As a follow up to my last post — and I don’t believe this to be Colorado-centric, but rather merely illustrative of what may be tried in other parts of the country — comes the story of renters being informed that, in order to maintain their 2nd Amendment protections, they must disarm or else lose their homes.
This is the next step in the campaign to disarm us. One can see Democrat-run localities giving out licensing preferences to those landlords that decide to ban gun ownership from their premises, in yet another back-door ploy to circumvent the natural right to self defense.
From a libertarian perspective, I have always supported the idea that owners of property have a right to determine who they rent to, provided they aren’t making that determination in violation of some constitutional protection or civil rights violation.
Here, what we have is clearly a constitutional violation — which is all well and good, but is also moot unless a judge in a lawsuit were to issue a stay and allow residents to stay armed and in their homes as the case made its way through the courts.
I can’t imagine that any federal judge would find this constitutional, but then again, I couldn’t imagine John Roberts would be able to make a penalty and a tax out of the same provision, depending upon which way it would be deployed in order to uphold a law he was too cowardly to strike down on clear constitutional grounds. So what do I know?
Retired Marine Art Dorsch says his Second Amendment rights are in danger.
His apartment complex, the Oakwood Apartments in Castle Rock, sent out a notice telling all residents to get rid of their guns.
The 77-year-old retired US Marine Corps veteran sent a newstip to 9Wants to Know saying he’s afraid he’ll be homeless if he doesn’t comply.
The letter went out to residents on August 1 and says they have until October 1 to comply with updated “community policies.”
On page 2 is a brand new provision saying “firearms and weapons are prohibited.”
“It upsets me very much,” Dorsch said.
As of October 1, residents cannot display, use, or possess any firearms or weapons of any kind, anywhere on the property.
“I’m a hunter. I’m a licensed conceal and carry person,” Dorsch said.
Dorsch says the guns, which he keeps securely locked in a safe, make him feel secure in his home.
“They want to take them all away from me. They say I can’t live here,” he said.
Dorsh says apartment managers told him to give up the guns and stay, give notice and move out voluntarily, or be forced to move out if he doesn’t comply with the new policy.
Nobody answered the door at the apartment office on Tuesday afternoon.
When reached by phone, Brooke Young, Ross Management Group regional manager, said “It’s our policy not to comment to the news media,” before hanging up.
“The best thing this tenant can do is either move out or get rid of the guns,” 9NEWS legal analyst Scott Robinson said.
Robinson says, in most cases, courts have supported the rights of landlords to impose “reasonable regulations” on tenants.
Yes. Because when isn’t a clear attempt to void you of a natural right explicitly removed from governmental infringement considered “reasonable” as a “regulation”?
I wonder: would legal analyst Scott Robinson be willing either to move from his home or give up his plush gig as a TV lawyer should his covenant determine that removing all legal analysts from a neighborhood is a “reasonable restriction”? And how, exactly, is this any more “reasonable” than an apartment complex commanding tenants not ever to use the word “citizen” or refer to a sack lunch as a “brown bag” lunch, lest they offend the mythical thin skinned identity politics crusaders who make their living sowing division?
“The question is: is an outright ban of firearms reasonable in light of the US Constitution?” Robinson said.
Dorsch says the issue goes beyond the Second Amendment.
“I’m vulnerable. I’m not safe,” Dorsch said.
If he loses his guns, Dorsch says he loses so much more.
“My freedom,” Dorsch said. “Yeah it’s emotional. Because I don’t think it’s fair.”
Dorsch says he barely has enough money to live, never mind hire a lawyer.
The Democrats consider showing ID to vote a “poll tax.” More projection.
And to answer Mr Robinson, Esq., no, an outright ban of firearms in the home is not “reasonable” in light of the US Constitution without then opening the door to hardcore libertarian arguments that would void court decisions that make it mandatory to rent to all races, the physically disabled, and (in some instances) same sex couples, just to name a few.
If the courts want to run the private sector like a golf club, I don’t think I’d mind, frankly. People should be allowed to do what they wish with their property, because it is the ownership of that property that provides the basis for freedom — and the stigma of being labeled racist or intolerant in your renting practices with respect to racial discrimination or other forms of discrimination is enough, I should think, to allow market forces to regard those kinds of buildings with public contempt. Which can be a powerful motivator, at times.
But here, what the ownership group is doing is informing criminals that they have a soft target available to them — putting all their tenants in jeopardy.
If the courts wish to uphold that — I don’t think they can, as it violates the 2nd Amendment explicitly, and places people in harms way — then they will be compelled to revisit other such “reasonable restriction” cases.
In the end, I’m not sure I hope they don’t their case. Because the flip side of this would be private property owners requiring gun ownership as a condition of residency, or certain restaurants saying they will only agree to serve smokers or meat eaters.
So. Bring it. I guess.
Given that marijuana is an intoxicant, would any court in Colorado or Clownifornia or other “medical marijuana” states, uphold a landlord’s right to prohibit it reasonably to his tenants? As it might perturb some other tenants? In a free world, one would think a landlord could do so. In this world, you probably have more legal recourse to your herb than your firearms.
All I know is: There is no law, only power.
Well no wonder they’re obsessed with guns on the left. They’ve all read The Chairman.
No, not the Chairman of the Board, the one with the little red book.
And if he refuses to disarm or move out, what are the landlords going to do about it? Yup, you guessed it — call in some guys with guns!
I can’t find the link, but I’m pretty sure that Square, that little thingy used to take payments via your iPhone, now prohibits charges for guns and ammo.
Another sign put out facing the public: “Come, rob us, wrongdoers, do with us what you will — for we, the gun-free of this zone, are explicitly entirely at your mercy!”
Post the sign put on John Reed’s door in the movie “Reds.”
“Property is theft. Walk in.”
Here you go, Libby. The Square Seller Agreement.
A quote from the relevant section:
Short answer is yes when the lease is renewed.
I’d love to hear someone from Ross Management Group explain how this is different from hanging out a sign that says “No Papists.”
you will not accept payments in connection with the following businesses or business activities:
(27) hate or harmful products
Wow. You really can buy anything these days on the internet.
Thanks, Darth! Looks like the Left is going to use every non-governmental means to get rid of guns. Bank America will no longer do business with gun-related businesses, ditto for Square, businesses will declare themselves “Gun Free Zones”, etc.
Welcome to Obama’s America!
Libby, I’ve been trying to come up with some way to facilitate a barter economy or black market but I don’t have a good business head. I’m convinced that within 10 years the underground economy will be thriving in this country.
And then there’s this:
Which is quite a departure from how the usual rouge postal worker story normally goes…
The Beatles only said you can’t buy love, hate is available in a free market.
An old Marine isn’t going to get the sympathy, how about a gay couple? There are a lot of “haters” out there.
They have just declared that their rental properties are now safe for predators hunting preserves. And that they will be selecting for people who cannot pass the firearm background check due to problems answering question 11 on the ATF form.
Way to go, increasing the value for the company guys.
Speaking of “property is theft”, I had a recent exchange with someone, elsewhere, who maintained that “property” is a relatively new idea that we used to wrest land away from the natives with.
Which might be all well and good, but I didn’t see him falling all over himself to volunteer to have his home and belongings freed up to the community. Private property rights is the way of things in this world, and this ideal world where you don’t “own” the land you work doesn’t exist anywhere inside the US borders that I know of.
My sense of these things is that leftists will argue against private property only to the extent that it wins them the current argument, and no further.
“rouge postal worker” just kind of hit me funny.
“rouge postal worker”
Rouge is favored by Quentin Crisp, the Naked Civil Servant.
I had a recent exchange with someone, elsewhere, who maintained that “property” is a relatively new idea that we used to wrest land away from the natives with.
“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s.”
Yup. Really fucking recent, that concept of “other people’s stuff.”
Try and take a hunk of meat from a dog and see if the dog is down with the concept of “property”.
How do you “wrest land away from the natives” unless the natives considered it their property to begin with?
I think by preventing them from using it?
I am ok with the notion that natives had no notion of personal land holdings, while having a sense of tribal territory. Just that the reality of that hasn’t existed for a substantial stretch of time.
I almost asked the guy if he’d be ok with the practices espoused in And Then There Were None (as applied to property) but I rather suspected he’d be alarmed at the complete absence of government in that story.
Yeah, but try to take a boutique cupcake from an electric hamster, and he’ll just shrug and say it’s not worth arguing over.
I have trouble with trying to purely invoke property rights here, because of the 4th Amendment, and the notion of secure in their persons which I believe hearkens back to the first natural right: life. (But then what else would a lifeydoodle think?)
And then there is the obvious point to throw back at progs: You guys never cared about property rights before, could there be something about guns…?
I’m ok with the distinction between individual personal property and tribal territory, but it seems a distinction without a difference to me. I mean, Indian tribes fought each other over territory all the time, so it seems odd to claim there was no concept of property, like progg propaganda would have us believe.
Gee, I wonder if your average brave had a particular horse he considered his own, or if he had to requisition one from the hoof pool?
And then there is the obvious point to throw back at progs: You guys never cared about property rights before, could there be something about guns…?
I think that’s Jeff’s point when he alludes to a landlord’s right not to rent to blacks, or gays, or deadheads, or Italians, or Red Sox fans, or electric hamsters, or people who think contemporary Country music is actually Country music…
They tell us that discrimination is wrong, but they only complain about certain kinds. It’s like they’ve all completely misunderstood Emerson’s note about consistency and hobgoblins. But what else would one expect from the nuanced, reality-based set?
What passes for country these days is rock music in a major key.
Personal property is a very old concept. Private property isn’t quite as old, but it’s still been around -in the West at any rate- for two and a half millenia.
.
my neighbors smoke a LOT of pot and the gay ones downstairs across the way is po you can tell cause they never use air conditionings and they have piles of recycling on their patio and my other neighbor J, who is an accomplished musician who sells marketing promotional items, his apartment is a dump so he negotiated a good rate and just mostly stays over with his smoking hot gf and Sports Guy mostly just watches the sports and the Nigerians mostly keep to themselves they’re in their late 20s and their kinda stripper-looking blond girlfriends are in their early 20s and then there’s L and her husband they have fur children and are very sweet and decent and then there’s a hispanic lady what just moved in where crazy lonely dog lady used to live and the people what moved in where crazy black lady with IP camera lived are slobs with indoor furniture on their patio what has the same beach towels on it from the one time they went swimming when they first moved in then there’s the handsome ambiguously ethnic guy with the super-classy girlfriend who elegantly walks their elegant dog and never acknowledges you
they’re enigmas to me all i know is they have two grills on their deck but they never grill
they don’t look like they actually eat very much honestly
the manager wears support hose and bikes everywhere he looks like a cheerful bridge troll and he has strong opinions about stuff like people what don’t wipe up detergent off of the washers when they accidentally spill it
me i just grab a sock out of the washer and just wipe it up when I spill it
I have a gun but I don’t have any of those bullet thingies
That last bit only works as a Full Metal Jacket reference.
“I have a gun but I don’t have any of those bullet thingies”
yes leading from behind the pikachu?
it’s just the truth is all Mr. Ernst
but you know what squicks me out the most?
y’all probably do not know of this scourge
fucking. scavengers.
my goddamn trash is pawed over umpteen times a day by an endless parade of scavengers what work the alley
JUST STOP IT, LOSERS
especially you bitches what hang your bag of scavenged recycling off the strollers and root around in my trash while your now too old for strollers spawn walk into traffic
I HATE YOU ALL
it’s so depressing
the other day I say a latino couple – the serious ones what bring a truck – he was up in the truck and she was passing him up somebody’s trash, and he discarded some clinging refuse into the alley
I was pulling away in my car and I saw this happen in my mirror
so I stopped and watched the morbidly obese hispanic lady conscientiously pick up the scrap of refuse and waddle it over to the dumpster
I felt conflicted for a moment and thought about making an exception in my heart for these ones
but the moment passed
You need a more betterer truth then.
it’s just a question of prioritahs
my next errand will involve walking over to petco unleashed and getting turtle foozle and something for enrique the betta what lives up at the office
he been subsisting on just bloodworms and this blue slow-release tab thing
I think I’m a get him some fancy foozle from Japan, just to mix it up a little for enrique
i like enrique cause he’s always glad to see me
unlike those fucking squirrels
Maybe you should see what you can get in trade then.
Or take advantage of the next gun buyback in your vicinity.
no way jose my trusty firearm is my constitutional right
or power
I fergit
Well, there’s that I guess. Just remember to exercise the second half of that right once in a while.
i promise
Seriously, do. Because if one your reasons for having it in the first place is protection, you’re doing it waaaayyyyy wrong.
They’ve been carrying on a conversation about rights and powers over at Liberty Law blog, pivoting, so it seems to me, on the question of whether us people are naturally social or not so naturally social — in any case, one fella thinks the Declaration is crucially important and another fella, drawing on Robert Nisbet, thinks not so much. Anyhow, it’s a bunch of stuff, kicked off a few days back by Steven Hayward at Powerline.
We’re both at that the same time.
We associate with those who exclude the same people we exlude.
the Declaration sets the right tone
it’s like mints in the lobby
except for like if the mints were a lil sardonic and maybe even a little insouciant
like Rihanna would be if she wasn’t such a goddamn obamaslut
Between Hobbes and Aristotle, you’d have a jolly ol’ time persuading them both then.
I made a nice vanilla-mint ice cream yesterday and finished it with a chocolate-mint sauce tonight. I like me some mint.
i still have me some mints carin sent me it’s sisyphean mint
every year it grows up and up and every year the white flies come and kill it dead dead dead
in the winter, if it rains, i bring it inside so it doesn’t get too wet
but we haven’t had that kinda winter rain in many many moons
too many metaphors i need to lie down
whiteflies might could be one word I forget
Hobbes maybe. Aristotle I think would agree with me that we associate with some in part to disassociate from others.
Come to think 0f it, Hobbes would probably agree too, with more emphasis on our need to associate with others in order to protect ourselves from those who won’t associate with us.
link
Orwell called that “doublethink”
pickachus need more red
the pikachu will abide
it’s what a pikachu do
I should maybe be more specific Ernst. Aristotle says we’re the political animal (so by nature) and Hobbes goes out of his way to contradict this, saying we’re not political by nature (in his gisted form, “nasty, solitary, brutish and short lived”). But it’s Hobbes who develops modern natural right theory (which isn’t very natural at all, of course — cause otherwise it would have already been fully formed by nature without the need for conventional design). So there are outstanding questions not so well settled, and it seems to me they’re present in that discussion at L.L.Blog.
As you know very well, Hobbes needs to explain original sin without resorting to the Biblical Fall. Hobbes is moving goal posts. By the time we get to Aristotle’s political animal, man is no longer a natural one in Hobbes’ scheme.
pikachu needs a tastey cake
Actually, I don’t know how Hobbes deals with original sin (in the religious context), or whether he’s even moved to do, beyond possibly imperiling his own skin for want of making the right gestures. But you can point me toward his handling of the problem if you know where it is, and I’ll take a look.
The “state of nature” hypothetical is a secular retelling of the Garden of Eden/Fall of Man/Exile from Paradise myth.
That’s the idea I meant to convey.
As for reading, I suggest Bloom’s explication of how Rousseau turned Hobbes on his head.
To whit: if man’s natural state was so god-awful, why then did he fear death?
no way Mr. newrouter I have to win the contest no tasty cakes for me
I want that fancy brand new stylish swingline stapler so bad I can taste it
I’m a driver I’m a winner!
I’ve had the sense that Rousseau wants to know “where the hell did reason come from for this brutish man, since it simply isn’t present at all in the story you tell, Mr. Hobbes?” But I don’t have the sense that the state of nature is the Biblical story, that is, that I can’t place the state of nature there because it doesn’t fit. In fact though, I’ve no idea where to place it save in Hobbes’ imagination, since it doesn’t seem to fit with anything.
It may (or not) help if I add that I’m not ascribing a moral quality to sociability.
We can associate in order to build this city on rock and roll, or because we want to rape the women at the number six dance after we’re done a-whumpin’ and a-stompin’ every living thing that moves within an inch of its life.
Hobbes’ imagination is Biblical because that was his education.
Eden wasn’t paradise, it was hell. So no need for a Fall from Grace, since there was no Grace to be had.
a moral quality to sociability
Aristotle does though, does he not? I mean, for him men simply aren’t capable of life without friendship and love (fairness and justice), as well as harboring murderous intentions toward others right along the way. And in that respect, Rousseau sides with the ancients. Whereas Hobbes seems to want to conceive of us ultimately, should his wishes for science bloom, as mere machines (though possibly wonderous machines on account of the material complexity).
eden was cool there were pretty flowers and it was clothing optional plus nobody cared if you just wanted to coast for awhile
Mr. Milton wrote a whole poem about it that’s how cool it was
I’m not sure about Aristotle, to be honest. Sociability is natural. The quality of the ends of sociablity are either higher or lower depending on the direction of the mind that orders those ends.
would be my guess.
Mark Twain wrote a book about river rafting. You should check it out.
And don’t forget Shakespeare’s ghost stories. One takes place in Denmark, the other in Scotland.
i went to Hannibal Mo
I had coffee and soup at that place where the giant coffee cup turns round n round and bought pottery and walked a ways down the railroad tracks under the river bridge and up into the park where the lighthouse is
it was deserted cause of it was a cold day and getting colder
I saw a house there what had a semi-truck trailer in the front yard what looked like it had been hit by a cruise missile
I stopped and took a picture
Hannibal is cool they know all about the right to bear arms fuck Claire McCaskill and the food stamp horse that bitch road in on
i drove all over it’s not a thriving community exactly and the black people there are in a bit of a pickle from what I can tell
I hate to say they should move but if I were them i sure as hell would
this was before Christmas the year was 2012
Food Stamp had been reelected but the awesome finality of that hadn’t sunk in yet
America was doomed even then but you could still look out on Mark Twain’s beloved river and imagine the sense of Industry and Ambition and Progress in the unadulterated sense of the word what he perceived
now it would just be wholly ironic
I’m glad I got there in time
here is a pic of the diner
I’d for sure go back I had a maid-rite sammich and soup – the deluxe sammich not the regular one
and the service was excellent and the owner was there and he took my monies and it felt like America
DarthLevin says August 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Libby, I’ve been trying to come up with some way to facilitate a barter economy or black market but I don’t have a good business head. I’m convinced that within 10 years the underground economy will be thriving in this country.
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=50424#more-50424
Offer up your skills on Craigslist or put a flier up at your local market. “Willing to trade——-for——”
Of course it helps if you have something to barter.
It’ll be illegal, just as is the underground economy operating today.
Well, it looks like there’s been a change of heart.
Castle Rock apartment’s controversial policy banning firearms is thrown out
Rogue
employeescontractors, dontcha know.Yep.
Thrown out, or thrown under the bus? I wonder.
Douglas County is right of center. My guess is the county got wind of it and looked for legit ways to get the company’s decision overturned.
Good to see 9News also investigating the housing company for trying to this elsewhere.