Regarding the coverage of supposed atrocities from anonymous sources versus Michael Yon. I don’t think Bob will be upset if I reproduce his response letter in full:
Mr. Colford,
Let’s be blunt about what you mean when you claim, “Iraqi police officers often will speak to reporters only if they are guaranteed anonymity, for security reasons.”The fact of the matter is that because so many Iraqi police officers were leaking false information to the mediaâ€â€the Associated Press being the single greatest offenderâ€â€the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior earlier this year slapped a gag order upon all active duty Iraqi police officers not formally designated as press contacts in an attempt to cut down on inaccurate information and purposefully planted propaganda.
AP’s most infamous police source, Jamil XX-XXXXXXX [named redacted for blog publication], known to the world by the pseudonym Jamil Hussein, was one of many police officers told point-blank not to provide stories to the press. XX-XXXXXXX was cited in particular as an example of a particularly bad source, as 38 of 40 stories sourced to him by the Associated Press could not be verified by any other news agency or government source as having actually occurred, and the vast majority of those stories coming form outside of his precinct, where he would have no direct knowledge at all.
When you state that you keep their names hidden for security reasons, you mean nothing more or less than that you are trying to keep their named hidden so that they will not be arrested and thrown in jail for violating their orders and Iraqi law.
You claim that these two anonymous police sources have been reliable in the past.
Sir, I hope that the Associated Press is a little more worldly than to fall for one of the oldest propaganda/intelligence tricks in the books. Dime-store spy novels are full of stories of spies and secret agents that pass along little truths to establish trust, in order to deliver disinformation once they are trusted. Apparently, the Associated Press has not learned that lesson.
In this instance, your two distant sources were quite wrong, as was your source who told you that the decapitated bodies have been recovered.
Further, I’d like for you to provide me the name of the U.S. military source who you claim said bodies were found on the banks of the Tigris, so that I can ask him myself precisely what information he relayed.
Interestingly enough, you seem to be claiming that you need to have some sort of press release from the U.S. military to run with Yon’s story.
What an interesting double standard the Associated Press has incorporated.
You’ll run a false sectarian massacre based upon hearsay evidence from anonymous police officers that are violating their own orders, as absolute, unequivocal fact, without any official comment or support whatsoever,
-BUT-
When you are offeredâ€â€free of chargeâ€â€a story citing named U.S. and Iraq officers and named U.S. and Iraqi units, taking party in the discovery and recovery of bodies from an al Qaeda massacre by perhaps the most well-regarded and highly respected combat correspondent of the entire war, with copious photo evidence, you suddenly need an official military press release before even considering it?
Perhaps I’m not a professional journalist, but I do know that if a journalist hears something interesting–say, an account of a massacre just a little more than three miles way–than he shouldn’t wait on a press release before springing into action. He should immediately start asking questions. If he’s going to merely rely on press releases, he isn’t a journalist, he’s a transcriptionist.
Your reporter Sinan Salaheddin was merely a transcriptionist for a pair of anonymous sources that the U.S. military seems to regard as insurgent propagandists. I would like your assurances that these sources will never be used again, and that Salaheddin, who has used disreputable sources such as XX-XXXXXXX in the past, will have his work more thoroughly vetted before publication, and that AP’s Baghdad editor, Kim Gamel, who has also been know to publish stories from questionable sources, be more thoroughly supervised as well. Quite franky, I think their continued pattern of behavior in publishing poorly-sourced and ultimately false stories should warrant their termination, but I am not in the position to make that call.
I do know, Mr. Colford, that AP Special Correspondent Robert H. Reid is presently no more than a few miles for the site of the massacre that Yon reported.
Perhaps Reid will be viewed with more credibility than Yon and his multiple eyewitnesses and photographs, and perhaps as much as the insurgent propagandists with whom the Associated Press continues to place so much trust.
Good stuff. And while we’re on the subject, I’d like to promote the suggestion of one of our commenters (please forward your name) that we agitate to have Michael Yon considered for a Pulitzer.
Dan, Jeff, could I get your email addies?
Thanks in advance.
Dotiros
Mine’s croolwurld-at-earthlink.net
“… that we agitate to have Michael Yon considered for a Pulitzer.”
That’s a hoot.
The Pulitzer Board is made up of the most left-wing nuts on the planet – including Kathleen Carroll, Executive Editor and Senior Vice President of the Associated Press.
What needs to happen is for a conservative rich person to step up and fund a LARGER journalism prize, so that the influence of the Pulitzer Board can be negated.
That would be great, usedtobeap, but it would be educational for them, I think, to find out that perhaps the public feels they have an interest in such matters, and a degree of independent judgment.
Dan,
I take your point … but come on. Do you really think these folks don’t know what they’re doing? Do you think they care whether you or I agree with what they’re doing? The AP is busy producing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these stories. It’s wholesale propoganda on a massive scale. That doesn’t happen by accident or mistake.
They know you and I can see through it. They don’t care.
Average Joe Schmo down in Louiville, Ky is the audience they are influencing, and average Joe Schmo doesn’t understand institutional bias. He couldn’t fathom any American actively working AGAINST the country’s best interests. It just doesn’t occur to the average American that some of us WANT us to lose.
Nominating someone like Michaal Yon for a Pulitzer Prize wouldn’t for one moment cause the Pulitzer Board anything but a hearty laugh. It’s board is made up of the very people who won’t publish Michael Yon’s dispatches and will surely never hire him once the war is over unless he starts producing the product they desire – horrible news that makes it appear that America lost.
Look folks … conservatives, if they want to effect change, need to put their money up … the way the liberals have. Is this a war, or isn’t it?
I think my comment got stuck somewheres. It had many links, which was hard work and I had to make coffee to get it done. Can someone check maybe?
What fiction category would you want Yon to apply in? The idea that Sunni Iraqis think of the Americans as an Iraqi tribe should certainly be considered. Note that he didn’t have any quotes with that one.
Ah… first Chips then the “Conservatives are a cancer” Prof appears.
Please, dear Prof, regale us with your intimate knowledge of what Iraqi’s are saying… obviously sitting in the Woman’s Study Dept of a Kentucky college you are head and shoulders above a man who has boots on the ground in Iraq.
Why do you come across as such a bitter guy, Ric? Well, I’m sure that you’re supplying more relevant information than that Yon guy.
Ric Caric didn’t provide the link, because if he did, it would be obvious that Yon was giving his own characterization, based on his experiience there and in Mosul — places where I’m sure Mr. Caric as spent more time than Mr. Yon. That CBS, the New York Times and Time also reported on the locals’ attitude regarding the US troops probably will have no effect on his outlook, either.
Well maybe it’s true for the Sunni Iraqis in Kentucky. I can see that.
Which category should Yon be in?
And note that he stated so, directly and unequivocally, thus separating that which is his personal opinion from that which is factual reporting. Not that you’d be able to discern what that means to the reader.
Oh, and why would we want to sully Yon’s reputation with a Pulitzer? If we’re going to go for a craptastic award, let’s get him the Nobel Peace Prize.
I think Yon could be nominated for “a distinguished example of reporting on international affairs, in print or in print and online.” The guidelines are here (PDF). Maybe feature writing also?
I think shine might be getting at this:
Hmm. Is one of you guys a lawyer, by any chance?
We have class action suits and the RICO law. What would the chances be of a class-action suit against the AP, charging them with lying through their teeth to influence political affairs? The “class” in such a suit being all interested Americans, whose decisions regarding the Iraq war are based on information from AP and allied organizations. Clearly, if the information so provided is deliberately wrong the decisions made will be wrong, and the class will suffer — not financially, but that’s what punitive and exemplary damages are for.
I suppose it would revolve around what the AP hoped to gain by its actions. But would such a suit even get far enough to allow discovery?
Regards,
Ric
“The idea that Sunni Iraqis think of the Americans as an Iraqi tribe should certainly be considered.”
What Yon said:
“For many Iraqis, we have morphed from being invaders to occupiers to members of a tribe. I call it the “al Ameriki tribe,†or “tribe America.â€Â
See the problem, doc? Yon said nothing about us being an Iraqi tribe, he specifically said tribe America. Why would you misrepresent his opinion so? Seems you are the one writing fiction here, that seems to be a trait. Did I misunderstand the Morehead website? Are you actually a Professor of Speculative History, perhaps? That would explain a great deal.
I don’t know why I am bothering to ask, so far the good professor seems completely unable to even attempt a defense of any of his positions. Kind of a weenie that way.
Ric – if that were feasible Fox News would be in court already.
Because the good professor is full of hateful, leftist shit.
Happyfeet,
Yeah, I know — the good Professor and his buddies would have seen to it. But they have a defense in that there is no conspiracy involved. Note that I don’t think that they could (or, probably, should) be sued for lying per se. But conspiring to lie is a different kettle of fish entirely.
That’s practically the definition of a “conspiracy”. If it could be established in Court, some AP personnel would be in a world of hurt.
Regards,
Ric
My question would be more along the lines of why an outfit like UPI wouldn’t use the growing perception of the AP’s propagandizing to its competitive advantage. My feeling, not knowing a whole lot, is that AP is untouchable because of the local wires it maintains – covering and disseminating news from within a state or region. That’s what makes them irreplaceable and why Reuters and UPI are mostly supplemental, and not alternatives. If you’re serious about this idea I’d look more to antitrust law.
No, usedtobeap, not at all. They’re playing to their own misguided, dwindling crowd. Joe Schmo from anystate USA, saw through their crapola years ago — as witnessed by their bleeding subscription/viewer numbers.
People are less likely now, than at any time in our history, to be wont to wade through the propaganda served up by those that claim to be keepers of the truth. It’s ever more obvious to ever more people that their “truth” is theirs and theirs alone.
I dunno. The CIA is still perceived as a prestigious place to work. This sort of thing that Confederate Yankee has, as damning as it is, is probably kind of on par with “I found a finger in my Big Mac” insofar as it affects the corporation. I would love to be wrong here.
Infidels, if I knew that yor media would actually make even a half hearted attmept to cover its own obfuscations and out right flasehoods I would be very concerned for my movement. But I know that tomorrow I will peruse the Wall Street Journal and all the rest without fear…while I am watching a FOX morning show. Do you ever ask yourselves why this is so. Do you ever ask any journalists why this is so?
“Good stuff. And while we’re on the subject, I’d like to promote the suggestion of one of our commenters (please forward your name) that we agitate to have Michael Yon considered for a Pulitzer.”
Yeah, I firstly agitated dat-dare. Um, I also sort’a fibbed. I said if I “knew how” I would nominate Yon-dare for a Pulitzer. Thing is, long time ya-go, I heard (heard!) it’s like not so hard to enter a piece into the Pulitzer review process. If my memory serves the laughter starts when you show everyone your very own hackish Pulitzer entry, that you entered yourself! A dude told me he did it every year just for laughs.
Score!
http://www.pulitzer.org/EntryForms/planofaward.pdf – requirements
http://www.pulitzer.org/EntryForms/jenform.pdf – entry form
Man, that dude didn’t lie. It’s easier than picking your nose to enter into the Pulitzer fray.
If you want I can ask the dude who told me he was going to enter his own piece into the Pulitzer. Might be interesting to see what happens if Yon was entered.
Could it be that they all, on both sides of the divide, place company brand and their own incomes above all of those principals they constantly natter about? Is such a thing possible?
Are they all simply advertising guys with delusions of granduer. Travelling salesmen with nicer clothes?
Is watching your evening news rather like watching Tinmen on HBO, except less entertaining?
Here we go. This is the whole quote.
“For many Iraqis, we have morphed from being invaders to occupiers to members of a tribe. I call it the “al Ameriki tribe,†or “tribe America.â€Â
Yon says that “For many Iraqis, we have morphed from being invaders to occupiers to members of a tribe.” Like I said, there’s no quote there. Of course, Yon also doesn’t say “how many” Iraqis think of the U. S. military as members of a tribe, or “where,” or give any attention to those naggy little details that can be fact-checked either. No surprise there. He also doesn’t say how many of those Iraqis are Sadr supporters, members of the Badr Brigades, police and army infiltrators, or members of Sunni insurgent groups that have been at war with the U. S. for three or four years. Hell, there may be some jihadis in the mix too.
“Smiling faces, Smiling faces/Somet-i-imes, they don’t tell the truth.”
Ultimately, Yon’s “members of a tribe” notion is the same as David Broder saying that “Americans think” this or that because he feels it in his “gut.”
Then there’s the fluorish of Yon calling the army the “al Ameriki tribe.” Now, I’m certainly glad that the Sunni militias have left al-Qaeda and are identifying the U. S. cause with their own. Great, there’s nothing worse than fighting a three-front war (Sunni militias, jihadis, and Shiite militias) with an inadequate number of troops anyway. What a drag!
But what Yon is doing is his standard shtick–creating a wholly fictional sense of kinship ties between American troops and the Sunni population and then romanticizing the hell out of it. He might as well put an Italian male model–is Fabio his name–on the cover of his book whenever he writes it.
I realize that you guys and probably others on the right are trying once again to make Michael Yon an authority on the war. But if you listened to Pete Domenici and Richard Lugar over the past few days, you have to realize that you’re not convincing the Republicans let alone anyone else. Much of the reason why is that Yon himself is not convincing and never has been.
And is your gravest and silliest mistake giving them more respect and influence that you give the man who runs the used car lot down at the corner next to the pool hall?
And do you realize that people like the wonderful, sexy and lovely Ric love certain journalists strictly because they tell him what he must hear to allow him to live with himself. Otherwise he would look at the misery he and his would inflcit on the rest of the world, all the while telling himself he is the most moral and courageous of men, and go quite insane.
In rather the same way Phillip Morris has made millions hooking people nicotine the press has hooked people like the exmplary Ric on the notion that forcing the rest of the world to live in totalitarian squalor under the control of religous psychopaths is a good and moral thing. See, it is all brand identification.
Professor Ric, I think you mean we are not convincing the staffs of a couple codgers who have more expertise with respect to nifty bladder control techniques than with respect to national security. In the balcony at the Muppet Show, these two.
You see, the solution isn’t to nominate a serious infidel like Yon for a Pulitizer. It is instead to make certain the Pulitzers get all the respect they deserve. Tell you what maybe I can arrange to have Abby Hoffman sent back for a day. He can get Porky Pig nominated for the Pulitzer. That will do you more good than nominating Yon.
Y’know, Professor, it occurs to me that you guys may have just shot yourself in the foot here.
The main thing that has stymied us in Iraq, from the very beginning, is the Mooreonic Convergence — the “imperialism!” cry from the entire Left. It isn’t true, and wasn’t ever true at any point; furthermore, since it hasn’t been true for half a century — we capitalists have much better and more efficient ways of squeezing excess value out of primitives nowadays, which you and your cohorts have never noticed because they don’t match the Word of the Prophet Karl — the very accusation makes your claim of “progressive” hollow. You’re just saying it because you don’t know what the Hell is going on and the United States is involved, just as the Stalinist propagandists who formulated your schtick intended. But there’s no doubt that it’s been an excellent basis for inspiring people to murder children and shopkeepers in an attempt to get at American soldiers.
Now, though, you’re on the verge of success, or so you think — your clients are going to get free range to rape, murder, and pillage because Heroic Harry and Nonpareil Nancy are going to bring the troops home. Happy dance time, right? — but now you’ve convinced the average Iraqi that the Americans are going to leave, which is what we said from the beginning but got drowned out by the chorus. Even the al-Qa’idists say so.
And if the Americans are going to leave, well, your buddies aren’t the nicest people in the world, you know. Torturers, murderers, rapists, and extortionists, not to mention the oppressive godbothering. So an Iraqi might well look at all those troops, armored, locked, and loaded, and think, “Hmm. They’re leaving, but they’re here now. Maybe they could help us with a little housecleaning before they go, if we ask nicely.”
Which is what we wanted in the first place. We said so from the beginning.
I love it when a plan comes together.
Regards,
Ric (the original one)
And if the Prof listened to something other than the little voices in his head, he would know that: (a) Lugar has been an Iraq skeptic from the outset (in 2002, he and Joe Biden wanted to disarm, but not depose, Saddam); (b) Domenici is up for re-election in ’08 and would like the issue off the table as much as Hillary would; and (c) floating the notion that Yon is some cheerleader on the war reveals just how little the Prof knows, given that Yon was calling it a “civil war” in 2005 and even reprinting a pessimistic piece from Joe Galloway right before the 2006 election, to name but two examples.
As for Yon not being convincing, let the Prof get Yon’s work in front of as many eyeballs as the AP gets to publish hearsay from anonymous sources and we’ll have a scientific test.
I’ve read the whole comment thread (lighten up Ric).
I think Michael Yon stands a decent chance of winning the Pulitzer, even though he’s on our side.
Oh, let’s see: An ancient culture with thousands of years of tribal structure thinks of another group in tribal terms. Simply ridiculous, eh, Professor? What. A. Maroon.
And apparently you missed this:
Just for you, I’ll give Yon an assist on that one…not that he needs it. American Sheik
And you teach “political thought” and “racial thinking”? That’s like stealing for a living. Next thing you know, you’ll be teaching “feminist thought”. Oh, wait.
Organic bean farming, Ric. Might be something you ought to think about.
“But what Yon is doing is his standard shtick–creating a wholly fictional sense of kinship ties between American troops and the Sunni population and then romanticizing the hell out of it.”
Do you have any evidence of this, or do you just a “feel it in your gut”?
It seems to me the military hierarchy, discipline and code of honor might resonant with the Arab culture. While not the same in the details, it would seem similar enough to be recognizable. One of the more valid criticisms of a reconstruction was that the Arabs had no sense of nationalism, they were too tribal oriented for a multicultural democratic nation to be functional. If this is the case, might an organization of a more tribal nature such as the military possibly serve as a positive example to a restructuring Iraq? It seems to me someone with a creative, imaginative mind who truly cared about the people of Iraq might see this as potentially a landmark moment of diplomacy, a way to bring these people into a more peaceful relationship with the western world while still being sensitive to their culture. Unfortunately, you have shown little imagination in your postings here, although some of your historical interpretations have been wonderfully creative.
So. Perfesser. If it had come from the NYT it would be gospel. Right? A thought just occurred to me. You’re one of those people who think Sept. 11 was a government plot.
“Are you actually a Professor of Speculative History, perhaps?”
There is a Harry Turtledove Chair of Speculative History? Cool!
“If this is the case, might an organization of a more tribal nature such as the military possibly serve as a positive example to a restructuring Iraq?”
Whats so tribal about our military? It is civilian run by elected leaders from outside of the tribe (except they sometimes dress up). But maybe the Iraqis don’t see that part of it.
Sheen,
Maybe they don’t, and maybe they do. It’s a fair certainty that it isn’t relevant to their day-to-day workings with the U.S. troops so it probably doesn’t matter to them in any event.
It’s interesting to me how the Left focuses on differences that make no difference. Kind of like how “good” diversity is only skin deep.
There ought to be a prestigious Murray Kempton award for the likes of Yon and others. Whenever a writer comes along and makes the wobblies in the establishment flummox and howl “what the hell is it! Not so sure I like this! Something about it! Where’d it come from! Just who does he think he is!”
You may retort Kempton, in fact, did win a Pulitzer. Twas 30-years after his due and with such reluctance that the Pulitzer committee probably felt the weight of historical judgment queening down on their messy faces, in fact if poor Murray had’a croaked without clutching a Pulitzer his death’d risked being seen as a reverent act of monumental defiance, and that in itself could have shaken the pillars of the whole cheap Pulitzer charade.
Beware of fearless men who ride their bikes in downtown traffic.
Bring on the brand new Renaissance. I think I’m ready.
“But maybe the Iraqis don’t see that part of it.”
That would seem a reasonable assumption to me, that the average Iraqi has a much better view of the command structure within the military over there than he would have of the political structure over here driving it all. If you have some insight that would suggest otherwise, that is what these posts are for.
The infidel thor, he understands. The idea that the press is anything beyond circus-act, carnival-show, confidence-game needs to be ended. People like this infidel Yon they are not members of the press, as the press’s behaviour makes so abundantly clear.
Two things are going on here, both of which make Yon’s observation at least somewhat credible from first principles.
First: People interpret things according to the cultural milieu in which they live. The effect is prominent in the case of Prof. Caric — he and his fellows interpret everything that happens according to the standards of leftoid college professors, and have an endless series of rationalizations when that expectation isn’t met — but it’s true of you, me, and the Queen of Sheba. Iraqis live under a particularly strong tribal system, because they’ve had a series of ratbag tyrants and naturally turned to the only organizational structure available to them to provide a bit of protection, so they could be expected to interpret what they see in tribal terms.
Second, the military is “tribal”. Its structure and organization is an elaborated and formalized version of the absolutely classic tribe, complete with the distinction between war leader and administration (“line” vs. “staff”) and a special place for shamans and advisors (techs vs. “grunts”), elaborate rituals for induction and adoption, and rituals and customs that are shared by the tribe and have some commonality with those of the rest of the clan (battalion) sept (Army vs. Navy, e.g.) and nation (“the US military”). That’s because that’s the organizational form that works when things need to get done under pressure.
Regards,
Ric
Thank you, Mr. Locke. That is exactly what I was trying to say only in a much more precise manner, as per usual.
What fiction category would you want Yon to apply in? The idea that Sunni Iraqis think of the Americans as an Iraqi tribe should certainly be considered. Note that he didn’t have any quotes with that one.
What the fuck would you know about anything in-country? You aren’t fit to wipe Yons ass.
Shut your piehole and get back to deconstructing nursery rhymes to find the hidden oppression of the downtrodden. Over-educated jackass. Be sure to fuck off too.
What the fuck would you know about anything in-country? You aren’t fit to wipe Yons ass. -me
and just to expand on that observation, Professor Knownothing, what are the three pillars of civil Government in Iraqi Culture?
I bet you can’t name them without doing a google, but the average High School graduate Marine Private who’s served one 6 month tour could.
Just wanted to point out the fact that Mike was nominated for a Pulitzer in 2005, and TIME magazine readers voted his photo of Major Mark Bieger cradling a wounded Iraqi child by the name of Farah after she was mortally wounded in a firefight as Photo of the Year in 2005 as well.
Thanks, CY. I imagine I knew that, once.
Oh, and why would we want to sully Yon’s reputation with a Pulitzer? If we’re going to go for a craptastic award, let’s get him the Nobel Peace Prize.
If it’s good enoughfor Rush, it should be good enough for you all. Eat it,or not:)
What kind of name is Yon?
I think is British.
The lived on the other side of England from the Hithers. That’s what I heard, anyway.