May 24, 2013

Jailbait [Darleen Click]

jail·bait noun

: a girl under the age of consent with whom sexual intercourse is unlawful and constitutes statutory rape

First Known Use of JAILBAIT — 1930

Merely three years ago Whoopi Goldberg was rightfully chastised for defending Roman Polaski’s sexual relationship with a 13 year old girl by questioning whether or not it was rape-rape.

Goldberg: “We’re a different kind of society, we see things differently … would I want my 14-year-old having sex with somebody? Not necessarily, no.”

“Necessarily”? The weasel word goes to modern, left-dominated culture of “hey, kids have sex anyway, just make sure the girls don’t get pregnant.”

Of course, in practice for the Left, all sexual conduct is less about “consent” and more about personal is political statements.

On one hand, we have the the Obama Administration demanding universities criminalize even “offensive” speech as sexual harassment, making all college students nascent sexual harassers; but we have a whole new social movement dedicated to decriminalizing sexual behavior with 14 year olds

In January, Rush Limbaugh warned that there was “an effort under way to normalize pedophilia,” and was ridiculed by liberals (including CNN’s Soledad O’Brien) for saying so. But now liberals have joined a crusade that, if successful, would effectively legalize sex with 14-year-olds in Florida.

The case involves Kaitlyn Ashley Hunt, an 18-year-old in Sebastian, Florida, who was arrested in February after admitting that she had a lesbian affair with a 14-year high-school freshman. (Click here to read the affidavit in Hunt’s arrest.) It is a felony in Florida to have sex with 14-year-olds. Hunt was expelled from Sebastian High School — where she and the younger girl had sex in a restroom stall — and charged with two counts of “felony lewd and lascivious battery on a child.” The charges could put Hunt in prison for up to 15 years. Prosecutors have offered Hunt a plea bargain that would spare her jail time, but her supporters have organized an online crusade to have her let off scot-free — in effect, nullifying Florida’s law, which sets the age of consent at 16.

Using the slogan “Stop the Hate, Free Kate” (the Twitter hashtag is #FreeKate) this social-media campaign has attracted the support of liberals including Chris Hayes of MSNBC, Daily Kos, Think Progress and the gay-rights group Equality Florida. Undoubtedly, part of the appeal of the case is that Hunt is a petite attractive green-eyed blonde. One critic wondered on Twitter how long activists have “been waiting for a properly photogenic poster child of the correct gender to come along?”

Now, I would quibble with RS McCain on the “pedophilia” bit, since what we have here is really a bit more ephebophilia. However, I don’t disagree with his premise that the Left’s march through the culture doesn’t include emancipating minors from parental education and guidance in regards to sex. It is part of their larger agenda of dismantling any private institution that stands between The State and its subjects. This is why the appearance of a schizophrenic split between hyper-Puritanism on college campuses and no-age-limit-libertinism on high school campuses really isn’t. It’s about State sanction and control of relationships. Minors must be emancipated from their parents and adults must be dependent on The State.

The “SQUIRREL” in this kerfuffle is the slander of the parents of the 14 year old by the #FreeKate crowd who engage in “They are in love, leave them alone, you H8ters!” This would not be a public issue if this were an 18 year old male who, even after being warned to stay away, spirited off a 14 year old girl to have illegal sex, with aggravating circumstances, at his home.

Reasonable people can disagree about age of consent and how statutory violations should be handled. Indeed, in my 15 years at both the District Attorney’s Office and Juvenile Probation, I’ve seen and continue to see hundreds of such cases. California’s age of consent is 18, with many subsections dealing with the age difference between the participants and coercion.

However, the basic assumption underlying all age of consent laws is that minors under it are incapable of giving consent. Are the drawn lines arbitrary? Yes, but that doesn’t make them unreasonable. We draw an arbitrary line when we say 16 year olds are mature enough to get a driver’s license but 12 year olds are not, even if there are some incompetent 16 y/o drivers and some 12 y/o’s who are.

Kate’s parents were negligent in not educating her to Florida’s laws and explaining to her what the term “jailbait” meant. The Leftists using Kate as a political cudgel do her no favors as she learns politics can allow her to avoid responsibility for her own admitted illegal acts.

RS McCain:

Prosecutors in the case are apparently determined to resist the politically correct demands of the ACLU, MSNBC and other liberals who don’t care about the precedent that might be set by nullifying Florida’s age of consent laws. What is remarkable — and alarming to many parents — is that liberals appear to be unashamed to argue for legalizing sex with 14-year-olds

Alarming, but not surprising.

That’s who they are, that’s what they do.

Posted by Darleen @ 11:55am
264 comments | Trackback

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Comments (264)

  1. If everyone outside the corridors of power is livestock, there’s no reason to uphold their dignity — whether by punishing those who injure it, or shaming those who reject it for themselves.

  2. When did having sex in high school public restrooms become the norm or considered okay no matter who is doing it?

    No one tells me anything.

  3. . . . put their mouths on each other’s vaginas . . .

    I’m not a Lesbian (I’ve never been that good at softball) but from my experience, they’re doing it wrong.

  4. Kate no Hate doesn’t wear a roman collar or letter in High School football.

    Where’s the problem, Darleen?

  5. yeah Alec … where is the DailyKos cries that it was about

    Young Priests in Love?

    (great slash title, eh?)

  6. Since this is Florida, they should show a picture of Kate no Hate in county orange a la Zimmerman, juxtaposed against the victim as a toddler, right?

  7. 1. If the defendant can point to a pattern of not prosecuting heterosexual instances like this one, then they might have a rhetorical point of malicious use of prosecutorial discretion.

    2. Otherwise This IS having your relationship recognized as equivalent to everyone else’s.

  8. Never mind the sex, it’s a good thing Kate didn’t take any pictures. They’d both be on sex offender lists for life.

    Someone in this society is crazy. I guess it is me.

  9. Pingback: BREAKING: Kaitlyn Hunt Refuses Plea Offer, Will Face Trial on June 20 : The Other McCain

  10. mondamay

    Guess I’m crazy, too, because I really really have problems with zero-tolerance shit being expanded to sex-offender registries.

    It dilutes the definition of sex-offender, just like what left-feminists have done to the word “rape”.

  11. Otherwise This IS having your relationship recognized as equivalent to everyone else’s.

    Unless you are a hawt twenty something high school teacher who likes to knock boots with her 15-16 year old male students. Then, high five! and some probation, but no jail time.

  12. When did having sex in high school public restrooms become the norm or considered okay no matter who is doing it?

    Oh, it matters who’s doing it. That’s the entire point.

  13. Gawd, don’t summon the Pikachu. Please.

  14. Darleen

    The mixed messages are epic.

    “Age of consent” has been watered down in most places to include people within a range of years. The idea is “kids will be kids”, until cameras are involved, at which point, an already embarrassed 16 year old learns her life really is over.

  15. mondamay

    it’s mixed messages on steriods. Being a “virgin” is considered a dreaded disease, NARAL is opposed to any restriction on late-term infanticide and demands no age limit to over-the-counter day-after pills, schools can help ur underage daughter get an abortion without your knowledge & Planned Parenthood routinely facilitates statutory rape by providing abortions to minors and not informing the police when baby-daddy is in his 20s or 30s

    Yet, we are never to speak of any woman’s behavior in any less-than-flattering way or question her accusations against a male.

  16. they really learned a lot i bet they really learned a lot cause of love is like a flame it burns you when it’s hot

  17. Anyone else notice the pornofication of sex in America is pretty much complete?

    We have an 18 year old using sexual devices on a 14 year old, and vice versa, along with mutual oral sex and sex in a public place. Never mind the lesbian aspect of the whole thing.

    This kind of thing used the be the subject of pornographic films. Instead, people are actually doing this kind of thing in real life. (the wife who was busted a few years ago at a MN Vikings game going for it with some random stud in the bathroom also comes to mind)

    The double standard is also mind-boggling, because everyone knows that if it was an 18 year old guy with a 14 year old girl, no one would utter a word to defend the creep.

  18. Blake says May 24, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Anyone else notice the pornofication of sex in America is pretty much complete?

    Yup, except with Russian Roulette style consequences.

  19. Nor would anyone care if she consented or not, or give credence to a she came on to me! type defense (not that the latter has been offered here —at least I don’t think so, not yet).

  20. Just in case none of these brain trusts were in the know: there is a new, drug-resistant strain of gonorrhea making the rounds. It promises to be harder to cure than AIDS. There are horrific pictures available online that should put anyone off of casual hookups forever.

  21. that poor girl had to grow up with the name K.Hunt. Parents.

  22. bgbear, I’m unclear about why she’s so against prison time. She should be right at home as someone’s bitch. Especially with that name.

  23. From Stacy McCain’s Pingback:

    Sebastian High School student Kaitlyn Hunt refuses plea deal for charges of improper relationship with 14-year-old girlfriend

    — CBS12 (@CBS12) May 24, 2013

    Just look at that sensistive euphemism. My God! The media’s treating this poor girl like she was a terrorist!.

  24. Semi-OT: A question that’s been on my mind, re. minors and naughty images thereof.

    We all more-or-less agree that photos of sex photos of minors taken by adults are a Terrible Thing, because of creepy fat old white guys with cigars (no, not you Mr. Clinton!) selling kiddy porn. And the exploitation.

    We’ve apparently decided that if minors take nude photos of themselves and email them around, then certainly anyone who receives such are in possession of the deadly Kiddie Pron, and if the prosecutor feels like being a dick that day the producer of the self-shot footage can also be charged with making same. Which strikes me as absurd, on both counts; we can argue that a minor doesn’t have to right to decide to ‘go public’ with their privates (which seems rather ‘quaint’ given the “15 yr olds can get abortion pills over-the-counter without telling their parents or anybody at all” thing), but I reject any argument that it’s possible for a minor to “exploit herself“. At least to the level of criminal exploitation. Undesirable behavior, sure, but the ‘crime’ winds up being its own punishment — what with the Internet never forgetting and all — and parents are presumably still allowed to punish their idiot teenagers. I don’t see a reason to involve the heavy-handed Justice system, for all concerned parties.

    But whatever.

    The question I was wondering: what if an 18 year old sends out (previously unreleased) nudie pics of themselves that they took when they were 16? Is that still ‘kiddie porn’? Does an adult have the right to ‘exploit’ a younger version of themselves? I’ve little doubt that a DA looking to get his name in the paper could find something to charge the adult with, but I’m hard-pressed to come up with a justification…

  25. I’m still wondering if I committed a crime when I took nekkid pictures of my children in the bathtub or lying on a blanket when they tykes?

    Darleen could be in real hot water with the new grandbaby coming and her being a photographer and all.

  26. The question I was wondering: what if an 18 year old sends out (previously unreleased) nudie pics of themselves that they took when they were 16?

    It’s entirely possible, because the image itself is illegal regardless of whether or not you consent to it being released.

    It’s insane, and one can hope for some reasonableness in the DA office (but in the age of Nifong & ilk, it is a tremulous hope). The law definitely should be changed.

  27. leigh

    It’s nothing to joke about.

    And this isn’t about a Puritanical culture; indeed, nude children in paintings/photos was never an issue until the bright-line of appropriate sexual behavior was blurred.

  28. I think you have to prosecute idiocy and self-exploitation as vigorously as you would the victimization of other minors. To do less is to promote the further downward definition of deviancy. (Sort of like the argument that sex in a bathroom stall is a beautiful thing when a barely adult lesbian does it with a juvenile who may be a lesbian or may only be curious) That said, I also think that youthful idiocy and self-exploitation ought to count as mitigating factors at sentencing.

  29. Oh, I know Darleen. I wasn’t joking. My folks should probably have been sent to prison what with letting me take baths with my brothers when we were small—with photographic evidence! plus running through the sprinklers in our underwear, to say nothing of the actual spankings we used to get.

  30. 18 yr old having sexual relations with a 14 yr old. Rape. Gender irrelevant. So says this 54 yr old lesbian.

  31. Ernst, when we threw away shame as tool to make people behave in society, the battle was won for the exploiters.

  32. Other rape of the usual sort with an included metaphorical-political rape story. But celebrate the nation, peoples, ’cause Unka Barry says it’s great.

  33. Throwing away shame is part of why we’re simultaneously puritanical and salacious. It also explains the growing reliance on state administered sanctions.

  34. the bright-line of appropriate sexual behavior was blurred

    Agreed, something weird happened. I don’t know if I can articulate this well but, when it comes to parent’s pix of their nekkid kids and children in fine art, photography etc it seems we are taking what used to be common, acceptable, and esthetically pleasing and treating it all like smut. In a sense, the pedophiles win, we are all now suppose to believe a naked kid only means something prurient instead of part of the beauty of life.

    It is kind of like the way guns are suppose to only represent crazy-ass killers.

  35. Tracy, you’re right, but do you have to be so mean?After all, you might hurt someone’s feelings with that kind of attitude……(practicing my leftist guilt trip. How’m I doing?)

  36. bg: Indeed. Could you imagine the uproar — and possible criminal procedings and/or congressional hearings — if somone tried to release the Blind Faith or Houses of the Holy album covers today?

  37. The weird thing that happened is that the political overtook the public sphere, before going on to colonize, erode and reduce the private sphere.

    Which may very well be what Jürgen Habermas intended. I don’t know.

  38. improper relationship

    I gave this bitch a wine cooler last night and lets just say I’m crossing my fingers right now . . .

  39. It is really just the same old story, we are all getting punished for the behavior of the lowest common denominator.

  40. That, and we’re well on our way to sexplay, as Huxley described it.

    [RUSH:]At any rate, this morning on Fox Martha MacCallum had a guest who has written a book about this phenomenon called hooking up, and the guest was Donna Freitas. And I think that’s how she pronounces the name. Her book is: “The End of Sex: How Hookup Culture is Leaving a Generation Unhappy, Sexually Unfulfilled, and Confused About Intimacy.” And Martha MacCallum said, “Where do we go from here? How does this affect, or does it affect, these kids’ relationships as they go through life?”

    FREITAS: One of the things that I think we really need to talk about as a culture is what is the meaning of sex, given hookup culture. You showed those words that students will use, “regretful” and “empty” and “ashamed,” you know, that 41% of students, you know, and how they respond to hooking up.
    But there’s another middle group, about 30% of students, who are really ambivalent. And I think that group is getting bigger because I think students are getting much better at hooking up, which means they’re getting better at having ambivalent sex. The sex isn’t about fun or even really about pleasure. It’s about getting it done and being able to say that you did it.

    MACCALLUM: That’s the whole thing, just documenting, ’cause we live in this media culture where it’s like, you know, the numbers and just doing something just to say you did it or to take pictures of the event and then put it out there online so you can prove to everybody that you’re having a great time.

    FREITAS: They’re getting better at hooking up. You know, when they’re better at being able to walk away and say, “You know what, I don’t feel a thing. I don’t want to see that person again. It didn’t really mean anything to me.”

    (Blatantly stolen from Rush Limbaugh’s transcript of the excerpt aired on his Thursday show)

    How far behind can orgy porgy be, do you suppose?

  41. Greetings:

    My dear woman, haven’t you yet read “The Chronicles of NAMBLA” ??? This process has been going on for a long, long time, probably since the American Psychological Association voted homosexuality out of the Diagnostic Manual.

  42. Hottest Affidavit of probable cause I’ve read in a while.

  43. Oh, I don’t know. I think Ms. Kaitlyn has a pleasant Hayden Panettiere thing going on.

    She could eat crackers wherever she wants, ‘s all I’m sayin’.

  44. Considering that even drawings of imaginary people are illegal, it safe to say you can’t even release your own pictures.

    I have a theory that a huge legal judo move is coming, and may soon happen. Sure everyone speaks out against these improper relationships, but this case is demonstrating that the progs’ hearts aren’t really in it. The sex offender list was a stupid idea from the beginning, as dangerous people need to be in prison rather than on a list, and the ever-growing numbers of obvious abuses and gray areas are setting the whole concept of governments enforcing against these kinds of behavior as unrealistic and unpopular.

    My guess is that the right will be left trying to defend a lot of rules and laws that weren’t necessarily their idea in the first place (see Don’t ask, Don’t tell), and “losing” again. Standards are just slipping away too fast for us to count any behavior as verboten culturally speaking, and the injustices of draconian government punishments for behavior that is better handled by unfettered parents and societal shame (when it exists), just erodes the standards even further.

    Just something to consider.

  45. When did having sex in high school public restrooms become the norm or considered okay no matter who is doing it?

    No one tells me anything.

    Blowjobs ion the school bus have been in vogue ever since we found out that “Eating ain’t cheating.”

  46. The question I was wondering: what if an 18 year old sends out (previously unreleased) nudie pics of themselves that they took when they were 16? Is that still ‘kiddie porn’?

    Oh, where’s your imagination, John? It gets even better than that: N.J. Teen Accused of Child Porn for Posting Nude Photos of Self

    14-year-old New Jersey girl has been accused of child pornography for posting nearly 30 explicit nude pictures of herself on MySpace.com — charges that could force her to register as a sex offender if convicted.

  47. @Mondamy

    Yes, back in the sixties, a lot of times a pedophile wouldn’t even make it to jail. Parents had a unique way of treating people of this sort.

  48. When I was in high school, one of the cheerleaders was willing to give just about anybody a hand job on the bus on the way back from a game.

    That was a long, long, time ago.

  49. Standards are just slipping away too fast for us to count any behavior as verboten culturally speaking, and the injustices of draconian government punishments for behavior that is better handled by unfettered parents and societal shame (when it exists), just erodes the standards even further

    The state is a blunt instrument; the statists like it that way.

    Ed Driscoll closed the item I linked last night with a Theodore Dalrymple quote that’s worth repeating:

    Having spent a considerable proportion of my professional career in Third World countries in which the implementation of abstract ideas and ideals has made bad situations incomparably worse, and the rest of my career among the very extensive British underclass, whose disastrous notions about how to live derive ultimately from the unrealistic, self-indulgent, and often fatuous ideas of social critics, I have come to regard intellectual and artistic life as being of incalculable practical importance and effect. John Maynard Keynes wrote, in a famous passage in The Economic Consequences of the Peace, that practical men might not have much time for theoretical considerations, but in fact the world is governed by little else than the outdated or defunct ideas of economists and social philosophers. I agree: except that I would now add novelists, playwrights, film directors, journalists, artists, and even pop singers. They are the unacknowledged legislators of the world, and we ought to pay close attention to what they say and how they say it.

    See also, Paul Johnson’s Intellectuals

  50. When I was in high school, one of the cheerleaders was willing to give just about anybody a hand job on the bus on the way back from a game.

    That’s what our debate team did wrong. No cheerleaders.

  51. Ernst Schreiber says May 24, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    That’s a chicken and egg thing to me. I doubt that the underclasses and Third World would be so keen on pop singers et al., if it weren’t for an enviable group of idle rich making them seem more appealing. It’s hard to express without descending into cliche or even class envy rhetoric, but Americans (and Europeans) have become almost too rich to have any real grasp of realistic priorities, or how fragile our technological safety net really is.

  52. That’s what our debate team did wrong. No cheerleaders.

    I knew I had a good reason for quitting the chess club.

  53. As a mom of 13 y/o and 15 y/o girls …

    Honestly, this is horrible. Consent? Willing? Please. They do NOT know their own minds.

    And yes. A 14 y/o could be coerced into being gay. Girls at that age can do wackier things for approval.

  54. And honestly- to address the argument that it was consensual, they were in “love” , if this 18 y/o LOVED the 14, she wouldn’t have touched her. People can do that. Wait.

    Why have we accepted the idea that desire/love needs to be acted upon?

    Because people want what they want when they want it.

    I had friends that were “in love” with older men. You know what those men did? Waited until she turned 18 ( he was 21, we were in high school.)

    Once she was 18 AND graduated from high school, then their friendship became more.

    We have no honor, anymore, as a society.

  55. Actually, the real benefit to waiting is that a teen’s feelings go through so many contortions before 18 (and some after, of course) that if the old guy’s lucky the kid will have totally forgotten being in love with him, and instead of dying on his wedding night and leaving his kids to contest the will and enrich a bunch of lawyers, he’ll live to a ripe old age and marry Anna Nicole Smith instead.

    [...]

    Huh. My argument took a wrong turn somewhere.

  56. When Stacy tweeted about this story, I checked it out and noticed his first commenter thought the age of consent should be 21. Were that to be the case, someone who advocated reducing it to 18 or 16 would, by Stacy’s logic, be attempting to “normalize pedophilia”.

    I must be weird or something, because I think most states’ ages of consent are too high. For centuries, a Jewish boy would stand before the congregation at age 13 and declare “today I am a man”. Many other cultures also considered children to become adults at roughly that age. Somehow, though, as children have been physically maturing faster, with the average age of menarche falling earlier, we’ve passed laws that go the opposite direction. We say you aren’t old enough to drive a car until you’re 16 in most states, and every legislative session someone proposes adding restrictions on those under 18. You can’t buy tobacco or a lottery ticket until you’re 18, alcohol or any other form of gambling until 21. Obamacare says you’re a child for health-insurance purposes until 26.

    I say that’s backwards as hell. By artificially prolonging childhood, we’ve created a nasty situation. Consider that our historical 13-year-old young adult would be working in a job, surrounded by other adults, most of whom were much older, where he’s expected to behave in a mature manner and not do anything stupid that can get a whole hunting party or mining crew, etc. killed. He’s under severe peer pressure to grow the fsck up.

    In our current scheme, we gather together large numbers of teens, such that 95+% of the people in the building are no more than three years older, and we wonder why they turn out like Lord of the Flies.

    Instead of setting age of consent so high, and otherwise prolonging “childhood” far beyond its natural end, we should be teaching young men and women to make better decisions when they are allowed to do so.

  57. Monster

    While I agree with you about physical maturity, today’s 13 year olds are not in any way mentally prepared to engage in sex.

    Indeed, even that mature 13 year of old would have been taught/expected to NOT to engage in sex until marriage. And it would have been enforced by family & community.

    We cannot look at the pathology of trying to make sexual intimacy no more consequential than picking out what outfit to wear and just shrug our shoulders “oh well, teens are going to knock boots, might as well make sure the sheets are clean, the sex toys disinfected and everyone on The Pill.”

    It’s kind of the argument I have with people who demand legalization of all drugs. I say, fine, as soon as the welfare state is dismantled.

    In the old days, any 18 y/o who diddled a 14 y/o would have been beaten up by the dad of the 14 y/o and the community would merely tsk tsk and hold the 18 y/o responsible.

    The parents of the 14 y/o already warned Kate and she just ignored them, secure in her hubris that her Lesbian card could bring all the anti-family ilk to her side.

  58. Why have we accepted the idea that desire/love needs to be acted upon?

    Because animals copulate whenever season is upon them. And the Left has spent 50 odd years stripping culture of the divine and making sure we consider ourselves little more than animals.

  59. Because animals copulate whenever season is upon them.

    Which takes it all right back to the hoi polloi being livestock.

  60. Animals are generally pickier than we tend to give them credit for in such disregarding statements as “whenever season is upon” and such.

    It’s even possible to teach adolescents about that, as they’re equipped with the mental capacity to understand the terms in which animal behavior and effort is discussed. Hence, it may be possible that adolescents can find the capacity in themselves to reflect on their own behaviors and efforts, to distinguish between slavish behaviors and the behaviors of freemen and women. That might be worth the effort too — without which, how would anyone know the outcome?

  61. Hey, that would make a great experiment! Any chance of a federal grant?

  62. The missus should write one, McGehee. You even have a convenience population with all those cats of hers for study.

  63. Ha, McG. Being as it’s a federal grant one might be tempted to seek, perhaps the thing to do is consult Jeremy Bentham in order to derive the proper utility by which to persuade the granting agent, who no doubt would be a progressive federal bureaucratic implant of the first and most sturdy order, that success (and the world! Empire!) will be ours?

  64. Pingback: Steynian 468nth | Free Canuckistan!

  65. Why have we accepted the idea that desire/love needs to be acted upon?

    Short answer? Death in Venice

    Skip ahead to pp. 230-35 in Bloom, if you want to know.

    Key quote: “Sex is no longer an activity but a cause” (235).

  66. 15 years in jail is ridiculous Americans are simply not a people what prize freedom terribly highly at all

    they used to though

  67. It used to be said that 15 will get you twenty, so, progress.

    But thank you for proving Bloom’s point.

  68. i been the wind beneath bloom’s wings for ages now it seems

  69. hf

    You’ll be happy to know that the fed have ordered CA to let loose 10K more state prisoners

    on top of the thousands already out under AB109 … and you’ll be happy to know that a good many of them, contrary to press, ARE registered sex offenders

    That guy who kidnapped and raped a 10 year old in Northridge just a few months ago?

    AB109

  70. “Homes not jails!”

  71. How many of these prisoners are illegal aliens? ICE is going to ship them back where they came from, amiright?

  72. how is this my problem exactly Darleen California is someone else’s problem not mine one

  73. they shoulda balanced their budgests more better and not let arnold borrow $3 billion dollars for to waste on buying exotic stem cells

    i tried to tell them did they listen?

    hell no they didn’t listen

  74. *budgets*

  75. How is 15 years in jail for a rapist your problem, hummm?

  76. cause of it is indicative of living in a lil country with people what do not value freedom very highly Mr. Lee

    in america you really have to do all you can to fly under the radar

    it’s cause of all the fascism

  77. Why would the people highly value freedom in a lil country that doesn’t honor the law?

    …A law?

    …the rule of law?

    You need to look in the mirror more when complaining about the state of the country.

  78. “In the old days, any 18 y/o who diddled a 14 y/o would have been beaten up by the dad of the 14 y/o”

    Sorry, Darleen, that’s just nonsense.

    I had one great-grandmother who married at 14, one at 15. Both to men in their early twenties. Not only was no one “beaten up”, but both couples remained together until their death deaths..

  79. Spies, I think Darleen made the distinction you did, at married. I doubt your great gran was fucked in the bathroom stall at school after the 20 year old was warned to stay away.

  80. i look in the mirror plenty thank you how else you gonna make sure you get even coverage when you apply your loreal hydra-renewal

  81. “Spies, I think Darleen made the distinction you did, at married. ”

    Well, let’s just say comparing one marriage certificate and birth certificate would appear to indicate a near-miraculous survival of a premature baby. Was a shotgun involved in the marriage? Perhaps, but as noted they were a happy loving couple for the rest of their lives, so I doubt that too much pressure was needed.

    With respect to the bathroom stall, I already mentioned upthread the HS cheerleader who would give handies to anyone on the team bus. That was close to 40 years ago.

  82. While I agree with you about physical maturity, today’s 13 year olds are not in any way mentally prepared to engage in sex.

    My 16-year-old is like that. The really cool thing is: she knows it. The even cooler thing is: she knows that the boys her age are even less mature than she is.

  83. Thank you, Tracy.

    Thus demonstrating that the world is divided not into gay and straight but decent and indecent.

  84. I had one great-grandmother who married at 14, one at 15. Both to men in their early twenties.

    In those days, puberty was considered old enough to be married and to start a family.

    Biologically, it was the truth. Plus, in those days, everyone knew what you were supposed to do once you got married: it didn’t require maturity to be married so much as following the norms and conventions.

    People didn’t marry their “soul mates” but rather took on “role mates”: a man got himself a wife to do wife things while he did husband things. They weren’t looking for someone to fulfill all their fairy-tale needs.

    Also, children in those days had seen plenty of death and hardship by the time they hit puberty: one or more siblings had died from disease, or if not their family then in the neighbor’s family. Childishness wasn’t indulged gladly.

    Living closer to the earth and closer to the consequences of one’s actions, they didn’t live in a fantasy world where milk came from the grocery store and Mother Earth would never be so cruel as to kill you where you stood.

    IOW, a 14-year-old from 150 years ago was a far sight more mature than one from today.

    The age disparity — teenaged girls marrying men in their 20s — also goes a long way toward explaining the paternalistic attitude husbands had towards their wives: the “advice columns” (or whatever they had) focused on instructing the child-wife in the way she should go, because the husband actually was more mature and wiser than she.

    That said, marrying off young girls had its share of consequences. Just different ones than we have now.

  85. That was close to 40 years ago.

    ahhh, Woodstock was 45 years ago. But whatever, if you want to pretend things are the same as always, carry on…

  86. I had one great-grandmother who married at 14, one at 15. Both to men in their early twenties.

    I hear ya, Spies. My grandmother was married at 15 to a man of 30 who was a pal of her dad’s. My mother’s sister got married at 16 to a man who was almost 30. My mother and father got married while my mother was still in high school. It was practically a tradition. I started to feel like an old maid when I turned 18 and didn’t have a husband.

  87. cause of it is indicative of living in a lil country with people what do not value freedom very highly Mr. Lee

    On account of until 18 year old are allowed to diddle 14 year olds in high school bathrooms because they’re in love, none of us will truly be free.

  88. “Biologically, it was the truth. ”

    Absolutely. The general rule where my g-g-parents lived was (I suspect) very similar to where yours lived.

    The husband was expected to be well-established in farming or in a trade, which meant 20s or 30s, usually. The wife had to be capable of bearing children and doing all the things required to care for a family. Which, in those days, happened at puberty.

    I agree completely that today’s teens aren’t prepared to do those things. The problem is that they don’t stop having sex as a result. If anything, the immaturity makes them MORE likely to engage in sex without considering the long-term consequences.

    “My grandmother was married at 15 to a man of 30 who was a pal of her dad’s. ”

    Very, very common. That’s why it rankles to see idiots like McCain calling them “pedophiles”. Sexual attraction to those who have gone through puberty is not pedophilia, by definition.

  89. “ahhh, Woodstock was 45 years ago”

    So what? My great-grandparents were retired before Woodstock, and had no respect for hippies.

    They were still having sex when the girl was still in her mid-teens.

    If there’s ever been a time in human history when teens weren’t having sex, I’m not aware of it.

  90. I think McCain’s point about pedophilia was that the supporters of Kaitlyn Hunt were seeking to carve at an exception to the statutory rape laws based on the protected class of the perp and the claimed emotional attachment, along with consent of the victim.

    McCain’s pedophile comment links to a Limbaugh segment about an article in a British paper which raises the question of whether pedophilia is a disorder (like homosexuality used to be) or just another attraction/orientation (like homosexuality has become).

    I think it’s a legitimate point, however awkwardly linked to the Hunt case.

  91. Then he should use the correct term, which is “statutory rape”, not “pedophilia”.

    I wonder what a gander at McCain’s family tree would show.

  92. Then be mad at Rush Limbaugh, who made the argument that an effort to normalize pedophilia, the same way homosexuality had been normalized, was getting underway. Or better still, be mad at the journalist who wrote the article raising the issue in the first place.

    All McCain did was point out that without age of consent laws, there is no statutory rape.

  93. SBP, you said what Darleen wrote was “nonsense”, and used your aged ancestors “shot gun wedding” as the reason.

    I think you made Darleens point in trying to refute it.

  94. “I think you made Darleens point in trying to refute it.”

    I think you are either misreading or willfully misinterpreting. Darleen was going on about the “old days”. In the “old days”, 14 year olds were MARRIED. Routinely.

    “Then be mad at Rush Limbaugh, who made the argument that an effort to normalize pedophilia”

    Sexual activities with teenagers are not “pedophilia”. I’m not saying that it’s a laudable activity, but, you know, words do have meanings.

    “All McCain did was point out that without age of consent laws”

    McCain and Limbaugh might want to look into what the age of consent was in various states prior to, say, the early 20th century. It would curl their hair.

  95. My point is this:

    If we are going to be a nation of laws, let’s not be a nation of laws with various exceptions carved out for priveleged classes.

    Laws have consequences. If you’re going to have age-of-consent laws, have the foresight to anticipate that an 18-year-old grooming the lawn of a 14-year-old will result in said 18-year-old going to jail.

    Also, if you’re going to require that parents sign permission slips in order to permit the application of sunscreen on underage students but also require that said underage students be permitted to get an abortion without said permission, and even without said knowledge, that people are going to be all WTF on you.

    It’s not as if our Congress is so overworked with the naming of various buildings and federal holidays that they can’t think ahead a bit.

  96. Ok, that was unfair, blaming Congress for state and local ordinances.

  97. Find a copy of Tammy Bruce and read Chapter 7, “Destruction of the Innocents: The Left Targets Children.”

  98. I think you are either misreading or willfully misinterpreting Darleen.

    Here’s what she said, that you called nonsense:

    “Indeed, even that mature 13 year of old would have been taught/expected to NOT to engage in sex until marriage. And it would have been enforced by family & community. [...] In the old days, any 18 y/o who diddled a 14 y/o would have been beaten up by the dad of the 14 y/o”

    What woulda happened to old great granddad if he hadn’t married your gran?

    You know what a shotgun wedding is…

  99. Sexual activities with teenagers are not “pedophilia”. I’m not saying that it’s a laudable activity, but, you know, words do have meanings.

    You’re correct and I reget not reading more carefully (Darleen addressed that at the beginning of her analysis, by the way). Nonetheless the larger point stands, an effort is underway in this instance to undermine Florida’s age of consent law. Whether it will be successful or not remains to be seen

    If it is, one of the consequences is going to be to further advance the acceptability of sexualizing children –regardless of whether the “child” is post- or pre- pubescent.

    I have no doubt that some of the groups supporting Miss Hunt are counting on exactly that.

  100. verdammt

    Sexual activities with teenagers are not “pedophilia”. I’m not saying that it’s a laudable activity, but, you know, words do have meanings.

    You’re correct and I reget not reading more carefully (Darleen addressed that at the beginning of her analysis, by the way). Nonetheless the larger point stands, an effort is underway in this instance to undermine Florida’s age of consent law. Whether it will be successful or not remains to be seen

    If it is, one of the consequences is going to be to further advance the acceptability of sexualizing children –regardless of whether the “child” is post- or pre- pubescent.

    I have no doubt that some of the groups supporting Miss Hunt are counting on exactly that.

  101. “What woulda happened to old great granddad if he hadn’t married your gran?”

    So you’re arguing that the 18 year old should be allowed to marry the 14 year old?

    Sorry, no comprende.

    “Nonetheless the larger point stands, an effort is underway in this instance to undermine Florida’s age of consent law.”

    If I’m not mistaken (and I might be… it’s not an area I follow closely) Florida was one of the states where the age of consent was 12 until quite recently (like within the last couple of decades).

  102. “So you’re arguing that the 18 year old should be allowed to marry the 14 year old?”

    Yes! THAT”S what I’m arguing!

    *eye roll*

  103. So, You’re arguing the age of consent should be 12?

  104. Roman Polanski could not be reached for comment, he being in his bunk.

  105. I don’t believe anyone is encouraging 14 year olds to get married. The fact that many (too many) are having sexual intercourse and becoming pregnant is a problem. Not one that Ms. Hunt and her quail have to worry about, however.

  106. The fact that many (too many) are having sexual intercourse and becoming pregnant is a problem.

    California got around all those pesky age of consent/teenage pregnancy problems by passing a law that children can get abortions without the parents consent, or even knowledge.

    Consequences? We don’t need no stinking consequences…

  107. Practically none of the underage girls in Oklahoma get abortions. When I was teaching high school, there were at lest three girls who had more than one child already.

    Guess who gets stuck with the bills?

  108. Not the baby daddy.

  109. SBP

    Not “nonsense” at all. Rarely would small communities toss dads in jail for beating up the male who deflowered his underage daughter.

    Knowing one could get beat up or forced into a shotgun wedding if said little one turned up preggers was a huge incentive for horny young men to avoid underage females regardless of how willing and round-heeled they presented themselves.

    And the ages of marriage actually work to prove my point on how community & family expectations worked.

    And can we please stop buying into this thought that young people are just too primitive, too primate to control their urges? How flippin’ insulting! Do you teach your kids to brush their teeth? Wipe their asses with toilet paper? Do the things that are RIGHT regardless of how they feel about it? Is sexual conduct LESS important that we toss up our hands and let them fornicate on the front lawn like a dog & bitch?

    Good flippin lord.

  110. Spitballing about a speculation here, but I wonder if the 14 yr. old’s parents have a civil case against either Kaitlyn Hunt or her parents. Something along the lines of custodial interference maybe?

  111. everything will be ok if you just leave the lil lesbians alone I promise

    there’s so much more importanter things to worry about for example like how meghan’s coward daddy is trying to sneak through a convoluted immigration scheme without any debate

    also I have low water pressure in my kitchen faucet ever since the bridge troll came to fix it to where it takes forever just to fill the kettle

  112. Have you checked to see that the shut-offs were reopened?

  113. “everything will be ok if you just leave the lil lesbians alone I promise”

    go away militant gbiantidarwin peeps.

  114. under the sink yeah it doesn’t seem to make a difference

    i pried a screen out of the new faucet and that helped but there’s a plastic thing in there after that i can’t get out

    i tried to unscrew the end of the faucet but it looks like it doesn’t unscrew so i just ended up scraping all the silvery stuff off the end and making it look ugly to where now I don’t want to call the bridge troll back

  115. Sometimes in new installations the aerator can get clogged with bits of debris all right, like copper shavings or bits of solder that break loose after a little use. So maybe that’s it. Or a pinched supply hose? But it ain’t right the pressure should drop.

  116. i think yeah there’s some sort of clog behind the red plastic thing – which i guess is the aerator

    pressure everywhere else is ok so maybe that’s the wrong way to describe it

    i just need more water to come out faster or over time it’ll really add up, these extra seconds i spend at the sink

  117. Is that the only low pressure place?

  118. Answered before asked.

  119. yes just in the kitchen

    there’s still a small leak but nothing near as bad as it was

    the mold under the sink is godawful though but I don’t think bridge troll wants to mess with it though so I just sprayed it with resolve carpet cleaner

  120. Maybe it’s one of those wacky faucet cartridges. I’ve had those go hinky on me before.

    If it’s one where you turn the (only) center handle one way for hot and the other way for cold, it could be that cartridge has a little speck of junk in it.

    Had no end of that problem until I just pulled the entire fixture and popped in a Kohler.

  121. Every time the city would come around and open up the fire hydrants (to clear them?) small pieces of rust/sediment would come through the pipes and clog up any screen in a faucet. Plus make the clothes that were washing right then nice and rust brown.

  122. yup that’s exactly the kind it is

  123. Everything will be okay if the law is applied equally.

  124. since that faucet will come out of my deposit since it’s all scritched up i might should just invest in a kohler now

    that’s a good idea

  125. popped in a Kohler.

    I’ve never had any trouble with a Moen either.

  126. “Rarely would small communities toss dads in jail for beating up the male who deflowered his underage daughter.”

    Rarely were they beaten up because that would advertise the damaged good status of the daughter to the community at large. Generally they were forced to marry them.

    So, that’s what you’re advocating here?

  127. Maybe pick one up and before you take it out of the box and toss the receipt, uninstall the old fixture, get a couple buckets and make sure you’re getting full water pressure from both supply lines. If you are, it’s gotta be something in the current fixture and installing the new one will work.

  128. “And can we please stop buying into this thought that young people are just too primitive, too primate to control their urges? ”

    So, on the one hand they’re too fragile and immature to be trusted to have sex, and yet on the other hand they’re expected to make adult-quality decisions?

    Pick a position and stick to it.

    Thanks.

  129. “since that faucet will come out of my deposit since it’s all scritched up i might should just invest in a kohler now”

    if the shit ain’t working make the landlord fix it. or take it off the rent.

    regards,
    landlord

  130. “Generally they were forced to marry them.”

    Note that this is the remedy the Bible prescribes, even in cases of outright rape. You broke it, you bought it.

    Maybe the “old days” weren’t such a golden age after all, eh?

  131. i will take that advice

    maybe soon as tomorrow

  132. about changing it

    I like to fly under the radar as much as possible Mr. newrouter

    plus I never changed a faucet before this will be a broadening experience for me

  133. SBP, what is it exactly you are advocating here?

  134. Note that this is the remedy the Bible prescribes, even in cases of outright rape

    Where does the bible say that?

  135. If you have mold, especially black mold, under your sink, you have an issue that the landlord needs to take care of. Black mold will kill you if you are breathing it (and you are). He needs to knock a hole in the wall and see if you have a joint that is leaking in there.

    Think of your turtles. If you won’t do it for you, do it for them.

  136. “plus I never changed a faucet before this will be a broadening experience for me”

    plumber’s putty, teflon tape, 20″ flex connections w 3/8 fit(check the shut off might be 1/2″) and get the tool to take off the nut holding the faucet to the sink.

  137. yeah i thought about that leigh it is very black and evil looking mold

    but so far we’re all healthy

    the turtles are outside for the night

    this whole thing makes me grumpy though

    mold is stupid

  138. Note that this is the remedy the Bible prescribes, even in cases of outright rape. You broke it, you bought it.

    Google “rape of the Sabine women”

    Rape didn’t use to mean (at least not exclusively) “sexual assault”

  139. thank you Mr. newrouter that will help plus i’ll find a youtube

    i’m pretty sure the resolve carpet cleaner took care of a lot of the whole mold issue

    is what I’m gonna tell myself for now

  140. the tool to take off the nut holding the faucet to the sink

    A gizmo called a basin wrench that’ll make things easier.

  141. So, on the one hand they’re too fragile and immature to be trusted to have sex, and yet on the other hand they’re expected to make adult-quality decisions?
    Pick a position and stick to it.

    It seems to me that the adult-quality decision in this instance is an acceptance on the part of that fourteen year old that he or she is too fragile and immature to be trusted to have sex.

    If we still had the same kind of society we had a hundred years ago, I might feel differently about applying hundred year old standards to the question of consent.

  142. SBP

    I don’t understand what the issue is that you’re arguing in support of? That parents of a 14 y/o shouldn’t object to having an 18 or 28 or 38 y/o sexual partner (regardless of sex) as long as the 14 y/o is “consenting”?

    How far down the age ladder do we go? Menarche is quite common at 10 or 11 these days. Just make sure that 5th grader has a Norplant and a lunchbox of condoms?

  143. Me, I hate plumbing. If Hubs wasn’t so handy I’d have the Yellow Pages out and send the bill to the landlord.

    If you make a Big Deal about the mold, the plumber can fix it. Then you get a can of Kilz and a paintbrush and paint under the sink so it never comes back.

  144. plumber’s putty, teflon tape, 20? flex connections w 3/8 fit(check the shut off might be 1/2?) and get the tool to take off the nut holding the faucet to the sink.

    Heh. Where were you when I did this the first time, nr?

  145. Female plumbing is pretty strange, whereas male plumbing is more or less fire and forget.

  146. ok i’ll get a basin wrench at the true value and a breathing mask thing for when I go under the sink to turn the… valve things

  147. Ain’t it the truth?

  148. sounds to me like at most all that’s needed here is a restraining order

    with respect to our lesbian friends

    everyone involved sounds ready to get on with their life so they should get on with the gittin on I think

  149. The cure for mold is watering down some bleach in a spray bottle. End of symptom.

    The real problem is that you maybe have a leak somewhere. It might just be that your sink drain has a leaky old gasket.

  150. plus you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube which means you best get to brushing

    chop chop

  151. People that think it’s OK to violate a 14 year old probably wouldn’t feel much obligation to honor a restraining order.

    The parents told Hunt to stay away twice (allegedly).

  152. on plumber’s putty , roll it thin. you’re forming a seal not a connection.

  153. thank you very much I am all over the bleach thing tomorrow I just need a spray bottle

    this all started cause the sink had a way bad leak but it was all running back towards the wall and down into the parking garage so i had no idea

    so now there’s just a drip under the sink, and it gets caught by an empty yogurt container, but it doesn’t accumulate very much at all – and probably none of it would ever be a problem at all if I didn’t run my water so much

  154. Mr. Lee none of this is any of our business it shouldn’t be a public thing

    it’s so indecent how you Americans are to your kids – making fodder of their youthful foibles just for to nourish your depraved and never-sated media

  155. I’m really starting to get a sick feeling about this whole gyts and the boy scouts thing. I appears some people think you’re never too young for the gay sex…

  156. “A gizmo called a basin wrench that’ll make things easier.”

    danke schön

  157. oh look i copied and pasted umlats

  158. It’s the business of everyone that has a young daughter.

    Or grand daughter.

    Or Niece.

    You rapist accommodating child fucker.

  159. “so now there’s just a drip under the sink”

    from the supply or the drain. real bitter clingers want to know.

  160. Oh hell, it’s the business of anyone with a child in this brave new gay promoting culture of ours.

  161. Why the hell is Sandusky in Prison?

  162. i can’t figure it out Mr. newrouter it’s so slow…and I don’t want to linger down there with the pernicious spores

    Mr. Lee I’m like the most not rapist-accommodating child fucker you could ever hope to meet. But c’mon this wasn’t rape this was teenagers in love.

    It happens, bless their hearts.

    The publicity and the mortifyingly circus-like freak-out that their parents and the rest of America is having is doing far far far more damage to these kids than anything they did to each other.

    Can you imagine?

  163. Mr. Lee none of this is any of our business it shouldn’t be a public thing
    it’s so indecent how you Americans are to your kids – making fodder of their youthful foibles just for to nourish your depraved and never-sated media

    This is no big deal because we think 14 year olds are old enough to make these decisions for themselves —and bear the consequences, or this is no big deal because in this particular instance the 14 year old can’t be impregnated?

    I wouldn’t want to venture a guess at a number, but I’m willing to assert that a not insignificant number of young heterosexual males are on the sex offender registry because of similiar youthful foibles.

  164. “i can’t figure it out Mr. newrouter it’s so slow”

    that be drain. the supply side @ 80 psi would leak leak

  165. um

    not (rapist-accommodating child fucker)

    is how that should read

  166. from the supply or the drain. real bitter clingers want to know.

    Man, we’re on the same page tonight, nr.

    A neighbor can tell me his wife is dealing crank and I want to change the subject but if his lights keep flickering for no reason or he’s hearing a dripping noise then THIS PROBLEM MUST BE SOLVED.

  167. On what grounds would the restraining order be requested?

    or granted?

    From what i have read the defendant wants to go to trial. Maybe go for jury nullification. Maybe just go for the headlines. Who knows.

  168. hmmm it seems to leak more when the dishwasher is running

    the sink and the dishwasher have this bizarre and mysterious symbiotic relationship that I’ve never understood

  169. blockquote is my enemy it seems

  170. The publicity and the mortifyingly circus-like freak-out that their parents and the rest of America is having is doing far far far more damage to these kids than anything they did to each other.

    Are you a licensed psychiatrist, or do you just play one as an anonymous internet commenter?

    Did you catch the kid on TV a week or so ago, the one that Michael Jackson bought? He says he’s still messed up because of all the perversion he went through.

  171. “hmmm it seems to leak more when the dishwasher is running”

    drain problem no? maybe tighten them up. the dish stuff. @3000 miles my charge is $0.05/mile!

  172. I’m really starting to get a sick feeling about this whole gyts and the boy scouts thing. I appears some people think you’re never too young for the gay sex…

    I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I worked several summers at a Boy Scout camp in the late 80s/early 90s. The staff spent more time training to deal with sex abuse (broadly speaking here —innappropriate behavior of a sexual nature, let’s say) than emergency first aid.

    You’re right to feel sick.

  173. I have no idea Mr. BT but she shouldn’t be facing 15 years of being an imprisoned ward of the state that’s just crazy and silly and sad

    and if it happens man there’s some people who are gonna have some very very screwed up karma to where damn skippy you can sure as hell bet they’ll be having epiphanies later about how they shoulda done the right thing by that lesbian chick

    but by then it will be too late

    I’m glad it’s not my problem

  174. thank you Mr. newrouter I will look at the drain and check

    but I have no idea what to do if I find a leak

    you know it’s still possibly in the cards I can give up this place put my stuff in storage and split my year between a furnished place in burbank and… elsewhere

  175. I heard that bit Rush did about the next thing being a push for child sex, and thought he was jumping the gun a bit. I figured that was maybe third or fourth in order for the progg pervs.

    Boy was I wrong.

  176. adolph hitler is gay

  177. same wit pol pot, mao, and stalin

  178. Statutory rape isn’t statutory rape when it’s young lesbians in lurv. What comes next? I wonder.

  179. My understanding is she was offered a plea bargain that would have made the whole thing pretty much go away, at least the jail time and the sex offender registry.

    I wonder if the folks using her as a pawn are considering that, karma wise.

  180. “but I have no idea what to do if I find a leak”

    grab the throbbing unit and tighten it. easy peasy.

  181. not everything is a slippery slope good lord and not everything needs to involve intervention by the state

    as silly as that sounds in barack obama’s america it’s still true

  182. I heard that bit Rush did about the next thing being a push for child sex, and thought he was jumping the gun a bit. I figured that was maybe third or fourth in order for the progg pervs.
    Boy was I wrong.

    If Tammy Bruce is right, damaged people like to create more damaged people so that damaged will eventually be the new normal.

    “Deranged” might fit in place of “damaged,” too.

  183. This plumbing thread is getting dangerously off topic.

    But, towards this tangent, I’ve experienced similar strangeness with tutoring I’ve done. Tutoring teenage girls I’d be a bit pissed if there was this presumption that I couldn’t control myself* but when you hear you shouldn’t be alone with teenage boys?

    That’s just wacko bird.

    *I do think it’s a prudent idea to not close doors or go away to other places and all that.

  184. there’s one of them cases going on right now in these sick little united states of failmerica where people are going to lose their god-given freedom for… selling other people raw milk

    now please tell me that isn’t fucked up

    if only the conservativista people treated freedom as if it were even remotely the same precious and vulnerable treasure they consider the fetuses to be

    but alas

    15 years for something intimate and personal that was never supposed to be anybody else’s goddamn business is just freaky

  185. not everything is a slippery slope good lord and not everything needs to involve intervention by the state

    In this case, intervention by the state is called public justice, and it’s preferable to private. Insofar as the public weal is concerned, that is.

    If the girls were 14 and 16, or 16 and 18, I might be more inclined to your point of view. But the window for the restraining order closed when the 14 year old ran away to spend the night with the 18 year old.

  186. You know what does need intervention by the state? Even in Obamas America? Crimes.

    Otherwise the childs parent would be obligated to kill the child rapist, and that wouldn’t be civilized.

  187. “This plumbing thread is getting dangerously off topic.”

    some havel for a sat. nite:

    The bill is not long in coming. He will be relieved of his post as manager of the shop and transferred to the warehouse. His pay will be reduced. His hopes for a holiday in Bulgaria will evaporate. His children’s access to higher education will be threatened. His superiors will harass him and his fellow workers will wonder about him. Most of those who apply these sanctions, however, will not do so from any authentic inner conviction but simply under pressure from conditions, the same conditions that once pressured the greengrocer to display the official slogans. They will persecute the greengrocer either because it is expected of them, or to demonstrate their loyalty, or simply as part of the general panorama, to which belongs an awareness that this is how situations of this sort are dealt with, that this, in fact, is how things are always done, particularly if one is not to become suspect oneself. The executors, therefore, behave essentially like everyone else, to a greater or lesser degree: as components of the post-totalitarian system, as agents of its automatism, as petty instruments of the social auto-totality.

    link

  188. oh, Ernst beat me to the uncivilized thing.

    Also, I agree about the age thing. One teen age year is like ten post teen age years, when it comes to maturity.

    Let’s also not forget, the first sex act took place in a bathroom stall at school. That hardly sounds like private, intimate love to me. More like a lusty adult taking advantage of a youngster with problems, Sandusky style.

  189. and if the intervention weren’t so puritanically nuclear Mr. Ernst I might could be persuaded to make noises about how this is all very very serious

    but c’mon this is just americans getting themselves in a tizzy about sex

    this was not rape this was not rape this was not rape

    I never been raped my whole life but I know the difference

  190. “this was not rape this was not rape this was not rape”

    so says roman the polack

  191. Florida law says you are wrong, it is rape. And if you ever had a troubled 14 year old, you would know the difference between consensual and rape.

  192. but c’mon this is just americans getting themselves in a tizzy about sex

    No this is an interest group using the defendant as a pawn.

  193. Also, the rapist turned down a deal for probation, so if she gets 15 it’ll be on her, no one else.

    She’s old enough to make that call, and take the consequences, right?

  194. teens do sex things in odd place Mr. Ernst cause of they don’t have their own apartments with leaky sinks and mold issues

    but this was not rape and if it was rape then we need a more better word for real actual rape

  195. Sorta depends what we mean by rape. Statutory rape gets blurry by way of consent.

    It doesn’t get fuzzy in that it oftentimes provokes very strong KILL impulses from family members.

    That’s an issue. It’s the very sort of human issue that law is all about when properly understood.

  196. Take the responsibility I mean…

  197. Mr. lee if this lil girl gets put in the slammer for 15 years it will be on the state of florida (a state what knows far more better than most how to abuse themselves some kids)

  198. Tutoring teenage girls I’d be a bit pissed if there was this presumption that I couldn’t control myself* but when you hear you shouldn’t be alone with teenage boys?

    In the case of the BSA, the school grade range is from fifth grade to twelfth grade (what is that age range? 10 to 18?) So, as I am want to ask my (few) liberal acquaintances, would you really be comfortable with your twelve year old daughter going away for a week with 15, 16, 17 year old boys?

    As for the adult staff, never be alone (in any even potentially ambiguous situation) with a minor was more or less the advice.

  199. In noble savage societies we find that they’re fairly lax and don’t have strong rules about this and that thing but they seem to have murder rates which on a per capita basis dwarf Chicago during a hot summer during a turf war.

    Law is about this very thing. This isn’t frivolous. It’s the whole point.

  200. 15 years for something intimate and personal that was never supposed to be anybody else’s goddamn business is just freaky

    14 year olds don’t get to be intimate and personal.

  201. According to the other McCain, Florida law specifically rejects consent from consideration in statuary rape cases.

  202. as a former 14 year old I can attest that I was 14 once and so was “JD” and she was fucking “PP” who was dumb dumb dumb but he was also rich rich rich and they dated and fucked and fucked and dated all through her high school/his futile attempts to conquer community college but then she ended up marrying an alcoholic chemical engineer with a PhD

    and you know what she was a good person then and she’s a good person now

    just kinda chubby now bless her heart

  203. hard to lose that baby weight

  204. Bullshit happyfeet. She rejected the plea bargain. If she’s old enough to do the crime, she’s old enough to do the time.

    Something tells me if this Hunt chick was a big hulking boy-looking 18 year old bull dyke instead of a lipstick lesbian, your attitude would be different.

    Bigot.

  205. teens do sex things in odd place Mr. Ernst[.]

    but this was not rape and if it was rape then we need a more better word for real actual rape.

    14 year olds aren’t allowed to do sex things with 18 year olds in any place. It’s incumbent upon the 18 year old to know that.

    And this was statutory rape.

    Sorta depends what we mean by rape. Statutory rape gets blurry by way of consent.

    I respectfully disagree, bh. 14 year olds aren’t allowed to consent to sex.

  206. Mr. lee if this lil girl gets put in the slammer for 15 years it will be on the state of florida (a state what knows far more better than most how to abuse themselves some kids)

    She’s not a little girl. She’s an adult.

  207. 15 years of your one god-given life should mean something in this world

    in america though it doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot is what we learn from these sorts of cases

    when you think of what the older one could do in the next 15 years and when you think how NOT in a position our brokedick little piss-ant country is to be pissing away human resources

    it make you wanna cry

    btw speaking of Florida google “The Hammocks” … it’s kinda on my “maybe I might could move there” list

    it’s like 80% hispanic and abuts right up against the everglades and you can get a 5-bedroom house for like 350

  208. I was 14 once and so was “JD” and she was fucking “PP” … all through her high school/his futile attempts to conquer community college[.]

    Was PP 18 when he started balling JD?

  209. speaking of florida politics who’s this bald-assed freak tool what shakes hands without making eye contact?

    I’m for sure not voting for him

  210. yes PP was 18

    but he was mentally 14 and everyone knew it cause he was stupid

    JD’s mom and dad knew it PP’s mom and dad knew it the whole goddamn (dark gothic southern texas) town knew it

  211. I respectfully disagree, bh. 14 year olds aren’t allowed to consent to sex.

    I hear what you’re saying and I agree with what I think your central thrust is.

    Two points. First, I’ve always taken the primary definition of rape as we use it to mean “without consent”. When the younger one actively takes part, we’re talking about their ability to know what they’re doing. That’s what I mean by blurry. Second, we really would be looking at this differently if we were talking about two 14 yr olds. The salient aspect is legalistically “statutory” or maybe in the more common speech something like the severe corruption of a minor.

    As a charge, statutory rape fits and is proper. As to the moral offense? It’s more like the corruption of a minor with a side order of familial inducement to murder.

  212. 15 years of your one god-given life should mean something in this world

    One of the things it means is you don’t go muff diving on 14 year old if your 18.

  213. is 15 years of incarceration actually adequate to pay for the crimes of the older lesbian chick what made sex with the 14 year old lesbian chick or would 20 years be more fitting to the crime?

    I just worry that in 20 years our sad-ass brokedick fascist lil republic won’t have enough money to give the now-38 year old uneducated ex-felon no-work-history lesbian chick food stamps and she might could starve.

    So maybe 15 years is indeed just.

  214. Then PP is lucky JD’s parents were more understanding than I would be. At the risk of being presumptuous, maybe JD’s folks were hoping she’d fuck her way into some of PP’s family money.

    Also, we’re back to the now discredited community standard standard that got tossed when (I forget the sodomy case) got overturned.

    So maybe Scalia wasn’t such a reactionary dinosaur after all.

  215. pro-tip for lengthily-incarcerated 18-year-old lesbians: l’oreal hydra-renewal

    for reals they’ll never believe you spent the last 15 years of your one god-given life in the florida state pen for getting jiggy with your younger lesbian lover in a public high school bathroom

  216. I think there’s very few HS seniors that aren’t aware of the pitfalls in sticking things in an 8th graders vagina. I mean, it’s almost instinctive even. It isn’t like there needed to be special instruction.

    At least that’s the way it was at my HS, not being a dark gothic southern Texas town or anything…

  217. JD’s dad was/is a rich drunk and her mom was a mousey bitch what’s just now this year doing stuff like working it in the local arts council/ladies’ study clubs scene – the whole ladies who lunch/junior league for old hoochies thing – but not doing it particularly well

    but then most of her life she was only allowed out at the annual Ducks Unlimited fundraiser ball thingy

    it’s all so dark there

  218. Again happyfeet, she turned down a plea bargain giving her zero time in lock-up, only probation. She turned it down.

    How is her turning down probation anyone else’s fault?

  219. we really would be looking at this differently if we were talking about two 14 yr olds

    That’s where mens rea comes in, I would guess. And non-judicial sanctions are hopefully sufficient to curtail the problem behavior.

  220. is 15 years of incarceration actually adequate to pay for the crimes of the older lesbian chick what made sex with the 14 year old lesbian chick or would 20 years be more fitting to the crime?

    If 15 is good enough for straights, according to the state of Florida, it’s good enough for queers,

    I reckon.

  221. Mr. Lee the catcher in the rye is supposed to catch the lil kids including the lesbian kids before they run off the cliff

    where is the catcher in the rye in this situation I ask you?

    my dad was a good catcher in the rye with kids he used to adjudicate a lot of truancy cases

    he taught me a lot about how important it is to salvage the lives of kids

    i mean c’mon is there really any question but that older lesbian chick will look back on all this in 3, 5, 7 years and think omg I was such a tard

    but by then she should have a job and will be worrying about decorating her first condo, maybe in The Hammocks, and she might could have a boyfriend or a girlfriend and she knows she needs a new car but she knows she probably shouldn’t buy a new one cause they depreciate so much when you drive them off the lot and she wants to move but she’s afraid to go too far cause she’s pretty sure her mom has early-onset alzheimer’s and she wants to be there to take care of her

  222. Besides, maybe her gamble will pay off, and she’ll get a jury of happyfeets, who say “not guilty”

    Then the president will call and congratulate her, and her and her new 14 year old lesbian lover (because the other one will be an old lady of 17 by then, and no longer desirable) can start a reality TV show called My Young Lesbian Lover, which will give even that Duck Dynasty show a run for their money in ratings I bet.

  223. Yeah she should have taken the deal.

    But she was seduced by the celebrity and bright lights of being the cause du jour.

  224. i bet if her jury is made up of the florida georgia line guys they let her go too cause of baby you a song you make me wanna roll my winders down and croooooooooooze

  225. Mr. lee you know what are tasty? mashed potatoes with lots of butter

    I can hook you up

  226. i look at that picture on drudge and think for reals?

    they spelled jewelry right?

    maybe this chris christie is the real deal

  227. The kid who’s life needs salvaging is the 14 year old. The 18 year old is the adult who made a number of adult decisions, including the decision to go to trial.

    So I think SBP has it somewhat backwards. The problem isn’t that we treat sexually mature adolescents like children, instead of like the adults they would have been treated like back when ragtime was all the rage; it’s that we’ve extended adolescence (neither child, nor yet fully adult) damn near into the thirties.

  228. Yeah, like I didn’t know that, ya dork.

  229. hello Mr. Ernst

    is the 14 year old more damagered by the consensual lesbian sexplay or by her parents turning her into a national spectacle?

    it’s so not-lutheran, how these people are

  230. the young girls parents are the bad ones in this now?

    You are a real twisted dick happyfeet.

  231. it just goes to show you, once again

    florida is not the south

    it’s just not

    it has splatches, sure – but mostly up north and down the middle, but even then it’s polluted by the gobs of retired pensioner people

    i think if you’re from there you know how to navigate to where you can still keep it real

    ok yeah I kinda want to move there

    it’s a very interesting place

  232. Blame the parents. That’s rich.

    Let’s blame The Vagina Monologues while we’re at it.

    One day she invites me into her car . . . she kisses me and tells me to relax . . . and the pretty lady makes me a drink. . . . The alcohol has gone to my head and I’m loose and ready . . . she gently and slowly lays me out on the bed.

    (excerpt from Tammy Bruce, The Death of Right and Wrong, 253.

  233. i don’t hang out with people who quote the vagina monologues but because I’ve known you a long time I’m going to make an exception to where we pretend this never happened

  234. By the way, “the pretty lady” character is 24, and the narrator 13 (later changed
    to 16 for the book, according to Bruce).

    “Now people say it was a kind of rape . . . Well, I say, if it was rape, it was a good rape.”

  235. I’m not actually quoting The Vagina Monologues, I’m quoting Tammy Bruce quoting The Vagina Monologues, so that makes it okay. Unless Bruce has misquoted it.

  236. is the 14 year old more damagered by the consensual lesbian sexplay or by her parents turning her into a national spectacle?

    Also, I’m pretty sure it was Hunt and her family that turned the 14 year old into a national spectacle by playing the dyke and religious bigotry cards.

    Ain’t love grand?

  237. i have no idea whatsoever how it is this situation has came to my attention i just know it never should have Mr. Ernst

  238. lift high the cross the love of christ proclaims til all the world adore His sacred name I think and we do not accomplish this by taking away 15 years of a wee small lesbian girl’s freedom, do we?

    no we do not

  239. To this:

    In noble savage societies we find that they’re fairly lax and don’t have strong rules about this and that thing but they seem to have murder rates which on a per capita basis dwarf Chicago during a hot summer during a turf war.

    These arguments jibe with the data reported by the Harvard neuropsychologist Steven Pinker in his 2011 book The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined (Viking). After examining evidence from 20 sets of archaeological data from all over the world ranging from 14,000 to 700 years old, Pinker reported that societies were very dangerous, with the percentage of human deaths attributed to violence ranging from 60 to 15 percent. Similarly, data from 27 stateless societies studied by modern ethnographers found war deaths averaged 500 per 100,000 people, whereas all deaths from wars, genocides, and man-made famines in modern societies in the 20th century amount to a mere 60 to per 100,000.

    “It may astonish you readers, as it initially astonished me,” Diamond writes, “to learn that trench warfare, machine guns, napalm, atomic bombs, artillery, and submarine torpedoes produce time-averaged war-related death tolls so much lower than those from spears, arrows, and clubs.” So how can this be? Because “state warfare is an intermittent exceptional condition, while tribal warfare is virtually continuous.”

  240. Those rates seem to be per year.

  241. i have no idea whatsoever how it is this situation has came to my attention i just know it never should have Mr. Ernst

    Well, Mr. Marketing, perhaps you should figure out who started the rallies and the social media campaigns. There might be a clue.

  242. She’s not a little girl. She’s an adult.

    Not only that, she is a sexual predator. Sexual predators belong in jail and deserve to have their futures ruined as they would ruin the innocence of children.

  243. is the 14 year old more damagered by the consensual lesbian sexplay or by her parents turning her into a national spectacle?

    Hey griefer, it was Kate’s parents who went public.

    Kate, who up until this bathroom sex encounter, has always been “dating” boys.

    Even the DailyKos author admits she was snookered by the slander from Kate’s parents and has withdrawn her FreeKate petition

  244. omg none of this is any of my business

  245. You made it your business by championing the lesbian rapist against the laws of the state of Florida.

    She was offered a righteous deal and turned it down. Now she can tell it to the Judge and/or jury.

  246. we have to do unto other people’s kids as we would have done unto our own kids and this fairly benign situation involving consensual sex among teenagers in love has spiraled out of all reason and good sense like a shirley jackson short story

    it’s not america and it’s not pro-biotic and nobody’s gonna be the better for it and florida should stop being so tarded and focus on real actual problems like maybe building a desalination plant or working on more offshore oil exploration

    also they need to rethink the whole deal where people go to jail for fondling manatees it’s tarded

  247. Bullshit. If my 17 year old son had sex with a 13 year old girl in a high school bathroom, he’d be out at the Youth Camp breaking rocks or whatever it is they make them do. Plus, he’d have to revisit this indiscretion to have it sealed as a juvenile record so he’d still be eligible for Federal student aid for college or if he wished to joined the Armed Forces or pretty much any job that takes a security clearance.

    Actions have consequences. Shielding the little bastards from them does no one any favors. Best to nip that proclivity to law-breaking in the bud before someone gets killed.

  248. they are not little bastards they just high school kids with clean records what should have futures as bright as their smiles

    i have no problem with just telling everybody involved to shut up go home and have a nice life

  249. who needs to get caught having sex in a high school bathroom is colin powell then we can lock that coward-assed racist piece of shit away and his crazy loony bitch wife can stay home and rub bisquick all over the cat

  250. Don’t ever have any kids, happy.

  251. i would be an awesome dad i really would i would quit my job and just be a dad full time

    we’d have to move somewheres cheaper though

    somewheres where they serve boiled peabnuts in the grocery store and I could say hey go get daddy some boiled peabnuts and they could just walk down the street and get me some while i worked in the yard

  252. they are not little bastards they just high school kids with clean records what should have futures as bright as their smiles

    i have no problem with just telling everybody involved to shut up go home and have a nice life

    The chance for that to happen disappeared when the plea deal was turned down.

    Seems at least one high school kid with a clean record and a future as bright as her smile listened to the wrong people. And i wonder where those people will be 5 years from now when the Hunt girl tries to pick up the pieces of her life.

  253. now it’s late night underneaf the moonlight errybody’s feelin right and sippin on a bud light go on drop your tailgate turn up your radio I’m a build a bonfire you can make yourself at home especially kaitlin (sp?) damn you been through a hard time girlfriend

    it’s a hard-assed mean son of a bitch country we got here ain’t it

    and kaitlin would say yup it sure is

    i would say well i remember when it used to be a country of people what prized freedom immensely and kaitlin would look at me with that blank look she gets sometimes

  254. Probably get those peanuts here.

  255. i tried to add that to my cloud but they don’t have it

  256. ok i got that one i like how he says “salt peanuts” and everyone claps

    the one i got though is one of them ones what screws up your cloud and you have to go in and edit the songs to where they all fall under one artist

  257. Back in 1997, Theodore Dalrymple made what I think* is a convincing arguement against the libertarian or rather, utilitarian case for legalizing drugs that I think is relevant here. Not least because it blows happyfeet’s argument, such as it is, out of the water.

    The idea that freedom is merely the ability to act upon one’s whims is surely very thin and hardly begins to capture the complexities of human existence; a man whose appetite is his law strikes us not as liberated but enslaved. And when such a narrowly conceived freedom is made the touchstone of public policy, a dissolution of society is bound to follow. No culture that makes publicly sanctioned self-indulgence its highest good can long survive: a radical egotism is bound to ensue, in which any limitations upon personal behavior are experienced as infringements of basic rights. Distinctions between the important and the trivial, between the freedom to criticize received ideas and the freedom to take LSD [or in this instance, to perform a sex act on a minor in a restroom stall, and that's just for starters –E. S.], are precisely the standards that keep societies from barbarism. [emphases added]

    Read the whole thing, as they say.

    Then read All Sex, All the Time.

  258. Hobbes seemed to have suggested there simply is no summum bonum, I believe, no sucha thing at all. Of course too, he has been accused of attempting to wed hedonism to modern material science, so if that hypothesis is correct, perhaps there’s little wonder that he’d reject a highest good as such?

  259. I just love Dalrymple. He has scads of empirical evidence to back up his POV, including years of working in UK prisons as a staff psychiatrist that totally rips the mask off the feel-good game the Left is running on us.

  260. *Of course I’d think that, wouldn’t I?

    Is what I forgot to add to the bottom of my last post.

  261. “Me, I hate plumbing. If Hubs wasn’t so handy I’d have the Yellow Pages out and send the bill to the landlord.”

    leigh, I got an Amercan Home Shield Warranty and they replaced my master bathroom faucet this Friday…. cheaper than buying 3 faucets not to mention water damage trying to fix it myself….

  262. Pingback: FMJRA 2.0: Memorial Day Delayed Edition : The Other McCain

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