And?
If something more comes of this, I’ll be absolutely shocked. I mean, just look at how the WSJ reports on this:
White House spokesman Eric Schultz said Mr. Obama’s reasoning was similar to that of former Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Mr. Schultz said the other presidents “protected the same category of documents we’re protecting today,” meaning after-the-fact internal materials.
It was the first time Mr. Obama cited executive privilege, compared with six times for Mr. Bush and 14 times for Mr. Clinton during their eight-year tenures. Under the doctrine of executive privilege, presidents have sought to withhold from Congress documents relating to internal deliberations of the executive branch of government.
— Uh huh. Except that Obama claims there were no such deliberations, because the higher-ups didn’t know a thing about the program, meaning that the evocation of executive privilege is nonsensical.
Regardless, once the GOP’s House leadership sees that the media will attempt to create a Bush equivalence (and draw a distinction between the sleazy Clinton and the Won, who has never before cited executive privilege), they’ll back down, albeit with a lot of strong words of condemnation followed, predictably, by no substantive action.
Theater, is what this is. Political theater meant to stoke the partisan flames and distract from consolidation of the permanent ruling class. Behind the scenes, business as usual, as the hurryup statists and the patient statists jockey for the next four years of lordship over their subjects.
Call me cynical, but that’s my take.
Holder is contemptible…
Trey Gowdy did a good job during the hearing. I do not have a lot of faith in Boehner but he is saying this is going for a floor vote if Holder does not cooperate.
OK, you’re cynical. Me, too. But just like little Crissy Matthews’ leg tingles, I’ve a spidey-sense tingle that this is going somewhere. As I mentioned earlier today, this has the Watergate feel to it. And I think that more than just the 2010 voters are waking up. The American people are always slow to rouse, but this F&F/Executive Privilege situation will now start alarm bells ringing.
If I’m proven wrong, you can remind me. If you can find me at that point. Something about a Gulch somewhere.
I am not holding my breath. But I want to be optimistic.
Obama Morphs Into Nixon Photo Caption Contest
I don’t get the sense of Watergate magnitude concerning the potential ongoing development (setting aside here the potential greater magnitude of the underlying substance of the issue, which I believe could easily prove far greater as abuses of government go), for the simple reason I suggested earlier today: there are no Democrat equivalents to the Howard Baker sort of legislators sitting amongst the minority, i.e., the minority will remain in lockstep, claiming loudly and often to the applause of the press that this is nothing but a purely partisan play carried out in an election year for the purposes of influencing votes — they will say there is nothing to see here, finis. When it comes to lying with conviction for the cameras, no one can hold a candle to the modern Democrat.
Sd? after reading the word salad, all I can say is that you’re PROBABLY correct. However? The house is in our handsd, that may be a start.
oops delete an “S” as necessary
and a d and the whole damned post
I take offense at ‘word salad’, if indeed this is a reference to my writing, having recently learned from Charles Krauthammer that the term was invented by psychiatrists to describe the empty ravings of psychotics. I mean, I may be stupid enough, but don’t believe I qualify as a raver.
sdferr, I’m just hoping that there are some mercenary Dems who will see this as an opportunity. Already some are finding reasons not to attend O events and some are washing their hair or something at the time of the Dem Convention.
I think we may see here or there a few (amounting at most to a handful) of the Democrats in the body of the House as a whole RI Red, who could see fit to support the contempt resolution, but I ain’t holdin’ my breath for ’em to appear. Even so, should they screw their courage to the sticking point, the press will ignore them (whereas, Obama and his minions won’t, seeking retribution, they can be certain). Their fortunes would then become closely attached to a change of administration, though even then they may not escape with their political skins, depending on the constituents they happen to represent.
Except that this isn’t gonna play as ‘just murder’ as the Clinton witch hunt was ‘just sex.’ All the reps need to do is keep the murder angle front and center. Ain’t nobody right or middle or semi left that likes the idea of our government being complicit in murder.
True dat, steph.
Their fortunes would then become closely attached to a change of administration, though even then they may not escape with their political skins, depending on the constituents they happen to represent.
maybe these peeps
The latest: New York Democratic Reps. Bill Owens and Kathy Hochul, both of whom won special elections in recent years – in 2009 and 2011, respectively – that were heralded by party leaders.
“I guarantee that my time will be better spent meeting the farmers, small business owners and other people who put me here,” Hochul told The Daily today.
A spokesman for Owens gave a similar explanation.
“He just has a packed schedule back home,” he said.
This comes on the heels of Pennsylvania Rep. Mark Critz saying he’d opt out, and a trio of West Virginia Democrats — Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, Sen. Joe Manchin and Rep. Nick Rahall — all doing the same.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/06/20/vulnerable-democrats-skipping-dnc-convention/
its a witch hunt talking points
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) defended Eric Holder after a House panel found him in contempt of Congress, saying the attorney general has “worked in good faith” with Republicans who are on a witch-hunt.
Issa goes on ‘fast and furious’ witch hunt;
I’d be pleased if the connection of the killing of Brian Terry could be made to the public mind linking Holder’s cynical decision to withhold evidence of his department’s involvement — direct or indirect — to that outcome.
I guess I just don’t foresee that scenario coming to pass — not with the media in the hands of the political opposition, an opposition which is determined to cover the whole matter up. So I believe no sufficient outcry will arise to drive the investigation from this point forward, despite what the House republicans do or do not do hereafter. Worse yet, there are more than a few of those same republicans who want no part of the investigation. They think it’s bad public relations. Stunning, but there it is.
CBS News has learned that the family of ICE Special Agent Jaime Zapata has filed a claim for wrongful death against the Justice Dept. and other federal agencies. Zapata was gunned down by suspected drug cartel members in Mexico in Feb. 2011 with weapons later linked to an ATF case in the Texas area. Joining the claim is Zapata’s surviving partner in the attack: Victor Avila.
Executive Privilege and how the House should move forward legally
by Mark Levin
Will ABC and NBC allow CBS to have sole possession of this story? Maybe NBC; it’s hopeless. But eventually the msm will cover this. Too good (bloody) a story to pass up.
FoxNews (the E-vil) said tonight that ABC had devoted about 10 minutes of air time to the F&F story over the past year. They’ll have to cover in now, if only to snot at it about Congressional “over-reach”.
In defense of my remarks about the extent of the investigation, its consequences, etc., let me note they began in the context of mentions of Watergate and whether this travesty (conducted by the Obama-Holder duo) will rise to that level.
I think the full House will vote for a contempt citation, Issa may be authorized to pursue a case in court, may well pursue the case there, but that in the final analysis this business won’t reach the height Watergate reached, certainly not before Obama and Co. have already been thrown from office at the ballot-box for manifold other reasons. The story will pop up in the mainstream news now and again, mostly for the purpose of dismissal, deflection and covering for the Democrats.
It may even add marginally to the disgust of some of the stupid independent voters who voted for Obama before and now lean toward voting against him. But it won’t of itself drive him from office, and probably not even drive Holder from office at this point. The bums are content to stick where they are.
Has a special prosecutor been appointed for this case?
Special prosecutor for what? There are charges to get to because the information is being withheld.
There aren’t, I meant.
wiki
On January 3, 1983, the United States federal government substituted the term independent counsel for special prosecutor.[3] Archibald Cox was one of the most notable special prosecutors. However, special prosecutor Archibald Cox today would be called independent counsel Archibald Cox in the United States.
The term is sometimes used as a synonym for Independent Counsel, but under the former law authorizing the Independent Counsel, the appointment was made by a special panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The Independent Counsels law expired in 1999, and was effectively replaced by Department of Justice regulation 28 CFR Part 600, under which Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed to look into the Plame affair.
Special prosecutor to investigate White House handling of Fast and Furious. If they discover contempt, if they discover obstruction, if they discover a cover up that is just gravy. Clinton wasn’t impeached for Whitewater.
I don’t think that’s a serious possibility at this point BT. The White House has said they had nothing to do with the handling of Fast and Furious, to begin with. The questions at issue now are so-called political questions, as between branches claiming antagonistic privileges. These, I take it, are either decided by politics as practiced at the ballot, or if the court is brought into the matter by law suit, in the court. Even then though, the outcome would be political, in the sense that the court has no independent enforcement arm of its own, so the resolution would again devolve to the ballot or to Congresses impeachment powers, both understood as political things as such.
There’s a long way to go before there is a special prosecutor.
Politically speaking it would be to the White House’s advantage to appoint special prosecutors both for the National Security leaks and Fast and Furious. Because then they retain control of the narrative and the timing of the leaks. And they get to say “See we are the most transparent administration evah” And if they don’t it would be percieved that they have something to hide.
We can count on the White House to always miss an opportunity to pursue their better interests though. They haven’t a clue. Somehow, they don’t even hit on a winning formulation with coin-toss odds, managing only to ever find the loser. I attribute that to a deep stupidity, coupled with a deeper lack of the simple curiosity to ask themselves “Why?”
As of today, they’re forced to cover it. There’s a few problems with the “nothing to see here” ploy. More than a few, actually. Two dead American agents. At least a couple hundred dead Mexicans. A program responsible for the foregoing (and here’s the really easy point to sell) and a DOJ that, two years later, will not identify who authorized that program. You’ve got more than a couple whistleblowers. You’re got ever changing stories. As of today, many, many more Americans would like to know what the hell went on here.
I don’t expect the contempt process to amount to more than a dead being made at some point, but Issa just sent Fast and Furious viral and Obama decided to play like Dick Nixon. All in all, a good day.
This is a criminal contempt… the results could be Holder in jail. This is not civil contempt.
This is getting traction with the muddle through facebook. Everyone’s timelines are covered in it. Even those who don’t follow ‘the news’ are getting inundated. Clinton didn’t have to contend with facebook and the MSM didn’t either then. The message is getting out. Patience people. Facebook is the internet water cooler.
A deal being made, not a dead. This has enough of that already.
They’d have to break the EP assertion in court first, which seems likely. But I expect Holder will be looking for a job before that plays out, and then maybe the next AG can prosecute him for perjury. Until he’s gone, there’s no one to prosecute him anyway.
CBS had a good reporter on the story awhile back — Sharon Atkinson or something like that? — they pulled her off when she got to close to the source of heat. Is she back on? Did she make facetime on tonight’s broadcast? Levin’s account of both ABC and NBC has them essentially dismissing the story, sticking close to the Democrat talking points.
Again, I be happy to see things turn out different than I’ve sketched here, but don’t see reason for optimism on that account.
Oh, and the last Fox radio report I heard was just as bad, putting the story into the hands of Ed Henry, who opted to spend his time citing the numerous occasions other Presidents have invoked privileged communications, without providing any context whatsoever, passing the whole business off as just another in a series of standoffs between neutral actors.
Sharyl Attkisson. She’s still on it. And Townhall’s Katie Pavlich wrote the book.
The full House is taking it up next week. Looks like Boehner found his balls.
TV Fox has been all over it. I suppose that’s Ed Henry’s beat, being the WH Correspondent.
I’m with RI Red, and I’ll say again what I said when this story first came out. This is a big deal and won’t go away.
Holder isn’t just trying to wiggle out of authorizing a stupid weapons tracking operation that got out of hand. I’m convinced it wasn’t stupid, but calculated…there was intent to use the resulting chaos as justification for greater gun control regulation. Those conversations are the 18 minutes of tape they never want made public.
I assume this is the CBS Evening News package. No Attkisson, and a dopey conclusion.
Katie Pavlich goes bullshit whenever someone calls it a “botched” operation. Her point is well taken, unless anyone can tell me what the intended mechanism for tracking these weapons was. I have not heard how that was supposed to work.
June 20, 2012 4:09 PM
ICE agent’s family files wrongful death claim against Justice Dept.
By
Sharyl Attkisson
Another front opened: Judicial Watch Sues ATF for Fast and Furious Records Detailing Communications between ATF and Obama White House Official
Lee, there’s just gotta be some reporter out there who is thinking,”Woodward and Bernstein? Pikers. I’ve got a White House literally with dead American law enforcement officers and innocent nationals of another country on its hands. Pulitzer Prize at the very least. Books, movies. Truth, justice. Comfort for the afflicted and affliction for the comfortable. I am all over this!”
Pablo, this is what happens when a story reaches critical mass. Lots of people get interested. Party loyalty and lock-step responses eventually go south. The story is too big to hide and O just shined a huge light on it. As I asked leigh earlier, “Who is John Dean in all of this?” You just know that someone in the administration is going home at night and telling their spouse that they’re going to be thrown under the bus and that the time for coming clean is now. Rats are the smart ones – they desert the sinking ship. Holder and O can’t leave the ship the way that Italian cruise-line captain did.
unless anyone can tell me what the intended mechanism for tracking these weapons was. I have not heard how that was supposed to work.
That is why we need to push this story until the drive bys can’t ignore it. The administrations only defense of accusations of being pure evil is to plead profound incompetence and paint themselves as complete idiots.
CBS’ Sharyl Attkisson Exposed Holder’s Lying To Congress In Oct. 2011
Sharyl Attkisson of CBS just Tweeted a link to a story of hers from October 3, 2011.
Hopefully Obama’s arrogance at grabbing at Executive Privilege blows up in his face this time. His poodle press have studiously ignored F&F for months on end
Now with this one overt act, they can’t any longer.
unless anyone can tell me what the intended mechanism for tracking these weapons was
each gun had its own index card where you had the first owner initial it and also put down the date and then the next owner initialed it and so on… they were supposed to keep records like this for two years or until there was a fatality, whichever came first… then on the other side was an address and a postage meter stamp to where you could just drop in any mailbox in the United States or Mexico and you wouldn’t have to buy your own stamp
Shit happyfeet, they didn’t go through all that trouble.
It was like tagging a trout. They wrote down the serial numbers and set them free to see where they turned up.
Their mistake was, when the serial number showed up next to a dead border patrol agent, they didn’t expect everyone to find out. They just wanted dead Mexicans traced to American weapons.
OK, pw-ers, help me out here. Sharyl Attkinson needs to go to CBS management and say, “See? I was right. And this will make up for Dan Rather. We’ll call it XXXXXX-Gate!”
What’s it going to be? Holder Gate? Murder-Gate? Disarm the populace and arm the Mexican drug cartels-Gate?
Gottta have something catchy so it stays in front of the easily-distracted.
that’s not a very good system Mr. Lee cause of the life cycle of a handgun in mexico can have many hosts and sometimes they can go dormant for several weeks on end where they’re not abetting crimes or anything, just getting shot in the air for people’s birthdays and stuff
cause of the life cycle of a handgun
stop stealing from camp sites.
This is sorta on topic and sorta off. This story is like so many out there: I’m ignorant of a great many relevant details and don’t always have a very good feel for what the details I do know mean. I could remedy that but that still leaves another dozen stories… and things I should be researching for work… and books I should be reading or rereading on the self-edumacation front… and drinking and listening to music. The day, it has too few hours.
So, I propose ConservaFAQ. A quick guide to all the topics of the day that starts as an executive summary and then links to more detailed elements that are again presented as an executive summary of that area or node. The blogosphere does a great job of linking huge amounts of detail and interesting editorial type thoughts but it doesn’t do thumbnail very well.
Pablo, you generally know about 30 times more details than I do and have a solid feel for the general gist of these things. You should run with this and reap dozens and dozens of dollars.
Depends on the outcome you want. It wasn’t only handguns. They don’t care about the ones just getting shot in the air for people’s birthdays and stuff, they care about the ones that get linked to murders and American gun shows.
I thought the guns were supposed to be tagged with a tracking device, kind of like the chips you can have put in your pets. I read (forget where) that the agents didn’t install them properly and they didn’t always work correctly. The gun-walkers were supposed to be tracked and followed by aircraft. However, our guys were outsmarted because the gun-walkers would wait until our planes were refueling and make a run for the border.
What a fucking mess.
That happened in Wide Receiver, leigh. RFID tags. In which they learned how that didn’t work very well.
Thanks, Pablo. I wasn’t sure if it was Wide Receiver or F&F.
Brian Terry Family Full Statement On Obama Asserting Executive Privelege To Cover Up “Fast And Furious” Documents
Nothing to see? See that.
I think that’s a Tom Clancy novel.
Not saying Holder didn’t try it…
Sharyl Attkisson reminder: Documents: ATF used “Fast and Furious” to make the case for gun regulations
See what? Them.
Nope. BOOOOOSH!!! Of course, they let the Mexican gov in on it.
Details in a tossed salad of program names, scrambled with one another into an incomprehensible comedic mash-up of confusion is just another reason to doubt the potential this story makes history by bringing down either the AG or the Pretenditant. Hilarious.
I just picked up my new NRA magazine from the mail box, so I haven’t opened it yet, but the cover was about Obama disarming air marshals.
Na, couldn’t be…Obama likes the second amendment…
National Soros Radio is NOT going to fuck around with a bunch of disrespectful racist Republicans… it is going to speak goddamn truth to goddamn power and if that hurts Team R’s feelings well so be it
House Panel’s Contempt Vote Against Holder Part Of Political Firefight
Sdferr, you sound very fatalistic when it comes to our media and their affect on the people.
Rising above it is truly a challenge.
I mean, I wear tin foil.
watching a house of cards fail is interesting. don’t put much weight on the king of spades
The No. 1 concern of voters is clear: In survey after survey, the economy comes out on top.
proggtards don’t go there
But can CBS bring themselves to let go of their precioussssssss? People are noticing the stink around him in droves. So, maybe.
FTR, Attkisson insists she was never told to back off.
That Theseus and Minotaur statue picture reminds me of the seriously confusing maze of the Phaedo Lee. I should go back and read it again.
Well, you fuckers haven’t really told Americans about it.
Heh, “the seriously confusing maze of the Phaedo ” is word salad to me sir, and believe me, I put that on me, not you!
Via Congress or the courts? No. But there’s something happening in November…
It’s jes an allusion to the Theseus story threadline underlying the action of the Phaedo is all. Socrates is the true Theseus there, slaying the fearsome Minotaur, fear of death.
The minotaur was in a labyrinth — a confusing maze — and Plato’s Phaedo can likewise be a confusing maze, Lee.
Similarly, the caption to the picture describes Theseus killing the Minotaur to transcend his animal nature and Phaedo is all about the nature of the human soul which likewise transcends the flesh.
Is how I read it.
Oh, hey, I suppose I should refresh once in awhile. Heh.
sdferr: “…there are no Democrat equivalents to the Howard Baker sort of legislators sitting amongst the minority, i.e., the minority will remain in lockstep,..”
I think some Dems could be found that are fed up with the Obama crime spree. Some of the aforementioned Dems who are skipping Barack fundraisers etc..
If some enterprising Tea Party types or even some smart, ruthless Repubs would start running tv ads in more conservative Dem districts saying something along the lines of ” Dear congressman so and so, we know you won’t turn Republican, but are you really happy with the radicals that have taken over your party? Barack and company are now involved in the murder of our heroic American border agents and hundreds of poor little brown people in Mexico; don’t you want to get to the bottom of this crime? …yada, yada yada…”
There’s got to be some old time blue collar Dems or Reagan Dems out there that we can turn.
I think it’s certainly worth a shot Mr nessman, given the very small downside and all. And honest, any such Democrat would be doing the nation a great boon, stepping back into reality to show how it’s done. Others might get the picture, even.
Obama’s got his very own Murder, Inc. going on. In our White House.
Red, did you come up with a John Dean? I picked Leon Panetta.
Oh, and just FYI everyone: Holder has the same “tell” as Obama when he’s lying. He touches his left index finger to the corner of his eye. He’d be easy to fleece in a poker game.
Panetta isn’t likely to be in the loop on this one. It would have to be someone in the White House or top level DOJ.
What’s Bill Daley up to these days?
Apologizing to his friends on Wall Street?
Aha! Bill has an axe to grind. I knew I was forgetting a player.
I once took a piss next to Bill Daley.
So I have that going for me.
would start running tv ads in more conservative Dem districts
the PARTY has a banished those types. get with the mao
“So I have that going for me.”
Well yeah, if you pissed on his shoes you do.
If he’s looking to make amends, that’s better yet.
Hinderacker’s write-up on Obama’s invocation of executive privilege is shiny.
What was that you linked earlier about West Virginny? Obamafeasance ain’t gonna sell there.
“Well yeah, if you pissed on his shoes you do.”
He was just the mayor’s brother who was always in the office on the other side of the elevators back then. Just a tall, friendly guy that I didn’t know from Adam until my friend mentioned it to me.
The first time I took any cognizance of the guy was when he stepped out as Gore’s main man in the Fl. vote fight, though I’d marked him as a Daley afore that.
That tall joke probably doesn’t make much sense if you don’t think of his brother as short.
Obamafeasance ain’t gonna sell there.
the true believers in the cause. ax the devil wears prada.
Very shiny, sdferr. Very shiny indeed.
The True Believers don’t live in West Virginny. Fucked over coal people and gun nuts live in West Virginny.
Anna Wintour probably gets the creeps flying over West Virginny.
That sounds right to me. The true believers from W. Va live in D.C.
Just as an aside, I’m kinda looking forward to what Michael Mukasey has to say about Holder’s latest contretemps, though I’m not sure he’ll be all that eager to hold forth. That is, we may have to wait awhile.
For those of you still wondering about Independent Special Counsel Prosecutors, before one could be appointed, I believe Congress would have to first enact a law authorizing such an office. The old statute having expired.
Ideally, the best course of action would be to have a Senate full of wild eyed tea-partiers extracting promises of full cooperation from a Romney administration before confirming his AG nominee.
Hey, a fella can dream, right?
Hmmmm….
BOMBSHELL: Proof Obama and Holder knew about gun walking in 2009
Nothing to see here? See that. Boom.
mr. g
as a true believer: Bob Marley Get Up Stand Up
The other thing Congress could do is defund the BATFE until such time as the Congress is satisfied the Bureau isn’t conspiring to deprive Americans of the Constitutional right afforded them under the Second Amendment.
Restructuring BATFE ought to be right up there next to restructuring the EPA on the conservative action list.
The other thing Congress could do is defund the BATFE
harry reid says hi! bro’
How about we declare alcohol, tobacco, and firearms to be awesome and American and then fold the greatly reduced Bureau of Explosives into the FBI?
J. Christian Adams suggests other defunding measures Congress could undertake.
well if you have many major nets and ff ain’t part of it. the propaganda fail. das boot das sink.
The answer to this rebuff today is to defund a wide swath of offices inside DOJ, perhaps starting with the Office of Public Affairs and Office of Legislative Affairs. They started the lying to Congress and the American people about Fast and Furious. Now they should lose funding.
go fer it. the baracky will sign toute suite.
F&E can go to FBI, A&T to IRS or Secret Service, since all we’re interested in is making sure taxes are paid on booze and smokes.
J. Christian Adams suggests other defunding measures Congress could undertake.
another beltway idiot.
“BOMBSHELL: Proof Obama and Holder knew about gun walking in 2009”
People should check out that link.
J. Christian Adams suggests other defunding measures Congress could undertake.
you go civics 101 idiot
so put your hands together for sally she was there when his luck was running thin
Sometimes the principle of the thing is worth shutting the government down over:
like when a Federal officer is murdered as the result of a Federally sanctioned operation, the sole purpose of which is to justify infringing upon Constitutional rights, and then the Agencies responsible for the program obstruct the Congressional investigation.
In a perfect world. Obama, Holder and everybody involved in this throughout justice would be looking at RICO charges.
He’s a fucking whistleblower. Calm down.
Yeah, cuz civics is for dummies!
Is that a Convenience Store Mandate in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
“The full House is taking it up next week. Looks like Boehner found his balls.”
– His wife points them out to him every day, so he knows where they’re at, he just doesn’t know what they’re for because she hasn’t told him.
See, that memo right there is the smoking howitzer, because what it proves is that several someones, including Holder and O!, conspired to undermine the Second Amendment in direct violation of their oaths of office to uphold it.
Holder has the same “tell” as Obama when he’s lying. He touches his left index finger to the corner of his eye.
I’m pretty sure that’s where
KhanAlinsky implanted the mind-control creatures.That or it’s a signal to their Overlords, Squid.
Holder is now claiming that holding him in contempt is “unprecedented”. Sure, Eric. Tell that to Janet Reno.