposts.
You and your cousins go to church to worship Jesus. So do Hagee’s congregation. Jeremiah Wright doesn’t spend all his time preaching hate-Whitey; Hagee doesn’t preach “kill the Jews” at all, and in fact explicitly supports Israel. But none of that matters. McCain is an opposing politician, which entitles you to calumnify Hagee and use the result to tar McCain. By your rules that entitles us to do precisely the same thing with Wright and Obama — and remember: McCain never attended Hagee’s church. Obama’s been attending services there for what, twenty years?
You do not get to reserve specific political tactics to yourself alone. A tool fits any hand that can pick it up, and hammers are useful for all nails. You set the rules. Play the damn game the way you defined it.
Regards,
Ric
@ #47
Gosh Mrs. Douglas, my favorite, Hot-Water Soup !!!
Sorry, Lisa… you do strike me as a bigot. I don’t in fact have any uncles like that.
You act like the ONLY thing that is spoken in that church is hate toward whitey.
I’m willing to accept that the YouTube videos do not represent the overall experience at Trinity, because I have never attended the church once, let alone for 20 years.
However.
Trinity is on board 100% with Black Liberation Theology, which is an unholy (IMO) alliance between Marxism and Christianity. Marxism divides the world between the oppressors and the oppressed, and assigns Absolute Moral Authority to the latter crowd while damning the former. The problem with that worldview is that to be “good,” you have to be oppressed, so BLT tends to entrench and maintain victim status for its adherents so that they will always have a boogeyman to blame for their own bad behavior. I am speaking generally of Liberation Theology here, not necessarily about Obama or United Trinity.
They mostly like to worship Jesus.
I am certain beyond all doubt that Jesus would not be on board with Liberation Theology. His contemporaries believed that the Messiah would liberate the Jews from their political oppression by the Roman Empire, but he instead offered them liberation from their spiritually fallen state and did nothing about Rome.
Jesus is, of course, not happy when one group of people oppresses another, but he also is not happy when oppressed people seek to reverse the power structure, thus to wreak revenge on their former tormentors. Liberation Theologists don’t get this, and that’s why I’m not on board with it, regardless of the color.
I don’t know the degree to which Obama buys into the “hate whitey” vibe that BLT teaches: I suspect he’s no more hateful than the average mortal. As if it mattered to me, because I was long ago NOT on board with Obama because of his leftist politics. I’m never enamored of political figures in the first place, so I’m not disappointed or outraged or smug or whatever.
I’m not sure what you mean by “self-righteous bullsh*t” on this thread. Maybe black ears are unused to this kind of discourse. :D
Thanks, B Moe. If Baracky could only come up with a YouTube of him popping on Donahue I think he could get past a lot of this. Methinks Obama poppeth not though.
pinky-winky-help-the-poor-make-grover-norquist-want-to-vomit-liberal
Lisa, conservatives are happy to help the poor but they prefer to do it on their own terms with their own money. Taking other people’s money and giving it to other people is not charity.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out if the situations were reversed most people on here would be denouncing any Republican attending a racist church and the same people on here defending Obama would be castigating us as racists. Well now they are still here saying we are the racists. Uh someone please give me a clue I know I am probably the worst write on here but seriously help me out.
You like Celine after actually having read Death on The Installment Plan? That’s one of a few ways to short-climb yourself to PTE stature, possibly-totally-effable. My gf would permanently blind me with her thumbs if I called out your name while she was on top so let’s limit talk of Celine else my lions will start to burn.
And/But who was it just weeks ago that was saying Obama gets to astroglide b/c the press didn’t have a critical eye on that black guy? Yes, the same one-eyed who too often post here. Now the trogs can’t stop threading PW with cut and pastes from the same MSM they supposedly so loathe. Besides, just because everyone hates being referred to as typical, aren’t most of us? Therefore the man’s choice of words need not be judged too harshly. I remaing steadfast in my pro-mandingo warrior love.
LFFLR – the beauty of it is there is no obligation for the rules of this type of game to be static. Well, at least for one side of the aisle.
Methinks Obama poppeth not though.
Nope, it looks like when they flipped the coin for his dancing gene it came up white:
http://wonkette.com/343393/obama-vs-gregory-the-dance+off
Oh. I agree, nichi. But I never took Hillary very seriously as a candidate. Mostly what was funny was how NPR invested so much of their yammering in her for years and then sort of did the all the Democratic candidates are wonderful! thing and then totally froze her when Baracky caught his wave. Yes, it was misogynist. Maybe that’s hard to see, but in the context of NPR, I think there’s not a lot of ambiguity in how you interpret that. Black trumps Woman.
*nishi* … sorry
I think it’s more like half-black trumps half-woman.
I think it made a few sort of not very bright troll people accuse me of being a sockpuppet.
In the interest of accuracy, “from East of Suez,” was how I phrased it.
Oh. I should also say I figured Hillary had a lock on the nomination for a long time really, just that I never seriously saw her as ever possibly being president.
Thor…
I’m not seeing that. Look here… these peeps didn’t break the story, they’re reacting, desperately trying to frame it ex-post facto. Really – click through the results and note when the story blew up for them…
Now it’s a teachable moment, but even for NPR this is pathetic and brainwashy.
They did have Michael Meyers on the show, so I’ll try and get through it so I can hear that part. But really, how Americans talk about race in public and in private is not journalism. A Weekly Reader teacher’s supplement maybe, but not journalism I don’t think.
I have a good bit to say in reference to Meyer’s piece, enough for a post.
I love the Power Line take though – clearly showing Obama’s use of typical was stereotypical…
Astroglide in Blew.
Unelectraglide in Blue
–But the surprise as I was walking home was some interview Obama gave on Philly radio; he referred to his gramma as a typical white person. Didn’t go over well. Apparently whites are all alike now.
– When I read that Lisa I spaced on the ghost of Liberal self-guilt plank-owner screeds in the dawn of post modernism, namely the “Some of my best friends are Black”
punking that started it all, even before Robert got himself shot in that LA kitchen. If I recall the perp was one Sirhan Sirhan, proving that Jimmhi really wasn’t the first apolistic asshole in the Jihad on the West. But maybe my memory is faulty.
– At any rate I don’t share your angst. As I said the other day, all I know is I’n getting mighty tired of being broad brushed with, and by, the two factions, Left and Right, that seemed locked in a life and death struggle, and hell bent on dragging us all down with them. That and being called racist names by people that simply refuse to let go of race as their holy graile, except from their cold dead fingers.
– If not for them, the Jesse Jacksons, and Al Sharptons, who cannot afford the damage to their careers by letting go of the whole racist bullshit scam, you’re right, it would be easy.
– Blaming the majority of Whites for anti-social behavior on either side of the divide is not a good start. Your serve.
Oh. Before they get to Meyers you have to sit through this hippie guy who keeps calling the USA a “white supremacist nation.”
When white people fully understand and accept the painful reality that they are indeed “the problem” really is a pretty good distillation of NPR though really, now that I think about it.
Things have changed.
since when? anyway the group of u circling around just doing the MauMau on Lisa, is revealing. By most accounts, Obama’s speech was terrific but the racialists spew forth again and again trying to specifically accuse Obama of racism. As we’ve noted, former racist Democrats have long left the party and joined the Republicans. Hailey Barber (R) has long giggled about how the Republicans own the White vote. I don’t think you are racists but ‘racialists’ in that you’d use any means to destroy the “opponent” (socialist democrats or democratic socialists) including gender bias and racialist divisiveness…Now, who is actually fixated on Obama’s pastor? YOU or Obama? It’s obviously the ‘wing-nuts’. McCain has allowed his supporters to call Hillary a ‘bitch’ and certainly is allowing his supporters to designate Obama as a black racist. (and Hillary’s allowing it to happen just shows how racialist she is in order to get elected by any means possible). Barber and others have used racist rhetoric to dominate the Southern white vote. By not acknowledging those who disagree with you their valid points as Lisa has you are perpetrating the past which is of course more conducive to an unthinking entitlement for white conservative Americans over all others (esp. Mexican illegal immigrants, that are probably growing your food for you and tending your gardens or whatever>).
Actually, I didn’t give a damn about Hagee btw.
And Prescott Bush didn’t just work at some bank: He was a partner and thus owned it. And he had to be forced to disassociate his ties to Nazi enterprizes by a law (Trading with the Enemy act) During WW2….even when his own son would be later fighting the Nazi’s allies (Japan). Prescott Bush was a collaborator” and probably derived the family fortune from successful investments in Hitler’s Germany: http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm
As I said, much of PW is in de Nile, deep in muck, although very intelligent muck. global climate change denial, increasing economic inequality denial, neo-fascist Military Industrial Complex denial. To say some obscure N.H. newspaper made up the Bush/Nazi connection out of the air is an example of extreme denial.
Also, associating the modern Democratic party to the former racist party the Solid South and of Joe Kennedy isn’t accurate as the party has changed to one of the “intelligenzia” as Karl Rove said: the base of the Democratic party are people with graduate degrees! And poor working people if they ever vote.
Happy, you’re such a “hippy” (bell-bottomsy and such..) go get your Volvo, us old hippy’s still got ’em.
Pam Geller
My volvo will be an ironic volvo, datadave person. With leather seats. Wow. Bush’s grandfather and Obama’s grandmother could have had nasty hot fascist sex, sounds like. That would have been quite the YouTube I think.
hmm, I rather ‘do’ Pam Geller.
It’s okay to have a Volvo and be a Republican, a large portion of Vulva drivers are. Just don’t let some poor Republicans know it. One got mad at my 500 dollar very used Volvo and said Vermont’s going to the Socialist Sweds. She was a fellow Justice of the Peace and I had to tell her it only cost 500 dollar and was very old..(it looked good).
Swedes, sorry.
–“the base of the Democratic party are people with graduate degrees! And poor working people if they ever vote.
– Only an effete intellectual would aver that having a degree means wisdom of any sort. I have two degrees. The difference between us is that I know from experience you sorely lack, that formal education does not wisdom make.
– Your stock in trade is bullheaded narcissism, obsessed with being “different”, so you join a collective that throws you out of the cult in a heartbeat if you dare to engage in independent thinking.
-Some wisdom, that.
More satiric than ironic your Volvoric.
Um. Vermont is socialist, datadave person. Also it has pretty trees.
I think that Mr. Obama is …
tangled up in black.
I beg to differ with those who think it’s going to be Hillary as nominee.
She won’t run to lose, and she won’t run as the Democrat who split the Black Democrats from the party. If McCain doesn’t implode, he’s going to cruise against either Obama or Hillary. It will take Obama resigning from the race to see Hillary win. The tension in this campaign isn’t weighing on the candidates – there are super delegates that are already double gunning grain alcohol and prozac over the possibility they are going to have to put their names on the line come the convention in Denver. MSM personalities are in almost as bad shape; if they pick the wrong Narrative, they will be out in the cold come the nomination.
Because black does indeed trump woman. If your party is wired that way, at least.
But what do I know. I am, after all, just a typical American male. (Sioux/Italian/Norwegian. Oh, and “other”) and everyone knows what we’re like.
–“….Also it has pretty trees.”
– But not so much of the maple variety these days, no doubt due to the global pedophile warming they engage in “H’up thah”. As a consequence they get a great deal of their “Vermont maple syrup” from Ohio.
– Another example of “fake but accurate”.
Oh. A friend of mine brought me some Vermont maple syrup from when she went to a fat farm there. Really, give me Mrs. Butterworth’s any day. Almost ruined my waffles it did.
Misspelling swedes is at the bottom of the list of things you need to be sorry about Datadave.
I’d fisk #100, but frankly, it’s late, and I don’t have the energy for such a spectacularly futile gesture.
Let me just summarize:
You, datadave, are a jackass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
a nice tidbit from the past….
lee, you contribute so little. poor thing.
fisk pam geller? spelling?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking
ok. didn’t know about this neoWord. eh, despite the trendy BS associated with the “bloggosphere”, It’s obvious that whatever derivation “fisk” comes from is unimportant as to it’s repetition. it’s that’s it sounding like Fist. Fisting is an especially odious sexual practice.
Hey, I’m homophobic and racist, but I try to not be so those things as I am “liberal” and probably will vote for Obama. And I’ll be a sexist for Hillary if need be. Now, it’s natural to be homophobic and racist, just don’t get let it get to you and become a conservative.
actually, Vermont Maple syrup has strict state inspections that check to see if it’s really produced here. Only occasionally does an unethical businessman try to import cheaper Quebec syrup to sell (inauthentically). Ohio does have a lot of maple but it’s dying if global warming gets a grip as it it is apparently thus Canada dominates the production more and more.
Always should be someone you really love is all. That’s essentially conservative I think. Oh. And you really don’t have to talk about it after I don’t think.
Oh. I thought we were talking about sex and homophobia. Now it’s back on breakfast condiments again. I can see Vermont having strict state inspections either way though.
– dataless – you really should trial run your bullshit memes on something other than a Classic Liberal site. We know all your tricks. We invented them in the 30’s. Old news.
– Wiki-pitiful. Lets see. The last we heard about the Proggs personal talking points xerox machine, the moonbat owner was threatening to shut down the site if people didn’t stop correcting all the Marxist lies her and her fellow travelers spent so much time inventing. I don’t blame her. That sort of thing must be really taxing.
– When Wikibat puts back some of the things like the Ketchup sluts Doctor Daddy being a founder in the FREELIMO Communist party, I might consider giving the site a tumble. That redaction did nothing to help horse face in his train wreck run for the WH, but still they do it, assuming everyone is as stupid as they are. The mark of a true effete’ snob.
– What? You didn’t know about that? Well you better get hustling, not spend you time here boring us all with your shop worn partisan propaganda. Lots of things to learn and see out there in the “real” real world Mr. datavoid person, as feets might say.
“Always should be someone you really love is all” in reference to what? maple syrup and sex? I was entranced with the Celine video from a more literate PWer above. ‘course Celine got into some deep dodo with the Vichy govt at end of ww2.
also, appreciate Utah guy’s remarks as he seems open-minded and conservative but not stuck in a rut. Conservative and open-minded that’s okay. And lee had some valid things if he hadn’t gone off on a tantrum.
Unlike “bbh”? >, oh, the big bad Liberals are Fascists are they? Keep saying that Bullshit fella, and be a laughing stock. wiki is the best on-line encyclopedia bar none…Open to editing and some minor tidbits are displayed not so well, I feel for the Serbs for example, as the interest isn’t there. Gimme an alternative? I think the founder is a guy(?) De-cyphering the last paragraph is not worth it, me thinks. it’s pretty late and I am taking another long weekend off for Easter and putting in a new floor for she-that-can-not-be-named. (the only reference that happy may be alluding to.)
italic break? at least unlike the old NYTimes Forums of 1990s they won’t spill over on the next post.
Ahhh it does not get nay better than this, lets see the Dhimmi’s rip each other to shreds before their convention then convention rolls around and they have a nice Barbecue uh I mean riot ala 1968 and then they select their candidate and her is were it gets even better because lets see, the superdelegates pick the hildabeast and they lose the black vote or they select Obama and lose a big section of women, Jews and independents that normally lean Democrat any way you look at it McCain wins the general. Sweet sweet irony with a side of racism! Pass the popcorn!
Spies, Brigands, Pirates: The fact that you are comparing Jeremiah Wright to the Christian Identity Movement tells me everything I need to know about you.
You sound like Al Sharpton to me, sugar. You are screaming for blood, and you won’t be happy until Barack Obama pays you reparations for his associations.
Well at least now we know that EVERYONE has a little Al in them.
– Ah Lisa – Al’s one of a kind….If they outlawed the race card tomorrow, ole Al baby would have a coronary………
I am just glad that the majority of Americans, black and white did not buy into this whole story the way you guys did. You may not think it is fair, but people just don’t see this the way you do. Maybe we are all deluded. But we are in the majority.
Obama or Hillary may or may not win the election. But it won’t be because of you and what you think. You got what you wanted for the last eight years, and no one trusts your judgment anymore. So you can scream “he blew it! he didn’t repudiate Wright enough for ME” (which sounds like some shit Jesse Jackson would say before extracting some huge payment from a corporation who wasn’t sorry enough about racism). However, in the eyes of most Americans, it was more than enough.
We are going to put a very smart, talented woman or a very smart, talented black man in the Whitehouse. I am very pleased with how far we have come as a country.
Yay America!!
– Actually Lisa, in some ways I wish you were right. As an Independent, I take no joy in having a Rino shoved fown our throats, even worse if he wins by default. But sadly the truth is the Dems, through their senseless intramural bickering, and hair-brained cross purposes, are doing just about all they could dream up to hand it to him. I think we could survive 4 years of grand oratory, with the usual inability for Socialists to do anything of real importance, and it would be a chance to maybe achieve some marginalizing of the Whrights of hate, but it looks highly unlikely at this point.
My Magic 8 Ball says: Outlook not so good. As does Rasmussen.
And you could read the Meyers piece, Lisa, because “He didn’t repudiate Wright enough” isn’t really central to it. Also, somehow I don’t think that Meyers falls into the “got what he wanted for the last 8 years” category.
We’re going to put a far less than ideal President in the White House. The question now is which of these three will screw things up least.
I am too, but identity politics has nothing to do with it.
Spies, Brigands, Pirates: The fact that you are comparing Jeremiah Wright to the Christian Identity Movement tells me everything I need to know about you.
What, that I don’t excuse racism no matter what color the racist happens to be?
You’re a hypocrite and a racist, Lisa.
Sorry, “honey”.
I *hope* Lisa’s thinking of it as a matter of degree. Personally, I think anyone dumb/hateful enough to spout their racism in public — and in a freaking church! — should be sufficiently racist to be anathema.
Apparently not.
Is it to late to run happyfeet for Mr. Unitey President guy? Sweet Jesus, ‘feets (the olive skinned Jew one, not the Nat X looking dude), you just slayed the whole beast with 4 words.
do you know wat is really is swell?
the rehabilitation of the word meme.
when i was around last year,a lot of ppl made fun of it, and would never have used it.
now it is SOP.
Dawkins invented it.
E.O.Wilson wanted to them “culture genes”.
That seems kind of stupid now.
call them “culture genes”.
The guy does have a way with words. It would be really cool if he would do the evening news.
In breaking news! Dave you don’t say much, but when you do, you don’t say much.
So. Lisa. Thomas Sowel too white for ya?
btw, none of u actually think O believes the US gave black ppl aids.
u are just tryin to superglue Wright to O so he’ll lose.
like the left trys to to superglue hagee to mccain.
because both wright an hagee are just awful, and gross, the yuck factor.
i think HRC wud be a bad president.
mccain wud be a neutral president…things wud pretty much keep on keepin on.
O cud be either spectacular, or awful.
im just less risk adverse than u guyz.
that risk taking stuff is endemic in the young.
My Magic 8 Ball says: Outlook not so good. As does Rasmussen.
Pablo hunnie, i really like the rassmussen markets best.
its bleeding edge, less responsive to outliers, wilder effect, spoofing.
its competitive, an uses bidding theory and games theory.
its awesome.
Rob Crawford. Did I not say that Wright’s statements were racist? What more do you want? Do you want me to call for his immediate lynching?
What is your litmus test for “outraged enough”?
“I’m sorry, Lisa, but your melanin is passé, is what I mean.” Hate to break it to you, but black is the new black. But then wingnuts have never been known to be on the cutting edge of what is fashionable. You are less Jimmy Choo and more Buster Brown.
My friends and I have been laughing our asses off at the faux outrage. I am loving the new wingnut “zero tolerance for racism” policy. If anything, this has at least hightened your racial sensitivity levels. Good for you.
I have been waiting for someone to mention this, but I guess it does not factor for you: I know that it often comes as a surprise to certain people that older black people who were treated pretty crappily by white people during some very shameful times would be pretty angry at white people. But NEWSFLASH: Some of them are. There is no way at all that you could EVER in your LIFE understand what they experienced, so dont even try. But you might want to tone down your little comfy, privleged fake outrage and remember that Jeremiah Wright is not just pulling outrage out of his ass as some bullshit commenter on a blog. He actually experienced things that would probably make you or I, typing comfortably on our macbooks, crumble. Before you go there, this is not an excuse. But it is a reason, not a particularly justifiable reason (he should be working to heal rather than avenge what was done to him and his generation), but a reason nonetheless.
Spies, Brigands, Pirates: I disagree that I am being hypocritical. I am not one of those people who has a knee jerk reaction whenever someone says something insensitive. I have represented myself as such in any of my comments. NEVER. I didn’t want Don Imus fired and I don’t boycott companies for every perceived slight. You know, we can actually be against racism without being wildly reactionary. So, maybe if you stop talking to me as if I were some stereotype of a black liberal and instead talk to me as an individual, you might actually stop posting utter stupidity. You are quick to call someone a racist. I am going to Christen you Al Sharpton, because the shoe fits. Henceforth, when I say Al Sharpton, assume I am addressing you. Okay? Good. Talk to you later Al.
“Liberation theology is a school of theology within Christianity, particularly in the Catholic Church. Liberation theology focuses on Jesus Christ as not only the Redeemer but also the Liberator of the oppressed. It emphasizes the Christian mission to bring justice to the poor and oppressed, particularly through political activism.”
What is so evil about that? Shit, were I a Christian, I would definitely be one of those kind. That sounds amazing. I will never understand why wingnuts find championing the poor and oppressed to be so odious. Sigh.
Rusty, I like Thomas Sowell. I was introduced to him by my favorite economics professor back in college. He is an old school wingnut, but one of the greatest writers and thinkers alive today. Read his columns religiously. What the fuck kind of question is that? Is George Bush too fucking Mexican for you? Karl Rove to Chinese?
What. The. Hell?
Sowell is not crazy about socialism for the wealthy, bailouts for corporations, wingnut authoritarianism, theocracy, or American military expansionism. What do YOU, my crazy friend think if him?
Before you go there, this is not an excuse. But it is a reason, not a particularly justifiable reason (he should be working to heal rather than avenge what was done to him and his generation), but a reason nonetheless.
Your “reason”, despite your pre-emptive protestations to it being called and excuse, is simply an excuse.
When spies starts accusing people of rape improperly, and inciting race riots, Lisa, you might have a point. Until then, you will just look like an ass.
Nobody thinks that championing the poor is odious, you lying twatwaffle.
Weez is jus to dumm to unnerstan wut Baracky wuz tryin to say to us. Please learn us, Leeza.
or iz we jus “typical” whiteys whoz skeered uv all black people like Baracky told us yesserday.
Are you “the left” now nishi? I ask because you invested quite a bit of time in that pursuit. As for Obama, I think the 20 years spent closely tied to the man is a better glue than anything I could come up with.
No, it can be spoofed.
Um, is that a compliment, or an insult, or both?
I am a “typical white person now”. Lisa – are you a typical black person? I mean, of course stereo-typical ‘an all?
Like what? He seems to have done quite well for himself, without too terribly many obstacles placed in his path, right here in mean old America. So tell us, what would make you crumble that Wright has experienced?
Lisa – Might want to read up on how the Church actually sees Liberation Theology. But don’t take my word for is… take my Pope’s word for it.
What is so evil about that?
http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ratzinger/liberationtheol.htm
Well, there’s a bit more to it than that.
Care to guess who wrote that?
Let me qualify that: other than Marine boot camp. That one I already know about.
Lisa–
I’ve no doubt that Reverend Wright has experienced racial prejudice that would make us cringe. By all means, let him state his case. Let him state it as powerfully as he likes. What he may not do, and maintain our regard, is to lie. He may not lie about 9/11. He may not lie about HIV/AIDs. He may not reproduce for the delectation of his flock any of the libellous canards that seem to be central to his very convenient version of “the way things are.”
There is no excuse for this. And there is no excuse for the willful ignorance that is eager to gobble it up. And there is no excuse for condoning it, if we are truly to move forward. It is not a matter of exaggeration. It is a matter of despicable, bald-faced, anti-American conspiracy mongering and race baiting, and whatever in the world it might have to do with Christ’s message is beyond my comprehension. It is ugly, evil, vile, vulgar, pestilent and stupid. So don’t you come here and play the race card on the one hand, suggesting that we’re racists, and on the other one make apologies for Obama’s association with these pigs, because it’s just fucking insulting.
I was way ahead of youz idiots calling this election for McCain and don’t uz forgets it. Anyway, I can hope can I (?) and maybe send Barack another cash infusion. (not much, grant u). It’s sorry to see you guys jumping on the McCain bandwagon. Like being “Independent”…yeah, right. Neo-Fascism is alive and well and mostly is the Republican platform, whether it’s McCain or grabbass lazy Fred Thompson. Sorry, to say it’s such a pervasive movement that it slid over into the Democratic party ala Clintonism. Neo-Facism is all about war all the time, war profiteering and socialism for the Bears of Wall Street.
Thank You, Lisa for mentioning our economic situation which is a hell of lot more important than some obscure pastor who mostly gets it correct about history of his flock. Obama’s measured words denies any note of extremism and he is somewhat of a work in progress as all great politicians were…thinking of Abe Lincoln who like Obama never fixated on one particular solution but used his enlightened mind to pick through ideologies and solutions to best achieve a worthy goal. The fact that Obama made a leap further than even Lincoln from a more or less ‘broken’ home, non-father, racial conflicted self awareness and go beyond even the barrier of a huge ocean…like how many Hawaiians make to the states and become a Senator of another state? Obama is the American dream. Instead wingnuts want ol’ plain vanilla candidates who have been always from perfect families, above average incomes, boring etc after etc. People who are ‘made’ with family connections (ala McCain btw) rather than people who are ‘self-made’ like Obama.
JD, admit it, Lisa’s a nice person so why get ass-holy about it? Just debate honestly and not get dirty when she nixes an argument.
The fact that this boring little racialist attack upon Obama is early in Obama’s campaign is a plus. He’s done the vetting thing pretty well. Now if he can overcome the Republicratic Billary’s attempts to scuttle the ship, McCain might just blow it and Obama could be the 21st Century President. it’s uphill and major money isn’t going to bet on it…. but even if Obama loses …it’s progress that he got this far.
datadave – I don’t even know what to begin with…
this boring little racialist attack upon Obama
plain vanilla candidates
dave – I’ll save you some time. next time, just post “Dave Comments Here” and we’ll know what you would have gone on about… within at least +/- 3%.
Neo-Fascism is alive and well and mostly is the Republican platform,
Prove it. Liar.
“What he may not do, and maintain our regard, is to lie. He may not lie about 9/11. He may not lie about HIV/AIDs. He may not reproduce for the delectation of his flock any of the libellous canards that seem to be central to his very convenient version of “the way things are.—
and what? Dan, Republicans never lie? Your measured tones are indicative of self discipline, good education and you’ve been fair in allowing others to speak. I am not so sure Obama is guilty by association. Preachers are generally not educated in the sciences: I have heard all kind of Americans say similar untruths like flying saucers are believed to be real by some of my best friends….but I am not going to send them to the stake for it. Maybe I should not like Obama because he goes to church where lies are a way of life? Obama has denied Wright’s most egregious statements as you’ve repeated them above. Obama, like you, is a well educated man. Wright obviously isn’t. But I don’t think degrees are that important, self-education is also good (my reading up here helps too).
Now off to read about Thomas Sowell, and try to get some work done.
liar, liar pants on fire….jeesh. go to any dictionary and read the definition of fascism and compare the platform. (and disregard the lies about caring about working people and such…and follow the money)
macbooks? okay. that’s economic inequality!
Once more you expose your ignorance: there’s nothing new about the right having zero tolerance for racism.
As for Wright having a “reason” to hate — so what? Lots of people have reasons to hate, but don’t. How does having been mistreated lead to him telling his congregation lies like claiming AIDS was created by the US to kill blacks? How do the actions of individuals who mistreated him justify his apparently pleasure at the murder of 3,000 people most of whom he’s never met?
And beyond that, what kind of man of God wallows in his hatred and anger? John Paul II forgave the man who shot him. Wright, on the other hand, condemns everyone who shares the skin color of those who mistreated him.
What does it say about Obama that he found this kind of person an “inspiration”? What does it say that he’s gone to Wright’s services for 20 years? What does it say that he claimed to have never heard anything objectionable, but clearly has heard one of the “controversial” speeches — because Obama quoted it.
No, dave, you aren’t a well educated man. Wright, OTOH, has two Masters degrees and a Doctorate, not counting the 8 honorary doctorates.
Please send Obama some cash. That $12 a month you’re wasting on DSL might be a good place to trim the budget for O.
“As an Independent, I take no joy in having a Rino shoved fown our throats, even worse if he wins by default”
calls himself an independent… what a hoot. cypher that sentence will ya? Does he want a Real Republican or what?
Again, your ignorance is showing. There’s nothing “odious” about helping the poor and oppressed. What’s odious is forcing other people to help them.
Then there’s the little question of just who are the “poor and oppressed”…
Preachers are generally not educated in the sciences
ummmm…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science
“Preachers” … at least of the Catholic variety are more educated by far than the average bear. Never met one without a couple of degrees. Not that there’s anything wrong with self-appointed “preachers” with GEDs. I mean preaching is about emotion rather than reason… right? right?
“John Paul II forgave the man who shot him. Wright, on the other hand, condemns everyone who shares the skin color of those who mistreated him.”
Rob = slam dunk.
Dave is so conspiracy-theory-minded and (I guess this goes right along with it) so credulous, that I really think the proper place to send him for reading is, given his recent fascist-bingeing, is Dave Neiwert’s site. Go there, dave, drink it all in, and try not to notice just how crazy you both are.
JD: Twatwaffle is so 2007. You are so behind the curve (nice to know you read Gawker though). If you want to sound clever, try to at least keep up.
Dum: It would amuse me to see you put those posts to music and do a little jig in blackface. It is not funny as a comment online.
Pablo: How about being denied access to basic rights that you and I enjoy for the first half of his life. Apparently segregation, fear of lynchings, being treated as sub-human are not really a biggie, right? LOL. That is hysterical.
Dan Collins: You are pointing a finger, with three pointing right back at yourself. At no point did I excuse Wright’s statements. But you seem to think that because I am not prostrate, begging your forgiveness, I am condoning hatred. Please. THAT is insulting. Your hysterics unwittingly reveal your arrogance. It is not what Wright said so much as our LACK OF PROPER HUMILITY ABOUT IT that is killing you. Obama condemned Wright’s racist statements and his divisive rhetoric. I have condemned his hateful rhetoric. But that will NEVER be good enough for you because it will always seem too uppity and dismissive for you.
Unfortunately, you are not going to get what you think it is will satisfy you. The era of that kind of privlege is over. We don’t HAVE to kiss your ass and throw each other under the bus for your blessings. America likes Obama and what he stands for. He may or may not be a good president, but he has started a conversation that everyone except you and your screeching, regressive brethren is eager to have . Good for America. This country has is ready to move on, bumps in the road and all.
Go ahead and stay outraged. You are part of the fringe echo chamber on this one Collins (hey but maybe NPR will invite you back to talk about how victimized you feel by Wright).
Oh, one more thing: I can employ whatever rhetorical devices I wish to use. You don’t have to ask my permission to do so, nor do I have to ask yours. Remember that.
For the blackface, you’re going to have to sashay over to firedoglake, or visit the ruins of Steve Gilliard’s site. None of that going on here, Lisa.
“John Paul II forgave the man who shot him. Wright, on the other hand, condemns everyone who shares the skin color of those who mistreated him.â€Â
That would be a beautiful statement if you didnt regularly champion and cheerlead the racism and racial profiling of Muslims.
Please elaborate. What rights was he denied while growing up in Philadelphia?
u gotta be kidding if you think theological degrees are worth much. I don’t know what his degrees are in…but Huckabee’s got him some too. Me? self-learned, mostly. achtung! buddy. Seems like the great leaders whether Churchill, Gates or Stalin never bothered with that shit.
when you can’t defeat an argument, you just get into personal putdowns whether it’s occupation, money, or whatever. Fix your arguments instead. Democrats and Liberals do it too…so it’s just the American way of lazy non-critical thinking. U guyz have such a hard time with Nishi’s rap but seem to be mezmerized or something as you can’t defeat her arguments mostly. Lisa, same problem. Me, you hate as I haven’t seen a counter argument yet. Prove to me that modern Republicanism isn’t fascism.
Borrowing to feed an ever increasing military machine when it’s unneeded? Promoting Jingoism and Fear at the same time? Increasing economic inequality. These are all the marks of fascism. The one discrepancy is Maybe Rights of individual choice…but considering forced pregnancies, Oligarchic forcing of individual of payments to health care corporations (a favorite idea of the DLC and RNC). And universal acceptance of no-fault car insurance with forced payments to Oligarchic insurance companies….etc. Individualism is dead in america and fascism: corporatism is all too alive.
enoch root. u sound so old and learned, now some anecdotes to explain your odyssey from rock n roll hounddog and back to religious orthodoxy. Maybe some other time. gotta work. think about it though.
12 bucks for dsl. yeah, I wish.
Neither do we. Cool, ain’t it? In fact, we don’t give a shit what color you are. We’re only interested in your positions.
No, we defeat them completely. Unfortunately, that never fazes her in the least. Most of what she says is pure assertion, with no support at all in fact. When asked to support, she pretends the requests never happened, either.
So, in the arena of pretend arguments, nishi (and you) have opened up a whole pallet of whoopass on us, dave.
I guess how important that is all depends on where your priorities are.
not sure if Dan was on NPR, that was Jeff, me thinks, Lisa.???? haven’t followed everything here. If Jeff came back it’d just too much to read. Rather like it as it is. I’d wish economics was more discussed though.
His first Masters was in English.
It’s your uncanny ability to be so utterly wring nearly every time you post, dave. I’ve just pointed that out twice now, and your only response is more of those personal putdowns you claim to have a problem with. It’s too bad you get your facts wrong in those too, or I might be bothered instead of just amused. And if you’re spending more than $12 for DSL, you’re getting robbed.
Disregard 165. I apologize. That WAS a beautiful statement. And you are right. Some people dealt with their experiences better than others. My mother was way less bitter than my father about segregation. But they both were really nice people who did not want to damn white people to hell or anything.
Lisa – We don’t HAVE to kiss your ass and throw each other under the bus for your blessings. erm… never had my ass kissed by a black person before. So, I guess, a fuck you is in order. You bigoted ass.
I don’t buy that at all, Lisa. Any whitey saying similar things about blackey would be just precisely, exactly as disgusting, and any candidate who associated with them . . . Ron Paul, I’m looking at you, babe . . . I would treat just exactly as I do Obama.
What has Obama said about this, Lisa? He’s said, in effect, that he denounces any outrageous and divisive things that his pastor may have said. Does he really mention what any of those things might be? No. And why not? Because out of the other side of his mouth he says in effect that black America is entitled to its delusions because of its peculiar history. He goes on to state that this theology is in the mainstream of black thought. Were I a black Christian, I imagine that I would feel a bit queasy about that.
He does not address the question–you do not address the question–why someone would find it necessary or desirable to employ lies to communicate the ideas that he wished to. But I know the answer: it is because he does not want to admit that he’s been endorsing racial demagoguery.
I don’t want to stay outraged, by the way. I don’t really relish the feeling.
Mostly, I’m fucking annoyed that this kind of idiocy still exists and is promulgated.
Let’s move ahead, shall we? by making it absolutely clear that there is no place in our political discourse for this kind of nonsense.
“Neither do we. Cool, ain’t it? In fact, we don’t give a shit what color you are. We’re only interested in your positions.”
So why are we having this conversation? Why aren’t we having a good, solid liberal (me) vs. conservative (you) argument about something that is truly important? Take the guy at his word on race and commence excoriating him on his policy ideas. This is just boring and distracting.
I am not so sure Obama is guilty by association.
Do you intentionally miss the point every fucking time, dd? Obama did not deny the most disputed claims, he pulled a classic pseudo-apology out whereas he refuted that which you have taken offense to.
It is boring and distracting but Baracky Hussein Chavez is not distracted. He’s thinking ahead…
Also Lisa is my new favorite quasi-troll.
datadave – read St. Augustine’s “Confessions”. Clearly not as smart as that dude was meself… but it speaks to the point. Oh, right… back to your question… so the “thing” that brought me to be more attentive to my faults was Grace. And I am still, of course, a lump of shit sinner. maybe the worst kind there is. proud. self-confident. oft-times obnoxious. it is, really what comes out of the mouth that defiles. So, I am kinda fucked… yes, a hypocrite. But hopeful. Particularly today, as the Christ I nailed to the Cross knows how fallen I am. And he promises that if I am diligent to the best of my ability and with contrary heart, I can participate in his Glory. Now it is up to me to let him take up residence every day in my heart and to live into my Baptism.
One last thing before I go. Everyone here who considers him/herself a Christian. Please listen: you have heard it said that Blood is Thicker than water. Christ suggests that in fact that the waters of Baptism that unite Christians of all denominations into the living catholic (Universal/not with a big “C”) Church bind us in His name far beyond our color or other allegiances we might feel we have. Christ’s Blood which was shed for us was the Catalyst which turned that old adage on its head forever… from that moment on water, rather than blood (of family, tribe, ethnicity), came as the ultimate Trump. The New Covenant was born of Blood. But the New Covenant is ultimately about Water.
I actually think black people (some black people, anyway) have every right to be angry over how they, or their ancestors, were treated by white people. What I completely reject, though, is that any black person has a right to be angry at me for their suffering.
The problem with all of this anger, I think, is that it doesn’t lead to anything except anger for its own sake. Anger begets anger, and on and on. This has never, ever been what Christianity is about.
I’m not sure I see an end to it, honestly. Black people have been nudged together into closed communities for a long time, and now there’s internal cohesion. There’s nothing to reinforce the us vs. them mentality quite so much as clear cultural and geopolitical delineations between us and them.
I think once everyone gets that most of us, white and black, are culturally adrift, maybe race won’t be quite so much of a factor, anymore.
Yup, that’s me, always bashing the Muslims. Or maybe you’ve got a racism/racial profiling problem of your own there, Lisa.
That’s between me and that tall, muscular gal I picked up outside the bar last weekend.
I acknowledged that I didn’t know what his degrees were in but obviously mostly theology. Now English? eh. maybe the same. I did a upper division class in Thomas Mann’s work because I liked an essay he wrote called The Coming Victory of Democracy”, which was tough: talk about a reading list then there was another 400 level English class where the prof was drunk mostly and graded on the quality of tits to be honest as I was the only guy there. But i’m not the sexist, that guy was.
I would imagine the ratio of homophobes to general population is probably a little bit thinner among people who grew up in California, too.
It’s kinda funny, but I’m glad I read Lisa’s comments on this matter, especially since I’d thought Obama might have done better if he’d said something like, “Okay, so I joined this Trinity Church when I moved to Chicago just to try to get a handle on the Poor Inner-City Black Experience: What do you people expect out of me?”, or something to that effect. It would have gone a long way toward validating his years in that church to a Po’ White Trash Boy like me.
Lo and behold, Lisa comes along and informs us that that particular Trinity Church is ass-deep in rich inner-city blacks. No wonder Obama didn’t say what I’d hoped he might; although, since he’s already so accustomed to running in CYA Mode, maybe he should have tried, and hoped that people like Lisa wouldn’t have blown that act for him.
I had a conversation about Obama’s Speech with a co-worker of mine yesterday, a hybrid Black/Latino/Woman type (whichever she can use to sound the most offended) who said, “He’s right; we do need to talk about race relations; there’s too much racism in this country!”, to which I replied, “I keep hearing about all this racism, but I don’t see it”, and she stormed away in a huff before I could say, “After all, there’s currently a better chance that a black man will be elected President of the United States than there is for a white man or a white woman.”
What sort of racism is still troubling the black community, Lisa, that isn’t self-fomented?
I guess I think alot of the folks on the left are missing ther point. The point for me, was blacks can go to this church, believe the nonesense that Wright’s spewing, have their babies baptized by him, etc. Blacks can make race an issue, can do their best to make white folks guilty about their “hidden feelings” towards blacks, can argue discrimination still exists and there’s been little improvement.
There’s nothing wrong with black’s expressing their opinion- there is something very wrong with a presidential candidate who validates these views through attendence at Wright’s church over a 20 year period. He should not be a candidate period, just like any white candidate who attended a church where racial hatred towards blacks is preached, should also not be a candidate for president.
the important part of this entire discussion, which many on the left seem to be glossing over, is Obama’s a candidate for president. And as such, he will be and should be held to a higher standard then the average ordinary citizen in this country, whether they are white or black.
do a little jig in blackface.
Racist
but he has started a conversation
Bullshit. He is engaging in the same old / same old that the modern liberals have given us for decades. Pandering, calling people that disagree with them racists, etc …
That would be a beautiful statement if you didnt regularly champion and cheerlead the racism and racial profiling of Muslims.
What race are Muslims, Lisa?
Prove to me that modern Republicanism isn’t fascism.
Classic dd. Make wild assertion couched as fact. When called upon it, rather than offering proof, demand that a negative be proven.
Qualifications are another relevant matter. Obama’s favorite claim to appropriateness for the office he seeks is that he’s got such great judgment. Wright, like Rezko, speaks to his judgment. It’s an appropriate topic of discussion, especially given that his second favorite qualification is that he’s going to be able to unite everyone. Do you suppose he’s going to be able to get his spiritual adviser and inspiration into the Kumbaya circle?
I think it has been made clear Mr. Collins. Your points are well taken.
And you and I both know that a line-item veto of each of the pastors particularly vile statements would open each of them up for individual examination. Which is a really STUPID campaign tactic. Any politician with half a braincell will want to go with the vague “mistakes were made” tactic and try to get past it ASAP. That is good politics. Just give a blanket condemnation for all statements that may or may not have been offensive and try to get it off of the front page.
And I am not a black Christian. I am a black agnostic. I can look objectively at the good and bad activism comes from the pulpits of majority black churches. Obama’s candidacy has opened up discussions among liberals about the free passes black churches are given for anti-gay and sexist rhetoric. My position is that they should get the same treatment as Pat fucking Robertson, when they say the same kind of shit. But Christians, black and white always seem to feel that because they are Christian, they should be able say whatever the fuck they want. It pisses me off. But I am swimming against the tide here. 95 percent of African Americans identify as Christian. They go to church on Sunday, and believe the bible is the literal word of God. When you think you are on the right side of the Lord, you are not trying to hear some non-believer tell you that you are espousing bigotry.
enoch, I like you and the bunch of fuckers here even if I disagree about 180 degress directionally and politically. Grace is a good word. Many on the left side feel amiss w/o a ‘church’. I am not sure if Obama isn’t that different than the lot of you. I seem to be attracted to Catholics in my personal life w/o much choice in the matter. A natural conservatism I admit is part of my nature…but I fight it all the time as I also am way simpatico to ‘underdogs’ in general.
Michael Meyers has an even better idea.
Trollery is an underrated art, Happyfeet.
st. augustine’s confessions…man, you never sinned as much as that guy.
Pablo, you can bet your ass that Wright is doing some soul searching right about now. LMAO! He might just do a George Wallace/Robert Byrd and repudiate his racist past.
Wouldn’t that be special?
Why, yes. That would be very, very special. Worthy of a comeback sermon, even.
datadave – appreciated. I think it was Milton, a decent enough Prod, that said something along the lines of (and this is a horrible retelling of it) “untested virtue is empty”. So, dave, the struggle is important to get where you are going. whether that be ultimately conservative or liberal. I for one think God intended both. He seems to like the Cosmic tension. Maybe the spectrum he uses for stability is endemic conflict.
Lisa, then all I’m saying is that perhaps that’s a really, really good place to start raising people up. Even assuming Obama doesn’t believe as they do–and I don’t believe he does–what has he purchased with his acquiescence? Is it worth it? Is it better than Hillary’s pork-belly futures and disappearing documents?
I want these items opened, not because I oppose Obama, but because I oppose the ignorance; because racism is only a portion of ignorance.
Lisa, Happy’s actually the BEST if he’d just break out and do it once in awhile. But I think he might actually have a real job. Not sure about the rest of PW’s regulars.
Pablo, you have a pretty good argument against Obama there. I salute you, but have you noticed our Presidents from the recent past. Reagan included. They all had their slimy sides. If anything Obama seems fresh in comparison. I guess I have gotten jaded since my days of reading Thomas Mann.
Oh. I am a black agnostic a lot too.
I’m still getting a volvo though.
Should; sometimes do. Which brings us back to our thread. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell do, in fact, get exposed to the shitstorm of public opinion when they say stupid things, and so did Wright. Although, in truth, few would have taken note of Wright if not for his association with Obama. But there is a relationship, and so there is interest, no matter how amused that might cause your friends to become.
You don’t want to throw that in the mix, I advise. There’s all kinds of things that I and my friends might find acceptable or at least unremarkable, amongst ourselves, that you and your friends might find offensive and wrong. Certainly the reverse is true.
Thanks, Enoch. I don’t practice any religion, but I can see the difference between the two approaches, and I know which one I prefer.
Comment by Lisa on 3/21 @ 6:28 am #
Rusty, I like Thomas Sowell. I was introduced to him by my favorite economics professor back in college. He is an old school wingnut, but one of the greatest writers and thinkers alive today. Read his columns religiously. What the fuck kind of question is that? Is George Bush too fucking Mexican for you? Karl Rove to Chinese?
What. The. Hell?
I just wanted to know where your bigotry ends. Apparently its all encompassing. I know its a cliche’, but cleche’s are are long lived because they happen to be true; You’re known by the company you keep. It is difficult to have a discussion on race when one group or the other keeps encouraging the output of racists like the rev. Wright.
This ia yet another example of faux-outrage by Lib Lisa. A safe political response is just quite fine for her, so long as it gets it off the front page. Telling.
yuck – the name dropping is what disgusts me most. in the rock n roll circles, I think they still refer to it as Star Fucking. and no one looks more pathetic than a Star Fucker.
Are you truly this ignorant of the way things are today? Republicans have lost their positions over comments much less offensive than Wright’s.
We’re not asking you to apply any standards we don’t apply ourselves.
I actually like Juan Williams, whose complexion I wouldn’t even imagine if I weren’t constantly reminded of it.
I like his commentary on NPR, just in case the above isn’t clear.
Which, I say, may just be part of the problem. I mean, I kind of (not saying completely, as I’m only partly Black Irish) get the whole proudly black thing, but at some point that’s got to be put away and replaced with just being people.
LMAO @ a comeback sermon.
I’m just kind of doing a dave thing, here. I haven’t had enough caffeine, and I’m a little hung over, so it all kind of fits.
Policy-wise, he’s a screaming moonbat. But on the racial stuff, he’s right on target. He’s the real unitey-healer deal. And he’s hammering Obama in this kerfuffle.
Baracky can discern deep wells of racism all over the place but deep wells of oil in Alaska and along the coasts? Not so much. It is not premature to try to articulate that the remedy is drilling our own damn oil. Socialist wanker.
on my third cup of Joe, w/o the irish cream and jameson.
Happy, that is a slippery slope you are on. First a Volvo, then you will be quoting Naomi Wolfe drinking fair-trade lattes, attending Al Gore’s lectures, and wearing hand-tooled sandals made in Brazil by the indigenous Yanomami tribe.
I don’t think they like being called Yomamas.
wtf, happy. Envio-politics isn’t your strong suit. Domestic oil would be even more expensive. Actually the commodity market might have had a huge selloff…too bad if I’d the money I would have made 300 percent in the last two years. But it might be a time to buy again if oil and gold go much below the 100 and 1000 threshold’s respectively. Commodities take a good stomach and lots of cash. Stomach’s okay, cash not! digressionary analysis.
The 300 percent only applies if you didn’t invest. If you did, the return would be much smaller.
It’s kind of the investment equivalent of the One That Got Away.
hasta. Yomama’s under the bus. A VW bus most likely. HIPPYS! ciao.
Oh. NPR bitch-slapped Juan Williams doing that “we read your letters thing” yesterday. All the letters they picked said he was a dick.
Oh, no. I am allergic to climate change and fair trade coffee, but my sister is sending me some cheap knock-off Izod/Polo thingies she got in Peru.
You can’t even tap Green energy, if it’s in eyeshot.
slart, you’re right about the volvos. But I have a neighbor named Earl, works at the Volvo dealership during the day and in his garage at night. I am blessed. But no other car has the longevity and over all parts on the older ones are not very expensive unlike the Toyota trucks I had. Volvos: Good driving, Safe and cool looking but have an escrow account in reserve. NOW, I am going!!!
They didn’t much like Juan talking to that Bush fucker either. Not very unitey of them, is it?
I’ve left jobs over much less than Juan puts up with there. But I didn’t have any books to sell.
Slart, you want to read the context. I WANT pastors like Ken Hutcherson to ge the same amount of crap that Pat Robertson gets. I find it patently unfair to call Hagee or Robertson homobigots or misogynists and then tiptoe around Hutcherson because he is black. He is a bigger asshole than Robertson (I know, it seems impossible that one could reach such heights, but alas). I was not asking for Wright to get a pass because he is black either. He has been ROUNDLY condemned. And he should be. I think we agree on this.
I remember early on in Obama’s campaign he was running around with some “ex-gay” severly homophobic asshole (McClurkin was his name, I think). He got slammed for it, but there were some pretty hard feelings between the secular and the religious supporters over that it. Sort of a precursor to this current tempest.
I love Juan too. But sometimes he is a bit of a sycophant. I think that comes from years of abuse on Faux News. But I think he is making some decent points on the Obama thing – the Obamamania needs to be squelched, so that the voters can look soberly at whether this guy is up to the job of being president (winning against McCain, first and foremost)or not. He is right that folks have gone round the bend with the uncritical, slavish adoration of him.
Dan @ #175,
Are you suggesting that we “moveon.org”?
What a brilliant idea! I wish the people who thought up the concept could follow through on execution, though.
he was running around with some “ex-gay†severly homophobic
Another fine example of the cipher being all things to all people.
Cheap knock-off polo thingies (LMAO!!!). Beware, they will get you too. I think there might be a correllation between my sister’s trip to Bejing, where she aquired several Gucci and Prada knock-offs, and her eventual move from center right to left.
LOL @ Yommamas. No, but you can say whatchootalkinboutwillis and they will give you a pair of hand-tooled sandals.
Hand-tooled is a strange expression.
Hey. It’s Good Friday. I totally forgot. That’s kind of a tautology though really I think, but y’all all go have an extra good Friday anyway. Ohnoes. I need to psyche myself up cause that means Sunday is Easter, which means I go hang with the happy family with the kids in their dresses and such even though they’re not really Christian and I’m not really that person that does the hang with the happy family thing on one of my precious God-given Sundays. And ain’t that America? Or it could maybe just be very L.A.
HA!!! Yeah. One could go to town with that.
However, it is important for us on the left. We cherish things that are lovingly made by indigenous peoples. “Hand-tooled” or “hand-woven” items are the best. They are expensive, which is important to let people know that that PhD in 17th Century French Lit did pay off. And, they let people know that you care about preserving the cultures of native people in a real and substantive way. When you call us elitists (tools, perhaps) who have no idea of the cultures that we natter on about in the name of diversity, we can point to our “hand-tooled” sandals.
You know what? Fasting makes me hungry.
Somebody ought to do a study on that. And I hope that those natives are out there happily picking fair trade coffee beans for me. Because I do so love my coffee.
White people and black people aren’t the only groups in America, and certainly black people aren’t the only group with grievances against the majority.
It seems to me the Irish and Asian-Americans have done the better job of moving on. It has been to their advantage, I think.
I think there might be a correllation between my sister’s trip to Bejing, where she aquired several Gucci and Prada knock-offs, and her eventual move from center right to left.
Why?
All those movies about Boys’ Town helped, I think.
I think if John Kerry would have made a speech about the Orphan Trains, he’d be president today. He missed a victim opportunity.
from name dropping to credentials. yuck. a Star-Fucking Elitist… good one.
like the left trys to to superglue hagee to mccain.
Are you “the left†now nishi? I ask because you invested quite a bit of time in that pursuit.
no…i was just horrified at hagee. hes gross, wrights gross, they are both yucky.
one question pablo hunnie, no duckin.
do u honestly believe that O thinks the US gov is injectin blacks with AIDS?
do u honestly believe that O thinks the US gov is injectin blacks with AIDS?
I don’t think he does, but I want him to be brave enough to stand up and say “The US gov is not injecting black people with AIDS”. He won’t do it because he might lose votes, and he needs the white-people-hate-you voters. So then the question is…what will they want from him when he’s in office?
cuz i dont think mccain believes the Antichrist will be the next president of the EU.
it is political expediency.
You can’t really say O is a theolib…the problem is BLT’s principles are identical from core democratic party values.
grievance politics, conspiracy theory, colonial-imperialist-racist-america theory, racist divide and conquer stategy, redistribution of wealth, all predate BLT.
Sure, both came from marxism.
;)
yes maybee i agree.
yup pablo rasmussen markets could be spoofed…but it takes a bunch of work to work to do that.
regular polling is much more susceptible to spoofing.
No, I don’t think he’s batshit insane. But a fair potion of his crew thinks that, and I’d like to see him tell them in no uncertain terms that that particular belief is batshit insane and that they ought to stop believing it. A uniter would do that.
That’s not even a real parallel, nishi. Obama supports an organization that foments and disseminates anti-American propaganda, and then he tries to cash in on it by pitching himself as America’s salvation, the One who will make the world love us just like they used to even if no one can remember when that may have been.
It’s a lot like The Music Man really. The Robert Preston one. Not the Matthew Broderick one. But Baracky says there’s trouble, that the world hates America. They hate us so bad they think we started AIDS and deserved to have all our peoples die screaming on September 11. Halp us, Baracky! John Kerry says Baracky will make them like us more better cause he’s black and all, but maybe he’ll just tell his hatey church friends to shut their damn mouths.
“do u honestly believe that O thinks the US gov is injectin blacks with AIDS?’
I don’t honestly believe that O thinks that a child can be born to a virgin.
“One of these is not like the other! One of these things just isn’t the same!”
LMAO at #248.
Ya, one of them is an accusation of a horrific crime, the other is a miracle that has been a part of the Christian religion since very early in its history. I’ve never heard anyone be particularly upset at the idea of the Immaculate Conception, but I have heard people bay for the blood of people they think are giving them some disease.
That someone couldn’t understand that one of them is bad and the other is OK is sad.
Lisa(s)- it’s nice to have you both here, but it would be helpful if one of you chose a distinctive name. One could be Lisa–cousin at TUCC and one could be Lisa- member of TUCC. Or whatever. But it’s hard because I don’t know which Lisa is talking, and I still want to know why Lisa-cousin thinks her sister’s trip to China would turn her into a left-leaner.
One last anecdote:
When I was in college in Southern California, I lived in the hood for the first time (USC is RIGHT in the middle of the ghetto). I once suggested to a neighbor (he was complaining about the police state) that perhaps if he disengaged in his crack distribution activities, his police encounters would decrease exponentiall. He replied “When they stop injecting us with AIDS and importing drugs into our neighborhoods, I will stop selling YAYO (crack, in some language indigenous to South Central Los Angeles)!!!!” His entourage (yes, successful crack dealers, like successful rappers and celebutantes, have entourages) heartily agreed and high-fives were had all around. I laughed, but stopped quickly and continued on my way after my laughter was met with stony silence.
You can imagine my dismay at seeing this very thing actually delivered from a pulpit…
I’ve read everything up to here except for anything by nish and DD (some scans, I will admit. It’s like passing an accident on the highway…) and stopped reading Lisa at the third “wingnut”.
So… do I leave outraged, or can I just chuckle all day over “That’s between me and that tall, muscular gal I picked up outside the bar last weekend.”?
Smart money is on chuckles.
Maybee: I am a regular reader but I dont always post. Usually I am having such a trememdous stroke at the right-wingery that I am unable to move my hands to type a reply. Or I am laughing at something funny. Often the right-wingery is extremely witty. I never said I was a member, I think someone responded erroneously that I am a member of that church because I stated that my cousin is.
The purse reference was my attempt to continue my lame joke. See posts 201, 214, 220, 228…
Lisa- maybe you haven’t read the other thread, but there is another Lisa posting here. So I’m having a hard time telling “Lisa” from “Lisa”.
I’m starting to wonder if we’re not starting to see how gleeful the media will be with the first defeated African-American presidential nominee as a consolation prize. America just wasn’t ready and all that. I don’t think that’s a ratings-winner, but NPR seems to think so.
I’m starting to wonder if we’re not starting to see how gleeful the media will be with the first defeated African-American presidential nominee as a consolation prize. America just wasn’t ready and all that. I don’t think that’s a ratings-winner, but NPR seems to think so.
It will be great for the We Are Such a Racist Nation pornography market.
Nah. I think the non-crackpots are amazed that he got this far. The usual suspects (that white public figures always run to when they get caught dropping the n-bomb in public) will blubber about it. But who cares what they think (besides the white people who run to them for absolution when they get caught dropping the n-bomb in public).
They finally did the Margaret B. Jones story this morning, and they made it resonate as much as they could with the holy words of Baracky.
That’s just a partial transcript. They do that a lot, when they bother to put transcripts up at all. For some reason they don’t print the part where the guy says Margaret is lucky if she doesn’t get her head blown off for messing with Crip reality. You kinda have to hear that part to get it.
“I’ve never heard anyone be particularly upset at the idea of the Immaculate Conception, but I have heard people bay for the blood of people they think are giving them some disease.”
But they’re both mythology, and neither are true. But if you want something horrible, then lets talk about killing the first born of every Egyptian. Thats certainly horrible. And also not true.
Oh. Actually that was wrong what I said. You can see on that page where they’ve done the Margaret Jones story a lot already. I guess they just wanted to recast it so they could amplify the themes of Baracky’s letter from that jail he’s in.
aw, i was just jerkin u around on that jesus genoptype stuff.
dont be so touchy.
i dont care if u guyz wanna believe in the immaculate conception.
just dont expect me to believe in it even if my priest or shayyk does.
or can I just chuckle all day over “That’s between me and that tall, muscular gal I picked up outside the bar last weekend.�
oh…ok
its fine for ppl here to be homophobic and advocate “curing” them like Alan Turing was “cured” i guess.
at least Turing’s not an eevul homosexshual any more.
he’s dead.
real funnie TMJ.
lotsa yucks.
This is good, from Mark Halperin’s The Page:
Painful things Hillary Clinton Knows (or should know):
5. Obama’s skilled, close-knit staff can do things like silently kill re-votes in Florida and Michigan and not pay a political price.
7. The Rev. Wright story notwithstanding, the media still wants Obama to be the nominee  and that has an impact every day.
10. She can’t publicly say more than 2% of all the things she would like to say about race, electability, beating McCain and experience.
I don’t think there’s really any for real homophobism here, nishi. Can you put together some links or something? And Alan Turing is dead cause British people are uptight. I’m not sure how that relates to George Bush’s America, really. He’s a pretty live and let live kinda guy.
Obama supports an organization that foments and disseminates anti-American propaganda
then Trinity shud be prosecuted and….oh….wait!
freedom of speech, maybe?
kk feets
ill be right back with the linkage, right mcgeehee?
did u forget wat u said mebbe?
ill be happy to remind everyone.
i think ric remembers actually.
No – they’re way free to be as anti-American as they want, nishi. It’s just hypocritical for Baracky and M’chelle to rub our noses in how much the world hates us when they give tens of thousands of dollars to an organization that spreads anti-American propaganda.
while u wait, some khayam
the moving finger writes
and having writ
moves on
nor all your piety nor wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line
nor all your tears wash out a word of it.
Oh. Well maybe links would not be very helpful really. Let’s just break the cycle of hate right now I say.
nishi, he wrote that before the internets were functional. It’s different now. Um. Really. Let’s not go there.
Condoleeza Rice isn’t running, silly.
That would be way cool if she were the VP pick though. I think she’s good people and classy.
Michelle Obama hates you? Wow. She seems so nice.
I have to pay more attention to her subliminal messages of hate.
She is pretty classy, in my opinion. Very bright, pretty and articulate. And she wears great shoes. How can a person who wears Jimmy Choo’s and Manolo’s be hateful?
Sorry, after a while it is hard to take seriously.
I’m not sure how that relates to George Bush’s America, really. He’s a pretty live and let live kinda guy.
no feets, otherwise a justice of the peace could perform samesex marriages.
GW’s constitutional amendment defining marriage was all about telling homosexshuals they are wrong, bad, inferior.
I like Condi too. Though she is providing cover and operating as a tool for the authoritarian, war-mongering crazies. I can’t help but admire such a lovely and accomplished woman. What a waste of her indisputible genius to have to go down with the fetid rotting ship that is Team Bush.
I think that she came into her own just as a much classier, cleverer, more admirable crowd (Skowcroft, Baker, Bush Sr., et. al) were retiring to write books and golf. She got stuck with the clown posse that is currently occupying the whitehouse. Poor thing.
not actual citizens…
second-class
What are you on about? M’chelle is very proud of me. This week anyway. But still, she and Baracky have done a lot to bankroll their church’s propaganda about how America invented AIDS et cetera and also how the chickens came back and killed all those people that totally deserved to die. But then she goes out and says ohnoes! The world hates us! Baracky and me can make them like us again though.
That’s really depraved and skeezey I think. M’chelle is just a vile person, and a bad mother I think.
It’s sad to think that not one of those native people will ever earn a PhD in French Lit since they’re too busy playing the role of sandal-making monkey in your culture zoo.
I’m off to read some Celine. I need that today.
samesex marriage is inevitable.
u guyz shud be more graceful.
Like ballet dancers?
…and would have to obey the same laws as the rest of us.
George Bush can’t legalize gay marriage, nishi. That’s a state thing. He really doesn’t have a lot to do with it, and I seriously doubt he cares much one way or the other. Are you seriously trying to make the case that George Bush has somehow impacted gay peoples’ self-esteem? That seems sorta not very zeitgeisty, and really counterintuitive. The idea that they need to play Wedding Barbie to be more equaller seems to derive from something like a surfeit of self-esteem, really.
feets, mcgeehee and ric locke were tryin to be sweetly reasonable an persude me why samesex marriage would be wrong.
the mask slipped and showed the hateyface.
they are homophobes and they know it.
so then we have mcgeehee pretendin he didnt…and havin some yucks about it.
the web preserves what ppl say.
i think i should retrieve it so he doesnt forget.
That was before it became obvious you’re not reasonable yourself.
This ought to be good.
You’re not really up on this “in the past” vs. “in the present” thing, are you?
Because someone today screaming that the US is plotting the murder of blacks today is a lot different than legends of prophecies and acts of God. That their claim is objectively false is no help if they believe it, and by preaching it lead others to believe it.
Again, can we hold everyone to the same standard? Because if we can, then I don’t ever want to hear a peep from the left about what some ostensibly conservative religious figure said. The religious left has a great big beam in its own eye called Black Liberation Theology, and until they address it, well, I won’t take their objections to anyone else’s attitudes seriously.
nope feets.
GW was tryin to make an end run around the legal branch with the marriage amendment, just like terri’s law.
eventually a state will pass samesex marriage and then ppl will go there.
but their homestates will refuse to recognize the marriage and then the Supremes will step in.
then samesex marrriage will be legal for whole country, by fiat.
nishi- you know the GWB would be fine if Justices of the Peace performed same sex civil unions. Just like Barack.
That there are not more places where same sex couples can marry is due to state laws, not GWB.
But you know that.
I am not a homophobe, goofball. And I don’t particularly really care if gay marriage were to become a legal sort of thing, I just think it’s a silly in-your-face thing more than reflective of any genuine yearning gay people have to adopt heterosexual mores (such as they are) of love, monogamy, fidelity, and age-appropriate bonding. Of course, maybe gay people in like Branson or Wichita could maybe pull that off more better. But really, from my vantage point mostly I think it would just be a farce. And that’s before all the family law nonsense gets ahold of it.
Nishi, while you’re building your case against me, don’t forget to note how I attended Westboro Baptist Church for 20 years and was frequently seen nodding in agreement as Rev. Fred Phelps spouted off about how God hates fags.
feets i dont think ur an anything ophobe.
u are brave and funnie and have unique skull furniture.
i cant get into the thread hehe, ill have to do it late tonight when i cant sleep.
i seem to have a lot trouble gettin into old threads where the comments have gone over 225 or so.
dont worry mcgeehee, i bookmarked the post so i wouldnt forget.
mcgeehee said gay was like a disease. so did ric.
you know the GWB would be fine if Justices of the Peace performed same sex civil unions.
oh…guess i misunderstood the purpose of the Family Marriage Act then.
my bad.
In those exact words, Nishi? Or was that your interpretation of what I said, thus proving there was no point trying to be reasonable with you?
unfortunately, constitutional ammendments are pretty hard to pass.
hey, voila! instant federalist.
GW wasnt very federalist when signed terri’s law at 1:00 am.
w/e
ill just find the quote tonight
that would be best i think.
If you time it right, I might not be around to laugh at what a fool you’ll have just made of yourself.
hmm…i think u said typhoid…..but it could have been ric.
Well, jeez. Some of that a lot, not McGehee in particular but generally at least, gets the racist honky grandmother exemption, nishi. It doesn’t mean what you take it to mean I think, well only if you insist on seeing gays as a monolithic identity group.
If there’s a disease it’s probably in thinking gay people are all We are Borg. We like Penis. Gay marriage is an issue designed I think to make them all tribal like that. That’s why NPR is all over it. Gays have lots of money to give to radio stations, and it would be great if Democrats could take them as much for granted as they take black peoples. But it’s a really anemic view of the human spirit and of personhood I think.
Oh. And also lesbians. I always forget about them.
I am still not convinced that Black Liberation Theology should be viewed as some kind of creepy terrorist movement (maybe because I am black, perhaps if I was white I might be nervous). I see it as more similar (similar, not exactly alike – so calm that jerking knee, son) to a hardcore Zionist. They believe in a relgious imperative for empowerment to a people they see as historically oppressed. Now, in college I read James Cone’s Black Theology and Black Power. He is the founding father of the black empowerment movement. I am not sure how useful all that shit that happened in the 70s as a result of that was. But I don’t see black churches as hotbeds of secret cabals of black panthers (I dont know, I only occaisionally attend at the invitation of some bible-thumping relative or friend). Again, though I have read James Cone, I am not clear on what you are calling “Black Liberation Theology”. I am not sure most black church goers see themselves as part of that either. I have never, EVER, heard my relatives come home from church fired up about white people. I do know that they still sing songs and talk about a the return of Christ coming and eradicating the racial injustices that people in the world (along with all of the other injustices) endure.
We will see. From what I know, that shit fizzled with H. Rap Brown and Angela Davis in the 70s. It sounds like hysterics…..like maybe someone is searching for a Nat Turner and His Scary Group of Avenging Negros. But perhaps I am wrong.
i dont see it that way feets…i guess cuz i have gay friends.
and my cuzzins are in middle school…there is no prejudice against gays watsoever in their crowd.
some of their friends are quite openly gay.
its a nonissue.
every generation has less bias, less prejudice.
teh gay are citizens too.
they are entitled.
Nishizonoshinji sounds like he might be impaired. When someone exhibits really odd behavior, I feel like it is imprudent to argue with them about anything.
I think the quote goes like this: “If you argue with a fool you must argue like a fool or he will think himself wise. If you argue like a fool you become a fool and the fool becomes wiser then you. So never argue with a fool.”
“than you”
I agree with all that. I just think gay marriage is being foisted on them a lot more than it being something they’re really crying out for. Especially over and against civil unions. It’s a lot a hoax I think.
Lisa- Here is Karl’s thorough work on Black Liberation Theology and Barack Obama’s church.
Nish, I guess I am wondering (and thinking you are strange because of it): why did you take offense in the FIRST place to the joke? It was not trashing anyone. It was a typical hookers-have-cooties joke.
Comment by Lisa on 3/21 @ 9:24 am #
HA!!! Yeah. One could go to town with that.
However, it is important for us on the left. We cherish things that are lovingly made by indigenous peoples. “Hand-tooled†or “hand-woven†items are the best.
Yes indeed. And your lefty friends go through great pains to see that they remain shackled to hand labor.
nishi, who is a she, btw, is afflicted with an overabundance of self esteem, coupled with a tragic lack of self awareness. Plus, she like to babble endlessly, because she is awed by her own poorly formed words and sentences.
Also it’s just too icky to think of young Brad, the high school quarterback, moving out of his mom and dad’s house at 17 to go marry Mr. Briggs who runs the hardware store his dad has been going to for twenty years. I’ll take good care of Brad. Don’t you worry. Ack.
lisa on another thread Mcgeehee said gay was like a disease.
i thot the “joke” rather insensitive.
pll here like to think they are reasonable.
some of them are just homophobes.
ima grrl, btw.
i may fit your definition of disturbed tho.
my skull furniture is largely made up of broken glass and quite uncomfortable.
I don’t see it that way. I find it silly and impotent, yet hateful. It’s not something I’d want my president financing and otherwise supporting in his off time, though.
feets i think Brad wud have to be 18.
AGEIST!!!
Ok fine. So Brad was held back in first grade cause of missing so much school after he was in a bad snowmobile accident. Same difference.
No, you can get married at younger than 18 in many states.
oh snap this thread is over 300!
im sry dan.
:(
only with parental permission maybee
My only point is that society is not as ready as you think. And kids are stupid, and they are staying kids longer it seems.
Nishizonoshinji sounds like he might be impaired.
Perception is reality.
I Nish, I think bloggers like long comment threads (that are not annoying flame wars). It shows that they can get a good conversation going.
Some of your best friends?
Um, nope.
I thought you had it bookmarked. What happened? Did my actual comment not fit your narrative? Did it turn out you’ve accused me of something I didn’t do?
Nishi, I tend to take unkindly to such things even from people I like. You, not so much. Do you think I’ve been rough on you before this?
#297
It’s a form of marxism. Marxism has been proven to be fatal. Way to distance yourself from the re.btw.
hahaha, oh mcgeehee compared teh gay to the disease of alcoholism!
There are all kinds of predispositions believed to be biological in nature, and yet those sufficiently motivated overcome those predispositions. It’s said alcoholism correlates to biology about as well as does homosexuality, yet alcoholics can and do overcome the predisposition.
They make a choice. And because we as a society are intolerant and hateful of alcoholics, we glorify that choice and demonize those who give in to the predisposition.
When, oh when will we learn to tolerate and embrace our soused fellow humans, and love them as they are?
still sayin teh gay is a disease, mcgee
Ric Locke was the typhoid.
As for a biological basis for homosexuality  I reckon you could find a biological basis for pederasty, too. I urge you to find and read God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater by Kurt Vonnegut, paying particular attention to the passage in which the doctor explains the word pervert to Senator Rosewater. The book is from Vonnegut’s pre-senile dementia days, so it’s quite old, but it does show that the man could think, once upon a time.
There is a long list of things that are “natural†that we discountenance and try to discourage. It is natural for some women to die in childbirth. It is natural for adults to die off once past prime breeding age. It is natural for men to seek as many sex partners as they are able to service. It is natural for women to try to bind a male to service, and to cheat on him once bound. Some of those things are “natural†only in the sense that a therapy for them hasn’t been found yet; others are “natural†results of evolutionary forces that we resist. Some of them we ignore, some of them we seek physical remedies for (primarily medicine, which is what you’re up to), and some of them we “treat†through by societal remedies, encouraging or proscribing behaviors according to what (we perceive) makes the society successful. If natural == good, then biology == destiny, and we don’t live that way. If we did, you wouldn’t have a job.
Many of the societal remedies for “natural†conditions we disapprove of were codified as religious beliefs. Simply declaring those particular ones unnatural, and yourself privileged to modify them at whim, does not answer. Our society has a prohibition against infanticide, which is not “natural†in any way  virtually every other species makes a point of killing off surplus infants when times are bad, and the majority of ours has historically agreed with that. Our society, considered in general as “Westernâ€Â, is also an order of magnitude more successful than any other by just about any benchmark you might cite. We don’t know which of the myriad proscriptions and prescriptions caused that to be the case (and shrieking that you do know, and the ones that disfavor your particular pursuits shall and must be done away with, won’t go); the essence of “conservative†with a small “c†is “if you don’t know what it does, don’t screw with it.â€Â
So no, showing me a biological basis for homosexuality won’t change my attitude (about which you have some rather peculiar notions, anyway; your mind-reading machine clearly needs maintenance). There’s also a biological basis for typhoid, septicaemia, and diarrhoea.
Regards,
Ric
an if it’s a disease, it’s cureable, right Mcgeehee?
just like the brits cured Alan Turing.
homophobe.
Let me make this just a bit clearer with a syllogism.
Alcoholism is a BAD choice.
Homosexuality is a JUST LIKE ALCOHOLISM.
Therefore, homosexuality is BAD.
got that?
But just like alcoholism it’s more bad if you have to work the next morning I think.
don’t u evah question my search-fu, whankers.
feets, consensual sex between adults is always, always good.
any time of the day.
It’s more the crawling home in the middle of the night when you have to get up in the morning that’s the sucky part I think. Like drinking would be a lot more okay if there wasn’t that whole hangover thing.
And really, that’s just wrong, what you said. Bad sex is even worse when it’s on a weeknight and you have to crawl home in the middle of the night when you have to get up in the morning.
wat is bad sex feets?
wat we always said the cosci department was that sex was like documentation.
when it’s good its really really good, and when its bad, its better than nothing.
Nishi,
How do reconcile the difference between these two separate phrases:
“… about as well as …”
“… is JUST LIKE…”
yup, and it depends on the definition of “is”, right vic?
No, it depends on what the definition of “moron” is. You’re it.
I don’t see the word “disease” anywhere in that excerpt. I said “predisposition,” which is exactly what you were saying homosexuality is, with your “biological cause” argument.
There are those who insist that alcoholism be regarded as a disease — but I’m not one of them. If you are, that’s your content being imposed on my text to give it a meaning it never had.
context.
Your search-fu didn’t find what you said you would.
And “wankers” doesn’t have an H in it.
Oh. Sometimes they’re just weird. Or tired. Or too drunk. Or you are. Or you had really meant to bail but missed your exit ramp. Pity sex can be really really gruesome I think. Or like sometimes you’re just feeling jaded and all been there done that. I dunno. Bad sex is bad sex and it just isn’t worth giving up sleep for, depending on how your day looks.
feets, consensual sex between adults is always, always good.
any time of the day.
Surely you can think of lots of times that simply isn’t true.
I’ll give you one- when one or both are committed to other people.
I’ll give you another- when the two people are closely related.
When one is in a position of power over the other.
There are so many more, nishi. Your lack of imagination disappoints me.
This is bad sex. This too.
Stabby sex is the worst.
I have it on good authority Osama bin Laden’s birth resulted from bad sex. Also Hitler’s and Stalin’s.
Shannon Elizabeth’s, probably not.
oh gee, this post title is starting to take on a whole new meaning…..
To take the alcoholism analogy further, an alcoholic who stops drinking, is still an alcoholic. He’s not been “cured.” He’s just modified is behavior. Just highlights the inaptness of Faithful Second Son of the West’s (if I’ve translated that freaky handle properly) conclusions.
ha! maggie!
“every generation has less bias, less prejudice.
teh gay are citizens too.
they are entitled.
– If I’m an aspiring totalitarian cult ideology, seeking to subvert, and thereby destroy a country’s infrastructure, and thereby gain a political foothold, and ultimately the power to impose my ideology on the citizens of that country, what do I do?
– According to Marxism, and National Socialism (Nazism), the first thing I do is attack the value system of that country, both its social values, and its monitary systems.
– Look around you, what do you see.
– Sedition Step by step.
– First a sexual preference is morphed into a civil right, through constant misstatements and lexiconal gymnastics in a Left supporting press under the cover of freedom of speech. The young are targeted because they represent future generations of power and influence in that society. If you can seduce them to the narrative, you’re halfway there.
– the Adults will resist, be less easily fooled, so you have to go a bit further using social demonizing lies against those that speak out, shift the public perception of words like “prejudice” so that common language is lost and confusion and doubt replace focus, common sense, and common support.
– After awhile, if you’ve applied the techniques properly, the citizenry will evebtually accept the premise you have infested their society with, and common cause for their values, and social structure will be weakened and eventually lost.
– In America one of the glues that holds our society together is the family unit, another is religious beliefs, and yet another is our form of government.
– Look around you.
Not that something as trivial as objective reality would ever pierce the nishtoon’s bubble.
(Trying again) Now that you mention it, RTO, the medical journals are full of incurable diseases, one of which is Type 2 diabetes.
Sure. Ingrateful too. I wrote a whole post, just for her, at the Pub and she can’t even take the time to comment.
I don’t know why my first attempt to respond to RTO isn’t showing up. Maybe it’s the link.
And diabetes is yet another disease with a genetic predisposition.
Her ego, I think, suffers from Type 2 diabetes. Overfeeding it is a very bad idea.
I think I touched on that in my first attempt to mention diabetes.
Also (I think), 350th!!!
mcgeehee, u SAID
alcholism is BAD (ie destructive to society)
homosexuality is like alcoholism.
therefore homosexuality is BAD
– Hey McGehee…..you always get 350th.
CHEATERIST!!!!!11111eleventy!!one1111
ahhh
maybee we are not alike.
Surely you can think of lots of times that simply isn’t true.
I’ll give you one- when one or both are committed to other people.–not for me to judge, and likely GREAT sex
I’ll give you another- when the two people are closely related.–fine without reproduction
When one is in a position of power over the other.–not consenual if one is forced
– Homosexuality is not “bad”, its a personal preference, like the Romans brushed their teeth with urine, a preference that you prefer, over say fucking ripe peaches, or getting off in a jar of peanut butter.
– Getting off in a jar of peaaut butter is not a civil right.
– No one should kill you (skin heads and Ayrian brotherhood style), or be prejudiced against you because you prefer skippy over Alice. No one should care what your preferences are, or what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom. Freedom to pursue happiness, even if for you it involves a cork, a violin, and a gerbil.
– I’m very prejudice against pedophilia, and always will be. I’m also prejudice against murderers, thieves, and rapists. I am also prejudice against cults like White supremists, and Marxists cults that harm others, simply because of their “preferences”, or their form of governance, or their societal values, or their religious beliefs. In all those ways I am very “prejudice”
Jeff Dahmer was bad.
Jeff Dahmer was a human being, JUST LIKE nishi
Therefore, nishi can eat me.
Finally got to the end of this thread and the only thing I have to say is: I’m glad that the commenter’s name is at the top of the comment, else finishing this thread would have taken longer.
I’ll give you one- when one or both are committed to other people.–not for me to judge, and likely GREAT sex
I’ll give you another- when the two people are closely related.–fine without reproduction
Ok, since this subject was brought up in relation to the support of gay marriage….
Should people be able to marry more than one person (polygamy)?
Should brothers and sisters or mother and son be able to marry?
Juliette, that’s still a prodigious reading effort.
Nishi, why should the US government endorse or encourage homosexuality?
I can see why it might be imperative for the state to take a position on marriage and the family structure, but I don’t really see how homosexual marriages would benefit the state long term.
–“Should brothers and sisters or mother and son be able to marry?”
– And there are those that wonder why much of the Roman aristocracy was moronic.
– In spite of what you may have heard, a lot of social practices are less judgmental than they are a matter of survival of the species.
Maybee, yessssssssss.
The things you think are “wrong” or “sinful” are only because of reproduction.
incest, “linebreeding and inbreeding are bad reproductively speaking because they expose deleterious reccessives.
BBH is right
a lot of social practices are less judgmental than they are a matter of survival of the species.
only as far as reproduction goes….if there is no reproduction, all those taboos and sins are baseless cultural hangovers.
your idea of marriage as a sacrament is religious.
keep it in your personal church.
the idea of marriage as judicial contract, that is for citizens, ALL citizens.
I don’t see that anywhere in the excerpt you quoted, Nishi. Arguing from facts not in evidence? Tsk tsk.
failed syllogism pablo.
dahmer being bad AND human would have to imply all humans are BAD, and then u cud say nishi is human therefore BAD.
mcgeehee you and ric locke are homophobes.
i outed you both.
im sort of surprised to see that here.
Victor like i said….marriage as judicial contract is for citizens….all citizens.
Because you said so. Want to go around again?
Logical fallacy, nishi. You’re missing the data point that shows homosexuality being declared “bad”. Therefore, my syllogism is precisely as faulty as yours. That’s before getting into your misrepresentation of what you quoted.
The only thing you’ve outed is your foolishness. Griefing is dangerous work.
hey juliette
i was playah grrl once upon a time.
i deleted her in a fight with Allapundit over that dumb bitch Malkin’s sandbagging of DPW.
so nice to see u again.
;)
i think ill let the readers decide, Mcgeehee, Pablo hunnie.
im goin boardin while theres still sno.
crush crush shred shred.
cya.
In 1 male/1 female pairs. For reals, check the laws and you’ll see that’s what it is. Except that it’s a legal contract, with nothing judicial about it.
I think the readers have already decided, nishi. It didn’t go well for you.
heh…i guess Caric was right all along….
Protein Wisdom: Here There Be Homophobes
after all, homosexuality is like alcoholism or typhoid…not a word in defense of Ric Locke?
Faithful Second Son of the West’s
Faithful Second Son of the Bitch, garbled?
Here there be cannibals.
No. Just for cause no one has said it, cause it’s sort of tedious to have to I think, but what Ric and McGehee said about teh homosex peoples is just a refutation of nishi’s idea that society should bless it and bestow the cultural prerogative of marriage cause it’s natural… Ric and McG just said there were lots of things what are natural that don’t get blessed. But her argument doesn’t really address how doing contrived violence to cultural institutions like marriage is decidedly not natural, it’s very postmodern really, and not even at all scientific.
Marriage as we know it is inherently a defiance of natural, and it’s that defiance which defines the essential character of the institution. It’s a defiance of non-monogamy, a defiance of self-gratification, a defiance of irresponsibility, and a defiance of entropy, really. It’s not deigned for malleability.
What nishi doesn’t see is that inherent in extending marriage to people who are really living quite happily without it is to extend not just the institution but it’s mores as well, and specifically I mean the pernicious one that even little girls of a certain age whine piteously about in Cosmo – that marriage is the preferred state, and that thems what aren’t married is inferior and failed peoples. That’s a really dick thing to do to gay people I think.
*its* … I just want to make a not to fix that cause since no one is gonna read this thread really I think I’ll recycle that one later…
*note*
nishi:
I object to the word “homophobe” as I would to the term “islamaphobe.” Unless you have an advanced degree in pdychology and have personally evalusted each and every person so designated, that term is dishonest and unsupportable. Phobias are a psychological condition reflecting an unreasoned fear of something.
Somehow I don’t think you or anybody else who uses that term is qualified. Come up with a better designation.
Now what was this thread about again?
– While there are some rare instances of same sex reproductive species in Nature, overall Nature has declined that approach as not very favorable for the survival of the species. So in that sense Nature itself comes down as being con for same sex, and therefore does not support the “natural” argument.
– Whether you think thats pejorative for the practice or not is an individual thing I suppose, but clearly its not a good strategy if you’re focused on survival, assuming Nature knows what its doing. Maybe that narcissistic thing again. Its not nice to fool with Mother Nature, or so its been said.
– Tolerance of others personal sexual preferences is a long way from turning them into a social/legal institution, and as others have noted, there is no incentive for society to do so.
– Calling people Phobic, (an aversion or distaste for a particular subject), is reverse discrimination against people that simply disagree with you, is weak in the same sense the “Witches” of Salem were demonized for greed and jealousy purposes. But I see that doesn’t give the perps pause, because desperation always calls for desperate measures.
It’s no more phobic than someone saying no you can’t have a cookie hates children.
Phobia:
1) A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
2) A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.
American Heritage Dictionary
Not my job. If he sees fit to engage you or not, is entirely up to him.
Me, I just saw an excellent opportunity to highlight what a fool you are. And I see you’ve reverted to argument by assertion and your patented refusal to recognize when your assertions have been refuted. Wise choice, considering — when you actually try to support your assertions with evidence, you don’t do so well.
– This is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on My friends….
– Or at least until we find some waay that same sex devotees can be comfortable in their own preferences without making it a shining city on the hill legally…..
Just a few more and I can say “400th!”
– I’ll do My part to help fuzzy legs….
– “In numbers there is strength?”
– “Was G-d a poor black ghey man?”
– You might say that “Teh Gheyness” is certainly thinking “outside the box”.
– (Ok….someone else’s turn….)
What was striking to me, maybe just cause how manufacturing images what sell is sort of on my mind a lot, is how gay marriage went immediately to the let’s both wear tuxes and hey you guys can throw rice at us after banalities. I really expected, you know, themes. Maybe a little Butch and Sundance motif, or something clever and subversive like getting hitched at the 50 yard line in Giants Stadium. But those weren’t the images I saw. It was usually just jarringly unaesthetic and awkward I thought.
Oh. And also lesbians.
– Well one benefit for the same sex fem households is that they can simply weld the toilet seat down.
Sure, as long as they never have to use any plumbing tools.
[…]
There’s enough potential punchlines there to get us past 500…
Oops, this isn’t the “ego enhancement” thread.
At least, it wasn’t supposed to be…
I don’t expect other people to defend me. The only reason I may fail to do so on my own is that my Internet connection comes and goes — I’m ‘way out in the country and can’t afford the $1K+ for satellite, so dialup is all I can manage.
In this case I don’t really see the need to defend myself. Nishi, as usual, hasn’t reacted at all to what I actually said, instead responding forcefully to the voices in her head. I refuse to respond to other peoples’ delusions, having plenty of my own.
Regards,
Ric
I have noticed she has that tendency. And given how this thread went for her, I can see why. When she allows opposing arguments to occupy her intracranial dialogue, it doesn’t go very well for her.
‘feets- I think your 376 and 377 are spot on.
The bright shiny beacon of #400 looms ahead. Can we make it?
Yes, we can!
I mean, we can, can’t we?
This reader sees nothing in this thread that contradicts his earlier assessment of nishi as someone whose self-assessment of intelligence is much, much higher than demonstrate intelligence.
IOW, I still think nishi is a rather uninteresting nitwit. The only thing interesting about her, so far, is that she thinks she’s over on the other tail of the IQ distribution.
Baracky come lately, the new kid in town …
Everybody loves you, so don’t let them down. By embracing your hateful anti-Semitic pastor what thinks America started AIDS in front of the whole world like that. Dumb ass.
Only another 200 to go until TONIGHT, WE DINE IN HELL!!!!ONE!!!
OK, my math isn’t so bad, but someone slipped a comment or two in there while I wasn’t looking.
– Hopefully this isn’t 400th, but if it is I promise to leave it to McGehee in My will, along with the pith helmet , jodpirs, and Indianna Jones “Lost Arc” autographs…..
Hmm. *Dumbass* I think is more better. Also I really think nishi should get more credit for her reappraisal of Baracky. She was really pretty graceful about it I thought.
…or it could be that nishi actually is quite smart, but only posts when drunk out of her mind. In which case I’d fault her for not being a funny drunk, like happyfeet.
Oh, sorry hf. Just kiddin’.
– That was just unfair Slart…..We all know feets gets “waisted” on cupcakes….
– nishi is just as self absorbed, sophomoric, and opinionated as all the other moonbats. She just has a tad better delivery. But using antiquated terms like “NeoCon” still brands her as a newbie.
Is ok. But for real I only drink for work but sometimes I’ll have a drink like when my sleeping pills won’t kick in. I don’t know why that happens. But really, the part about calling Ric and McGehee homophobes… I didn’t really get what that was supposed to accomplish, but I think Ric and McG were, appropriately, more dismissive than offended. But I do think nishi is quite smart.
I wish cupcakes. It’s a diet thing cause we’re having a contest at work. No, not my idea. So for Easter I think I’m gonna take strawberries with some sort of dip you apparently make by mixing Cool Whip with a little orange juice and powdered sugar. I guess I’ll put the strawberries in a little Easter basket. Gack.
She may very well be unusually intelligent — but it is my considered opinion that she most certainly is not “smart.”
She’ll get there though I think. If I had to put my money on anyone, it would be … SEK. But nishi’s next.
It’ll take somebody figuring out how to get through to her, and I just can’t imagine anyone going to that much effort on her.
It really should have happened before now.
Sciencey people have always had idiosyncratic approaches to politics though. We should be glad for that really.
For certain specific values of “idiosyncratic.” One would hope that people trained in the scientific method would understand the importance of showing your work and not letting preconceived notions color your observations. But I suppose it’s harder to apply rules like that to “soft” disciplines like politics since the laboratory for political experimentation is the population at large. Far less controllable than a petri dish.
I happen to think that should mean the rules for political experimentation should be more rigid than in the lab.
Yeah, and a frog wishes he had wings so his ass wouldn’t drag the ground. Trying to impose rules on politics just sets up a (nastily political) contest between the rules-imposers and the rest of the politicians.
Regards,
Ric
Nishi,
Why is it taking you so long to produce the quote where they “advocate “curing†them like Alan Turing was “cured†i guess” (ref. 262)?
Is there some new space age definition for the use of quotation marks that’s supposed to denote a total fabrication , instead of a factual quotation of the passage?
As it stands, all your “search-fu” provided was evidence that you’re full of shit and ballzy enough to discredit yourself while still posturing as through you hold the moral high ground.
Aside from all of THAT, you’re doing pretty well.
bestow the cultural prerogative of marriage cause it’s natural
no…because it doesn’t matter anymore.
it’s not all about TEH REPRODUCTION anymore.
and u guys just can’t see it, cuz ur blinded by religion.
It seems like you’re arguing in the negative space though. What is it all about now then? And why is that more better? Especially over and against civil unions…
But that’s not the point, really. It’s at #377 where I argue the cultural space part. Why do you insist on foisting your ideas about marriage onto homosexuals, nishi?
Just from the media I get, it seems white liberals are way more into this idea than actual for real gay peoples are. I’m betting they wish you’d spend a bit more energy on AIDS research really. I think that’s what gay Jesus would want.
I think that’s what gay Jesus would want.
whoa…jesus was gay???????!!!!!!!??????
feets teh gay just want tribe membership.
look at alla them that got married in SF when it was legal.
I wonder what the percentage was. And what percentage are still hanging in there and all. But SF is an outlier anyway I think. They’re rich, for one.
Sciencey people have always had idiosyncratic approaches to politics though.
eventually there will be another dimension on the lib/con political axis, making a cube.
biopolitics is the the 3rd dimension
u can read about it here.
What, they have similar fears?
You’re a fucking moron, nishi. Eventually you’ll sober up, but you’ll still be pathetic.
I read a few pages – it looks like a good read, really. I effing hate Jeremy Rifkin by the way. He’s voting for Obama, you can almost bet. Unless maybe Nader.
– In a little while, after the Dems lose this election, again, nishi and her collective won’t matter anymore for awhile. They’ll marshal their forces in the down time. Socialists, and the rest of their gaggle of ist-cults, are really good at marshaling their forces. Getting anything accomplished, not so much. They seem to be unable to grasp that problem about teh diversity thing.
Actually, I wasn’t saying impose rules on politics, I was saying impose rules on the political experimenters. Things like, “Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech,” and the like.
Yeah, I know. If wishes were horses we’d all be eating steak.
[…] Dan Collins for the Meyer article. Posted by MC @ 4:18 am | Trackback Share […]
– In a little while, after the Dems lose this election, again, nishi and her collective won’t matter anymore for awhile. They’ll marshal their forces in the down time. Socialists, and the rest of their gaggle of ist-cults, are really good at marshaling their forces. Getting anything accomplished, not so much. They seem to be unable to grasp that problem about teh diversity thing.
wow, uber 400 posts. But man, like are some PW’ers paranoid or something. Even Obama isn’t going to take your guns away even if it’d be a good thing. It’s the threat of Authoritarians from the Right that’d do that.
It’s the fear of diversity that led conservatives in the pre-Civil War South to tar and feather and expel every abolitionist in the area and turn it into to a one party state. The ‘Left’ seems to enjoy diversity….after all some of us even talk to youz guys.