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When will you stupid Americans learn. Boys don’t develop crushes on walking, talking bags. Duh.
They talk?
Not without a male relative nearby if they know what’s good for them.
“In the past, society tended to accept the fact that males were committing sexual offenses against young girls,†she said.
This seems to me to be a very poor phrasing.
Unless she really means males really were committing that many sexual offenses against young girls.
When it comes to child abuse, men and women ware treated very differently under the law. Women get away with it.
Female sexual abusers are treated less harshly because it’s erroneously thought that young boys desire sex with older women while young female do not desire sex with older men.
This is false. The schoolgirl crush is as well understood as the schoolboy crush. Girls are just as sexual as boys, if not more so. Girls mature faster than boys. The whole premise is false. Girls want sex with older men, too.
It’s up to adults, both men and women, to look out for the interests of impressionable children. Yet still, men get life and women get probation. Balderdash.
One more example of how the law shifts responsibilities from women onto men. Why should women be treated equally, when they can’t bear equal responsibility?
It’s up to adults, both men and women, to look out for the interests of impressionable children.
True. It might be nice if some adults weren’t trying to make children into miniature adults (I don’t really want to go searching here at work for lady-of-the-evening Halloween costumes or “juicy” underwear marketed to children – or their parents who are just as childish).
It really went mainstream with Pretty Baby, I think.
100 different offenders, and they’ll have 52 different motives… Wonder where that analytical study is?
I think it went mainstream with “The Graduate.” Granted, Braddock is over 18 (barely). But still it played to the romance novel ethic: anything is morally acceptable that sexually fulfills a woman in search of love. That ethic is disturbingly widespread today.
I’ll go out on a limb and note something else. People don’t like to talk about this stuff, but in most of the cases I’ve seen in the news, the adult female child abuser is white and the victim is a black male. I think there is an element of racially charged sexuality at work, too. That also springs from the romance novel ethic.
As if on cue: Mother Is Held in L.I. Slaying of 3 Children
Excuse me while I go vomit and consider retirement in Costa Rica.
It’s always been around; the difference is that it’s being prosecuted (as it should be). Alex Karras, the football player mentioned in his autobiography that his first sexual experience was with one of his high school teachers, and it’s also a major subplot in the film “The Last Picture Show”.
Summer of ’42
Lolita. Oh, wait, nevermind.
(Shoot, MC, that was the line I picked up too.)
“You take 100 different offenders, and they’ll have 52 different motives,†he said.
Now IANALawyer, but to me, the women all seem to have the same motive: sex with young boys. Strapping young boys. Who are young. Boyishly. Flaunting it in front of the defenseless teachers.
Who can blame the frustrated female teachers for dipping a toe in the … the … OK, bad metaphor…
“Bring some of that home for Papa next time, eh, son? Or at least let me watch.”
In case anyone forgets … Kathryn Heigl
What about Katherine Heigl? The hotty actress?
Did anyone else note the tone of the article towards women molesters was a sort of curious puzzlement and “root cause” seeking thoughtfulness with none of the usual “chester the molester” stereotyping that is use in articles about male molesters?
Yes, that’s pretty much why I posted it, Sergeant Ted. Because it’s puzzling, you see.
Still . . . Kathryn Heigl.
By the nipples of Shannon Elizabeth . . . Kathryn Heigl!
Sgt Ted – There was no special significance to Ms. Heigl being mentioned, other than that I thought about her in that criminally hot red dress smoking out on a loading dock.
[…] I guess the opposite population pressure is operating within Western human societies.  O! the rape. Posted by Dan Collins @ 4:41 pm | […]
Because it’s puzzling, you see
It couldn’t have anything to do with the attitude of some adult males who, seeing a story of a 17 y/o boy and a “hot” 20 something female teacher tend not to horror but to nudging each other in the ribs and saying “lucky kid! wish I had some of that when I was 17!”
Because it’s puzzling, you see.
Yes. Women doinking young boys: It is a Puzzlement…
But…butbutbut DarLEEN! Think of the Children ©!!!!1!!one
Yes, that’s part of the problem. Also, part of the problem lies with women, who seeing a story of a 17 year old girl with a ‘hot’ 20 something male teacher, tend not to say “gosh I remember wanting to do my teacher, too” but to clap their hand to mouth in horror and shout “oh my gosh, how could anyone seduce my sweet, little, innocent sunshine whose never though of sex in her whole life?!”
The problem is two fold. Women want a double standard at law, and they play the helpless virgin to get it. Men want to believe their daughters are helpless virgins, so they play like they are. Bingo. Double standard. As I’ve written before, I blame it on men. Men shouldn’t put up with female duplicity. They do.
Alcyoneus
Totally anecdotal but you won’t find that double-standard by DA offices filing charges.
But juries? Total crapshoot based on what bias jurors bring to the case…sometimes it cannot be caught at voir dire.
I remember the huge coverage of the Mary Kay Letourneau case … and one of the highest rated radio show hosts in the Los Angeles area, Bill Handel (who is also an attorney) screaming to high heavens that what she did was no “Rape” because boys would feel lucky to be introduced to sex by a hot teacher. He was totally sincere.
Whether young boys or young girls develop crushes on adults and are “willing” is irrelevant.
Alcyoneus
I doubt you’d find mothers of high school boys any more accepting of them having sex with their teachers than you’d find dads of h/s girls.
ANY parent is going to view an adult who is sexually involved with their teen as a predator. That includes gay or lesbian student/teacher relationships, too (we’ve prosecuted a few of those, too.)
Not where I live, Darleen. You should qualify your statements more carefully.
So very, disturbingly true.
Whether young boys or young girls develop crushes on adults and are “willing†is irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what? Certainly it should be irrelevant under the law. But as you yourself must admit, it isn’t irrelevant for examining the attitudes that create the double standard. Otherwise, you’ll have to retract your entirely correct observation that some of this double standard is caused by male attitudes about their school day crushes. Your own words show that while these attitudes shouldn’t be relevant under the la, in fact they are on juries. And precisely because of views about schoolyard crushes.
You should more carefully judge the context of your claims.
Well, I bungled that one. The line “Whether young boys or young girls develop crushes on adults and are “willing†is irrelevant.” is Darleen’s. Sorry about that.
I blame it on Van Halen.
Well, I bungled that one.
Me too.
You should qualify your statements more carefully
it gets a little tiring, A, when I’ve been posting and commenting on this site for so long to keep saying “I work in DA office in SoCal and am only talking about my direct experience”… I figured the word “anecdotal” would have been sufficient to indicate I was talking about my own direct experience.
GENERALLY, and culturally, boys are expected to lose their virginity before high school graduation and girls are not. Is it your contention that that traditional cultural expectation is the fault of female duplicity? Really?
Actually Darleen, I think he was saying the reality of men receiving harsher sentences in comparable instances is the fault of males falling for female duplicity, vv. wanting equal treatment but not equal responsibility.
I could be wrong though…
You’re right. I wasn’t taking the strongest and most charitable interpretation. I erred. Apologies.
We’ve changed topics from the legal double standard to the cultural double standard. But it’s a good point, Darleen. The origins of the legal double standard is in the culture.
Those boys who lose their virginity are losing it with girls. The CDC stats show that males and females in high school engage in sex at approximately equal rates. So the general cultural observation is false. Why is it false?
Females derive a lot of power and deference from the appearance of helpless innocence, and boys and men reliably fall for it. “Little Suzie just couldn’t be a slut because she’s my girlfriend (or my daughter)!” Sorry, little Suzie is probably just as sexually experienced as little Johnny. Boys and men shouldn’t fall for this duplicity. They should realize than girls are just a sexual as boys, and women are just as sexual as men, if not more so.
The duplicity is from both sexes. Women want the extra deference and protections, and they know men don’t want relationships with sluts. So they lie. Men want to believe their women are innocent virgins, so they believe it. It’s a female duplicity, and men stupidly go along with it.
In short, my answer to your question is: yes, really.
The sexual disparity in sentencing and prosecution in semi-consentual* sexual relationshipes is nothing compared to those disparities found regarding incest versus stranger child molestation. Our country goes into hysterics when some pervert in a car goes trolling by junior highs and dangling some loot. But we generally don’t think all that much about all the twisted molesters who go by titles such as Uncle, Aunt, Mom, Dad, Grampa, Cousin, and so forth.
*Consent is supposed to be a black and white thing, but, as Darleen noted, juries don’t always see things that way. I have mixed feelings about that fact, so I can’t say “consentual” or “non-consentual” without caveats.
We’ve changed topics from the legal double standard to the cultural double standard
Well, they do overlap. Cultural bias can/does hinder successful prosecution. Jury nullification lives as much as judges instruct otherwise.
I would disagree with your assertion that it is the result of “female duplicity” or anything with “special preferences”. Still a little more than half of all teens, male and female, have never had intercourse even once (I went hunting down those CDC stats). Yet we ADULTS send very mixed messages via pop culture. Virginity is a “curse” to be gotten rid of. Culture celebrates “mook” films of horny young males looking to nail any female that can be persuaded or drugged into submission. We protray any person – fictional or not – who even hints that sex for teens might not be a good idea as crazed Xtian fanatics who fetishize female virginity because said person really hates females.
I came of age during the late 60’s early 70’s .. the so-called “sexual revolution” where women were encourage to toss off the fuddy-duddy constraints of hypocritic patriarchy and, damn it!, take the Pill and start acting like a man and fuck any and everyone!
It isn’t a matter of male or female duplicity. I would contend it is a bed of cultural quicksand we are still wading through trying to find a way that will be morally healthy for both men and women.
Do remember that many of the most egregious abuse of judicial sentences in letting some of these female sexual predators off the hook have come from male judges … no female duplicity there.
I couldn’t agree more, Darleen.
Let’s be careful, Darleen: I’ve never mentioned the words “special preferences” here. I have mentioned ‘duplicity.’ This means that women really do act “like a man and fuck any and everyone,” yet still want all the legal and social deference previously reserved for sexually temperate ladies. All of this is anecdotal, so we cannot settle it definitively. Still, I think it is a commonplace in almost everyone’s experience: the sexually liberated, feminist woman demanding to be treated like a 19th century morally upstanding lady. By and large, she will be treated in this incongruous way, almost always at the expense of a man. Alas, if this is not in your experience then we are permanently at odds.
Oh, there’s no need to remind me. I’ve already written it: “As I’ve written before, I blame it on men. Men shouldn’t put up with female duplicity.” You assume that because men take an action it isn’t based on duplicity from females. This is false. It’s both male gullibility and female duplicity. Men have created the legal double standard for women. That’s why men must act to change it. In arguing for more equal treatment, men must be prepared to encounter feminist women who will defend their special treatment unto irrationality, rational feminists who nevertheless equate any criticism of women with ‘misogyny,’ female opportunists who want to keep the double standards, and gullible men who will do their bidding.
This means that women really do act “like a man and fuck any and everyone,†yet still want all the legal and social deference previously reserved for sexually temperate ladies
Aren’t you mixing the two demographics? Over half of female teens reject the “fuck buddy” template. Combine that with the majority of “had intercourse once” while removing the “have had 4 or more sex partners” and it is easy to see that the vast majority of females don’t want to be sexually active unless it is in a committed relationship. (Indeed, the majority of teen boys are on par with this too, a recent study demonstrating that many male teens are more than mooks). So, is an expectation of a level of respect due to a rejection of the mook/midriff, fuck-buddy, hookup pop culture one really of undeserved (implied) deference?
An anecdote: I have four daughters who have successfully navigated the rough waters of adolescence. A few years back, one of my girls developed severe abdominal pain… trip to ER and several tests later (ruling out appendicitis, etc) and finally figuring out ovarian cyst (family history of those). One thing that really incensed my daughter during the ordeal was the constant questioning by docs and nurses over her “sexual history”. She had none…she was a virgin. She understood that questions were necessary, but what annoyed her was the skepticism that she was greeted with when she said told them she was a virgin.
Again, the attitude that somehow getting to age 17 without being fucked is an abberation. Not.a.good.message.
Very good points Darleen, but let’s not be misleading. By the time students get to 12th grade, 62% of female students report having at least one sexual partner, and 20% had at least four sexual partners. The picture going into college is even worse. 44% of women age 25 or greater in college report having had six or more sexual partners. 98% of females at college report having at least one sexual partner. 78% report being currently sexually active.
Most women are sexually active. Very sexually active. In a former time, we would have said promiscuous. Here at PW, I linked to a recent article with this,
This kind of thing really is in the common experience of almost everyone.
So am I mixing the demographics? Sure. It’s prudent to go with the heuristic that works most of the time, and modify it where appropriate.
OMG. You’ve done a great job there, Darleen. As I recall one of your daughters just went into nursing. Brilliant!
But let me ask you a question. It’s incredibly rare to have a virgin teenager arrive at hospital. Doesn’t the skepticism of the medical staff indicate something? Maybe that the great majority of teenage females are promiscuous.
62% of female students report having at least one sexual partner, and 20% had at least four sexual partners.
So, of 100% of females who reach the 12th grade, 80% hewed to the concept of commited relationship as a condition of engaging in sexual intercourse.
My parents were married at age 19/22 (they’ll celebrate their 57th wedding anniversary this April). Evolution bumps up against culture…as late teens/early 20’s are geared to couple and start families. The delayed marriage until 30’s due to education/career is a very recent development. Society has been more forgiving (on the micro scale) of young adults engaging in sexual intercourse when they’ve already presented themselves as a committed couple.
College girls drink themselves into near or actual oblivion before and during parties.
There is a great deal of depression on college campuses. Especially among females. I would contend this binge drinking is a form of self-medication, a way of trying to conform to a “hook up” culture they discover they are uncomfortable with. They want to be hip, be cool, be-long…and medicating to the point where they can “loosen up” is not one of premeditated duplicity but a pitiful confession of moral doubt.
BTW… yes, my eldest daughter is now an official RN (passed her NCLEX last month) and is an ICU nurse at a state-of-the-art regional medical center. :-)
Youngest daughter is in her 2nd year of being an RA at her college.
Doesn’t the skepticism of the medical staff indicate something? Maybe that the great majority of teenage females are promiscuous.
Medical staff see sick people, that doesn’t mean all people are sick. Of the teenage girls that come to them with reproductive problems, the majority of them will be sexually active (which is not the same as “promiscuous”), but teen girls who are not sexually active will rarely be in the hospital with any ailment related to reproduction.
PS, Alcyoneus, let me thank you for a very enjoyable conversation.
Oh, do please see this site if you have doubts
about sexually aggressive and predatory females.
http://barbaradiamond.blogspot.com/