The top story of the day, obviously, is what’s going on in Iran in the wake of what appears to be an attempt by the mullahcracy to steal the elections. There’s much too much for me to cover, given the time constraints, but you’ll do well following the story at Michael Totten’s place.
What I haven’t seen reported on much yet is Iraqi reaction.
But theoretically, the idea of good-faith negotiations with nuke-lusting raging anti-Semitic sponsors of terrorism who rig their already rigged elections is out the window, right? Theoretically, because who knows. Diplomatically, presidentially, politically speaking, the cat’s still got his tongue.
Donald Douglas thinks that the administration is taking a wait and palaver attitude.
Hypocrites go to all six hells? Nice.
That anyone thinks these ‘elections’ mean a thing is mind-numbing to me.
What, the Mullahs are going to listen to their mouthpiece?
[…] none of the Obamism from Friedman, “Winds of Change.” Gateway, “Madness.” Protein Wisdom would like to see some Iraqi reaction. Stay tuned, the Iraqis have as much or more reason to care […]
This one does, potentially. Iranian elections have been an exercise in silliness for some time, but never have they been this transparently fraudulent. Angry mobs created the Mullahcracy and angry mobs could end it. Interesting times ahead…
Could it be that the youths are inspired (to protest) by Obama.
Wait for it. It’ll be coming out of their mouths by tomorrow.
Surplus ballots, IDs for dead people, non-residents bribed to vote. Hmm. Sounds like the mullahs have been consulting with ACORN.
Here’s a crap sort of piece ostensibly on the Iraqi view of the Iranian election. Crap I say because it isn’t at all detailed or well reported I think, too brief, too narrow, it appears to be a function of the reporter rather than a thorough review of opinion in Iraq.
This could be as bad as Bush Gore 2000!
I jut knew it would be a bad idea for Obama to send that team of Chicago election advisers to Tehran.
Perhaps Obama will lien heavily on senior statesman Jimmy Carter for much needed advice on how to handle the situation.
Instead of a “wait and palaver” attitude, they should be taking steps to make sure the opposition leaders are not simply “disappeared”; you know, like they often do in Chicago…
One of the more interesting angles of this story, it seems to me anyhow, is the facial disconnect that by rights is ringing in the minds of the Iranian faithful who supported any candidate other than A’jad and also thinks that the results are fraudulent. The disconnect would come from the endorsement issued by the Grand Ayatollah claiming the sanction of Allah in these results.
So, thinks the oppositional faithful to himself, Allah is down with vote fraud? Really? Hang on a minute.
Oh, but wait a second, if Allah is not down with vote fraud, what is going on with Grand Ayatollah Kamenei saying he is?
Jimmy advises Obama…Jews suck and they just cause trouble.
Twitter is apparently good for something:
Odd that this should happen now that 0 and Hillary are leading American foreign policy. The string of improbable global political events continues.
The entire episode gives yet again the lie to Obama’s preening claim to have special insight into dealing with the Iranians, among others. The stuttering and floundering we witness now is due to the poverty of strategic vision regnant in the White House. Obama is an idiot. So it ought to come as no surprise that robust coherency in policy is going to be shown lacking, not just in this instance: we can surmise it will pop up in every critical challenge to come.
#11
Usually when the local youth start crying ‘Freedom!’ in the streets it’s time for the resident dictator to call out the troops or start packing away his Krugerands. This is not going to end well.
As Tehran burns, the NYT warns that American conservatives, incited by FoxNews, are violent and dangerous:
The breathtakng bullshit of it all just makes me think, there are six hells for hypocrites! Praise be to Allah.
Here is a dark report by Steve Clemons (h/t HotAir), an Obama supporter, if not insider, a New America Foundation think-tanker. Bleak prospects of the Iranians extricating themselves from their now foul’d nest without bloodshed, according to Clemons’ source.
What I haven’t seen reported on much yet is Iraqi reaction.
Dan,
Since you brought it up, I went and asked a few of them for their thoughts.
Suprisingly they had not been following and when I informed them of the outcome they did not seem suprised although I could sense some disappointment.
They see decisions in Iran as being largely driven by their religion and they were not optimistic about the prospects of change.
Of course “In Shallah” is a big part of the Iraqi’s belief system so they never seem too excited about the prospect of big changes.
This is admittedly a small sample but it wouldn’t suprise me if it was typical.
Regards
If you get the chance, Danger, ask your Iraqi interlocutors whether they think Iranian ordinary folk (as opposed to elites) think about or take into account the Iraqi’s democratic processes, at least to the extent that Iranians may now see that there is no dictatorial imposition on Iraqi election outcomes in the manner of Saddam. Might Iranians envy Iraqi freedoms? Or do they simply discount them as trivial? Or do they not take notice at all, having far more pressing needs that consume their thinking?
Of course “In Shallah†is a big part of the Iraqi’s belief system so they never seem too excited about the prospect of big changes.
Inshallah fatalism is a big part of all Muslim belief systems. That does not mean they don’t get riled up over things.
sdferr,
Iraqi’s dont tend to think to much depth about the subject (or a least they don’t share openly). I think the Shia vs Sunni thing dosen’t allow for too much common ground.
Politics is one of those areas that we were advised to avoid with the Iraqi’s but I will ask one of our interpreters and see if he has any views.
Another interesting question, one I haven’t heard discussed at length yet, centers on the events of election day regarding reports that the Iranian Interior Ministry, after reviewing the vote counts coming in from across the country, contacted the Mousavi campaign and told them it appeared clear enough that Mousavi was winning and that therefore he should begin to prepare his acceptance speech.
What the hell is going on there?
Is this story simply a falsehood spread by the Mousavi campaign to sow dissent and confusion post-election?
If not, why was a government Ministry allowed to get out ahead of a forgone conclusion? How could government discipline break down that far?
Were there ranking officials in the Ministry who didn’t like the vote rigging to come, understood it was about to happen and stepped in to make things difficult for the Ayatollahs? Or were they deluded, thinking they actually had a free election underway and acted in good faith in the face of what they thought were the obvious extrapolated results (this seems absurdly unlikely to me)?
Danger,
Considering the political and religious dynamics involved, I might limit my discussions of the Iranian people and their politics to folks who understand english fluently…
Less there be any viral spread of anectodes of, “American Soldiers are gathering information on Iran!”
I trust your judgement friend and am just offering a word to the wise…
Best Wishes
Thanks Danger. It’s hard, no, strike that, impossible from here to know what’s appropriate for you guys out there in Iraq, interacting and conducting ongoing business to broach in conversation, so I’m happy to defer to your good judgment in such things. Curiosity can, in a sense, know no bounds. Human to human relations, on the other hand, are always bounded.
sdferr,
I think that the “fog of war” that Von Clausewitz spoke of is extremely thick in Iran right now…
Internet access and cell phone servoce has been cut off all over the nation, according to the latest reports this morning (admittedly, on the TV news-FNS)…
I agree with Bill Kristol, who said that perhaps the clearest of signs will be to look for how many rank and file individuals take part in the general strike that Mousavi has called for; and presumably was the pretext the regime used to arrest him (per Mike Totten’s article)…
Let’s all hope the country shut’s down like France during a transit strike; for the Iranian people’s sake and for the world’s too!
Best Wishes
I have an Iranian aunt in Tehran, and several Iranian cousins both in Dubai and here stateside. I have not been able to reach them. The Patriarch of their side of the family was a finance minister under the Shah, so they are always pretty keenly aware of unrest. Should I hear from them, I will let you know.
Thanks JD,
It would be interesting to hear from a source, so to speak…
The Matriarch, Eti Jun, is in Tehran, and nobody has been able to reach her, Bob. From the sounds of it, it might be a while. I just emailed my cousins Hafez and Abbas in Dubia, and will let you know what they think.
Anyone that believes that there is going to be *ANY* change in Iraq is just fooling themselves. Until that Islamic Republic is overthrown and a free Government is in place. Nothing and I repeat; Nothing will change, at all.
That is all.
Sad part is, there are people on the “Christian Right” that want to turn America into a Christian version of Iran. With a Theocracy here. Hate to say it; but people like Joe Farah at WorldNetDaily.com want this, very badly. I’m all for morals and values, but I am not for oppression.
We get a visit from the fat-assed racist actual basement dwelling Moby conservative PaleoPat. Go bugger a goat while spitting out your caricatures, douchebag.
How can someone that nobody has heard of from some website, presumably on the Right, be a threat to implement a “THEOCRACY” when the Leftist control all the levers of power?
Even given the fog of war aspect to the reports Bob, I am taking heart in the low death tolls coming out. The rumors yesterday of 50-100 seems to be repudiated this morning and reduced to a mere three deaths. That looks to be a good thing for the forces of change.
Widespread killings would be just the thing to spark exponentially greater rage I’d think, and would be reported truly with ready dispatch as would any follow on reaction by the mobs. The apparent fact of restraint of killings on the part of the ruling parties (and ordinary police, I’d guess) tells me that they understand they have a tiger by the tail. Truncheoning is one thing, firing live rounds into crowds quite another.
Under the circumstances, reports that A’jad is urging a street celebration of his “victory” strikes me as little short of madness. I wonder if someone (Khamenei) won’t pull him back and stop the celebrations before they begin. On the other hand, the opposition’s calls for street protest and rallies, especially in the face of the shutdown of their ordinary communications systems, won’t wash with the protestors. They’ll say, I’ll be goddamned if I’m staying home on these mooks say-so. The bastards have already cancelled my vote and I’m for damned sure going to get out there and grouse about it. Besides, we monkeys like crowds. They’re fun.
‘God willing’ is also a great way to avoid saying anything that might offend or freely inform anyone.
It is the penultimate non responsive answer.
JD your post above to Pat was like watching this. That was some damn fine shooting.
Sorry, that ought to have read “…other hand, shutting down the opposition’s calls for street…etc.” My error.
Good points sdferr,
I’m still combing the foreign news sources trying to make sense of it all…
The less bloodshed, the better though, I agree…
Joe – PaleofatassPat has a long and distinguished history of being a complete and total douchenozzle around here.
His claim — no change can be set in motion until change is positively accomplished — is nonsensical on its face JD, so really, there’s little need to dignify the stupidity with a response.
I know sdferr, but I have a SOP to not allow lying racist Moby’s to post their drivel without being called on it. It is but one of my character flaws.
Pat—
What is wrong with one small faction of the electorate having influence on a Nation that has lost its moral compass? Christian fundamentalism belongs in the mix along with atheist Anarcho Marxists. Get over your phobia about religion. You sound like someone who needs some with all the blather about “oppression”. YOU are responsible for EVERYTHING in your life. Not the Christian Right. How different is Obeyme and his narcissistic prescriptions for transforming the world and Joe Farah? Enough with your hypocritical misinformed BS.
Where do your ideas about God come from by the way?
Not a rhetorical question: Is there any evidence that the Obama Administration has any problem at all with anti-democratic regimes? There must be some; I just can’t think of it.
Bear – It pulls its ideas straight from its bunghole.
I am Cornholio. I need teepee for my bunghole.
Bob,
Thanks for the advice
Oh and very impressive showing yesterday taking on Nishi, DU and Thor all at once across two threads.
I think you are the first person I have seen get anything out of Thor besides incoherrant bablings about obscure litterary references.
Mahmoud really lost the election
This cake is not his confection
That the votes were unkind
He really did mind
So he faked away his big rejection.
Thanks for the compliment Danger,
I’m glad if you got some enjoyment out of those exchanges…
A lot of folks around here are loathe to argue with thor, and have had some terrible experiences doing so; insults have been taken to heart and appear to have permanently created an air of ill will…
Although he often says provactive things, many times just acting as an agent provacateur or attempting to derail an conversation that has taken an uncomfortable turn from his point of view…
He doesn’t seem to have the same rancor with me as he does with others among the PW commentariat; I can’t explain it. And I know there are folks here that wish I wouldn’t even address him…
But, there are some subjects where he has a great degree of expertise, and others where he simply has strong opinions and notions-like we all do under the proper circumstances…
The world takes all kinds of people, and especially here in America we share the right to our ideals and beliefs-at least for now…
Thanks again, have a lovely and safe day!
Keep your chin up-always!, and your head down when appropriate…
Best Wishes
We are so fucked.
Hmmmmmmmm…
Check this all, an interesting AP release (I know, AP-Obama and all, but no RethugliKKKans are involved here to provoke a slant)
Mousavi urges Iran authorities to cancel election
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jGSJEAPs_r2T2wxsL5G3t4z-jajQD98QG9O80
Check that out! It seems that reports of his arrest may have been either premature, or this was written prior to it!
Money, from Joy B. from the story…
“Vice President Joe Biden said Sunday he has doubts about whether the election was free and fair, as Ahmadinejad claims. He said the U.S. and other countries need more time to analyze the results before making a better judgment about the vote.”
Enjoy!
Bob,
I was looking forward to your followup on Thor’s last comments regarding economics and the Chinese.
It seems to me the whole global warming cap and trade policy reaction on the left does nothing but worsen the conditions Thor was complaining about.
It seems that Nishi dropped in on that thread this morning (your time) looking for someone to open another can of whoop on him.
As Tehran burns, Sullivan cuddles with Letterman.
For the record, Obama in Cairo speaking on Iran and on democracy. First on Iran:
Then on democracy:
So, which is it to be? “Moving forward on the basis of mutual respect”, including respect for a regime that conducts fraudulent elections and shuts down the legitimate voice of opposition? Or “…government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people”, including government that doesn’t steal the vote from their people to enable a fraudulent winner chosen by the Clerics? Tell them, President Obama, tell the Iranians which it is to be.
Obama has no right to be angry if Ahmadinnerjacket won.
Obama won the same way.
Besides, Obama and the Persian Nazi have the exact same agenda.
“including respect for a regime that conducts fraudulent elections and shuts down the legitimate voice of opposition?”
I dunno sdferr,
Would it be to snarky and partisan of me to say that this sounds an awful lot like ACORN, the Democrats, and the O!ne..?
You know, I try to be fair and all…
Oooh, some crazy has come up from the drain!
Those liberal Iranian kids are giving it to the right-wing conservatives in the streets of Tehran!
Truth to Power!
Gateway Pundit also has good coverage of the events in Tehran. Including a link to this Iranian blogger.
Hi, I’m thor
How readily can we imagine the rejoinder “There has never been a free and fair election, you boobs. Prove me wrong.”?
All too readily, I’d guess. And where would such an argument begin? How about……
oh, you know.
” Hi, I’m thor on 6/14 @ 11:48 am #”
That’s why they make KY Jelly ,dude.
The Obamessiah has already came out in support of and welcomed The Islamic Republic with an open hand. Tell everyone to sit down, shut up and stop being so racist!
C’mon thor,
Just because Iran is a theocracy, doesn’t make them wingers; although they are conservatives, by definition, since they want to maintain the status quo…
And, our constitution defacto forbids a theocracy, due to the religious neutrality of the state; so don’t even go there!
They’re a totalitarian state closer to the former Soviet Union and China during the Mao days…
You know, large populations run by a small group of their betters!
Kinda like where some fringe Democrats would like to go…
So, which is it to be?
Whichever provides cover for doing the wrong thing. It’s O’s rhetorical crutch. Legal Insurrection had a good post on his strawman affectation.
Appointing czars and dispensing with business contracts, SCOTUS signing off on all the madness; I do believe the Democrats have us heading down that road already, with the pedal to the metal as it were.
Nothing like international chaos and people dying in the streets for their rights to give the trolls a hard-on.
Pathetic.
Netanyahu’s speech, no transcript available yet:
YNet
Haaretz
J’Post
Joe on 6/14 @ 8:53 am #
Really the place to go for breaking news with on-the-ground updates, and quick feed to headlines.
Many Journos and Iocals in Iran updating.
motor city’s burning…
ans there ain’t a thing…you can do
john lee hooker/ then mc5
I saw Bmoe play Dead Flowers and Powderfinger last night. Dude can play.
CNN is just not cutting it (imagine that).
Coup is a better term than fraud:
Meanwhile Sullivan and Olbermann can alternative between abusing Sarah Palin and sucking off each other.
Meanwhile Sullivan and Olbermann can alternate between abusing Sarah Palin and sucking off each other.
My bad
The commenters at Gateway Pundit’s roundup are picking up Radio Saturn on their bridgework. They’re claiming that Obama is watching these protests, to see how to handle domestic disturbances after he cancels the next elections. Yow…
The Iranian opposition twitter feed.
TSI,
That sounds waaaaay out there, man! I think there’s be waaaaaay worse uprising if Obama canceled the elections; and I don’t think the military would back him up on that…
Venezuelan Riot Troops In Tehran!
The Iraqis I know well are all 14th Division – al Basrah. They are a bit more hotile to the “Persians” (despite being 100% Shia) than the average Iraqi. They are not amused.
At best, we will see Iran play uot like Rumania did when Ceaucescu went down. At worst…I don’t want to think about it. A sophisticated, educated and yearning to be free people under the boot of a bunch of savages. This makes me part hopeful, mostly sad.
er, “hostile”. Tho’ maybe they would be ‘hotile’ too.
Do we have much opportunity from our positions in Iraq and Afghanistan to try to get some aid to the good guys over there? Not that I hold much hope for this administration attempting such a thing, but is it even in the realm of possibilities, you think?
CBS News “Meet Iran’s George W. Bush.See they really are Right Wing Theocrats. TNR says so.
At “The Other McCain” Andrew Sullivan compares Ahmadinejed to Karl Rove with a bit on Sarah Palin thrown in.
Obama has to act now. All the Left’s nemesis’ in one spot. How can he not?
Iran is bambis bay of pigs. Details at eleven…
That is ridiculous, Karl Rove or Sarah Palin would never be welcomed to speak at Columbia.
That was almost funny.
Like anyone would buy a ticket to Rove or Palin.
And the source is…
Iranian Students, your place under the Obama bus is waiting. Please stand by to be run over.
This one is going to have to be 100% home grown revolt – the US will do nothing to help, with the current Administration in place. That has been made pretty clear right from the start. That is why I am mostly sad, and only a little hopeful.
We could only be counted on to “help” well after it was too late (take some asylum seekers) or an accomplished fact that the mullahs had been tossed out.
LTC, given attitudes in Iran, I’m not sure help from us would help anyway.
I’d half expect us to give the mullahs asylum.
Interesting. The Mullahs may be walking this farce back. Iran to Probe Claims of Vote Fraud Could it be that their assessment was not so divine after all? Or perhaps the prospect of hanging from a streetlamp has a clarifying effect on the mind.
Good point about the clarity that comes from the prospect of a necktie party…
But, you know, I wouldn’t doubt their divinity; empathy and all…
They just mighta not divined the right winner…
Right or wrong, Obama is apparently waiting for things to play out before he makes a comment.
But, I can see into the future, and on the slim chance that the young folks get their revolution, we know who will be heaped with praise for inspiring it.
Hope and Change, people.
Pablo, there’s no better way to buy time than to call for an investigation. I bet a number of opposition leaders get charged with crimes related to the election, then there’s a declaration that, outside the opposition’s attempts, the election was good.
That’s certainly plausible, Rob. I just find it interesting that they’re suddenly willing to second guess Allah.
“First thing we do, we kill all the Mullahs!”
— Bill al-Shakespear
Given the slow response to the situation by the Obama Administration, I propose that Obama appoint George W. Bush as the “Decider Czar.”
The “Decider Czar” will make all decisions for the administration leaving Obama free to do the two thing he likes best .. campaign and blame Bush.
Neo – that is brilliant, in kind of a twisted way. But brilliant noetheless. There would be an awful lot of people grateful for more years of Bush blaming.
We’re all waiting for Obama to throw the students a bone, and meanwhile Germany is calling in the Iranian ambassador over the phony election results…
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE55D1Z820090615
Effin’ Germany!
Would it be too much to expect the leader of the free world to be sayin’ something?
At least the Ger’s are willing to talk to them. Iran doesn’t want to hear from ours, period. Ross tossed.
I wonder if Hillz is down with that maneuver…
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/iran-the-view-from-the-white-house.html
That and Joe Biden saying “we are still collecting data” or somesuch on FTN… not exactly a stirring or inspiring call to freedom, eh?
Remember Colonel,
He’s there to bolster the O!ne’s foreign policy credentials…
*sigh*
More like impeachment insurance…
ISTR one of his drones referring to him as the ruler of the free world.
An attitude which may just be the source of the delay here.
Odd that this should happen now that 0 and Hillary are negotiating American foreign policy. The string of improbable global political events continues.
FTFY.