The Left have made a lot of noise about the Israeli’s “miscalculating” in their assault on Hamas, hoping that the propaganda about hearts and minds will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is why they’re so stunned that Israeli support for the campaign is so high.
Here’s an interesting perspective, via Weasel Zippers:
Two captured terrorists interviewed by Maariv/NRG say that Hamas was not expecting Israel’s response to the escalation in missile attacks on Israeli targets that preceded Operation Cast Lead. One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation who had already done time in an Israeli jail, said, “Hamas took a gamble. We thought, at worst Israel will come and do something from the air – something superficial. They’ll come in and go out. We never thought that we would reach the point where fear will swallow the heart and the feet will want to flee. You [Israel] are fighting like you fought in ’48. What got into you all of a sudden?”
The second terrorist, a 21-year-old, said Hamas brought order to Gaza, but also brought fear. He noted that it was dangerous in Gaza for non-Hamas members, citing an instance of his being beaten and another in which he saw a friend killed when he went to get gas. “Now they’re all gone,” he said. “There have been no Hamasniks in the streets since the start of the campaign.”
D’oh! What got into them? Hopenchange!
UPDATE: TigerHawk’s take is similar
Hell yeah.
But…but…but snippy told me the Israelis are only killing civilians.
Any time I hear these terrorist pieces of human garbage die I smile.
N. O’Brain, you forgot to add the part about…with American Taxpayer welfare bombs. That never gets old.
I’d really like to have sympathy for the Gazans. Not regarding Israel, Israel has been extraordinarily generous to these mooks. No I had sympathy because of the way Fatah and Hamas used the people as human shields so they could act like the animals they are. Then they went and voted Hamas into the government, and all my sympathy evaporated. It still amazes me that nobody is pointing out that the duly elected government of the Gazans has been waging war against Israel so Israel basically has every international right to go in and wipe the place out completely.
My sympathy evaporated when I saw them dancing in the streets after 9/11.
My sympathy for them was stillborn after seeing all the trouble they caused in Lebanon and before that in Jordan. Plus all the Jews AND Americans they’ve been murdering my entire adult life.
SBP, yeah, I’m with you there. Although so much of that crap is manufactured it’s hard to tell just how deep that “Death to Amerikkkkkkka” goes.
BTW, can’t thank you enough for Trollhammer, it’s made this blog so much more enjoyable.
RC, I mentioned that fact regarding Dan’s post on the destruction of “defensive tunnels”, and was reprimanded for my wish that the tunnels be filled with Palestnians. I commented that I lost any sympathy after seeing the video of dancing and cheering Palestnian on the evening news on 9/11. I’ll manage to get to sleep tonight.
You’re welcome, RC.
Less captured terrorists please I think.
Yeah seeing them pass out candy on 9/11 kinda drys up my well of sympathy. F them all.
Meanwhile Congress overwhelmingly supports the Israeli invasion of Gaza. Why don’t those corrupt bastard ever listen to their constituents, since only 31% of Democrats support it. That 31% must include all those socially liberal Jooos who keep voting Democrat that someone here keeps talking about. The rest must support the progressive Hamas policy of using women and children as human shields and the Hamas war crime of indiscriminately rocketing civilian populations. I fail to see why they complained about Chimpy McTortureburton when they lurvs them some Hamas and Hezbollah. Moral Equivalence fever, catch it!
Comment by happyfeet on 1/16 @ 9:53 am #
Less captured terrorists please I think.
It’s better to just kill them, otherwise there’s the storage issue. Gotta be budget conscious these days.
“He noted that it was dangerous in Gaza for non-Hamas members, citing an instance of his being beaten and another in which he saw a friend killed when he went to get gas.”
Ah, democracy in action! What a way to win friends and influence people…
There will be no peace until the Palestinians themselves rise up and reject Hamas; but they must have the courage to do so as well as a principled set of leaders to fill the power vacuum that they leave behind…And that, my friends, is the tall order, the veritable un-obtain-ium, if this entire situation…
Under a multi-cultural and marally relatavistic guise, UN sanctioned extremists have been allowed, indeed aided and abetted, to institutionalize Joooooooooo hatred in the Palestinians. Now this hasn’t been helped by Israeli social policies over the years, but for all the hand-wringing over the plight of the Palestinians; why won’t any of their Arab “brothers” take them into their populations???
I feel for these folks on a humanistic level, but like SBP, much of my sympathy evaporated when I saw film of them celebrating the attacks of 9/11…
I see a lot of folks quoting Nasrallah. They may not be aware of it, of course…
You know, Israel failed miserably in Lebanon last time. Everybody says so. They don’t control Lebanon, Hizb’Allah is stronger, and the Arabs have plenty of propaganda material to encourage their fighters.
Funny thing, though. There aren’t any rockets coming from Lebanon.
Regards,
Ric
Anyone got a link to that video by the way? It always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
after 9/11 catastrophe “party in Gaza “must see!!!
Funny thing, though. There aren’t any rockets coming from Lebanon.
Excellent point.
And when some Hamasniks got a couple off a while back, Nasrallah was in an awful hurry to deny responsibility. Must be he didn’t want UNFIL thinking the wrong thing.
I see Sec. General Ban Ki-moon is onboard with the new Jew policy “You may not defend yourselves.”
Ric: Well, there have been one or two. Each promptly followed by furious backpedaling and a “we didn’t mean it please don’t hit!” press statement.
Apparently their memory for such things is a little sharper than certain others’.
Also: it’s definitely past time to think about a unilateral cease-fire from Ban Ki-Moon’s pie hole.
RC makes a very important legal point. Hamas is the duly elected government in Gaza. Therefore, this is one legal entity waging war on another and all that implies. Israel is legally within it’s rights to completely occupy Gaza, cut it off from the rest of the world, demilitarize it, and set up a de-Hamas-ification program, re-educate the populace with a pro-Israel education system, and to conduct war trials.
It’s what the allies did to Germany and to a lesser extent, Japan. Completely legit.
premature detonation
I heat there are drugs you can get for that.
#5
RC I was told by various lefties about what a failure democratic elections were because Gaza’ns elected Hamas. As though the benifit to America and the world would only be if they elected a Islamic Jimmy Carter. What Hamas getting elected did was put them on the hotseat. They only saw the power and they were smacked upside the head with the responsibility. The reason why democracies generally dont go to war with each other.
What goes on in Gaza is the responibility of Hamas now, period.
Thanks Mossberg.
Actually the Gaza example might just be the exception to the rule. If Hamas was legitimately elected to head the government of Gaza then we do have a democracy waging war against a neighboring democracy. This will turn out to be the lesson to be learned about when the constituency is; 1. Ignorant of history, 2. Ignorant of reality around them and 3. Batshit crazy. Which, coincidentally is what has happened in the United States. Ich Bin Gaza’n!
RC makes a very important legal point. Hamas is the duly elected government in Gaza. Therefore, this is one legal entity waging war on another and all that implies. Israel is legally within it’s rights to completely occupy Gaza, cut it off from the rest of the world, demilitarize it, and set up a de-Hamas-ification program, re-educate the populace with a pro-Israel education system, and to conduct war trials.
We have the bizarre situation where Israel is expected to supply food and power to a country that is waging war against it. People wonder why we think that Israel is treated differently than any other country on Earth, when we have the secretary general of the UN telling them to ignore blatant and repeated acts of war committed against them.
“a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation”. Or “a 52-year-old dumbass who accidentally blew himself up while trying to murder him some Jews”
More good news:
Hamas about to Crack
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjEyNmNkZTU5OWJiZjBkY2QzYjIxYTk5ZTc3ZWYyYjI=
Here’s an AP article about a mini-summit in Qatar of a number of Arab leaders with Hamas tough-guy Khaled Mashaal, who proclaims “We will not accept Israel’s conditions for a cease-fire” among other irrelevancies and inanities. Neither Egypt, Jordan nor Saudi Arabia were in attendance. Mahmoud Abbas didn’t go and apparently was unrepresented. From the article:
I’d also note that Iraq isn’t even mentioned.
Wow, a link to Arutz Sheva?
Are you going to start linking to the Klan’s website next?
I like that Banky Moon insists that it be unilateral, though I wish more “journalists” would report that it has to be unilateral, because Hamas insists on unacceptable conditions for their participation. If Banky were a real celestial object, he’d say “We tried, but Hamas says they’ve got the IDF where they want ’em, so eff ’em all. Give us a call when you’re ready to negotiate, guys.”
But then he wouldn’t be the head of the UN, would he? They can’t stand gravity over there.
News of the impending defeat of my ideological comrades is upsetting, so I will employ a shallow rhetorical trick to distract you. I think that this morning, I will try the “attack the messenger” gambit, which has served me well in the past.
Please commence with discussions about my distraction, and pay no attention to the fact that my ideological enemies are winning handily, with a surprisingly shallow response from the Arab and European leaders and chattering classes, whose lack of support I also find very disturbing, so let’s not talk about that either.
With much appreciation and kind wishes (you evil self-loathing homosexual simpletons),
Sheik Baldur ibn Turnip al-Fee
Squid, I would luuuuuuv to hear those words comin’ out of Moon-pie…
But I won’t hold my breath
To be fair, I think thor’s on board with the Israeli offensive.
I mean, imagine Moon sayin’, “eff ’em” in regards to the Hamass-holes…
It.would.be.priceless…
He is Dan, he said as much yesterday; his only caveat is that he would like to them to see it through and dispense with Hamas once and for all. Not so much for ideological reasons, but moreso to give all the suffering it’s proper gravitas-so to speak…
Heh. Maybe Israel decided it needs to do something decisive before the change of U.S. administration on Tuesday.
Good old Banky. Recapitulating some of the stupidity of the cold war with “unilateral disarmament”. Yeah, that’s a good idea, just like in the stupid cop shows where the bad guy grabs somebody and demands the good cop drop his weapon and he does. In the world the perp then proceeds to shoot the disarmed cop and the hostage. In Gaza takes the breather to regroup, rearm and then lob as many rockets as they choose into Israel. Hmmm…as demonstrated universally, it’s always the side on the hairy side of the lollypop to make cease-fire noises, does that tell us something about Banky, and maybe his Banky accounts?
Its always nice to have your opinion confirmed.
#16 Ric:
Yesterday I said this:
Not one Egyptian fighter has scrambled to stop Israel from bombing in Gaza. Not one regiment has entered Gaza to protect it from Israeli invasion.
The PA in the West Bank has done nothing to assist the Gazans.
Hezbollah is quiet.
Syria isn’t mobilizing armor to retake the Golan.
Jordan isn’t transiting troops through the West Bank.
Iran isn’t launching its missiles.
Talk is cheap; action speaks.
They don’t care about Hamas; they aren’t going to die for Gaza.
So much for the international community.
Comment by Dan Collins on 1/16 @ 11:21 am #
“To be fair, I think thor’s on board with the Israeli offensive.”
Meh. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
True enough, Mikey, and I hadn’t seen the full list before you posted it, but I was thinking about it from the other side, so to speak.
What is a State, how do you get one, and what do you do when you have it?
Hizb’Allah apparently would like to be a State — more specifically, they would like to take over the existing State of Lebanon. In committing themselves to rocket attacks against Israel, they were behaving like a (belligerent) State but claiming the rights and privileges of a private (religious, in this case) organization. Israel decided to take them at face value, as a State or nascent State engaged in belligerent acts against another, and proceeded to take action based on that judgement. Hizb’Allah “defeated” them — but, in the process, were forcibly educated in how relations between States works. Basically, if you’re going to act like a State, you’re going to judged as a State, and State-to-State belligerence is War. Nasrallah very wisely decided that he was going to continue to build his State power — and the rockets stopped, and he and his people (now properly called “soldiers”, if distastefully trained ones) enforce that. We don’t have to like Nasrallah or Hizb’Allah to recognize that as responsible use of State power.
Hamas doesn’t appear to be educable in that respect. Pity. Note that Israel does not, despite the yelps of the Leftoids, want to rule or own Gaza, nor do they want to kill anybody. They want the rockets to stop. If there were anybody in Hamas with the sense God gave Hassan Nasrullah, that’s what they would get, sooner rather than later, and the Israelis would go home.
Regards,
Ric
It’s not my fault honey! That was “premature detonation.”
It’s because of the Jews!
You’re lucky you didn’t catch any shrapnel. What? Oh…sorry.
I’ll get you a towel.
A couple atomic bombs and an occupation changed Japan’s tune rather drastically. I harbor no illusions about what it will take to make the Palestinians settle for the peace they could have for free.
“Nasrallah very wisely decided that he was going to continue to build his State power  and the rockets stopped, and he and his people (now properly called “soldiersâ€Â, if distastefully trained ones) enforce that.”
It makes me wonder whether Nas’rallah had some in his ranks who were a little too eager to prioritize Jew-killing over consolidating control of Lebanon, so he provoked an Israeli response to have an excuse to purge them. Many are the pathways to power.
“A couple atomic bombs and an occupation changed Japan’s tune rather drastically.’
Yeah, but have you seen the PT Barnum freak show that is Japanese public television since 1950!? If you provide a camera and an audience, a Japanese dude will, literally, eat a piece of shit.
And their civilian population was comparatively sane before we nuked ’em.
I mean as it stands now, hommicidal, sing-song, Jew-murdering puppets pass for “Sesame Street” children’s programming on Palestinian TV.
I’m not 100% sure that lobbing indiscriminate gamma rays into that particular fucking gene pool is the right call.
Priceless!
Well said, Ric, as usual. I’m struck by the historical differences of radicalized Islam as represented by Hizb’Allah and Hamas. The former reflects the Iranian concept of “Revolutionary Jihad” which was founded in the Iranian overthrow of the Shah in’79. Thus they must have some direction from the Qud in the admittedly rudimentary nation building that Iran has accomplished. They reflect the Iranian concept of bluster and bloviate but don’t confront, at least when you know the other side is capable of pounding you into duck sauce (see Lebanon 2006 & Iraq.)
Hamas reflects the the chest thumping bully-boy mentality of Al qa’eda and others of the Salafi branch of jihadi loonies. It’s become quite clear that this twig is completely addicted to overreaching in confrontation and control and not the least bit interested in anything resembling statesmanship. Hamas may well learn the hard lesson that al qa’eda learned in Iraq: The whole murderous bully boy routine eventually gets old even to a relatively radicalized Muslim population. Israel is making that point rather sharply and if reports are to be believed that Hamas has mostly been driven into hiding rather than face the “invaders” then the Islamic manhood test will have been a failure. Hamas may find it much more difficult to rule by carrot and stick a population that watched them hide behind children and run into bunkers when faced with the enemy.
Of course, nothing is more important to moral ascendancy than guaranteeing no civilian casualties. (/sarc)
“Comment by parsnip on 1/16 @ 11:09 am #
Are you going to start linking to the Klan’s website next?”
Naw, I ain’t a Democrat.
The Klan: terrorist arm of the Democratic party.
“#
Comment by Cave Bear on 1/16 @ 12:13 pm #
Comment by Dan Collins on 1/16 @ 11:21 am #
“To be fair, I think thor’s on board with the Israeli offensive.â€Â
Meh. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.”
But a stopped clock isn’t insane.
BJTexs,
You make an excellent point. I remember with all the bounties and all the State Department approved bullshit “talk” about Zarqawi, it was that one video that drove the “Arab Street” nuts. Something as silly as that press briefing that made fun of “The Warrior” Zarqawi trying in vain to fire an M249.
After more than a year, basically a school yard taunt caused his insecure ass to surface just long enough to get spotted… and then enjoy a couple of 2000lb curb stomps courtesy of our fine boys in uniform and the American tax payer.
“But a stopped clock isn’t insane.”
But, it does have a trust fund.
“Are you going to start linking to the Klan’s website next?”
Sure am.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd
Hamas in Iraq is well-funded by the U.S. military, BJT.
Is that a bad thing?
Lamont,
The Palestinian equivalent of “Ninja Warrior” would be preferable to the Palestinian equivalent of Pearl Harbor. I don’t think we’ve found the cure for “young and dumb” but we can hope for “the only one you hurt with your stupidity is yourself.”
If we find a cure for the second, and a wayback machine, I’m sending it to my younger self. Details will not be forthcoming.
The top Hamas leadership fighting from the front lines in Damascus is still talking pretty tough. Easy enough to do around a swimming pool I guess.
“Hamas in Iraq…blah bla-blah, bla-bla, blah ba blah”…
Did ya’ll hear something?
Yeah…me neither.
“The Palestinian equivalent of “Ninja Warrior 
Would be Jews competing against imminent death in an Islamic version of “The Running Man.”
Any other “Ninja Warrior” scenarios would require a civilized society and a satellite subscription to G4.
OMG, Olivia Munn is hot.
What?
I’m just saying.
Did ya’ll hear something?
Yeah…me neither.
I did. It was something like “OMFG, my pals are getting their jihad-soaked brains slapped across Gaza, and the guilt thing isn’t working! I must change the subject!!”
It appears that there was miscalculating indeed in this conflict–on the part of Hamas.
Still, I have to say something rings really wrong about this article.
Hardened terrorists, let alone hardened combat POWs, really dont talk like this. They dont tell the other side’s media, in effect, “Our bad. You guys are stronger and smarter than we reckoned. How come youre so much better than we were told?”
When i was a history grad student I went to the National Archives in Md. and did a lot of research on POW debriefs from WW II, Korea and Vietnam. Even the stupidest and most conscripted German 16 yr old or press-ganged VC, when prompted to ask why they were fighting, usually said that they were simply doing their job, even if they hated Hitler or whomever.
In all likelihood, a harmless bit of friendly media manipulation on behalf of the IDF, who lord knows, has suffered from no small amount of (unjust) criticism.
I’m not a big fan of Hamas, but that doesn’t mean Israel is free to violate the rules of decent behavior, Jeffy.
As for your one handed cheering of war crimes, that is to be expected.
I bet you guys even dream you’re in the IDF while you’re pullin’ it.
I’m not a big fan of Hamas…
Yet you not only condone their war crimes and cowardice, you use them to condemn Israel. You may not be a BIG fan, but you are sure as fuck a fan asswipe.
I’m not a big fan of Hamas, but that doesn’t mean Israel is free to violate the rules of decent behavior, Jeffy.
And which “rules of decency” are those, Snippy? Those that say you must wear uniforms and insignia to distinguish yourself from the civilian population? Or maybe those that require weapons be carried openly? How about those that prohibit civiians from being used as shields, lest they be unnecessarily injured or killed?
Those?
Have you noticed I talk of distractions while ipso facto being one? Like a party tray, I’m delicious and free! Even if I do suckle the chort behind a bathroom stall door, so what. Can’t a man engage in private activities in public areas without being condemned as some sort of two-headed animal of hypocrisy? Leave me alone!
Kill them all, or rub their trousers until they give what you want! My motto.
But don’t mind me, I’m not here to cause distractions.
Im not thinking israel is violating many rules of decent behavior, Parsnip. They are just tired of terrorism and the slaughter and attacks on their civilians. War and combat aren’t favored developments, but I think Israel is doing a pretty moral job of waging a difficult sort of war.
or, lets take this another way–how many Hamas commanders get upbraided for waging indiscriminate warfare? Not many I’d suppose.
BTW, glad to hear youre not a Hamas fan, though their approach and track record are so commendable we’d all see you’d be tempted. because really, if you have a beef with Bush as an authoritarian incompetent, then you’d have to be red with rage over what Hamas and Hizbollah do.
He said he wasn’t a big Hamas fan, mcgruder, which I figure can only mean he is a midget.
I’ll bet he looks just cute as hell in the little bitty kaffiyeh.
“I’m not a big fan of Hamas”…
Don’t sell yourself short snippy. You’re a HUGE fan of Hamas.
“Jews to the Oven!”…and whatnot.
“They murder children….
…on purpose!!”
…and so & so, and such & such, & so on.
We’ve all read the UN News Letter douchebag.
Go be stupid somewhere else.
…”free to violate the rules of decent behavior”…
I, for one, am in dire need of this “decent behavior” lesson. Teach on snippy. I have pen & paper and I’m prepared to take notes.
[…] Weekly Standard, TigerHawk, Fausta’s Blog, protein wisdom and Weasel […]
#57 Mark D.:
If we find a cure for the second, and a wayback machine, I’m sending it to my younger self. Details will not be forthcoming.
I have often thought that if I could go back in time and find my teenage self, I would slap the nonsense out of me.
Of course, there is the idea that if Israel is going to face Iran, and is going to go after Iran’s nuclear program, then destroying one of Iran’s proxy armies in detail while giving a non-too-subtle warning to every other player would be a good thing.
I note that in the links Iran is calling for fighting, yet Iran’s proxy Hezbollah is doing nothing right now when dividing Israel’s attention would be the militarily correct thing to do. It could be that the lesson Hezbollah got from the 2006 war isn’t the one they publicly trumpeted; and the fight with Hamas is reinforcing that.
Lamont, monkyboy doesn’t seem to be willing to oblige, so here are those notes. They’re short; you can probably memorize them. They depend on who you are.
–If you are Hamas or other Islamist, kill Jews, brag about how wonderful you are for killing Jews, and use children, women, and other noncombatants as shields.
–If you are “the world community”, ooh and aah over how clever Hamas (or other) is, congratulate them on their successful strategy, and smirk about how helpless the Jews are to counter it.
–If you are Jewish: Die.
This completes the Rules of Good Behavior. (If you don’t belong to one of the identified groups, there is no option that counts as “good behavior”. In order to get such an option, you have to join one of the three named groups, and “the world community” has the lowest bar for entry.)
Regards,
Ric
Thank goodness we will soon be returning to moral governemnt.
I’d say anyone who wants to continue suckling at the U.S. government teat better shape up.
20 bucks says there’s a truce in Gaza before Tuesday.
Mikey, I suspect that is because the Iranians may be starting to figure out “if we show we have actual C and C over both of these scum pools, Israel may decide not to bother with the middlemen. Ooopsie!”
The UN needs to flat let go of the tit I think not just shape up. It’s unseemly.
20 bucks says there’s a truce in Gaza before Tuesday.
Sorry, I never bet with insiders.
you mean, Barak “never met a chance to vote for more funds for Israel I didn’t like” Obama? That guy? Barak “please give me the rest of the 350 billion TARP funds to give away even though 61% of people surveyed are against it” Obama?
#76 SDN:
Perhaps, though I think ‘plausible deniability’ would be a bit thin at this time; at least for those with any honesty.
Still – no one is moving to physically support Hamas, and if Israel ignores ‘world opinion’ then nothing will happen.
The lessons of the Abyssinia Crisis are clear – no one is going to die for Abyssinia, and Gaza is less important today than Abyssinia was in 1935.
They may scream and shout and burn Puegots
But no one is actually going to go
To war
For Gaza.
Ric, I totally got that “World Community” thing-a-ma-jig after a few run throughs.
The first time I answered: Suicide Bomber.
The second time: Martyrdom Operator
The third time: US State Department Contact
I nailed it that third time.
[…] ‘FESSING UP– says terrorist: “Hamas took a gamble. We thought, at worst Israel will come and do […]
I don’t know how moral the Bush Administration has been, but leagally they’ve been tops.
So many investigations – so few indictments. So few convictions.*
Really, the Gold Standard when it comes to that.
*Impeachment is really off the table as the result will remove an officer from his office. Kind of lame after that person is no longer in office. Sort of like disbarring an attorney who is no longer a member of the bar.
N.B.: Alcee Hastings was a federal judge, was impeached, and was convicted. He is now a representative. Impeachment only removed him from the office of judge; didn’t prevent him from holding another office. So go ahead and impeach George W. Bush – he’ll never serve as president again if convicted.
Thank goodness we will soon be returning to moral governemnt.
I’d say anyone who wants to continue suckling at the U.S. government teat better shape up.
Not going to respond to my questions, are ya?
And where would the Democratic Party be without a tit to offer to its constituents? Shape up? Sheeeeeit, shape down is more like it…southpaws love misery.
The “humans as shields” shtick has yet to be proven, Jeffy,
The IDF artillery shells are only accurate to two or three times the length of a football field.
If the IDF fires at a Hamas target but hits a hospital four blocks away…do the innocent victims count as “human shields?”
Or are the gunners just garden variety murderers?
how accurate are Hamas rockets?
“I’d say anyone who wants to continue suckling at the U.S. government teat better shape up.”
Well, that’s awesome snippy!
According to your rocket surgeon/ Harvard math… I guess Mexico, Canada, the Middle East & the rest of the Western European free-loaders that live under our “rainbows & unicorns” defense umbrella can all just go fuck themselves.
Sign me up.
Look I’m fine with that, but I want a godamn tax cut.
you’ll get nothing and like it.
Hamas is not for real human. Maybe some of their shields are, but Hamas and their UN pals don’t really have the kind of discernment to tell for real human people from the debased animal ones what Gaza is a lot rife with.
Our “Defense Umbrella” Lamont?
What a laugh.
Who are we supposed to be defending the world against?
oh. I might could say something even more ahistorical if you gave me time.
Georgia and Ukraine and Poland could not be reached for comment.
also Kuwait.
and Kyoto.
“The “humans as shields†shtick has yet to be proven.”
Quite right…as does that Einstein/ Oppenheimer “atom splitting” nonsense.
And that Gravity notion brouhaha as well…
That stupid Newton fellow died a century ago.
Gravity is an evil Christian/ Jew myth.
I fell out of that pear tree when I was five because allah made it so.
Period.
allah can be such a scamp
“Thank goodness we will soon be returning to moral governemnt.”
Morals!?!, You’re talkin’ about Morals!?!
We’ll be lucky if O!&Co. ever make an “un-nuanced” statement, appoint an actually honest and ethical person, or actually keep a campaign promise ever again…Morals!?!…
[Entire rant said with the intonation and cadence of Jim Mora’s famous “Playoffs!?! rant while coaching the NFL Indianapolis colts…}
MORALS!?!
Are you saying you’ve been to Gaza, Lamont?
Or are you just another pud pullin’ chickenhawk ghoul?
I think the “human shield” shtick was invented by amateur soldiers to excuse their piss poor aim.
no. Islamists are really into dead noncombatant people. It’s a thing with them. They love dead kids especially. They cart them about and wail and make a big fuss for their Reuters and UN pals what need catharsis a lot. You can look it up. Don’t you listen to NPR?
“Who are we supposed to be defending the world against?”
Today? Pretty much everybody.
Tomorrow? I dunno. This shit is tiring.
Heard they found live stuff on Mars. Not sure if it’s sentient, but, so far, it remains politically unaffiliated.
Maybe you should send it your news letter, see if it writes in.
heh, so you’ve been there parsnip? or are you just another pud pullin’ chickendove ghoul?
If only Hamas hadn’t fired on Israel…
Offering a tit to their constituencies if a feature, not a bug, for the modern Democratic party…
The “humans as shields†shtick has yet to be proven…
Really? It shouldn’t be hard for you to provide a link to a picture of a Hamas military installation, then.
“pud pullin’ chickenhawk”
I saw Rachel Ray make that stew on the Food Network.
those little scamps
“Comment by parsnip on 1/16 @ 7:32 pm #
The IDF artillery shells are only accurate to two or three times the length of a football field.”
[Klaxon sound]
Sorry parsnip, I wasn’t an artillery man, but I know! that this statement is a fractured fairy tale at best…
Looks like another loss for Israel:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056178.html
It’s amazing what the threat of morality will do.
I’d rather go to Van Nuys than Gaza I think. At least you can get a decent taco in Van Nuys. Gaza is dirty and smelly and filled with murderous stupid islamist sleestaks. And they’re godawful poor.
??? what threat?
looks like we’ll be giving Israel more “welfare” so I’m not sure why you’d be happy about that.
Hamas I don’t think have done very much to win the confidence of the peoples what they subjugate. Looks like what we end up with are some papers what say you know what sucks about this Palestinian shithole? Fucking Iran. That’s a big step forward I think for people what appreciate a bit of clarity.
Hamas has done better than we’ve done in Afghanistan, happy.
And they did it on the cheap.
tuberhead is happy about this part, maggie
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056134.html
His side is going to keep right on killing Jewish kids which brings tuber great joy.
Still waiting on a picture of a Hamas military squad not hiding among civilians, by the way.
I don’t see anything here about Hamas doing well. Unless you consider being called a terrorist organization several times a good thing.
Hamas has done better than we’ve done in Afghanistan, happy.
You know, I want to get pissed when he says shit like this, but it is so mind-numbingly retarded I can’t help but laugh.
Yeah, maggie, getting Egypt to agree to help stop weapons smugglers was a huge win for Hamas, they can get back to throwing rocks and slingshots that better represent their technological level.
“Comment by parsnip on 1/16 @ 8:09 pm #
Or are you just another pud pullin’ chickenhawk ghoul?”
Oh man parsnip, this is rich even for you…How are you callin’ anyone else a chickenhawk..? After Tuesday you’ll be goin’ alllllllll soldier-of-fortune over O!s righteous! war in Afghanistan…
Chickenhawk indeed…At the risk of plaigarising, what was your MOS, AFSC, NEC, or Officer designator again..?
Yay Hamas! They gots killed and remarkably, more impoverished. And they engineered it all themselves! Time to kick back and bask in the afterglow. Got a couple of couches, they sleep on the love-seat, savin’ all their food stamps and burnin’ down the trailer park.
Yo. Cut it.
According to the report, Hamas has set five conditions for the cease-fire:
Sometimes they’re just so cute.
“It’s amazing what the threat of morality will do.”
Indeed.
It points out weakness and stupidity.
Congrats snippy. You win the big stuffed animal at this Carnival.
Try not to hump it on the way home.
And at the bottom of the page:
Related articles:
Hamas: We will not accept Israel’s Gaza cease-fire demands
Because everybody knows that B. Hussein Obama (PBUH) will come to Hamas’ rescue on Wednesday? Whatever it is yer smoking ‘snip, I hope you brought enough for everyone, because I’m betting O! votes “present” on this one.
Oh, he’ll give a beautiful speech, but talk is cheap, a lesson soon to be learned by those expecting more than just talk from our jug-eared Jesus.
On. The. Fucking. Nose. BMoe.
parsnip, you just got Beck’d.
Baracky doesn’t need anymore pets just at the moment I don’t think. He’s still housebreaking his media.
“He’s still housebreaking his media.”
Ha ha, one peed on the rug…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090116/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_interrogations
“Comment by parsnip on 1/16 @ 3:41 pm #
I’m not a big fan of Hamas”
Yes you are, you lying Jew hater.
Looks like they’ve given Pamela Hess a minder, Lamont.
“Comment by parsnip on 1/16 @ 7:32 pm #
The IDF artillery shells are only accurate to two or three times the length of a football field.”
HAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!11!!!!elevnty!!!
Oh, alfie. You. Are. So. Fucking. Stupid.
You know, I want to get pissed when he says shit like this, but it is so mind-numbingly retarded I can’t help but laugh.
Come Tuesday, Hamas will control all of gaza B Moe.
After 7 years and hundreds of billions of wasted dollars, what percentage of Afghanistan do we control?
10% maybe?
If we’re being generous.
I don’t get how Afghanistan relates exactly. You want we should put Hamas in charge of Afghanistan? I’m intrigued.
Gaza must be a big place.
Lots of mountain there too. Nothing like Iraq.
I wonder how they overcome the cultural differences.
“Come Tuesday, Hamas will control all of gaza B Moe.”
Snippy, you’re putting a pretty heavy weight on some awful narrow shoulders.
I’m guessing you grade failure on a “sliding scale.”
Obama will hit the “Panic Button” around…next Thursday.
Then he’ll jump on the Hillary Clinton – foreign policy poop shoot and beg for mercy.
“Gaza must be a big place.”
I hear the Hot Topic in Gaza Square is where all the cool martyrs hang out.
The Limp Bizkit t-shirts are in the back isle, right beside the black light posters…across from the JDAM crater (which is in the IDF/ Guns & Roses section).
I remember Alphie/parsnip from the old CQ blog. Must be he/she/it just loves getting slapped around.
Good times.
#16 – and Forward Movement, and here and Pattericos… I think a new hobby for it is in order.
er, #136 that is.
Impressed by those massive territorial gains by HAMAS since 27 December?
“The IDF artillery shells are only accurate to two or three times the length of a football field.â€Â
Wow, just wow. Does it hurt to be that self-assuredly stupid? Because it’s painful from here.
#140 – quite. But remember, he does have an awful lot of FO experience which to draw from. As well as direct observation of the IDF when he was in UNFIL…
Hmm… so modern Israeli artillery is vastly less accurate than, say, the guns that the English used used to reduce French castles in the Hundred Years’ War? And what about all those ships of the line that went to Davy Jones’ Locker, back in the age of sail? Lucky hits, I guess?
I thought those Jews were smart?
I sometimes miss the entertaining portions of nipply’s stupidity, but it’s not really worth wading through the parts that are simply annoying.
I realize the boy heroes assembled aren’t going to admit just how inaccurate the modern “precision” weapons they fire into civilian populations are.
The cocoon…maintain it at all costs.
mmm hmmm, and how’s that $30,000 behemoth that is J Street doing for ya?
Said Siyam could not be reached for comment.
also unavailable… Abu Zakaria al-Jemal.
Nizar Rayan remains strangely silent…
#140
I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone who was so adamantly opposed to reason. Almost as if the physical world did not exist.
A computer model perhaps?
tuberhead apparently shares thor’s view that getting punched in the face, repeatedly, is a sign of victory.
“The IDF artillery shells are only accurate to two or three times the length of a football field.”
We’re supposed to believe you’ve ever had the sack to step on (and measure) a football field?
Ha!
And yards?
I’m pretty sure the IDF kills jihadis on the metric system.
A computer model perhaps?
Vitamin H deficiency, I’d say.
Said Siyam
Abu Zakaria al-Jemal
Nizar Rayan
While all are unavailable for comment, their carbon footprint has been reduced to zero.
It’s all about Gaia maggie.
Yes; beyond that, they can’t even hit the ground. True fact; ask Dr. Science if you don’t believe me.
Also, the shells they launch are basically firecrackers, so even if they did land on someone, they’d maybe make their ears ring for a couple of hours, at worst.
If you’re being deliberately stupid, parsnip: bravo. If not, my condolences, and we’ll note just one more category of things that you know less than nothing about.
Yes, we make weapons that are targeted specifically to civilian populations, alpo. In the words of Joe Piscopo: It shoots through schools.
Oh, almost forgot: as a dumbass, I think you’ve found something you can excel at. Stick with it.
The “boy hero” cocoon.
*looks around*
This cocoon is nice. Has a full bar, leather couches, DSL, a big screen TV, a stripper pole, hand guns, a pizza oven AND a waffle iron.
Damn!…This joint is fuckin’ alright!
Nearly three centuries, but otherwise you’re doing a bangup job. Not that alpo is going to listen, either way.
Still waiting on a picture of a Hamas military installation, tuberhead.
Is it rich Corinthian leather?
Because if it is, I’m so there.
There was one operating within LOS of a UN installation in Lebanon, IIRC. Remember when the UN razed it to the ground? That was awesome!
“Still waiting on a picture of a Hamas military installation, tuberhead.”
Here ya go Slartibart…
http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/91175
“Is it rich Corinthian leather?”
No, it’s naugahyde (this is a PW “boy hero cocoon,” not exactly fine tailored like Ron Burgundy’s apartment).
We were just lucky to get the DSL and the pizza oven.
Shhhh…don’t rock the boat.
But you can refer to parsnip as Baxter if you want.
Talk about “bubbles”!
You need to hunt the person down who told you that, and sanction them with extreme sanctions. It’s a lie, a whole lie, and nothing but a lie.
The military doesn’t like people talking about exact numbers, but for ordinary unassisted artillery operating at Israel-to-Gaza distances you can divide those numbers by something between five and ten, five for the first couple of shots, ten once they have the range and weather conditions dialed in. Terminal guidance moves the decimal point one place to the left, more or less. This is not to say there are never screwups, but they are screwups, not intentional “targeting”.
Regards,
Ric
The mortars Hamas are using have a range of 6-8 km. Which, doing a units conversion for our resident know-it-none, is roughly 4-5 miles. Or, to make the point more succinctly, 65-90 football fields.
I mean, I can make you a slingshot that will throw a mortar shell a couple of hundred yards.
How stupid can alpo be? Be sure to tune in next week for more!
“I mean, I can make you a slingshot that will throw a mortar shell a couple of hundred yards.”
Goliath: “No bullshit. He’s right. The Jews can totally do that slingshot thing. Trust me.”
Goliath: “No bullshit. He’s right. The Jews can totally do that slingshot thing. Trust me.â€Â
LMAO.
Do those rockets that Hamas is firing into Israel even have guidance or aiming capabilities?
The ones I’ve seen in pictures look like they’re made out of plumbing pipe with some fins welded on.
Not likely that they have laser ring guidance systems.
But then, if your goal is simply to kill a Jew, any Jew, it doesn’t really matter, does it?
I see what you did there Ric.
Called in rounds on target & then fired for effect.
No “football fields” needed.
Well played, sir.
#167 – this is exactly what I was talking about needing some warning… that is good stuff. Ow.
er, #165 that is.
Qassams are unguided, as are the Grad and WS-1. They’re basically rocket-powered artillery.
According to what I just read in the Wikipedia article, the Qassam isn’t even spin-stabilized, and the nozzles are made with a drill rather than a lathe.
Precision.
“Do those rockets that Hamas is firing into Israel even have guidance or aiming capabilities?”
I dunno. They’re made out of Iranian insecurity, Jew hatred, Semtex, and parts from an imported (knock off) Fisher Price Etch-A-Sketch.
Don’t take it out on the goat snippy. It’s not his fault.
#172
Basically Civil War ,(ours) technology. Even the A4 was an uguided ballistic missle. I could explain here how to make the propellent, but I don’t want to give idle hands an ideas. The most sophisticated part of those rockets are the detonator. A block of wood with a nail and a primer in it.
The actual math for figuring a rocket engine nozzle is more involved than I’m used to dealing with. The execution without expensive CNC equipment takes patience and skill. Something lacking in the current Gaza residents.
You don’t actually need math for a rocket nozzle. Go watch (or read) October Sky; they basically used a hardened washer, for a while, until they figured out the whole nozzle thing. It’s a question of efficiency more than workability.
Propellant is actually pretty easy, even if you’re not smart. Mix zinc and sulfur in molar proportions, plus a binding agent, and add an initiator. Doesn’t have to be elaborate.
There are other, better ways to do it, but there are all kinds of ways to do it badly.
“I realize the boy heroes assembled aren’t going to admit just how inaccurate the modern “precision†weapons they fire into civilian populations are.”
So why does Hamas keep doing it?
Ah, I see the Qassam is propelled by candy. That’s one of the easier solids to make, and it sets up nicely.
The Chinese were using unguided rockets ‘way back, and as Rusty points out got limited use in our Civil War, but all the modern examples are descendants of the WWII German Nebelwerfer (“Cloud-splitter”). They are used where you have a big target — a column of droves of enemy troops, a caserne or encampment — and you (a) don’t really care which rocket hits where and (2) want to scare the shit out of the Other Guys. The Germans took note of the effect on enemy troops of the scream produced by the holes in the drag panels of the Stuka — which was purely fortuitous at first — and applied the same principle to the Nebelwerfer. The result is visually and aurally spectacular, pretty much guaranteed to make the targets shit their pants until they realize that it’s much more noise than effect.
The ones Hamas, Hizb’Allah, etc. use are mostly either Russian S-3 through S-8 unguided rockets or descendants/modifications thereof, though the Qassam, specifically, is a simplified version that can be made by dumbasses without access to real machine tools. I doubt it’s true today, but when I was a high-schooler any male and most of the females could have built a Qassam from a verbal description, given the funds for the materials. They are used on what I call the “Black Cat” principle.
When I was growing up, the giant packets of firecrackers with the fuses all woven together were considered a waste. We would take them apart into individual units, then combine them for the power level desired. That’s what Hamas and Hizb’Allah do. The rockets they fire are intended to be fired in a mass, twenty to fifty at a time, to keep the enemy’s head down. They can’t afford to do that, so they shoot ’em off one at a time. That’s why the Israelis were able to put up with it for so long — it’s just that they finally noticed that they’d gotten the equivalent of an MLRS broadside, but dispersed over time rather than over space.
Regards,
Ric
you can divide those numbers by something between five and ten
In other words, the IDF aims at a 50-foot wide apartment building, it’s only got, at best, a 50-50 chance of hitting it.
And a 50-50 chance of hitting a neighboring apartment building.
Or school.
Or hospital.
And that’s under the very best of conditions.
As I said…close enough for government work.
You should tell your Hamas buddies about this, tuber. They probably wouldn’t hide in those places if they knew they were putting their families at risk like that.
That’s about right, monky.
Of course it must be remembered that Hamas, Hizb’Allah, the Palestinian Arabs in general have available to them an absolute, guaranteed 100% effective defense against Israeli attacks. Can you guess what it might be?
Regards,
Ric
I see via Tim Blair that the number of toys launched by Hamas is taking a distinct downward turn.
yeah, if Hamas really cared about their people, their leaders would move away from the civilian population and build a mile high dirt berm and a balloon fence around them. murderers.
Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions for a reason, Ric.
I remember when the Republicans were the moral party.
yes, Hamas should stop firing from civilian areas and maybe try to actually aim their rockets at non-civilian targets.
The rules are these:
1) It’s perfectly ok for Hamas to use really crappy artillery because, after all, they’re basically firecrackers and can’t hurt anyone.
2) Israel is evil, evil, evil for using even more accurate weapons in retaliation against Hamas.
3) The US must not supply Israel with precision-guided weapons because of Israel’s evilness, and because Israel would use them to even more accurately shoot through schools.
I remember when parsnip argued intelligently.
No, my mistake; that was someone else.
Who says it’s collective punishment? Looks like counterbattery fire to me.
There’s something else in there that’s against the Geneva Conventions, parsnip. Bet you can’t figure out what it is.
Hint: something about hiding your troops and such amongst civilians.
and when did Hamas sign the Conventions? I’m just curious.
Is there maybe a cram course on the Geneva Conventions for new governments? I bet Hamas skipped it.
I wuvs me da innernuts.
Sure is. Now, what you need to do is identify the people committing that offense and bring them to justice.
Hint: none of them speaks Hebrew as a first language.
Shooting at a military target that has been deliberately co-located or shielded with noncombatants is not “collective punishment” under the Geneva Conventions. You need to read what the Conventions actually say, rather than depending on your simplistic “Americans and Jews have to be nice” version, which does not resemble the actual Conventions in any way.
But there has been a multiply-repeated example of “collective punishment” in the Middle East in the last years. Can you identify it?
Regards,
Ric
topic shift in 5… 4… 3…
BUNNIES?
Hint: something about hiding your troops and such amongst civilians.
According to tuberhead Hamas isn’t doing that, which is why I have been asking for photos of a Hamas military installation.
Hmmm. My linky failed. Maybe this one?
Ric:
I’m anot an artillery person, but someplace like Gaza, that is small and likely been thoughly mapped, would be a gunner’s paradise. The Israelis likely know exactly where their guns are, and with GPS the FO knows where he is. Add in decent optics/laser range finders, and the target area is known to the smallest grid-square. The artillery dials in that grid square, compensates for weather and tube wear (which was done during WWI – another gunner’s war) and the first salvo is going to fall right on target. Tube artillery is notoriously accurate.
At Cape Matapan the British battleships closed to 3,500 meters and their first salvos landed on target, popping those Italian cruisers open like rotten tomatos.
What the hell. It’s on this page. You can’t get there directly from here.
Wind dispersion is a function of ballistic coefficient and probably some other things like CG imbalance and spin rate. A non-spinning mortar round is going to be much less accurate than rifled battleship guns, and crosswinds would likely take it a little further off-target.
I remember when the Democrats were the party of slavery.
I remember when the Democrats were the party of secession.
I remember when the Democrats were the party pf segregation.
Slart, if a site disables hotlinking, often just adding a space to the end of the URL is enough to make it work.
http://members.tripod.com/~JB5252/johnnydangerously/88magnum.wav
Try copying the text and pasting it into a new browser window/tab, but add a space to the end.
OT but also via Tim Blair: the Joe Biden commemorative plate.
Most of the IDF artillery I have seen has been a bit more advanced than mortars.
http://www.imemc.org/attachments/jun2008/israeli_tanks_at_the_gaza_strip_borders__file_2007_1.jpg
I remember when the Democrats were the party of socialism.
Much tube artillery is rifled, the shell having a band of soft metal to give it a spin as it flies; smoothbore tube artillery uses fin-stabilized rounds. IIRC, most mortar rounds have fixed fins to provide the spin, and other tube artillery uses shells that have fins that are deployed after the round leaves the tube (such as a sabot round used by tanks). Arrows have fletches for the same reason
Factory manufactured artillery rounds are made to be accurate and are.
On the other side of falling Qassam & Grad launch numbers, I’ve been watching for Ham-ass to begin using their (rumored) anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles in increasing numbers as an indicator to the end of hostilities. I had supposed from the outset that they wouldn’t be firing them willy-nilly, as these relatively sophisticated, expensive weapons would be the best chance Ham-ass would have at killing Israeli troops (see 2006 Hezbollah conflict). In addition, I also thought they would reserve many of the anti-tank missiles for close defense of their leaders hiding out in Hospitals (and still do). I hadn’t noted any such use through the first couple of weeks but it seems over the last few days that a couple of tanks have been hit with casualties. IDF wisely doesn’t publicize enemy weapons and their effects, so it’s hard to tell from outside the conflict exactly what is being used and how it’s used. Nevertheless, with the appearance of these recent reports I’m beginning to wonder whether the IDF may not be closing in on Ham-ass upper echelon in their hospital bunkers.
“Close to achieving our goals” says Barak. Even without a list of those goals, I’d guess that killing or capturing I. Haniyeh and M. Zahar might be part of the ticket to a ceasefire.
brilliant Spies … Ff didn’t like it but the Microsoft one brought it right up.
Sdferr:
That is something I was wondering about. I can speculate and here it is: The better weapons were not in the open areas and are still in hiding, Hamas wanting to retain them as long as possible as a ‘force in being’; the better weapons were in known caches and have been secured or destroyed and no one is saying anything about it yet for obvious reasons (Hamas doesn’t want to say how bad it has been hurt, the IDF doesn’t want to say how successful their prior intelligence was); the better weapons were already deployed, but due to IDF countermeasures and poor training/coordination on the Hamas side they were ineffective; they were deployed and were effective but Hamas doesn’t know and they IDF isn’t saying; they never existed in the first place.
My best guess is that they did exist, they are not being used. For Hamas to claim a ‘victory’ they have to have something once the IDF decides to stop. To have an undestroyed cache allows the claim – sort of like a football team saying ‘we didn’t lose by that much!’.
For Israel, seriously degrading Hamas without many casualties is a victory, but not a big one. It does give them some maneuvering room and has provided a demonstration. Not knowing what Israel’s goals were I can only speculate.
#176
A proper nozzle takes a lot of complex math even for a solid propellent rocket. it’s always a trade off between performance and longevity.
Oh’ Great! Now even the trolls can make rocket fuel.
To err is human, parsnip. It looks to me like your claim of lack of IDF accuracy is one of these human occasions.
Yet it’s beautiful to behold the response from PW’s Duuuuuh Squadron. You must have made them quake with tears else why would they jump your shit so hard. Congrats on the emotional pain you have up to now so obviously inflicted on the forsaken r-wingered extremists, parsnip.
Seriously, I cried myself to sleep last night, truth be told.
I’m still chuckling, a little. parsnip is giving thor some serious competition for most outrageously asinine troll.
no, no, according to parsnip it’s tewtelly on purpose. but you go ahead and defend Hamas’ actions with him.
Now that Israel has committed to a unilateral ceasefire in place, with a withdrawal dangled as a possibility should rocket-fire from Gaza into Israel end, will Hamas and IJMP have the sense to stop firing rockets and mortars (even if only for a few weeks) long enough to see an Israeli withdrawal come about? Somehow I doubt it but stranger things have happened, so we’ll see. That they will resume again eventually, I have no doubt at all.
#217
banana
jar
monkey
Not bloody likely
No soap radio.
Sdferr: …will Hamas and IJMP have the sense to stop firing rockets and mortars (even if only for a few weeks) long enough to see an Israeli withdrawal come about? Somehow I doubt it…
You are correct, sir!
What will a unilateral cease-fire without conditions or a withdrawal do? Perhaps permit targets that have gone to ground be reaquired? To allow consolidation and clearing of occupied areas?
We will see.