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Election 2008: Why Democrats Should Support McCain [Karl]

At The Moderate Voice, moderate Republican Pete Abel makes the case.  At Donklephant, Justin Gardner seconds that emotion.  However, in doing so, they bury the most interesting thing they could have said about this election cycle:

2. McCain represents for Republicans what Obama represents for Democrats: a meaningful step away from the last 15-plus years. I’m not saying either man will revolutionize partisan politics as we know it, but both promise (at a minimum) evolutionary progress toward a different America. And if we truly believe country is more important than party, then we owe it to ourselves to boost the two candidates who (among all their peers) represent the best hope for moving us in a post-partisan direction, regardless of our individual party loyalties.

I would go a step further.  The bill of indictment against McCain among classic liberals, conservatives, libertarians, et al. is in no small part a list of McCain’s efforts at bipartisanship — McCain-Feingold (political speech suppression), McCain-Kennedy (legalization of illegal immigrants), McCain-Lieberman (global warming hysteria) and his membership in the Gang of 14 (preserving the filibuster against judicial nominees) being among the most prominent counts.

One notable feature they share — except the first and last of these (which those right of center may reconsider should Democrats win the presidency and Congress this year) is that they are failures.  Moreover, it could be argued that the last round of “campaign finance reform” has failed as badly as all prior versions.  McCain’s opposition to the Bush tax cuts was similarly ineffective.

If I was advising Sen. Hillary Clinton, I would be pointing this out loudly and often.  Sen. Barack Obama talks about post-partisan politics, but his record of such in Illinois is non-existent in the US Senate.  Sen. McCain has a demonstrable record of trying to be a Unifier that Obama lacks.  And there is no indication that Obama would prove any better at playing the Unifier than McCain has amassed in a much longer career in the Senate.

At least it might be better for Clinton to try a little McCain-esque Straight Talk in light of the Democratic backlash to the usual Clintonian über-spin.

60 Replies to “Election 2008: Why Democrats Should Support McCain [Karl]”

  1. Cory says:

    McCain is really only conservative on a handful of issues. He’s pro-life (just like most of the other Republican nominees) and hawkish in the GWOT (just like most other Republican nominees). What reason do I have to vote FOR him? Because Hillary or Obama would be worse? I’m not even sure that that’s true. I actually think it will be a good lesson for his most ardent supporters to see the base drop out from under him if he becomes the nominee. I personally would never vote for any candidate who wants amnesty for illegal immigrants. And that includes McCain. McCain would forever ruin the Republican Party, and even more importantly, America. And if anyone thinks I’m alone in thinking like this, wait and see what happens if he becomes the nominee and has no real conservatives there to support him.

  2. Kevin says:

    Yeah, but who can WE support?

  3. MCPO Airdale says:

    Bipartisanship in support of leftist idealism doesn’t recommend him to me.If McCain wins the nomination, I’ll simply stay home in November.

  4. happyfeet says:

    A post-partisan direction? That’s midtown. We can’t go to to midtown. We have to go away from midtown.

  5. Mike C. says:

    Just another piece of evidence that bipartisanship to Democrats means making Republicans do what we want. As you noted, McCain has a long list of successful failures reaching across the aisle. From what I’ve seen, heard and read of Obama there is not a single policy prescription in his platform that is even minimally enticing to those on the right.

  6. Here’s why you don’t vote for McCain:

    “I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy.”
    -Senator John McCain (R-AZ)

  7. Karl says:

    happyfeet,

    Stay out of the park.

  8. Ric Locke says:

    Once again I am suffering from nostalgia. Back in the Olden Times, all the Republicans in the state of Texas could caucus in a coat closet somewhere in Dallas; the Democratic primary was the election, and the actual election was simply a formality. Now we’re back to that. If McCain is the “Republican” nominee, we have a good old-fashioned Texas Democratic primary next November, with one out-there Leftist Democrat and one more or less centrist one.

    I will leave the house to vote against Hillary! The list of people I would not vote for if Hillary! were the alternative is very short, and McCain isn’t on it.

    If it ain’t Hillary! and it is McCain, I stay home. Apparently I have to have a Democrat for President. I don’t have to contribute to the “mandate”.

    Regards,
    Ric

  9. Great Mencken's Ghost says:

    Karl,in McCain’s case, I believe you are confusing personal vainglory for bipartisanship.

  10. Karl says:

    Nah, merely noting that McCain has more of a record than Obama.

  11. JD says:

    Why is it that all “bipartisanship” involves a Republican acting like a Dem ? Unless you are a Dem, why is this supposed to be good?

  12. James says:

    John McCain has wrapped up the Republican nomination with the SC victory. He is more intelligent, charismatic, & experienced than any other nominee.

    Interestingly, JohnMcCain.name is not in use and for sale leading up to the election.

  13. happyfeet says:

    Obama looks better without a shirt though, so it’s all still up in the air.

  14. Harry says:

    John Kerry lied about what happened in Vietnam. John McCain actively worked with the Vietcong against his fellow POWs.

    Hard for me to support that.

  15. Hillary Clinton says:

    You don’t have to fall in love, just fall in line.

  16. JD says:

    People like James are infuriating. The haughty moral superiority and preening is bad enough when it comes from the proggs, from people that are allegedly on the same team, it is even less palatable.

  17. JD says:

    Harry – Back it up. Substantiate it. Otherwise, you are no better than the Clintons.

  18. Jeff aka Alcyoneus says:

    Bugger McCain.

    Bipartisanship looks like the last Republican controlled congress, like a hippie and a pinstriped businessman stumbling arm-in-arm through a whorehouse paying for p***y with other people’s money.

    Both the Democrats and McCain are an anal rape without the courtesy of a reach-around.

  19. JD says:

    There are plenty of reasons to not support McCain without making shit up, fucker.

  20. Jeff aka Alcyoneus says:

    Like what, asshat?

  21. B Moe says:

    There is reason for suspicion, JD but nothing definitive. A lot of it has a tinge of trutherism, but there are some pissed off vets and former POWs that seem fairly credible.
    http://tinyurl.com/2e2jb3
    I don’t really like going there, but it is not particularly reassuring.

  22. Jeff aka Alcyoneus says:

    Oh sorry, JD. I thought you were addressing me.

  23. happyfeet says:

    Vietnam really I can’t tell you how irrelevant that is, or at least boring. They never even made a sitcom for that one. Not that I remember. And also we did Vietnam last time around and I’m think maybe we should mix it up a little. Also, Jeff – I think JD’s #19 was at Harry’s #14.

  24. happyfeet says:

    which you knew that

  25. JD says:

    Jeff – I was not referring to you. sorry if I was not clear. B Moe – I understand that there are those that feel the need to tear others down. If Harry wants to make his case, he can make it. Throwing accusations out there without any justification is the kind of shit the Dems pull. If there is a case to be made, make it.

  26. JD says:

    Just so I am clear, that topic should not be out of bounds, but at the same time, before asshats like Harry go off and overtly question the patriotism of a bona fide hero, there should be something definitive.

    On the other hand, it would be fun to see McCain run a Kerry-esque campaign.

    Dem – Sen. McCain is wrong on immigration.

    Sen. McCain – How dare you question my patriotism !!!

  27. Jeff aka Alcyoneus says:

    Harry, make your case. I wouldn’t elect McCain, but the man’s got bona fides.

    Show us, or you’ll be shown to be a liar and a damn liar.

  28. happyfeet says:

    This is a sort of interesting McCain thinger about one of his kids that he adopted.

  29. Merovign says:

    I used to observe, generally, when I was a teenager, that when Dems and Republicans got together, Bad Things Happen.

    It wasn’t until later that I noticed that when Dems and Dems got together, the same things happened. One of those non-CCFL lights going on and all that.

    I ain’t sayin’ I’d stay home in November, but if it comes down to McCain vs. Obama, I’d almost have to say Obama in the hopes that the next Congressional election would gain something from the traditional American rejection of unified government.

    Politics suck, and it seems like just about all political discussion is either whining or bragging. Too bad the process is so important that you can’t ever get away from it.

    My political bumper sticker just says:

    (testing html is fun, but will it work?)

  30. Merovign says:

    The answer is: No, the xmp tag doesn’t work. Just insert “headdesk” with angle brackets after “says:”

  31. Sean M. says:

    I suppose I could hold my nose and vote for McCain if he tapped a solid conservative for veep. And if that veep had a prominent role in shaping policy.

    God, I’m not looking forward to November. Ugh.

  32. Mikey NTH says:

    Just a sidenote: The role of a legislator is different from the role of a president. How a man behaves politcally in the senate may give an indication how he will behave in the presidency, but the differences are apparent. A legislator represents a district within a state, or a state, but not the whole nation (though that of course has to be taken into account). That representative capacity, and the fact that in one house each is one of 435 and in the other one of 100, and operating through committees, is vastly different from the presidency where it is one national head working through assistants. I think that has to be kept in mind when judging a senator’s record. A senator or representative that does not compromise at all is going to be singularly ineffective on any level in congress.

    The two branches are different, with different powers and different roles, and that produces different behavior depending on which office a person occupies.

  33. Slartibartfast says:

    I’m going out on a limb and predicting that “Harry” won’t return, or will return with no evidence spluttering that we’re all denialists.

    Here‘s the John McCain wiki entry regarding his stint as POW:

    In August 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[37][33] Teeth and bones were broken again as was McCain’s spirit; the beginnings of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.[33] After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda “confession” that said he was a “black criminal” and an “air pirate”,[33] although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal the statement was forced.[40] He would later write, “I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine.”[37] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.[41] His captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[42] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract “confessions”.[37] On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers’ offensive line.[40] On another occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain’s painful rope bindings for a night; when he later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot[43] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity[44][45]). McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.[37]

    In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected.[37] In December 1969, McCain was transferred to Hoa Loa Prison, which later became famous via its POW nickname of the “Hanoi Hilton”.[37] McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime;[37] to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, “I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself.”[37] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before.[37]

    My apologies in advance if “Harry” somehow shows up with the goods. And then I’ll be forced to rethink my opinion of the little pigfelcher.

  34. Slartibartfast says:

    I especially liked that bit about the Packers offensive line.

    Politically, McCain does things I vehemently disagree with. Don’t fuck with the war record, though, unless you’ve really got something solid.

  35. JD says:

    Amen, Slarti.

  36. Harry says:

    Evidence? Did we need evidence to show John Kerry was a fucking liar about his actions in Vietnam? I don’t think so. What’s important is to know what is in a man’s heart. John McCain has been working against Vietnam veterans from day one.

    Gee, so McCain was a POW due to his own incompetence flying a plane, and this makes him qualified to be President? I don’t think so.

  37. JD says:

    You really are a prick, Harry, and show an aboslutely fundamental understanding of the problems people had with Sen. Kerry.

  38. JD says:

    What’s important is to know what is in a man’s heart

    Please enlighten us as to how you know what is truly in Sen. McCain’s heart.

    People like Harry deserve public scorn.

  39. Spies, Brigands, and Pirates says:

    Harry: On another thread here I said “I’m not going to vote for a guy (McCain) who shits on the First Amendment. Not now. Not ever. No matter what his war record might be.”

    Take that viewpoint into consideration when you read the following comment:

    Eat a dick.

    Seriously.

  40. Slartibartfast says:

    I don’t think so

    You went one word beyond accuracy, there, Harry.

    It’s kind of hard to fly an airplane when it’s missing a wing, Harry, you asshelmet.

  41. Slartibartfast says:

    Harry Asshelmet. That will be your name, from now on. And this will be your teeshirt.

  42. Sean M. says:

    Eat a dick.

    Seriously.

    I think a dick’s too good eatin’ for a guy like him.

    “Eat shit and die” is probably a more appropriate recommendation.

  43. Slartibartfast says:

    I think a dick’s too good eatin’ for a guy like him.

    Umm…if I don’t ask, promise you won’t tell?

  44. Sean M. says:

    Hey, Slart, some people consider that to be fine dining. I’m just saying, is all.

  45. Sean M. says:

    My link didn’t seem to work in that last comment. Which made me look…epicurious.

  46. Slartibartfast says:

    Ah. That explains much.

  47. Evidence? Did we need evidence to show John Kerry was a fucking liar about his actions in Vietnam?

    yes, yes we did and most of it was a bit more reliable than some virtually anonymous troll.

  48. happyfeet says:

    Karl. Have you done a look yet at McCain’s organization and ground game? With no money grandpa can’t have much going on with that with respect to Super Tue. Not sure about Florida. I’m thinking that a hard look at his organization would demonstrate the extent to which his MSM allies will have to propel his campaign going forward.

  49. Harry says:

    I think it’s sad to see people defending someone who has shown so much scorn for the veterans of this great nation.

  50. JD says:

    Harry Asshelmet – Provide evidence, or fuck off. I do not care if you are right, left, center, undecided, etc … Your assertions and baseless accusations should embarass you, but lacking character yourself, it does not appear to effect you. If you have evidence, make your case. Otherwise, you are an asshat of the highest order.

  51. Karl says:

    happyfeet,

    Good point. I haven’t seen much on McC’s ground game, so I’ll nose around a bit.

  52. happyfeet says:

    I think anytime you align McCain with veterans even in a derogatory way you’re climbing on board the Straight Talk. He’s so much more than a veteran, really. For example, he’s also a douche.

  53. Pablo says:

    If you want to attack him on his record, Asshelmet, feel free to do so and you’ll get little opposition here. But if you want to attack his war record, and you’ve got the exactly jack shit nothing you’ve brought to the table, don’t start whining about the response you receive. the guy went through the grinder for this great nation, and for that he deserves our respect. Not our votes, mind you, but our respect. Show some or expect none.

    Maybe Assbonnet? Assturban?

  54. Karl says:

    hf,

    Good point about the douchiness.

  55. JD says:

    and for that he deserves our respect. Not our votes, mind you, but our respect. Show some or expect none

    Well said, Pablo. I am just going to call him fucker, a title previously only held by timmah and caric. fuckers, one and all.

    The irony is that I find myself defending someone that on election day, will probably have to start drinking again to vote for him.

  56. happyfeet says:

    If you haven’t seen it, then I’m betting the reason is there’s not much to say about McC’s ground game… an entirely astro-turfed Presidential campaign. After the way they finagled campaign finance reform, I guess we knew it was coming.

  57. Slartibartfast says:

    That’s pretty much by entire beef with McCain, hf, and I don’t even have to make shit up to make that point.

    But I think I’m preaching to the choir in that respect.

  58. Slartibartfast says:

    I think it’s sad to see people defending someone who has shown so much scorn for the veterans of this great nation.

    Yes, it is sad. Maybe you should knock it off.

  59. […] that I enjoy going beyond horse race polls, PW regular happyfeet asked about the state of Sen. John McCain’s ground game — so I looked into the […]

  60. Dayna Houston says:

    Hillary in the times since Bill left the white house has forgotten who she is. She needs to be more forward thinking, not just the with the war, but even healthcare…I was undecided regarding her and Obama; however, after the last debate, I believe mandating Universal Healthcare is ridiculous. The massive amounts of taxes that we currently pay were dealt as mandatory social programs. We do not live in a communist society such that we have to be mandated to participate – if the premiums are affordable. Obama sinched me, not just with the war, but with the healthcare arguement – Hillary’s cornerstone. If premiums are affordable, those that do not have healthcare will purchase. Mandating Universal Healthcare and leaving premiums for congress/the executive office to decide is too risky.

    Furthermore, when voting, we need to take ALL things into account. No one candidate has everything. In my opinion, the only reason that some Republicans have made it into office is b/c of narrow minded views such as the abortion and marriage arguement – of which I agree w/ them on, but things like the economy and terrorism ARE more important that what someone does in their personal life – that which does not effect someone else. Personal preference and choice should not be more important to our vote than safety, violence, the economy, and jobs.

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