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"Those who oppose Tea Party Movement would have opposed Reagan Revolution"

Levin, reacting to Richard Baehr’s American Thinker piece that argues, eg., OUTLAWism is “Stalinist” — the analogy being that idealism-based voting is a call to “purge” the party of “moderates”:

I oppose Mark Kirk, the only Republican I oppose in the general election, because he was 1 of 8 Republicans in the House who voted for cap-and-trade (Baehr’s favorite Mike Castle was another). It was a hugely imprudent act based solely on political expediency. This is not some minor pork project or spending bill. It would significantly “transform” our entire economic system, drive up energy costs, create energy dislocation, and most importantly, empower the federal bureaucracy in incalculable ways. In other words, it would fundamentally change the nature of this society. During the Republican primary in Illinois, only when challenged by conservatives, did Kirk suggest perhaps he made a mistake. But he has lurched leftward again. And according to Baehr, it is Stalinist to comprehend what a menace Kirk is and oppose him for that could mean the liberal Democrat might win the seat. Did Baehr make effective efforts to support a better nominee in the Republican primary? Not that I can tell. But given his superficiality, I suppose he’d say — “I don’t believe in party purity, why would I?” Or maybe he’d say — “Yes, I did.” In which case I’d ask, “Why, do you believe in party purity?” Or was he always a Kirk supporter, invoking the Buckley rule to support an extremely liberal Republican, the sort of Republican Buckley founded a movement to defeat?

[…] I have said repeatedly that there is no such thing as conservative purity. Conservatives do, in fact, have certain fundamental principles, as did the Founders, but that is not to say there is complete agreement on all matters. The Founders didn’t agree on all matters. For example, my interpretation of the Fourth Amendment might differ from that of another conservative, but if we are both attempting to actually discern the original intent of the Framers (that is, if we approach interpretation from an originalist perspective) and do so with reason and logic, that’s good enough. […]

Urging Americans to vote Republican, no matter what, because Republicans are better than Democrats, will ensure that the GOP will be a minority party, and will deserve to be. It simply is not enough to attract and motivate citizens to a party if the party does not have a cause. “Mike Castle can win, Mark Kirk can win” is not enough. And healthy contests in primary races, and even opposition to a particularly offensive Republican in a general election (not based on personal hostility but real and substantive differences that are truly significant in form and kind), is not Stalinist, Mr. Baehr. It’s as American as apple pie. You may want to bone up on your American and Russian history.

To others who may be reading this, my friend Craig Shirley, who wrote a terrific book — “Rendezvous with Destiny: Ronald Reagan and the Campaign that Changed America” — points me to pages 21-22 of his book, in which he quotes from a 1977 Reagan speech to CPAC. Reagan told the young conservatives, in part:

“Our task is not to sell a philosophy, but to make the majority of Americans, who already share that philosophy, see that modern conservatism offers them a political home. We are not a cult; we are members of a majority. Let’s act and talk like it. The job is ours and the job must be done If not by us, who? If not now, when? Our party must be the party of the individual. It must not sell out the individual to cater to the group. No greater challenge faces our society today than ensuring that each one of us can maintain his dignity and his identity in an increasingly complex, centralized society.”

“Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business, galloping inflation, frustrated minorities, and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise. They are the residue of centralized bureaucracy, of government by a self-anointed elite.”

“Our party must be based on the kind of leadership that grows and takes its strength from the people. Any organization is in actuality only the lengthened shadow of its members. A political party is a mechanical structure created to further a cause. The cause, not the mechanism, brings and holds the members together. And our cause must be to rediscover, reassert, and reapply America’s spiritual heritage to our national affairs. Then with God’s help we shall indeed be as a city upon a hill, with the eyes of all people upon us.”

I suppose in Baehr’s eyes, Reagan was a Stalinist as well. But in truth, he was the original Tea Party activist.

The ironic suggestion by some of our establishment GOP “pragmatists” / “realists” that the Tea Party movement is really a call to PURITY by the wacky fringe of conservatism is simply a rhetorical gambit to shame principled conservatives/classical liberals into falling in line behind our party betters. It plays on an idea of compromise that is entirely one-sided — and it uses for its power the suggestion that to vote your conscience is to do harm to the “moderates,” who really do wish to vote Republican, but hold back because Republicans inexplicably refuse to govern as Democrats.

In truth, though, it is they who demand purity — a purity that takes its shape in the insistence that we, as members of their party, shut up and get behind the candidates they tell us to, because they have a sophisticated plan to which we aren’t privy, and all of this rogue individualism is getting in the way of their grand strategies for taking back the power that they seem to feel they deserve.

Vote your principles. Doing so doesn’t make you a Stalinist, nor does it make you complicit in some sort of nefarious “purge.” Elections results aren’t gulags. Those who try to argue otherwise are likely not your friends in the first place.

321 Replies to “"Those who oppose Tea Party Movement would have opposed Reagan Revolution"”

  1. happyfeet says:

    I wouldn’t vote for Kirk either

  2. Big Bang Hunter says:

    ““Extreme taxation, excessive controls, oppressive government competition with business, galloping inflation, frustrated minorities, and forgotten Americans are not the products of free enterprise. They are the residue of centralized bureaucracy, of government by a self-anointed elite.”

    – That factual statement should be framed and hung over the door of every governmental office, school house, and college dorm in America.

  3. Speaker Pelosi & President Obama says:

    But, but, but….WE WON!
    So shut the hell up.

  4. Jim 'n San Diego says:

    [i]Vote your principles. Doing so doesn’t make you a Stalinist, nor does it make you complicit in some sort of nefarious “purge.” Elections results are gulags. [b]Those who try to argue otherwise are likely not your friends in the first place.[/b][/i]

    They are just a different set of people that want to manipulate us. They really do see themselves as our betters. If you are unsure, pay attention to the people they defend and the company they keep. That will usually tell you a lot about somebody’s true allegiances.

  5. Ernst Schreiber says:

    How can we “purge” these people when they get up and leave? Case in point: the DE GOP establishment.

  6. Spiny Norman says:

    In truth, though, it is they who demand purity — a purity that takes its shape in the insistence that we, as members of their party, shut up and get behind the candidates they tell us to, because they have a sophisticated plan to which we aren’t privy, and all of this rogue individualism is getting in the way of their grand strategies for taking back the power that they seem to feel they deserve.

    Do the “Establishment” GOP ever consider that it might be they, and their (old-school-Democrat-like) tradition of back-room deals, that the “moderates” and “independents” don’t trust?

  7. Bob Reed says:

    Ronnie’s words still ring true more than 30 years later; especially the part that’s quoted here.

    While I still don’t completely buy into the idea that the entire GOP apparatus is an elitist cabal bent only on self-serving power, I definitely think that they need to be listening to Ronnie’s speeches more, and their pollsters and conventional wisdom punditry less.

    Ronnie beat back the Rockefeller Republicans. But, unfortunately, the one he took as veep, for unity’s sake, managed to move things back in that direction.

  8. Ernst Schreiber says:

    In truth, though, it is they who demand purity — a purity that takes its shape in the insistence that we, as members of their party, shut up and get behind the candidates they tell us to, because they have a sophisticated plan to which we aren’t privy, and all of this rogue individualism is getting in the way of their grand strategies for taking back the power that they seem to feel they deserve.

    What you’re saying, Jeff, is that we need to be pure in our subservience, To our moral and intellectual betters is it not?

    They! Who in the hell is “they”!?

  9. Jeff G. says:

    Let’s just say posts like this don’t endear me to some of the most respected right-side blogs.

  10. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Well Ernst, that’s really the point now isn’t it. Those candidates that see their idea’s and actions are clearly being rejected by the voters man up and take it gracefully in stride. They don’t require “purging”.

    – Then you have the Murkowskis, the ruling class elites, who could care less what their lessors want, and who refuse to give up the reins of power to the bitter end.

    – The beauty of our form of government gives us the tool to manage that sort of behavior by politicians, the vote.

    – The problem starts when you get to many Americans sitting it out. Then you get things like Obama and the runaway bureaucratic mess we find ourselves in now.

  11. bigbooner says:

    I sent my Congressman (Reichart) an email telling him that he would no longer receive a vote from me and my wife. I got a nice canned response which told me not to respond to his canned response. Fuck him.

  12. sdferr says:

    Bob, doesn’t it seem to you as though rhetorical extravagances like “apparatus” and “elitist cabal” tend to cloud the picture as opposed to clarifying it?

    If, on the other hand we would point to members of the party delivering a sturdy, well reasoned account of the nation’s current primary difficulties, with thorough coherent prescriptions to accompany their diagnoses, who would they be (I have my own ideas of them)? Wouldn’t we then look from these exemplars back to the run of the mill pols, such as Boehner I’d suggest, to see whether the predominant voices in the party are communicating the same messages as those we find most excellent? And if, as it happens, they are not, what are we to think?

  13. Makewi says:

    It’s possible that those who flinch at this message have forgotten the last time the GOP held Congress, in which they promised the moon in terms of reigning in spending and delivered only a couple tax cuts and massive increases to spending. I recall being promised border control along with my immigration reform and social security reform that would allow me to have more control over my economic future, and those turned out to be empty promises as well.

  14. guinsPen says:

    I’m hearing a call to purge the party of its idiots.

    Purge party !!!

    (trunks optional)

  15. bh says:

    You are a cad, sir!

  16. bh says:

    OT: Van Gogh and tilt shift photography.

  17. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Let’s just say posts like this don’t endear me to some of the most respected right-side blogs.

    Yeah. Well, about that, I think the problem isn’t so much your opinions as it is that you lack the proper credentials to opine in the first place. After all, we can’t have the village atheist thinking he can preach from the pulpit now, can we? What would that do to the fragile, unformed minds of the peasants?

    HETERODOXY!

  18. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Ole Harry (My pet Coons) Reid just jumped the shark again on the Senate floor, referring to one of his female Senate colleges as “Hawt”.

    – Of course the Feminazi’a are going wild.

    – I think he already knows he’s not coming back.

  19. InigoMontoya says:

    You keep using that word, purge. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  20. Alec Leamas says:

    Richard Baehr. When that guy’s at the DMV and his name is called, it sounds like some poor lady is calling out for “Bear Dick.”

  21. ThomasD says:

    I want the health care bill to be repealed. For that to happen, the GOP needs to win the White House in 2012, and hold both Houses in the Congress sworn-in in 2013. The loss of the winnable Delaware Senate seat makes that harder to accomplish. Castle voted against the health care bill and was a vote for repeal. Chris Coons will not vote for repeal.

    Perhaps. But, assuming the ‘purging’ continues, and continues to threaten not just RINOs, but ‘conservative’ democrats then perhaps Coons’ vote will become immaterial, as others acting in fear for their own jobs, will vote for repeal.

    We are trying to drive the center, worrying about a single opponent on the fringe is shortsighted at the very least.

    But, more broadly and maybe it’s just my cynicism, I’m having a hard time ascribing these arguments to mere lack of insight or forethought. These are supposed to be expert minds, doing what they do best, yet they persist in weak arguments that utterly fail to see any potential for greater things. Maybe they are just that inept. Either way their arguments are enlightening.

  22. happyfeet says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised to find a vote or two from Team dirty socialist in both houses for to repeal the health care boondoggle.

  23. Silver Whistle says:

    Let’s just say posts like this don’t endear me to some of the most respected right-side blogs.

    Well, they can kiss my ass. There ain’t no (R) after your name, or mine. (CL) looks much better, anyway.

  24. sdferr says:

    Coincidentally Van Gogh showed up at APOD today.

  25. nishi the Light of Dawn says:

    Jeff…you need to be a machiavellian pragmatist if you are going to beat a machiavellian pragmatist.
    You ALREADY HAVE all the voters there are in the Big-hair Dimbo with mall bangs demographic.
    You need voters from OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS.
    tick…..tick….tick….

  26. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Yes. Well the progressives will have their sacrifice and their martyrs too.

  27. happyfeet says:

    but this year it’s the dimbos what are fired up fired up ready to go ready to go

  28. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – We already have them, in spades, and they have (NAO) after all their names….

    NON_AFFILIATED OUTLAW!

  29. Carin says:

    You ALREADY HAVE all the voters there are in the Big-hair Dimbo with mall bangs demographic.
    You need voters from OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS.

    Isn’t that cute? Nishi thinks she knows conservatives.

    Mall-bangs? Who even GOES to malls anymore?

  30. Rob Crawford says:

    Let’s just say posts like this don’t endear me to some of the most respected right-side blogs.

    Huh? I doubt Glenn has a beef with it.

  31. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Oh, and tick, tick, tick, right back attcha!

  32. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Because only Big-Hair Dimbos are suffering in the SOCIALIST UTOPIA that is Obama’s America. Everything’s hunkey-dorey for other demographics.

  33. Mikey NTH says:

    The establishment leadership failed and did so dramatically, 2006 and 2008 being the prime examples. while they did pretty good in their opposition to ObamaCare (not actually having a large enough minority to do serious blockage hurt), they have not given any reason why they should be retained as leaders. at least no reasons beyond that of ‘I want it’.

    That failure makes them vulnerable to being replaced within the establishment and it also makes them vulnerable to being replaced by an outside group. This is what the tea party and certain other outsiders (such as Sarah Palin) noted, and what they started doing, infiltrating the Republican party and removing the established leadership through the primary process.

    For any change in the direction of a political party to outlast the great leader (which Reagan was one) the establishment has to be changed, like what happened to the Democrats as regular Tip O’Neill types were replaced by the Henry Waxman/Nancy Pelosi types until Tip wouldn’t recognize the party at all. Yes, this will not happen quickly, it is going to take at least a decade as the election cycles to nominate and elect new people to replace the establishment will prevent any greater speed. Because of that people are going to have to stay persistent and stay active and force the change through. Yes, kooks and nuts will get in with their own private agendas and take up the anti-establishment mantle to cloak their intentions. Those people will have to be ushered out slowly.

    I don’t know if it will succeed, but it is a start – (and it is what I advised earlier so I feel kind of good to see it happening!)

  34. Big Bang Hunter says:

    “Everything’s hunkey-dorey for other demographics.”

    – That’s what the Left is repeating under their breath to themselves over and over in their usual collectivist chant, and why the tsunami is going to hit them like a Mac truck the size of Texas.

  35. sdferr says:

    “…2006 and 2008 being the prime examples.”

    Seems more like the temporal locus was 2003 – 2005, but yeah, the gist is right.

  36. Squid says:

    For years, we’ve been forced to choose between a party that wants to rob us of our liberty, and a party that wants to rob us of our liberty a little slower. One group spends our children’s money, and the other spends our grandchildren’s on top of it. That’s not a real choice, nor has it ever been.

    Faced with an insurgency that wants to take away their power, both parties in government are reacting with an alarming mix of anger and panic. We need to seize the momentum, and assure that over the next couple of elections, we install people who represent those of us who just want to be left the hell alone. In my mind’s eye, I can see campaign managers telling incumbents, “The only way to keep your job is to repudiate the party leadership and insist that you never enjoyed or wanted to trade favors, implement bullshit programs, or build useless monuments to yourself.”

    I don’t need to purge the go-along-to-get-along weathervane Congresscritters; I just need them to be crystal clear that the wind is blowing in a new direction, and they’d better go along and get along with *my* preferred policies, even if it means giving up the toys and the power that they’ve grown accustomed to.

  37. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – And I think the problem stems from the word capitulation, not compromise. In far too many cases non quid pro quo capitulation for political expediency was the rule of the day.

    – There’s nothing inherently wrong with well devised compromise, when it really is a compromise, something gained for something given, and as long as it doesn’t completely gut your basic goals.

    – The former, and not the latter, has been the case for far too long.

  38. Blake says:

    Jeff G., I’m quite sure there are those on the right who don’t like your uncanny ability to spot bullshit, call it bullshit and be right in the process.

    You’re sort of a rhetorical Alexander cleaving the Gordian Knot of textual rubbish.

    I mean, nothing cuts through verbal nonsense quite as well as hollering “bullshit.”

  39. Squid says:

    You ALREADY HAVE all the tax revenue there is in the fatcat banker and entrepreneurial demographics. You need tax revenue from OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS.

    Silly bitch thinks this is about votes. Silly bitch doesn’t realize that her gravy train is running out, and we’re just arguing over whether the transition is ugly and deeply painful, or whether it will be violent and destructive.

    Silly bitch also doesn’t realize that her well-being depends on the grownup managing the transition successfully, lest she come face-to-face and gain an actual, real-life understanding of the OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS she’s treated as vote cattle for fifty years.

  40. Mikey NTH says:

    #40 Squid;

    Add “Silly cow thinks that anyone here but happyfeet gives one good pudding-dip about her opinion on anything.”

  41. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – All the silly bitches on the Left are gonna learn.

  42. happyfeet says:

    Mikey she was very correct about what happened in 2008 she was

    What I wonder is what will happen to a not particularly inclusive Team R in the absence of the unifying force of Obama

  43. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – The answer to that question is why we’re going to elect people, regardless of the letter after their names, that are willing to listen to the will of the people feets.

    – The day of candidates being elected and then just disappearing into the star chamber maw of DC, and doing whatever the fuck they please is over.

  44. Spiny Norman says:

    Is nishi suffering from some sort of psychological disorder where she regresses to the mental capacity of a 3-year-old?

  45. Mikey NTH says:

    #43 happyfeet:

    When I go to the nihilist for an opinion it will be the day I need to be fitted with a wrap-around blazer. Take Mengele-girl and take a hike already.

  46. george smiley says:

    Reading quellist Kate is like a progressive Babelfish translation from English to Spanish to French
    and back again, that line from Billy Madison, is a proper epitaph

  47. happyfeet says:

    you just don’t like her cause you disagree with a lot of what she thinks about stuff

  48. Big Bang Hunter says:

    “you just don’t like her cause you disagree with a lot of what she thinks about stuff”

    – She thinks about stuff? When did that happen?

  49. Squid says:

    I don’t like her because she has the most facile “understanding” of the issues she talks about, and because she maintains a condescending tone that is completely at odds with her standing in this community. I don’t like her because she has only six arguments, and she repeats them knowing full well that we don’t concur, and knowing full well all the reasons why we don’t concur. I don’t like her because she forces us to take valuable time and energy away from whatever discussion is at hand to clean up the little messes she leaves in our threads. I don’t like her because she treats her voting cattle demographics even worse than she treats us.

    So no, mere disagreement with her conclusions is really the least of the reasons why I don’t like her.

  50. Ernst Schreiber says:

    you just don’t like her cause you disagree with a lot of what she thinks about stuff

    OBJECTION! happyfeet is arguing facts not in evidence. Where’s the evidence that she can think?

  51. nishi the Light of Dawn says:

    nah…i just miss the old Jeff.
    the smarter, non-ideologue one.
    he was awesomesauce.

  52. Abe Froman says:

    you just don’t like her cause you disagree with a lot of what she thinks about stuff

    You just like her because you’re both weirdos at the weirdo lunch table in a John Hughes movie.

  53. sdferr says:

    I kinda liked Vic Morrow, maybe from the Combat series way back when.

  54. Mikey NTH says:

    #48 happyfeet:

    Her principles are in opposition to mine. Why on earth would I like her? Didn’t you even read this post that Jeff G. put up, or are you going all emotional/zero rational again?

    Why on earth would like the ideas and principles espoused by a nihilist eugenecist who has no problem with all of the socialism she can get? What would I have in common with her?

  55. JHo says:

    Let’s just say posts like this don’t endear me to some of the most respected right-side blogs.

    Which is a dirty shame, for words not yours:

    “Those who oppose Tea Party Movement would have opposed Reagan Revolution”

    …paint the Republican establishment accurately, as largely indistinguishable from the Democrat establishment. From there,

    Urging Americans to vote Republican, no matter what, because Republicans are better than Democrats, will ensure that the GOP will be a minority party, and will deserve to be. It simply is not enough to attract and motivate citizens to a party if the party does not have a cause.

    …is pure incontrovertible logic.

    What’s left? That the establishment right-o-sphere is increasingly indistinguishable from its host.

    The lesson is that power simply corrupts.

  56. happyfeet says:

    plus also she’s crepuscular now

  57. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Credit where credit’s due, Squid. You have to admit that it takes a certain aplomb to be both superficial and condescending at the same time.

  58. Ernst Schreiber says:

    So are vampires happyfeet. You should know better than to invite one to cross your threshold.

  59. Ernst Schreiber says:

    i just miss the old Jeff.
    the smarter, non-ideologue one.

    You’ve mistaken ideology for partisanship, I think.

  60. Blake says:

    Ernst, you were talking about the “President,” right?

    Superficial:Check
    Condescending:Check
    Aplomb:

    Okay, maybe not.

  61. george smiley says:

    This one, is definitely Volturi, everybody back on your heads:

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2010/09/please-ignore-history-and-give-up-on.html

  62. Mikey NTH says:

    #60 Ernst:

    even more than that, when she first showed up here under – matoko, I think – she got the same drubbing she’s received everytime. The Jeff G. she is missing is one that only exists in her head.

  63. cranky-d says:

    Actually, if anyone has changed, she has. She was a guest-poster here at one time, before she drank the kool-aid. I forget if she was as much of a nutter back then, but I’m pretty sure she wasn’t.

    It doesn’t matter, really, since we are who we are, not who we were.

  64. RTO Trainer says:

    The ironic suggestion by some of our establishment GOP “pragmatists” / “realists” that the Tea Party movement is really a call to PURITY by the wacky fringe of conservatism is simply a rhetorical gambit to shame principled conservatives/classical liberals into falling in line behind our party betters.

    Not new either. In 1976, Sen Charles “Mac” Mathias, referring to the campaign of Ronald Reagan for the party’s nomination said that teh push to the right was isolating the Republican leadership, “…in an extreme-almost fringe-position.” Those who agree point to Ford’s decision to drop liberal Republican Nelson Rockefeller from the ticket in favor of Bob Dole. Of course they ignore that Reagan nodded to the liberal wing by promising Richard Schweiker as his running mate.

  65. guinsPen says:

    he was awsomesauce

    And you were prokchop.

    The Germans wore grey…

  66. Squid says:

    You have to admit that it takes a certain aplomb to be both superficial and condescending at the same time.

    It’s simply the Pointy-Headed Boss Syndrome. Not only does she lack the awareness to comprehend the arguments, the policies, and the consequences — she lacks the awareness to comprehend her lack of awareness. She is the pixelated embodiment of the Emperor in his new clothes.

  67. Rob Crawford says:

    Is nishi suffering from some sort of psychological disorder where she regresses to the mental capacity of a 3-year-old?

    Very few 3-year-olds want to commit genocide.

  68. ak4mc says:

    The answer to that question is why we’re going to elect people, regardless of the letter after their names, that are willing to listen to the will of the people feets.

    In my case, trust is enough of an issue that a D would have a significantly tougher row to hoe. All pols claim to listen to the will of the people when it suits them to do so; some even manage to fake it reasonably well (e.g., Clinton) — but it’s been a long damn time since I met a D that actually qualified for my vote.

    An R has an uphill battle to be sure, but a D is just shit out of luck.

  69. ak4mc says:

    you just don’t like her cause you disagree with a lot of what she thinks about stuff

    I don’t like her because she openly takes pleasure is stirring up shit just to get a reaction.

    And yes, that’s the kind of thing I tend to disagree with, regardless of who does it.

  70. happyfeet says:

    that’s like openly disdainful of the nishi to minimize her like that Mr. McGehee I think she’s a right groovy nemesis as far as the nemeses go

  71. Squid says:

    Getting back to the original topic:

    It plays on an idea of compromise that is entirely one-sided — and it uses for its power the suggestion that to vote your conscience is to do harm to the “moderates,” who really do wish to vote Republican, but hold back because Republicans inexplicably refuse to govern as Democrats.

    It’s ironic to me that they fear alienating the squishy middle, yet hold no such fears when it comes to their base. One would think that the last couple of elections, when the base stayed home, would have awakened them to the idea that taking their base for granted is an unsustainable policy.

    Honestly, I can’t understand how a platform that consists of “the government should get out of your business” and “the government shouldn’t sell your grandchildren into indentured servitude” can be characterized as extremism. Just goes to show what happens when you let bad-faith actors redefine the terms of debate.

  72. JHo says:

    noogie is openly disdainful of everything not noogie, feets. Get a grip, man.

  73. Rob Crawford says:

    Honestly, I can’t understand how a platform that consists of “the government should get out of your business” and “the government shouldn’t sell your grandchildren into indentured servitude” can be characterized as extremism. Just goes to show what happens when you let bad-faith actors redefine the terms of debate.

    A couple of days ago, insty linked to a Chicago law professor explaining that, despite his family’s large income, their expenses (primarily taxes and school loans) were so high that the lapse of the Bush tax credits would mean the elimination of the small margin above zero they currently “enjoyed”.

    The response from the left was overwhelmingly “screw you”, with a mix of “oh, pity the rich bastard” and “how dare you want to send your kid to a private school”. Some big-name lefty bloggers chimed in along the same message, and even the former Enron consultant economist (whatever his name is; writes Democrat talking points for the NYT) got his boot in.

    A frighteningly large number of people in this country believe they have first call on your labor, and they’re perfectly willing to use the government to take possession.

  74. alppuccino says:

    nah…i just miss the old Jeff.
    the smarter, non-ideologue one.
    he was awesomesauce.

    This really gives off a severed-human-head-in-the-fridge vibe.

  75. Ric Locke says:

    It isn’t the envy, jealousy, and covetousness that amazes me. It’s the shortsightedness.

    Rob the rich / and feed the poor / until there are no rich no more. Fine. So what will the poor eat after you succeed?

    Regards,
    Ric

  76. I’m just gonna throw this out there… I think Jeff, likewise me and many who’ve been around here for a while , has always been an ideologue. Y’all just have the wrong ideology. Kind of like when some hippy jam band Freshman starts hanging out with the Libertarians because, well, they like the weed, dude. It doesn’t last.

  77. bh says:

    Nishi isn’t my nemesis in either the old or new sense. Positing her as such requires an implicit insult though.

    Cheers.

  78. bh says:

    Do you not understand that to pretend she’s a valid or worthy opponent is to insult everyone here, ‘feets?

    She’s not. When you say this stuff, you’re insulting us. I assume it’s not intentional but there it is.

  79. Rob Crawford says:

    Rob the rich / and feed the poor / until there are no rich no more. Fine. So what will the poor eat after you succeed?

    The rich. Duh.

    bh — ‘feets is as worthy arguing with as mengele jr.

  80. Swen, oversexed heathen black Norwegian says:

    19.Comment by InigoMontoya on 9/21 @ 11:25 am #
    You keep using that word, purge. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    I’m thinking purging politicians is somewhat different than purging crawdads, yes. OTOH, purging them like a bunch of crawdads would amuse me considerably, although if you ever got the BS out of them I’m afraid there’d be little left….

    But if you mean purge as in “the removal of people who are considered undesirable by those in power from a government”, and assuming we the people are the “those in power”, then yes, I think the term is being used accurately.

  81. Silver Whistle says:

    Rob the rich / and feed the poor / until there are no rich no more. Fine. So what will the poor eat after you succeed?

    I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout. A Modest Proposal, J. Swift.

  82. Abe Froman says:

    He doesn’t understand, bh. I don’t have the generosity of spirit to talk happyfeet off the ledge anymore. I’m sure I’d like him in real life, but here he’s just a bizarre little creature who serves no function at this point but to irritate people.

  83. Ric Locke says:

    Hmph. I am beginning to see why it is that, as we look at history, prehistory, archaeology, anthropology, and paleontology, we see that the universal pattern of humanity is male dominance.

    Societies with female suffrage didn’t last long enough to get into the fossil record, because they always ate the seed corn.

    Regards,
    Ric

  84. Ric Locke says:

    –the word “perhaps” should be inserted after the comma in the last full sentence.

  85. Dave in SoCal says:

    Auntie Zeituni speaks: “I didn’t take any advantage of the system. The system took advantage of me”

    “If I come as an immigrant, you have the obligation to make me a citizen.” Those are the words from 58-year-old Zeituni Onyango of Kenya … aunt of President Barack Obama. She lived in the United States illegally for years, receiving public assistance in Boston.

    I don’t think you could find a finer, more concise example of the ‘free money’ entitlement mentality that liberals encourage and help to propagate.

    In other news, from the police blotter:

    Thief breaks into family home, demands room of his own and a weekly allowance. “If I come as an uninvited guest, you have the obligation to make me a family member.”

  86. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Societies with female suffrage didn’t last long enough to get into the fossil record, because they always ate the seed corn.

    And yet some of the foremost voices of the larger Tea-Party phenomenon are women –O’Donnell, Bachmann, She Who Must Not Be Mentioned. Why do suppose that is?

  87. Dave in SoCal says:

    And is it just me, or does the accompanying photo of Aunt Zeituni look like Flip Wilson in a wig?

  88. Abe Froman says:

    And yet some of the foremost voices of the larger Tea-Party phenomenon are women –O’Donnell, Bachmann, She Who Must Not Be Mentioned. Why do suppose that is?

    And curiously, all owe at least a measure of their prominence to the venemous hatred directed at them by “feminists” are their toadies.

  89. Obstreperous Infidel says:

    #86, exactly right, Dave in SoCal. Easy, easy, easy. They’re weak minded people. There will be no lifting by them, you see. Heavy or otherwise.

  90. ak4mc says:

    that’s like openly accurate to minimize her like that Mr. McGehee

    FTFY.

  91. happyfeet says:

    my sister flew in today so she took my car to go to yummy’s so guess what? the cupcake moratorium is over apparently I’m getting a chocolate salty caramel one I’m kind of excited cause it’s a new one to try

    I didn’t mean to insult anybody.

  92. John Bradley says:

    Is nishi suffering from some sort of psychological disorder where she regresses to the mental capacity of a 3-year-old?

    She seems be enjoying it, so “no”.

  93. Big Bang Hunter says:

    “So what will the poor eat after you succeed?”

    – They don’t think that far ahead, and there’s no chapter in the Alinski little red book that tell’s them what to do after they win. The sum of their cult goal is to win.

    – after that they’re lost. Bumbblefuck is the very embodiment of that limited. drad end skill set.

  94. Swen, oversexed heathen black Norwegian says:

    58.Comment by Ernst Schreiber on 9/21 @ 12:34 pm #
    Credit where credit’s due, Squid. You have to admit that it takes a certain aplomb to be both superficial and condescending at the same time.

    Judging from my frequent dealings with government officialdom, “arrogant” and “stupid” must be genetically linked personality traits, you hardly ever find one without the other and they’re closely covariant.

    But you’re right, to give credit where it’s due, Squid was spot on @ #37. There’s a train coming. At this point I don’t care if the pols get on board or jump in front and try to stop it. I’m betting that come November 3rd there’s going to be blood on the tracks and a big rush at the ticket window.

  95. Mueller,Private Eye says:

    Comment by happyfeet on 9/21 @ 2:58 pm #

    I didn’t mean to insult anybody.

    Well you did.
    I am very vexed.
    You can make up for it though.
    Mail me 1/2 dozen of the aforementioned cupcakes and I’ll consider forgiving you.

  96. happyfeet says:

    hey you know sprinkles is all over now Mr. Mueller there’s one in Denver I wonder if Mr. Jeff knows

  97. sdferr says:

    Kristol gets e-mail:

    This poll in Wisconsin [Johnson 52 Feingold 41] buttresses the point we discussed a week or so ago—that like in 2006 (in reverse), races that looked like firewalls etc. on Labor Day will move to GOP and the final battlegrounds will be places like WV (plus 3 GOP), CT, NY (Gillie only plus 10), etc. If this Wisc. poll is accurate, then Feingold is gone. It joins Ark., ND, and Ind. in the pick up column. Close behind would be PA, then Colo. That gets the GOP to 47. Assuming Republicans hold the GOP seats, they would need three of Cal., Wash., WV, Ill., Nev., and Conn. Not impossible. Three weeks from now, Republican candidates might be ahead in all of them.

  98. Ernst Schreiber says:

    What? No love for Delaware? Elitist Prick!

  99. newrouter says:

    And there the children will remain locked until the Democratic Party constituents develop ways to pursue their economic interests outside the framework of ward politics, patronage and handouts which are the only levers they are allowed to pull. Until that constituency frees itself from dependency on the Left, the troubles of the Democratic party are likely to express themselves in increased tension between a side which sees its entitlements threatened and a side which is no longer willing to pay the cost of those entitlements.

    The status quo is clearly in trouble, but it will not collapse completely until its clients realize that it can no longer deliver the goods it falsely promised them. A revolt within the Leftist constituency led by the constituency itself, rather than their traditional patrons will sound the true death knell for the old system. The Tea Parties can only heighten the issue. But a revolt by the Democatic minority and blue collar constituents will be the coup de grace.

    link

  100. geoffb says:

    #26 sdferr,

    Do you just have to repeat what Nishi said, but more succinctly?

  101. sdferr says:

    heh, I favor your interpretation geoffb, but actually that was an html failed attempt at a photo of a northern loon.

  102. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Not only is he an elitist prick, but his math is off. His count only gets us to 50. That puts Joe Biden in charge of the Senate unless we really think Lieberman is going to cross over.

  103. Ernst Schreiber says:

    The northern loon is a beautiful bird with a haunting call that in no way deserves to be associated with a batshit crazy banshee-harridan.

  104. happyfeet says:

    Our party must be the party of the individual. It must not sell out the individual to cater to the group.

    And it was just today that Team R with Meghan’s simpering coward daddy in the lead a lot sold out the individual gay soldier.

  105. sdferr says:

    Jobs:

    The study [pdf], conducted by Dr. Joseph Mason, endowed chair of banking at Louisiana State University, found that the moratorium has cost the Gulf region 19,536 jobs, not the 8,000 to 12,000 jobs estimated by the Department of Commerce report.

  106. geoffb says:

    Well, loons are actually quite nice to have around. Loonies not so much.

  107. geoffb says:

    Ernst is quicker.

  108. sdferr says:

    Another count for Ernst.

  109. happyfeet says:

    Mr. sdferr I think it’s a lot likely it would have been worse but that petrobras was told by the thugly U.S. government not to poach any rigs from the gulf.

    Just a suspicion.

  110. Jim 'n San Diego says:

    106.Comment by happyfeet on 9/21 @ 3:50 pm #

    And it was just today that Team R with Meghan’s simpering coward daddy in the lead a lot sold out the individual gay soldier.

    Yeah, because that demographic is so solidly Republican. Appeasing those that will probably hate you anyway is usually not the path to victory.

  111. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Most of the loonies seem to be in DC, Cal, or Portland, but that’s not a scientific survey. Just based on a rough prison count.

  112. happyfeet says:

    Team R either affirms that people stand on their merits as individuals or it affirms that they don’t.

    Today they chose not to.

  113. bh says:

    I’m not sure I agree with half the horse race stuff I’ve been seeing. Look at this RCP House races map and see if you agree with their assessment from local races you’re knowledgeable about.

    They have WI17 as leans GOP. Nope, that’s a clear pickup. Won’t need to spend much money there. They have WI18 as a toss up. Nope, that’s leans GOP. They have WI13 as leans Dem. Nope, that’s a toss up. That’s three for three wrong in my estimation. Obey didn’t just retire because he was tired. Feingold isn’t going done in flames for some local issue or egregious personal mistake.

    If they allocate their resources accordingly while we play a more aggressive game, they’re going to waste a TON of advertising money.

  114. bh says:

    Oh, sorry, look at your local races here. I really would like to know if other people find their calls to be overly optimistic for the Dems.

  115. Ernst Schreiber says:

    If you want to be an individual, happyfeet, don’t join the armed forces where your life is no longer your own. Or didn’t you know that?

  116. Swen, oversexed heathen black Norwegian says:

    88.Comment by Dave in SoCal on 9/21 @ 2:53 pm #
    And is it just me, or does the accompanying photo of Aunt Zeituni look like Flip Wilson in a wig?

    Flip Wilson looked pretty darn good in a wig and miniskirt. Auntie Zeituni not so much.

  117. sdferr says:

    I wonder how Lieberman will look at crossing over should Conn pick McMahon come Nov. Seems like it would be somewhat easier for him to rationalize in that event.

  118. sdferr says:

    “I really would like to know if other people find their calls to be overly optimistic for the Dems.”

    I don’t know about the calls bh, but I’m getting used to figuring on most polling overweighting Dems fairly significantly.

  119. SGT Ted says:

    Isn’t it amazing how all the alleged “moderate” Republicans sound entirely like hardcorps leftist-progressives when the mask comes off?

  120. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – feets, the military should be allowed to conduct it’s own affair’s. The Fed has no fucking business involving itself anymore than it should be involved in civil/religious institutions. That says nothing about the pro’s and con’s, its just a basic fact.

    – you bitch about light bulbs and shower heads and medical records/control, but you have no trouble supporting out of whack government interference when you think your idea’s can’t stand on their own merits.

    – That’s not staunchy, nor consistent.

  121. Dave in SoCal says:

    And it was just today that Team R with Meghan’s simpering coward daddy in the lead a lot sold out the individual gay soldier.

    Don’t forget that cowardly Team R also sold out illegal alien “children” (i.e. up to age 35) who are entitled to get a college education on the taxpayer’s dime. And I’m surprised you’re not going with the “Team R hates them the troopz they do” attack as well.

    You do know that this was a bundled package, don’t you? In a desperate attempt to pander to (and thereby retain) the Latino vote by passing the DREAM act, the Dems bundled it in with the DADT repeal and a defense appropriations bill.

    Guess we should have eaten the casserole because there were some tasty Junior Mints mixed in with all the the dog crap, huh?

    Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins had been seen as the crucial 60th vote because she supports overturning the military ban. But Collins sided with her GOP colleagues in arguing that Republicans weren’t given sufficient leeway to offer amendments to the wide-ranging policy bill.

    Link

    Happy, maybe you should pack yourself a couple of cupcakes and crawl back up into Nishi’s alimentary canal.

  122. happyfeet says:

    Mr. Ernst the people in the armed forces lives are not their own…. precisely – so if they’re told to stop persecuting fags then they will have to do so or face dismissal. And nobody is under any onus to give a shit what they think about it.

    But that’s wasn’t the point really. The point is that Team R really shouldn’t prance around bleating about its reverence for the individual when the evidence for such reverence is really rather slim.

  123. happyfeet says:

    Dave that’s a good point … do you think if there were to be an up or down vote just on DADT that Team R would support doing away with it?

  124. Swen, oversexed heathen black Norwegian says:

    Hmm, my HTML fu fails again. Geraldine

  125. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – feets I’m not going to say a passage like “I believe in individuality, but that doesn’t mean I support serial killers and child molesters”, but I won’t say that.

    – As far as I know persecution of any stripe is severely dealt with already in the military.

  126. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Your characterization of DADT as “persecution” is only slightly less ridiculous than the notion that our indivuality can be reduced to how and with whom we achieve sexual gratification.

    Personally, I’d advise you against taking SoCal Dave’s advice. Generally speaking, there’s only room in the village for one idiot.

  127. Dave in SoCal says:

    I don’t know, Happy. But I personally would hold the “cowardly Team R hates fags” accusation until they had a chance to do so. But then again, I’m not looking for any and all opportunities to bag on Team R like you are.

  128. Abe Froman says:

    Here goes the closet queen again…

  129. Ernst Schreiber says:

    The fact that Susan fucking Collins didn’t break ranks shows that the establishment is starting to wake up to the new mood.

  130. B Moe says:

    Comment by Rob Crawford on 9/21 @ 2:03 pm

    A frighteningly large number of people in this country believe they have first call on your labor, and they’re perfectly willing to use the government to take possession.

    “… because we have been guided by a Republican administration who believes in the simplistic notion that people who have wealth are entitled to keep it and they have an antipathy towards means of redistributing wealth.”

    Jim Moran D-VA

    Just a bunch of dimbulb ideologues, that is all you are.

  131. Ernst Schreiber says:

    131.

    Let’s not go there please

  132. SGT Ted says:

    We know that Team R wouoldn’t support it, for various reasons. I think we all know those reasons.

    But, I KNOW Team Dem won’t support it, because of the constituencies of theirs that are inconveniently not pro-gay, particularly People of Color. Thats why when the Dems control Congress, the DADT policy is NEVER brought up for a repeal by itself.

  133. bh says:

    The fact that Susan fucking Collins didn’t break ranks shows that the establishment is starting to wake up to the new mood.

    Please, please, please let that be the case.

  134. happyfeet says:

    Mr. Ernst I think if people were dismissed from the armed forces for professing their religious faith instead of professing that they were attracted to people of the same sex then the word “persecution”” would quickly be deemed a lot apt.

    The point is that the military has a policy what dismisses people quite apart from their ability to perform as soldiers and quite apart from their record of having done so. It’s not a policy what is pro-individual. And Team R supports that policy.

    There’s a fairly obvious syllogism to be made I think.

  135. SGT Ted says:

    And, having served 22 of my 26 total service years in a line Company (the guys that do the fighting; tip of the spear and all that) most of us don’t care when we have any homo’s in the ranks as long as they do their job.

  136. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – This political atmosphere is building in toxicity all on its own.

    – It’s like walking into a slum apartment building at night and suddenly flipping on the lights. All sorts of things go scurrying for cover.

  137. SGT Ted says:

    ‘Feets, team Dem supports DADT too. They just can’t come out and say it.

  138. newrouter says:

    triage is getting busy

    Just one month ago, Washington State Congressman Adam Smith was sitting comfortably, winning the August primary by 25 points. But a new KING 5 poll finds the race may be closer than the primary suggested, with Smith’s Republican challenger just three points behind.
    Stretching from Renton to Tacoma to Olympia, the 9th district has been represented by Smith for 14 years. In the August primary, the Democrat got 51%. But in that election, Republicans split their vote between two candidates and now, it appears the Republican vote has united behind Dick Muri, a former Air Force officer and Pierce County Councilmember.

    http://minx.cc/?post=305986

  139. SGT Ted says:

    The military as a whole is not pro-individual, HF. That is the point. It is a different culture, communal and shared, for very good reasons, but that community and sharedness is by utter force of law; by dictatorship. It’s the same reason we don’t have women in Combat Arms units.

  140. B Moe says:

    I was kind of confused by the whole DADT thing, but with noted military experts like happyfeet and Lady GaGa weighing in on it, it makes it much clearer.

  141. Well hf, there’s also that First Amendment thing specifically referring to freedom of religion. So the analogy doesn’t quite work.

  142. happyfeet says:

    I agree that that’s probably the norm Mr. SGT and yes I know the dirty socialists are a lot supportive of the policy. What I’m saying is that full-throated support of this policy is not consistent with a political philosophy what privileges the individual over the group.

  143. Abe Froman says:

    Let’s not go there please

    Yes, DADT.

  144. happyfeet says:

    you are welcome Mr. Moe sometimes do you think these threads are the cupcakes and the enlightenment I bring is the sprinkles?

    I think that sometimes.

  145. B Moe says:

    What I’m saying is that full-throated support of this policy is not consistent with a political philosophy what privileges the individual over the group.

    It isn’t a political issue, hf. It is a military decision. If you are trying to politicize it you are wrong, regardless of which side you are on.

  146. sdferr says:

    A good read: Benjamin Franklin on American Happiness

  147. Ernst Schreiber says:

    People are dismissed from the armed forces for professing their faith –or rather were since we don’t draft people anymore. Some groups take that ‘thou shalt not kill” stuff rather literally. In the present environment, I imagine professing that one would not fight one’s coreligionists would carry similiar consequences to professing one’s sexual preferences.

    More to the point. You know what’s expected of you when you go in, or you learn soon enough. If you want to stay in, just follow the rules. If you don’t like the rules, why are you there in the first place?

  148. happyfeet says:

    But Mr. SGT… Team R is not the military. All I’m saying is that Team R is markedly less pro-individual than poor dead Reagan would have them thought to be I think.

  149. SGT Ted says:

    Well, its really the military’s policy, supported by both parties. And it is really akin to the combat exclusion for females, policy wise.

  150. newrouter says:

    All I’m saying is that Team R is markedly less pro-individual than poor dead Reagan

    you’re not an individual in the service. you’re us property.

  151. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Well, its really the military’s policy, supported by both parties. And it is really akin to the combat exclusion for females, policy wise.

    I have no doubt the social engineers will get around to expirementing with that after there done with the expirement under discussion.

  152. happyfeet says:

    you can rationalize the military’s codified bigotry six ways to sunday… that’s not really the issue. The issue is that in supporting that bigotry, Team R forgoes the privilege of proclaiming itself to be pro-individual. The DADT issue a lot succinctly reveals that Team R is quite happy for individuals to be judged solely by merit of a class to which they belong. Perhaps less so than the dirty socialists, but neither party in America champions the fucking individual anymore.

  153. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – I’m assuming feets has no military experience, and if that’s the case, he has no idea of the function, structure and goals of same. and there is no argument to be made. It is what it is because that’s what it has to be in order to function. Internal issues are adjudged and resolved with that singular purpose in mind, and while there are certainly aspects of politics in the service, they are of a very specific nature within the permissible goals of the command.

    – When you’re asking men to put their lives on the line, all other personal preferences like sexual orientation, or any other “passtime”, simply do not deserve serious consideration.

  154. Ernst Schreiber says:

    happyfeet, if team armed forces says they like the policy just the way it is thankyouverymuch, is it reasonable to expect team R to defer to team AF?

  155. bh says:

    What if DADT is a useful catalyst for creating more support for openly gay folks in the military? That if allowed to continue for awhile longer it will both diminish any controversy and smooth the transition?

    It’s sort of how I feel about civil unions. If you do that state by state and people don’t see any negative consequences, then aren’t they more likely to support it for their own state and/or decide marriage is a doable option?

    We can have our own thought and opinions on these matters but gay folk still have to live within society. If that society feels “the ghey agenda” is bullying them or engaging in hasty social engineering, they aren’t going to be pissed at me, they’re going to be pissed at gay folk.

  156. B Moe says:

    The Army is bigoted, hf. That is pretty much a requirement if you are ordered to shoot and kill folks who disagree with you.

    Prejudiced and discriminatory as all hell, too.

    And once again, you are insisting on politicizing decisions that don’t need policizing. You sound like Meghan’s pinheaded brother or some such.

  157. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Team R is quite happy for individuals to be judged solely by merit of a class to which they belong.

    What class are you talking about?

    neither party in America champions the fucking individual anymore.

    Feel free to join the Libertarians if you want.

  158. happyfeet says:

    I think we should have our representatives vote on it Ernst. But should they decide to defer to Team AF let’s not confuse that with a political philosophy in which the individual plays a role of any particular importance.

  159. newrouter says:

    why do i have to know about your sex life at work?

  160. happyfeet says:

    What if DADT is a useful catalyst for creating more support for openly gay folks in the military?

    The injustice of the policy still matters I think.

    It speaks.

  161. happyfeet says:

    I will talk to you guys later we’re gonna go get the tasty shwarma

  162. B Moe says:

    The injustice of the policy still matters I think.

    Whatever you guys do, don’t let him find out about the dress code. He will really fucking shit about that!

  163. Ric Locke says:

    And anyway happyfeet has it backward.

    If you think the other members of any given soldier’s unit don’t know which way he (mostly it’s “he”) swings, you’re an idiot. DADT just means DMAIOOI (Don’t Make An Issue Out Of It). It’s like “hate crimes”. It isn’t necessary to tell people “don’t beat up on homosexuals” because “don’t beat up on anybody except when your CO tells you what’s downrange” is firmly and fully in place.

    Under that regime, individual soldiers are free to excel (or not) as soldiers. Their sexual orientation is irrelevant — which is as it should be.

    Ending DADT means creating a new victim group, which can then be pandered to as usual. That wouldn’t be so bad if the pandering wouldn’t inevitably result in damage to the military. What do you estimate as the elapsed time from officially ending DADT and the first lawsuit requiring the Army to alloy homosexual soldiers to wear the feminine version of the uniform? Personally I put the over/under as 3/24 — that’s hours.

    Regards,
    Ric

  164. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Now you did it Moe. The shwarma just turned to glue.

  165. Abe Froman says:

    I will talk to you guys later we’re gonna go get the tasty shwarma

    They wouldn’t even have to ask if you talked like that in Iraq.

  166. Ernst Schreiber says:

    I think we should have our representatives vote on it Ernst. But should they decide to defer to Team AF let’s not confuse that with a political philosophy in which the individual plays a role of any particular importance.

    At the risk of overstating your arguement (such as it is), what you’re telling me is that if the gays can’t fuck in public, the collectivists will have won.

    Except the gays can fuck in public (Folsom Street Fair, anyone) and If I wanted to do that (which I don’t –no need to thank me) I need to go to Berlin.

    Go figure.

    (enjoy your treat)

  167. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Ric, I’m still expecting any time now to see a case in the courts where an Uncle/niece “couple” sue for equal conjugal “rights” in an SS legal state.

  168. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Just to be clear, that was directed towards, “the political philosophy … particular importance part” of the ‘plaint.

  169. LTC John says:

    Somehow the Staunchetti missed the fact that DREAM and a bunnchof other rubbish was tacked on to the defense bill, as is par for the course with Nancy and Harry’s Congress – instead it becomes TEAM R HATES HOMOZ!!11!!! I am imagining that had this passed it would have been curses for TEAM R PUSSIES LET AMNESTY IN!!1!1.

    BTW – Prepare for a special pleader group in the DoD – based solely on behavior. As if the IG doesn’t get enough calls already for “you didn’t promote me/give me a plum assignment/looked at me funny just because I am X”….?

  170. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – When all this wrong headed recasting as every sort of hobby/preference/ and pasttime as a “civil right” finally comes to a head, you can bet your ass that sort of thing is going to be next. Once you let activist special interest groups and judges open that box it’s all down hill from there.

    – And the irony will be that the pushback in the aftermath will hurt all of those cause’s more than anything else they could have done.

    – Some of the leaders are smart enough to know that, but most drown them out and push as hard and fast as they can.

  171. hf says:

    Ric has a very good point about unintended consequences … Those happen a lot it seems … We should think of ways to mitigate them

  172. newrouter says:

    It’s important to say this because Sen. McCain is about to be skewered by the elite media and popular culture for what, in their mind, is his inexplicable opposition to repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” After all, say the political and cultural elite, who other than some demagogic and homophobic bigot has a problem with lesbians and homosexuals serving in the U.S. military?

    Of course, that’s not the issue. That’s never been the issue. Indeed, as I’ve reported here at The American Spectator, no one in the U.S. military really cares if someone’s gay. That’s why gay men and women can and do serve now, albeit without explicitly being recognized and legitimized for their sexual inclinations.

    What’s at issue is open homosexuality and the power of the state to force recognition and acceptance of the same.

    link

  173. bh says:

    We should think of ways to mitigate them

    Maybe DADT?

    I kid, I kid.

  174. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – That’s always going to happen feets when you base your issue/cause on false pretenses. People aren’t as stupid as they may seem to be.

  175. bh says:

    Btw, take away the news peg (because it was a POS bill) and some of the over the top rhetoric (hey, I honestly don’t know how much of the GOP opposition to ending DADT would be based on actual anti-gay animus), and I really have no problem with ‘feets instincts on this at all.

  176. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – I do. Not because I’m anti-Ghey, but because I don’t see any benefit or need to aggrandize a sexual preference. It’s that simple.

    – The fact it might make a specific group feel better about themselves is not the business the military is in.

  177. bh says:

    I suppose that isn’t what I would consider to be the instinct, BBH.

  178. Bob Reed says:

    staunchetti

    Good one Colonel John.

  179. JHo says:

    Ending DADT means creating a new victim group, which can then be pandered to as usual.

    Being it’s the military, why would a tribunal convene for a gay grievance? Seems to me if the military is the tacit dictatorship it must be in order to work, abolishing DADT should come with a clause, which is basically to shut the hell up after you’ve opened your mouth, so to put it, because nobody cares.

  180. Bob Reed says:

    happyfeet,

    I thought we weren’t supposed to be “obsessed” with social issues, like you tend to accuse the WEC, lifeydoodle, xtianist oppressors.

    Swords generally have two edges, and cut both ways. Unless, you know, they’re simply old saws.

  181. bh says:

    Above Ernst mentioned something like “join the libertarians”. I’d say that more accurately describes the instinct, not aggrandizing a sexual preference.

    We can disagree about the details or how it would play out (conservatives vs libertarians, the never ending battle) but that instinct bothers me not at all.

  182. serr8d says:

    John McCain’s against the ban’s lifting because he served in the military, knows full well the problems facing ‘integration’. For lack of a better term. I’ll warrant most of the activists who protest against DADT never served a day, nor would they have any intention of serving. Can you see Lady Gaga in a uniform? Or Meghan McCain? Full military acceptance is just another rung in the rope ladder leading out of a swamp that is a confused sort of existence to begin with. NTTAWWT…but, damn. There’s lines that just shouldn’t be crossed.

  183. Abe Froman says:

    I’ll warrant most of the activists who protest against DADT never served a day, nor would they have any intention of serving.

    That’s more of an argument against DADT than anything else though. It is worth remembering that the kind of gays who’d be inclined to serve are our kind of people, so to speak.

  184. newrouter says:

    the dirty socialist/fag lobby bring up these issues to taunt the rest of us. such fun

  185. LTC John says:

    And to think I was hoping to be picked for a 3 year assignment as an IG, here in the twilight of my career – now, I hope not…

  186. LTC John says:

    #187 – but then they would serve and not feel the need to shout their sexual activities from the rooftops… and demand you like it.

  187. Bob Reed says:

    And happy,

    You know I like you, and we’re mostly sympatico. That’s why I have to ask, what part of, “combining these bills for a vote they know would fail was a cynical, desperate, election year ploy by Democrats who don’t dare! talk about any of the “accomplishments” they’ve rammed down the American people’s throat for the last 18 months of Obama’s administration and the 4 years they’ve essentially controlled Congress, don’t you understand?

    [Whew, that was a mouthful!]

    Look, alone just about any of these would have passed. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe would have he;ped roll back DADT. And, Lugar-and maybe princess Lindsey-would have helped them on the “DREAM” act. And it goes without saying that the defense appropriations bill would have gone through.

    You know why it didn’t? Because Harry Reid himself couldn’t stand to go on record for the “DREAM” act. And the blue dog Dems like Nelson, Lincoln (especially her) and others could never roll back DADT. This was simply to give them a convenient distraction to pimp.

    And they need to be called on it every time the hyperventilating starts.

    Besides, by the Urkelbama gold standard, this effin’ bill is bi-partisan, since 2 Democrats voted for it.

    Dude. What is it? Do you see the ploy? And, are social issues on, or off, the table.

  188. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – And that’s really the key. Nobody cares isn’t even strong enough a sentiment.

    – The business you’re about 24/7/365 from the day you join to the day you retire is set in concrete with one specific goal. As Patton put it so concisely “….Not being a hero by dying for your country, but making the poor bastards on the other side a hero by dying for his country….”

    – I wouldn’t ask my platoon buds how many times a week, and in what manner, they fucked their girlfriends/wives, and I sure as hell don’t care to know the personal lives of anyone, not just gheys.

    -All I need to know is the guy next to me is well trained in his job and has my back. Beyond that I could give a shit less.

    – Everyone knows the reasons why the Ghey community wants to try to use the military to win their issue. It’s cynical as well as impossible. That’s not a moral statement, just a basic fact.

  189. Bob Reed says:

    happyfeet,
    Ric gave a concise description of what life in the USS military is like under DADT.

    And Colonel John accurately predicted the almost instantaneous appearance of a whole new “victim” class should it be repealed.

    You should listen to both of them on this.

  190. Ernst Schreiber says:

    There’s lines that just shouldn’t be crossed.

    That would be my instinct as well. To which I would add that my sentiment, is we’re runing out of those lines, having crossed so many of them already.

  191. Bob Reed says:

    USS military, of course, s/b US military. Too many years, guys; seawater on the brain…

  192. bh says:

    And, are social issues on, or off, the table.

    That’s an interesting question really. Let’s take Mitch Daniels’ “truce” suggestion as just that and not some preemptive surrender. I’d take that to mean DADT would stay.

  193. serr8d says:

    General Peter Pace, causing a firestorm

    “I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts.”

    He said he supports the “don’t ask, don’t tell policy,’’ explaining that “I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way.”

    “As an individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else’s wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior…”

    But he caught hell for that.

  194. bh says:

    As a complete aside, I really do get a kick out of talking with Navy pilots and colonels. I have a pretty strong feeling that I wouldn’t have been allowed to fraternize with you guys if I had joined up.

  195. ak4mc says:

    I a lot disagree with what happyfeet thinks about certain stuff, but he has shown himself capable, when he tries, of not just stirring up shit.

    I just wish he’d try more often, is all.

  196. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – I think what should stay, just my humble opinion, is an adult approach where you view personal things as personal, and treat them as such in an adult, responsible manner.

    – I guess in this “new-age” edginess society we’ve evolved too, that’s a radical idea itself. Don’t know anymore.

  197. guinsPen says:

    she’s a right groovy

    Which smells exactly like verve, to me.

    I bring is the sprinkles?

    You bring is the showers, golden.

  198. newrouter says:

    I guess in this “new-age” edginess society we’ve evolved too

    nah the dirty socialist/fag lobby wants to make everything a federal case.

  199. Abe Froman says:

    #187 – but then they would serve and not feel the need to shout their sexual activities from the rooftops… and demand you like it.

    I agree. I’m just suggesting that the quality of person most inclined to serve would more often than not come from that segment of gheylandia which is sensitive to that and fairly normal – as opposed to the people who make this a cause celebre.

  200. Abe Froman says:

    As a complete aside, I really do get a kick out of talking with Navy pilots and colonels. I have a pretty strong feeling that I wouldn’t have been allowed to fraternize with you guys if I had joined up.

    I was thinking, with all this purported anti-gheyness, never brought up is how off-putting it would be to have Danger or Bob Reed show up at your house as an interior decorator.

  201. LTC John says:

    #198 – fraternize? That is a crime – now, socialize? I see no reason why not… Bob would get you access to better food and nifty nautical things, I’d have better (non-flying) toys.

  202. LTC John says:

    #203 – Right – and those folks are already serving in many cases…

  203. Bob Reed says:

    bh,
    For what it’s worth, officially I’m no longer shit-hot. But Colonel John is :)

  204. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – I like feets also, but it’s hard to ignore the conflicted “staunchiness{” of all the pleas for focusing on the economy and “don’t get sidetracked” wall of sound he engages in when it suits, only to completely drop that approach the instant one of his pet social issues is up for vote.

    – Maybe he’s suffering from cupcake withdrawal.

  205. Bob Reed says:

    Colonel John is right bh, the food situation was always there and plentiful, 24/7, and as easy as hittin’ a cafeteria line.

    But he has access to really cool “toys” that most folks can readily wield :)

  206. Ernst Schreiber says:

    – I think what should stay, just my humble opinion, is an adult approach where you view personal things as personal, and treat them as such in an adult, responsible manner.

    But BBH, the personal is political!

  207. Big Bang Hunter says:

    “….But he has access to really cool “toys”…”

    (Shhhhh…..there’s barely enough to go around as it is)

  208. newrouter says:

    We have so many people who can’t see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. So they’re going to solve all the problems of human misery through government and government planning. Well, now, if government planning and welfare had the answer — and they’ve had almost 30 years of it — shouldn’t we expect government to read the score to us once in a while? Shouldn’t they be telling us about the decline each year in the number of people needing help? The reduction in the need for public housing?

    But the reverse is true. Each year the need grows greater; the program grows greater. We were told four years ago that 17 million people went to bed hungry each night. Well that was probably true. They were all on a diet. But now we’re told that 9.3 million families in this country are poverty-stricken on the basis of earning less than 3,000 dollars a year. Welfare spending [is] 10 times greater than in the dark depths of the Depression. We’re spending 45 billion dollars on welfare. Now do a little arithmetic, and you’ll find that if we divided the 45 billion dollars up equally among those 9 million poor families, we’d be able to give each family 4,600 dollars a year. And this added to their present income should eliminate poverty. Direct aid to the poor, however, is only running only about 600 dollars per family. It would seem that someplace there must be some overhead.

    link

  209. bh says:

    An otter would never have done that.

  210. newrouter says:

    Charles Krauthammer denied hammering Christine O’Donnell after her big primary win last Tuesday. Then he proceeded to tell Bill O’Reilly that Republicans threw away a seat in Delaware.

    link

  211. Ric Locke says:

    #213 newrouter —

    Back when they changed the fiscal year from June 30 to September 30 Congress had to do a “fill in” budget for the extra three months. They decided somehow that the “continuing resolution” wouldn’t do the job. (Actually, I don’t think anybody’d thought of that ploy then.) The news was full of it, including some details, because they started out by saying that it would be pretty much in proportion to the budget for the previous fiscal year.

    One of the items was that the budget for (then) Health, Education, and Welfare, HEW, was $110 billion. Some time later, they started breaking it down a bit; it turned out that HEW had made $25 billion in “transfer payments”.

    Now dammit, that’s what HEW (and now HHS + DOE) is for. It’s a channel for handing out money that doesn’t buy anything; “transfers” rather than purchases. I said then that I didn’t really begrudge giving $25 billion to the sick, the ignorant, and the unfortunate — but where the H*l did the other $85 billion go?

    Bulls*t. If any private charity had the “overhead” of our wonderfully compassionate Government agencies, they’d be shut down in a heartbeat.

    Regards,
    Ric

  212. newrouter says:

    barney fwank “seat”

    Sean Bialet For Congress

    When he’s not killing people, he’s building fuckin’ robots.

    http://minx.cc/?post=305994

  213. happyfeet says:

    My sister saw a picture of Christy O on my computer on Drudge and she said hey what do you think about those Tea Party people. I said I like the Tea Party they are a very good thing. She said but I don’t agree with a lot of their issues.

    Like what?

    I think women should have the right to choose whether or not they have an abortion.

    I said but that’s not really a Tea Party issue.

    And she said but that lady right there she’s not pro-choice.

    I said no you’re right but that’s not the same as the Tea Party.

    She didn’t look very convinced.

  214. bh says:

    When folks say that to me, I mention how there isn’t going to be any movement on abortion for a very long time given the composition of the Supreme Court. Just isn’t going to happen forever and ever and ever.

    Then I say, “This deficit, it’s going to break into your home at night and strangle you. And, oh yeah, did you hear that Obama hates jobs?”

  215. Abe Froman says:

    Anyone who votes based on the abortion issue in an economy like this is all kinds of the problem.

  216. happyfeet says:

    I didn’t feel like I needed to say nuffin what’s she gonna do vote for a democrat?

  217. newrouter says:

    I think women should have the right to choose whether or not they have an abortion.

    do you suck their brains out at the beginning of their life?

  218. happyfeet says:

    Mr. newrouter I think we can do with a bit less of the over the top rhetoric

  219. happyfeet says:

    that wasn’t even an anecdote about abortion really anyway it was an anecdote about conflation

  220. newrouter says:

    you know traditional proggs wait for 5 or 6 years to suck their brains out in ‘public’ schools

  221. bh says:

    Yes, I’m a free advice giving SOB. But I supported the instinct dammit!

  222. newrouter says:

    Mr. newrouter I think we can do with a bit less of the over the top rhetoric

    the baracky likes the suck sound. don’t do it to his daughters

  223. Ernst Schreiber says:

    213. Comment by newrouter on 9/21 @ 7:02 pm

    And tragically for us, the Great Society and the out of control expansion of government didn’t really get going until after the ’64 election.

    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this Earth. [….] These proliferating bureaus with their thousands of regulations have cost us many of our constitutional safeguards.

    [Now Reagan serves the red meat -ES] Back in 1936, Mr. Democrat himself, Al Smith, the great American, came before the American people and charged the the leadership of his party ws taking the party of Jefferson, Jackson and Cleveland down the road under the banners of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin. And he walked away from his party, and he never returned to the day he died, because to this day, the leadership of that party has been taking that party that honorable [sic] party, down the road in the image fo the labor socialist party of England. [….} Somewhere a perversion has taken place. Our natural, inalienable rights are now considered to be a dispensation of government, and freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping frm our grasp as it is at this moment.

  224. bh says:

    Mine was an anecdote about always talking about debt creeping into the window and raping you whenever people experience the conflations.

  225. newrouter says:

    But we’re against those entrusted with this program when they practice deception regarding its fiscal shortcomings, when they charge that any criticism of the program means that we want to end payments to those people who depend on them for a livelihood. They’ve called it “insurance” to us in a hundred million pieces of literature. But then they appeared before the Supreme Court and they testified it was a welfare program. They only use the term “insurance” to sell it to the people. And they said Social Security dues are a tax for the general use of the government, and the government has used that tax. There is no fund, because Robert Byers, the actuarial head, appeared before a congressional committee and admitted that Social Security as of this moment is 298 billion dollars in the hole. But he said there should be no cause for worry because as long as they have the power to tax, they could always take away from the people whatever they needed to bail them out of trouble. And they’re doing just that.

  226. happyfeet says:

    that is very hard-hitting Mr. bh I would have told my sister that if it were at hand

  227. Ernst Schreiber says:

    You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, of we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.

  228. serr8d says:

    The time for protecting unborn life is over. Now, it’s our pocketbooks what come first~!

    Yeah.

    I suppose so.

    Depressing, is all. Where’s Jonathan Swift when you need him ?

  229. Abe Froman says:

    that wasn’t even an anecdote about abortion really anyway it was an anecdote about conflation

    The whole issue is that, always. People who vote based on peoples’ stand on abortion are fundamentally unserious people. It is never going to be outlawed. Ever.

  230. AlGore says:

    And they said Social Security dues are a tax for the general use of the government, and the government has used that tax. There is no fund[.]

    That’s why I said we needed a lockbox.

  231. Mikey NTH says:

    #106 happyfeet:

    And it was just today that Team R with Meghan’s simpering coward daddy in the lead a lot sold out the individual gay soldier.

    So why the devil do you hang out with and defend the nihilist eugenecist (can’t do that legally without the state’s force) nishi?

    Hint: In this post Jeff G. is talking about principles. Figure your’s out.

  232. Darleen says:

    It is never going to be outlawed. Ever.

    Nor should it. However, it shouldn’t be thought of as a “right”, which translates into “FREE” abortions and forcing doctors/nurses/pharmacists into participating.

  233. happyfeet says:

    nishi is our internet friend just cause people have different views than you doesn’t mean they’re icky to where they can’t sit at your table at lunch in this little John Hughes movie we call life

  234. Mikey NTH says:

    #157 BBH:

    happyfeet argues from emotion; reason has no cupcakes at his table.

  235. JD says:

    nishit is objectively a bad and vile human thingie, happyfeet.

  236. bh says:

    The time for protecting unborn life is over. Now, it’s our pocketbooks what come first~!

    Yeah.

    Serr8d, walk me through the election victory that ends abortion. Seriously. Maybe this election is about abortion to you but you’re going to have to explain it to me.

  237. Ernst Schreiber says:

    You know, if we as a society weren’t so cavalier in our attitude towards who gets to be born into the world and who ends up medical waste, we might not be so cavalier about the debt we’re bequeathing them. The one’s who do get born that is.

    Food for thought.

  238. newrouter says:

    abortions and forcing doctors/nurses/pharmacists into participating.

    that’s the socialist/fag agenda for the queer vote

  239. Darleen says:

    And it was just today that Team R with Meghan’s simpering coward daddy in the lead a lot sold out the individual gay soldier.

    oh my, I missed that one, Mikey

    As many problems I have with McCain, that’s not what he was doing, hf.

    This is an issue that should be left to the military.

  240. Darleen says:

    nishi is our internet friend

    Kate Mengele is not in my “our” under any circumstance. She has a rotted soul.

  241. newrouter says:

    Maybe this election is about abortion to you but you’re going to have to explain it to me.

    no it is about freedom

  242. Abe Froman says:

    No, she’s icky. I’ll reserve my lunch table tolerance for you, the borderline icky kid what I agree with 99% of the time even though you play with your dick a lot and alienate people who’d let you taste their cupcakes with your non dick hand if you weren’t so alienatey.

  243. Mikey NTH says:

    #239:
    No – she is not our friend. I did not give you permission to make her my friend. I do not make friends with wanna-be genocidists.

    Get it?

  244. happyfeet says:

    if you’re not only among and just invite who you wanna come

    you’ll miss a million miles of fun

  245. newrouter says:

    Last February 19th at the University of Minnesota, Norman Thomas, six-times candidate for President on the Socialist Party ticket, said, “If Barry Goldwater became President, he would stop the advance of socialism in the United States.” I think that’s exactly what he will do.

    But as a former Democrat, I can tell you Norman Thomas isn’t the only man who has drawn this parallel to socialism with the present administration, because back in 1936, Mr. Democrat himself, Al Smith, the great American, came before the American people and charged that the leadership of his Party was taking the Party of Jefferson, Jackson, and Cleveland down the road under the banners of Marx, Lenin, and Stalin. And he walked away from his Party, and he never returned til the day he died — because to this day, the leadership of that Party has been taking that Party, that honorable Party, down the road in the image of the labor Socialist Party of England.

    Now it doesn’t require expropriation or confiscation of private property or business to impose socialism on a people. What does it mean whether you hold the deed to the — or the title to your business or property if the government holds the power of life and death over that business or property? And such machinery already exists. The government can find some charge to bring against any concern it chooses to prosecute. Every businessman has his own tale of harassment. Somewhere a perversion has taken place. Our natural, unalienable rights are now considered to be a dispensation of government, and freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping from our grasp as it is at this moment.

    Our Democratic opponents seem unwilling to debate these issues. They want to make you and I believe that this is a contest between two men — that we’re to choose just between two personalities.

  246. Mikey NTH says:

    #250 happyfeet:

    The million miles of fun that the statist eugenecist genocidists have pranced down over the past 100 years is a path I would prefer not go alongside of, than you very much.

  247. ak4mc says:

    nishi is our internet friend

    You and what cupake?

  248. newrouter says:

    Those who would trade our freedom for the soup kitchen of the welfare state have told us they have a utopian solution of peace without victory. They call their policy “accommodation.” And they say if we’ll only avoid any direct confrontation with the enemy, he’ll forget his evil ways and learn to love us. All who oppose them are indicted as warmongers. They say we offer simple answers to complex problems. Well, perhaps there is a simple answer — not an easy answer — but simple: If you and I have the courage to tell our elected officials that we want our national policy based on what we know in our hearts is morally right.

    We cannot buy our security, our freedom from the threat of the bomb by committing an immorality so great as saying to a billion human beings now enslaved behind the Iron Curtain, “Give up your dreams of freedom because to save our own skins, we’re willing to make a deal with your slave masters.” Alexander Hamilton said, “A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.” Now let’s set the record straight. There’s no argument over the choice between peace and war, but there’s only one guaranteed way you can have peace — and you can have it in the next second — surrender.

  249. ak4mc says:

    if you’re not only among and just invite who you wanna come

    you’ll miss a million miles of fun

    I chose my friends more wisely than you, I guess. I have a billion miles of fun with them, but people who tag along just to stir up shit make for a gazillion miles of HOW FAR IS IT TO THE NEAREST PLACE WHERE PREMEDITATED MURDER ISN’T ILLEGAL?

  250. ThomasD says:

    #239 – If you persist in making such associations you and I are going to have a problem.

  251. bh says:

    just cause people have different views than you doesn’t mean they’re icky

    I hate piling on so add a few dozen emoticons here. Nishi doesn’t bother me because we have different views. Stop saying this. It’s not true.

    For instance, could it not be more clear that Ernst and I have different social views? Yet, oddly enough, we’ve had no problems with one another. Why do you think that is?

  252. happyfeet says:

    here’s a song about the folly of capitalism-fueled consumption

    kinda stupid, no?

    but still it’s kind of a groovy song

  253. happyfeet says:

    “that was a metaphor,” happyfeet added helpfully

  254. bh says:

    Is 259 in response to 257?

  255. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Whaddya mean we haint got no problemz you fricken CHEEZHEAD!!! [grin]

  256. bh says:

    Heh, I’d return fire but pawning Favre off on you was about as terrible a thing we could have done.

  257. happyfeet says:

    no 259 was a response to 258

    to number 257 I would just say

    […]

    I a lot think no one understands her … she utters mysteries with her spirit.

  258. Mikey NTH says:

    #259 happyfeet:

    Screw the metaphors and the songs.

    What are your principles? Where do you stand?

    From part of an e-mail I sent my brother recently:

    What do you actually believe in?
    Where do you anchor yourself?
    Where do you draw your line?
    Who are you?

    Are you Horatius?

    Then out spoke brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:
    “To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late;
    And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,
    For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods,

    And for the tender mother who dandled him to rest,
    And for the wife who nurses his baby at her breast,
    And for the holy maidens who feed the eternal flame,
    To save them from false Sextus, that wrought the deed of shame?

    Hew down the bridge, Sir Consul, with all the speed ye may!
    I, with two more to help me, will hold the foe in play.
    In yon strait path, a thousand may well be stopped by three:
    Now, who will stand on either hand and keep the bridge with me?’

    Back to this:

    Where exactly do your principles lie that you take up with one who would repeat the ghastly horrors of the last century all in the name of science?
    I prefer to stand with brave Horatius (whose name I share). I prefer the flawed people who are willing to fight for the ashes of our Fathers and for our Temple of Parchment. I do not prefer those who would cast every ally over the side who does not strike true on the New! Improved! Cause of the Day.

    Yeah, I’m not hip. And when the hipsters turn out an honest day’s work at anything, then I’ll perhaps consider thinking about caring what the hipster opinion is.

    And if that opinion includes defeatism, nihilism, eugenicism, and genocide than the hipster has my permission to become Satan’s own loofah.

  259. ThomasD says:

    she utters mysteries with her spirit.

    And cupcake siren song with her cooz.

    Seriously, you need to consider how you might view her if she had alternate junk.

  260. bh says:

    Okay, I was confused. I figured the John Hughes lunch table was a metaphor so another level of metaphor was very meta and this made me dizzy.

    Towards nishi, meh. Sorta feel like I understand her. She’s not really bringing a bunch of new arguments to the table each time. This has given me lots and lots of time to think about Avatar and demographic determinism.

  261. george smiley says:

    She’s the basket case, played by Ally Sheedy in the film

  262. happyfeet says:

    first of all defeatism is very old and busted while Team R triumphalism is the new hotness

    second of all nishi is well within the realm of reason to find the status quo a bit wanting, even if her prescriptions are not what yours or mine might be

    What are your principles? Where do you stand?

    Service, really. I try a lot to be of Service. It’s distressing when my little country threatens to become a thing twisted and wretched what is unworthy of a little pikachu’s service. In which case I shall have to improvise I suppose.

  263. newrouter says:

    Admittedly, there’s a risk in any course we follow other than this, but every lesson of history tells us that the greater risk lies in appeasement, and this is the specter our well-meaning liberal friends refuse to face — that their policy of accommodation is appeasement, and it gives no choice between peace and war, only between fight or surrender. If we continue to accommodate, continue to back and retreat, eventually we have to face the final demand — the ultimatum. And what then — when Nikita Khrushchev has told his people he knows what our answer will be? He has told them that we’re retreating under the pressure of the Cold War, and someday when the time comes to deliver the final ultimatum, our surrender will be voluntary, because by that time we will have been weakened from within spiritually, morally, and economically. He believes this because from our side he’s heard voices pleading for “peace at any price” or “better Red than dead,” or as one commentator put it, he’d rather “live on his knees than die on his feet.” And therein lies the road to war, because those voices don’t speak for the rest of us.

  264. Mikey NTH says:

    she utters mysteries with her spirit.

    I forget – is it holy water or garlic that gets to her?

  265. Abe Froman says:

    I a lot think no one understands her … she utters mysteries with her spirit.

    I don’t understand Matthew Lesko, the free money from the government guy who looks like Michael Kinsley and dresses like a gay cocktail lounge performer. Nishi’s easy to understand. And easier still to want nothing to do with.

  266. happyfeet says:

    that’s from Corinthians Mr. Mikey the one in the Bible

  267. happyfeet says:

    For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.*

  268. Mikey NTH says:

    #270 happy feet:

    first of all defeatism is very old and busted while Team R triumphalism is the new hotness

    second of all nishi is well within the realm of reason to find the status quo a bit wanting, even if her prescriptions are not what yours or mine might be

    What are your principles? Where do you stand?

    Service, really. I try a lot to be of Service. It’s distressing when my little country threatens to become a thing twisted and wretched what is unworthy of a little pikachu’s service. In which case I shall have to improvise I suppose.

    (1) Defeatism is your near-constant call if everything doesn’t immediately go your way. I think it was you Thomas Paine was referring to with ‘summer soldiers and sunshine patroits’.

    (2) nishi is in a realm that has as little to do with reason as Hummel figurines have to do with anti-tank weapons. The color of the sky in her world is plaid.

    (3) You wouldn’t know service if it rose out of a cupcake and latched onto your nose. And if you weren’t such an egotist you would understand it is when your country is hurting the most is when you owe the most service. Your patriotism is what Ace has called ‘Ike Turner Patriotism’ – the bitch has it coming.

    See: Satan, loofah, you.

  269. newrouter says:

    For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.

    the “other” side stones fags and woman

  270. ThomasD says:

    Fantasize about her tongue all you want, she ain’t gonna dance with your snake.

  271. newrouter says:

    . Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.*

    allan will smite the faggot

  272. Mikey NTH says:

    #275 happyfeet:

    Fine one you are to quote the Bible when any Christian who dares speak up in the public is castigated.

    Since you have done so I guess I can call you ‘hoochie whore cumslut failshit’.

    See also: Sow, Reap.

  273. LBascom says:

    Newrouter, I, for one, appreciate your efforts to steer us away from the happyfeet massage session.

    Man, that Khrushchev guy was a drama queen, weren’t he?

  274. newrouter says:

    fuck cupcake loser

    Idle industries have cast workers into unemployment, causing human misery and personal indignity. Those who do work are denied a fair return for their labor by a tax system which penalizes successful achievement and keeps us from maintaining full productivity.

    But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades, we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children’s future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.

  275. happyfeet says:

    I said I would improvise.

  276. Mikey NTH says:

    #285: cumslut

  277. serr8d says:

    I know, I know bh. Just seems some things are not as seriously taken as they might should be. Or maybe that’s just me. My over-arching theories aren’t well enough grounded. Ethereal or something…

    Oh, before I forget…

  278. serr8d says:

    See? I forgot already.

  279. newrouter says:

    I said I would improvise.

    baracky has got a job you can’t do

  280. Ernst Schreiber says:

    15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit, and the evil tree brings forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that brings not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

    That’s in the Bible too. The Gospel of Matthew, to be precise.

  281. happyfeet says:

    evil trees? what the fuck is he on about?

  282. Ernst Schreiber says:

    I’m not the praying type happyfeet, I’m really not. But I think I’ll say a prayer for you tonight.

  283. happyfeet says:

    I think the trees might could need it more

  284. bh says:

    In case I was unclear up above, Serr8d, I wasn’t knocking your views on abortion, how seriously you take it, or anything like that.

    Let’s put it like this, when I’m knocking on doors next weekend, I’d feel like I was lying if I said to people that their local congressional race was going to effect abortion access in this country. But, I wouldn’t be lying if I said that taking the House could stop the crazy spending spree.

  285. newrouter says:

    evil trees?

    evil cupcakes

  286. newrouter says:

    fuck the queer guy

    You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?

    We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding–we are going to begin to act, beginning today.

  287. Big Bang Hunter says:

    you’ll miss a million miles of fun

    – I suppose, if a dump truck load of euthanized fetuses is your idea of fun.

    – The really creepy aspect is the way she so glibly talks about it, almost like she’s wearing a little smile.

  288. serr8d says:

    It’s very important to take the House, bh. To survive as a nation, we’ve got to stop the fiscal bleeding. Because this nation has a purpose, it should survive.

    At one time, that purpose was to grow trees that bore good fruits, and so carry on. It’s still there, that purpose, just covered up under layers of rotten fruit.

  289. LBascom says:

    “evil trees? ”

    1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

  290. Ernst Schreiber says:

    That bears repeating newrouter.

    You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?

    We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding–we are going to begin to act, beginning today.

  291. bh says:

    I’m pretty sure everyone here knows the Bible better than me. Which is odd because I went to church six days a week for twelve years of parochial school.

    I pass the ball a lot when I play hoops though, eat everything on my plate and still think plaid skirts are very attractive.

  292. sdferr says:

    Vic Morrow was one of the good guys.

  293. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – All this talk of evil trees and fruits is going to have some troll screaming homophobia…..

  294. LBascom says:

    “I pass the ball a lot when I play hoops though, eat everything on my plate and still think plaid skirts are very attractive.”

    I used to eat everything on my plate, then I met an Asian person that told me that was rude, the host loses face because it shows you didn’t get enough to eat.

    And all those years I was worried about starving children in China.

    Being good is hard!

  295. bh says:

    Uh oh, Lee. I must owe a few thousand apologies.

  296. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Not in Chisum he wasn’t

  297. sdferr says:

    He was in the Combat series though.

  298. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – I didn’t have a problem with Krauthammer’s initial reaction and analysis the day it happened. It’s that he won’t shut up about it, which isn’t helpful and sort of negates the very thing hes going on about, active support once the die is cast.

    – She was down about the same against Castle when she started just three days before the primary election. she’s still got more than a month to campaign and she has some class people on her team, and a very vulnerable opponent. Maybe if the good Doctor would stop being so helpful…..

  299. happyfeet says:

    oh.

    well yeah you gotta keep an eye out for those

  300. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Vic Morrow shot Billy the Kid who once was his friend.

    But then Billy shot him back, so everything was okay again.

    Except for Vic, because he was dead.

  301. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Combat’s before my time sdferr, but my Dad loved it.

    I used to watch Rat Patrol reruns on Saturdays on WGN. I always thought that was the penultimate guys show: cars and machine guns. Only the girls were lacking.

    Christopher George was a bad guy in Chisum too.

  302. Big Bang Hunter says:

    – Do I want to date myself this badly – Oh what the hell…..

    – For me it was the speghetti serials at the local movie house on Saturdays……the original black and white “Rocket Man”. And of course dozens of radio serials, from Sky King and Sargent Preston of the royal mounties, to inner sanctum and the Shadow.

    – Early TV was an evening affair starting with the 9pm news followed by all star wrestling from the LA Coliseum til midnight. Later it was the first variety shows like Uncle Milties 4 star theater and the hit parade, all on a 12 inch black and white Muntz.

  303. Rupe says:

    There are evil trees out there feets. Jesus was only talking about gardening so relax.
    Ernst- I watched Rat Patrol on WGN with my Dad. It does seem silly now, as nobody would take on a tank with a jeep. COMBAT still holds up most of the time. I also seem to remember watching Rollerderby on WGN. That 747 was a lot of woman!!!

  304. Danger says:

    <a href=http://www.militaryinfo.com/news_story.cfm?textnewsid=516.Why soldiers fight

    “American soldiers in Iraq responded similarly to their ancestors about wanting to return home, but the most frequent response given for combat motivation was “fighting for my buddies,” Wong’s report said.

    The report uncovered two roles for social cohesion in combat.

    One role is that each soldier is responsible for group success and protecting the unit from harm. As one soldier put it, “That person means more to you than anybody. You will die if he dies. That is why I think that we protect each other in any situation. I know that if he dies, and it was my fault, it would be worse than death to me.”

    The other role is it provides the confidence and assurance that someone is watching their back. In one infantryman’s words, “You have got to trust them more than your mother, your father, or girlfriend, or your wife, or anybody. It becomes almost like your guardian angel.”

    There is a lesson to apply to this, if one considers it sincerely.

  305. Ernst Schreiber says:

    [366] So fought they like unto blazing fire, nor wouldst thou have deemed that sun or moon yet abode, for with darkness were they shrouded in the fight, all the chieftains that stood around the slain son of Menoetius. But the rest of the Trojans and the well-greaved Achaeans fought at their ease under clear air, and over them was spread the piercing brightness of the sun, and on all the earth and the mountains was no cloud seen; and they fought resting themselves at times, avoiding one another’s shafts, fraught with groaning, and standing far apart. But those in the midst suffered woes by reason of the darkness and the war, and were sore distressed with the pitiless bronze, even all they that were chieftains. Howbeit two men that were famous warriors, even Thrasymedes and Antilochus, had not yet learned that peerless Patroclus was dead, but deemed that, yet alive, he was fighting with the Trojans in the forefront of the throng. And they twain, watching against the death and rout of their comrades, were warring in a place apart, for thus had Nestor bidden them, when he roused them forth to the battle from the black ships.

    [384] So then the whole day through raged the great strife of their cruel fray, and with the sweat of toil were the knees and legs and feet of each man beneath him ever ceaselessly bedewed, and his arms and eyes, as the two hosts fought about the goodly squire of swift-footed Achilles. And as when a man giveth to his people the hide of a great bull for stretching, all drenched in fat, and when they have taken it, they stand in a circle and stretch it, and forthwith its moisture goeth forth and the fat entereth in under the tugging of many hands, and all the hide is stretched to the uttermost; even so they on this side and on that were haling the corpse hither and thither in scant space; and their hearts within them were full of hope, the Trojans that they might drag him to Ilios, but the Achaeans to the hollow ships; and around him the battle waxed wild, nor could even Ares, rouser of hosts, nor Athene, at sight of that strife have made light thereof, albeit their anger were exceeding great.

    [400] Such evil toil of men and horses did Zeus on that day strain taut over Patroclus. Nor as yet did goodly Achilles know aught of Patroclus’ death, for afar from the swift ships were they fighting beneath the wall of the Trojans. Wherefore Achilles never deemed in his heart that he was dead, but that he would return alive, after he had reached even to the gates; nor yet thought he this in any wise, that Patroclus would sack the city without him, nay, nor with him, for full often had he heard this from his mother, listening to her privily, whenso she brought him tidings of the purpose of great Zeus. Howbeit then his mother told him not how great an evil had been brought to pass, that his comrade, far the dearest, had been slain.

    [412] But the others round about the corpse, with sharp spears in their hands, ever pressed on continually, and slew each other. And thus would one of the brazen-coated Achaeans say: “Friends, no fair fame verily were it for us to return back to the hollow ships; nay, even here let the black earth gape for us all. That were for us straightway better far, if we are to yield this man to the Trojans, tamers of horses, to hale to their city, and win them glory.”

    [420] And thus in like manner would one of the great-hearted Trojans speak: “Friends, though it be our fate all together to be slain beside this man, yet let none give backward from the fight.”

    [423] Thus would one speak and arouse the might of each. So they fought on, and the iron din went up through the unresting air to the brazen heaven. But the horses of the son of Aeacus being apart from the battle were weeping, since first they learned that their charioteer had fallen in the dust beneath the hands of man-slaying Hector. In sooth Automedon, valiant son of Diores, full often plied them with blows of the swift lash, and full often with gentle words bespake them, and oft with threatenings; yet neither back to the ships to the broad Hellespont were the twain minded to go, not yet into the battle amid the Achaeans. Nay, as a pillar abideth firm that standeth on the tomb of a dead man or woman, even so abode they immovably with the beauteous car, bowing their heads down to the earth. And hot tears ever flowed from their eyes to the ground, as they wept in longing for their charioteer, and their rich manes were befouled, streaming from beneath the yoke-pad beside the yoke on this aide and on that.

    source

  306. Carin says:

    – I didn’t have a problem with Krauthammer’s initial reaction and analysis the day it happened. It’s that he won’t shut up about it, which isn’t helpful and sort of negates the very thing hes going on about, active support once the die is cast.

    I dunno. Krauthhammer’s comments the last few nights on the All Stars have been kinda funny.

    On MOnday, he said he hopes she wins, but that’s she’s a long shot. Last night, he said something – not negative, just pointing out that Castle would have been head, Bret pointed out to direct all angry letters to Charles.

  307. Dave in SoCal says:

    second of all nishi is well within the realm of reason to find the status quo a bit wanting, even if her prescriptions are not what yours or mine might be

    There was this chap some years ago who found the status quo a bit wanting, fellow went by the name of Adolph Hitler. You may have heard of him.

    Even though “his prescriptions were not what ours might be”, are we supposed to give them a fair consideration? Do his ideas merit a fair hearing? Or do we write him off as a foul person who we no longer need to listen to?

    If your answers to the above are “no”, “no” and “yes”, then maybe you can explain how we should treat nishi’s genocidal thoughts any differently.

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