Brian McLaren, “My Take: It’s time for Islamophobic evangelicals to choose”:
I was raised as an evangelical Christian in America, and any discussion of Christian-Jewish-Muslim relations around the world must include the phenomenon of American Islamophobia, for which large sectors of evangelical Christianity in America serve as a greenhouse.
At a time when U.S. embassies are being attacked and when people are getting killed over an offensive, adolescent and puerile film targeting Islam – beyond pathetic in its tawdriness – we must begin to own up to the reality of evangelical Islamaphobia.
[…]
Yes, “they” – the tiny minority of Muslims who turn piety into violence – have big problems of their own. But the way of Christ requires all who claim to be Christians to examine our own eyes for planks before trying to perform first aid on the eyes of others. We must admit that we have our own tiny minority whose message and methods we have not firmly, unitedly and publicly repudiated and rejected.
To choose the way of Christ is not appeasement. It is not being a “sympathizer.”
The way of Christ is a gentle strength that transcends the vicious cycles of offense-outrage-revenge.
As a non-evangelical, my take is that Mr McLaren is a self-righteous tool for statism camouflaging himself as a religious leader. He’s a leftist first. Everything else is but a useful accessory.
By their words shall you know them.
(h/t TerryH)
Agreed that McLaren is a self-righteous tool.
Evangelicals, while nice people in general, lack doctrine and central tenets of faith. Much like non-denominational Christians, they pick and choose among scripture for their various creeds.
We have Catholics who are like that, as well. They are called cafeteria Catholics or CINOs.
The aforementioned groups are also predominately Leftists and need to get their house in order. /rant
I never heard of Brian McLaren.
“Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Christian Identity in a Multi-Faith World”
Meh.
The chief evangelical “Islamophobe” spoke and had something to say to the Muslim about reason in contradistinction to conversion by the sword.
He’s a leftist first. Everything else is but a useful accessory.
Yep, had to repeat that again because it is so easily forgotten
In other words…we were asking for it
Baby, why do you make me hit you baby? You know I don’t want to.
the tiny minority of Muslims who turn piety into violence
Right.
Meanwhile in the middle of the McLaren piece is a link to this.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/ambassadors-killing-shines-light-on-muslim-sensitivities-around-prophet-mohammed/
Violence over depictions of the Prophet Mohammed may mystify many non-Muslims, but it speaks to a central tenet of Islam: that the Prophet was a man, not God, and that portraying him threatens to lead to worshiping a human instead of Allah.
“It’s all rooted in the notion of idol worship,” says Akbar Ahmed, who chairs the Islamic Studies department at American University. “In Islam, the notion of God versus any depiction of God or any sacred figure is very strong.”
“The Prophet himself was aware that if people saw his face portrayed by people, they would soon start worshiping him,” Ahmed says. “So he himself spoke against such images, saying ‘I’m just a man.’”
How in the hell is any one expected to reason with that kind of nonsense?
That British TV production on the history of Islam, the private screening of which was cancelled due to Muslim complaint and threat? You can watch it here. It’s 71 mins.
Islam: The Untold Story
Evangelicals are probably the only group in America (besides Republicans) who fervently support Israel against her enemies.
In return for having a profound concern for the fate of the Jews in the Middle East, Evangelicals are to be denounced as evil haters of Muslims.
Got it!
I’m sorry, isn’t it Muslims rioting all across the Middle East and North Africa?
And this tool is blaming evangelical Christians in the U.S.? Does he really think any of these rioters have the first clue who are what evangelicals are up to in the U.S.?
I suggest he go to Libya (or Sudan, Egypt, etc.) and demonstrate “gentle strength” in person and then get back to us on who’s causing the problem.
“Who you gonna believe, me, your faithful, hard working, honest, non-political cabinet official, or some filthy lying Arab sand rat?”
– Maybe its all just a John Kerry moment. They were premeditated, but that was before they weren’t. Does the WH have a clue as to how stupid this sort of stupid makes them look. Who do they imagine buys this spin. Its got to be an accident, a simple misunderstanding. After all, his Brownwss is the foreign policy genios of the world.
– More details emerge on the ‘not premeditated, premeditated’ Libyan consulate attack.
“Evangelicals, while nice people in general, lack doctrine and central tenets of faith. ” You should keep flogging that mule, I think. Smuggness looks good on you, it makes my asss look fat, though. “Much like non-denominational Christians, they pick and choose among scripture for their various creeds.” You don’t get out much, do you?
this McClaren guy is another in theline who say “‘I’ve always voted Republican but so-and-so is far too right wng, etc.” No clue.
Evangelicals do in fact have central tenets of our faith: By grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and spirit, and love our neighbors as ourselves. We dstrust the traditions of men, and believe in the authority of scripture. Google or Bing the “four spiritual laws” for the best summary I’ve seen.
One problem evangelicals have is that we don’t have any say over who gets to call themselves an evangelical. There are also some, myself included, who don’t always live up to our calling.
One reason I really like Jeff G is that he emphasizes the critical importance of the intent of the author over what words can be construed to say. That appeals to the Southern Baptist in me. People can and do twist the Bible to get all different kinds of meanings from what’s there, but in the end, the only thing that will matter is what the Author meant. /soapbox
Gulermo – Obviously, the fact that some tool says he was raised as an evangelical means that (a) he really is an evangelical and (b) whatever he says IS what all evangelicals think.
If you were as sophisticated as leigh/Peggy you’d understand that.
Who’s acting smug here, Gulermo? It isn’t me.
I’m related to a load of tent revival style preachers. I have empirical evidence to support my views.
You’re talking out your ass leigh, quit digging.
Suit yourself, Lee. Have a blessed day.
As for the “gentle” Christ, one needs to remember the apostles walked around armed with swords, and Jesus took a whip to the merchants and money changers in the temple.
He also mercilessly mocked the religious leaders of His day, calling them all kinda names.
Jesus is no pussy, whoa to anyone that treats Him as such…
No need to revisit 1054, much less the whole of the 1600s.
Woe to anyone who misspells “woe.”
“Who’s acting smug here, Gulermo? It isn’t me. ” Oh sure you are; why be shy about. Maybe you’re right, it isn’t smugness, maybe it is something much worse? I am willing to to listen to anexplanation, if you feel motivated.
“I’m related to a load of tent revival style preachers. I have empirical evidence to support my views.” The plural of anecdote is NOT data, as you very well know. Opinion is just that and you are welcome to yours. My Dad used to say “Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one; not all are worth looking at, however.”
I live in a 97% Roman Catholic nation and I would NEVER publicly discuss what are what I consider the failings of that particular faith. What do you think The Christ was referring to when he said not to judge?
Gangs.
“I don’t give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.” -Mark Twain
“It is a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word.”
– Andrew Jackson
“I only got two cheeks, chief. The next slap costs you an arm.”
I would NEVER publicly discuss what are what I consider the failings of that particular faith.
Prideful much?
geoffb, I’ve seen kids wearing rosaries as necklaces in urban areas. I think the school is probably onto something with the claim about gang affiliation. I carry my rosary in a small pouch in my pocketbook.
Religious medals are worn as jewelry, not rosaries.
“Prideful much?” You willfully miss the point. You don’t know me. It is not my intention or desire to instruct you with regard to Religion; every man must find his own way.
One commenter states an opinion about another faith.
Second commenter takes offense and the argument heats up.
Can’t we leave that shit to the Muslims?
No kidding, McGehee.
I will heed your wise words.
I commented at the site of the article and asked if mr. mcclaren would be willing to go to any of the muslims states, unannounced and unguarded and preach the salvation of jesus on a street corner.
Since one of the prime directives of christianity is the spreading of the gospel, it is something that most christians feel necessary to do for at least some part of their day/life. It’s almost a definition of the evangelical movement (it is).
If he survives that exercise then I may reconsider my viewpoint towards some Muslims.
Until then, it’s not a phobia if they’ve declared that they will kill you for professing any belief other than Islam.
Also note; he says “I was raised an evangelical christian”.
At no point does he declare himself to be a christian.
So, Jeff G. you have pretty much accurately described mr. mcclaren.
My point at 1:11 also.
I would take issue with the characterization.
It’s more like:
Also, debating the tenets of Christianity proceeded the Muslim faith by some centuries (see: Galatians), and will always be a characteristic of a faith as personal as accepting the living savior into your heart, such as Christianity is.
Deal.
“Second commenter [objects to the stereotype of his faith], and the argument heats [gauntlet is picked] up.” Not my faith.
“Can’t we leave that shit to the Muslims?” What, if anything, do you think leigh was doing.
McLaren is an “expert” on the “emerging church.” Emerging from what would be a good question for him. This is formerly known as the “Postmodern Church.” He has several books out on the subject.
I know that you address postmodernism all over the place here, but McLaren and others have basically surrendered Christianity to Postmodernism. We are seeing a lot of the fruit of that.
Except for those of us who are Evangelical Islamophobes. McLaren is not too kind to those who have not reached his “enlightened status.”
Which is to say that I often find the man totally in the dark.
McClaren subscribes to the “I have faith that they’ll eat me last because I’ve been so accepting and servile to their murderous savagery”.
Jesus couldn’t be reached for comment over such cowardice by a supposed “Christian”.
jcw46-right you are.
McLaren gives up too many points from Christian Orthodoxy (his “A Generous Orthodoxy” is far too generous with very little Orthodoxy) in his quest to change the church to fit the people. Not sure that such is the goal of the church in the first place, but that hasn’t stopped McLaren.
He’s probably a little miffed that his latest book was published and released the day all of this shit went down. Thus tainting and overshadowing the release of his ground breaking tome. Poor fellow. Yep, 09/11/2012 was the release date.
Jeff is indeed correct that he is a full-on progressive, having a Kindle book “The Word of the Lord to Democrats” (it is supposedly fiction, which I find strangely appropriate). For Republicans, conservatives, and libertarians, McLaren has nothing.
McLaren is an evangelical who spends most of his time defining himself against other evangelicals, and from a liberal/progressive vantage point.
In other words, he’s the evangelical answer to David Frum.
And, yes, he’s an emergent, which is a distinctly creed-and-doctrine allergic form of evangelicalism. Not all evangelicals are, not by any stretch. But it’s safe to slap that tag on the emergents. Perhaps it’s more honest to describe the emergents as “post-evangelical.” They are certainly headed in that direction.
And when McLaren starts making a progressive readership squirm uncomfortably in its seats, I’ll start paying attention to him. As it is, he’s simply a professional heckler of orthodox evangelicals.
From JawaReport via Memri: Muhammed Al-Zawahiri, Brother of Al Qaeda Leader, Proposes ’10-Year Hudna’ To The West
To the gentleman in the white Stetson; in an ocean of ideas you either sink or swim on the merits of those ideas; propelled by your passion and convictions. Smug mockery of someone elses beliefs, because you can, is not the mark of an intelligent mind. Supporting the mockery is somewhat worse. You do her no favor, sir.
Google “hudna”.
Hudna is a strategic ceasefire usually proposed by the losing side so that they may rearm, rebuild, and recruit. However some Hudna’s have been more of a prelude to a ” just go home and we’ll say no more about it” offer when dealing with an exhausted enemy who would prefer to leave rather than continue the fight even if they are technically winning.
Fuck the Hudna. Fuck Al Queda. Keep grinding them down till the only leader’s they can find are stooges.
Jeanine Pirro has been slappin’ ’em around for all the right reasons.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/320283/disgrace-benghazi-mark-steyn
Steyn is writing “West Wing II” which should show up on cable around 2014.
“Submit damnit”
You sound like my wife.
Anybody point out yet that it’s probably not at all irrational to be afraid of people willing to kill over an “adolescent and puerile” film?
All two of them.
(Don’t mind me, I’m in a bad mood.)
Why is it always some vile, disgusting or deviant group that is a minority that gets the “phobe” added when anyone is disgusted or angry at their deviant and disgusting behavior?
How about the thousands of instances of ChristoPhobia?
Or Jewophobia?
Muslims commit these acts EVERYDAY sometimes killing those they PHOBE against.
Where’s the outcry against them and THEIR intolerance?
Why is it progressives see the positive in only those who espouse the negative?
Iran to target makers of anti-Islamic film
Big doings in Lebanon today.
I have no idea where that came from, or the point it was supposed to make, so I’ll pretty much have to don’t mind you…
Der Spiegel: Muslim Protests Show Limits of Free Speech
I’m beginning to think we need some ordnance to show the limits of Muslim rage.
Lk. 22:38 is what I had in mind.
“. . . the limits of Muslim rage.”
That’s adjacent to the problem Benedict seems to address. If the limits of Muslim rage are determined by Allah, and Allah all powerful all determining can reverse any course at any time, there simply are no effective limits to Muslim rage (at least from the point of view of Allahnic adherents).
We, on the other hand, merely go to war. Or not.
Don’t be silly Pablo, everyone knows the best way to handle a bully is with appeasement.
Give’em your lunch money, he’ll leave you alone…
It seems to me that Ms. Barnhardt has captured the essence of the situation.
“US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that American missions would remain on guard, though he hoped the worst of the violence had passed.”
“US Secretary of War Henry Lewis Stimson said that Pearl Harbor and other US installations across the Pacific would remain on guard, though he hoped the worst of the violence had passed.”
So, you’re saying that since they had two swords on hand that night, that somehow proves that is all any of the apostles ever had?
I don’t buy it. I think it shows having swords available was common for them. In any event, it puts the lie to Jesus being a non-confrontational pacifist.
I was being sarcastic beccause I was in a bad mood.
“The apostles went around armed with swords” L. said.
“Yeah,” E. retorted, “all two of them.”
Strategery > Hope.
MOAB = Glass
Yes, but we can accomplish said examination in about 0.1 seconds, and then go about pointing out our neighbor’s eye-planks with full acuity. And still be Christians!
Am I un-Christian for thinking this guy is a dick?
Ya gotta ask Jesus that. Personally, if I was worried about it, I’d go with crapweasle, just to be safe. = )
Meanwhile, my own church takes out advertising on the playbills of The Book of Mormon. When asked for their opinion on this, South Park creators said they’d never been concerned about the church’s response to the play.
because we mormons are terribly intolerant and might bring you jello or something
“jello or something”
Well jello, ok, we’ll assume it’s non-alchoholic, but “or something” is simply too indistinct! After all, napalm is a jelly.
Hey, we can play dueling Bible verses! My play is this:
“Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.”
A Leftist reviews the Seven Virtues:
Chastity: Proof that Christians hate wimminz. Proof that Christians hate anything fun. Really, everybody should just do what feels good, and leave all the self-control nonsense to ascetic monks.
Temperance: See Chastity. Do what feels good, dude! Look, if those ancient Christian godbags knew about ‘sex, drugs, and rock & roll,’ you can bet your ass the Third Virtue would totally be Silence or Church Music or some such shit.
Charity: No longer necessary, since we have the State to provide for everybody now. Far better for other people to be forced to do good on our behalf, than for us to voluntarily do it ourselves. Way easier, anyway. Besides, Charity makes it sound so temporary, like something you just get one time when you’re down on your luck. Everybody knows that entitlements should be forever!
Diligence: Geez, what is it with you Christers and hard work? How many time do I have to repeat myself? Do what feels good! Have a good time, all the time! And if you find yourself homeless or hungry or knocked up or diseased as a result — don’t worry! We’re stealing half your neighbor’s stuff and using part of it to help you out of the hole you dug yourself!
Patience: Again with the delayed gratification! Get with the program, guys! Do what feels good right now! Forget about tomorrow — any investments you make today will just be confiscated when they bear fruit, anyway. And if we’re talking about Patience with stupid people, well, forget it! I don’t need to listen to a bunch of crap from people who believe in some Invisible Sky Daddy.
Kindness: Sure, you should be nice to your friends. Unless they disagree with you or turn you down when you ask for free shit. See also Charity.
Humility: Yeah, right. Like anyone could be humble when surrounded by you morons. I’d call you all ‘mental midgets,’ but that makes it sound like you’re rampaging dwarfs, which would be way more entertaining than a bunch of wet dishrags talking about virtue and shit.
Seriously, though. If there’s any doubt that the Left has largely succeeded in their old masters’ mission to destroy religion, look no farther than how thoroughly they’ve weakened the foundational tenets of our shared faiths. In their place, they’ve promoted pride, laziness, envy, greed, instant gratification… does this list sound familiar?
Yes. And it ends with Gwyneth Paltrow’s head in card board box.
“Yes. And it ends with Gwyneth Paltrow’s head in card board box.” Well, you have to admit, the bitch was asking for it.
Are you feeling any better? Personal question; how much sleep are you getting? Bits and pieces, or longer?