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Are you alarmed yet?

This story uses a tone of dismay. But my question is, how can you be dismayed when good people stomp out loathsome bugs before they get into the walls where they can multiply and possibly infest the entire edifice?

Let the ritual distancings commence!

****
update: or not.

890 Replies to “Are you alarmed yet?”

  1. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i wonder if they were attacked for being racists. they look pretty white bread to me.
    a palin button is a pretty good signifier of racism against minorities.
    Let the new race wars commence!
    hmmm….i wonder who will win?

  2. scooter (still not libby) says:

    The title of your post was rhetorical, wasn’t it?

  3. Jeff G. says:

    Those are ideas she’s leaving in her wake.

    Just so we’re clear.

    Man. I’m so hard right now.

  4. DarthRove says:

    What do you expect? When Obama isn’t allowed to advertise the appropriate target of today’s Two Minute Hate, people gotta find their own.

    I mean, Palin buttons? It’s like they were begging for it. Kinda like a skeezy skeez who wears low-cut tops and gets … wait this is getting close to the need for a *** TRIGGER ALERT ***.

  5. bh says:

    This is why the griefer should only have one high sugar juicebox a day. After two she’s calling for race wars.

    Ideas!

  6. Jeff G. says:

    Hey, Marc at Windsofchange: see comment number one. This is the chick you were so indignant that I was indignant to.

    Let the ritual distancings commence!

  7. DarthRove says:

    Gimme three steps, gimme three steps, mister,
    Gimme three steps t’words the door.
    Gimme three steps, gimme three steps, mister,
    And you’ll never see me no more, for sure.

    Apologies for evoking images of hilljack inbred raaaaacist Southern-fried rockers what are assuredly homophobic and raaaaacisty to boot.

  8. happyfeet says:

    That’s New Orleans for you, really.

  9. happyfeet says:

    you have to be on your toes there

  10. Benedick says:

    “a palin button is a pretty good signifier of racism against minorities.”

    Yeah, I think that pretty neatly captures everything Jeff’s ever written about language and the Left.

  11. prostitute with an ice dong says:

    Seriously, this chick is creepy. Would I get hazard pay?

  12. Jeff G. says:

    Shhh, Benedick.

    Reasonable people just happen to disagree. To those who’ve been the victims of unconscious racism, the unconscious racism of the people wearing those buttons is a clear as any meaning could be. Intent notwithstanding.

    Your pseudo-intellectual ideas of language are laughable. Racist.

  13. JHo says:

    victims of unconscious racism

    Where do I apply for bennies, JG?

  14. Let the new race wars commence!
    hmmm….i wonder who will win?

    Sorry Charlie… Polanski ain’t coming back.

  15. Jeff G. says:

    Here. Let’s take a poll.

    Do Sarah Palin buttons signify subconscious racism (while not committing the wearers to being racist?)

    _____ of course

    _____ no, that’s silly.

    _____ I need more info. Was there a kid calling his dog near an elderly black man?

  16. bh says:

    To answer that I’d need to know the Palin buttons position on stem cells.

  17. Slartibartfast says:

    A and B.

  18. Kent18 says:

    i wonder if they were attacked for being racists. they look pretty white bread to me.
    a palin button is a pretty good signifier of racism against minorities.

    A Nishi posting, anywhere and anytime, is an iron-clad signifier of commingled hatred and jaw-breaking imbecility.

  19. Could be the buttons themselves are racist… Just the other day I got my ass beat by a box of Lucky Charms.

  20. Jeff G. says:

    When Nishi leaves a comment that says, simply, “Helter Skelter,” I think we will have reached that cultural evo singularity thingie.

  21. bh says:

    Charles Manson was pretty neat the way he’s just barge into a group and leave a bunch of apocalyptic race war ideas in his wake.

    I mean, Sharon Tate kinda got a raw deal and all but it was still vibrant and mischievous.

    / Bernardine Dohrn off

  22. bh says:

    he’s=he’d.

  23. SDN says:

    I wear Palin T-shirts, have Palin stickers on the truck, never had a problem.

    Of course, I live in TX and routinely carry a .45. Funny how that works out.

    That was the Jindal folks mistake. Carry a gun and be prepared to use it.

  24. Jeff G. says:

    Blood on a wall really does focus the mind, doesn’t it?

    Like good art.

  25. Benedick says:

    Me, I prefer unconscious victims of racism to victims of unconscious racism. I’m old-fashioned that way. FIREHOSE!

  26. Pablo says:

    hmmm….i wonder who will win?

    The ones with the guns.

  27. happyfeet says:

    it might could be that you are a lover but it does not necessarily follow that you are a dancer I don’t think

  28. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Let the new race wars commence!
    hmmm….i wonder who will win?

    Say, a honky calling for a race war. It must be a day ending in Y.

  29. geoffb says:

    Palin buttons? But those can be removed. These kind of people need to be required to have them sewed onto all their clothes so they can be recognized everywhere. Tattoos may be useful too.

  30. Carin says:

    i wonder if they were attacked for being racists. they look pretty white bread to me.
    Racists? Where in the story does it mention which aggrieved minority attacked them?

  31. bh says:

    To stay consistent the griefer would now have to support people distancing themselves from her dangerous hate speech.

    Imagine it:

    Dear Professor X,

    Please read the comment linked herein. Is this someone you feel comfortable being associated with? If so, should I take it that you support race wars?

    Thank you for your time,

    Concerned internet citizen

    The only thing we know for certain is that the griefer is on the record supporting that this be done.

  32. meanwhile…back at the ranch…Charlie’s layin’ it on real heavy about the peace and love thing…and about how we gotta incite the black man or we’ll never get Helter Skelter.

  33. psycho... says:

    A button would have to carry a likeness of a racist who’s better known (and only ever flash-recognized) for something other than racism to “signify subconscious racism.” Like a Che shirt does.

    “Palin” doesn’t signify subconscious anything. It’s like she’s blasting out Freud rays at everybody. I like that.

    However, it makes it easy for whoever runs O!FORCE to use “Palin” to get unpersons’ legs and jaws snapped. Just chant the name enough, and thy will be done. Will be.

  34. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Carin, the race of the attacker is irrelevant. Were the white bread muthafuckas wearing Palin pins or were they not? The rest is obfuscation, man.

  35. Fred says:

    28.Comment by happyfeet on 4/13 @ 11:02 am #

    it might could be that you are a lover but it does not necessarily follow that you are a dancer I don’t think

    See? What the hell is that supposed to even mean? I even scanned up the thread (what a waste of time) to see if I missed something about being a “lover” or a “dancer”, and I don’t think that I did.

  36. Carin says:

    I’m just wondering if we have to send nishi to some sort of re-edjumacation camp. Did she assume the attackers were one of our protected minorities, or did that information appear somewhere?

    I mean, I’ll make plain my bias. I assumed the attackers were members of a union.

    I’m so ashamed.

  37. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Honkies, they love the shame.

    It warms their lilly innards.

    They suck it down like vampires.

  38. arthur dent says:

    Much like Mua’dib, her name is a killing word, I know that carries over from the previous thread

  39. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Fred, don’t feel bad. When feets drops a post that doesn’t scan, I just let it by. It happens about 40% of the time with me.

  40. OI says:

    Still waiting for that bint to say anything intelligent, happy.

    Race war? You don’t want no stinking race war, little girl. You think your pets are going to protect you? They aren’t as dumb as you think they are. They’ll recognize a condescending white bitch in a minute.

  41. Benedick says:

    OI, that assumes they haven’t already recognized and utilized her as such.

  42. OI says:

    Plus, it goes without saying that most, most, most people are not agitating for a race war. An ideological one may just be coming, though.

  43. happyfeet says:

    Fred Mr. Jeff was making Helter Skelter allusions.

    Does that help?

  44. happyfeet says:

    … and bh and cookies

  45. The attackers must have been traumatized by some rude Tea Party signs they saw on Flickr. That obviously means that Tea Partiers are now even more of a public danger, and it’ll only get worse, the more of them are assaulted.

    BTW a dead tree account is here. Since they’ve got layers of fact-checkers and everything…

  46. bh says:

    I kinda get the feeling that the griefer accidentally noticed her own statements for a moment. I’m sure it’ll pass. Self-aware, she ain’t.

  47. sdferr says:

    Something I’m not getting about the written article, so: “fundraising dinner” and “confirmed that the protest had largely broken up”.

    What protest?

  48. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    well…..no…..i think they prolly resented Palin calling them not-real-‘murricans, and associated that with traditional conservative racebaiting.
    because, you know, non-whites aren’t RELLY american citizens or something.
    according to the intentionalism of the Founders.
    :)

  49. happyfeet says:

    I think they’re trying to distance the beaty ones from the people what were protesting Team R.

  50. Jeff G. says:

    I think they’re trying to distance the beaty ones from the people what were protesting Team R.

    Well, help ’em out. Then tell us how those who tend to vote Team R can’t be distanced from the racisty ones.

    Oh. And Nishi? Don’t use words you don’t understand. At the very least, go back and re-read certain conversations with certain intellectually curious dim sum leftovers.

  51. cranky-d says:

    That dim sum is Asian, and you know how smart they are. You’re probably better off agreeing with it, or eating it, or both.

  52. Abe Froman says:

    well…..no…..i think they prolly resented Palin calling them not-real-’murricans, and associated that with traditional conservative racebaiting.
    because, you know, non-whites aren’t RELLY american citizens or something.
    according to the intentionalism of the Founders.

    The obvious problem with that is any ten progressives could be beaten to death by a wiffle ball bat wielding cripple. The thuggishness is typically the result of the low information dependant class being led by the nose and wound up by leftivists. They’re not capable of your perverse brand of deep thinking, least of all in the heat of the moment.

  53. DarthRove says:

    Much like Mua’dib, her name is a killing word,

    arthur dent, sully me not with memories of the piece of trash version of Dune that David Lynch shat onto cellulose. I’d extend my non-forgiveness for that to the De Laurentiis family, but they did give us Giada, so I’m good with them again.

  54. happyfeet says:

    I don’t understand which ones are the racisty ones?

    You know who’s the most racist people I know here in Los Angeles are the hispanics.

    Not really terribly embracing of the African Americans.

  55. cranky-d says:

    I have nishi trollhammered, but just the stuff that is leaking through in other comments is weapons-grade stupid.

  56. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    go back and re-read certain conversations

    i did.
    i still dont get it.
    are you arguing minorities shouldn’t have votes?

  57. Jeff G. says:

    I don’t understand which ones are the racisty ones?

    The ones what worry that the brown ones will take their jobs so they bring up the very unhelpful anti-immigration racisty stuff.

  58. Jeff G. says:

    i did.
    i still dont get it.
    are you arguing minorities shouldn’t have votes?

    Do you have some sort of frontal lobe lesion?

  59. happyfeet says:

    The other day this chicana I know, she said to me, “I hate black people.”

    She just like said it flat out like that after getting off the phone.

    I think it’s cause I’m a Republican from Texas she thought I was all all down.

    So I said to her it’s cause I’m a Republican from Texas that you assume I’m all down with your vile racisms and she laughed.

    Best I could do.

  60. Jeff G. says:

    You could have added, “of course, most Republicans are down with the vile racism. Don’t hate me because I’m special.”

  61. arthur dent says:

    wasn’t that in the original, I have to re read it, it had Sean Young in it, before it was made manifest she was crazy,

  62. happyfeet says:

    oh. *all* down I man not all all…

  63. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Dumb honky can’t read. Ha Ha.

  64. Abe Froman says:

    The only thing shocking there, happy, is that you actually had the balls to admit being a Republican to someone. You’ve earned a cupcake.

  65. happyfeet says:

    If people want to assume I’m racist that’s all on them is my point. You just have to get on with your day.

  66. happyfeet says:

    My friends know I’m Team R.

    This is how I know they’re my friends.

  67. sdferr says:

    You can’t work that into a hostile work environment claim? Dude, you’re slipping.

  68. arthur dent says:

    The former was really touching off psycho’s comment. wasn’t that the way the weirding modules worked, and if anyone is weird it’s matoko-chan

  69. happyfeet says:

    oh. all down I *mean* that should have been

    I will talk to you later.

    Me I’m hostile to the work environment personally so I’d be a fine one to talk.

  70. happyfeet says:

    cupcake! My sister is bringing Texas cupcakes in June for me. From this awesome new place closer to her house and we’re gonna see if they;re better than Yummy Cupcake cupcakes.

    Yummy Cupcakes are the best in the whole Valley I think.

  71. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Do you have some sort of frontal lobe lesion?

    nope, just ‘splain it to me plz.
    YOU SAID……majority rule is unconstitutional.
    what i got was that minorities grouping up to become a majority was against the intentionalism/originalism of the founders/framers.
    yet when white anglosaxon protestants were the majority that was perfectly conformant with the constitution.
    i am confused.
    sry, plz explain.

  72. Jeff G. says:

    YOU SAID……majority rule is unconstitutional.

    Nope. Try again.

  73. scooter (still not libby) says:

    Was it the notion that the constitution is designed to “prevent tyranny of the majority” that is causing the confusion, d’you think?

    I mean, I get that she’s a bit… challenged, but she seems very persistent about that particular point.

  74. arthur dent says:

    Clearly Jeff, the answer is yes, it’s like pig latin and esperanto run through Babelfish

  75. JD says:

    So, nishit approves of violence against its political opponents? Nice. Your words, nishi, the lying genocidal eugenecist.

    i did.
    i still dont get it.
    are you arguing minorities shouldn’t have votes?

    I guess it would be asking way too much for nishit the cunt to provide empirical evidence to support the above referenced asspull.

  76. Slartibartfast says:

    She seems to realize that this is a republic ok, and she seems to understand that majority vote decided congress, but keeping both of those notions in her head simultaneously…just isn’t happening.

  77. Jim Ryan says:

    Show of hands – how many think Nishi believes her BS? And how many believe that Kitely was really “alarmed”?

    Anybody?

    Okay, how many believe those two say the crap they say because they like the adrenaline fix they get from it, the sort of rush of endorphins behind the eyes one gets for saying something “shocking”?

    If you really look into it, Kitely and Nishi’s utterances are not signifiers. They are not intended to signify. They don’t mean. They only are intended to have a somatic effect. Kitely never “wished” to be disassociated from Jeff. He only grunted in an email and then felt a pleasant sensation. Kitely and Nishi aren’t even liars.

  78. Silver Whistle says:

    Bingo, Jim. Two cookies.

  79. cranky-d says:

    My mom had, and my sister has, this weird internal translation unit that takes something said to them and turns it into something else entirely.

    Nishi’s version is turbocharged.

  80. Pablo says:

    If people want to assume I’m racist that’s all on them is my point. You just have to get on with your day.

    Sounds like you should quit the defeatist handwringing and tell your griefer friend to put an ice dong in it.

  81. B Moe says:

    Nishi still hasn’t explained why she thinks a minority did the beating, which minority it was, and how she knows these things.

  82. scooter (still not libby) says:

    cranky, you’re not my brother, are you? I have a similar problem with my sister.

    Sorry, I’m digressing. To get back on topic: Jeff said something about tits. Hear hear!

  83. JD says:

    cranky-d – Better Half and both of my daughters have the same thing. I despise that thingie.

    Nishit the Cumguzzler – which minority did you assume did the beating? And why does your racism get projected onto others?

  84. Carin says:

    well…..no…..i think they prolly resented Palin calling them not-real-’murricans, and associated that with traditional conservative racebaiting

    Called “WHO” not-real-‘murricans? Tell me, did the story signify the beaters in any way? If not, why do you assume it was racial?

  85. Entropy says:

    Fred Mr. Jeff was making Helter Skelter allusions.

    Does that help?

    No.

    No it does not.

  86. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Was it the notion that the constitution is designed to “prevent tyranny of the majority” that is causing the confusion, d’you think?

    Possibly. Proggies have a hard time believing in a government that is not tyrannical. That the way they see it now, and that’s the way they want to use it.

  87. Abe Froman says:

    Tell me, did the story signify the beaters in any way? If not, why do you assume it was racial?

    Exactly. Progressives don’t have the requisite testosterone to have done such a thing themselves. But their illiterate goons span the color spectrum.

  88. JD says:

    Tyranny would be an improvement over what the genocidal nishit would implement. Gulags and all.

  89. JHo says:

    Two cookies.

    nuggie’s mind is like an easybake oven. Snap. Clang. Light cannot escape. Although ds^2 = -left(alpha^2- beta_i beta^iright),dt^2+2 beta_i ,dx^i, dt+ gamma_{ij},dx^i,dx^j.

    Viola. Jesusland takes over an abandoned Earth.

  90. SDN says:

    Seeing as how Palin MARRIED one of those “Not-Real Americans”, someone’s confused, and I don’t think it’s Jeff (or me).

  91. DarthRove says:

    In nishi’s transhuman utopia, would we still have Giada doing soft porn on the Food Network? If so, I may have to change teams.

  92. sdferr says:

    Ritual distancing begun.

  93. JHo says:

    Nishi still hasn’t explained why she thinks a minority did the beating, which minority it was, and how she knows these things.

    Osmosis.

  94. AJB says:

    Ah yes, FreeRepublic. They care so much about human life there:

    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2455220/posts

  95. JHo says:

    look, it’s AJB. Guilting by association. Because the intarwebs, they be monolithic.

  96. JD says:

    So, AJB is an advocate of actual violence against political opponents as well. Good to know.

  97. arthur dent says:

    telepathy, like the people of Kakrafoon

  98. JD says:

    Odd that the actual and verifiable incidents of violence have been done by the peace-lovin tolerant Left.

  99. Slartibartfast says:

    Viola.

    Speaking of which, that Mackenzie Roberts is…talented, no?

  100. happyfeet says:

    has Sarah facebooked this yet has anyone checked?

  101. alppuccino says:

    Time to dust off my brass handled walking stick with the sword hidden inside. Big Palin sticker followed by a brisk round of Street Hibachi.

  102. happyfeet says:

    oh. No. Sarah Palin is by all evidence oblivious to the sufferings of her adherents.

    She has a nice Easter message up though.

  103. happyfeet says:

    She gives props to the Peeps.

  104. JD says:

    alppuccino !!!!!!!! The earth just resumed spinning in the right direction.

  105. JHo says:

    I don’t know, Slart, but Jesusland Earth needs a band, no?

  106. happyfeet says:

    alppuccino you have been Away

  107. JD says:

    happyfeet – nishit is a cumguzzling lying cunt, no?

  108. baxtrice says:

    Malkin’s reporting they’re were no Palin pins involved in this.

  109. happyfeet says:

    I am on Team Spengler I think if I have to pick.

  110. cranky-d says:

    103 was for 90, btw.

  111. happyfeet says:

    JD nishi is… how you say?

    controversial.

  112. JD says:

    No, not at all controversial, happyfeet. Agressively and brazenly dishonest, to the point where she makes Team Dirty Little Socialist look like a paragon of virtue.

  113. JHo says:

    JD may be on to something, ‘feets. And the defamation. Just saying.

  114. happyfeet says:

    JD sometimes you… you have hard edges

    there I said it

  115. JD says:

    Yes, I most certainly do. Sexist.

  116. JD says:

    Gotta run, sorry to miss the eloquent commentary from nishi the cockswallower.

  117. Abe Froman says:

    JD’s hard edges are in service to America.

  118. Gaff says:

    BECAUSE OF THE TRANSHUMANISM!!!111

  119. Silver Whistle says:

    JD sometimes you… you have hard edges

    Ain’t nothing wrong with hard edges, boy. Hard edges are good.

  120. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Kitely never “wished” to be disassociated from Jeff.

    Kitely EXPLICITLY asked to have his name removed from the front page BECAUSE OF DARLEENS “CARTOON”.
    that is EXACTLY what Jeff said in his post…he reprinted his email.
    Can’t you retards even read?

  121. happyfeet says:

    that is a neat picture I send to messenger friend

  122. bh says:

    *** waves at griefer ***

  123. Slartibartfast says:

    I think Jesusland does need a band. And if you’re busy cartooning everything you see, that band must be Five Iron Frenzy, even though I absolutely HATE ska.

    Because we must be cool in our isolation & loss of the upper right tail folks. Whatever the fuck upper right tail means. Maybe it’s nothing at all, and we needn’t worry ourselves.

    For some reason Wikipedia doesn’t list The Alarm or U2 as Christian Rock bands, even though they both pretty much are. Or The Call, for that matter. Sloppy bastards.

    I wish nishi well in her extrasolar adventures. She’s got the right dynamic for the new frontier, all right.

  124. Entropy says:

    Sarah Palin is a slut, republican immigration policies are racist, Tancredo is a veritable NaZi, and yet the bint who calls for a race war (while simultaneously labeling everything under the racist sun racist), is ‘interesting’ and has a ‘unique point of view’ worth consideration.

  125. Slartibartfast says:

    There’s a cartoon made out of Darleens? Cool.

  126. Slartibartfast says:

    I thought there was only one of her, but I’m probably wrong about that.

  127. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Actually, Kitely said that he no longer wished to be associated with the kind of stuff that Jeff had on his blog. He mentioned Darleen’s cartoon as an outlier, not as the sole instance.

    So it would again appear that your dumb honky ass can’t read.

  128. JHo says:

    Kitely…BECAUSE…DARLEEN.

    That is all.

  129. sdferr says:

    oh, I thought the point was merely that you and everyother commenter here is either talking to her or about her Entropy. Willy-nilly, she owns the joint. See? Even though I’d rather not, I’m doing it right here.

  130. Slartibartfast says:

    Can’t you retards even read?

    More kettle calling the polished stainless-steel stockpot black.

    Irony meter is already way busted, so: *yawn*

  131. Gaff says:

    Well, we know you can’t read Nishi. You must have evolved beyond it.

  132. Abe Froman says:

    Kitely EXPLICITLY asked to have his name removed from the front page BECAUSE OF DARLEENS “CARTOON”.
    that is EXACTLY what Jeff said in his post…he reprinted his email.
    Can’t you retards even read?

    It’s a rare occurrence, but your stupidity actually caused an outburst of laughter this time. The better question is can you comprehend what you read?

  133. Entropy says:

    Kitely never “wished” … Kitely EXPLICITLY asked

    There she goes dropping those ‘facts’ on us and forcing us to consider them, like the fact she can conflate the 3.d definition of “wish” with the 1.a definition and thus chuck the entire idea of even trying to discern meaning into the ash heap and instead argue against everything you say with semantics.

    Facts is facts, wingnuts, and that is a fact. You’ve got to give her that.

    So long as that fool Webster keeps listing more then one usage she can just keep madlibbing your arguments into random nonsense and then congratulating herself.

  134. cranky-d says:

    The point is to corral her in this thread, sdferr. We’re taking shifts to keep her in one place. Plus, I’m a bit bored.

  135. sdferr says:

    You’re joking, surely cranky-d. There isn’t one thread she hasn’t toyed with today. It’s like madhouse tuesday around here.

  136. snooki says:

    Malkin’s reporting they’re were no Palin pins involved in this.

    Rutroh, another Backwards B moment?

  137. geoffb says:

    sdferr, “What protest?”

    Got to run. May have been linked already. Here, and here.

  138. B Moe says:

    Kitely EXPLICITLY asked to have his name removed from the front page…

    I have empirical evidence that Kitely’s name was never on the front page before he asked to have it removed from the about page.

  139. geoffb says:

    Nishi≡∅

    That is all.

  140. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    hahaha…..no palin pins
    this is just like that retard that cut a backwards B on her face and tweeted about it.
    twitter is going to be your doom simpletons.

  141. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    lulz….i thot he was he was in the rotating quotes….ppl have have ax to get out of there before.
    my bad.
    :)

  142. Silver Whistle says:

    Retard
    :)

  143. Entropy says:

    oh, I thought the point was merely that you and everyother commenter here is either talking to her or about her

    Which brings me to the second commonality between these two I have observed, besides the fact they both think apparently agree that “Team R” = ‘le raciste!’

    Both appear to be perversely fascinated with nihilistic demagoguery and power grabs. The rational or circumstances matters less than the cleverness of the plot and it’s success at getting whatever it wants will to power style.

    Nishi is over there giggling with glee over the ruthless tactical efficacy of calling everyone racist or importing socialists to change demographics, meanwhile Happy is apparently fascinated that she can successfully derail a discussion by injecting viscious lies and incoherant nonsense into it every 2 seconds.

    What is more interesting, and what eludes me, is why he tells US not to emulate that behavior he finds so admirable, but to shut the hell up and try to coast under the radar with excessive meekness.

    He certainly doesn’t extend that fascination with commanding attention and controlling the message (in whatever method possibly, to whatever end possible) to OUTLAW type republicans who say controversial things. Those, he calls names. Tancredo’s a NaZi, Palin’s a whore, but Ms. Racewar McMissthepoint is ‘interesting’.

    There’s definetly something interesting about this. I just have no idea what.

  144. JHo says:

    ppl have have ax, Silver Whistle, ppl have have ax.

  145. Abe Froman says:

    twitter is going to be your doom simpletons.

    We’re still waiting for the racial epithets and spit wads, Klingon.

  146. sdferr says:

    What I find most interesting isn’t what either hf or nishi does, but what the rest of us,– presumably reasonable and particularly interested in the order our Government will take (will it be a Constitutionally limited Government of freemen or a tyranny of experts?) — do in response to to them. We’re responsible for our responses, for cripes sakes. Moreover, it’s not like this turn of events is anything new, — though it hasn’t been the norm for a while now — and still there’s an apparent kneejerk to distraction.

  147. happyfeet says:

    jeez Entropy the backwards B comment was kinda funny at least I think…

    hey

    wouldn’t it be fascinating to know how Palin got involved? … maybe her pins are as opportunistic as she is

  148. Jeff G. says:

    Fake but accurate.

    There’s truthiness here. A lesson to be learned. Anyone can do facts.

  149. Carin says:

    The point is to corral her in this thread, sdferr. We’re taking shifts to keep her in one place. Plus, I’m a bit bored.

    >3

  150. bh says:

    Look at this from five months ago. Then note that she’s simply repeated this (albeit with the fun new addition of calling for a race war) over and over and over again.

    *** everyone wave at the griefer ***

  151. Jeff G. says:

    and still there’s an apparent kneejerk to distraction.

    Meta commenting counts too. Just so you know.

    Me, all’s I can say is I try to use what some of our friends here bring up as grist for the conversation mill.

    If I’m failing, I’m failing.

  152. Silver Whistle says:

    One step at a time, sdferr. Baby steps. First one, this November. Purge, purge again, repeat as necessary. Don’t forget this has happened. But we will, and it will happen again. But baby steps.

  153. Entropy says:

    What is fake but accurate?

  154. Carin says:

    I think Jesusland does need a band. And if you’re busy cartooning everything you see, that band must be Five Iron Frenzy, even though I absolutely HATE ska.

    How ’bout Five Finger Death Punch? they kinda have that America -FUCK YA attitude.

  155. happyfeet says:

    Mr. sdferr I find it highly unlikely you should want to do anything in response to me.

    a.) I am the staunchest one.

    b.) The dirty socialists, I hates them.

    no for serious what are you planning?

  156. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i dont see a mention of Palin pins anywhere on the web but here and malkin….who tipped you to this Jeff?
    Freepers?
    AMG.
    sukkah.
    :)
    btw that Breitbart tape was shot an hour after Pelosi and Lewis linked arms and marched on Selma the congressional chamber to pass HCR.
    Aren’t you gettin sick of Breitbart hanging out to dry yet?
    the guy is a grifter just like Palin.

  157. Carin says:

    Kinda like how there wasn’t anywhere in the story about the attacker’s minority status.

    Just saying.

  158. sdferr says:

    All commenting counts, so far as I can see, meta or otherwise. What I can’t help but wonder is how come we, not you as initiator Jeff, how come we don’t patrol our own hierarchies of salience before charging off down some pointless road to nishian stupidity, is all.

  159. happyfeet says:

    AMG is the name of one of those medical marijuana places near my hoose.

    I think it stands for American Marijuana Group but they just use the initials in a sort of Oakley-inspired font.

    If I needed the medical marijuana that’s probably where I’d go cause it’s next to a really awesome mediterranean place.

  160. Mike LaRoche says:

    Stuck Mojo should be Jesusland’s official band.

  161. Slartibartfast says:

    Pelosi and Lewis linked arms and marched on Selma

    Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we arehave free healthcare at last!

    That is less resonatey, I think.

  162. Jeff G. says:

    who tipped you to this Jeff

    I heard there was gonna be a race war. I was just trying to get ahead of the curve.

  163. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    its gamespeak for Ah My Gawd

    ok Jeff…just explain why the constitution was functional as long as non-hispanic white was a majority, but will be non-functional when non-hispanic white becomes a minority.
    you can do it.

  164. Pablo says:

    Retard, you say?

    Hyperlinks are so White Evangelical Christian.

  165. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    haha, there is a race war.
    and white conservative christians have been prosecuting it since 1776.
    <3

  166. Mike LaRoche says:

    the guy is a grifter just like Palin.

    And nishi is a cudlips just like that Dem congressman who said Guam is going to capsize.

    lulz. ;)

  167. Slartibartfast says:

    just explain why the constitution was functional as long as non-hispanic white was a majority, but will be non-functional when non-hispanic white becomes a minority

    My WTF-o-meter is hopelessly abused. Please stop fucking with it.

    Oh, and build that argument. I know you can.

  168. Jeff G. says:

    you can do it.

    I have. But I think you have your causal connections all crazied up.

    That sometimes happens when you take them into space I hear.

  169. B Moe says:

    Apparently relentless stupidity kills monarchs. Who knew?

  170. sdferr says:

    “no for serious what are you planning?”

    Gave a hint yesterday hf, but what I have in mind isn’t the sort of thing one plans, exactly, other than to accept the opportunity when it arises. Which either happens of its own happenstantual origin or doesn’t. Which is an obscure way of saying, it’s a cosmoi, uncreated kind of thing. And will is involved. To modify the old saw: where there’s a will, there’s a possibility.

  171. B Moe says:

    I think the time-travel caused her brain sections to not line up right, like in that Crighton book.

  172. happyfeet says:

    I just don’t like the sound of that at all.

  173. Pablo says:

    Ah! Midline shift. That explains everything.

  174. dicentra says:

    Was it the notion that the constitution is designed to “prevent tyranny of the majority” that is causing the confusion, d’you think?

    Hard to say. I explained in that one thread (late, late in the thread) that intentionalism has nothing to do with turning back the clock. It has nothing to do with returning to Version 1.0 of the Constitution, with only ten amendments.

    Nishi declined to comprehend what I said, so I think she must have misunderstood her own argument—the BBs in her head having shifted in the meantime, shorting out different wires.

    (1) I’m not sure, Nishi, why you would think that ANYONE in this country so much as contemplates taking the vote away from the folks what have it now. It’s as if you were trying to get Jeff on record as being against flaying himself alive. It’s that absurd.

    (2) We’re not in a democracy (direct voting by the populace), we’re in a Republic, with representatives, which tends to mitigate the impact of the majority.

    (3) “Preventing the tyrrany of the majority” means that the majority can’t vote to piss in the cornflakes of minorities simply because they can, e.g., Christians don’t get to pass laws intended to aflict atheists just because Christians are in the majority.

    (4) Also, I’m not sure why you think we have a problem with the “browning” of America. Nobody here gives a rip about the cosmetic appearance of the people in congress, the white house, or SCOTUS. Do you? If so, why?

  175. JHo says:

    haha, there is a race war.
    and white conservative christians have been prosecuting it since 1776.

    Keep strawmanning like that, nuggie, and soon nobody will believe you about anything.

  176. Jeff G. says:

    Okay. Let’s see if we here can refuse to take further bait.

    I admit, I like the long comment threads. But I’d prefer they sometimes stay on topic.

  177. bh says:

    Brain lesions also give you Ideas!

  178. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i think Jeff should know better than to link freepers as first source.
    this is playin’ out just like that dimbo that cut a backwards B into her cheek.
    the thing is…..you aren’t even smart enough to be able to fake it.
    Breitbart tries real hard, but he gets caught too.
    you’re just all butthurt because ever one hates joo, so you try to fake injury.

  179. bh says:

    I broke that idea in under a minute. I suck.

  180. Slartibartfast says:

    strawpersonning

  181. bh says:

    Okay, to the topic at hand. Pablo’s link has lots of updates.

  182. Jeff G. says:

    I smell bacon.

  183. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    just explain why the constitution was functional as long as non-hispanic white was a majority, but will be non-functional when non-hispanic white becomes a minority.
    I did.

    if you have explained it, link please.
    i missed it…..these threads get so long when i visit.

  184. JHo says:

    I’d prefer they sometimes stay on topic.

    Doing what I can, boss.

  185. sdferr says:

    geoffb to his credit as well bh

  186. bh says:

    Yep, sdferr.

  187. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    but JHo it is true…..Jefferson wanted to make slavery illegal, and south carolina refused to join the Union if that was so.
    Look it up.
    :)

  188. sdferr says:

    A suicide-by-cop in New Orleans East Friday night;
    A man murdered by a shot to the head in New Orleans East on Saturday;
    Eight people shot on the corner of Canal and Royal Saturday night, within a couple of blocks of a full police deployment;
    A murder in Marrero early Sunday morning;
    A triple shooting in the Bayou St. John area on Monday morning;
    A double murder in the 7th Ward on Monday afternoon.

    With a police blotter that full, it really isn’t that much of a surprise that an attack which didn’t involve someone dying or gunplay wasn’t an immediate big story. Should what is being reported pan out, however, it’s likely the Brennan’s attack will have more legs than the others.

    Busy busy cops. Anybody here living there now?

  189. Pablo says:

    Okay, to the topic at hand. Pablo’s link has lots of updates.

    Which would be the one and only link, identified as the source in the Freeper piece.
    AMG.
    sukkah.
    :)
    lawl.

  190. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    that was the start of the race war in America……1776.
    people have been choosing sides ever since.
    :)

  191. Pablo says:

    Whoops.

  192. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    well Pablow, Jeff didnt read the updates, an Malkin did i guess.
    Jeff is simply credulous to link Brietbart and freepers…..they get ganked with the truth all the time.

  193. sdferr says:

    No Palin pins involved. Except the possible saying of Palin pins, reported by someone quoting a victim of the beating, saying what they had overheard, which in itself wouldn’t have involved Palin pins to start with. Who’s to say, other than the perpetrators, what the perpetrators thought they knew? After all we’re told, perceptions rule.

  194. Slartibartfast says:

    Jefferson wanted to make slavery illegal

    Not so bad that he got rid of his own slaves, though. And you have to admit the guy did a number on the Natives.

  195. Silver Whistle says:

    A broken leg, a concussion … no, nothing to see here. Move along now, people.

  196. McGehee says:

    Were the victims wearing Palin pins previously, at the rally, where they might have been seen and remembered?

  197. Abe Froman says:

    If Nishi ever gained a modicum of self-awareness she’d hang herself from the nearest tree.

  198. happyfeet says:

    well the point is that there’s just no reason to be beating on people pin or no pin

    but the real crime here is the condescending attitude towards New Orleans that we’re all gonna pretend that it’s not a dangerous toxic cesspit best left alone.

    It’s scary.

    People need to grok that or more people are going to get hurt.

  199. sdferr says:

    The way the ontology runs these days McGehee, all that’s needed is for the perpetrators to believe about the victims that the victims wore Palin pins: no physical pin-like object required. Beat them! And don’t bother to steal their stuff. It’s tainted with WEC taint and feh!

  200. arthur dent says:

    The Freeper piece had the link to the Hayride, which in turn contained a number of posts, including the Times Picayune. more legit that mcClatchy quoting the Huff Po about an event that never happened

  201. Entropy says:

    Expiriment: fail.

    You’ve got to main-page it or half will never read it.

  202. JHo says:

    Shut up, nuggie. Look it up.

  203. alppuccino says:

    alppuccino !!!!!!!! The earth just resumed spinning in the right direction.

    alppuccino you have been Away

    I assume from the capital “A” in “Away”, you’re referring to my short stay at the Trembling Hills Drooling Academy. I’m all better now.

  204. happyfeet says:

    oh yes I know it well… they have these little raspberry shortbread cookies there I never could figure out how to make…

    it is nice to have you back

  205. happyfeet says:

    I’m just kidding I only tried making cookies the one time with the persimmons and even with y’all’s help it was cookie fail.

  206. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    lawl…..did i ever think id see the day when Hot Air was saner than Protein Wisdom?

    My first thought was of that infamous hoax just before the 2008 election when a campaign worker in Pittsburgh claimed an Obama supporter had carved a “B” in her cheek.

    You are looking for love in all the wrong places, Jeff.
    Modern culture rejects “conservatism” like a disease.
    even if you try to rebrand it as “classic liberalism”.
    you arent foolin anyone.

  207. sdferr says:

    Though the cops be busy, this is supposed to be the Governor’s staffer. If the Governor can’t see the investigation through to a sensible resolution, what will that fact say about the pull of the Governor’s office in his own State?

    Yet, the Hayride person can write: “Should what is being reported pan out, however, it’s likely the Brennan’s attack will have more legs than the others.”

    “Should what is being reported”, it seems to me, doesn’t have to go any farther than “Staffer and boyfriend beaten, with concussion and broken leg resulting”. Leg’s broken is legs enough, no?

  208. SteveG says:

    Anyone who exudes unconscious racism: to wit, leaving a gathering of Republicans while white should be stomped unconscious so they can get in touch with their unconscious self… maybe have a vision of their inner racism from the vantage point of a coma.

    Anarchists are a minority and they should be allowed to practice their lifestyle on government subsidy. Otherwise the talent pool for stomping people and burning shit at Republican gatherings who be limited to union thugs.

    Maybe next time the SEIU can bus in some muggers fresh out of Angola and spread them around in the parking lots. Maybe pay a bounty.

  209. bh says:

    True, SteveG. We can’t have these scabs stealing union jobs!

  210. alppuccino says:

    muggers

    Typo?

  211. alppuccino says:

    I’ll try to be less wind-like and be more waterfall-like.

  212. SteveG says:

    “who be limited to union thugs.” should be “would be limited to union thugs”

    The opening sentence was FUBAR too but thankfully most people here are smart enough to gauge intent.

  213. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    muggers

    Typo?

    yeah, he meant niggers, al.

  214. happyfeet says:

    I’m trying to find sarsaparilla on the internet cause NG has never had.

    it’s all effing spensive so far

  215. happyfeet says:

    oh. I guess it’s only spensive if you insist on a cool bottle.

  216. alppuccino says:

    HA! Nishi. Made you say it!

  217. alppuccino says:

    You’re just my ball of yarn Nishi.

  218. Squid says:

    Modern culture rejects “conservatism” like a disease.
    even if you try to rebrand it as “classic liberalism”.
    you arent foolin anyone.

    Yeah, being left alone to live one’s life in peace is so unfashionable these days. Now, all the kool kids want to live in perpetual childhood, content to do whatever chores their local Progressive Parents give to them, and to accept whatever allowance they’re given.

    Permanent dependence! It’s what’s for dinner!

  219. Jeff G. says:

    I am not a reporter. Don’t claim to be one.

    For those of you who remain confused.

    Sometimes, people send me stories, and I link to them. Like in this case, where I pointed to a story and commented on its “dismayed” tone. I then noted (in my way) that it makes no sense to sound dismayed, given that the people the story thought responsible have already told the story writing people that they are subhuman cancers deserving of marginalization and death.

    I don’t think that’s changed.

    But I did post the update right after someone linked the Malkin piece in the comments.

    Just the way I roll.

  220. sdferr says:

    C’mon happyfeet, you don’t have anything to say about what SteveG meant? Really? Personally I thought he meant to type Muggles, since the WEC are so all fired magicalrealists with their Jesus wizardry. But hey, what do I know?

  221. sdferr says:

    Hostile workplace environment. h/t Insty

    It is understood that the man was a close friend of Mr Amor and was not offended. However, it was overheard by someone else who lodged a formal complaint.

  222. happyfeet says:

    I really kind of wanted to move along to the sarsaparilla part of the discussion. Sort of quickly, really.

  223. sdferr says:

    I shouldn’t be alarmed then. Ok.

  224. happyfeet says:

    I didn’t say you shouldn’t be alarmed what I said was about the sarsparilla.

    Sometime you have just seconds to make a call.

  225. happyfeet says:

    *sometimes* I mean

  226. happyfeet says:

    I saw that about the guy that killed himself.

    They should make a movie I think.

  227. sdferr says:

    To me anyhow, it’s sort of less about the self-killer guy and more about his boss the suspender and his friend the unoffended. But that’s just me.

  228. SteveG says:

    It’d be racist to assume that there are not any capable white muggers on parole from Angola….

  229. sdferr says:

    Oh. I guess that was a swing and a miss on the Muggles then, my bad.

  230. Jeff G. says:

    Doesn’t matter what he intended, sdferr — or even who his audience was. A reasonable person reasonably heard otherwise. Like an elderly black gentleman overhearing a child calling his dog.

    That’s enough for courts of law. And businesses looking to take the path of least resistance.

    No harm, no foul. Plus, one less guy dirtying the planet with his CO2 footprint.

    And anyone who says otherwise should just stick his pseudo-intellectual talk about language right up his racist ass!

  231. happyfeet says:

    no i agree that’s why you need a movie to tell the whole story

  232. happyfeet says:

    maybe Anthony Head for the doomed guy?

  233. Civilis says:

    I love watching Nishi trying and failing to understand American culture. She’s claiming to both be avant-guard and hip, tech-savy to the point of geeky, and have her finger on mainstream America at the same time, and failing miserably at all three. She’s running off her own perceptions, which are viewed ultimately through the pinhole lens of her support for abortion rights and which distorts everything she sees.

    A lot of the values contained in the framework of Classical Liberalism (which has some overlap with but is not the same as either Conservatism and Libertarianism) are on the upswing in American culture. These include demanding fiscal responsibility of government at all levels, demanding more responsibility from the recipients of government benefits, the understanding that some services are best handled outside of the government, and a sort of lassiez-fare approach to social mores where government blessing is not involved).

    What happyfeet seems to not understand is that these are in general a more populist strain of classical liberalism, or classical liberalism approached at a populist level. Unchecked populism in general is something I fear, although this may be the most benign incarnation we could see. While stopping illegal immigration may cost the Republicans some votes as it is, my wager would be an explicitly populist agenda stealing from both parties, while being ultimately bad for classical liberalism and from a classical liberal standpoint, would be the perfect political storm in most of the country; combine opposition to illegal immigration and welfare reform from the right with an isolationist foreign policy, a protectionist and anti-outsourcing trade policy, a soak-the-rich-and-big-business tax scheme, and promises of free health care and a unicorn in every pot and you could win elections if winning elections is all you care about.

  234. sdferr says:

    Values, framework, culture. Trifecta! Populism as the enlightenment project? Whipped cream on the Sundae.

  235. happyfeet says:

    I don’t think her perceptions are viewed ultimately through the pinhole lens of her support for abortion rights. That’s not really nishi’s lens I don’t think.

    But also no I don’t think immigration is a shining opportunity just waiting there, shining, for Team R to grasp it.

  236. SteveG says:

    By the way Nishi….. backhanded, clever barbs, are part of the fun.

    Try to keep up…

    Oh yeah, you owe me an apology for connecting me to a word used as a racial slur… not a clever, backhanded apology either.

    Then we can move on and resume the jousting.

  237. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Still waiting for your link Jeff.
    :)

  238. dicentra says:

    Jefferson wanted to make slavery illegal

    Not so bad that he got rid of his own slaves, though.

    The first thing Jefferson did when he was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses was to introduce a bill to make it legal to free your own slaves. Because it wasn’t, at the time. The bill failed.

    They were also worried about what would happen when they let their slaves go: how would they fend for themselves? It wasn’t as if people were beckoning to the freed blacks to come work for them and live in their neighborhoods and stuff.

    Or what if they all fell back on their former masters and slaughtered them all?

    It wasn’t as simple as you’d hope.

  239. Entropy says:

    I do not agree with the idea that classical liberalism is not the same thing as libertarianism, and while classical liberalism certainly is not the same as classical conservatism, I’m not sure it isn’t the same thing as a certain strand of contemporary conservatism.

    You’re splitting the Judean People’s Front off of the People’s Front of Judea here.

    If any disagree I’d like to hear the distinction. Sure, you can attribute some philosophical or political positions to libertarianism, (modern Reagan/Goldwater) conservatism, and classical liberalism, paint them as typical and draw lines. But any distinctions you draw are probably going to be blurry. You can draw the same lines within the movements.

    Not all classical liberals agree on every issue with all other classical liberals, and not all libertarians agree with other libertarians. Especially this is true with liber(als/tarians) who ostensibly value individuality, and tend toward empiricism, reason, and true intellectualism. It’s like herding cats.

    Something like splitting ‘republicans’ and ‘democrats’ within the Madison/Jefferson Democratic Republican Party. Nitpicky and hazy at best. The two terms were sometimes used to represent different social cliques within the party, but they had no substantive differences except in areas where there was a difference between individual to individual, and words like ‘mostly’ or ‘often’ were used to try and shoehorn meaningful distinctions between the groups.

  240. Abe Froman says:

    It wasn’t as simple as you’d hope.

    Nothing is so simple. Except Nishi herself.

  241. Slartibartfast says:

    It wasn’t as simple as you’d hope.

    True. Washington freed most or all of his slaves, and they…well, faceplanted.

    Jefferson’s slaves weren’t sold until after he died. Not emancipated: sold. He emancipated, what, five slaves out of hundreds?

  242. happyfeet says:

    Mr. Entropy this is very succinct what Mr. G found.

    Classical liberty is founded on the belief that all men are created equal; that they should be treated equally under the law; and that they should be permitted the widest liberty of action consistent with public tranquility and the safety of the state.

    everyone gets home in time for dinner

  243. Mikey NTH says:

    I agree with the updates – the two came out of the event and were set upon. The injuries received were real. The motivation appears to be anti-Republican and/or anti-conservative.

    And who has fostered this climate of hate?

    Well, of course it must be Chimpy McHalliBusHitler and Darth Cheney! BUUUUUSHHHHH!!!!!

  244. SteveG says:

    Ahem…. Nishi?

  245. Pablo says:

    But I did post the update right after someone linked the Malkin piece in the comments.

    …which was well after your original post, as was the Hayride update, Mr. Can’t Work a Time Machine and Therefore Ain’t Going to Space With the Transhumanists.

  246. dicentra says:

    I do not agree with the idea that classical liberalism is not the same thing as libertarianism, and while classical liberalism certainly is not the same as classical conservatism, I’m not sure it isn’t the same thing as a certain strand of contemporary conservatism.

    You’re splitting the Judean People’s Front off of the People’s Front of Judea here.

    Classical Liberalism—That stuff what informed the Founding.
    Classical Libertarianism—No need to add “classical” on account of “libertarian” doesn’t need reclaiming. “Libertarian” just means Get Off My Lawn with regard to private behavior and “Bare Minimum” with regard to government size and scope.
    Classical Conservatism—Classical is also superfluous. “Conservative” is always a relative term, defined by what you’re trying to conserve. If you’re trying to conserve the founding principles, then you’re aligned with Classical Liberalism. If you’re trying to conserve Judeo-Christian values, then you overlap with C-Libs but not so much with Libertarians.

    Jefferson’s slaves weren’t sold until after he died. Not emancipated: sold. He emancipated, what, five slaves out of hundreds?

    I haven’t got to the end of the book, yo. So I’m ignernt there.

  247. happyfeet says:

    conflict avoidance is a dead art

  248. happyfeet says:

    hey NG texts with “Sarah Palin earns $12M as non-governor???”

  249. happyfeet says:

    I texted 3 words back.

  250. sdferr says:

    Just as the founder of the Democrat party ought to have been, Jefferson was a lousy steward of finance, even and particularly his own. Spending was his forte, anything else, not so much.

  251. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i’ll apolo SteveG when Jeff links his explanation for me of the Tyranny of the Majority and constitutionalism.
    kk?

  252. SteveG says:

    Quick informative read on Jefferson and slaves

  253. happyfeet says:

    what is Jefferson and His Slaves, Alex?

  254. happyfeet says:

    oh. That’s Alec isn’t it?

    I can’t remember now that I think about it. Is he gay? He always seemed sort of gay I thought.

    Nobody tells me anything.

  255. happyfeet says:

    I know for sure he’s Canadian.

  256. SteveG says:

    Ummm, no

    You owe me the apology. Now. k

  257. SteveG says:

    ooops

    I’m so pissed off I forgot the link http://www.oah.org/pubs/magazine/earlyrepublic/fehn.html

  258. Mikey NTH says:

    And no wonder this thread is so long with the TTP and her poodle following along.

  259. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    haha, make meh.

  260. happyfeet says:

    mikey I am not a poodle I’m your friend, happyfeet

  261. Jeff G. says:

    somebody should tell somebody that she can pick just about any post on identity politics and follow the thinking.

    Voila! Like magical breadcrumbs!

  262. Civilis says:

    I do not agree with the idea that classical liberalism is not the same thing as libertarianism, and while classical liberalism certainly is not the same as classical conservatism, I’m not sure it isn’t the same thing as a certain strand of contemporary conservatism.

    In a sense, I am splitting hairs with my original pronouncement, and I would agree that classical liberalism is one branch included in what is politically called Conservatism (at least in America). I do think, however, that American Conservatism is not a monolithic entity. When Nishi uses the term, she is talking about an imaginary union of the worst of Big Business Plutocratic conservatism and Christian Fundamentalist Theocratic conservatives, both of which are by and large imaginary creations of the left as caricatures. There isn’t a lot of overlap between classical liberalism and social conservatism (although there is little in conflict between the two); one can equally claim to be Classical Liberal and not Social Conservative, Classical Liberal and Social Conservative, and Social Conservative and not Classical Liberal without being hypocritical. A Classical Liberal conservative and a Paleoconservative, on the other hand, should have major policy disagreements although both can rightly be labeled conservative.

    I think the main disagreements between libertarians and classical liberals are in the areas of foreign policy and national security; while that may not apply to all of either category, I expect a libertarian to have a philosophical opposition to nation building and to most of the more controversial homeland security proposals.

    I am almost certain opposition to abortion and related issues and an associated distrust of social conservative Christianity, probably in rebellion to something when she was younger, is Nishi’s primary motivating factor, and she subconsciously justifies her entire worldview based on that. I watched her tear her own philosophical reasoning apart on this very blog as she tried to weasel out of a way that a libertarian could support restrictions on abortion. It incidentally came up in a discussion of slavery; oddly enough, at the time, Nishi the self-proclaimed “libertarian” was cool with slavery as long as the government dictated that the slaves were not human. Kinda puts a whole different spin on this whole debate, doesn’t it? (Incidentally, at the same time, she demonstrated that despite having read/watched all that sci-fi, she had no grasp of one of the major themes of much of modern sci-fi!)

    As for illegal immigration, if any politician in an economically depressed district can relate the current depression of the labor markets (the unemployment rate) to the numbers of illegal immigrants, there is a natural constituency that would love a government interested in removing excess labor from the labor pool. It all depends on the distribution of unemployment vs the distribution of communities with large illegal populations and whether the seats are safe or not. Lots of unemployment, small number of illegals… opposing illegal immigration is a win.

  263. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    dude…..i have read ALL your stuff for years.
    i don’t understand how the tyranny of the majority only operates when non-hispanic whites become the minority.
    link please.

  264. happyfeet says:

    Who trusts social conservative Christianity except for social conservative Christians though really?

    You have to keep an eye on some of them or they off and do wacky shit.

  265. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    civilus, i presume you are making some sort of grossly attenuated reference to Jeff and my discussions of Crick’s Astonishing Hypothesis?
    Since I am a deep believer in Strong AI I think I must call bullshytt on your references.
    link plz.

  266. happyfeet says:

    whaaa? What happened to prom??

    yes. It’s… they’re upset about the lesbian girl at prom.

    So what they’re just gonna cancel prom?

    That’s just how they are, sweetie.

  267. Mike LaRoche says:

    the tyranny of the majority only operates when non-hispanic whites become the minority.

    When has Jeff ever said this?

  268. Makewi says:

    Who trusts social conservative Christianity except for social conservative Christians though really?

    All those Christian charities and hospitals are, like, so totally subversive to my, like, idea of liberty dude. You’re a bigot, which I think is a bit sad really.

  269. happyfeet says:

    I have a thing to do.

  270. happyfeet says:

    I am not a bigot but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think social conservatives aren’t apt to do wacky shit.

    While I’m busy nishi can certainly tell you about the intelligent design nonsense they try and sneak into schools.

    She can go on about it, really.

  271. newrouter says:

    intelligent design nonsense they try and sneak into schools.

    yea but you be cool with progg society design?

  272. sdferr says:

    Good man stoning ripples spread.

    The character of our president is an important matter.

  273. sdferr says:

    “_______ aren’t apt to do wacky shit.”

    Where, _______ fills in quite nicely with “human beings of all sorts”.

  274. happyfeet says:

    I concur.

  275. Rusty says:

    I always figured sasparilla was root beer.
    There was a lady who lived up in the Boundary Waters that would make homemade root beer and sell it to the canoers that dropped by her lake, but she died.

  276. Makewi says:

    Humans are apt to do wacky shit. You focus on this particular set of wacky behavior, pretend it has larger implications, and then consider yourself well pleased with your hard work. Yeah, a bigot.

    You are just fortunate that your bigotry is currently in vogue.

    I do love the idea that school children are too stupid to even be informed that there are competing theories of how life began on earth and yet at the same time need to be lied to that evolution as it is understood somehow proves out abiogenesis. Somehow this is a win for science.

  277. sdferr says:

    We made the root beer once, in about 1964 I think. Came home from church and sitting on the bed reading a comic book when the stuff exploded it’s gallon glass jars. Scary root beer. No, cutty-slashy root beer. A&W’s best, still.

  278. Rusty says:

    My dog likes bananas.

  279. happyfeet says:

    sarsparilla isn’t just sarsparilla I don’t think there’s…

    some other extract involved a lot…

    it’s starts with an s

    no Makewi what’s quite in vogue is a certain varietal of Christian acting very victimy and persecuted and embracing all of the most tiresome tropes of the identity politics of the dirty socialists I think

  280. Makewi says:

    I don’t have a dog. My wife made some excellent chicken with a sweet coating made from banana chips last Sunday. Yummy.

  281. sdferr says:

    Do you have banana tree Makewi?

  282. Makewi says:

    Yeah, it would be better if we just shut up and took it right happy? Best if we know our place and all.

  283. happyfeet says:

    that’s definitely scary…

    at Ralph’s they have root beer in a little barrel you can buy

    it’s very cute but it’s a lot of root beer really

  284. happyfeet says:

    Is that what I said Mr. Makewi no it is not.

  285. sdferr says:

    That was when I learned the powers of the yeasts hf, and have tried to befriend them ever since.

  286. Makewi says:

    I do not have any trees, sadly. I live in a condo some stories up and have no room for a tree. If I ever get land here, I will have banana trees and papaya and mango and orange and lemon.

    Oh, I guess there must be gun trees round about these parts. I never seen em though.

  287. Makewi says:

    I guess I’m not sure where the acting all victimy part comes in.

  288. Entropy says:

    Classical liberty is founded on the belief that all men are created equal; that they should be treated equally under the law; and that they should be permitted the widest liberty of action consistent with public tranquility and the safety of the state.

    Sounds like Libertarianism to me.

    Classical Liberalism—That stuff what informed the Founding.
    Classical Libertarianism—No need to add “classical” on account of “libertarian” doesn’t need reclaiming. “Libertarian” just means Get Off My Lawn with regard to private behavior and “Bare Minimum” with regard to government size and scope.

    Um… OK isn’t 2 also 1? 6 and a half dozen? What ‘stuff’ informed the founding more than what is fundemental to libertarianism?

    Granted, today’s self-identified “libertarians” are pretty secular and not so god-bothered, while todays “libertarian-leaning conservative” isn’t and is, and today’s “social conservative” may or may not be libertine at all. But Jefferson was no choir boy and Ron Paul doesn’t like it when you kill babies.

    Many libertarians are fairly conservative socially, and many conservatives (of the CL sort) are not so hot on pushing all their social views poltically. There are also social differences to be certain, between our society now and then, but that’s equal part something else as well.

    Classical Conservatism

    Half yes, half no.

    As for what you’re saying – conservatives conserve, “classical” before conservative is still a useful distinction because of precisely what you said, what it is they’re trying to conserve has changed. In the time when classical liberals were called ‘liberal’ conservatives were authoritarian statists.

    But moreover than anything there is an epistemological distinction in the views.

    Traditionally “conservatives” are in fact reactionary traditionalists. Conservatives suscribed to the view that says old is good because it is old. They were reverse progressives, following Customary Historicism. Liberals of that time (classical liberals) were nothing of the sort. At the time of the founding the conservatives were monarchists.

    Regardless of whom they’re currently playing useful idiots to, it is distinct from a view in Natural Order or Natural Right that is, in a sense, ahistorical. In that what’s right is right – it doesn’t matter what you did yesterday or will do tommorow. It’s neither the Old being the Sacred Revered nor the New being some automagical teleological improvement.

    Since they were both primarily concerned at the time with stopping Pinkos Gone Wild espousing Customary History’s arch-enemy and antithesis, Philosophical Historicism, much of that meaning behind ‘conservatives’ became inoperative when old-school liberals orphaned of a name by FDR followed Goldwater to a promised name that was mostly uninhabited and dusty and done colonized it, knocking down the walls and semi-orphaning the Paleo-Cons who thought at that time being a ‘true conservative’ meant drinking Beefeater brand martinis and not letting Jews in your country club.

    At least that’s my take.

  289. Makewi says:

    Lady Gaga says stop fucking. Probably cuz of the dirty social conservatives have done gone and brainwashed her or something.

  290. sdferr says:

    “orphaned of” meant to be orphaned off?

  291. happyfeet says:

    I will give serious thought to Lady Gaga’s pronouncements.

    I went to three Nordstrom’s with my sister’s friend here in L.A. looking for Lady Gaga’s…

    lip gloss I think it was.

    That sort of thing fills me with awe.

  292. Entropy says:

    “orphaned of” meant to be orphaned off?

    Orphaned of a name, orphaned off a name?

    I think either works actually…

  293. happyfeet says:

    We never found any, btw.

    All sold out.

    You never know if that’s on purpose or not.

    How cool is that?

  294. happyfeet says:

    There was a lady who lived up in the Boundary Waters that would make homemade root beer and sell it to the canoers that dropped by her lake, but she died.

    I love that story.

  295. JHo says:

    when Jeff links his explanation for me of the Tyranny of the Majority and constitutionalism.

    Said the damagethoughcopypastebot. Bzztlinklinklink. I can’t feel the sensors in my replaceable silicone suckers, Dave.

  296. Civilis says:

    For those too bored to scroll through the comments looking for the incident to which I refer, several years back, when Nishi had a different user name, I put forth in a discussion on abortion that libertarians could disagree on abortion, as the answer to the philosophical question of when life began was not a tenet of libertarianism. As an example, I used a theoretical question of the fate of a construct (AI, uplift animal, clone, etc.) that claimed to be sentient. The creator of the construct claimed that the construct was his property, any seeming intelligence was in fact illusory, and as such a libertarian should respect property rights. An advocate for the construct claimed that the construct was in fact intelligent and as such deserved the same rights as a human, which any libertarian should agree with. Whether or not the construct should have rights was a matter of philosophy, and a rational libertarian could come down on either side; as in abortion, the philosophical question of when a human begins is not covered under the political philosophy of libertarianism. Nishi’s answer was that because the Constitution didn’t specify that constructs had rights, that it was therefore automatically property. I’m not poring through years of Protein Wisdom to find the exact quote.

  297. sdferr says:

    Orphaned of a name, orphaned off as parentless waifs of no known derivation, sad the little things with no genealogy worth the time spent researching. At least, so it has gone in the schools.

  298. happyfeet says:

    oh. My feel is that abortion is more of a litmus test for her than some kind of keystone of her thinkings.

  299. happyfeet says:

    sassafras…

    except sassafras causes cancer and liver damage and such so they decided not to use it anymore.

  300. Mikey NTH says:

    I do not respond to TTPs.

  301. happyfeet says:

    You don’t know how ridiculous that sounds or you wouldn’t say it.

    I’m confident of that.

  302. sdferr says:

    They sure don’t seem to be alarmed:

    Lots of presidents haven’t liked the press. But usually that’s been because the press has been hostile to them. Obama reverses this—he’s hostile because the press has been so obsequious to him, and because he’s secretive, and because he has contempt for them and thinks he can quite literally get away with anything. That’s what happens when the press abdicates its responsibility to tell the truth in as objective a manner as possible. A power-mad thug gets elected, and if he acts thuggish to them, they can hardly complain.

  303. Mikey NTH says:

    As I recall from my twelfth grade government class:

    The USA is a federal republic made up of a national (federal) government and member states; each having a republican (representative) form of government.
    That the federal and state governments have very broad franchises making those republics representative democracies.
    That the federal and state governments are not true democracies as governmental power is exercised through democratically elected representatives.
    That the federal government and the state governments are restricted by the state constitutions and the federal constitution as to what they have power to do.
    That the state and federal governments between each other and within each other break-up or seperate governmental power.
    That this seperation of power is to allow political majority rule while protecting political minority rights.
    That this seperation of power permits the political majority and political minority to exchage places without bloodshed.

    And that is something that the current TTPs do not understand or respect.

  304. newrouter says:

    stockholm syndrome

  305. Jeff G. says:

    Yeah, Civilis. Amazing that we’re now all Xtianists out to take over women’s uteri for Jesus.

    We couldn’t possibly have philosophical differences that require us to at least negotiate the potential rights of a living human in utero.

    If you aren’t all aboard the abortion on demand train, you’re just…well, a miserable social con, or at least, doing their work for them (with your “reluctant pro choice” cop-outs).

    Back in the old days here we used to have principled debates. And nishi’s ridiculous assertion that I require people to stay on my own reservation is belied by the archives, which house those very debates, be it on abortion, SSM, the teaching of intelligent design as a philosophy in order to differentiate it from science and the scientific method, etc.

    Instead, it’s like none of that happened, and this place is but a mere cartoon for a few people to view with requisite sneers so that at the end of the day they can tell themselves how much more nuanced and intellectually hip they are.

  306. geoffb says:

    NO Police release statement.

    New Orleans police say that the incident began about 11:45 p.m. when a group of three to five men made “derogatory comments” to Bautsch and her boyfriend. When the man described as the male victim “turned toward” the group of men, at least one of the men struck him repeatedly. The woman “fell to the ground and screamed,” the news release said.

    Police released a description of one suspect, saying he was in his 20s, looked “dirty,” and wore his hair in an auburn-colored ponytail. The man was 6 feet, 1 inch tall with a thin build, police said. He wore a light-colored T-shirt and dark pants.

    Officers in the area responded and requested EMS assistance. The woman used her purse as a pillow while waiting for help. Once she was in the ambulance, the woman realized her purse was missing, the release said.

    So she had her purse after the attack which makes it less like a mugging.

  307. Jeff G. says:

    We’ll have to hear what the “derogatory comments” were.

  308. sdferr says:

    Indeed, NO police may already know where they don’t want to go.

  309. Entropy says:

    Civilis,

    If you read my response to dicentra I think it mentions a lot that would be relevant in response to you.

    I don’t disagree with what you’re saying about “conservatism” at all, it is a ‘strange bedfellow’ amalgam.

    But, as I said, a ‘certain strain of conservatism’, and libertarianism on the whole, and classical liberalism, are seeming to me to be the same.

    Mind you a certain strain of libertarianism is not… (there’s some goofy “Libertarian” pothead leftists) but that’s the thing about “conservatism” and “libertarianism” is they’re actual contemporary movements that need bedfellows and attract goofballs. ‘Classical Liberalism’ is nice and pure, relatively, because there’s no bandwagon to hop on for a free ride.

    As for abortion, I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever explaining my opposition to most all abortions and support for regulation with my libertarian and secular sentiments. Nor does Ron Paul for that matter. Not that I’m a big Ron Paul guy, he’s goofy on some stuff, but he’s right on others, abortion being one.

    It’s not a debate over the rights of the woman. The woman can do whatever the hell she wants to her body. The fetus is not part of her body. It’s a debate over whether the fetus is a person with rights.

    There’s absolutely nothing ‘libertarian’ about murdering the inconvenient, or euthanizing the useless and weak with, perhaps, a ‘humane gas’.

    Only the rights enjoyed by the least individual are the rights enjoyed by any.

    I realize most self identified “libertarians” don’t probably agree with that view. But – that’s a self selecting group. Not all libertarians are self identified “libertarians” because it’s also a self-marginalizing group that selects a 3rd party in a 2 party system. Many “conservatives”, independant and republican, are effectively libertarian.

    So I don’t think you can take a simple majority among the 3rd party Pot Party goofballs as representive of the whole shebang.

  310. happyfeet says:

    It’s worse when they’re dirty.

  311. Entropy says:

    libertarians could disagree on abortion, as the answer to the philosophical question of when life began was not a tenet of libertarianism.

    Well there you go – exactly. I think we get each other. I posted my reply before I refreshed.

  312. Slartibartfast says:

    i don’t understand how the tyranny of the majority only operates when non-hispanic whites become the minority

    Something having to do with faulty premises leading almost inexorably to faulty conclusions, I think.

  313. Civilis says:

    I am not a bigot but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think social conservatives aren’t apt to do wacky shit.

    While I’m busy nishi can certainly tell you about the intelligent design nonsense they try and sneak into schools.

    She can go on about it, really.

    Everyone is apt to do wacky shit. And Everyone sneaks nonsense into textbooks; much of it liberal. I don’t like Intelligent Design in my science classes, but there’s enough environmental crap in there already that I can’t blame someone else for manipulating the process to sneak something else in. And don’t get me started on the crap in history / civics / English / health classes. The worst example I can remember was from a conservative Mormon government teacher, and it wasn’t political or religious BS but some neo-vegan health food nonsense.

  314. Abe Froman says:

    it wasn’t political or religious BS but some neo-vegan health food nonsense.

    Oh, but that is religious.

  315. Civilis says:

    Entropy,

    I’m Catholic, so as a matter of morality I agree with you on abortion. I just have enough of a compulsive streak that I worry about the separation between my personal beliefs and my personal sense of civic virtue, and I’m enough of a devil’s advocate kind of guy that I argue things just because someone has to. I understand the logic of positions that I do not necessarily agree with, such as the abortion debate. It also helps that I try to make sure I can articulate my opponents arguments; It helps me debate better. I have a tendency to obsessive categorization and see things differently than normal people, so the fact that we see things different ways is completely understandable to me; don’t take any offense. It’s just that I visualize drawing little venn diagrams for conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, etc., and assign things to them and group things my way. Your definition is equally valid.

  316. happyfeet says:

    vegan cupcakes!!! [PDF]

  317. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    lawl Jeff.
    the “construct” civilis is refferrin’ to is a diploid oocyte.
    sowwy, not a citizen with citizen rights.

    this whole debate is dumbdumbdumb anyways.
    in less than 8 years we will be able to buy swell new bene tleilax host wombs from the japanese…..they have been doing fullterm ectogenesis on goat embryos for 15 years now.
    by the time you get to appoint another supreme (if ever) all you good little WECs will be able to harvest horrific genetic anomalies from mothers seeking late-term termination and raise them and adopt them instead of assassinating people like Dr. Tiller.
    You dont give a shit about the unborn, or you seek to prevent women from seeking abortions and punish them when they murder teh unborn.
    all you care about is chattel slavery of women children since you lost your black slaves.
    You know who RELLY opposes immigration reform? Your buddies the bankstahs. Illegal immigrants are the greatest thing for the [sneer] business class since slavery.
    They want illegals here so they can exploit them but they don’t want them to unionize or have civil rights.
    So they whip you trogolodytes into a nativist racist anti-immigrant frenzy.
    And you’re to dumb to see it.

  318. geoffb says:

    Civilis AI comment here I believe.

  319. Civilis says:

    Abe,

    It is religious in the sense that it is reliant on faith and pseudosicence rather than logic and reason, but not religious in the strict 1st amendment government-prohibited test that defines religion in public life. To get back to Jeff’s debate, the intentionalism of the difference between what the founders intended to prohibit government from doing, and what is actually restricted in modern America, is infuriating to my (admittedly twisted) sense of logic.

  320. newrouter says:

    i think there should be school vouchers for: vegan, warmist, catholic, neokkk, ivyleague, schools

  321. Abe Froman says:

    And you’re to dumb to see it.

    Either that or we’re all for the exploitation and you’re too stupid to see how affording them the full benefit of citizenship fucks over your benighted pets.

  322. happyfeet says:

    The business class is neat that’s who makes Lady Gaga’s lip gloss.

  323. Jeff G. says:

    the “construct” civilis is refferrin’ to is a diploid oocyte.
    sowwy, not a citizen with citizen rights.

    And yet at a certain viable point it is a human with natural rights. Hence the difficulty of the question.

    For me. For you, it doesn’t matter. Because I very much doubt you’ll ever be selfless enough to give birth. The rest of what you said is just inflammatory grieferism that isn’t worth dignifying with any kind of response.

  324. Civilis says:

    My google-fu is no match for yours, geoffb, although I did find it…

  325. Mikey NTH says:

    More from the TTPs.

  326. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “affording them the full benefit of citizenship fucks over your benighted pets.”

    Benighted pets? what the fuck is wrong with you?
    Those are all human beings…I’m not so sure about you Abe.
    less than human?
    isnt that *cough cough* Nazi rhetoric?

  327. Abe Froman says:

    Imagine being so stupid that you don’t know when your perspective is being thrown in your face. They’re human beings? Individuals? Who’da thunk it?

  328. Jeff G. says:

    By the way, for those who never came across it, here’s the thread on Intelligent Design from my Xtianist Slave-desiring perspective.

  329. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Not the point Jeff….or maybe it is.
    You lost, and you have been losing for a while.
    Abortion is LEGAL in this country. What Dr. Tiller was doing was LEGAL.
    I suppose you want to tell me that the Founders INTENDED for abortion to be illegal.
    Bullshytt.

  330. Mikey NTH says:

    #326 JeffG.:

    “Because I very much doubt you’ll ever be selfless enough to give birth.”

    That TTP can have all the abortions she wants.

  331. sdferr says:

    “..since you lost your black slaves.”

    Damn, where did they go, my black slaves? I have to wonder.

  332. Mikey NTH says:

    #334 sdferr:

    TTPs just broadcast what ever. Nothing permanent, nothing to remain, nothing to be concerned about.

  333. happyfeet says:

    slaves can be fickle

  334. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    You ARE stupid.
    Your arguments are stupid.
    If a fetus is a human being, then the product of rape or incest is still a human being.
    If a diploid oocyte is a human being then so are the hundreds of thousands of diploid oocytes in terminal cryostasis as the byproduct of fertility therapy.
    YOU ARE SO IMPOSSIBLY STUPID.
    i don’t know how else to describe it.

  335. newrouter says:

    Those are all human beings…I’m not so sure about you Abe.
    less than human?

    fucking proggs hate certain humans. die juice die.

  336. newrouter says:

    If a fetus is a human being, then the product of rape or incest is still a human being.

    yes that’s how evolution works dear.

  337. Bob Reed says:

    Who trusts social conservative Christianity except for social conservative Christians though really?

    You have to keep an eye on some of them or they off and do wacky shit.

    I am not a bigot but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think social conservatives aren’t apt to do wacky shit.

    happyfeet,
    You are getting dangerously close to openly insulting some of the commentariat here, and a large portion of the US population. Don’t you think that some of those folks might see this comment as “hatey”?

    While I’m busy nishi can certainly tell you about the intelligent design nonsense they try and sneak into schools.

    She can go on about it, really.

    Yes, I’m sure she could. But her command of facts and inability to not conflate them with fantasy are in question. And, while I personally don’t adhere to what the proponents of “creation science” put forth as “science facts”, there was a prime mover that put the cosmos into motion, and there are a large number of physicists that would be inclined to agree with that outlook-in short, something lit that big-bang candle…

    Ease up bro, ease up a little.

  338. geoffb says:

    Civilis, from May 15th 2008. This deserves to be quoted for the prescience.

    Given Nishi’s stupidity and transparent dishonesty, I’d go and check the sentences around anything she quotes. I believe she’s evolved to the point where she is incapable of reading English and understanding anything in context.

    Griefer, concern troll, dullity nullity.

  339. sdferr says:

    Some thing Bob? That is going to be one special type of “thing” is what I’m thinking.

  340. Civilis says:

    It’s fun watching Nishi rip her own arguments apart. She accuses us of pining for slavery, and at the same time she takes the position that slavery is acceptable unless specifically prohibited. We’re the ones that want to enslave people, yet we’re the ones arguing that rights are natural. When the first homo superior walks out of the lab, will we say “The uplift is not a citizen. The uplift is patented property until there is there is a constitutional amendment giving uplifts citizen’s rights”?

  341. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Oh yeah Jeff…didn’t we decide that IDT crapology doesn’t belong in a science class?
    I think we decided it belongs in philosophy or world religions.

    that is how i membah it.
    :)

  342. JD says:

    Nishit the lying genocidal cunt is stuck in one of its feedback loops again, where it is just cycling through its various memes. Fuck you, you disgusting vile lying twat. Swordfish style.

  343. Entropy says:

    I don’t like Intelligent Design in my science classes, but there’s enough environmental crap in there already that I can’t blame someone else for manipulating the process to sneak something else in.

    Well… evolution!

    As someone who firmly believes in evolution, the evolution that is taught in school textbooks is such nonsense and fraud, and the method employed is so anti-scientific and dogmatic, that I agree with a few evolutionary biologists I’ve read who call for them to just quit teaching evolution before college altogether because apparently the real theory is too complex for the kiddies anyway and it’s kind of pointless for those working the McD’s cash register.

    Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny? Fossile records? It’s an army of pilt-down men.

    As for ID… meh. It’s not a great theory. It seems to be (and is accused of being) an argument of ignorance. Nothing but a summation of challenges against evolution with no real solid evidence in favor of their proposed alternative, all wrapped up in a nasty recursive problem.

    And… as such… I’m not sure it deserves the word ‘theory’ or even a name, but sure it can be taught in schools alongside evolution. If ID is nothing more then ‘issues with evolution’, that’s part of the theory of evolution. We want to teach kids ‘these are the questions we still haven’t answered’ so they’ll go find answers. If you tell them not to question it, how the hell shall they find answers? Skepticism is critical to science.

    “Don’t question the science!” just teaches them to be religious humanists prone to Authority fallacies. Which… appears to be the whole point in teaching a Bowdlerized wrongheaded oversimplication of a good but imperfect theory about the billion year old genesis of life in 5th grade.

    I’m pretty sure we don’t teach Big Bang in the 5th grade. If we did, it’d probably be a stupid over-certain oversimplification just meant to repress god-bothering tendencies.

    We certainly don’t try to teach them Everett’s Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Physics or Membrane Theory. We haven’t any time, apparently, between Black History Month, fingerpaint and Evolution, to teach them formal logic or how to read over an 8th grade level.

  344. happyfeet says:

    I kind of stand by that, Mr. Reed.

    And what I will say is that Evangelicals don’t always really really really remember in their heads I don’t think that they’re representing a religion that’s bigger than their particular sect. They are often not terribly mindful I don’t think to take care that they not act in a way such that the broader religion comes to enjoy a lesser esteem in the eyes of non-believers.

    They can be quite arrogant actually.

  345. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    civilus, that wasn’t your argument as I recall……I think it was….we shouldn’t do that because the Big Sky-father doesnt want us to.
    Here’s a book where my communities are already discussing those problems.
    Citizen Cyborg.
    try to keep up.
    :)

  346. JD says:

    nishit – You should have quit lying after “I think … ” because it is patently obvious that you are not doing so.

  347. newrouter says:

    didn’t we decide that IDT crapology doesn’t belong in a science class?

    neither does darwin’s theory. two bullshit theories don’t need time in the classroom.

  348. JD says:

    Did nishit ever explain why she assumed that the muggers in the story were minorities? What minority did you think they were, nishit?

  349. newrouter says:

    the “evolution” is just progg talking points

  350. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Actually, Mr Reed…..in colorado students are taught introductory quantum mechanics as a part of physic curriculum.
    Highschool physics teachers are required to have 3 credits of QM.

  351. Bob Reed says:

    sdferr,

    I was trying to employ as general a terminology as I could. Some refer to “it” simply as the prime mover, for me it is God almighty. The facts are we can determine the “history” of the cosmos with a pretty high degree of certainty, scientifically and mathematically, from milliseconds after the big-bang ’til today; what no one can say with certainty is what, or who, the “first cause” was. And while some have a circadian viow of a re-occurring contraction and expansion, that is not a prevailing view.

    Before I ramble too much, and to put it simply, I would have said “God”, but I didn’t want to impose that upon the non-God-bothery folks.

    ‘Cuz we all knw the wacky shot those stianist God-bothery folks can do…

  352. Carin says:

    You dont give a shit about the unborn, or you seek to prevent women from seeking abortions and punish them when they murder teh unborn.
    all you care about is chattel slavery of women children since you lost your black slaves.

    Just wow. Sorry if this has already been commented on but just. wow.

  353. newrouter says:

    that sect. 8 house i just cleaned out could use a 19 yr old who had “home economics” class. idiots these proggs. fuck us while proggs sip lattee

  354. happyfeet says:

    natural selection has an intellectual elegance unto itself and an honored place in the history of the development of our culture what should be taught I think, and I also think it’s kind of scary to find yourself writing this sentence

  355. Carin says:

    And that taken in context with nishi calling someone just so stupid.

    It’s really almost … art. Performance art.

  356. sdferr says:

    I can’t understand foregoing the opportunity to say God when God is what you mean. My point, on the other hand, was merely that thingy things I’m accustomed to aren’t at all like the God I hear tell about, so far as the tale is told.

  357. Abe Froman says:

    the “evolution” is just progg talking points

    Don’t be afraid to express complete thoughts. Nobody wants to think you’re an idiot.

  358. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    see? the stupid it burns.
    newrouter says ToE is a bullshytt theory.
    Reed says it is “an argument of ignorance”.
    Like I said if you don’t want to be called stupid, don’t act stupid.

  359. newrouter says:

    Highschool physics teachers are required to have 3 credits of QM.

    proggs and credentialism. fuck you and the paper you have loser.

  360. Mike LaRoche says:

    we shouldn’t do that because the Big Sky-father doesnt want us to

    Nishi’s atheism reveals itself.

  361. happyfeet says:

    That was Entropy about “an argument of ignorance” not Mr. Reed

  362. newrouter says:

    newrouter says ToE is a bullshytt theory.

    f=ma i can reproduce. can you reproduce the origins of time?

  363. Carin says:

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen you accurately summarize someone’s opinion/position on anything. You mischaracterize. It’s your thing.

    It’s either intentional or there is some other explanation … what could that be?

  364. JD says:

    Nishit – Why did you think the muggers were minorities?

  365. newrouter says:

    newrouter says ToE is a bullshytt theory

    actually i said darwin and id are bullshit theories.

  366. Carin says:

    JD, I thought they were union peps. ’cause I’m a hater.

  367. JHo says:

    Citizen Cyborg concludes with a concrete political agenda to make sure these technologies make life better for everyone, including expanding and deepening human rights, reforming genetic patent law, and providing universal health care and a guaranteed minimum income.

    Good luck with that nice big internal contradiction.

  368. Carin says:

    Ok. Lost is on.

  369. Entropy says:

    This is somewhat funny.

    I’m pretty sure she can’t even keep her comments straight and has me confused with Reed.

    Not that matters because she first avoids my point to argue anecdote, and then later fuckin 180’s it. Total 180 man.

    If you’re going to talk to it, I suggest you take your words, print them, cut em out, toss em in a hat, pull them back out 1 by 1 and retype them it whatever order they come out of the hat.

    No meaning will be lost, since none made it through her translation into some some leetspeak text pidgin to begin with, but you’ll at least make her work for it.

    Maybe run it through google translator from English to Japanese to French and back to English again.

  370. Abe Froman says:

    I assumed union peeps too. Though the anarchists with the “Republicans geaux homeo sign were a strong contender as well.

  371. Entropy says:

    LOST!

    Thank god you said that I forgot!

  372. Mike LaRoche says:

    a guaranteed minimum income.

    Nishi, that is so 1930s. Huey Long called, he wants his failmeme back. Cultural evolution has left you behind.

    lulz ;)

  373. JD says:

    see? the stupid it burns.

    You lie, attribute quotes to people that did not make them, make up positions for others, slander people, and otherwise act in the most vile manner possible. Just searching and begging for approval from daddy. Take your meds, twat.

  374. JD says:

    Carin – That was prolly a good assumption. Nishit, on the other hand, assumed that it was a group of minorities, and she thinks we have a race problem.

  375. SteveG says:

    So Jeff, when attacked by five do you concentrate on disabling them one at a time with the nearest attacker being dealt with on a first come first served basis? Or do you hold until you get a shot at their leader?

    Defending against five organized and experienced pack fighters seems to be about survive and do as much damage until they get tired of it or help comes… and help better come… but five attackers of mixed abilities can actually be easier to deal with than two good ones. Because the unorganized dumbasses get in each others way… hopefully there are also copious amounts of alcohol involved.

    This guy got seriously beaten (broken face, jaw and knocked out) I wonder if they stomped him.
    Getting stomped, that’s always a good time. I’ve never gone unconscious in a fight, and I’ve been stomped pretty good until I fought up and out of it, but I’ve seen guys go out AND then get stomped big time while totally defenseless.
    Anyway he needs more than the DVD set after he gets well

  376. Entropy says:

    PS (during LOST commercial break):

    Besides the fact that, when I called ID an argument of ignorance, and it asserted I called evolution an argument of ignorance, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t actually know what an ‘argument from ignorance’ is.

    It probably thinks I just mean the argument is ignorant.

  377. newrouter says:

    jeff,

    charge these loons for psycho services. the proggs are unstable.

  378. sdferr says:

    I kinda like that with unmoved-mover we get ???? ?????, by the way, Bob. It’s way cool. Cold almost, even.

  379. JD says:

    Justified starts in 40 minutes. And nishit is still a cowardly lying twat, who is a bigoted racist what thinks muggers are minorities.

  380. Jeff G. says:

    Entropy said ID was a theory from ignorance.

    Nishi can’t even get that straight.

    Not the point Jeff….or maybe it is.
    You lost, and you have been losing for a while.
    Abortion is LEGAL in this country. What Dr. Tiller was doing was LEGAL.

    And?

    The question of whether it is a natural right or a right that should be decided on within the social contract is what the debate is over — and the reason for the debate, from my perspective, at least, is that we need to balance competing interests: the body of the woman and her freedom over it and the life of the viable child.

    Which is why my position is abortion with restrictions.

    It’s disgusting to think of abortion as having “winners” and “losers,” incidentally. But I think it bears pointing out that lots of things were once legal that no longer are — which is why the questions that surround the abortion issue are so interesting and hotly contested.

  381. newrouter says:

    evolution is fraud

  382. Carin says:

    JD, oh I know. I think I commented up on that way up there at 31.

  383. Jeff G. says:

    Oh yeah Jeff…didn’t we decide that IDT crapology doesn’t belong in a science class?
    I think we decided it belongs in philosophy or world religions.

    that is how i membah it.
    :)

    “We” didn’t decide anything. In fact, my original position, as evidenced in the linked thread, was just that.

    That it took you several iterations of pretending I ever said otherwise before you accepted what was plainly written is not my concern.

  384. newrouter says:

    evolution is fraud because something put a thumb on the scales. why evolute?

  385. happyfeet says:

    evolution made bunnies and cucumbers and pikachus and puppy dogs and muskrats and corn which the Indians called maize.

  386. newrouter says:

    the evolution fraud works with the agw fraud. grifters rising politically.

  387. newrouter says:

    evolution made bunnies and cucumbers

    evolution made proggs. the rest is the creator.

  388. Jeff G. says:

    So Jeff, when attacked by five do you concentrate on disabling them one at a time with the nearest attacker being dealt with on a first come first served basis? Or do you hold until you get a shot at their leader?

    Your best bet is to run.

    If you have no chance, you’ll want to control one and use him as a shield as best you can while working to disable him (either with a choke or knees, etc.) Then you try that again with the next go until it’s down to 2 or 1. Best you can hope for.

    Defending against five organized and experienced pack fighters seems to be about survive and do as much damage until they get tired of it or help comes… and help better come… but five attackers of mixed abilities can actually be easier to deal with than two good ones. Because the unorganized dumbasses get in each others way… hopefully there are also copious amounts of alcohol involved.

    Yeah. You hope it gets broken up — most of these things don’t last longer than a minute — and if you’re good, you can usually take out a few in the process. Were it me, there’d by no grappling. I’d try to land the first punch on the button to one guy, then grab the second guy coming at me, either plum him or headlock him, and use him as a shield as I’m working to sink a choke.

    Repeat as necessary.

  389. sdferr says:

    Matusz throws shutout ball through the sixth, gets a four-spot pinned on him in the seventh, three of ’em with two outs, after leaving the mound with one out and three on by way of singles — all his responsibility — and pfff….. just another tick on the way to a hundred loss season. Kid’s good though.

  390. SteveG says:

    It’d be great if natural selection explained as much as they say it does.

    On the micro level:
    Obviously nishi is the end product of generations of relatives defeating natural selection and then imposing the end result of their daft selection process upon us… and calling their design more intelligent because it is “progressive”.
    Think puppy mills…
    Daft hippies eventually select out… just not soon enough I guess….

  391. serr8d says:

    Alvin York, WWI hero, had a different methodology

    Making head shots at a distance of 300 yards, York worked his way along a line of machine-gun pits, careful not to waste any ammunition. When German foot soldiers tried to attack him he calmly used a Colt .45 automatic to shoot all ten of them, starting with the man at the rear …

    Necessitating a magazine change, as the venerable .45 holds 8 rounds fully charged.

  392. SteveG says:

    Jeff

    The guy was with a girl who broke a leg.
    If it was you or me, we’d have to stand and defend… the running option seems to have gone to shit

  393. JD says:

    nishit is the result of incestuous ‘tards and a bottle of Jack Daniels.

  394. LTC John says:

    I’d just empty the magazine in my M-4, then switch to the M-9…what? Oh…

  395. Entropy says:

    Well, the only thing I can offer when fighting a group is you stay moving. Spread them out.

    Even with a girl you run. Not away, but at least around. If a few peel off to do nefarious things to her you can hopefully run back and cock em in the back of the head, or try to deal with the ones left quickly.

    You don’t want 5 guys ON you though. You got to keep moving.

    That, or you tell her to run and then the aim is to just hold for a minute before dying awesomely.

    But you better hope the ditz runs.

  396. newrouter says:

    If it was you or me, we’d have to stand and defend

    sorry people get beat up by thugs in his world when they’re with their GIRLfriends

  397. newrouter says:

    obama has girlfriends

  398. Bob Reed says:

    Reed says it is ‘an argument of ignorance’.

    Yeah, there you go fantasizing again nishi. Maybe you can link to where I said this?

  399. JD says:

    Argument from ignorance is a concept that nishit is intimately acquainted with.

  400. Civilis says:

    civilus, that wasn’t your argument as I recall……I think it was….we shouldn’t do that because the Big Sky-father doesnt want us to.

    Ooooh, can I call bullshit (note spelling) on this rather blatant falsehood against my reputation? Nishi, who didn’t remember our conversation from two years ago, is now claiming she remembers my response! When I argued her, I stated a hypothetical, that there was no right answer. While I note that there will certainly be ethical questions raised by human enhancement, I cannot say whether a specific experiment would be ethical without knowing a lot of details about the specific experiment in question. I’m picky that way.

  401. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    civilus, bullshytt is from Anathem…..a book where the ‘slines and the cudlips (conservatives and WECs) regularily pogram intellectuals and scientists.

  402. Dread Cthulhu says:

    Victory in five on one requires luck, skill and some sort of mechanical advantage, i.e. a weapon.

  403. Bob Reed says:

    sdferr,

    I appreciate the understanding bro, but I try to mix religion and politics talk as little as possible; out of respect for divergent beliefs. I get plenty of time to speak of God in my life, and theologically, in the ministries I serve in at my local church.

    While I admire the various multi-dimensional, superstring, and brane cosmologies, for me the good Lord created the cosmos and put into motion; what our human mind understands to be the big bang. I also believe that He created man as well, but most likely chose the evolutionary process as His vehicle. Who’s to say exactly? As a Catholic, I enjoy millenia of scholarship that frees me from a fundamentalist’s literal interpretation of the oldest parts of the bible, but understand them to be allegorical.

    But I firmly believe that mathematics and science are the tools we humans use to wrap our minds around the wonder of the cosmos. “cuz, like, if God created the cosmos, he probably didn’t need to solve partial differential equations to do so :)

    But all that is a topic for another thread.

    Thank you all for the indulgence (INDULGENCES? PAPIST!)

  404. Entropy says:

    I (Entropy) say:

    As for ID… meh. It’s not a great theory. It seems to be (and is accused of being) an argument of ignorance. Nothing but a summation of challenges against evolution with no real solid evidence in favor of their proposed alternative, all wrapped up in a nasty recursive problem.

    Nishi responds:

    Reed says [evolution] is “an argument of ignorance”.

    That’s all there is too it folks. I don’t know why you argue with it, other then sheer mocking entertainment. You’ll seriously have more luck with a wall.

    You. Cannot. Assume. Good. Faith.

    You are fricken garaunteed bad faith with this one.

  405. Bob Reed says:

    Thanks for the support at #364. Man, I’m way behind in this thread…

    TIME DILATION!

  406. sdferr says:

    I’ve no particular problem mixing Bob, so long as we differentiate where necessary, which isn’t hard to do, really. For that matter, I can’t imagine a muslim say, who wouldn’t properly mix his god with his politics intentionally, as, what else could he do should his religion insist? This, on the other hand, isn’t our condition, I think. And of course, hence the paring off. But the topics each have their virtues, not to be avoided.

  407. Mike LaRoche says:

    regularily pogram intellectuals and scientists.

    The ones who do that in real life are the Islamc fundamentalists.

  408. ThomasD says:

    It is less bad faith than raw affectation. Bad faith would necessitate some core belief of ultimate goal (e.g. getting a leg up) in this case it is pure pose.

  409. ThomasD says:

    belief or ultimate goal…

    Fat fingers today.

  410. Dread Cthulhu says:

    Nishi,

    you really don’t have a clue where history is concerned.

    Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao — all those “conservatives” who pogrammed intellectuals and scientists….

    Whatever you’re smoking or shooting, please tell us what it is, so we can avoid it.

  411. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    /shrug

    I’m a sufi.
    we don’t proselytize, and neither do Jews.
    Yours is better for you, mine is better for me.
    I don’t want you in my religion….neither do the Jews.
    :)

  412. Bob Reed says:

    sdferr,
    Your knowledge of ancient greek always impresses me :)

    I am so behind in this thread…

  413. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao — all those “conservatives” who pogrammed intellectuals and scientists….

    totalitarian reactionaries.
    you have much in common.
    :)

  414. Mike LaRoche says:

    totalitarian reactionaries

    Wrong. Communism is the ultimate form of progressive “cultural evolution”.
    Y’all have much in common.
    ;)

  415. JD says:

    Isn’t this the same thread where nishit the lying racist who advocates for genocide assume that the muggers were minorities? Care to explain that, you cying lunt?

  416. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “Your knowledge of ancient greek always impresses me”

    strange that he has no metis.
    You are Kylonists, followers of Kylon of Croton (not BSG)….the original populists.
    Kylon got refused entry to Pythagoras’ School for Elites so he raised a mob of local farmers to chop up the teachers with scythes and burn down the school.
    Kylon’s spiritual heir, your goddess.

  417. Bob Reed says:

    What in the world are “cudlips” and “‘slines”?

  418. Dread Cthulhu says:

    Actually, Nishi, they were all off-shoots of Marxism, with a healthy dose of Sartre thrown in in the case of Pol Pot.

    “Reactionaries” do not groove to that whole “forced collectivization” beat, child.

  419. Mike LaRoche says:

    Ironic, as the socialism nishi pushes would turn America into Corcyra.

  420. sdferr says:

    The bigger the bonfire the more frenetic the dance Mike.

  421. Mike LaRoche says:

    Yep, that’s our nishi, sdferr.

  422. Dread Cthulhu says:

    Nishi is a cloaca — lots of material, but its all shit.

  423. ThomasD says:

    You know I really admire a ball of yarn. The way it’s presence can just, you know, pwn the attention of a cat.

    At least until the novelty wears off.

    But then, almost miraculously, the ball returns with a bit of catnip secreted inside.

    Stunning.

  424. Entropy says:

    “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free,” said Jefferson, “it expects what never was and never will be. . . . The people cannot be safe without information. Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe.” Across the Atlantic another passionate be­liever in reason was thinking about the same time, in almost precisely similar terms. Here is what John Stuart Mill wrote of his father, the utilitarian philoso­pher, James Mill: “So complete was his reliance upon the influence of reason over the minds of mankind, whenever it is allowed to reach them, that he felt as if all would be gained, if the whole population were able to read, and if all sorts of opinions were allowed to be addressed to them by word or in writing, and if by the suffrage they could nominate a legislature to give effect to the opinions they had adopted.” All is safe, all would be gained!

    In regard to propaganda the early advocates of uni­versal literacy and a free press envisaged only two possibilities: the propaganda might be true, or it might be false. They did not foresee what in fact has happened, above all in our Western capitalist democra­cies — the development of a vast mass communications industry, concerned in the main neither with the true nor the false, but with the unreal, the more or less totally irrelevant. In a word, they failed to take into account man’s almost infinite appetite for distractions.

    A Brave New World Revisted (1958) – Aldous Huxley

  425. Slartibartfast says:

    can you reproduce the origins of time?

    FWIW, TOE has got nothing to do with cosmology. TOE picks up at least a hundred million years after the Earth solidifies. Which in turn is billions of years after the Big Bang.

    If you don’t subscribe to Big Bang, you’re welcome to come up with anything else that fits the observations. That is, after all, science. Young Earth doesn’t compute, unless God made the rest of the Universe exactly as if it had sprung into existence billions of years ago.

    Ennyway: cosmology and evolution are totally separate conversations. You can have the universe start however you please, so long as it winds up with Earth being a viable environment for life to emerge.

  426. SteveG says:

    5 on 2.
    Girl breaks a leg
    Guy gets beat like a pinata
    Girl seems to have emerged without unwanted exchange of dubious quality natural selection dna
    Guy did OK. Evidently the attackers were so distracted by kicking his ass that they didn’t assault his girlfriend. Still needs seminar from Jeff…

  427. geoffb says:

    Kylon the ? Not the Balloon Juice misspelled rant again. Sheesh

  428. dicentra says:

    The worst example I can remember was from a conservative Mormon government teacher, and it wasn’t political or religious BS but some neo-vegan health food nonsense.

    We call that “reaching beyond the mark,” because for some people, the injunction against coffee/tea/alcohol/tobacco just isn’t painful enough, so to be extra righteous, you have to go God one (or more) better and avoid bleached wheat and processed sugar and pasteurized milk and only eat meat in winter and fruit only when in season. Whenever banana season is.

  429. malaclypse the tertiary says:

    I think Nishi clearly has brain. There are many of her general philosophical bent that have brain. I think her incitements merit response, and clearly many here agree.

    What is so very sickening and angering is her supercilious, egomaniacal rhetoric. It is sickening because while she could be elevating—and in some cases engendering—debate, as it stands, she generally uses the opportunity to drop trow and show us her backside. Which, if that’s her gambit, I’d ask she dispense with the allegory and just post literal pictures of her exposed backside.

    Happyfeet, sir, I appreciate your principled attempt to publically recognize Nishi’s humanity. I share your desires. I would also rejoin that rhetorical cover for her ugliness does not redound to the hope that others will share your appreciation for her humanity. What’s more, I would argue that it enables said ugliness, y’know? Her virtual countenance is not merely “controversial,” it is ugly, spiteful, and self-aggrandizing. These are not principles to which you aspire, yes? No harm in noting them.

    Nishi, learn humility. It is one of the three pillars of your putative faith. You eschew thoughtful, positive argumentation in favor of overweening insult (and to Jeff no less, for whom you feign a respect that you’ve never demonstrated.) When you do occasionally attempt to mount an argument, it is through abstruse pop-culture references, the intent of which is clearly aimed less at supporting a thesis than demonstrating your cliquish superiority to the assembled simpleton cudlips.

    Do you know, Nishi, that my IQ is three standard deviations above average and yet, incomprehensibly, there is vanishingly little with which I find disagreement with Jeff? Do you know, Nishi, that I likely know more about cognitive science than you? Do you know, Nishi, that Strong AI is likely not possible given bivalent FOL? Have you read Douglas Hofstadter, Nishi? How about Ken Wilber? Can you demonstrate, Nishi, the existence of an epistemic/ontological model that is both complete and transcends the enlightenment paradigm? Astonishing that a rube could even formulate such questions, no?

    I have no doubt you could be a very interesting interlocutor with respect to these subjects. It is with some dismay that I note you seem to prefer churlishness. While I don’t revile you as do some here, I have little difficulty understanding their revulsion.

  430. sdferr says:

    On the downlow, being tropicalish, there doesn’t seem to be one in the winterspringsummerfall sense of the thing dicentra. It’s more like, when has this particular plant had 25 to 35 or so leafstalks put out, it pops a flowering pod and away she goes. So any ole time will work, given those conditions.

  431. dicentra says:

    it’s a diploid oocyte

    And you’re a multicellular endothermal biped.

    Using scientific nomenclature doesn’t change the fact that the diploid oocyte is (a) alive (b) human (c) genetically different from the mother such that it must be protected chemically from the mother’s immune system.

    Strangely enough, Nishi, you are still (a) alive (b) human (c) alien to your mother’s immune system, and using the same genetic pattern you got at conception.

    An environmentalist is a man who has a cabin in the woods; a developer is a man who wants to build one too.

    Slamming the door on peeps after you’ve crossed the threshold is pretty selfish, sweetie.

  432. Pablo says:

    What is so very sickening and angering is her supercilious, egomaniacal rhetoric. It is sickening because while she could be elevating—and in some cases engendering—debate, as it stands, she generally uses the opportunity to drop trow and show us her backside.

    I once thought that too, mal. That was several years ago. She hasn’t changed her act in quite some time. What could have been, ain’t.

  433. bh says:

    Hey, the griefering just created something interesting. Huzzah!

  434. dicentra says:

    As for ID… meh. It’s not a great theory.

    It’s not even good theology. It posits the God of the Gaps, whose realm shrinks ever as we discover more and more stuff.

    Some of their critiques of evolution might be valid; others not so much. But you’re right, Entropy, they don’t propose a viable alternative either from a scientific or a religious standpoint.

  435. JD says:

    Mal – I will be in St Louis Thursday night, if you would be interested in grabbing a bite.

  436. dicentra says:

    They are often not terribly mindful I don’t think to take care that they not act in a way such that the broader religion comes to enjoy a lesser esteem in the eyes of non-believers. They can be quite arrogant actually.

    Sounds like you know some people what fill that bill. Guess what? So do I! A few of them are relatives; others neighbors.

    And you know why they’re like that? Because humanity sucks. And because of the parable of the wheat and the tares.

    Also, sometimes adherents bring down esteem in the eyes of non-believers by being awful people, and sometimes adherents bring down non-believer wrath by being good people. Really good people. People what are great exemplars of their faith.

  437. dicentra says:

    Victory in five on one requires luck, skill and some sort of mechanical advantage, i.e. a weapon.

    Actually, you need a few bottles of this.

  438. bh says:

    Perhaps I’ll grow repetitive with this but I’ll mention again that more Mal is good Mal.

  439. geoffb says:

    Repeat as needed I say, It’s not repetitious.

  440. geoffb says:

    Commas, periods, what’s the dif. $50,000 means nada to me I guess.

  441. JD says:

    Mal once wrote something that made me think Twitter was not a haven of douchenozzlery. That is no small task.

  442. bh says:

    Heh, that’s funny, JD. I remember that thread and I had the very same prejudice.

  443. geoffb says:

    dicentra,

    #434 is a thing of beauty. Bravo.

  444. McGehee says:

    ID is “not a great theory?” That’s kind of like saying the planet Neptune is not a great baritone singer.

  445. dicentra says:

    more Mal is good Mal.

    Captain Mal? You betcha!

    sdferr: I was being horribly sarcastic about the banana thing, and there’s no way you could have understood my referent.

    Our dietary code states:

    And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

    (This was 1833: many, many years before refrigeration.) Every few LDS congregations has one kook who tries to go everyone better by insisting that you shouldn’t eat fruit unless it’s in season. (Avoiding meat except in winter is less popular but it comes up sometimes.)

    The proper retort is “so when is banana season?” on account of bananas not having one.

    People like that are fun to tell stories about, just don’t let them be in charge of anything.

  446. JD says:

    I still think Twitter is a haven of douchenozzlery, and could very well be one of the signs of the apocalypse, but Mal softened the edges for me.

  447. sdferr says:

    Ahso, as Charlie Chan would ahso.

  448. dicentra says:

    Commas, periods, what’s the dif. $50,000 means nada to me I guess.

    Oh hey, is that a ref to that one comment of mine in that one thread?

    That’s my favorite explanation of intentionalism and how it gets abused, IMAO. On account of it being one I thought up, and also I have a Colombian 50-peso bill that back in the day could buy you a couple of pan quesos and a couple of sodas and maybe some penny candy but now isn’t worth jack.

  449. Entropy says:

    Oh, cut me some slack McGehee, I went on to state that I didn’t even think it warranted having a specific name, let alone the word ‘theory’.

    But I do think, to the extent some of it’s ‘from ignorance’ critiques are valid, the critiques are valid. It’s not all Kirk Cameron and bananas. Not every single thing about evolution has been answered to my satisfaction. Which just means there’s work yet to be done and things yet to discover.

  450. bh says:

    I loves me some di, too.

    Even though all her Spanish talk is just a bunch of swearing and references to bad 70’s TV shows.

    “pan quesos”? We’re in mixed company here!

  451. McGehee says:

    Oh, cut me some slack McGehee

    Was it you that said that originally? I pulled it out of somebody else’s response, thinking it was from someone else whose original comments I don’t have to look at.

    I would say “critique” is probably the best name for what ID originally represented, before it became an alternate label for creation “science.” Back then the idea was to show that evolutionary theory isn’t a challenge to creationism, so naturally the more militant creationists turned ID into a challenge to evolution. Idiots.

    These days it’s rare to encounter someone who remembers it from that far back. Most people’s first encounter with ID was from conventional-media reports on the repackaged “challenge” as if the original critique never existed.

  452. JHo says:

    Have you read Douglas Hofstadter, Nishi? How about Ken Wilber? Can you demonstrate, Nishi, the existence of an epistemic/ontological model that is both complete and transcends the enlightenment paradigm?

    Perhaps beside your point, but isn’t it interesting that merely denying the antiquated soul has the same net effect as denying the — what was it — diploid oocyte? Even the mind is, at some base level, an exercise in semantics that if dragged through the gutter enough, dehumanizes it, calling that state enlightenment. The nihilistic, solipsistic “progress” in progressive.

    Together with the equally antiquated notion of liberty in the flourishing hive of State, mind and soul are choices, and it seems that choice is the thing. Probably including the choice to drool about consciousness bottled in silicon memory and rocketed off to orbit Alpha Centauri for a few eons.

  453. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    malaclypse I belong to a blog where ALL the contributers DO is discuss Hofstadters single-shot platonia dilemma.
    so yeah….. I have read everything hes written.
    i came here to refute Jeff’s claim in email to me that I was the partial cause of his “banning by his old university” and some sort of shunning by the academic community.
    That is simply not true.
    His professor requested that his name be removed from this site because of Darleen’s cartoon about the rape of liberty.
    I pointed out some examples of Julian Sanchez’s closed information loop occurring here that the rest of Known Blogspace is discussing.
    In return i have been threatened with physical violence and heard a lot of profanity directed at me.
    idc.
    to me that is simple validation of Sanchez’s ressentiment loop theory and what Noah Millman’s commenters described as the rejection of empiricism…. and also what i suspect is a uniformly lower IQ and education aggregation for “conservatives”.
    I have long held the theory that education and intelligence are partial aggregate variables for political affiliation, like race and sex.
    This is just data.
    Im sorry that you find me churlish.
    I’d love to talk to the possiblity of Strong AI with you.
    But that is likely not possible when people are suggesting i get fucked with an ice dong and calling me names.
    I did what I came here for.
    Jeff still writes beautifully, but his empiricism is Utter Fail.

  454. Carin says:

    simple validation of Sanchez’s ressentiment loop theory and what Noah Millman’s commenters described as the rejection of empiricism…. and also what i suspect is a uniformly lower IQ and education aggregation for “conservatives”.

    I bet if you took an IQ/education aggregation for the commenters HERE (those whom you are disparaging) – you wouldn’t find the empirical evidence you are looking for.

  455. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    also Mal, I was actually hoping Jeff might join the conversation.
    But I guess OUTLAW would prevent any sort of participation in the discussion.

  456. JHo says:

    Discussion? lawls, griefer.

  457. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Mal speaks truth.

    Sounds like you know some people what fill that bill. Guess what? So do I! A few of them are relatives; others neighbors.

    And you know why they’re like that? Because humanity sucks.

    Precisely. Which is why C.S. Lewis focuses us not on the suckitude, but on the question of whether the suckitude would be worse if they believed in nothing.

  458. Andrew the Noisy says:

    But that is likely not possible when people are suggesting i get fucked with an ice dong and calling me names.

    Probably not. Suggest you stop calling people names and see what happens.

    My hypocrite-sympathy machine is not working today.

  459. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    hmm……link not working?
    Weaselling

  460. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    /shrug
    I have called a lot people here stupid….they are.
    I called Darleen a pedobear hag…..she is.
    She supported the YFZ patriarchy daddies raping 13 year old children.

  461. serr8d says:

    Nishi, you neoteny-defined bitch, you’ve one very thin area in which you are NOT stupid. Problem is, you insist on posting outside of it.

  462. Andrew the Noisy says:

    I have called a lot people here stupid….they are.
    I called Darleen a pedobear hag…..she is.
    She supported the YFZ patriarchy daddies raping 13 year old children.

    And I have called you a dumb honky that can’t read.

    You are.

    So, do you want a way out of this mousetrap, or are you content in your obvious superiority?

  463. and also what i suspect is a uniformly lower IQ and education aggregation for “conservatives”.

    You’re a “smart” gal, right? You don’t see the funny in this statement?

    This is a consistent theme with most “educated” liberal “thinkers”. It makes me laugh whenever I hear it, and I hear it a lot. Please tell me why you think this? Please? Especially the “uniformly” part.

  464. Jeff G. says:

    I pointed out some examples of Julian Sanchez’s closed information loop occurring here that the rest of Known Blogspace is discussing.
    In return i have been threatened with physical violence and heard a lot of profanity directed at me.

    You pointed out NO such examples.

    to me that is simple validation of Sanchez’s ressentiment loop theory and what Noah Millman’s commenters described as the rejection of empiricism….

    And yet when the description doesn’t match what is actually transpiring, you simply assert that it is and keep going. Very scientific, that.

    and also what i suspect is a uniformly lower IQ and education aggregation for “conservatives”.

    What you “suspect”? Well. How empirical!

    I have long held the theory that education and intelligence are partial aggregate variables for political affiliation, like race and sex.

    Make sure you properly separate education and intelligence.

    Beyond that, everything is a “partial aggregate variable” for everything else. The question is, are there causal connections.

    Me, I’ve long held the theory that how someone thinks about language is the best indicator of where their political affiliations will ultimately settle. I make the case by showing how that works, not — like you — through baseless assertions using buzzwords.

    Julian Sanchez’ thesis is as silly now as it was when he first started using it to pretend to study the “conservative” mind. And it doesn’t apply at ALL to this site, where we invite discussion — and recoil only from personal attacks.

    I pity you, because you are one of those people who aren’t nearly as smart as you think you are — but you allow the few people who blow smoke up your ass or play to your confirmation biases to convince you otherwise.

    Hell, you can’t even understand what’s written to you in a simple email.

    If you wish to go after my intelligence, at least bring an argument that challenges it. And pass that along to Sanchez, who has already been slapped down a couple of times.

    His little “discussion” — essentially, “Why Are Conservatives So Stupid? Discuss” — is a giant question begging exercise, one that doesn’t even bother to properly define terms.

    I’m tired of having your bullshit heaped on my head. If you don’t like the discussions here — if you don’t like our “closed information loop” (and prefer, instead, the wide-open epistemic exploration that comes with typing the same comments over and over again, without ever allowing for adjustments that you should be making based on responses) — fuck off the site, then.

  465. JHo says:

    /shrug

    So shall you receive. I’m guessing. griefer.

    Aside from the rank dishonesty, hypocrisy, bigotry, and endless impacted narcissistic adolescent incivility, nuggie, is that like the truck that picks up my garbage every Friday, you take on a ton of random shit in order to relocate a lot of foul-smelling refuse at the end of your route. I.e., JG’s house.

    Unlike waste services, you don’t even feed the crows. And aside from the stink, it doesn’t offend everyone everywhere it goes.

    So evangelize on, soljah.

  466. Entropy says:

    These days it’s rare to encounter someone who remembers it from that far back. Most people’s first encounter with ID was from conventional-media reports on the repackaged “challenge” as if the original critique never existed.

    Well, I don’t remember it from that far back. I ignored it for a long time because I simply had no interest.

    When I finally got around to evaluating what all the fuss was about, I guess it’s fair to say I gravitated toward the skeptical biologists rather than, er, Kirk Cameron doing the whole “Bananas: How do they work? AMAZING!” spiel. I certainly don’t look to the media to inform me about anything.

  467. Slartibartfast says:

    malaclypse I belong to a blog where ALL the contributers DO is discuss Hofstadters single-shot platonia dilemma.

    I think someone needs to go looking for a job. Maybe lots of someones. Somewhere there’s a McDonald’s in need of a grill cook.

  468. JHo says:

    Maybe this is what happens when one deconstructs mind to where it’s nothing more than a traffic camera hooked up to a self-programming DVR.

  469. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Somewhere there’s a McDonald’s in need of a grill cook.

    In my experience, they don’t let girls work the grill. She’d be put up on the cashier where’d she’d annoy the customers by converting their orders into 1337-speak and then calling them stupid.

    So she’s pretty much hosed on that front, unless she can empty the grease-buckets.

  470. Bob Reed says:

    In return i have been threatened with physical violence…”

    Cite please Nishi. I think you’re factually challenged here again…

  471. there’s a McDonald’s in need of a grill cook.

    You have to work your way up to grill. Stick around and you could make some real money.

  472. Jeff G. says:

    This site isn’t nishi’s (and happy’s) to play with.

    Please stop responding now. We’ve provided answers in any and every way.

    I’m going to begin removing the redundancies.

  473. geoffb says:

    As there is “genius” and there is “Super-Genius”, so to there is rational and there is Super-Rational.

  474. Slartibartfast says:

    unless she can empty the grease-buckets

    Actually, those are kind of heavy. I doubt the griefer takes the time from incessant techno name-dropping to do anything so mundane as iron-pumping. Especially when improved transhuman bodies are JUST AROUND THE CORNER. I mean, why bother?

    Trickier even, but more useful as a skill, is emptying the grease traps into the buckets. Hot, large, narrow, ungainly stainless-steel box full of grease more or less melted off the burgers, mixed in with grill scrapings, the odd burger that’s accidentally fallen in there, and (possibly) pancakes. Chunky. You’ll want to use a fork.

  475. Slartibartfast says:

    Oh. Sorry.

    I was about done, anyway. Even the ridicule is getting old.

  476. Darleen says:

    #234 dicentra

    BRAVA!

  477. Pablo says:

    OT, but another stupid, whiny bitch, @Patterico

    I’ve got you under my skin
    I’ve got you deep in the heart of me *

  478. Jeff G. says:

    Once Patterico realizes that it’s not him — but rather what I consider to be dangerous ideas that he happens to espouse — that I “poke and prod at daily” (supposedly), he might actually learn something.

  479. geoffb says:

    Sorry here also for #477.

  480. happyfeet says:

    look Jeff I am not in some sort of league with nishi

    she doesn’t frazzle me is all.

  481. SDN says:

    “It posits the God of the Gaps, whose realm shrinks ever as we discover more and more stuff.”

    Actually, no. What it posits is St Augustine’s First Cause. And asks that if the laws of Thermodynamics prove that entropy always increases, how did the universe reach it’s initial, highly-organized state? This is a valid question. And why I have no conflict in believing in a God who created the universe, and the existence of a rational scientific system that lets us discover how He set things up to work.

    And the only “conflict” between the two is caused by people who refuse to understand that God decided not to explain His Creation in terms of millions of years to a collection of folks who didn’t even have the concept of 0 yet.

  482. Jeff G. says:

    And seriously. I haven’t been to his site in ages. Why does he troll through the comments here looking for references to his past mistakes? It’s sad.

    More, even. It’s kind of pathetic.

    Tweet that.

  483. happyfeet says:

    here is a story about how the future of health care is… Wal-Mart…

    cause of it has in-store clinics.

    Wonderful.

  484. JD says:

    Has the liberal mainstream media picked up on the story of another Republican being beaten up by the peace-lovin’ leftists? The ones that nishit assumed were minorities?

  485. JHo says:

    What, no proof of no first domino, SDN? Madness!

  486. Bob Reed says:

    I agree completely SDN…

  487. JHo says:

    here is a story about how the future of health care is… Wal-Mart

    They and the eevill corporations have the best reach and success into the dependency class. They should be in private health and private education. Anything beats the State.

  488. happyfeet says:

    I’m not saying they shouldn’t be involved I just think it means we’re not near done with the reformings, JHo.

    Wal-Mart banking on health cares is intolerable to these ones I think, or will be soon enough.

  489. Darleen says:

    And seriously. I haven’t been to his site in ages.

    Maybe he is not as sure of his own arguments about “intentionalism” as he pretends to be (and based on his latest “intentionalism” post, he still doesnt). Hypersensitivity combined with control issues and seasoned with paranoia doesn’t make a pretty picture or a happy camper.

  490. Andrew the Noisy says:

    @487 CVS has them, too. They’re awesome.

    the odd burger that’s accidentally fallen in there, and (possibly) pancakes. Chunky. You’ll want to use a fork.

    Now I’m all hungry.

  491. Mikey NTH says:

    I think it is funny that the TTP who says her (unsupported) belief that conservatives are under-intelligent and under-educated claims that she just wants to have a discussion – and expects everyone to believe her.

  492. Carin says:

    I think it’s awesome to put those clinics in stores. There is one at our grocery store. Earaches and pink eye – you don’t need no stinking doctor for that. Part of the problem of health care if you ask me.

  493. happyfeet says:

    I bet Wal-Mart ends up regretting it got involved is all.

    This will end in tears.

  494. JHo says:

    Come on, ‘feets, it’ll end in something made functional by way of the need to be functional. That’s as much as you can expect from any system. Unless you’re the State.

  495. JD says:

    Mikey – Most attempts at discussion do not involve claims of Jesusland, racist, uneducated hicktards, stupid deadenders, lies, smears, and baseless assertion.

  496. Mikey NTH says:

    #474 Bob Reed:

    Nishi may be recounting were I recognized her as matoko who commented at Dean Esmay’s about how the Pope was the one at fault when the Somali thugs killed that nun – the Regensburg Address had just been given – and I told matoko to stick a nail-studded bat up her rear sideways and let it spin at a high rpm.

    She intentionally got it wrong, of course. I wasn’t going to do that (hence no threat), I was merely suggesting that she do that herself. It might get loose all of the vile crap she is full of.

  497. Mikey NTH says:

    My bad – didn’t get all the way through (still not done reading) before commenting.

  498. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Part of the problem of health care if you ask me.

    I concur. At this stage of history, humans know far more about how the body works than previously. I know what I need if I have pink eye. It should be a relatively simple procedure.

  499. geoffb says:

    Love, unrequited. Always the same story when you fall for a narcissist. When he next wants something be prepared to instantly grovel, or else.

  500. happyfeet says:

    ok but I betcha monies their clinics aren’t “their” clinics for all too terribly long

  501. Andrew the Noisy says:

    ok but I betcha monies their clinics aren’t “their” clinics for all too terribly long

    Probably. But that’s the kind of thing we should be fighting for.

  502. JD says:

    Yet another reason for the leftists to attack Wally World. How dare they provide healthcare?

  503. Danger says:

    “My google-fu is no match for yours, geoffb, although I did find it…”

    geoffb is a judan level google-master. He should get a stipend for being the PW historian as well;)

  504. JHo says:

    What Andrew the Noisy said, ‘feets.

  505. Danger says:

    “Happyfeet, sir, I appreciate your principled attempt to publically recognize Nishi’s humanity. I share your desires. I would also rejoin that rhetorical cover for her ugliness does not redound to the hope that others will share your appreciation for her humanity. What’s more, I would argue that it enables said ugliness, y’know? Her virtual countenance is not merely “controversial,” it is ugly, spiteful, and self-aggrandizing. These are not principles to which you aspire, yes? No harm in noting them.”

    Amen Mal,

    So let it be said, so let it be done!

  506. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Examples of epistemic closure on this site.
    One example is continuing to use Breitbart as a trusted source when he has admitted to manipulating data to fit an agenda.
    Another example is Sanity attempting to use epistemtic closure on WFB’s half-century old (now irrelevant) observations on criticism of conservatism.
    I gave several examples of Peewee Herman argumentation, “i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i”, which is a tactic also also used by Breitbart and Goldberg.

    Since I don’t republish private emails, you are free to say what you like about that.
    I found this post pretty much answered all my questions.

  507. happyfeet says:

    wait… I’m ignorant…

    apparently Wal-Mart has the same sort of wariness about getting too involved the government’s health care delivery bidness…

    Please note: Each medical clinic located in a Walmart store is owned and operated by an independent company that is unaffiliated with Walmart. Walmart does not employ any health care professionals or exercise any control over the provision of health care services at the clinics.*

  508. Danger says:

    Ok,

    How am I to give out props to all the good peeps here if you all don’t slow down.
    Afterall, I’m workin on dial up speed here;)

  509. Slartibartfast says:

    That Newton is soooo 1687!

  510. Danger says:

    Gym time Outlaws! (Prolly not gonna match Jeff’s 39 minute pace though;)

  511. JHo says:

    Another example is Sanity attempting to use epistemtic closure on WFB’s half-century old (now irrelevant) observations on criticism of conservatism.

    Irrelevant?

    1) Conservatism does not exist. 2) Conservatism does exist, but it is not an intellectual problem; it is one of pathology. 3) Conservatism does exist–as a lowering political force that threatens to ring in a new Dark Age.

  512. Andrew the Noisy says:

    The trouble with honkies is you’re never sure if the warbling babble issuing from their lips is a mating cry or not.

    All I know is, when they complain of hostile argumentation in a comment laden with Appeals to Novelty, my dick gets confused.

  513. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    JHo, yes irrelevent.
    1. Conservatism empirically exists.
    2. Conservatism is not a problem of “pathology”.
    3. Conservatism is not going to return us to a new Dark Age.

    What Sanchez and others are discussing is if conservatism has become epistemically closed as an ideology and rejects empirical data.

  514. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Sillie me, I thought Jeff might be interested in the discussion.
    My bad.

  515. JD says:

    Conservatism is bad. Please discuss. Racists. Deadenders. Go live in Jesusland. Minorities mug people. I just want discussion. Lulz.

  516. happyfeet says:

    *with* the government’s health care delivery bidness I mean

  517. JD says:

    Yes, you are a lying silly git, nishit.

  518. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    No, JD, I said White Christian Conservatism is a deadend.
    And I just want you all to be happy.
    Jesusland would be perfect for you.

  519. JD says:

    Really, you cying lunt? Why exactly would that be? I would be happy if you and yours quit trying to take what me and mine have earned. That would be a good starting point. I would also be happy if you and yours quit spending my money to the point where my great great grandchildren will be born into debt. You just want to call people racists and puke out your gibberish.

  520. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Jesusland is perfect. Especially in the imagination of honkies.

    Elsewhere, it’s kind of like vampires.

  521. JD says:

    I just recalibrated my ironymeter and WTFmeters, which Nishit promptly shattered with her whining about being called names, and how she just wants a discussion. Conservatism is bad. Discuss.

  522. Andrew the Noisy says:

    We hurts the honky’s feelings with our big mean words, yes we do…

  523. Slartibartfast says:

    Please do not entertain the griefer.

  524. JHo says:

    JHo, yes irrelevent.
    1. Conservatism empirically exists.
    2. Conservatism is not a problem of “pathology”.
    3. Conservatism is not going to return us to a new Dark Age.

    May the host forgive me (and delete this) if it’s redundant, but Buckley perfectly describes the strategy conservatism’s opponents increasingly use this half century after he made the observation, thereby rendering that observation not only relevant, but prescient. I don’t much give a shit if Sanchez and others are “discussing” if conservatism has become epistemically closed as an ideology and rejects empirical data and if I had to hazard a guess, I’d say that Buckley’s context – to say nothing of the man’s mind – gave a shit either.

    That lack of empiricism bullshit would be you projecting your ego over reality again. The nation is empirically bankrupt as the result of progressive entitlement policy. Jackass.

    And I’m really thinking this is redundant, so my apology JG. Sheesh.

  525. JHo says:

    hardly gave a shit either, actually.

  526. JD says:

    nishit is morally bankrupt. It has been proven, empirically.

  527. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    This is the truest article I have read this week.

    The reason we pay attention to Beck is that he both comforts and flatters his audience; he makes them feel good, and good about themselves. And by “them” I mean the two groups that obsess over Beck the most: tea partiers and liberals. Tea partiers are driven by the belief that the America that elected Barack Obama isn’t their America, and Beck comforts them by telling them they’re right: that the America they love, the America they now feel so distant from, the America of faith and the Founders and some sort of idyllic Leave It to Beaver past, is still there, waiting to be awakened from Obama’s evil spell. And he flatters them by saying that the coastal elites are too stupid or too lazy to figure out what’s really going on; only his loyal viewers are perceptive enough to see the truth and, ultimately, to save the nation. In other words, Beck makes the tea partiers feel, as Hofstadter put it, as if they are “the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph,” which is better than feeling disenfranchised, marginalized, and looked down upon.
    For liberals, Beck serves a similar purpose. In an era of massive problems and extreme change—the Great Recession, the health-care overhaul, etc.—liberals can avoid the difficult question of whether Obama is leading America in the right direction by simply telling themselves that the only alternative would be someone like Glenn Beck: hyperbolic, demagogic, irrational, and slightly unhinged—”just like all conservatives.” This is comforting. And by choosing to argue against Beck’s patently absurd insinuations instead of, say, the legitimate policy proposals of someone like Rep. Paul Ryan—the progressive fact-checking site Media Matters posts about 15 anti-Beck items a day—liberals can flatter themselves into believing they’re smarter and better informed than anyone who happens to disagree with them.

    You see….liberals (like me) are astonished that conservatives embrace Beck’s silliness and anti-empiricism.
    So we do think you are stupid.
    And Beck and Palin and the teabaggers make it so we can dismiss Ryan and his often clever proposals as just more teabagger noise.

  528. Carin says:

    What Sanchez and others are discussing is if our cartoon version ofconservatism has become epistemically closed as an ideology and rejects empirical data.

    FTFY

  529. JD says:

    How do my ballz taste, Nishit?

  530. JD says:

    Carin – If they did not have their cartoon caricatures in their heads, they would have nothing to argue with, you stupid racist Jesuslander.

  531. Slartibartfast says:

    empirically

    JD, that is sooo 1961.

  532. Carin says:

    And he flatters them by saying that the coastal elites are too stupid or too lazy to figure out what’s really going on; only his loyal viewers are perceptive enough to see the truth and, ultimately, to save the nation.

    uhm, no.

  533. JD says:

    Slarti – Nishit’s racism would be more comfortable for her in 1961 than today, no?

  534. Slartibartfast says:

    No, I was referring to the empiricism. It’s kind of a dated concept.

  535. JD says:

    Some people would not recognize truth if it whacked them in the forehead with an ice dong.

  536. Slartibartfast says:

    That sounded threatening, JD.

  537. JD says:

    I am a bad person, with hard edges, Slarti.

  538. Slartibartfast says:

    Oh, damnit, sorry. Some things just are very very slow to lose their amusement factor.

  539. JHo says:

    The empiricism of collectivism. Its track record, its rubber on the road, its means-justifying-ends. It’s alpha and omega, it’s touchstone, the proof in its pudding. Its philosophy, its manifesto, its bible. It’s like the truest thing I’ve read all century.

    But Beck maligns Obarky simply because an opinion says Beck maligns Obarky. Empiricism.

  540. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Nah, JHo……if WFB was here today I think he would define the narrative more like this…..

    1. Conservatives are stupid.
    2. Conservatives are racists.
    3. Conservatives are crazy.

    The media presents the teapartiers as isomorphic to conservatives, as representative visuals, angry old white people with sillie costumes and poorly spelled racist signs.

  541. JD says:

    You will prolly end up in a gulag for that one, Slarti.

  542. Carin says:

    Some things just are very very slow to lose their amusement factor.

    I can’t think of a single thing that’s lost it’s amusement, here, for me.

    Balloon fences, for example. And cockslapping.

  543. JD says:

    This is a discussion?

    That is a fucking lie, and you are a fucking liar, nishit the cockswallower.

  544. JHo says:

    The media certainly does that, nuggie.

  545. Carin says:

    Shit. Can we have something intelligent to talk about? I’m bored, but still not bored enough to be baited by that last one.

  546. JD says:

    PERCEPTION IS REALITY YOU RACIST WINGNUTZ AND DEMOGRAPHICS WILL MAKE YOU OBSOLETE TO YOU WEC’S SHOULD JUST TRY TO SECEDE AGAIN AND START YOUR OWN JESUSLAND WHERE YOU CAN PRACTICE YOUR STUPIDITY AND RACISMS TO YOUR HEARTS CONTENT ALL WHILE THE ENLIGHTENED ILLIBERAL SECPROGGS LEAD US INTO A PERFECT WORLD.

  547. bh says:

    That is a lie and you are a liar, griefer.

  548. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Well….you let them.
    Conservatism in WFB’s day had new ideas.
    There are no new ideas now.
    For example, Jeff and Levin want to go back to the old social cohesion models by adding something new…..but Jeff can’t explain what that could be.
    That was the whole argument….evolution doesn’t go backwards.
    That is devolution.

  549. happyfeet says:

    WFP broke with Team R on the war before he died.

    It’s always the first thing that comes to mind when he comes up.

  550. JD says:

    THAT IS A LIE AND YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR GRIEFER.

  551. bh says:

    That is a boring, overly-repeated lie and you are a dull liar, griefer.

  552. JHo says:

    No, I didn’t let them, nuggie. I protest their mendacity nearly as much as I do yours. Accept that your premise is flawed. Can you?

  553. JD says:

    I am still curious why nishit, the non-racist, assumed that the muggers in this story were minorities.

  554. Andrew the Noisy says:

    And by choosing to argue against Beck’s patently absurd insinuations instead of, say, the legitimate policy proposals of someone like Rep. Paul Ryan—the progressive fact-checking site Media Matters posts about 15 anti-Beck items a day—liberals can flatter themselves into believing they’re smarter and better informed than anyone who happens to disagree with them.

    The dumb honky, it cannot read. QED.

    ‘Course, it would be lovely if Newsweek would follow this with a detailed report of Rep. Ryan’s “legitimate policy proposals,” but somehow, they’d rather write about Glenn Beck. Weird.

  555. JD says:

    This would be an interesting discussion. Nishit the Genocidal Eugenecist is a racisty racist. Please discuss.

  556. JHo says:

    As for devolution, tyranny is the devolved dead end, deadender. Link provided.

  557. Carin says:

    WFT broke with “Team R” on ONE idea. And, given that he died at that point, we can’t really say where that trajectory would have lead him.

    But, I can pretty much guarantee it wouldn’t have resulted in anything but opposition to Obama and what’s going on in Washington right now.

  558. happyfeet says:

    I think Paul Ryan is new ideas. He’s not a mavericky homo. He doesn’t blow smoke up people’s asses. He’s not a spokesmodel.

    He’s real.

  559. JHo says:

    QED.

    You see….liberals (like me) are astonished that conservatives embrace Beck’s silliness and anti-empiricism.
    So we do think you are stupid.

    QED!

  560. JD says:

    AtN – They are holding themselves out to be somehow better than the Soros buttboyz at MediaMatterz, while doing the exact same thing that those clowns do.

  561. happyfeet says:

    I said WFP instead of WFB.

    I just think of that cause Carin cause it wasn’t long after that our little country began embracing a philosophy of decline management.

  562. happyfeet says:

    cause cause I’m late again you people are gonna get me fired

  563. JD says:

    Why does nishit keep claiming to be liberal when it is demonstrably not?

  564. Slartibartfast says:

    “new” != “good”

    Remember when Yugos were new? What else is new? Justin Bieber, I think.

  565. Carin says:

    I turned WFB into WFT. Finger is misfiring.

    There were many conservatives who weren’t happy about Iraq, my FIL was one of them. He, too, has since died. But he certainly wouldn’t be boasting team O either.

  566. JD says:

    Twitter is new. Barcky is new. The Camaro is new again.

  567. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Precisely, JD. This is how the lame-stream maintains their ever-diminishing pretense of objectivity.

  568. Slartibartfast says:

    I’d settle for decent execution on the old ideas. Horrible execution on new ideas isn’t necessarily an improvement, even if the ideas themselves are better.

    Which reminds me: I saw a 1987-ish CRX in the parking lot at work; it had about $2k worth of tires and racy-looking alloy wheels, plus a really big exhaust pipe.

    I bet that bitch was fast. Everywhere except under the hood.

  569. JHo says:

    Behavioralism is new, Slart. It’s not like oligarchical favoritism at all and never could be. And I reject it’s resemblance to hierarchical collectivism, which is to say collectivism.

    You see…QED^QED.

  570. JD says:

    Slarti – So its tires were worth, or rather the tires cost more than the car was worth?

  571. JHo says:

    Admittedly, having The Right People™ on hand would be new in the collectivist, behavioralist, Leninist, fail-state, liberal sense, so let’s hear it for The Right People™. Brazil ho.

  572. Slartibartfast says:

    So its tires were worth, or rather the tires cost more than the car was worth?

    Tires and wheels together, yes. Kind of like Clinton’s haircut, no?

    OTOH there’s this dude that has a 1995 Lexus; pretty innocuous-looking. Original wheels, stock-looking tires. Stance is pretty stock-looking; maybe a teensy bit lowered but you could get the same effect from some spring sag.

    He’s turned low 10-second quarters, just changing the back tires for racing slicks. That is the kind of shit we need, politically. Less pretty-sounding talk, and more intelligent action.

  573. Slartibartfast says:

    sans nitrous, even.

  574. Andrew the Noisy says:

    so let’s hear it for The Right People™

    Meh. The Dynastic Cycle is a bitch. David is always followed by Solomon, and Solomon by Rehoboam.

  575. JD says:

    I lurv my Lexus. Bunches.

  576. JHo says:

    Weren’t turbo Supras disco’d in ’99 or something? At 1k+ hp, still mighty fast. Same thing for the little 4G63 4-holer, now breaking 1400hp from 2.0l street iron. Effective winners all. But for the devolution.

  577. Slartibartfast says:

    I mean, you get in his car, he fires up the engine, and it sounds maybe a bit more imposing than stock. Then…get this…he turns on the air conditioner. And it works!

    A few minutes later, you pull out of the parking lot and then zoom, your eyeballs are mashed flat against the back of your skull.

  578. JD says:

    Mazda RX7’s used to be quite similar to the Toyota Supra turbo. The power to weight ratios were amazing.

  579. Slartibartfast says:

    This guy’s running a single-turbo 3L straight 6. Just about the same motor as the twin turbo, I think.

    The turbo is large, though, and the air pipes between it and the innercooler are huge.

    Fuel system is terrifically nonstock. Tranny is a multi-disk racing tranny. Rear end is totally stock, except for the shocks. But…get this…stock crank.

    He’s rear-wheeled the thing out in the mid 900s, I think. That’s on aviation gas; he’s putting out nearly 800 on super unleaded. No roll cage, though. Custom tag is SLEEPR. You really can’t tell, until he nails it, that there’s anything at all unusual about it. Unless you squint and notice that he’s got oversize disks and calipers in front, but it’s not that obvious.

  580. JHo says:

    The old school that 60 years later, led to the fastest 1/4 mile cars on the planet.

  581. JD says:

    That is bigger than NASCAR horsepower, Slarti. It would be a challenge to keep that on the ground.

    Hemi’s rock.

  582. Slartibartfast says:

    I had an RX-7, 1980 vintage. The only thing I did to it was, aside from replacing various problematic bits, replace the exhaust system from engine back. I think that tacked on something like 30 or 40 hp, so restrictive was the stock exhaust.

    Totally worth what I spent on it. 140hp in a 2300lb car is not too bad. I could have jacked it way up over 200hp without any internal engine mods, but that next step up cost something like $1500, which I didn’t have at the time.

  583. happyfeet says:

    but is it fast enough so we can fly away?

  584. sdferr says:

    Dude, you’ve a destination in mind? Let us know, so’s we can mull it over.

  585. Slartibartfast says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqtJTlXON8

    Sacriledge…Toyota power in a Camaro.

  586. happyfeet says:

    am I the only Tracy Chapman fan?

    I guess you have to be really really staunch to be secure enough to cozy up to Tracy Chapman.

  587. sdferr says:

    I hate Tracy Chapman, but it’s a long story. Simple though. Hate.

  588. happyfeet says:

    cause of her is why I embraced N’degeocello I think

  589. bh says:

    The year was 1989. The place was a dangerous pachinko parlor in Tokyo. They entered friends. They left enemies. Sdferr vs. Chapman: First Conflict.

  590. sdferr says:

    Heh, not pachinko parlor but Mitsubishi Montero Boston bound from D.C., so close enough.

  591. happyfeet says:

    you got to meet Tracy for reals?

    that is very cool

    except when it’s not I guess

  592. happyfeet says:

    her old man had a problem you know

  593. sdferr says:

    I got to meet Tracy’s first offering on cassette tape.

    Again.

    And again.

    And again again.

    Repeating for all those murderous hours.

    Hate.

    Same thing happened with Jimmy Buffett, only over a longer span, on a fishing boat at sea for a week. Kill him.

  594. Carin says:

    Tracy doesn’t have an old “man” if you know what I mean and I think that you do.

  595. Carin says:

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  596. Carin says:

    sdferr – that happened to me with 10,000 maniacs. A gay guy (who I didn’t care for, because he was “after” my boyfriend) sung to the whole album over and over.

  597. happyfeet says:

    oh. I think the and you can say baby baby let me hold you tonight song is a classic from that one.

    ..

    ..

    staunchy!

  598. sdferr says:

    What alarming thing today?

    A glimpse of a poll analysis on the FNC, having to do with the Tea Party movement and the ongoing partitioning of same into Republican vs. Democrat categorization.

    This is wrong — phenomenologically speaking — on its face, I think, but worse, is consonant with Democrat party aims. Boo. And evil.

  599. Carin says:

    I’ve got a version of Tracy sining “O Holy Night” – and that’s nice. But generally she’s (way) too mellow for me.

  600. happyfeet says:

    not-mellow Tracy would be very frightening though I think

  601. Carin says:

    Poor people gonna rise up and get their share,
    poor people gonna rise up and take what’s there,
    don’t you know you better run, run run run run.

  602. happyfeet says:

    I always though it was their’s

    she’s quite a marxist really

  603. Carin says:

    Oops, take what’s THEIRS.

    What is theirs?

    No, I’ll stick with my Tool.

  604. happyfeet says:

    *thought* I mean

  605. Carin says:

    Yes, it was my error. You are right.

  606. Slartibartfast says:

    Her wikipedia entry has the words: “Succeeded by Milli Vanilli”

    So, their fame lives on, at least, if only piggybacked on someone else’s.

    Which is fitting, I think.

  607. Jeff G. says:

    Examples of epistemic closure on this site.
    One example is continuing to use Breitbart as a trusted source when he has admitted to manipulating data to fit an agenda.

    Not an example of epistemic closure

    Another example is Sanity attempting to use epistemtic closure on WFB’s half-century old (now irrelevant) observations on criticism of conservatism.

    Not an example of epistemic closure.

    I gave several examples of Peewee Herman argumentation, “i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i”, which is a tactic also also used by Breitbart and Goldberg.

    Not an example of epistemic closure.

    And example of epistemic closure? Pushing forward with cap and trade and green initiatives even as the the science is falling apart.
    Another example? Telling yourselves conservatives are stupid and close-minded and reject empiricism, then refusing to hear or see anything to the contrary.

    — Which makes you stupid, close-minded, and someone who reject empiricism. You want to call that a Pee Wee Herman-type argument, fine. All I see is projection and transference on your part, coupled with my ability to spot and highlight it.

  608. Mike LaRoche says:

    Another specific example of epistemic closure: shutting down the promising Constellation program – thus ending manned space exploration for the foreseeable future – to have NASA “refocus” on solving the nonexistent problem of anthropogenic global warming.

    That is the ultimate example of Obama’s anti-science stupidity.

  609. happyfeet says:

    also epistemical closures are include failure to proceed with trade deals while promising aggressive export promotion and stating a goal of energy independence while refusing to develop domestic energy resources.

  610. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Yup WFB is an example of epistemic closure.
    Over a half century later you still think his observations are valid.
    They are not.
    We don’t think any of those things about conservatism anymore.

    However, lIberals DO think conservatives are stupid because they are getting scammed by mountebanks and grifters like Palin and Levin and Beck, who are promising them a return to Leave it to Beaver fantasyland when the empirical data renders that impossible..
    “we surround you” lol.

    I’ll give you the other two.
    Those are really examples of anti-empiricism.

    But another example of epistemic closure is adhering to the fantasy that conservatism is liberal (you) or progressive (CK)…..it is not.
    It is conservative, and favors adherence to the status quo and reuse of established policy.
    The problem is, established conservative policies FAIL in the 21st century, yet you still only offer stale, expired ideas that brought us the Econopalypse.

  611. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    pardon, the SAME stale, expired ideas that brought us the Econopalypse.

  612. JHo says:

    Unbelievable.

  613. sdferr says:

    Can taking epistemology seriously possibly involve discussion with objective know-nothings who can’t help themselves but to squeeze the subject into artificial political categories?

  614. JD says:

    As opposed to Leftist policies that have proven to fail throughout man’s existence?

  615. Pablo says:

    The memebot is still chugging, huh? Yawn.

  616. JD says:

    Nishit – Again, those are lies, and you are a fucking liar.

  617. JHo says:

    Jesusland meets Teh Transhumanists.

    QED^QED!

  618. happyfeet says:

    I don’t understand about the Econopalypse.

  619. The problem is, established conservative policies FAIL in the 21st century, yet you still only offer stale, expired ideas that brought us the Econopalypse.

    Keep telling yourself this. I know you’ll keep telling us this.

    But another example of epistemic closure is adhering to the fantasy that conservatism is liberal (you) or progressive (CK) government control of capital, markets, speech, education, natural resources and the means of production is not reactionary …..it is.

  620. JHo says:

    It’s wordplay, ‘feets.

  621. Slartibartfast says:

    Please. The griefer is griefing.

    Let her grief alone.

  622. bh says:

    What Slart said.

  623. bh says:

    Also, what JD said.

  624. happyfeet says:

    no youtubes at work…

  625. Bob Reed says:

    Great MPyton link JHo!

  626. Jeff G. says:

    But another example of epistemic closure is adhering to the fantasy that conservatism is liberal (you)

    I don’t call myself conservative. You call me that.

    If you call me — a classical liberal — a “conservative,” then it isn’t a “fantasy” that conservatism, as re-defined by leftists, is liberal, just as it isn’t a fantasy to note that most of the people who call themselves “liberal” these days actually are not.

    But hey, let’s do it your way. I declare myself President.

    There. That makes it so.

    Empiricism!

    Ideas!

  627. Jim Ryan says:

    Shorter Nishi:

    Look at me!!

  628. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    sry, but I fail to understand how any sort of social conservatism can be liberal.
    the two memes are mutually exclusive.
    You are welcome to link me an explanation, since I must have missed it.
    And speaking of “new” models, just exactly how would one “update” Levin’s social cohesion model for the 21st century?
    Given the initial conditions of constitutional precedent and the 21st century demographic and cultural environment, of course.

  629. JD says:

    Those, again, are lies and you are a vile fucking disgusting liar.

  630. DarthRove says:

    President Goldstein, let me be the first to congratulate you, and can I please be on the spaceship before you initiate the Econopalypse?

  631. JD says:

    Except for that “I fail to understand” part, which might be the only accidentally honest thing you have every typed.

  632. Squid says:

    I’m sorry, but I fail to understand how any sort of social conservatism can be liberal. The two memes are mutually exclusive.

    You may understand the two to be mutually exclusive, but that does not necessary make it so.

    For instance, a lot of pro-lifers see themselves as advocates for the life and liberty of unborn children. Yes, I’m sure you can provide examples of godbothering wife-beaters who just want to control teh wimminz, but that brush can’t be used to paint those who argue in good faith to protect the unborn. Now, you may argue that a fetus has no value until it’s out of the womb, but that does not necessary make it so.

    As another instance, you can take a look at affirmative action programs, which privilege an African-American whose great-great-grandfather raided, captured, and sold into slavery the members of a rival tribe, over a Norwegian-American whose great-grandfather died on Cemetery Ridge to help free those same slaves. Treating citizens based on the content of their character, and not on the color of their skin, seems a hell of a lot more liberal than such a system.

    Mind you, I’m no social conservative, and I think you (willfully or not) mischaracterize Jeff when you try to attach that label to him. Nevertheless, there are occasions when social conservatism acts to conserve liberty.

    Now, perhaps you’d like to visit the archives and read a few dozen thousand words about how today’s so-called liberals are working tirelessly to restrain the liberties that their classical namesakes fought so hard to preserve.

  633. Slartibartfast says:

    I fail to understand how any sort of social conservatism can be liberal

    Excellent! Jeff’s not a social conservative.

    The rest of us…well, I imagine it varies. We don’t have that much of an ideological lockstep going on, here, other than intolerance of reading-impaired idiots.

  634. Silver Whistle says:

    I am a classical liberal. My own personal preferences may tend to the socially conservative, but I absolutely refuse to impose those preferences on anyone else, and refuse to have theirs imposed on me. There is no inherent contradiction – it is in the desire to impose social conservatism on others that problems arise. See, for example, the late disagreements regarding the Letterman/Palin joke factions.

  635. Makewi says:

    evolution made bunnies and cucumbers and pikachus and puppy dogs and muskrats and corn which the Indians called maize.

    Maybe. But the proof that this is so just isn’t there. What is there is that evolution (or more accurately, natural selection) made birds that became differentiated enough from each other to be considered categorically separate. What was once one, is now two. How far that dividing goes back is absolutely in dispute, or less argumenty, in question.

  636. Slartibartfast says:

    Actually, we made corn. Also edible almonds. And a few dozen other things that, without human influence, simply would not exist in any recognizable form. Most definitely including domesticated dogs and cats.

    Arguably, humans are an evolutionary force not much different than other evolutionary forces, except what we’ve done is more hybridization than speciation. So far, anyway. But we’ve served to, for instance, almost completely eliminate prussic-acid-bearing almonds from that species.

  637. bh says:

    The lying liar lies. And griefs most grieferly.

    Ideas!

  638. Andrew the Noisy says:

    sry, but I fail to understand

    Now that’s the first thing you’ve said right.

  639. Danger says:

    “However, lIberals DO think conservatives are stupid because they are getting scammed by mountebanks and grifters like Palin and Levin and Beck, who are promising them a return to Leave it to Beaver fantasyland when the empirical data renders that impossible..
    “we surround you” lol.”

    THATS IT!!!!
    Nishi is Jimmy Carter

  640. Squid says:

    …and corn which the Indians called maize.

    Now I need to go dig up my old King Missile albums.

  641. bh says:

    King Missile? Hey, I remember them.

  642. Abe Froman says:

    a return to Leave it to Beaver fantasyland

    It’s funny how vulnerable idiots like Nishi are to this sort of leftist trope. It has so permeated empty heads that if you watch enough films from the postwar era and look at the IMDB comments which accompany them you can only laugh at the pattern of comments where dimwits continually express surprise at what filmmakers “got away with.” The self-proclaimed smart, sophisticated people somehow amazed that things like adultery, human depravity and clever innuendo were rampant in film before fillmakers were free to beat people over the head with the obvious.

  643. SteveG says:

    “evolution doesn’t go backwards”

    A brief observation of the fossil record shows that sometimes things go backwards.. and so what?
    It’s not like the whole Darwinist belief system comes crashing down over it.
    If I want to twist the Darwinist mind, I can insist on describing the processes of evolution as “creative” and then watch them try to exorcise a perfectly descriptive word from the liturgy.

  644. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    but that brush can’t be used to paint those who argue in good faith to protect the unborn.

    lies.
    none of you give a shit about the unborn….or you would seek to prosecute women who have have abortions….that is murder isn’t it?
    also, you do not seek to prevent the hundreds of thousands of unborn fetuses generated every year and held in terminal cryostasis as by-products of fertility therapy.
    Free the fetuses!
    Why don’t you volunteer your wives and daughters as hostwombs?
    Also, too [a palinism] many of you give an exemption for the fetal products of rape of incest…..that is still murder, isnt it?
    the reason you turn to a blind eye to this hypocrisy is that it is politically inexpedient.
    hypocrites and liars, all the way down.

  645. Makewi says:

    WTF would ‘going backward’ even mean in terms of evolution? Dropping an adaptation that is still required for increased chance of survival?

  646. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Methinks the honky doth protest too much.

    This is how they do…an unreasonable standard to which they would not apply themselves.

    At the same time, calling you a hypocrite.

    It does not think. It does not argue. It cannot read.

    It is humanfail.

  647. Makewi says:

    The boxes that Nishi builds to think inside are amusing only so long as they don’t break free and escape into the larger world.

  648. Makewi says:

    For example

    This

    none of you give a shit about the unborn….or you would seek to prosecute women who have have abortions….that is murder isn’t it?

    Can you really think in such a closed binary formulation and still think yourself smart or wise? This just isn’t how the world works. I suspect it’s how nishi needs it to work so that she can continue to have the illusions of herself that her ego currently demands, but the real world, the one with actual people in it, is far messier.

    Lulz.

  649. Slartibartfast says:

    Why don’t you volunteer your wives and daughters as hostwombs?

    Why, because we don’t own them.

    Who owns you?

  650. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    and the other reason im stone cold positive that you COLLECTIVELY don’t give a shit about the unborn is that you have ZERO interest in ectogenesis.
    because then you couldn’t scream BABYKILLER and get the teatards all hot and bothered.
    well, guess what?
    full term human ectogenesis is going to be viable within the next 10 years.
    whatcha gonna do then to inflame the passions of your low information base?

  651. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    okfine Slart, they can volunteer themselves as hostwombs for the frozen diploid oocytes….and prevent the icy genocide of teh unborn.
    bettah?

  652. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Ah, I see.

    The honky has the time machine.

    Who gave her the keys?

  653. Carin says:

    Isn’t it time for the orderlies to come and take nishi to her quiet place?

  654. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    How many frozen embryos does it take to make a holocaust?
    Is it as many as the Holocaust of aborted fetuses your fringe raves about?
    Which is it Slart….are you really so stupid that you can’t see the contradictions in the LIFE! position?
    Are are you so dishonest tht you don’t give a flying fuck.
    Im goin with the latter.

  655. Carin says:

    There there dear. You’re raving.

  656. Abe Froman says:

    GRIEFER MADNESS!!!!

  657. Makewi says:

    ectogenesis means people will stop fucking, getting pregnant and having abortions.

    Smart, more evolved thinking you see.

  658. sdferr says:

    Caught at the right time, them things can be eaten unformed bones and all, whole, ya might say, spit-roasted with only a little salt, pepper and vinegar to relieve the sweetness. Takes a hell of a lot of ’em to make a meal though.

  659. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    nope..it means that late-term abortions can be harvested and nutured to full term in an artificial womb.
    So you won’t have to bomb clinics and slaughter doctors any more.
    IPOF…you good christians can adopt and raise all the downs syndrome. cri du chat, spina bifida and w/e horrific genetic anomaly babies you want.
    And you wont be able to guilt/force the poor biological mother into doing it.
    Knock yourselves out.
    :)

  660. Bob Reed says:

    “…you have ZERO interest in ectogenesis.

    That’s because we don’t want to see a world of matrix style human hatching come to pass nishi. It is not only a perversion of the biological process by which new life is created, there is no guarantee that there may not be flaws in the output of such processes-like has happened with some cloned animals, or even the social ramifications of such processes…

    Who would be their parents? The state? And what of the philisophical issues? Are they meant to be our servants? Are then naturally gestated people better, worse, or the same as artificially gestated ones? Is it playing God, or creating Frankenstein’s monsters?

    There are many that want no part of the brave new world you and your ilk are offering.

  661. Andrew the Noisy says:

    heh. anyone else catch the number of the honky’s last post?

    The irony, it sizzles enough to cook sausages.

  662. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    of course…if you CAN’T find adoptive or foster familes then the poor genetic anomaly will be raised very expensively (for however long it survives) as a ward of the state with YOUR taxpayer dollars.
    Sweet!

  663. happyfeet says:

    ectogenesis babies sound very very expensive

  664. happyfeet says:

    how much would one cost exactly?

  665. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Bob Reed you are a teatard AND a bioluddite..
    How many people undergo invitro fertilization in fertility therapy every year?
    and it doesn’t matter what you think, because there is definitely a niche for artificial wombs in the free market.
    think about it…..women with incompetant cervixes can have babies with out being on bedrest….SSM couples can have biological children, and genetic engineering to repair genetic disease can be accomplished far more easily….designer babies and germline enhancement also.
    Capitalisma si!

  666. Andrew the Noisy says:

    if you CAN’T find adoptive or foster familes then the poor genetic anomaly will be raised very expensively (for however long it survives) as a ward of the state with YOUR taxpayer dollars.

    So the honky’s game-changing Magic the Gathering card of Super Science!!! will yield…

    …exactly the situation we have today.

    She has brains, the honky does. She’s a memetic marvel.

  667. Makewi says:

    Your dastardly plan will never work nishi. It assumes that those who would today seek abortion would be willing to allow the possibility of their little “mistakes” tracking them down in the future. And that ain’t never going to be allowed to happen.

  668. happyfeet says:

    invitro fertilization in fertility therapy is flipping expensive

  669. Makewi says:

    Plus those people want babies.

  670. happyfeet says:

    I’m just saying if this technology is all under the health care umbrella there’s no way the government’s gonna let this happen.

    They might let you go to Japan and do it.

    But who knows.

    It just depends on what the committee says.

  671. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    see? this why free market capitalism is incompatible with a socon social compact.
    so….free market economics is incompatible with conservatism….and libertarianism is incompatible with conservatism….what else chu got?
    The Big white skyfather doesn’t get to direct technological innovation, sry.
    simply wont happen.

    Unless we have a totalitarian world order, someone will design improved humans somewhere. –Stephen Hawking

    and someone will pay for it.
    and you can’t stop it.
    Bush tried with his bioluddite council……
    Obama sacked those tools and replaced them with real scientists.

    I honestly think when the dust settles all that will be left in the GOP is the socons.

  672. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Andrew…..I ALWAYS win at Magic.
    :)

  673. Mikey NTH says:

    #612 JeffG:

    Religions and ideologies are belief systems, they run on faith, and therefore are not good subjects for empiricism to change the believer’s mind.

    For instance, the old Soviet Union used to talk about ‘scientific socialism’, yet the actual experience of the old Soviet Union is evidence that the policies it placed under the heading of scientific socialism do not work very well. That is empirical evidence. The experience of every nation that has adopted policies similar to those of the old Soviet Union demonstrates that those policies do not work. That is also empirical evidence.

    There is also empirical evidence regarding eugenic policies and what those policies result in. The experiences of Nazi Germany, the old Soviet Union, and Cambodia under the Khemer Rouge are the empirical evidence.

    Yet, there are those who still advocate for these policies after the empirical evidence on those policies is in. The only conclusion is that those who still advocate for those policies are not engaged in empiricism, but instead are engaged in (charitably speaking) an exercise in faith.

    My opinion, of course.

  674. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    and the neo-cons i guess….just because of the overlap.

  675. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Jeff…if we made a Venn diagram would the neo-cons be a subset of the socons or woulf the socons be a subset of the neo-cons?
    hmmmm….its a mystery.

  676. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Andrew…..I ALWAYS win at Magic.

    Stick to what you’re good at.

  677. Bob Reed says:

    Bob Reed you are a teatard AND a bioluddite..
    How many people undergo invitro fertilization in fertility therapy every year?

    Well nishi,
    Insults aside, IVF and fertility treatments are in no way the same as what is proposed by ectogenesis. And far from being a bioluddite, there are serious ethical and philisophical concerns regarding human assembly lines-so to speak. For instance, although you contend that complete genetic manipulation will be a blase everyday occurance within 10 years, can you absolutely guarantee that humans produced in this fashion won’t be flawed in some fashion like clones have sometimes exhibited thusfar?

    Do you have any real concern for the social, ethical, and philisophical ramifications? Or on the individual development of the “hatched” human?

    “…designer babies and germline enhancement also.

    A new race of perfect humans and supermen, eh? And better yet! Gay people can have biological children without any of that messy biological process that “evolution” refined over the millenia. Or, armies “constructed” where no soldiers death would impact anyone else, would need no mourning, and an endless supply with all of the best traits available.

    I’m sorry, but it sounds too much like a sci-fi horror movie, and you’ve only left out the goriest scenes…

  678. Slartibartfast says:

    Griefer madness, indeed. Someone appears to have shorted the griefer’s meds.

  679. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Mikey, you are confused.
    what i am talking about is designer eugenics….where people can enhance their own personal offspring…or perhaps fix a genetic disease.
    I don’t think you and i are talking about the same thing at all.
    You are talking about genocide of random population demes considered to be inferior by the ruling class.
    that isnt eugenics, although the perps may have falsely called it that.

  680. happyfeet says:

    Cheney is pro gay marriage and he’s kinda the proto-neocon I would think.

  681. Makewi says:

    What I see is someone absolutely desperate to bring back the practice of badges of shame who desperately needs to believe that technology will one day replace morality and ethics.

  682. Mikey NTH says:

    #650 SteveG:

    If I understand natural selection correctly, there is no backwards or forwards, there is just best adapted to the current environment in which the organism lives. That is, natural selection is not a linear path, but can go anywhere that natural pressures direct.

  683. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    don’t care Bob….lead, follow, or get out of the way.
    Only the rich will able to afford it anyways…at first.
    there are already anti-cloning laws.
    its just an artificial womb….not SATAN…..and people will buy it.
    the invisible hand of the market lol.

  684. Bob Reed says:

    Obama sacked those tools and replaced them with real scientists.

    Sure nishi,
    That’s why he’s essentially turning NASA into a well funded branch of the NOAA, who’s sole mission will be to use their gravitas to offset the CRU revelations and get the AGW connivance back on track.

    As opposed to, you know, actually doing rocket science and exploration and stuff.

    Real stuff, not sci-fi novel fantasies; because the real stuff is so much more amazing…

  685. Mikey NTH says:

    Let me add to #689:

    Backwards and forwards are value judgments. Natural selection does not operate acording to a value judgment, natural selection is an act of nature, like a tornado is an act of nature. Acts of nature just are acts of nature.

  686. Makewi says:

    Come on Bob, someone who thinks ethics and morals are quaint notions that keep us back want us to change society based on technology that isn’t finalized but which she is super serious is coming and is going to be just and only awesome. What could go wrong?

    If you need a more perfect example of why conservatism as an ideology will never die, all you need to do is look at nishi and her “trust me it’s gonna rock” method of debate.

  687. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “It assumes that those who would today seek abortion would be willing to allow the possibility of their little “mistakes” tracking them down in the future. ”

    if you really believe that Makewi, then by all means seek to prosecute women who contract for abortions.
    its just murder for hire, right?

  688. Andrew the Noisy says:

    A posh on your moral and philosophical qualms, untermensch.

    The honky has evolved beyond them. Inevitability is her deity.

    Which she has access to because one of you fuckwits gave her the keys to the time machine.

    And I still haven’t gotten to watch Shakespeare try to cure his French Pox.

  689. JHo says:

    So, I’m going to the tea party thing near me tomorrow. I found the crowd last year closely identified with classical liberalism. I also find they dislike the closed minded neoleninists that have taken over the Democrat party.

    It’s a good feeling to be among Americans. I’m taking a nice hot coffee and look forward to making new friends. Based on all the polls, we’ll be taking the country back shortly. Good times.

  690. Mikey NTH says:

    I don’t respond to talking telephone poles. The empirical evidence on eugenics is over 65 years old. The empirical evidence on scientific socialism is over 25 years old.

  691. JHo says:

    The part I really liked was the brisk speech about constitutional principles. It’s almost like the thing was written with specific rights in mind! This certainly isn’t the Soviet Union or anything, at least for the time being. But checks and balances work and we all know the mad left is a distinct minority so see ya later, neoleninists. I think its about the ninth time that decrepit old ideology has been tried. It fails every time, did you notice? Silly neoleninists. Get a job.

    This is gonna be great.

  692. Bob Reed says:

    nishi,

    what i am talking about is designer eugenics…”

    a couple of lines later, same nishi:

    You are talking about genocide of random population demes considered to be inferior by the ruling class. that isnt eugenics…”

    The Germans called it eugenics, so did Margaret Sanger. What you so gushingly describe, you call designer eugenics. Eugenics is the selective breeding of humans based on desireable traits. No matter what you “perps” call it…

    I mean, a rose by any other name, and all…

  693. Makewi says:

    No, no Nishi the false binary model of argumentation is yours. As it happens, it is entirely possible to be pro life and not want to stone any filthy harlots.

  694. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    NASA has zip to do with the Presidents Council on Bioethics or ectogenesis….but good coldsleep technology could come out of artificial womb research i think….

    In a contest between socon religious doctrine and the free market, who yah gonna choose?
    My moneys on capitialism.
    Don’t you always argue that a free market creates and jobs and innovation when it is less regulated? Well Manzi does, I argue with him all the time.
    You want to impose socon religious doctrine on what machines americans can make?
    lawl, good luck with that.

  695. JHo says:

    Had the tech existed, Lenin woulda been into eugenics. Neoleninists will yet.

  696. Mikey NTH says:

    #697 wasn’t a response, just an addition to my prior comment that I left out.

    As a very experienced appellate attorney in my office said, ‘There is no good writing, just good re-writing.’

  697. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    bob..the Nazis didnt breed humans…..they killed them.

  698. JHo says:

    Plus coldsleep and trips to Keid A, transhumanists.

  699. bh says:

    I think I have to get my dumb ass on Mikey’s ignore the TTP train.

    What’s a “talking telephone pole” mean, though? I’ve never, until recently, come across that saying.

  700. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Yeah, those efforts to convince good Aryans to breed more perfect aryans?

    The sly encouragement of polygamy among SS officers, especially the Blond-and-Blues?

    The rewards given to German women who stayed barefoot and pregnant?

    Yeah, they didn’t happen.

  701. Bob Reed says:

    don’t care Bob….lead, follow, or get out of the way.

    At least you admit that ethics, social, and philisophical concerns, like, don’t really concern you.

    Only the rich will able to afford it anyways…at first.

    Sounds just like decent medical on par with what we have today after a few years of Obamacare, which, by the way, will no way underwrite ectogenesis.

    there are already anti-cloning laws.
    This doesn’t address my question of the possible inherent problems with ectogenesis, like shorter lifespan and suceptility to illnesses, similar to thise that are exhibited by clones. And taht’s because no one really knows yet…

  702. Mike LaRoche says:

    That’s why he’s essentially turning NASA into a well funded branch of the NOAA…

    An hour ago, Mark Levin was slamming Obama over his trashing of Constellation. Also, Neil Armstrong and other former Apollo astronauts have penned an open letter criticizing this anti-science maneuver by Obama.

  703. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    it is entirely possible to be pro life and not want to stone any filthy harlots.

    but ii is entirely impossible to keep the sneer subtext out of what you just wrote, Makewi.
    That is why people for whom reproductive rights are an issue will never vote conservative.

  704. Slartibartfast says:

    i believe i had a dream last night
    a dream was really clean
    a dream within a dream
    it was a funny little dream

    well the moon was almost lost last night
    it was traded for the king of rain
    and was poured into a coffee cup
    that was made from the hoover dam
    well i won’t make it if you won’t make it
    take these lonesome dreams of makin’ it down

    well the king went out in country, cried:
    i am better than the moon

    The rest is gobbledegookish, much like griefer rantings.

  705. Bob Reed says:

    Good point Makewi.

  706. Makewi says:

    nishi waves the phrase “socon religious doctrines” around like she’s warding off vampires. Which will be totally real in the super awesome transhumanist future. Also, a religious doctrine is a social framework having to do with morality and ethics, where capitalism is a system of economics based on the idea of the free markets being more productive and fair than those that are planned. At best socon religious doctrines advises capitalism that it might be wise to lock up the flim flammers. Which apparently nishi isn’t cool with.

  707. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Yeah, Makewi.

    Be nicer, you fucking racist. GOD!!

  708. Makewi says:

    I’m going to get 2 more arms to make my WoW playing that much better. Try and stop me bioluddites!

  709. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    like shorter lifespan and suceptility to illnesses

    in animal testing of animal clones….however the Japanese have doing full term animal ectogenesis for 10 years and have seen no deleterious effects.
    Only a truly ignorant person would think there was a correlation between cloning and ectogengenesis.
    The genetic material is completely different.

  710. SDN says:

    Mikey #689: Exactly.

    One thing you should remember, Honor, is that evolution always wins in the end, but it does it by conserving the designs that happen to be able to survive, not by going out and deliberately creating leaps forward. In fact, I’ve always disliked using the word ‘forward’ in terms of evolution at all. We assign an arbitrary valuation to the changes we consider positive and call those ‘leaps forward,’ but nature doesn’t care about that, except in the statistical sense that more individuals with Mutation A survive than those with Mutation B or C. In many circumstances, however, the enhanced aggressiveness we see as a destructive side effect could be a positive survival trait. In a high-tech society, with high-tech weaponry, and surrounded by vast numbers of people who didn’t share that aggressiveness—and who were seen as inferior by many who did—it had . . . negative implications, let us say. Under other circumstances, like a colony on a world with serious external threats against which it could be focused, it might mean the difference between survival and extinction.

    Ashes of Victory, David Weber

  711. Makewi says:

    My bad. Please replace “filthy harlots” with “uterian enslavement rebellers”. You are witnesses to my shaming.

  712. Mike LaRoche says:

    Only a truly ignorant person would think there was a correlation between cloning and ectogengenesis.

    And only a truly ignorant person would think relegating America to a third-rate spacefaring nation is proof of Obama’s intellectual prowess.

  713. Andrew the Noisy says:

    The Machine is Inevitable. Bow before it, meatsacks!

  714. bh says:

    “Talking telephone pole”? Anyone?

  715. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    At best socon religious doctrines advises capitalism that it might be wise to lock up the flim flammers.

    oh, no…Bob is saying we shouldn’t go there.
    I don’t think the American worker is going to be wildly excited about socons telling us we can’t build those SATAN wombs in American factories because….because….they aren’t godlike….or they are UNNATURAL.
    I think your “social compact” would become very unpopular.

  716. Slartibartfast says:

    If we can only find the coin-return button.

    JANE! STOP THIS CRAZY THING!

  717. SDN says:

    Well, Makwei, if you go around locking up the flim-flammers, Nishi might be at the head of the line.

  718. Bob Reed says:

    Nishi,
    You missed my entire point about your gush about Obama restoring “science” and his neutering of NASA.

    And you’re trying to be too cute by half in the Naxi revisionism. Not only did they kill, but tried to create a society of pure Aryans by birth as well.

    And it never ceases to amaze me that in all of your “future viewing”, and geneticist palaver, you never admit that the ESC research argument has been rendered moot by the research that has proven that skin cells can be converted to pleni-potentiary stem cells.

    I wonder why, with all your aplomb, audacity, and metaphysical certitude, you would be scared of the truth?

  719. Bob Reed says:

    I’ll be back later: I’ve got Chicken Marsala to make…

    Until then,
    Best WIshes to all.

  720. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Andrew, please don’t be dumb.
    Time travel into the past is impossible because of closedform timecurves.

  721. happyfeet says:

    and I’m working in tandem with her?

    punch meet judy

  722. Mike LaRoche says:

    Obama: America’s most anti-science president ever.

  723. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Yeah, the American worker, he wants nothing more than for labor to become cheaper. He’s ready to build the Epsilon factories…

  724. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    NASA has nothing to do with this discussion.
    We are talking about bioethics and ectogenesis.
    we can talk about nasa another time if you like.

    I think it is kindof important, Jeff, that you understand that the epistemic closure conservatism is undergoing is antipathic to both libertarianism and the free market.
    If your coalition falls apart, all that will be left in the GOP are socons and neocons…..the libertarians and free traders will leave.

  725. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Andrew, please don’t be dumb.
    Time travel into the past is impossible because of closedform timecurves.

    That’s interesting, honky.

    Because I wouldn’t be so sure on predicting the future unless I had seen it, or was ready to make some educated guesses based on a thorough knowledge of history, which, based on your Nazi fail, you don’t have.

    So maybe the whole world isn’t ready to leap headlong into Huxley’s nightmare?

    Maybe it’s just you and the D&D party in the basement?

  726. Bob Reed says:

    however the Japanese have doing full term animal ectogenesis for 10 years and have seen no deleterious effects.

    None noticed to date, and limited experience…In animals…Not Humans…

    Only a truly ignorant person would think there was a correlation between cloning and ectogengenesis.”

    Again, insult aside, the fact that they are both artificial processes and the side effects unknown the application of these measures to humans is irresponsible and immoral-because you just don’t know. And experimentation on humans is immoral without consent. Unless the diploid oocytes give you permission…

  727. Makewi says:

    Nishi, this society has done well when the “lets get going already, damn the consequences” crowd is well tempered by the “hold on a minute have you considered the consequences” crowd. We do well to have both.

  728. Mike LaRoche says:

    NASA has nothing to do with this discussion.

    The griefer deflects and evades. Typical.

  729. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    you never admit that

    because that isnt true.
    eSCR and aSCR are complementary, not competitive.
    aSCR is superior for organ replacement, eSCR for disease modelling and anti-scenesce research.
    even the pluri-potent aSCR cell lines have insufficent telomere length for anti-aging research.

  730. happyfeet says:

    It’s sort of silly to imagine you’ll find all that many neo-cons in the America what you will find in Barack Obama’s wake.

    The whole concept will be ridiculous.

  731. Bob Reed says:

    NASA has nothing to do with this discussion.

    Nishi,
    Are you telling us to stay on topic?

    We’re talking about Obama’s dedication to SCIENCE!

  732. Makewi says:

    In my experience libertarians are just as upset with the government telling them what they can do when the source is progressive as when the source is conservative.

  733. bh says:

    So no one knows what a “talking telephone pole” means?

  734. Lazarus Long says:

    “Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/14 @ 2:19 pm #

    Actually, we made corn. Also edible almonds. And a few dozen other things that, without human influence, simply would not exist in any recognizable form.”

    GENETICALLY ALTERED FUDD!!!!!!!

    ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

  735. Lazarus Long says:

    “Comment by Nishi the Kingslayer on 4/14 @ 5:07 pm #

    bob..the Nazis didnt breed humans…..they killed them.”

    You know nothing about anything, you fascist twat.

  736. Lazarus Long says:

    “evolution always wins in the end, but it does it by conserving the designs that happen to be able to survive”

    Evolution as a conservative principle.

    The fascist twat’s head just exploded.

  737. bh says:

    Okay. It’s either a made up saying or it actually means bh sucks and no one wants to break it to me.

  738. serr8d says:

    eSCR and aSCR are complementary, not competitive.
    aSCR is superior for organ replacement, eSCR for disease modelling and anti-scenesce research.
    even the pluri-potent aSCR cell lines have insufficent telomere length for anti-aging research.

    None of those lines of research will give up enough technological advances that will prolong your life any more than you’ve been allotted; and if Obama and his team have their way, the genetic sciences will follow the space sciences to second- and third-rate status, just as he’s leading this entire nation to second- and third-rate statuses across the board. America can’t afford to pay to stay on the cutting edge of any science, because we’ve the Social Democrat’s voters to assuage with hefty entitlements.

    You were better off under Bush than Obama, Nishneotene.

  739. Lazarus Long says:

    Talking telephone pole:

    There was another enormously ignorant troll on the blog a while ago, sort of on par with nishit the idiot, who after making an enormously stupid/ignorant/laughably stupid & ignorant posting would be refuted, destroyed actually, but it never stopped it.

    Someone got fed up and said it was like conversing with a talking telephone pole.

  740. bh says:

    Thanks, Laz. Much appreciated.

    I had myself half convinced it was a vulgarity too obscene to even define in public.

  741. Ric Locke says:

    bh, the “talking telephone pole” phrase was coined by one person I believe no longer frequents the joint about another. The poster it was aimed at used “alphie” as a cognomen, among others, and his outstanding characteristic was a total refusal (inability?) to address a response to any of his proposals. Refute him with chapter, verse, personal experience, and the Laws of Thermodynamics, and he would ignore it and propose something else. That is, any counter-argument might as well be addressed to a telephone pole, except that the telephone pole had the power of speech and would go off on another subject.

    The application to Kate (“nishi”) should be fairly clear. It isn’t actually correct — Kate does respond to counter-argument, it’s just that she doesn’t respond to the content thereof. Like a lot of Leftoids, she has a stereotypical construct lodged between her perceptual systems and her processing facilities; things she hears or reads trigger a response from the construct and she responds to that — she doesn’t respond to the actual argument because it is blocked by the stereotype and never reaches her thinking processes. She’s also a bit of a monomaniac. She works for a second-tier IVF lab in Southern California, in what capacity isn’t at all clear, and tends to see everything in terms that relate to her work. It’s not that all she has is a hammer; it’s that the hammer is her preferred tool, and she finds ways to justify using it for everything from driving screws to tuning a radio.

    Regards,
    Ric

  742. Mikey NTH says:

    #706 bh:

    IIRC, ‘talking telephone pole’ was something LTC John (then MAJ John) came up with to describe commenters that transmit things, but don’t really have the ability to carry on a discussion themselves. Imagine a telephone pole that can broadcast the conversations the lines fastened to it carry, but can not/will not/do not respond to your questions or comments.

  743. Mike LaRoche says:

    Thanks, Lazarus and Ric. I was wondering about the definition of “talking telephone pole” myself.

    By the way, is there a right-of-center blog that alphie hasn’t trolled?

  744. bh says:

    My thanks to you too, Ric.

    Great to have you back in the comments, btw.

  745. bh says:

    Thanks to you as well, Mikey.

    I’m going to follow your advice to starve the griefer/TTP now, btw. I have a thumbtack by my keyboard for negative reinforcement shall I fail.

  746. Mikey NTH says:

    #749 Ric:

    You are correct about the identity of the commenter. I just did not want to raise ‘ghosts’ in my description of a TTP.

    In my view a TTP is anyone who continues haring down the same comment path despite evidence to the contrary from other commenters, no matter how much they respond or comment.

  747. Mikey NTH says:

    You’re welcome, bh. Been hanging about this joint for some time – institutional memory, and all of that.

  748. bh says:

    OT, here’s something people might enjoy discussing:

    “Every negative liberty theorist is a positive liberty theorist in disguise and this comes out once they start citing degress of outrage, degrees of harm, degrees of coercion, and the like.”*

    You can find Bryan Caplan’s initial posts to which Cowen is replying over at Econlog. Ctrl-F “Gilded” as that’s in all the titles. I found it to be an interesting topic.

  749. bh says:

    Missed some a couple […] in the blockquote above.

  750. Lazarus Long says:

    Yeah, good to seee you, Ric.

  751. happyfeet says:

    When people are poor, apparently small interventions can be quite crushing and quite coercive.

    Well that’s unfortunate. But the importantest thing in dirty socialist America is that when you say jump to the poor… it triggers a pavlovian response of a renewed sense of entitlement.

  752. Ric Locke says:

    You’re welcome, all.

    Mike: I greatly fear that you have fallen into the Leftoid trap of “if the Government doesn’t do it, it isn’t real.” The programs that have been canceled were reinvent-the-wheel boondoggles designed purely to keep NASA and a few big contractors sucking the taxpayers’ teat; the specific vehicle (“Constellation”) was badly conceived, and every time they slapped a patch on the design to make up for the original deficiencies plus the previous patches it went further behind schedule and over budget. We are better off without it. The one bit (“Ares”) worth the match to burn the budget papers has been repurposed and may be saved. Consult Rand Simberg and some of the material he references and links for further details.

    Astronauts, unfortunately, are Government employees, no better and no worse than any other GS-14 administrator. Eric Frank Russell’s novella “A Study in Still Life” applies — I can’t find it on the Web, but it’s been collected in numerous anthologies.

    In hindsight, Mercury/Apollo/Gemini were disasters, not triumphs. The “space program”, so called, was a PR stunt designed to impress the Russians and the world with American prowess, and it cut corners wherever possible to achieve the goal. This resulted in literally nothing left behind — no space station, no reusable infrastructure, no Moon base, nothing; everything but the crew capsule was a beer can, to be discarded when empty. In the process it raided much more long-term projects for funding and engineers, resulting in their abandonment. My own pet peeves there are Dyna-Soar (space shuttles! in 1966! but with USAF on the side), the X-15 program (tiles? we don’t need no steenking jigsaw puzzles in space), and something called Project Pluto that you have to Google to believe. It also turned what had been an extremely useful research agency (NACA, the National Advisory Committee on Aviation) into a top-heavy, hidebound, self-unregulated bureaucracy indistinguishable in any but the brightest of Klieg lights and the highest possible magnification from, say, EPA.

    Obama’s reasons may be misguided, but the result is useful. If there is a future for the US in space, it’s via private companies. NASA has long reached the point where its only real purpose is to keep itself and its administrators sucking blood from the public; the fact that that allows pork-barrelling Congresscritters to brag that they’ve brought home the bacon to their Districts is all that keeps it alive.

    Regards,
    Ric

  753. Makewi says:

    It seems that Caplan is using a definition of libertarian that weighs taxes and its relation to economic freedom on a bigger scale than other areas are given. Tends to slant the thinking a bit.

  754. happyfeet says:

    If I were honest I would tell you that NASA was co-branded with Texas in my heart to where I felt kind of defensive about it.

  755. Ric Locke says:

    happy,

    Yup. And that was planned, with malice aforethought, by Lyndon Baines Johnson and Sam Rayburn, who would be pleased to know that their ploy succeeded.

    Regards,
    Ric

  756. happyfeet says:

    I think I more meant “protective of it” really.

  757. newrouter says:

    If there is a future for the US in space, it’s via private companies.

    and when they are successful the gov’t will nationalize. the obama way™

  758. happyfeet says:

    I’m very shallow like that.

    We used to go a lot when we were kids to the Johnson Space Center thing. They have moon rocks there and a cafeteria. Somewhere packed there should be a little shot glass with a space shuttle on it and also commemorative coins and those postage stamp things where they put a stamp on an envelope and sell it to you and shirts but not a hoodie cause the hoodie was expensive.

  759. bh says:

    Project Pluto involved “nuclear powered ramjet engines” apparently. Wow. Thank you, Google.

    I thought that as well, Makewi. Still, I found it an interesting argument as it highlighted the greater economic freedom of that earlier time.

  760. SteveG says:

    I realize “backward” can be a value judgement… just ask any racist teabagging hillbilly.
    Value judgements are integral to any gene replicator… otherwise I’d mate with nishi.

  761. bh says:

    Reading more, Project Pluto was really about nuclear powered cruise missiles being used like unmanned space submarines. Wow x2.

  762. Makewi says:

    All your tweets are bronzed by mama LOC. I’m not sure if this is pure distilled awesome or if it is a sure sign of the end of days.

    Perez Hilton’s deepest thoughts about Lindsey Lohan will make our ancestors invent a time machine just so that they can come back to murder us.

  763. Ric Locke says:

    Makewi,

    I’m aware of EconLog and the bloggers/thinkers in and around it. I just don’t go there because I can’t take them seriously. I consider myself in some sense “libertarian”, but I regard libertarian principles much like I do Newtonian ones — useful as all Hell for ordinary work, but when it’s time for the heavy lifting you need something more, um, nuanced.

    Libertarians shoot themselves in the foot by arguing a contradiction. The Rights the Founders sought to guarantee are the ones I’d like to strangle somebody for christening “negative”. To a very close approximation, they are the things a person alone in a forest could do, and the really basic ones (speech at the head of that list) are things a person can’t be stopped from doing — although he/she can be punished after the fact for it, which may deter exercising them. That is, “rights” can be exercised so long as nobody interferes with that exercise. Those are the rights the Constitution was intended to secure.

    So-called “positive rights” require that somebody actively intervene to secure them. A “right to food” doesn’t exist unless somebody gathers food and makes it available to the right-holder without his or her effort. (In practice, the gathering and providing parts get separated — the provider has to take it away from the gatherer in order to deliver it to the person having the “right”.)

    Libertarians assert that private property is a right. Unfortunately private property beyond the immediately personal requires that somebody intervene to defend it. Private property is a “positive” right, and if that one is valid there is no defense against arguments in favor of any others. The whole modern libertarian stance is thus self-contradictory, which is why it gets no traction when argued.

    Regards,
    Ric

  764. happyfeet says:

    I wish you could come back and stay

  765. JHo says:

    NASA has long reached the point where its only real purpose is to keep itself and its administrators sucking blood from the public; the fact that that allows pork-barrelling Congresscritters to brag that they’ve brought home the bacon to their Districts is all that keeps it alive.

    I see you’ve found their information and subscribed to their newsletters, Ric. This is so true.

  766. Bob Reed says:

    Ric,
    Nice to read you again, it’s been a long time; my own fault completely. I hope that all is well.

    This is a rare occasion when I find myself disagreeing with you. While you are correct about some of the waste at NASA, currently as well as along the way, and that space travel will only become truly economical, and therfore more efficient, when it is the purview of private industry alone, this is still many years out, and I really feel strongly that the Government needs to be involved in the meantime.

    Perhaps I’m too close to the frame to really see the big picture. And I am fully aware that aviation didn’t really take off (no pun intended-really) and realize rapid development until the government got out of the way-so to speak, the government still purchased large numbers of aircraft, and let mail contracts, and NACA, which you mentioned, engaged in cutting edge research to further aeronautics in ways that private industry could not necessarily afford at the time. There may be enough launch business for private launch companies to eke out a living engaging in-but maybe not with the Japanese, European Union, and Indian governments competeing for every but of business they can in order to help defray the costs of their programs and build experience; not to mention the Russians and the Chinese.

    And then there is the moon. Clearly private concerns will not be able to mount missions to there nor the accompanying installations for a very long, long, time. Also, the moon is an ideal shakedown environment for Mars installations, since the environment is more challenging.

    I personally don’t want to cede the highest, high ground to the Chinese, Indians, Russians, and Europeans. Nor do I want us as a nation to stop benefitting from the throw-off technologies that the research realizes. These are the reasons that I believe NASA has to stay in the manned space flight “business”, not to mention travelling to Mars.

    NASA needs to get out of the business of affirming the AGW connivance, as well as the earth science and analysis services it provides, a la LANDSAT, these can be provided, and profitted from, by private industry. They also need to relax some of their more unreasonable statistical saftey factors that have been imposed on space vehicles since the shuttle disasters. Also, they could spur new aerospace companies by issuing spec and having contractors bid instead of the incestuous brainstorm-to-drawingboard-to-hangar process that goes on now. And they need to forget about that worthless ISS boondoggle, which although we maintain, is in a more favorable orbit for the Japanese and Russians.

    NASA needs to get leaner and meaner, so to speak, and stay focused on manned space flight. They need to do research to facilitate the rise of a private space industry, like NACA did for aviation, and not be involved with earth sciences nor AGW validation nor even satellite operations anymore.

    I hate to disagree with you Bro, but it’s more a question of degree than total disagreement.

    But the reality is that NASA will be the first to go, if necessary, so that wealth can be redistributed to the Democrat’s pet constituencies…

    Because of the fairness !

    All the best to you and yours Ric.

  767. bh says:

    I just go there for the econ topics myself. Same with Marginal Revolution for that matter.

  768. bh says:

    Oh, intervening comments. The above at #775 was in regards to Ric’s thoughts on the political view at Econlog.

  769. Ric Locke says:

    Huh. Been peripherally around NASA for a quarter century, JHo.

    Don’t get me wrong. NASA is full of real people doing real work, creating stuff that’s at least interesting and often highly useful. They serve the same purpose as co-located day care centers with IRS offices — you can’t just nuke ’em from orbit because of the unbearable collateral damage.

    Happyfeet, there is at least some hope.

    Regards,
    Ric

  770. Mikey NTH says:

    #768 SteveG:

    You betcha. Backwards or forwards with regard to natural selection is a value judgment and has little to do with natural selection. Eugenics, however, is a breeding program to remove certain traits from the subject species and/or enhance certain traits. And by being a selective breeding program eugenics involves judgment regarding what is to be valued.

    Hence, eugenics is not natural selection and has little to do with Charles Darwin’s original work and has more to do with animal husbandry, with humans being the livestock. And all of that involves a value judgment, and that brings ethics, morality, justice and everything else like it into the mix.

    Nature is just nature; but otherwise it is directed breeding, and what the direction of the breeding program is brings everything else in. It has to.

  771. Bob Reed says:

    Full disclosure:
    Although I was Navy all the way, I entertained the private fantasy of moving to NASA and flying really high and fast; until changes in my vision grounded me, ending both my Flying days as well as the fantasy of being an astronaut. That and I am in the 98th percentile of humans with respect to physical size, which was prohibitively large until very recently.

    We had some crossover dealing with NASA while I was at Navy missile systems, mostly in terms of cutting edge heat shield materials we had developed that they were interested in.

    But, I have no romantic attachment to NASA. Those are just my humble opinions, in part driven by many years of being privy to the ongoing discussions, both at DOD and NASA, of private vs public development.

  772. Mikey NTH says:

    A thoroughbred race horse is an example of animal husbandry gone to extremes – why does a healthy young horse break a leg running on a smooth field/track – what that horse is bred for? Why would any one risk something like that with breeding a human?

  773. Andrew the Noisy says:

    Ric,

    My most recent post in the pub is along similar lines. I reduce it to an isocolon:
    Free Speech is a right; Free Health Care is a benefice.

  774. Bob Reed says:

    Private property is a “positive” right…”

    Gee Ric,
    I never really considered it like that; it’s very thought provoking. I always thought that when the founders discussed the right to private property, they were talking about both material things and ideological beliefs; that religious belief as well as personal opinion was as much private property as others.

    But you may be correct, because they explicitly mention freedom of religion and speech, but only talk abstractly about property. Maybe that’s so there would be no confusion between the arbitrary right to have some property as opposed to the right to property you own.

    Intersting as always

  775. JHo says:

    Can NASA deliver a financial ROI?

  776. Bob Reed says:

    Maybe not directly JHo, but indirectly through the benefit of private businesses that use the technology they research and develop…

    Although, there are some materials on the moon that are pretty darn valuable; as well s helium 3 for energy generation purposes.

  777. happyfeet says:

    that’s good to hear…

    I don’t think it can be repeated enough that NASA needs to get out of the climate change fraud business… but it’s a useful badge of untrustworthyness what maybe shouldn’t be removed prematurely.

  778. Slartibartfast says:

    Obama’s reasons may be misguided, but the result is useful. If there is a future for the US in space, it’s via private companies. NASA has long reached the point where its only real purpose is to keep itself and its administrators sucking blood from the public; the fact that that allows pork-barrelling Congresscritters to brag that they’ve brought home the bacon to their Districts is all that keeps it alive.

    Agree or disagree, this (as well as what preceded it, and what followed) stands in stark contrast to the mumblings of an addled griefer. I mean, look! An actual argument, pieced together, so we don’t have to guess!

    When I was little, I wanted to work for NASA. But that was back when NASA had a slightly grander scope than pencil-pushing and box-checking.

    Bonus factoid: one of my high school classmates is married to one of the STS-131 astronauts. Not that that’s utterly cool, but she has some really great pictures.

    I used to jokingly call myself a rocket scientist, because I did trade studies and modeling for, basically, spaced-based interceptor concepts. It kept me dreaming, but that life never led to much. Although I had a leetle, tiny role in this.

    Good times.

  779. Ric Locke says:

    Andrew (#781): Very useful, but I wonder how many people know what “benefice” means in that context? It ain’t ‘zackly common vocaballary, y’know.

    Mikey (#780): Eugenics is attractive to the likes of Kate for the same reason it was to the original Progressives — it offers what looks like a mechanism for making Socialism work.

    Socialism doesn’t work because the social aspects of human beings, like those of all mammals and reptiles, are secondary. We are primarily competitive beings. What the eugenicists hope to accomplish is to eliminate that. Do you see the contradiction? Right at the top, there will be competition to create the very best New Soviet Man! And what they’ll come up with will be to what they intend like Sgt. Taura[*] is to soldiering. In any case, I don’t reckon a race of mammalian ants is any more likely to get to the stars than the insectoid ones are.

    Bob (#779): I do hear you. At roughly the same point in my career, I wanted to work for NASA and build all that cool stuff. But please note that they were coming to you for heat shield technology, not the other way ’round!

    Regards,
    Ric
    [*]Lois McMaster Bujold, Labyrinth (novella, 2004)

  780. newrouter says:

    the new soviet man wears polyester suits

  781. Ric Locke says:

    newrouter (#788): It isn’t clear what that particular snark was intended to say. Unpack, please?

    Regards,
    Ric

  782. happyfeet says:

    he’s just saying that the new soviet man wears polyester suits I think…

    I’m pretty sure of it really.

  783. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Ahhh, not quite, Ric Locke.
    let me clear up a few misconceptions.
    I’m very into SBH (social brain hypothesis) lately. there is a biological basis for all behavior, don’tcha kno?
    The current evolutionary theory NOW is that social aspects of homo sapiens sapiens are actually PRIMARY and caused the grey matter explosion and the development of language in our evolutionary history.
    It is really quite elegant.
    A couple more misperceptions…..evolution is parsimonious, not conservative.
    Spamming vast quantities of guess-and -test randomized copies into the environment is hardly “conservative” as I understand it.

    Dr. Pournelle also advises the privatization of space travel. I quite dig that.
    And once again, eugenics is not evil….you practice eugenics when you look for a breeding partner….everyone does.
    The Nazis were not eugenicists…..they were genocidaires.

    Or put it this way….the Nazis used the term “eugenics” exactly like Jeff uses “classic liberal”.

  784. newrouter says:

    newrouter (#788): It isn’t clear what that particular snark was intended to say. Unpack, please?

    Regards,
    Ric

    baracky=equalization=losergov’t

    baracky=evil

  785. happyfeet says:

    my bad

  786. newrouter says:

    eugenics is not evil

    sanger hates the black people abort black babies says maggie sanger. you go progg.

  787. bh says:

    Heh, I’ll admit that I googled both benefice and isocolon.

  788. JD says:

    RIC !!!

    Ric coming back after that genocidal eugenecist assplosion above is a great change of pace.

    Barcky hates him some science, yes he does. And nishit still kneels in front of him begging.

  789. SteveG says:

    If forced to breed with nishi, what part of natural selection would make the eyes want to close?

    Maybe she should breed with Obama… the world surely needs more tedious windbags

  790. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    So far Obama has performed just fine…..he promised to fund eSCR, stop torture and pass HCR.
    He’s 3 for 3. :)
    He kicked the bioluddite- biblethumpers off the Council without even a days notice.
    As far as I’m concerned, he rules.

    What did you get from your guys?
    Oh yeah…..I remember.

  791. JD says:

    I lurv how nishit claims to be all sciencey yet is an AGW hysteric.

    I paid my taxes so you can eat today, nishit. A thank you would be nice.

  792. happyfeet says:

    you trickered me into watching waterloo you tricker

  793. JD says:

    Did the Nazi eugenecist that advocates for genocide every explain why her oh-so-very not racisty self thought the muggers were minorities?

  794. happyfeet says:

    I have to pay my taxes tomorrow. Which means I have to transfer money out of what was savings. Now it’s not savings anymore.

    It’s his now.

  795. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    oh yeah…..any sign of those Palin pins yet?
    I guess they must have been quantum Palin pins and phased out of superposition after the attack.

  796. JD says:

    It will be used to pay for nishit’s meds, happyfeet. And other such nonsense. What it will not be used for is anything useful.

  797. SDN says:

    Guys, when I went to the “100th Birthday of Robert Heinlein” convention in 2007, one of the panels was on private space industry. One of the panelists mentioned that that year was the first time NASA had been able to submit a normal RFP for nextgen spacecraft development because there were enough companies in existence to meet the criteria. Up until then, there hadn’t been enough for open competition. There’s more going on in the private sector than gets covered.

  798. JD says:

    Any sign of minorities doing the mugging? Or was it just an accidental slip of your racisty mask, like when your buddy, Sen Grand Kleagle Byrd called people white n*ggers. A slip, that shows your true colors. That, and your desire to cleanse the earth of the undesirables, you sick twist.

  799. happyfeet says:

    how many monies are actually paid in April?

    probably a lot, huh?

    You’d think people would notice more.

  800. Lazarus Long says:

    “The Nazis were not eugenicists…”

    The depths of your ignorance are abysmal, you fascist twat.

  801. Lazarus Long says:

    “So far Obama has performed just fine…..”

    Holy fuck, just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse………

  802. JD says:

    happyfeet – April cannot be a good month from the private sector, since a goodly portion of the population are writing checks to fund BarckyCare and his corrupt stimulus package.

  803. SBP says:

    I’m still looking forward to my Little Miss Nishi cloned sex slave, genetically programmed to be docile and horny.

    Also mute, better looking, and trained in proper personal hygiene (the last may require Skinnerian conditioning rather than genetic manipulation, but hey, whatever works. It’s just meat, right?)

  804. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    and your desire to cleanse the earth of the undesirables

    ….awww you caught me.
    I DO want to cleanse the earth of undesirables!
    but you muffed the definition of undesirables…..i just want the earth clean of teatards.
    Hopefully the Rapture will scrape you off real soon.

  805. happyfeet says:

    you gotta figure, huh?

    And all those people what just learned the details about the tax changes expected next year.

  806. SBP says:

    Oh, forgot sterile. I wouldn’t want there to be any chance of offspring. Nope, it’d just be for funsies.

    If the nesting instinct could be ramped up so it’d take care of the housework, too, that’d be a big plus.

    And hey, it’d WANT to do all that stuff. It’d be PROGRAMMED.

  807. happyfeet says:

    I didn’t like this at first but I keep hitting replay.

  808. happyfeet says:

    nishi you can’t cleanse cause evolution requires competition

  809. JD says:

    Gotta love it when the genocidal lunatic and avowed eugenecist comes out and admits that she really just wants to cleanse the earth of those that disagree with her sci-fi fantasy politics.

  810. JD says:

    Happyfeet – Nishi cannot cleanse because she does not have the balls to do so. She is praying that someone else will do it for her.

    Our taxes were Teh Suck this year, and will get worse once the Bush tax cuts are not re-upped and the Barcky tax increases and penalties are implemented.

  811. Bob Reed says:

    Hopefully the Rapture will scrape you off real soon.

    God willing nishi. Don’t tell me you want to be among thise left behind?

  812. LBascom says:

    Great to see a post from Ric! WB.

    Now I must make some corrections. I believe TTP was originated by Maj John, in an attempt to get people to think before encouraging actus.

    At least that’s how I remember it.

  813. LBascom says:

    A comment, not a post I meant…

  814. JD says:

    The only way nishit could cleanse anyone is if Magic cards are lethal in meatspace. Or, maybe she could throw a D&D dice and poke an eye out.

  815. Jeff G. says:

    Or put it this way….the Nazis used the term “eugenics” exactly like Jeff uses “classic liberal”.

    Can someone explain this to me?

    The claim is that the Nazis used “eugenics” but meant “genocide.” So what am I using “classic [sic] liberal” to mask?

  816. Bob Reed says:

    It’s inexplicible blather Jeff G.

  817. Jeff G. says:

    Ah.

  818. Abe Froman says:

    You’re using classical liberalism to mask the stench of Nishi’s vajayjay?

  819. JD says:

    You should know better than to try to understand what that little twat means. She is quite fond of making shit up and attributing it to anyone she encounters.

  820. Ric Locke says:

    Yes, I know about SBH, and think it’s hilariously funny. The “Social Brain Hypothesis” is what you get when you reinterpret “evolutionary psychology” using Leftoid terminology. It’s amusing because the various Progressives have for years been peddling radical egalitarianism — the Interchangeable Humans concept — while making it clear that they didn’t believe a word of it by concentrating on breaking society into easily-manipulated special interest groups, each taught that their particular interest was the global one common to All People and the reason it didn’t succeed was villainy. If humans are interchangeable, it follows that there are no heritable behavioral characteristics, and vice versa. Evolutionary psychology, for all the crackpottedness of many of its proponents and soi-disant “scientists”, assumes that there are heritable behaviors which can be teased out of the mess.

    Now we have what were formerly the radical egalitarians who utterly denounced the very concept of “instinct” changing course to adopt BPH, which assumes a priori that communalism is the basic human societal structure and engages in considerable Jesuitry to “prove” that this is so. In the course of that they’ve had to toss their fundamental assumption out the window — if heritable behaviors exist, it follows that certain inheritance pools (the process does not appear to be facilitated by Watson-Crick “genes”) will differ in behavior. The contortions, rationalizations, and distortions necessary to assert that whilst preserving the idea that successful populations aren’t, well, successful because of behaviors are well worth a Sunday afternoon spent with a bottle of wine and a dictionary. It will renew your faith in human ingenuity, as well as yielding a few hearty guffaws.

    Trying to define “eugenics” so as to exclude Hitler, Goebbels, et. al. from the club is foolishness. They were explicitly eugenicists, and said so at the top of their lungs. You would be better off joining your fellow-thinkers in declaring that the Jews are, after all, the Vilest of the Vile, ultimately leading to the declaration (already current in some quarters) that the Nazis were unfortunately misunderstood heroes cruelly frustrated in their noble pursuit. It at least avoids logical contradictions. A person whose firmly stated and immovable position is that private activities must be closely watched and carefully governed to ensure that they meet their social obligations shouldn’t be using “facist” as an other-people label anyway. Benny’s ghost will be laughing at you almost as hard as I am.

    Regards,
    Ric

  821. Lazarus Long says:

    “You’re using classical liberalism to mask the stench of Nishi’s vajayjay?”

    Wouldn’t a nice scented candle work better?

    Vanilla, maybe?

  822. Ric Locke says:

    Bah. Fingers. “BPH” = “SBH”, “facist” = “fascist”

    Regards,
    Ric

  823. JD says:

    Nishit and her ilk are not soi disant, they are soi pissant. But good on her admitting her desire to engage in a little cleansing.

  824. Jeff G. says:

    I do marvel at times, Ric, how the left is able to turn what are inherent and irreconcilable contradictions in their stated ideologies into something so grand sounding as “epistemic openness.”

    Then again, I knew a kid who had a really bad strawberry-stain birthmark on his face that he made go away by naming it “Scott” and telling everyone it was his brother.

  825. JD says:

    Jeff – As you well know, it is easy for the leftists to do so, since they just make up shit as they go along. As someone once said, they must have blank dictionaries, and get to insert whatever meaning they see fit into their meme of the day.

  826. JD says:

    Kind of like how they can say that BarckyCare is deficit neutral.

  827. happyfeet says:

    this what Drudge linked was heartening somehow… the matter-of-factness I think it is…

    The Estefans may have broken more than a rule when they decided to host a cocktail reception for the president during his visit to South Florida on Thursday. Estefan, along with husband Emilio, also broke a bond that had united them with Miami’s Cuban community, whose members largely oppose the president’s agenda.

    […]

    The announcement that they would host the fundraiser for the president was only hours old when I started hearing friends and relatives talk about throwing away all their Gloria Estefan CDs. Soon bloggers were labeling them as traitors. In one swoop, all the good will they had built with so many followers, all the years of supporting nonpartisan causes such as freedom and human rights, seemed to disappear. In many ways, that’s not fair to the couple, who have done so many good things to help our community.

    Yet the reaction also is a reminder that, like freedom, celebrity can be a two-edged sword, best wielded with careful forethought. The Estefans, like all celebrities, have the right to support a particular candidate, to support a particular cause. Just as it’s their right to support a political party.

    Not supporting the Estefans in their effort, well, that’s everyone else’s right.

  828. JD says:

    Jeff’s last comment reminds me of a comment Ric made a while back, about vegetarians reclassifying beef as a vegetable so they could eat cheeseburgers, or something to that effect.

  829. Mike LaRoche says:

    Mike: I greatly fear that you have fallen into the Leftoid trap of “if the Government doesn’t do it, it isn’t real.”

    Hi, Ric. Nice to see you commenting here again.

    As for your comment, it’s not that I think having the government behind the space program makes it any more real, it’s that I’m not sure that private industry is ready to pick up the slack at this point, but it is making progress for sure. The biggest issue I have with the cancellation of Constellation is that for the near future we will have no way pf providing our own transportation up to the space station nor will we have the capability of manually repairing satellites – two of the most essential features of the shuttle program.

    Otherwise, I absolutely agree that more privatization is needed. But I’m not sure that what Obama did is going to be necessarily helpful in realizing that transformation.

  830. Mike LaRoche says:

    …awww you caught me.
    I DO want to cleanse the earth of undesirables!
    but you muffed the definition of undesirables…..i just want the earth clean of teatards.
    Hopefully the Rapture will scrape you off real soon.

    Let’s see…eugenics and religious bigotry. Yep, nishi sure is a paragon of liberal tolerance.

  831. JD says:

    Don’t forget her overt racism, Mike.

    Sorry about the upcoming football season without the mad scientist genius.

  832. Mike LaRoche says:

    True, JD. Nishi still hasn’t explained her justification for claiming that the New Orleans muggers were black.

    Yeah, things aren’t going to be the same in Red Raiderland without Leach. But I think Tuberville will do fine if he can get the quarterback situation straightened out.

  833. JD says:

    I would rather have Leach. Relying on tubers is never optimal.

  834. Mike LaRoche says:

    He’ll definitely have to work hard to overcome the damage he suffered from that disastrous final season at Auburn.

  835. Ric Locke says:

    I do marvel at times, Ric, how the left is able to turn what are inherent and irreconcilable contradictions in their stated ideologies into something so grand sounding as “epistemic openness.”

    Well, yeah, that’s remarkable. But what’s more remarkable is that they get away with it.

    For myself, I think the only possible remaining response is to guffaw and jeer. It’s the world’s longest-running comedy routine, and the only sad thing is that so many people take it seriously enough to offer insults in return.

    Regards,
    Ric

  836. Jeff G. says:

    Where’d I hear this before?

    [..] The process by which this bill was passed didn’t just feature corruption and violate traditional ethics. It revealed a president and a congressional leadership that in concert have shown more callous contempt than any in history for the will of the American people, the safeguards against the tyranny of the majority built into the Constitution, and the parliamentary rules by which Congress operates. And there’s every indication that, if need be, the same will be true of cap and trade, immigration reform, or whatever else Obama, Pelosi, and Reid may deem the next morsel they plan to cram down the recalcitrant throat of the American public.

    It is this stench of tyranny on the part of Congress that is very new and very noticeable, even to ordinary Americans who usually don’t pay a particle of attention to the arcane rules of the House and Senate

    Won’t these people just sit back and let evolution take it’s course?

    Epistemic closurers sure are fucking up a nice progressive great leap forward…

  837. Ric Locke says:

    Look on the bright side.

    Justice Stevens is retiring. The correct strategy at this point would be for the Republicans to stall — to see to it that nothing whatever gets done for the rest of this Congressional session. The way to do that is to super-Bork whoever Obama appoints.

    There isn’t anywhere in the Constitution that says how many Justices there have to be. We can do with only eight justices for a while. Ties can be solved Frank J style — give the lead lawyer on each side a .50 caliber antique cap-and-ball pistol and let them shoot it out, preferably on the Oval. Sell the TV rights by auction.

    Regards,
    Ric

  838. geoffb says:

    all the years of supporting nonpartisan causes such as freedom and human rights, seemed to disappear

    Because in one fell swoop they revealed that they don’t actually believe any of that “freedom and human rights” crap. It was just a useful pony for a while, but now they have a shiny unicorn. The pony gets to be new glue.

  839. FYI says:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/golefttv#p/u/0/j5aS8k4f3k8

    According to the Southern Poverty Law Center who monitors the activities of extremist hate groups, the Tea Party is helping to strengthen the white supremacist movement in America, and has helped to re-energize some specific hate groups that were on the verge of extinction

  840. sdferr says:

    They’re going to come and get you don’t you know. The evil ones. Just for your information. But for your personal safety, I’d recommend departure for points unknown. Ooga-booga!

  841. geoffb says:

    Go Left TV, Whee! Thanks.

    For
    Your
    Insanity

  842. dicentra says:

    The best part about the SPLC is that they provide their own infinite job security by making sure the South is always poor.

  843. SBP says:

    According to the Southern Poverty Law Center who monitors the activities of extremist hate groups which is a decades-old Stalinist front operation

    Fixed that for you. You’re welcome.

  844. Mike LaRoche says:

    Epistemic closurers sure are fucking up a nice progressive great leap forward…

    Mao Tse-tung was teh hawt.

  845. Patrick Chester says:

    Nishi blathered:
    …awww you caught me.
    I DO want to cleanse the earth of undesirables!
    but you muffed the definition of undesirables…..i just want the earth clean of teatards.
    Hopefully the Rapture will scrape you off real soon.

    What’s truly sad about nishi is she thinks a “different” definition of undesirables makes her wishes okay. Okay, there are probably a lot of things “truly sad” about nishi but this one is just her latest gem of utterly clueless evil.

    Other comment:
    Gotta love it when the genocidal lunatic and avowed eugenecist comes out and admits that she really just wants to cleanse the earth of those that disagree with her sci-fi fantasy politics.

    Is her last name “Detweiler”?

  846. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    Well…..OUTLAW and Party of NO are the same thing really….refusal to participate in the democratic process gets you squat.
    you will just be shut out of shaping policy like you were during HCR.

    heres a couple comments from Conor’s thread at TAS.

    The fact that AEI dumped Frum who does take government policy seriously and is willing to question GOP dogma and hires JG who spent his time writing a silly book devoted to trashing liberals demonstrates that conservative donors are interested more attacking liberals then addressing economic problems. The result is that rich conservatives will get to read more prose trashing the left while problems like health care and the federal budget deficit will be decided on liberal terms.
    — Mercer · Apr 14, 07:44 PM · #

    i especially liked this one.

    “A lot of this closed-mind talk sounds like tendentious code for why conservatives should change their convictions. By all means, if people believe that this or that conviction should be dropped or altered they should make their case.”
    The point is that we have learned that the free market is not infflaible, that cutting taxes doesn’t increase revenue, that finacial deregulation leads to massive recessions, that gay people are not in the thrall of satan, that calling a country we don’t like “evil” doesn’t do much to change that country, that blind patriotism leads to disaster, that tourture is a bad idea, that accountability was not the soloution to our schools problems…
    These are all conservative ideas (in rough form). We have learned that they don’t work, or are not valid. So, if the conservative movment had an open mind it would acknowledge this and come up with some new ideas. I have seen this happening here and there, and maybe if with more time mourning in the wilderness more will see the need for new ideas, but currently the mainstream conservative movement has retreated into a defesive crouch. The political wing spends all it’s energy trying to sabotage Obama at the country’s detriment becasue they think this is a good political strategy, and the visionary wing is filled with nut jobs pandeing to even bigger nut jobs.
    That is epistemic closure.
    — cw · Apr 15, 01:06 AM · #

  847. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    And yes Ric Locke, I so totally agree.
    There is no fixed number of supremes, and there have been more and less than 9 at times.
    But if you filibuster, there is nothing to stop Obama from raising the number to 11.
    I doubt you can filibuster 3 positions for 6 years….the country only stood for you filibustering civil rights for 57 days.
    In fact…..I totally think you should filibuster.
    :)

  848. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    One more thing….SBH is SCIENCE.
    That is why you hate it and reject it out of hand.
    Social Brain Research
    Please, join us in the 21st century.
    Altho Dr. Carroll says that one cannot make a wrong turn and wind up in the past….somehow you seem to have managed, Ric.

    Jeff, I meant that you use classic liberal when you really mean conservative.
    The Nazis used eugenics when they really meant religious genocide.
    Jew is not a race….it is a religion. Racially, Jews are Semites. So are Arabs.
    :)

  849. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    You know Jeff….your side is only good at tactics.
    No strategy.
    Like when the bourgie conservatives were all happy about Scott Brown, and i was like….so whatcha think is going to happen now?
    An’ I said this just forces the wobblie dems onto the democratic express, and they will pass HCR with reconciliation.
    An’ that is EXACTLY what happened.
    So naow im like…..go for that SCOTUS filibuster….give Obama an excuse to make 2 more positions. He can even get populist support because the polling OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE is 66% against Roberts interpretation.
    Once those positions are filled they are impossible to get rid of.
    Jefferson fought like a scalded against Adams’s Midnight Appointments……they all stood.
    Obama could wind up shaping the court for next half century.
    Go for it!
    hahahahaha

  850. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    pardon, Jefferson fought like a scalded cat against the Federalists.
    lawl.

  851. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    “There isn’t anywhere in the Constitution that says how many Justices there have to be.”

    hahahahaha
    and guess who gets to say how many there are?
    congress.
    So, please filibuster RIGHT AWAY while Obama can use reconciliation to change the number of justices and has a house majority.
    don’t be smart and wait until after the midterms when you will prolly gain seats!
    force his hand!
    hahahaha!

  852. geoffb says:

    Liars lie, it’s all they know.
    Trolling grief, concern.
    It’s all for show.
    Me, Look At Me, I Matter. YO!!!!
    Hammer drops, bye-bye bozo.

  853. B Moe says:

    The Nazis used eugenics when they really meant religious genocide.
    Jew is not a race….it is a religion. Racially, Jews are Semites. So are Arabs.

    That is an awful lot of stupid in one little space, right there.

  854. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    i guess I should unpack what I mean for Jeff….when Jeff says “classic liberal” he really means states-rights conservative, or federalist I guess.
    he is trying to get away from the term conservative which is becoming corrupted through constant assertion by the teatards.
    in truth, the rightside only advocates liberty for within-group members.
    The right is illiberal towards out-group citizens…..blacks, women, gays, hispanics.

    The Nazis coopted the word eugenics when they were really prosecuting a religious pogrom.
    Jews are genetically Semites……like Arabs.
    They did it to make their killing of Jews sound scientific.
    Jeff uses “classic liberal” to make socons sound like they are interested in individual freedom and personal liberty when they aren’t….or at least, only for white christians.
    social conservatism is simply illiberal at its core.

  855. Nishi the Kingslayer says:

    you say im lying…..prove it.
    refute meh…..if you can.

  856. B Moe says:

    So is homosexuality a religion, too? Or gypsy?

    How were the experiments on twins that Mengele favored religiously motivated?

    Go get some sleep, fool.

  857. B Moe says:

    And I don’t think you are lying, I think you really believe all that shit.

    Mores the pity.

  858. Ric Locke says:

    I told happyfeet there was some hope.

    It looks like that hope just went away.

    Bobbe has collapsed. She can’t move much by herself and doesn’t respond. I’m going to have to call 911.

    This is probably goodbye, at least for a while. No need to reply; I’m going to have to turn the computer off, and I won’t see it.

    Regards,
    Ric

  859. geoffb says:

    So sorry Ric. My prayers go for you and yours.

  860. Pablo says:

    Sorry to hear that, Ric.

  861. Bob Reed says:

    God be with you and Bobbe, Ric.

  862. SDN says:

    God be with you and her, Ric.

  863. Bob Reed says:

    Conor Friedersdorf, at TAS..? Really nishi, Conor effin’ Friedersdorf? Why should I give a flying frig about what that pipsqueak has to say about anything?

    And, if I’m unimpressed by him, why should I care what commenters to his site say?

    Or I should view their input with reverence, eh? They possess absolute effin’ moral authority or something…

    putz

  864. Andrew the Noisy says:

    The honky, it is the machine that goes “ping!”

    No matter what you say, it sits on the ground and calls you racist.

    It has no other thought processes, except to mangle the concept of empiricism as buttress to this flimsy assertion.

    It is a Kraftwerk album come to life, except more boring.

  865. Jeff G. says:

    Jeff, I meant that you use classic liberal when you really mean conservative.

    No, I mean classical liberal. Go look it up!

    Also, Hitler thought of the Jews as a race. He even said so. All the time. Go look it up!

    What nishi wants, it finally occurs to me, is for someone to step in and simply discard the Constitution. Declare that it no longer matters. Really shake shit up.

    That Obama has essentially said that he doesn’t much concern himself with all that “old” shit like procedures and such is the signal that gets nishi all hot and bothered.

  866. SBP says:

    I doubt you can filibuster 3 positions for 6 years

    So November is now 6 years away?

    BWAHAHAHA!

  867. JHo says:

    nuggie lives in her very own Draco Tavern.

  868. Mikey NTH says:

    TTPs give the An apologetcs of eugenics is pretty much proof that the writer has lost his or her mind. It is much a part of science as phlogiston.

  869. Silver Whistle says:

    So November is now 6 years away?

    There appears to be a misconception among certain of the Obami that Camelot was going to last forever. From soaring eagle to lame duck in the space of several craptacular bills. Delicious.

  870. Darleen says:

    Comment by Nishi the Kingslayer on 4/15 @ 5:09 am

    In the words of Sean Thornton “That’s a lie.”

    If nothing else, Kate should be seek immediate psychological help. How DOES a body go through life with such an altered view of reality?

  871. B Moe says:

    Nishi is the political version of the know-it-all down at the end of the bar whose favorite teams are the New Orleans Saints, the New York Yankees, and the Los Angeles Lakers. The mistake you make is assuming there is an actual thought process behind her opinions any deeper than how she picks her clothes in the morning.

  872. Bob Reed says:

    Heading toward that brave new world?

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/health/2932888/UK-scientists-create-designer-embryos-with-three-peoples-DNA.html#ixzz0l8GCRfEj

    Under the auspices of eradicating disease. But, who knows what complications will occur when one plays God like this. Not to mention that 80 trial embryos were cavalierly discarded after 8 days of observation.

    Not that that is a prevailing reason for concern, but it is for God-bothery types…

  873. B Moe says:

    Lead researcher Professor Doug Turnbull said: “What we’ve done is like changing the battery on a laptop.”

    That is wrong on so many levels.

  874. Jeff G. says:

    I justed wanted to note here that I happen to really like guins comments. They are in keeping with the essence of this place. Least, that’s the way I see it.

  875. Mike LaRoche says:

    The right is illiberal towards out-group citizens…..blacks, women, gays, hispanics.

    So now lefties like nishi presume to delineate different levels of citizenship for their designated identity-group pets? Good God, what an arrogant bint.

  876. TheThinMan says:

    Mr. G? A question and an observation
    When will you be in Chicago? and the Guy @ Powerline takes a look at the rise of “epistemic closure”. His conclusion:

    “In the end, epistemic closure on the right is fun to write about if one (a) likes to navel gaze or (b) likes to attack conservatives. From what I’ve seen, that’s mostly all there appears to be to the idea.”

  877. Mike LaRoche says:

    Nothing exemplifies “epistemic closure” better than a pathetic group of leftists, “liberal-tarians”, and pseudo-conservative squishes engaging in such a ridiculous conversation rather than bothering to debate actual ideological principles. Then again, it’s much easier for people of such limited intellect to falsely diagnose their opponents with some contrived epistemological malady than to actually understand conservative/classical liberal arguments.

  878. bh says:

    I justed wanted to note here that I happen to really like guins comments. They are in keeping with the essence of this place. Least, that’s the way I see it.

    I wanted to second that. Especially if it’s the case that I gave offense when I was feeling a bit irritated.

  879. Jeff G. says:

    TheThinMan —

    I’ll be there tomorrow through Monday afternoon. Meeting up with at least one person tomorrow night at a place called Emmetts on Milwaukee ave.

    If you can make it, email me and give me a cellphone # and I’ll give you a call before we head out.

  880. bh says:

    Hey, hope you keep all your bones in their relevant joints this weekend.

  881. happyfeet says:

    in korean 888 is pal pal pal

  882. sdferr says:

    guins may be puzzling on a first round home loss, is all. But he knows too, there’s no need to panic, even though the Flower looked slightly less than sharp last night.

Comments are closed.