Because that’s all religiousy and rude:
But the Latin Mass published by the Vatican last year resuscitated the conversion insult, praying on Good Friday that God “lift the veil” from “Jewish blindness.” Catholics and Jews both objected. In last week’s formal promulgation of the Latin Mass, the Vatican stepped back from that extreme language, but Catholics are still to pray that God “enlighten” the hearts of Jews “so that they recognize Jesus Christ, Savior of all mankind.” This is a drastic retreat from the most important theological development of the modern era. Something is wrong with that development, now say Vatican reactionaries. To which the people reply, “No. What’s wrong is you.”
So, the next time Mr. Carroll tries to exhort you to adopt one of his own beliefs, tell him to sit down and shut up.
So, basically, you’re not allowed to wish for someone’s salvation? Now, I’m not a religious person, but when someone fervently wishes what they believe is best for me, I don’t get pissed. It’s only when they attempt to force me that I get pissed.
That’s interesting. The blindness thing seems a little impolite to me. Also kind of silly since they first should be praying to lift blindness a lot from all the Catholics what aren’t really. But really this is none of my business.
Oh, liberals are always accusing one of “false consciousness,” which means holding opinions disagreeable to them. People are killed for repudiating Islam, and I don’t hear Carroll complaining about it.
I have no idea really. What does the mission statement say?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark 16:15-16).
But that’s just bougy…
I don’t really get any of this at all. It feels like mostly aesthetics.
I don’t know what that means. Carroll’s take is really bougy. He seems to think the church should be more plainspoken. He should lead by example I think.
I’m not Catholic (I was raised Church of Christ) but some family members are.
I just wasn’t…comfortable…with the add-ons when I visited.
But then, religion-sphere is pretty much doomed in America. America may be doomed for that.
Again, bougy!
Okay, cool, got the message. From now on, the Evil Spawn’s evening prayers will go,
“Dear God, bless mommy, and daddy, and brother Timmah, and the lunchlady, and teacher, and the crossing guard, and my friends, and we pray also for the conversion of the pagans. And while you’re at it, God, to hell with the Jews. We wouldn’t want to offend by asking You to benefit them with Your grace. Amen.”
I attend the Tridentine mass semi-regularly. I wasn’t aware that many latinate Jews were present at mass in order to hear the insult in the first place.
I’ll start looking around.
Also, to be fair, I’m sure Carroll will demand that the Jews lay off all that “chosen people” stuff too.
That’ll probably be in the next column, I think. I await it eagerly.
So, if you think someone’s wrong and hope they come around, that’s an insult?
And there’s good reason the priest faced away from the congregation, he was the leader of the congregation, facing East (toward Jerusalem in the old, nice churches). Was this guy ever an altar boy? Because I was taught that they could do it either way.
I have a beautiful bride. But for the rest of you, I hope you make an ugly woman your wife. Er, wait, that’s not very Christian of me now is it?
and by “do it” I mean “say Mass”, not like “do it” as in “do it”, knowwhutimsayin’?
Obviously it’s you all who have the dirty minds.
Depends Enoch, do you want us to be happy for the rest of our life?
So, basically, you’re not allowed to wish for someone’s salvation?
I guess that means sawing their heads off or burning them alive is right out then.
Rob Crawford and serr8d (#5) both make great points. People that have a problem with this, it seems to me, just aren’t very serious about faith and should probably just leave it alone.
Well, there is also the veiled attempt at thought control here – even if you have a negative judgment (say, that some or another religion is not true or complete) that exists entirely within the sphere of a private religious observance in the Latin language, it needs cleansing.
Obstreperous Infidel says people who aren’t very serious about faith should probably just leave it alone. You really have to be on your toes around here.
But the Latin Mass published by the Vatican last year resuscitated the conversion insult
I’m plenty sick of the intolerance people are showing toward Christians lately. Especially since the ones doing so are always the first to demand everyone be more tolerant and inclusive.
I’m the only Catholic (converted when I was 22) and over the holidays, I was embroiled in a nasty argument with several of my kin. After about an hour of “discussion,” my brother-in-law said, “You just think Catholicism is better than my religion, don’t you”?
I answered, “Of course, I do.”
Silence. Then the air was filled with small pieces of green bean casserole and those really icky sweet potatoes with marshmallow on them.
Turns out religous “bigotry” doesn’t taste all that good.
Frankly, if all someone is doing is praying that everyone else should think like them, I consider it a minor annoyance at worst.
Christians are kind of the “canary in a coal mine” here – people feel safe hurling abuse at them, others will follow. It’s a measure of the complainer that they only complain about those least likely to strike back.
““You just think Catholicism is better than my religion, don’t youâ€Â?
I answered, “Of course, I do.—
Well, how else would he explain the fact that you bothered to leave one religion and went to all of the trouble to convert to another?
Isn’t that kind of implied? Like, when I move from a crappy house to a great big gold encrusted house, I should think that it is “better,” no?
>I’m the only Catholic (converted when I was 22) and over the holidays, I was embroiled in a nasty argument with several of my kin. After about an hour of “discussion,†my brother-in-law said, “You just think Catholicism is better than my religion, don’t you�
>I answered, “Of course, I do.â€Â
>Silence. Then the air was filled with small pieces of green bean casserole and those really icky sweet potatoes with marshmallow on them.
>Turns out religous “bigotry†doesn’t taste all that good.
Thanks, Cowboy, for the laugh. And “Bravo” to you for being forthright about…um, _why_ you chose your faith. Wayyy too many people don’t get that being committed to what you believe is the truth does not equal dissing or intolerance of others’ faiths.
[No irony intended] *namasté*.
Yes, that is amusing.
We should found a group called Catholics in Favor of Catholicism.
I’m not sure your point HF (as is sometimes the case) but my point was that if you think that Catholics praying for Jews, or anyone else, to convert (or just praying for their souls) is intolerant or anything else as ridiculous as that, then you may not know much about Christianity (or common sense). Again, as Rob Crawford put it, there’s no force so there’s no problem. I’ve had Muslims attempt, actively, to get me to convert. I wasn’t offended. I just declined the invite. As the previous few commenters said, wow! Catholics think their religion is the best one. That’s earth shattering.
I didn’t have a point. You made a strong statement and I wanted to highlight it is all and see if people would discuss it so I just played off the ironic juxtaposition of your name with what that statement was saying but I guess it was just me that thought that was really kind of an interesting thing to say. Interesting cause from what I could get from Carroll he’s all about democratizing religion and opening doctrine up to the peoples or something while you were saying no there are definite parameters even to who should be discussing it. But all this sounds like I’m way more into this than I really am. Which is not to say it’s not important and all and I would have tried harder to grasp the issues but then Jeff put up a post and no one take this the wrong way but I was so out of here.
Well, how else would he explain the fact that you bothered to leave one religion and went to all of the trouble to convert to another?
Frankly, I would go with the one that has the best fringe benefits. And a good sense of humor.
I am a Chocatholic. I attend over at Our Little Lady of the Swiss Cake Roll. If your religion doesn’t use M&Ms for communion, you’re in second place as far as I’m concerned.
When I lived on the Near North Side, I attended Our Lady, Queen of Spades.
But, happy, I’m just saying that if one is offended because Catholics think their religion is the best and that they pray for converts, I question if they know what faith is. As long as you don’t use the power of the state to try and attract converts to ANY religion, I have no problem with it. Religion isn’t politics. I think most people that practice common sense would agree with that notion.
I totally agree. At #16 I thought you were saying something else is all. Which I guess you weren’t. But if you had I would have been ok with that. I wasn’t trying to call you out or anything I just wondered where you were going with that. I should have just asked but I didn’t know for sure how to make the question cause it seemed already that maybe this was a sensitive subject where I wasn’t really getting the sensitivities. Also your name is Ostreperous Infidel and all. I bet you get this a lot.
Moe. That would almost be the Unitarians, except I don’t think they’re really a religion. I think they’re somehow affiliated with the Girl Scouts. The Holy Rollers look pretty interesting. All that wildlife and stuff. I really like alppucino’s church. Are there hot chicks?
Christians are kind of the “canary in a coal mine†here – people feel safe hurling abuse at them, others will follow.
Yes, it used to be Jews, but it’s not any more. Christians are the new safe target to bash, to attack, and to abuse. Just ask the persecuted Christians in hell holes around the world that never, ever get reported by the legacy media.
That would almost be the Unitarians, except I don’t think they’re really a religion.
I tried them for awhile, that is why I added the sense of humor. Unitarians tend to really have no sense of humor at all. I have found Baptists to have a great sense of humor, they just have so many friggin rules. And they won’t let electric guitars and drums in the choir.
And they won’t let electric guitars and drums in the choir.
And that’s a bad thing why? Hell, with all the crappy guitarists an drummers I run into in Catholic churches, that’s as prime a reason to convert to the Baptist faith as I’ve ever heard.
what the? my parents turned Methodist cause they couldn’t find a Baptist church that didn’t rely on a
Praise BandMusical Worship Team.Just being silly, some of them do, some don’t.
I’m just happy if the priest doesn’t speak Engrish. Guitars … French horns … I don’t care about the instrumentation as long as I can understand the homily.
Right, because in this day and age the Jews need to be worried about the Catholics.
Right.
It’s time to have an open discussion of the Jewish Talmud and it’s teachings on Jesus. How about daily prayers thanking God that they are not a profane Goy?