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State sovereignty is so antiquated

What we need, according to the Dems, is a kind of global test — a “legal basis” tied to “international permission” that would determine when our military can be used.

Because let’s face it: deciding on our own — that is, through the Congress, using a Constitutional test — how and when to use our own military for our own purposes is imperialistic, while letting other countries determine when we can act is far more fair and democratic.

And honestly: who needs Congress when you can get the Arab League on board?

A transcript of the exchange with Leon Panetta:

SESSIONS: “Do you think you can act without Congress and initiate a no-fly zone in Syria without congressional approval?”

PANETTA: “Our goal would be to seek international permission… Whether or not we would want to get permission from the Congress—I think those are issues we would have to discuss as we decide what to do here.”

SESSIONS: “Well I am almost breathless about that because what I heard you say is, ‘we’re going to seek international approval and we’ll come and tell the Congress what we might do, and we might seek congressional approval’… Wouldn’t you agree that would be pretty breathtaking to the average American?”

PANETTA: “If we are working with an international coalition or NATO we would want to be able to get appropriate permissions in order to be able to do that. All of these countries would want to have some kind of legal basis on which to act.”

SESSIONS: “What ‘legal basis’ are you looking for? What entity?”

PANETTA: “If NATO made the decision to go in, that would be one. If we developed an international coalition beyond NATO then obviously some kind of U.N. security resolution would be the basis for that.”

SESSIONS: “So you are saying NATO would give you a ‘legal basis’? And an ad hoc coalition of nations would provide a ‘legal basis’?”

PANETTA: “We would seek whatever legal basis we would need in order to make that justified. We can’t just pull them all together without getting the legal basis on which to act.”

SESSIONS: “I’m all for having international support, but I’m really baffled by the idea that somehow an international assembly provides a legal basis for the United States military to be deployed in combat. I don’t think it’s close to being correct. They provide no legal authority. The only legal authority that’s required to deploy the U.S. military is the Congress and the president and the law in the Constitution.”

(thanks to JD, Diana, and Jeff Sessions)

15 Replies to “State sovereignty is so antiquated

  1. Squid says:

    I wish I possessed the sort of imperviousness required to publicly embarrass myself with such conviction. Can you imagine the possibilities; the things you could do if you really, truly didn’t give a shit what the world thought of you?

  2. JHoward says:

    Yet nobody will call for Panetta’s ouster…except us bitterclingers, thereby instantly nullifying such a call.

    Convenient! And QED.

  3. JHoward says:

    Because let’s face it: deciding on our own — that is, through the Congress, using a Constitutional test — how and when to use our own military for our own purposes is imperialistic, while letting other countries determine when we can act is far more fair and democratic.

    It’s almost like we’re not fifty States ourselves.

    Oh.

  4. geoffb says:

    Consider the when here for the fine contextual look into the soul of this man.

    Panetta switched to the Democratic Party in 1971, because he thought that the Republican Party was moving away from the political center.

    He thought the radical New Left which had only recently seized power in the Democratic Party to be closer to the center of the American polity than the moderate Republican Nixon.

    He looked at the pro-communist left to be the true center of America. And then he went on for all these years wearing the mask of “liberal Democrat”, as they all did, till with Obama they felt no need for masks anymore.

  5. George Orwell says:

    PANETTA: Well, NATO is like a big club, and when you’re as untouchable and powerful as my administration is, you get to decide what the club does, and this law thing you keep talking about, dude… I mean, are you serious? Are you serious?

    SESSIONS: …

    PANETTA: Hey, Jeff, are you gonna drink that club soda? ‘Cause I’m parched. Talk, talk, talk. Let’s bust some heads.

  6. Sears Poncho says:

    Maybe someone can put me some knowledge. Was Sessions one of those senators who said anything regarding the administration’s Libya intervention? Seems to me the current administration already pissed on Congress with regards to war powers. Kind of late in the game to start asking these guys what they think of legal basis, seeing as we already know.

  7. RI Red says:

    My Aghast-Meter just pegged out. Anyone got a spare?

  8. sdferr says:

    Maybe someone can put me some knowledge. Was Sessions one of those senators who said anything regarding the administration’s Libya intervention?

    Sears Poncho, so, you’re asking for some information about Sessions’ history on the question, and at the same time suggesting that somehow it’s “late in the game to start asking these guys” [an aside: “start asking?” I thought you were wondering whether Sessions had asked or made the point back when the Libya incursion was in train? So which is it? It’s possible they did ask already or they’re just now beginning to ask?], when you’re own question about Sessions’ history suggests we might reasonably forget the circumstances of past actions and therefore be in some need of a reminder now, when the absurd policy is being invoked once again by the administration still in power, which Sessions seems to be helpfully providing, and of which we have therefore taken notice!

  9. sdferr says:

    correction — that’s: your, not “you’re own question”

  10. LTC John says:

    I hope the Ghost of Dwight Eisenhower haunts Panetta for the rest of his life…

    Were I Sessions, I would have asked when Sec. Panetta was turning in his resignation and putting himself up for NATO Sec. General.

  11. geoffb says:

    PDF on hearing over Libya resolution of use of force.

    Resolution 7 of S. Res. 85 urged the Security Council ‘‘to take such further action as may be necessary to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory.’’ When was the no-fly language added to the resolution? Were Senators adequately informed of this amendment?

    There is evidence that they were not. The legislative history of S. Res. 85 is sparse. There were no hearings and no committee report. The resolution was not referred
    to a particular committee. Sponsors of the resolution included 10 Democrats (Bob Menendez, Frank Lautenberg, Dick Durbin, Kirsten Gillibrand, Bernie Sanders, Sheldon Whitehouse, Chuck Schumer, Bob Casey, Ron Wyden, and Benjamin Cardin) and one Republican (Mark Kirk).

    There was no debate on S. Res. 85. There is no evidence of any Senator on the floor at that time other than Senator Schumer and the presiding officer. Schumer asked for unanimous consent to take up the resolution. No one objected, possibly because there was no one present to object. Senate ‘‘deliberation’’ took less than a minute.

    When one watches Senate action on C–SPAN, consideration of the resolution began at 4:13:44 and ended at 4:14:19—after 35 seconds. On March 30, Senator John Ensign objected that S. Res. 85 ‘‘received the same amount of consideration that a bill to name a post office has.

    This legislation was hotlined.’’ That is, Senate offices were notified by automated phone calls and e-mails of pending action on
    the resolution, often late in the evening when few Senators are present.

    According to some Senate aides, ‘‘almost no Members knew about the no-fly zone language’’ that had been added to the resolution. At 4:03 pm, through the hotlined procedure,
    Senate offices received S. Res. 85 with the no-fly zone provision but without flagging the significant change.

    Senator Mike Lee noted: ‘‘Clearly, the process was
    abused. You don’t use a hotline to bait and switch the country into a military conflict.’’

    Senator Jeff Sessions remarked: ‘‘I am also not happy at the way some resolution was passed here that seemed to have authorized force in some way that nobody I know of in the Senate was aware that it was in the resolution when it
    passed.’’

  12. Blake says:

    It’s with some amazement that I see our president move to grab as much power as possible while simultaneously denying all responsibility.

  13. sdferr says:

    That’s one of those lies so big it tends of its own weight to disappear into the background (is the theory, I think), Blake.

  14. Blake says:

    Truly, sdferr, a breathtakingly huge lie is difficult to challenge.

  15. I’m reminded of the old saying that nations don’t have freinds, only interests. And whose interests are being served by seeking international approval rather than constitutional defined approval?

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