Not so much an “open” thread as it a thread dedicated to taking pot shots at the Kid Rocks while simultaneously extolling the virtue of having a team in a market where you can spend $50 million just for the rights to speak to a Japanese star — then spend an additional $55 million to sign him. So that he can win 15 games. And post an ERA around 4.
The Rockies’ team payroll, incidentally, comes in at about $54 — $17 of which goes to Todd Helton.
David and Goliath? Perhaps.
But I like to think of it as Bud Fox vs. Gordon Gecko — without Daryl Hannah strutting around complicating things.
On another note: My wife is heading out of town for a few days — she’s leaving here in about an hour — so I’ll be and posting then.
Until that time — let the trash talking begin!
****
update: Kurkjian breaks it down.
Eg. Manny Ramirez patrolling left field at Coors? Like asking Oliver Willis to play goalie for the US National Soccer team. Unless the ball happens to be hit right at him — or it comes in unexpectedly covered in chocolate and peanut butter — not much change he gets to it.
And still end up 50 Mil in payroll behind your biggest rival, the team that continually treats you as their personal rented mule, flagellating your hopes, breaking your heart and crushing your spirit at every chance.
BUT NOT THIS YEAR!!!!!!
So…what’s your prediction, Jeff?
Mine? It’s gonna be one cold series. Take that one to the bank.
For all the Yankee fans who dare show up on this thread:
Year 2-thousand, clap, clap, clapclapclap.
Year 2-thousand, clap, clap, clapclapclap.
As for the Rox, well, when the cheapest seats in Fenway are currently going for about $800 a pop, well, it’s a slightly different atmosphere from earlier in the summer when they beat Beckett & Schilling.
Should be a great series, although I’m interested to see what the Rox do with Jimenez the way the Red Sox beat Carmona like a tied up goat in games 2 & 6 of the ALCS.
Jeff: True about Dice-K but look at it this way. The Yankees were the only other team in on the bidding for the boy wonder. Do you think the bombers wished they had him in the starting rotation this year and do you think they would have beaten the Sox for the division title?
Reflection, it’s what’s for dinner!
Sox in 5. I just don’t see the Rockies’ pitching holding Boston in check.
(This is actually a reverse-psychology method of tricking the sports gods into helping the Rockies win, as the team i Officially Cheer Forâ„¢ never, ever wins.)
Go Red Sox!
wink nudge
Screw not only the Red sox,but the Pats,Celtics,John Kerry and the entire Kennedy clan.
Dice-K (and for that matter, J.D. Drew) will do much better next year after they’ve had a chance to acclimate to the rather … strenuous … media and fan base in Boston. Hell, Dice-K can’t speak the language, has never eaten the food; I went to Japan for two weeks and was nearly overwhelmed. I’d say he’s done well to have a winning record. Not to mention he’s got one less day between starts and the season is longer.
Jeff G. – funny you should say that given that the defensive star of last night’s game was arguably Manny Ramirez. I don’t know who plays left field for the Rockies but I bet he has a hell of a time with balls off the wall in Fenway.
As far as all the money the Red Sox spent, hey – the fans support the team with their $, why shouldn’t the management spend it. At least they spent it wisely. The insane thing (as pointed out above) is that they’re playing in the same division with a team that outspends them by about 30%. And what did the Yankees get for their 30% higher payroll? Now, the teams to really pity are Toronto, Baltimore and Tampa Bay. Imagine having to play 36 or 38 games every year against the Red Sox and the Yankees. Good for the box office, but bad for the record.
Rockies in 7…
Screw the Sox…. Go Rockies!!!!
You’ll note that Manny’s defense isn’t what he’s paid for. Fuck the humidifier, you’d better soak those balls in a bucket of glue, or you’ll never see them again.
Sox in 6.
It’s going to be a good series I think. The Sox may have the better of the pitching compliment, but the Rockies have the deeper lineup and the defense to bring their pitching staff closer. The Red Sox have nothing to fear in the back end of their lineup, it’s even worse when they don’t have the DH. It’s like having every other inning off for the Rockies pitching. Rockies pitchers have to get through Ortiz and Manny without giving up too many long balls and I think they got a shot. The Rockies will have all kinds of problems with Beckett, he’s just that good. They will get hits against Shilling and the rest of the Sox lineup. The only wild card is the knuckleball throwing Wakefield. He absolutely mezmorized the Rockies the last time they faced him. Now they’ve seen him once and I’m not sure how the knuckle responds in the colder weather. With him on the mound they either chase him in four or five innnings with a lead or Wakefield just frustrates the lineup to a four hit one run game. It’s going to be close.
Red Sox in 6. Beckett and the the much greater Red Sox postseason experience will be the difference. Much like the Indians, the Rockies have a very talented line-up but I believe, much as the Indians did, the Rockies will melt under the lights of the biggest stage in baseball. Plus, the layoff will hurt the Rockies especially since they have to travel to Fenway for Games 1 and 2. The Sox take the first two at home. The Rockies take two of three in Denver mainly due to the DH Ortiz being limited to pinch-hit duty though he wins the pivotal Game 5 on a dramatic late-inning blast and Schilling closes it out in Fenway in Game 6.
Don’t forget Provincetown.
Speaking for everyone in Cleveland, go Rockies. Whatever dark powers you’ve enlisted to keep this crazyness going, burn it up on the Red Stockings and shut up what’s easily the most obnoxious fan base in baseball. Oh, and hit Beckett with lightning while you’re at it. XOXO
I’d like to thank the Colorado Rockies for participating in this year’s World Series.
RDub: I’m assuming you’ve seen games at Yankee stadium. Have you ever talked to a Yankees fan?
Most insane? Paranoid? Manic Depressive? Yes! Red Sox Nation is all about meds and group therapy.Most obnoxious? Nah, go check out the Bronx.
I’m pulling for the Pebbles, but realistically, they’ll be lucky to pull this out. Boston’s on a pretty good roll right now, too, and coming back from that 3-1 deficit is going to give them confidence. If the Rockies want to win this, they’re going to have to take the same “nothing to lose” attitude that’s carried them through the last month and a half. Still, Sox in 7, much as it pains me to say it.
That said, if the Rockies do win, at least we won’t have to hear any overwrought persecution-complex addled fans crying about how “this is for the grandfather’s sister’s cousin’s former roomates that never got to experience a World Series championship.”
“I don’t know who plays left field for the Rockies but I bet he has a hell of a time with balls off the wall in Fenway.”
That would be Matt “Chin Scrape” Holliday, the potential and deserving NL MVP. Who plays left field for Boston?
BJ: yeah, I’ve got NYC contractors on the phone with me and my people all day. Yes, I drink – why do you ask?
I don’t want to step on any Sox fan toes here, but in general they’ve been insufferable the last couple years. But hey – I get the distinct feeling that it’s about to turn into a bad 10+ years for the Yanks. Surely we can all get together and just enjoy that!
Well, after taking it over the head, on the chin and up the, ah, you know, #2 flows very nicely from #1. Sorry, RDub there’s too much historical psychic low self esteem that needs to be buried by being as insufferabl;e now as we’ve been miserable for 80 some odd years.
And, yes, I have New York contractor customers too. I’ll join in a gutter for a drink. :-)
Red Sox in 6.
Knowing the Rockies took 2 of 3 this year from the Sox in Beantown does make me pause, but there is a huge difference between a mid-season game and the World Series. The Rockies haven’t really faced a screaming opposing crowd like the one in Fenway in October, and this is going to come in to play. CC Sabathia and Fausto Carmona completely wilted at Fenway, and they are two of the best pitchers in the AL. I will be suprised if the Rockies win any in Fenway. But I do believe that the Rockies gain an advantage at home due to the fact that we lose a good bat by having to bench either Youkilis or Lowell. Don’t worry about Papi at first. He actually has a decent glove. And the talk about Manny in left is a little overblown as well. He’ll be fine at Coors, which is not what I can say for the cover of the balls he is going to destroy.
This isn’t the Quadruple A team known as the D-backs the Rockies drew with this card. They are facing a team that still has seven guys who did this three years ago. Unlike in Arizona, there will be no stupid parlor tricks in the crowd to make up for the empty seats, just pure unadulterated full volume Red Sox Nation inhabitants who think it’s worth it to fork over several hundred dollars for a single game ticket in the bleachers.
Jeff makes the argument about the payroll, but I ask seriously -are you saying the Rockies wouldn’t spend this much money if they had it too? Or are you making excuses already?
Bring it cowboys. It’s showtime.
I don’t know how the layoff will impact the Rockies. They weren’t hitting in the NLCS — and it was fastballs that was giving them problems. Seems to me the layoff and rest could be good for them. 21 out of 22 — must win mode for about a month — can be draining, I imagine. They looked to be running on adrenaline, fumes, and decent pitching there by the end.
The thing about the Rox vs. Sox, as I see it: The Rox are familiar with Beckett, Schilling, Timlin, Lopez, and Gagne (from their time in the NL), and — to a lesser extent — Wakefield (having faced him earlier this year). Offensively, they know Drew, Lugo, and Lowell quite well. The Sox don’t have a situational lefty reliever that will bother the Rox (Lopez was a Rockie for several years, and isn’t much of a mystery to Rox hitters). And Oki-whathaveyou throws straight over the top — making him equally effective against righties and lefties, but not much of a lefty specialist. I admit, I have no idea how he gets people out — other than that he has batters mesmerized by the thought that on any given pitch his neck might snap and his head come clean off.
Were it me, I’d activate Aaron Cook and have him pitch game 2 at Fenway. I think he’s better equipped for the task, and I’d like to see Jimenez pitch with a hometown crowd in a stadium where lefties won’t be able to swing late and have lazy flies to left turn into doubles. But I don’t see Hurdle making that change.
The key to the series for the Rockies is throwing strike one, and staying out of the middle of the plate. The Sox are patient hitters, but they handle fastballs better than they do offspeed stuff. And the Rockies have to hit. They haven’t done much of that in the last two series — making the sweeps that much more impressive, in my mind.
Manny made a nice play on Lofton’s ball yesterday, but he doesn’t have much range in left, and he doesn’t take particularly good angles on fly balls. Coors field has a huge outfield, so I’m interested to see how he plays it. And Youkilis is a much better glove man than Ortiz. Still, I imagine the Sox will chance putting Ortiz at first for the games in Colorado. Making the bunting and speed game of Tavarez and Matsui that much more important.
Breaking it down by position, I see it this way:
1B – Helton over Youkilis
2B – Matsui and Pedroia (wash); I give the edge offensively to Pedroia, but Matsui’s speed and defense even things out a bit.
SS – Tulo over Lugo / Cora
3B – Atkins and Lowell (wash): Atkins .301 25 111; Lowell .324 21 120. But note that at the end of May, Atkins was hitting .221, and hit .365 over the remainder of the season.
C – Varitek over Torrealba — both bring great intangibles, and Torrealba’s work with the young Latin pitchers can’t be understated. But Varitek has a better throwing arm and a lot more experience in the post season. So in spite of who’s had the better post season up to now (Torrealba gets the edge there), I give the nod to Bosox captain
2 Colorado; 2 even; 1 Boston
LF — Holliday and Ramirez (wash); Holliday had the better year, is the better defensive outfielder by far, and has more speed, but Manny is one of the greatest right handed hitters of all time, and he’s a fantastic clutch hitter. Only Helton is in his league hitting with 2 strikes. Still, don’t underestimate Holliday, who is more than just a power hitter.
CF – Tavares over Crisp / Ellsbury. It remains to be seen who the Red Sox go with. All have speed, all can track balls in the outfield. But Taveras is a better baserunner than Crisp, and has more experience than Ellsbury.
RF – Hawpe over Drew. Drew has all the talent in the world, and the potential to carry a team on his back. Ditto Hawpe. Drew has better speed; Hawpe the better throwing arm. But Hawpe was second in the majors with two out RBI, and over the last month has hit lefties very well.
He’s also quite streaky. So if he’s hitting well, he could carry the Rox in the series. If he’s not hitting, that’s a different story. But he does take a lot of walks, and has turned into a very patient hitter, particularly with runners on base.
Colorado 2; even 1.
DH – Ortiz over anybody, unless we can sign, say, Paul Molitor.
Boston 1
Starters: Beckett over Francis. No doubt Beckett is one of baseball’s best pitchers. The Rockies have spent this year doing much of their damage against the best pitchers in the NL — or at least, getting the better of them (beating Peavy, Hamels, and Webb in their latest run, as well as Chris Young, Brad Penny and whoever else the Dodgers threw at them).
Schilling over Jimenez — for experience. I think the Rockies will handle Schilling, but until we see how Jimenez performs, you give the nod to one of the best pitchers in post season history.
Dice-K over Fogg — Fogg wouldn’t have it any other way, of course. Wonder if Matsui will be able to provide a detailed scouting report on Dice-K…?
Cook/Morales vs Wakefield (wash); Funny that Wakefield was the only Boston starter to beat the Rockies in Fenway this year, besting Cook 2-1. But his back is a question mark, and the Rockies have now seen his knuckleball once. As another commenter noted, he could be awesome, or he could get shelled. Morales hasn’t gone more than 4 innings in the post season, but at the same time, he hasn’t given up more than 2 runs, either — he just happened to be in games where Hurdle rolled the dice and removed him, and twice it’s worked out.
But in September, he threw 20 consecutive scoreless innings. So he’s no slouch.
Cook, on the other hand, hasn’t pitched in over a month. Still, he throws a hard sinker and a decent 4-seam fastball in the mid nineties, so he’s much like Westbrook in that regard. And with the defense he has behind him, he’s always a pitch away from getting out of trouble. Threw a 72 pitch complete game earlier this season. Key to Cook? Throw some breaking balls and changeups, and don’t just throw the sinker every pitch. Take a cue from Webb.
Sox 3, even 1.
Bullpen — wash. I think the Rockies are deeper, but in a short series, Papelbon might be the arm of choice for the Red Sox. Betancourt was overused and ran out of gas for Cleveland. The Rockies can only hope Papelbon is juiced up and elevates his split a bit. And the Red Sox can hope Corpas melts under the pressure.
Even.
Defense — Rockies have the clear edge, particularly at Coors.
Rockies.
Of course, none of this matters. It all comes down to how the teams react during this series. The Sox have the momentum coming in. But should the Rockies get to Beckett again (the scored 6 off him in June, but these circumstances are quite different), that could change.
And I like our chances against Beckett pitching in Coors in game 5 if it gets that far.
So. There you have it.
Feel free to agree or disagree.
No dog in this fight (the Phillies came close, breaking hearts again), but I’ll root for the Rockies because I hate Red Sox fans with the burning intensity of a bottle of witchhazel poured into my eye.
Sox in 6.
I was pulling for the Rockies, but the fun’s over folks….
I could go through all the reasons why the Sox win in 5, but I’ll just throw out 2 simple facts that tell you everything you need to know:
1. Road splits for Rockies hitters
2. The Rockies #1 starter has a 4.24 road ERA. In the AAAA National League. You know, the league without the the DH.
Steve,
Either the regular season doesn’t mean anything and the AAA NL comment goes out the window (St. Louis Carndinals anyone?) OR it does mean something and the Rockies going to Fenway and taking two out of three games and out scoring Boston 20-5 offers some foreshadowing. Which is it?
The league without the DH doesn’t throw their starters 8 innings. Oftentimes them come out after 5 and 6. ERAs can go up.
As for home/road splits — in an uneven schedule, the Rockies play disproportionately in pitcher friendly parks against some of the best rotations in the NL (Dodgers, Giants, Padres. They faced Webb 7 times this year). What stands out is that they closed strong on the road, and finished only a couple games under.
Plus, their pitchers get that home/road split, as well.
Could be an interesting series, or it could be a blowout. Time will tell.
Either the regular season doesn’t mean anything and the AAA NL comment goes out the window (St. Louis Carndinals anyone?) OR it does mean something and the Rockies going to Fenway and taking two out of three games and out scoring Boston 20-5 offers some foreshadowing. Which is it?
The regular season is your best indicator of ability. The Rox offense is nowhere near as good as people think becasue of Coors. Just look a the offensive home/road splits.
The pitching splits are much more interesting. Where just about all hitters benefit from Coors greatly, some pitchers can perform well at Coors and some can’t. The Rockies front office did a great job of getting some guys who have favorable ground/fly ball ratios, and it’s given them a nice home field advantage. It’s also made them a pretty lousy road team – but something’s gotta give with that park. For them to get where they are is pretty astonishing, actually – and took really forward thinking from O’Dowd et al.
I do agree that the 3 games at Coors will be real interesting – but the lack of starting pitching (especially away from Coors) and the over-rated offense compared to the Sox give the Sox the clear advantage.
And someone said something about Manny in right at Coors – that’s gonna be awful. No doubt – but he may hit some shots to Nevada, so I think it’ll be OK.
Good points, Jeff – but the offensive splits are HUGE – 200 pts of OPS is a alot. But the unblanced schedule does exagerate the splits – true enough.
“Plus, their pitchers get that home/road split, as well.”
I wrote about his above. Check out the dif between their pitchers and hitters splits. Pitchers that get alot of grounders aren’t real succeptible to the park effect, while just about all of their hitters benefit. A little more complicated than I thought. That park makes the Rockies the hardest team to scout with stats in baseball.
The thing that scares me most about the Rockies is winning all those games with just the one loss. Clearly something going on there that’s hard to quantify….
The Cook situation is a real head-scratcher. He’s probably more mentally equipped to handle Fenway than Morales is, but the layoff is a serious consideration. He also won’t have Ianetta catching for him, and those two were starting to develop a lethal chemistry before Cook got hurt. Plus, with Cook, you never know if the lineup is going to hit even if he’s doing well–guy gets the worst run support I’ve ever seen.
Given all that, though, I’d pitch Francis and either Cook or Fogg in Boston, and figure it out from there. I’d prefer Fogg because he’s been such a giant-killer this season, and I think he’s not going to sweat the pressure. Save the one who doesn’t start, along with Jimenez and Morales for Coors, then repeat with Francis and Cook/Fogg if the series goes back to Boston.
The Kid Rocks are gonna drub the Red Socks like a Waffle House patron.
No, that way is Wyoming. Nevada would be a vicious foul back. He can do that all he wants.
I’m just along for the beer and hotdogs, but my wife, the real baseball fan, is just tickled as hell that the Rockies have made it this far.
By the way, has anyone ever won the World Series without losing a single game in post season? Could happen this year! You can scramble all the statistics you want, but these guys wouldn’t be here if they didn’t have good stats. At this point I think it comes down to guts and I think the Rockies want it bad.
Forget the player matchup, the real story is the shitty ballpark in Boston. AL players get used to it, but it drives the NL guys nuts. Edgar Rentarria went from an All-Star shortstop to a goat there, then back to top-notch performance in Atlanta. Fenway is the Sox’s best weapon.
I’m a Sox fan, but if the Rockies win I’ll doff my cap to a job well done. That said, I don’t think the Rockies will win. The Sox have a group of playoff hardened veterans. This is the second time the team has come back from the dead and they’re stronger for it. The Rockies have been living the dream up until now, but what happens in their minds should they find themselves down 0 – 2? Will they still have the same confidence to know that they can come back and beat the Sox? Or will they finally realize that they’ve been playing above their ability?
Just for the record, the Braves are bringing Phil Niekro out of retirement next year.
You are doomed.
And I, for one, welcome our new Clint Hurdle-led masters.
“Clint Hurdle-led” is not a typo.
Amazingly.
momentum, joe-mentum. thats what its all about in the post season.
Sox got it, rocks been on ice (literally) for 9 days. Game one will show if the latter is an issue. I think it will be. Although, heres the rub, i think game 1 will will be the closest. 4-1 or 4-2 Sox, edge to Rocks for the Schilling start in Boston and the Dice-K start in Denver, thats it.
Take your statistical odds, what is probablity of a 21 game win streak extending to 25 versus a 3 game wining streak going to 7? look it up – baseballcube.com – or something similar.
Like others said here … its not the middle of the season inter-league game. You can throw those stats out the window. Its the grand ball of the big show. Experience counts. You got kids in the NL contenders. D’backs folded like a cheap chair – u saw it happen to the kids in Cleveland, once they realized where they were and what it meant – they just whithered. I’m telling ya it was palpable, looking at their faces. They were overwhelmed.
Sox have that edge in spades and it will be the difference. With veterans from 2004 and Becket who has done this, with less (3 days rest to pitch game 6) , against more (fargin 2003 Yanquis).
Rocks, in a couple of years maybe if they aren’t poached clean by the monsters of the AL East and congrats to them for getting this far.
You’re all overlooking the unbelievable karma the Rox get for voting a full share to Mike Coolbaugh’s survivors.
hey for all you rockies fans i just got one question for you all…has holiday acctually touched homeplate yet from that playoff game against SD?…….oh and jiminez said the red sox fans are the best and baseball and can get loud but colorado has seen em before and knows what to expect, apparently hes played a WS game in boston and hasnt told anyone yet……sox in 5, write that one down
I was for Cleveland. They had a great second-half season last year and a great season this year. If you could say anyone “deserved” being there, they did. But of course, deserving means nothing; you must win the games.
Having said that, having the Sox lose is right behind in my priorities of having the Yankees lose, and any time the Yankees lose I smile. My reasons for this are purely irrational, just like when talking football, and when the Cowboys and Miami are playing, the team that I really want to lose is the Patriots. Though since Miami started playing so bad, my hate for them is dissipating.
I think the Rockies will win one or two games. If they win three they should be proud. I hope they win it all, and it would be even better if they stomped Boston into the ground.
Cranky -d;
That was very, very sweet. I just wanted to let you know that the humanitarian caravan of 18 wheelers has left New England on it’s way to the Cleveland area carrying block ice for the bruising and skids of boxed tissues for the weeping.
Tearing of clothes and rending of hair? You’re on your own. ;-)
“hey for all you rockies fans i just got one question for you all…has holiday acctually touched homeplate yet from that playoff game against SD?…….”
Christ, not this again…two points 1) if San Diego (and more specifically, Trevor Hoffman) had done their fucking job, there wouldn’t have been a one-game playoff to begin with. Which leads to 2), at least we’ve been saved another postseason of T-ball quality playoff baseball from the Padres.
the sportswriters didn’t put in Jimenez’ whole statement. He said the Red Sox fans are the best–at being obnoxious twerps who equate 80 years of largely successful baseball with complete and utter failure. Is it any wonder most of Massachusetts is liberal? Try being a Cubs fan and you can whine to us about how unfair fate was to you.
Local papers take on Spilborgs
http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=SPORTS&ID=565109098710958138
I used to work with the kids dad
Can’t access it without registering or paying, unfortunately.
Ted:
Do me a favor: Sit through the ninth inning of the sixth game of the 1986 World Series and then feel free to ruminate about how overheated the Nation is about failure. That was one of the worst experiences of my life and I swore that I would never care about a sports team as much as that again.
Three run lead, one strike away on three different hitters. Painful! I feel for Cubs fans.
This coming from a guy who was eleven years old sitting in the center field bleachers for game six of the 1967 world series.
(friggin Bob Gibson, grumble, mutter)
“…Red Sox fans are the best–at being obnoxious twerps who equate 80 years of largely successful baseball with complete and utter failure.”
If you knew anything about the Sox (which you obviously do not), you’d know that the whole deal was that we would get REALLY,REALLY close, but not win. Not that we just sucked – no one here has ever said that. Curse of the Bambino, all of that.
I was 13 in 86 and consider myself permenantly scarred.
2003 didn’t help either.
I can understand that other fans around the country don’t get the whole Red Sox thing – the family portion of it and all of that.
From Mark Patton
SB News Press
October 23, 2007 7:32 AM
Spilborghs and Co. stay cool in Colorado before heading to World Series
It was High Noon on Monday when Ryan Spilborghs arrived for the Colorado Rockies’ 5 p.m. workout at chilly Coors Field. His teammates had five full hours to take their best shots before getting down to business.
“It’s been abuse as usual — we’re constantly nagging on each other, like it’s a sibling rivalry or something,” Spilborghs explained with a laugh.
Brothers in arms, he called it.
The former UCSB and Santa Barbara High star makes himself a frequent target by riding his bike to games, or wearing clothes with the color combination of an Azerbaijan flag.
“If somebody wears an ugly shirt, they’ll make fun of that,” he pointed out. “If someone says something stupid in the newspaper, they’ll let them know about that, too.”
But Spilborghs beat them all to the draw on Monday. A teammate noticed as he walked through the clubhouse in a business suit and then nodded his concession:
“Nice shirt,” he said dejectedly.
“I’m looking quite dapper,” Spilborghs responded proudly. “We’re in our traveling suits today.”
His suit may not have included the colors of Azerbaijan, but the Rockies did get to fly the National League pennant when they took off for Boston Monday night: They’ll play the first World Series game in their history on Wednesday at 5:30 p.m.
Colorado had to make baseball history to get to this point, winning 21 of 22 games. The Rockies are 8-0 for the month of October, and no team has ever done that, either.
But no team has ever had an eight-day layoff before playing in the World Series, either — a cloud in the silver lining of their four-game sweep of Arizona in the National League Championship Series.
Spilborghs set himself up for some clubhouse banter when newspapers quoted him widely as saying, “We’ll probably scrimmage ourselves, and it’ll be the first time in a while we’ll lose.”
But as it turned out, the Rockies refused to admit defeat even in that game. They mixed coaches into the lineups for Friday’s scrimmage, including even manager Clint Hurdle.
“No one would say if someone lost,” Spilborghs said. “I guess we all won that day.”
The other scrimmage was snowed out, although the pitching staff did engage in a snowball fight.
“We didn’t get to join in — we were inside, in the batting cage,” Spilborghs said disappointedly.
But the Kid Rocks are still having fun, even though the task would still seem daunting: They will open up their first World Series in a ballpark that is more museum than stadium, and against a lineup that can be featured in Fortune Magazine just as easily as the Sporting News.
But don’t tell Spilborghs that low-budget Colorado is the underdog.
“Sure, going to Fenway Park will be exciting with all the history there,” he said. “I mean, Babe Ruth played there. But we’re just going to enjoy it like everything else — it sure won’t put any more more pressure on us.
“It may seem like a fairy tale to some, but for the people in this clubhouse, this is pretty normal. We’re just a bunch of friends playing baseball together, and we’ve gotten good at it.”
Spilborghs thought the team had a good chance to make the World Series even during spring training.
“Looking at who was on the team back then, I knew we were going to be good,” he said. “I obviously didn’t think we’d win 21 of 22 — that’s pretty incredible — but I never doubted that we could make it here.
“Our demeanor has been the same since day one. We’ve got that quiet confidence in the clubhouse, and that becomes huge when we go outside of it.”
Spilborghs batted .299 with 11 home runs and 51 RBIs in 264 at-bats after Colorado promoted him from its triple-A farm club on May 19. He filled in as the starting centerfielder for a month until Willy Taveras returned from an injury during the NLCS against Arizona.
Spilborghs welcomed him back with open arms — and the obligatory, good-natured insults — even though Taveras reduced his playing time against the Diamondbacks to two pinch-hit appearances.
“We’re a better team with Willy on the field,” he said.
Spilborghs may rejoin the starting lineup in Boston since the designated hitter rule is used when World Series games are played in the American League ballpark.
“I have no idea what they’re going to do yet,” he said. “It is tougher to hit when you’re not actually out on the field all the time — it’s hard to get the same blood flow going.
“But it also gives you the opportunity to watch video of how they’re pitching to you during the middle of the game.”
Spilborghs’ parents, Rene and Essie, will be watching on television when the series begins in Boston, but his dad plans to attend the games in Denver. Essie — who suffers from a lung ailment — will join him if she feels up to it.
“She is feeling better,” Spilborghs said. “They were both here for the Philadelphia series. She was even in the clubhouse for the celebration.”
And the brothers were all on their best behavior that night.
cranky-d – In general, I agree with you. I never tire of a Patriots loss, and am looking forward to sitting in my seats watching them lose to my Colts in a couple weeks. I especially like your quote about the Patriots. When my Cardinals and anyone else plays, I hope the Cubs lose. I despise the BoSox for no particular reason, and the minor league AL in general, so I will be cheering for the Rox.
“hey for all you rockies fans i just got one question for you all…has holiday acctually touched homeplate yet from that playoff game against SD?…….â€Â
Watch the highlights did you? Miss the the part where Atkins home run was ruled a double in the seventh? Thereby forcing 4 extra innings, forcing the ump to use a rule saying that you are safe if the catcher blocks the plate without the ball? No? Well now you know!
Rox in five, hard to even give that game.
Watching those teams play sloppy ball makes me appreciate defense, because I didn’t see any Sunday. Best defense ever.
I won’t bash the Rockies, but it’s probably a good thing Cleveland is out. Chuch would probably have kittens if the real indians were in town.
JD:
Nt only will the Pats befuddle Manning and Colts but an evil little troop of homicidal clown dwarfs will be paying a visit to your place of work.
No. no, don’t thank me… ;-)
BJ – Them are fightin’ words. The Pats offense may be too much for our re-tooled “D’, but the days of befuddlement at the 3-4 D of the Pats have long since passed. 3 in a row over the Pats, including 2 at your house. Though, at this pace, Brady is likely to break Peyton’s single season TD pass record in week 9.
Homicidal clown dwarfs will have no effect on me. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Sifr. Much like the 3-4 D will have on the Colts offense.
Just please go easy on my Skins this week, huh?
Red Sox fans the most obnoxious in baseball? Please. Atlanta in a walk. Chop this, you ignorant jerks.
craigc – The ‘Skins can still look forward to a successful season, since they play in the NFC. Doesn’t it bother you that O-Dub cheers for the ‘Skins as well? Jam his pie-hole full of Ben & Jerry’s, and he could serve as the entire left side of the offensive line.
I think they should allow the Rox pitchers to play with a BP L screen – they’re not used to facing Major League hitters, and someone could get hurt.
First comment ever. Did I make it through
Looks like I did. I say Boston in three. The Rox will quit after the lashing they ar going to take.
Kidding.
Rox culd sweep their home games on flukey October weather alone.
“If you knew anything about the Sox (which you obviously do not),”
How could anyone NOT know anything about the Sox? It’s not like it hasn’t been a sportswriters’ obsession for decades, perpetually feeding the persecution complex–the most famous moment in franchise history up to 2004 was a home run in a series that the Sox LOST. How winning a World Series could make their fans any more insufferable is beyond the scope of Christ himself to fabricate, but bless their hearts, Sox nation managed to go the extra mile on that one.
ROTFLMAO
The experts seem to think the biggest problem facing the Rockies is the 8 game layoff.
I know they’re loose, but I wonder how seriously they took the intrasquad games.
From what I can see so far, I think Hurdle’s first blunder is to pitch Jimenez at Fenway. He’d face a softer lineup and a friendly crowd in Coors, and as I noted a day or so back, I think the park is better suited to him — though he is, surprisingly enough, a ground ball pitcher.
I just think that in deep counts, he could get rattled. Time will tell, I guess, but I might have thrown Cook there, even though he’s been out for a while. That doesn’t work out, you can bring in Morales without the pressure of being responsible for the start — early on if you have to.
Schilling is a great big game pitcher, but he’s been getting by on a bit of luck. If the Rox have their timing back — and it was missing all post season so far — they should hit him well.
I certainly hope the 8 days off doesn’t make them worse offensively than they’ve been of late. If anything, maybe they buck conventional wisdom and come out hot.
Wouldn’t be the first time this year they’ve bucked conventional wisdom.
I hope that they do fuck the conventional wisdom, because it seems like all we have heard about all season are the BoSox and the Yankees. The 4-letter network, Fox Sports, etc … apparently do not know that there are sports played outside of the NY and Boston areas.
In any case, my home-town (birth until age 31) Padres screwed it up, and my new hometown team didn’t make the playoffs either. Plus, while baseball makes good bar conversation, I never get too worked up about it.
But, if the Sox go down, oh, boy, will I be rubbing BJTex’s face in it. ;)
Sox suck! Boston sucks! Boston sucks socks. Bruins and Celtics suck too! Oh yeah and Bill Buckner is my hero!!!
Patriots don’t suck but no longer claim to be from Boston.
sigh Trust me, it wouldn’t be the first time I ate crap for the Sox. Oh, no, not by a long shot…
I’m picking Colorado to win in 6 games. I would say 4, but I am a fan of Beckett and Schilling, so I won’t mind too much if they win a game each.
I hate to say it, as I loathe them for numerous reasons. The first and greatest of these is they are just wannabe Yankees (but they’ll never quite make it), but the Red Sox will probably win. Beckett is the best. Schilling may have his groove back (hard to tell against the Indians who dropped their bats after game 4) and the bull pen is great. The Red Sox offense may score a million runs in Colorado. Too much for the Rockies, is my guess. But, I hope I’m wrong.
As someone pointed out earlier. The differences between the Rox and the BoSox is in their stars. Holliday goes into home plate head first knocking himself senseless. Manny goes into home standing up, and then quits running and lets himself be tagged. Manny and Ortiz are epic hitters, but outside of being in the batters box, they are useless one-dimensional players. The Rox represent old school baseball, NL baseball.
What does Holliday’s .150 post season batting average say? You still have to hit. Those two players’ one dimension is a very BIG dimension. Youklis, too, is tearing it up. So is Lowell. The difference, as usual will be defense and pitching. Boston has it all, plus, two of the best hitters in the game. I hate them, but they are a great team.
HATERS!
JD #64:
The reason the networks mostly show the Yankees or Red Sox is solely due to ratings. There are just more Yankee and Red Sox fans in this country than of any other team in baseball. This year, the Sox were the most watched team in the country, and generated the highest road attendance of any team in baseball.
These teams are shown a) because the sports networks are catering to the larger fan base and b) they’re two of the better teams in all of baseball.
If you’re ESPN, and you have the choice between a Rockies/Padres game vs. a Yankees/Indians or Red Sox/Indians game (or Red Sox/Yankees), from a ratings standpoint, it’s a no brainer to go with the Red Sox or Yankees.
Why are all the sports yahoos on TV worried about snow in Denver? Have they ever been to Boston in late October? Have they watched the tapes of the 2004 playoffs against the Yanks?
It was frickin’ freezing, Mr. Bigglesworth.
It should be a fantastic series. I see one great pitching duel during the series (might be game 1) with the game ending 2-1 or 1-0. I see the games mostly ending 8-6, 9-8, as both teams can flat out rake when they get going. If the Sox don’t get contributions from the top or bottom of their lineup, however, Colorado could win this thing in 5.
However, with Pedroia and Youk swinging hot bats and even JD freaking Drew getting clutch hits, this could be a short series the other way.
All in all, I say Sox in 6 in wildly entertaining series that virtually no one outside of Denver or New England watches.
Probably the best analysis of the matchups I’ve seen yet:
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6871
so, despite the the haters like JD and OI, we now know the truth.
THE RED SOX ARE AMERICA’S TEAM!!!! BWAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA!
And being televised nationwide, consistently, has nothing to do with them being the most watched? Hell, the Cubs have every bit as large of a fan base as either of those teams, yet was prolly not on national TV half the time. Rather than imply it, I will state it. When it comes to sports, there is a definitive east coast bias, be it in baseball, basketball, or football.
BJ –
BJ – America’s Team?! I fart in your general direction.
And I had Taco Bell for lunch.
JD:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/redsox/2007-08-22-Roadattendance_N.htm
Read and weep, my friend.
Whether or not they’re nationally televised has nothing to do with the attendance.
JD: Your jealousy is not the least bit becoming, but it his amusing!
You should adopt an attitude of contentment for the 78 wins of your Cardinals and the great success of your Colts .. right up until the Patriot’s Bradley runs them down like so many Beauchamp Iraqi bitches.
You will find peace, my son…
Besides, having poplular and beloved sports teams allows us to assuage the nausea that comes with having to live surrounded by liberals. Oh, and the Yankees are the demon spawn of satan, incarnate.
JD:
East coast bias? If the networks thought it was losing them money (i.e., ratings), then they wouldn’t put those teams on more. The fact remains that the best sports cities reside in the east. I’m sorry, but I’ve been out west, and in the mid-west, and there just isn’t the same passion for sports as there is in cities like Boston, New York, Philly, etc…
Also, when considering time zone differences, it makes far more sense for ESPN or any other sports network to favor an east coast game vs. a west coast game for the mere fact that west coast games won’t start until 10pm on the East coast. That is a big hit on the ratings, as few people will stay up long enough to watch a game past midnight.
There are many reasons East coast teams are featured more prominently… bias has nothing to do with it.
“I’m sorry, but I’ve been out west, and in the mid-west, and there just isn’t the same passion for sports as there is in cities like Boston, New York, Philly, etc…” People in Pittsburgh and Cleveland would DEFINITELY debate that particular point. Especially the passion part. Their sports teams are quite possibly all these fans have. No, the passion is every bit as great in those two cities as any city on the east coast.
Oh, and I meant to say that Helton is hitting in the .150 range. My apologies to Matt Holliday fans the world over.
The idea that the love of the team and the passion of the east coast teams is any greater in the East than anywhere else is hogwash. Pure unadulterated BS. Tell that to the fans in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Dallas, St. Louis, Denver, Kansas City, etc … Unless by passion you mean obnoxious, insulting, rude, beer throwing, boo the home team kind of places. Then, you are right.
Agent W – You said most watched and highest road attendance. I did not question the highest road attendance. But to ignore the effect of being on national TV constantly is naive.
BJ – No jealousy. Just pointing out facts.
Bellicheat has a good ballclub, and so far, has really shown his character by running up the score against a bunch of patsies, and the Cowgirls. Given that they get 6 free wins in conference, they should go either 15-1, or 16-0, depending on the clash in Indy. Watch for me on TV, bitches !!!!!!!!!
JD:
Running up the score? Bellicheat? Oh my, and you have the audacity to call Boston fans obnoxious. Pot meet kettle.
“How could anyone NOT know anything about the Sox? It’s not like it hasn’t been a sportswriters’ obsession for decades, perpetually feeding the persecution complex–the most famous moment in franchise history up to 2004 was a home run in a series that the Sox LOST. How winning a World Series could make their fans any more insufferable is beyond the scope of Christ himself to fabricate, but bless their hearts, Sox nation managed to go the extra mile on that one.”
Apparently there’s not been enough coverage since people continue to say stupid things about Sox fans that people here in Boston would laugh at.
East Coast bias…Jesus J Christ.
The refs jimmied us, the world’s unfair and cry me a fuckin’ river!
Friend of mine sent this…I thought the Sox fans here might like it.
The Red Sox Prayer
Our Father, who art at Fenway
Baseball be thy game,
Thy kingdom come,
World Series won,
On earth, then onto the Cask’n Flagon
Give us this day, a perfect Beckett
And forgive us our losses,
As we forgive those,
Like Bill Buckner.
And lead us not into depression,
but deliver us from this long week or so of waiting,
For thine is the Red Sox Nation, the Power
and the Glory
To beat the Rockies
Forever and ever, Amen
__________________________________________________
Agent W – Can you say with a straight face that against Dallas, they needed to score another touchdown with the ball at the goalline, already up by 14, with 19 seconds on the clock, and the Cowgirls having no timeouts? What is the point?
When they are throttling the worst team in football, what is the point of continuing to throw the ball downfield?
Did Bellicheck cheat? This was the second time he was caught doing this. Obviously, you do not have a problem with it since he is yours. But it is impossible to say that he wasn’t cheating, and naive to think that he only did it twice, and was caught each time. His refusal to admit it, or come clean, just adds to it. But, it is no surprise, since he is a surly jerk anyway.
I do not know you from Adam, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are discussing this in good faith.
Agent W – Still waiting for your explanation as to how you get the idea that the east coast cities have more passion and love for their teams than the rest of the country.
Early returns: 8 days off have hurt the Rockies pitching staff, who don’t generally give up many walks.
Personally, I’m pulling for a 25-1 game one. Beats the hell out of losing 2-1, anyway.
Jesus has clearly abandoned the Rox. This game is fugly.
IMO, the layoff has effected the Rockies’ pitchers, but you have to understand that this Red Sox team is the MOST patient group I have seen in a long time. Generally, they just don’t swing at borderline pitches. Especially in Fenway. Have I mentioned, that I hate the Red Sox.
They are beating the holy hell out of the ball tonight. Morales looked like he had good stuff, and still got shelled. Kudos to the BoSox.
Agent W – Just to be clear, though I tire of hearing about the Sox, I am in no way questioning how talented of a ballclub they are.
I detect a certain bitterness.
Ulululululululululu!!
JD:
In regard to Dallas. What football coach, in his right mind, after seeing what had happened in the previous week with the Dal/Buf game, or any other week where teams come back on fluke plays (Music City Miracle anyone?), wouldn’t do what they can to continue to put points on the board?
Furthermore, while I concede that the chances of Dallas coming back to win the game were somewhat improbable, they were not impossible. As such, you continue to play until they become impossible.
Also, if you actually watched the game, the Patriots were attempting to run out the clock, but Wade Phillips, with under 2 minutes left to play, called a time out, thereby making it impossible for the Patriots to take a knee and run out the clock (without turning the ball back over to Dallas). So, what did the Patriots do? They ran their 5th string RB up the gut 4 times in a row. The fact that Dallas couldn’t stop them doesn’t mean the Patriots were running up the score. If you don’t want the Patriots to score that touchdown, don’t allow their 5th string RB to run over you. I’ll also state that Belichick said that, had the Cowboys pocketed their timeout and not used it, they would have just taken a knee and ran out the clock. As it was, you don’t just take a knee and hand the ball over to the other team with time remaining on the clock.
In regard to continuing to throw the ball down field. They lost their 1st and 2nd string running back. Their first string came back, but it was apparent that they were not going to use him much more than the first half, just to get his feet wet. If you’re a team with a big lead, what is it you try to do in order to ensure a win? You try to maintain possession of the ball, keep the clock running, and keep picking up first downs. The best way for the Patriots to do that was via the pass (I mean, they didn’t have to worry about stopping the clock as Brady had only 4 incomplete passes on the day).
Considering, during that very same Sunday, while the Dolphins put up 21 points in the 4th quarter against the Pats, the Texans were putting up 29 points in the 4th quarter against the Titans, I’m not sure how you can believe any lead is truly safe. At least not with almost the entire 4th quarter to go.
Also, the difference in the score between the Pats and Dolphins was 21 points. The difference in the score between the Pats and the Dolphins last year, when the Dolphins destroyed them, was 21. Somehow the Pats are now bad guys?
On Belichick ‘cheating’. That would depend on your definition of cheating. If you believe that the Denver Broncos were cheating when they circumvented the salary cap to keep John Elway, which helped them win their Super Bowls, then I’ll agree they were cheating. If you don’t think the Broncos were cheating, then I don’t see how you can say the Patriots are. Both teams broke a rule. I have no problem calling it cheating.
What I do have a problem with is this insipid idea that it tarnishes everything they do and that what Belichick did is somehow the worst thing in football. Here’s a newsflash for you… every team in the NFL steals signals. It’s part of the game and, in fact, it’s not illegal. Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer, among others, have come and said that they too, in fact, attempted this same practice. However, they didn’t find it to be that useful and decided to stop doing it.
The reality is, despite what some talking heads would have you believe, if the Patriots had taped the coaches from the taping room in the stadium, where they’re allowed to have a camera, none of this would have been talked about. The actual violation wasn’t, despite what many have stated, that they taped the coaches, but that they taped the coaches from a prohibited position on the field.
Here’s a great article on what can possible be gained by the video taping: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=green_jeremy&id=3051500
What Belichick did, is what every coach in the NFL tries to do. You read a rule, try to find a loophole, and exploit that loophole to your advantage. In this case, he had a question about the rule (the actual rule, not the memo) where it said to be used ‘during the game’, and figured he could interpret that as during the game being played, thereby making it fit within the rules (a stretch, obviously).
Look, he was caught, and I’m quite positive he knew he was stretching the rule to fit what he wanted. Roger Goodell handed out one of the harshest punishment in league history (1st rounder, which has never been done before; $500,000 to the head coach, which is the maximum fine that can be levied, and had never been done before).
The Patriots promptly turned over all tapes to the satisfaction of the Commissioners office and they agreed that what Belichick told them was on the tapes was, in fact, on the tapes.
Oh, and he did admit it, in a press conference about the whole thing. He refuses to continue to talk about it because he’s being paid to coach the team and win games, not to talk about past transgressions. By allowing it to continually be a distraction, that’s taking away from his focus which would undoubtedly take away from the teams focus.
My only problem with the whole media uproar about this is that Belichick is being painted as some despicable evil man and the rest of the NFL is somehow a bastion of righteousness. What a joke. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
JD:
(hope italics work)
Agent W – You said most watched and highest road attendance. I did not question the highest road attendance. But to ignore the effect of being on national TV constantly is naive.
Let me get this straight. You agree that the teams (Yankees and Red Sox) routinely have the highest road attendance in baseball, but think that the only reason their the most watched (on TV) is because they’re put on TV more? Talk about chicken or the egg.
The reason they’re put on TV more is precisely because they have the highest road attendance, which means they have more fans across the country, which means larger ratings for the TV stations that put them on.
Do you really think that a TV station is going to spurn ratings for some mythical east coast bias?
Yes. Exhibit A – The Cubs.
You can defend them for running up the score, but even if they took a knee, Dallas would have got the ball back down 14 and 90+ yards away from the end zone, with less than 10 seconds on the clock. As for the Miami game, BS. Comparing the Pats to the Titans, or the Dolphins to the Texans is laughable.
They were up 42-7 and still throwing the ball. That is the baseball equivalent of stealing second and third while up by 15.
Just because you believe that everyone else is cheating, or intentionally breaking the rules as you would describe it, does not make it any more acceptable. I would be willing to bet that Dungy and a host of others are not doing so.
As far as last night goes, I agree with Jeff. Better to get blown out and get it out of your system than to lose a heart-breaker.
The next time some lefty snarks about PW’ers being panty knotted about the musselmen, they should be required to read this thread. Geo/Theo/Political feelings not withstanding, passion for ones sports teams rule the day and the heart.
I would alter Agent W’s contention to read as follows; cross out passion and sub emotional.
East Coast fans, (and I’d include Pittsburgh and Cleveland but not Atlanta) seem to become more emotionally invested in their sports teams. Mid West fans are great (especially Cardinals and Cubs fans,) very positive and team supportive. The overly harsh reactions of East Coast fans when things go wrong reflect a depth of emotion tied to how they feel about their teams. Certainly other team’s fans are passionate in the positive sense but tend to be less bitter and depressed when their teams lose.
Let’s just say that the East Coast Fans are crazier and more emotionally and narcissistically invested while the mid west fans are more positively supportive in all circumstances and mellower, but no less giddy when their teams win.
I am prepared for the above to satisfy neither Agent W or JD.
JD:
You can defend them for running up the score, but even if they took a knee, Dallas would have got the ball back down 14 and 90+ yards away from the end zone, with less than 10 seconds on the clock.
So you call running the 5th string RB up the gut 4 straight plays running up the score? If they were running up the score, they would have had Brady throw a TD for his 6th of the day to set a record.
If the Cowboys had done their job, and stopped the Patriots 5th string RB from running straight up the center of the line, we wouldn’t be talking about running up the score. Yet, here we are, chastising the Patriots because the Cowboys couldn’t stop a simple dive play. Please.
As for the Miami game, BS. Comparing the Pats to the Titans, or the Dolphins to the Texans is laughable.
I didn’t compare them to anything. A few years back (2004, I believe), the Patriots were up quite a bit in the 4th quarter (I think by two scores). 3 minutes later, they lost. That was when they were 11-2, playing against the 2-11 Dolphins.
Remember the Bills/Oilers game from years back? At half time, the following statement was famously made, “The lights are on here at Rich Stadium, but you might as well turn them off, this one is overâ€Â.
Can someone tell me how that game turned out?
The point is, no one knows when a fluky comeback is going to occur. By their very nature, they are fluky and improbable. However, if you have the ability to put a team away and turn the improbable into the impossible, you do it.
You mentioned that you don’t know me from Adam and will assume that I’m arguing in good faith. I feel I’m not getting the same in return, as your arguments seem laced with disdain for East coast, and particularly Massachusetts based teams, which leave me little room to take your arguments as anything more than a bitter fan of a team the Patriots have waxed over the years.
Here’s the thing I love, though, from fans like yourself.* Looking back on their Super Bowls, these type of fans love to discredit those wins and knock the Dynasty because they weren’t blowouts. The fact that they only won by 3 was sufficient enough evidence that they couldn’t compete with the other dynasties who blew out their opponents. Now that they’re doing what other people said they couldn’t do, they’re all of a sudden classless and running up the score.
So, JD, can you tell me what an appropriate score to win by is? Somewhere between 3-21?
You do realize this is the NFL, right? Not college, not Pop Warner. These are grown men being paid millions of dollars to play a game. When the other team takes all their starters out and puts in their scrubs, thereby signaling they’ve stopped playing, then and only then will I get upset if the Patriots (or any other team playing any other opponent) keep their starters in and keep scoring.
Funny, but I never heard this righteous indignation when the Bears, Cowboys, or 49er’s were running up the score. It just goes to show you how irrational people act when they dislike a team.
JD:
They were up 42-7 and still throwing the ball. That is the baseball equivalent of stealing second and third while up by 15.
It was in the middle of the third quarter. You’ve got to be kidding me. The Dolphins sure hadn’t given up. That Pats had already pulled out a lot of their starters on defense and their first string RB.
More irrational hatred.
BJTexas:
I am prepared for the above to satisfy neither Agent W or JD.
Actually, I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Also, I never said that there aren’t exceptions to the rule. There are. The Cubs fans are passionate about their team, as are Cardinal fans. But those are exceptions. The entire state of California, as far as I’m concerned, could drop off the face of the sporting universe and they wouldn’t be missed all that much (with the exception of a couple teams; Lakers and Raiders are probably the two teams with passionate fan bases in California).
How little you know and how much you assume. I am a Colts fan and have a respect and admiration for the Patriots. We have a great rivalry with the Pats. They are a sensational organization.
I agree Dallas should have stopped them. Or Bellicheck could have taken a knee and shown some class. BTW, Brady already had 6 TD passes, great for my fantasy team, lousy for sportsmanship. When the best team in the NFL is playing the worst team in the NFL, a 42-7 lead in the middle of 3rd quarter is safe. Period. Even the Bills playoff game you referenced involved playoff teams. The Dolphins will need a GPS and a telescope to even see the playoffs.
BJ – More emotional, I would be willing to grant that. I go to many Colts road games, and some places are fun, and others practically dangerous. Monday night the J’ville fans were great, good sports all around. Baltimore in the playoffs, not so much. +e were physically hit, and we thought it was raining the whole game from all of the beer thrown at us. Pretty foul considering there was a 5 year old sitting right next to me. Pittsburgh and Cleveland were hostile but respectful. Dallas was pretty cool too. NE regular season, not so bad. Playoffs, not so much. In short, it is entirely possible to be sensational fans without being a jackass.
By the way, when they say that the Rockies pitching coach, Bob Apodaca, is going out to the mound to talk to the pitcher, am I the only one who starts thinking of Team America? “Dirka, Dirka, Dirka”
I thought of Senator Acaca D-Hawaii, but now I will think of Team America, and also that Marine singing that song (could not find the link).
“I detect a certain bitterness”
Pablo, your bitterness detector is working properly! I am a…ahem…Indians fan.
JD:
I agree Dallas should have stopped them. Or Bellicheck could have taken a knee and shown some class.
You don’t take a knee when doing so will turn the ball over to the other team… not up by only 2 scores. You run the ball up the middle. Belichick could have had his QB take a knee had Wade Phillips not taken the timeout with under 2 minutes left. Wade Phillips clearly believed the game was not over, why should Belichick think it is? You’re being irrational, JD.
BTW, Brady already had 6 TD passes, great for my fantasy team, lousy for sportsmanship.
No, he had 5 TD passes. He could have thrown 6, which would have been a Patriots record. He proceeded to throw 6 this week in Miami, but he only had 5 in Dallas.
I’m wondering though, were you saying the same thing when Steve Young threw 6 TD passes in Super Bowl XXIX? My guess is no.
When the best team in the NFL is playing the worst team in the NFL, a 42-7 lead in the middle of 3rd quarter is safe.
No, you perceive it to be safe. The Dolphins proceeded to roll off 21 points in the 4th quarter. I agree that a Dolphin comeback was unlikely, but it was not impossible. That’s the point, JD. Your letting your emotions dictate this argument, not reason.
You don’t think the Titans thought a 25 point lead was safe in the 4th quarter (which is a lot less time left than the 3rd)? They proceeded to give up 29 points in the 4th quarter. They were lucky to win the game. Before that happened, the Texans had something like 30 yards passing on the day, and like 60 yards of total offense. There was absolutely NOTHING that would make you think the Texans were capable of putting 29 points on the board… especially when you consider their starting QB, Matt Schaub, was out of the game, and their best receiver wasn’t in the game. The immortal Sage Rosenfels almost pulled off a comeback for the ages.
The point here is that, despite your perception, the improbable does sometimes happen. You don’t know when or how it will happen. Everyone just KNEW that the game was over between the Bills and Oilers. They were wrong.
The Dolphins will need a GPS and a telescope to even see the playoffs.
Yeah, and so did the 2-11 Dolphins team that came back in the 4th quarter, in a 3 minute time span, against the Pats, when the Pats were 11-2.
42-7 with 6 TD passes is the game I was referencing. Using the Houston game as a reference is not comparable, not even in the ballpark. The Pats are the best in the NFL. The Dolphins the worst, and playing without Ronnie Brown and a QB nobody knows.
As for the Dallas game, they score the TD with 18 seconds. They could have been good sports. They chose not to.
JD:
Using the Houston game as a reference is not comparable, not even in the ballpark.
It’s not a comparison. It’s a point that plenty of people speak of how they just ‘KNOW’ a lead is safe and the game is over. It’s just one of many examples where these people who think they know something, clearly do not.
As for the Dallas game, they score the TD with 18 seconds. They could have been good sports. They chose not to.
Oh, please, cry me a river. They did what any other NFL team would do. Just run the ball up the middle, with your 5th string RB, and not take a knee where doing so would give the ball back to your opponent.
You really have some issues if you think running a 5th string RB up the gut is running up the score and classless.
PS – I didn’t see you address your feelings on Steve Young throwing 6 TD passes in SB XXIX, the last of which came when they were up 42-18 in the 4th quarter. Heck, on their next drive, Steve Young even attempted to throw a deep ball (but it was incomplete). I guess they were running up the score and quickly received your scorn as well, right?
I mean, they were up 42-10 in the 3rd, and were throwing the ball all over the yard. Clearly they were out of line and were classless.
JD:
Also, one more thing in regard to the Miami game. Just like in baseball, I believe a hitter should get drilled if he showboats (Yes, when Manny Ramirez showboated on his HR against the Indians when the Sox were down 7-3, I would have been fine with the Indians pitchers drilling him in the ribs), I think there should be repercussions when players stupidly showboat when they’re getting their asses beat in football.
The last TD the Pats scored in that game, I think did have something to do with how the Dolphins were reacting. First, the stupid Joey Porter sack dance (kicking the dirt and acting like an idiot when they’re getting trounced). And then the high stepping showboat celebration by the usually classy Jason Taylor on the pick-six.
I do think that, the last TD (making it 49-28), was the equivalent of the beanball/brushback pitch in baseball for a player who stupidly showboats when he shouldn’t.
By the way, since you’re a Colts fan, I want your feeling on Peyton Manning’s last deep TD pass to Dallas Clark against the Jaguars. It was with 4 minutes left, against a team that had lost their starting QB (and the one they had in their was horrible) and one of their top running backs, and hadn’t shown any ability to move the ball all night. The Colts were up by 15 at the time. I hope you think that was running up the score as well. I mean, we know that lead was safe and they didn’t need to throw that deep pass. They could have just kept running the ball to run out the clock, right?
It is the Super Bowl. Not even close to comparable. It is the best team from each conference, not the best team in the league vs. the worst.
And no, not every team would have tried to score wirh 18 seconds to go.
Look, I understand that Bellicheck is a dick, but he is your dick. I get that. That does not mean you have to excuse away poor sportsmanship.
Which generally means less welcoming to outsiders. I’d be the first to admit that East Coast fans are bigger jackasses than most of the rest of the country. Cleveland and Pittsburgh tend to be on the fringe; emotional but not threatening. The most frightened I’ve ever been in my life at a sporting event is a tie: 1) Yankess Stadium center field, early eighties, wearing a Red Sox hat. I thought I was going to be stabbed to death. 2) Infamous Monday night game at Foxboro (’78?) in the old “largest high school field in the world,” Sullivan/Schaefer Stadium (the one they built for a big 14 million with aluminum bench seats and bathrooms that didn’t work right for 2 years.) It was a friggin’ riot and the town of Foxboro banned Monday night football for almost 20 years.
Philly fans are intensely emotional and highly critical (with a significant “jackass” value) but I just laugh when others call them the most negative, critical fans on the planet. I grew up in Mass and visit the family there often. I love to turn on WEEI, the sports talk station during baseball season. The Red Sox could be on a 15 game winning streak but if they should lose the night before, 50 fans will be calling to express their opinion that Frncona is a complete moron. Nega-Delphia? Puh-leese! These are my people but I know the score because, up until 1986, I was one of them in every way.
Now I try to float slightly above the jackassery.
And no, not every team would have tried to score wirh 18 seconds to go.
They didn’t try to score. They ran up the middle. If they were trying to score, they would have thrown a pass, which undoubtedly would have been the Patriots better odds of putting points on the board than running the 5th string RB up the middle.
Look, I understand that Bellicheck is a dick, but he is your dick. I get that. That does not mean you have to excuse away poor sportsmanship.
Has absolutely nothing to do with that. It has to do with not being naive and thinking we’re watching Pop Warner football. I’ve watched far too many games, including games with the Patriots (the 2-11 Dolphins vs. the 11-2 Pats) where they lost the game because they went into cruise mode when they should have been stepping on their throat.
Look, I understand you’re a Colts fan, and therefore predisposed to hate the Pats. That does not mean you have to call everything poor sportsmanship when it’s not. It just looks bitter.
Unbelievable stat from last nights game: The Red Sox had an .826 OBP with two outs.
It will be a success if Jimenez walks less than 4-5 batters and keeps the Sox under 6 runs tonight.
There were over 4 minutes to go, as compared to 18 seconds, on the road, a 2 score game, against a good team. That is not at all comparable. They had 9 guys in the box.
Look, we are wasting bandwith here. You are comparing apples to elephants. We are not going to change each others mind. You win. Bellicheck did not cheat. Dallas had a chance to go 90+ yards, recover an on sides kick, and score again in less than 18 seconds. Miami was on the verge of staging the biggest comeback ever without their starting QB, RBM and WR. Also, the BoSox are America’s favorite team, and their fans are superior to all others. Did I miss anything?
Hey, you guys done now? I feel like Ghandi planted btween Omert and Nasrallah.
Peacemaking; It’s what’s for dinner!
I do not hate the Pats. I like them. I admire them. I respect them. How many times do I have to say that?!
If you are not trying to score you take a knee. Simple.
BJ – I have never been more threatened that going into the stadium in Baltimore for the playoff game with my Bob Sanders jersey on. We were hit, had full unopened beer bottles thrown at us, shoved, etc … I was holding a 5 year old, and I would have gotten into a fight and been beaten senseless, but was afraid of what they might do to her because she was wearing a Manning jersey.
Sorry, Ghandi.
JD:
I do not hate the Pats. I like them. I admire them. I respect them.
Your words state otherwise.
How many times do I have to say that?!
I don’t know… how long does it take you to convince yourself you believe something when you don’t? Only you can answer that question.
If you are not trying to score you take a knee. Simple.
No, you don’t do that when you can’t run out the clock. You run the ball into the line, taking as much time off the clock as possible. If the other team can’t stop you from running a 5th string RB up the gut, that’s their problem, not yours. If they were ‘trying’ to score, they would have thrown, as it gave them a much higher probability of doing so than running a 5th string RB up the gut against a supposedly very good run defense.
There were over 4 minutes to go, as compared to 18 seconds, on the road, a 2 score game, against a good team. That is not at all comparable. They had 9 guys in the box.
Sarcasm… get a grip, JD. They clearly didn’t need to score and could have easily run out the clock. I don’t believe it’s running up the score because, quite frankly, it’s the NFL.
Look, we are wasting bandwith here. You are comparing apples to elephants.
No, I’m not. You keep attempting to make distinctions and exceptions so you don’t look like an irrational fan. The fact remains, the Patriots were playing a professional football team. They weren’t playing a college team. They weren’t playing a high school team. There are instances in the past where bad teams have come back from being down a lot on good teams. It’s not often, and it’s not likely. But it DOES happen. Just because you think, or in this case ‘knew’, something is safe, doesn’t mean that it is. The chances are overwhelmingly in your favor that it will be safe. I do not disagree with that. Yet, they are not impossible. That’s the point. A point that is lost on someone who has already made up his mind and who is trying to convince himself he respects the Pats while, at the same time, saying they lack sportsmanship.
Bellicheck did not cheat.
When did I say that? See, you’re being irrational again, JD. If you think the mere breaking of a rule constitutes cheating, then it’s cheating. You never answered my question in regard to the Broncos breaking the salary cap rules to keep John Elway and win the Super Bowl. Do you think that was cheating?
I said I have no problem calling it cheating. The juvenile ‘Bellicheat’ stuff, however, just shows a childish disdain for a coach and an organization that you supposedly admire and respect.
Dallas had a chance to go 90+ yards, recover an on sides kick, and score again in less than 18 seconds.
Chance, yes. Likely? No. Of course, the Pats weren’t trying to score. They were trying to run out the clock. It’s not their fault the Cowboys are so pitiful they can’t stop a 5th string RB from running up the gut. But yeah, that makes the Patriots classless.
Miami was on the verge of staging the biggest comeback ever without their starting QB, RBM and WR.
Funny, but so was Hou, but that’s “apples and elephants”. It’s only apples and elephants because it hurts your argument. Also funny that, without their starting QB, RB and WR, they put up 21 points in the 4th quarter alone.
Of course, I never said they were on the verge of coming back. I said that, while improbable, it wasn’t impossible. Therefore you continue to play until it is impossible. Heck, Brady was taken out to start the 4th quarter, and was only back in after it was back to a 3 score game with 10+ minutes left in the 4th. Once they bumped it back to 28, he was taken back out.
Also, the BoSox are America’s favorite team, and their fans are superior to all others.
You’ve just decided to leap right off the edge, huh? I think it’s hysterical that you call Red Sox fans obnoxious and rude, and here you are being more obnoxious than any Yankee fan I’ve come across. When did I say their fans are superior? Care to define superior for me? I also didn’t say they were America’s favorite team. I stated, quite clearly, that they have the highest road attendance of any team in baseball. That’s a fact.
You always know that rational thinking has flown out the window when people resort to ridiculous hyperbole.
You are right, though. We have wasted too much bandwidth on this. You keep telling yourself and others how much you respect the Pats, while simultaneously chastising them and calling them out for made up unsportsmanlike conduct… it’s quite impressive how you can talk out of both sides of your mouth like that.
Somehow the sox will find a way to make this stretch to 7. They always do. A pound of flesh is a pound of flesh.
Any word on whether Ortiz wil platoon at first base in Denver? Yuuk to 3rd, sit Lowell? Manny to center and Ellsberry to left??
Irresistable Force? Hi, nice to meet you. Let me introduce you to Immovable Object. No, wait, stop pushing and hey, don’t just stand there, what the …
CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???
Hurumph! Sports fans…
OTT,
I think the Sox are likely to start Ortiz at first, shift Youk to third, and bring Lowell off the bench, at least for game 1. With creaky knees, however, I don’t expect Ortiz to be there the whole game or necessarily for any of the subsequent games.
My words are simple plain fucking English. I like, admire, and respect the New England Patriots. They are an incredible orgnization. They have one of the best owners in sports. We have a great rivalry with them.
Bellicheck cheated. He was caught twice by the NFL and given one of, if not the biggest fines in the history of the NFL. Period. It was a sad moment for a proud and good organization. Whether or not Denver cheated a decade ago is utterly fucking irrelevant. I could care less. That does not change the fact that Bellicheck cheated, intentionally, after being caught doing the same thing last year, and getting away with it by being reprimanded by the league.
They have had 3 incidents in recent history that I have a problem with, and I pointed those out.
If you want to run up the score, be proud of it. Own it. But trying to justify it by comparing it a Texans vs. Titans game shows little brain wave activity. TN and TX are not good teams. Miami is the worst in the NFL. New England is the best.
If you are not trying to score, you take a knee.
Sorry, BJ.
Hurumph! Sports fans…
Yeah, but the debates are what make it so much fun to be a sports fan. :-)
If you couldn’t argue about it, it wouldn’t be nearly as much fun.
If I were a betting man I’d expect Youk in right field, Ortiz at first and Lowell in the lineup. It’s not ideal with Hawp and Helton but they’ll assume that the added offense will cover for potential difficiencies in RF.
Manny will play center field the same day I grow angel’s wings and and fly away, braying like a hound.
JD:
Wow… too funny. Calm down their, JD. Here’s my hand, grab it and I’ll pull you up. We may disagree, but I’d like to help you up from the edge. It’s not so much fun down there.
Cheers.
If I were a betting man I’d expect Youk in right field, Ortiz at first and Lowell in the lineup. It’s not ideal with Hawp and Helton but they’ll assume that the added offense will cover for potential difficiencies in RF.
I’d take that bet in a heartbeat. There’s absolutely no way Youkilis plays right field in Coors. That’s such a gigantic outfield that having Youkilis in right, and Manny in left, you’re guaranteeing a lot of balls dropping in the gap.
Hmmm, in fact, would you like to make that bet? :-)
Honestly, I think you see Ortiz at 1b for the first two games in Colorado. Youk and Lowell each play one of game 3 and game 4. Game 5, Ortiz takes a seat on the bench and both Youk and Lowell start at 1b and 3b, respectively.
I just don’t see any way that the Sox could put Youkilis in right field. I think the fact he’s never played RF before in the Majors is as good of a reason as any, but the added size of the outfield at Coors is just icing on the cake.
Agent W – I have intentionally tried to not call names, be condescending, etc … with none of that in return. I have not argued irrationally, or emotionally to any of this. I pointed out my position quite clearly, which you chose to misrepresent. I am not angry or upset, nor anywhere near an edge. I understand, they are your team. Your boys. Nobody likes their boys to be criticized. But, it does not make you any less of a fan to admit it when your boys do something wrong.
Sorry, again, BJ.
BTW, I hate the DH too.
JD:
Not letting it go, eh.
I have intentionally tried to not call names, be condescending, etc
That worked about as well as your arguments.
I pointed out my position quite clearly, which you chose to misrepresent.
I didn’t misrepresent anything. You’re the one resorting to hyperbole, not I.
Nobody likes their boys to be criticized. But, it does not make you any less of a fan to admit it when your boys do something wrong.
And I have, but you fail to recognize that. I said they were wrong in what they did with the video taping incident. They received a just punishment and, quite honestly, I would have been fine if they went further and also docked them another pick in a later round.
However, I don’t agree with irrational statements of running up the score by people who clearly don’t understand the game. Sorry, that doesn’t have anything to do with supporting ‘my boys’. It has to do with a rational belief in how a team should operate in the NFL and what they have to do to make sure they win a game, period. I don’t care if it’s the Patriots or the Colts, or any other team. To quote Herm Edwards, “You play to win the game.”
By the way, Jason Taylor had absolutely no problems with the Patriots doing what they did
“That’s what you should do,” said Taylor. “You shouldn’t be conservative and sit back just because you have a lead. They ran their offense, and they took Tommy out for a while and put him back in because of the interception. But that’s what the game is. If you don’t want people to run the score up then stop them. I have no problem with it.”
But you keep telling everyone they lack sportsmanship.
BTW, I hate the DH too.
You would.
I do not understand the game? Give me a fucking break. Feeling kind of pompous and arrogant today, are we? I guess my not feeling the need to run up the score, I do not understand the game in your world. So be it. I guess teaching a modicum of sportsmanship and humility was not something you wwere taught. Here in rube country, we usually are taught those things.
You stated that my admiration and respect for the Patriots organization was talking out of both sides of my mouth. It is apparently not possible to respect someone and critize them in your world.
Besides your self declared best sports cities with the most passionate fans, is there anything else more superior about the East Coast, or Boston in particular?
Jason Taylor is fine with it. He is a good man, and a good sport. Coach B could take a lesson from him.
I suppose being a baseball purist is wrong too?
Seafood
Jason Taylor is fine with it. He is a good man, and a good sport. Coach B could take a lesson from him.
Yeah, and he obviously disagrees with you. I wonder who’s argument holds more weight. A player who was faced with the other team scoring on him, or a fan yelling about sportsmanship?
I’ll go with Jason Taylor.
Thank you for proving my point about how irrational you are, though. I mean, to get to the point of swearing over a disagreement on sports, and over a message board… wow.
I do not understand the game? Give me a fucking break. Feeling kind of pompous and arrogant today, are we?
Well, if you do, you’re sure not showing it. If I grant that you know the game, then it’s apparent that despite your protestations to the contrary, you obviously have an axe to grind with Belichick and the Patriots which prevents you from looking at the situation dispassionately.
Look, I understand. The Colts and Patriots are rivals and it’s natural for you to act like that as a fan of the Colts. If Jason Taylor is fine with it, there’s no reason you should be getting yourself so worked up.
I bet the folks in Maine, Hawaii, and Alaska would argue that point, BJ.
Well, I played collegiate D-1 basketball, and both of my brothers played collegiate D-2 football, so I have some first hand experience from which to base my observations. Jason Taylor is right. The Dolphins should have played better. He is a good sport.
Sorry if the salty language offends you. It does not make me irrational though. We just disagree. There is a difference, you just choose to not acknowledge that.
I understand that it is more likely for me to pick this week’s Powerball numbers than it was for Dallas to take possession of the ball, go 90+ yards on one play for a TD, recover and on side kick, and then score another TD, all within less than 18 seconds, just to tie the game.
I suppose being a baseball purist is wrong too?
No, nothing wrong with that. But are you also arguing for going back to allowing a ball that bounces once over the fence to be a home run? I mean, since you’re such a ‘purist’ and all.
How about going back to players leaving their gloves on the field? You know, for the ‘purity of the game’.
My point? The “I’m a baseball purist” argument is complete and utter crap. You prefer the DH, that’s fine. It doesn’t, however, have anything to do with being a purist.
I love the DH and consider myself a purist as well. I just don’t like seeing a pitcher hit. I’d much rather see a good hitter than Randy Johnson make an automatic out in the game.
ALL WE ARE SAAAAAAAAA – YINGGGG IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAAAAAAAANCE
Alaska and Hawaii? Give me a break. Maine is part of Boston.
Until you have eaten freshly caught tuna sashimi, or Coho, Halibut, or Alaskan King Crab in Alaska … just sayin’.
I think that the Miami Heat should be allowed to let someone else shoot free throws for Shaq, because it isn’t any fun watching him miss free throws.
Agent W – We were just taught differently. It does not make either one of us right, or wrong. Essentially I was taught to beat the opponent into the ground. You were taught to beat the opponent into the ground, and then kick them just to make sure. You are prolly a great guy, and I wish your Pats the best of luck, starting after the game a week from Sunday at 4:15, where I will be cheering for my Colts (just not as passionately as you). And I will be looking forward to the Pats coming back to our house in the playoffs.
JD:
Sorry if the salty language offends you. It does not make me irrational though. We just disagree. There is a difference, you just choose to not acknowledge that.
I fully acknowledge we disagree. Except for the fact that I take exception to the fact that you suggest my argument is based solely on being a fan of the Pats, while you obviously think yours is arrived at through thoroughly dispassionate means. It’s not.
Well, I played collegiate D-1 basketball, and both of my brothers played collegiate D-2 football
And I played D-2 collegiate baseball for a top 30 team. Still doesn’t mean anything in regard to professional sports. Again, if we were talking about two colleges playing, I’d be right there with you. We’re not. We’re talking about professional athletes being paid millions of dollars to play the game and, even when teams look like their down and out, sometimes they do come back.
Essentially I was taught to beat the opponent into the ground. You were taught to beat the opponent into the ground, and then kick them just to make sure.
No, JD, we just have a different definition of when an opponent is fully beaten into the ground. By your definition, the Houston Texans, with their starting QB and WR out of the game — who had been unable to muster more than 60 yards of total offense by the 4th quarter — were beaten into the ground. Ooops, not so much. It’s easy for you to say now that it’s different, but I guarantee you that if you were watching the game you felt the lead was safe and the game was over. That the Texans were beaten into the ground. You would have been wrong.
What I really see is that you were taught to beat them into the ground, then give them that false sense of hope, by not trying, just to toy with them. I was taught to beat them into the ground and leave no room for hope.. not to rub it in, not to dance on their graves, but to play hard until the whistle sounds.
I never understood why, if the other team is leaving their starters in and still playing hard, my team (whether we’re talking about a game I was playing in, or a professional game) should have to stop playing just to be sure we don’t hurt the other teams feelings.
In baseball, sorta like being the tallest building in Wichita?
I kid, I kid! My potential D-1 baseball career was waylaid by torn ankle ligaments playing pick up basketball 2 days before spring training.
Well I suspect that If you two guys were having this argument in a sports bar over beers sirens, drunk tanks and bail hearings would be following. But, carry on! I’m entertained!
In baseball, sorta like being the tallest building in Wichita?
To some degree, yes, that’s true. We did play some D1 teams (Seton Hall, PC, UConn) and actually beat them. But, obviously, we’d have been destroyed by any of the ‘real’ D1 teams (ASU, for example).
My potential D-1 baseball career was waylaid by torn ankle ligaments playing pick up basketball 2 days before spring training.
Ouch.. sorry to hear that. I had a partial tear in my bicep tendon, but that’s about the worst injury I had (I was a pitcher).
Well I suspect that If you two guys were having this argument in a sports bar over beers sirens, drunk tanks and bail hearings would be following. But, carry on! I’m entertained!
Haha… nah. I don’t get violent when talking about sports. I’ll defend my point and won’t back down in my position, but there’s definitely no need for anything physical.
Personally, I prefer argument/debate to agreement. I hate when people always agree with someone. It’s much more fun to have someone who disagrees with you.
Typo, my brothers played D-1 football.
I do not particularly see how playing major D-1 basketball (got a Final Four ring) is that far removed from professional. Actually, after having watched many a pro team come out and not appear to give 100%, or even care at all, it was my experience that college players were more likely to play to the whistle and the final buzzer than the pros.
I pitched in high school. I once held the records for most batters hit by pitches in a game, season, and career. I suspect that I still hold them. I had nasty heat, and no consciense when I was younger. I threw at anyone that looked comfortable in the batters box.
I will agree to disagree with you, Agent W. Having been on the side taking the lumps, afterwards, we never felt that the opponent had run up the score, and our coach would not have dreamed to allow that thought to enter our mind. However, on the other hand, he would also never let us show off, get disorganized, or intentionally run up the score either. Thus, I managed to get in a few games as a walk-on.
Maybe next time the Colts are in New England, we could have this conversation over a bowl of chowder.
Well let me be quite clear; if I had made the D-1 team (back in the seventies and an Ivy League team to boot) it would have been as an end of the bench, good field, good speed, light hitting scrub infielder. For some reason my low eighties fastball was deemed inadequate for the rigors of D-1. (heh)
Hell, I wouldn’t have been a condo in Wichita.
I know, I’m just messing with you and my friend JD, who is fierce in his defense of his opinions but is a teddy bear. I’ve found it more fun to sit back and spectator good sports arguments than to actually participate.
Maybe next time the Colts are in New England, we could have this conversation over a bowl of chowder.
Pfft… Maine lobster and clam cakes. :-)
Hell, I wouldn’t have been a condo in Wichita.
Line of the day.
BJ – Now, if you want to see me irrational, and completely emotional, let’s talk about the Cubs. I will give you an example of how much I despise them.
I think it was the 2004 World Series when the BoSox met my Cardinals. At that point in time, the BoSox and the Cubs were always referenced as being the baseball teams with the most futility, curses, etc … I cheered for the BoSox to beat my favorite team, just so the Cubs would be all alone in their misery.
I am a bad person, and have not forgiven myself.
I pitched in high school. I once held the records for most batters hit by pitches in a game, season, and career. I suspect that I still hold them. I had nasty heat, and no consciense when I was younger. I threw at anyone that looked comfortable in the batters box.
As a pitcher, I don’t see anything wrong with that. So long as you’re not throwing at their heads. In my opinion, part of being a good pitcher is having an attitude. You have to be cocky and arrogant.
I was basically the same way. If a hitter looked comfortable at the plate, or took some good swings at some outside fastballs (diving over the plate), you bet your ass I was coming up under their hands and knocking them down, or throwing around their calves to make them move their feet.
I always had excellent control, so I very rarely hit people that I didn’t want to hit… but I still think knocking people off the plate is an integral part of being a good pitcher (as is the beanball, if done in a manner that doesn’t physically threaten the manner… i.e., in the ass or thigh… not up high).
My freshman year I was allowed to finish out the last inning of a game in which we were down my 6 runs. I proceeded to walk 6 batters and throw 3 wild pitches around 3 or 4 base hits. The crowning achievement was the last wild pitch. I covered home and had the guy dead to rights. He was about 5’5″ but he lowered his head and blasted me into next week. Ball, glove, jockstrap went flying in all directions a la Charlie Brown.
My most humiliating moment in sports.
OUCH!
I hit 3 consecutive batters, on purpose, to start a game once. I did not care for their clean-up hitter, and wanted a crack at him in a pressure situation. It was quicker than walking the 3 guys ahead of him. Their coach came out bitching after the first one, their team came out after the 2nd, and it was a brawl after the 3rd one. I was kicked out and never got a shot to get that guy out again.
Funny thing was that the only time I could locate a pitch was when I was throwing at someone. Trying to throw a strike. Good luck.
I guess my most humiliating moment was during one of the first few practices. There were a few former players in the NBA back, we were rotating teams in a scrimmage. I took a charge from a future NBA player, for like the 3rd time in my life, and Coach pulled me aside, and out of the game, and reminded me that was not the reason that I was there, and he could not risk having people like me hurt a future pro.
All the while, my nose is pouring blood, I broke a tooth, and my opponent made a dunk that would have posterized me had there been someone with a camera around.
I hit 3 consecutive batters, on purpose, to start a game once.
haha… I did the same thing, in the Regionals for legion. Three pitches, three hit batters. I only did it because I wanted them to think I was wild, as I was told they were a good hitting team.
I proceeded to strike out the next 2 and get the third guy to ground out.
My coach wasn’t too pleased when I told him after the game I did it on purpose… but we still won, so no problems there.
I can’t really think of one of my most embarrassing moments, other than when I was playing softball (after college… played in two softball leagues and two Boston baseball leagues). I was in an unlimited arc league (where they put this rubber strip as wide as the plate and about 3 feet long down on the ground… the pitcher can loft the ball no lower than 6 feet, but as high as they want. If it hits the rubber mat, it’s a strike.
There were some guys in the league who could literally consistently throw pitches with 15-20 foot arcs. Extremely tough to hit with a baseball swing.
Well, I’m a very fast runner, so I figured I’d just swing down on the ball, chop it to the infield and beat it out. I just barely caught the back of the ball, just popping it up a foot or two right in the baseline and as I ran out of the box, I ran right into the ball with my forehead.
Had a nice egg on my forehead for about a week. To top it off, I was called out for being out of the batters box when the ball hit me.
BWAA HAHA that’s great stuff. I never had to worry about trying to hit guys. My cross seam fastball had a lot of movement and I had very little clue where it was headed. The curveball was just for show.
JD: I played pickup basketball and was covered by the starting point guard on my D-1 college team. He was 6’1″ with a 42″ verticle leap. I passed the ball a lot, totally intimidated but once I decided to run him off of a screen and shoot a 20′ jump shot.
He jumped from behind the screen and swatted the ball away. He then proceeded to beat me like a rented mule for the next 15 minutes. I almost cried.
In a playoff game, I broke a kid’s hand with an inside pitch (I threw sidearm, and would bury the ball in on the hands of righties).
Did the same thing at Billy Hunter’s baseball camp.
Both pitches were strikes, I’m pretty sure.
Made the big sweeping curve work that much better. At Hunter’s camp, in fact, they would make me throw five or six strikes to right handed hitters sometimes, just to keep them up at the plate. Because honestly, that sidearm curve broke about 2 1/2 feet, and nobody at 14 or 15 was gonna hit it, particularly when they were afraid that if they dove in, I’d pin the knob of the bat to their palm by putting a fast ball on the top of their lead hand.
Literally my only skills as a pitcher were – 1) the ability to throw really hard, 2) complete wildness, and 3) complete control when throwing at someone. In high school, that was more than enough to get by. The reputation for hitting people did not hurt. Brushback? Piffle. Texas leaguer? Next guy was getting hit. Bunt? Plunk ’em.
BJ – From behind the screen? Sweet! I just kept backing up ’til they backed off. Since outside shooting was my only skill, I would jack it up from deeeep.
I would have thrown at Holliday tonight. I might have thrown at him in the on deck circle.
Jeff (or any other Rockies fan):
Is Spilborghs always that whiny on every single called strike? I mean, I thought Ortiz was bad with the complaining about strikes, but Spilborghs might be the worst I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single pitch that he took last night, that was called for a strike, that he didn’t complain about.
As a Red Sox fan, I can’t stand how much Ortiz argues about balls and strikes (it’s one reason why I love Manny… he almost never argues, even if it’s clearly not a strike)… I was just amazed at how bad Spilborghs was. I mean, who the fuck does he think he is? Ricky Henderson?*
By the way, can someone tell Fox that we’re in a new century. Boyz II Men doing God Bless America? Are you serious? Apparently, Tony! Toni! Toné! wasn’t available.
JD… I would have thrown at Taveras when he came up the second time. The ball that hit him in the first was right over the plate (it wasn’t inside at all) and because he dove out over the plate, he got hit. Next time up, I would have drilled him just because.
Doh… forgot to go further with the Ricky Henderson comment.
I was reading a story on Henderson and there was one anecdote by a catcher who was playing against Ricky. Well, we all know how Ricky Henderson loves to talk about himself in the third person: “Ricky Henderson is the greatest of all-time” he would say.
Well, the catcher was saying that there was one time when Ricky was batting and struck out on a called strike three that was a borderline pitch. Ricky turned to the umpire and deadpanned, “That’s not a strike to Ricky Henderson” and walked back to the dugout. The catcher said he had to call time and go out to the mound to give himself a moment to recover from laughing so hard. Just hysterical.
I really like the BoSox 2nd baseman. He is a player.
JD #158;
Trust me when I tell you; if that kid decided to cover me, backing up to Lancaster wouldn’t have helped me. He was not just out of my league, he was out of my universe.
I totally agree with comment #14. I have been a sports fan for 30+ years and the damn BOSTON fans are the worst, most obnoxious sport fans IN HISTORY. Especially those DAMN DEAD SOX, which still would have no titles today if the choking YANKEES wouldn’t have pulled off the greatest CHOKE in history! I would pay money to still be able to say “1918” again. I live in Southern California near Anaheim stadium, and it absolutely SICKENS ME to see half the stadium filled with these LOSERS! With spygate going on with the HATRIOTS since early last season, whose to say how many other ways and for how long they did it. Of course their apologists like to say “everyone does it”. Well really, how come nobody has been caught and penalized in this matter in the HISTORY OF THE GAME(I still think that the NFL went too easy on them, but that is another story for another day. And now to their basketball team which hasn’t been relevant for more than 20 years. Heck, I went to the old Boston Garden in March of 1988 and saw their dynasty crumble before my eyes in losing a 67-37 lead and gave it all back losing to Barkley’s Philadelphia 76ers 97-94. They later lost to Detroit in the East Finals and have never made it to the Finals until this year. Last year they were CHEERING for Kobe Bryant of the hated Lakers. Just like Mike Bibby said they are bandwagon jumpers. They are no better than the bandwagon Laker fans-I still think my Lakers will take down the SMELTICS in the finals. As the comment on 14 said “they can have their SMELTICS, HATROITS, DEAD SOX and BRUINS-as well as John Kerry(CFR and SKULL and BONES), “Lifeguard of Chappeqquatic” and communist Ted Kennedy. I must admit the California polticians are a piece of crap too.
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