November 13, 2008

No worries on Compulsory Civil Service, folks: “Obama’s Call for Community Service Is Not Marxism”

Michelle Catalano, writing for Pajamas Media, explains:

Is community service synonymous with slavery? Whether that service is mandated or suggested, could it in any way be construed as enslaving citizens? This week, an acquaintance noted the “irony” that college students would be required by a black president to do community service. She then pointed out the 13th Amendment.

There were two things wrong with this statement. First, by the time she wrote it, it was already old news that Obama had backtracked on his mandatory community service requirement for students. The newer wording on the change.gov website:

The Obama administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

The other thing wrong with the woman’s quote — and the contention of some bloggers — is the equivalence of community service to slavery. One of these things is not like the other.

True. Jumping jacks would take the place of whips; and the barracks would be nicely appointed.

Apples and oranges!

There are thousands upon thousands of high school and college students, as well as adults, doing some form of community service right now. Service to your community is an altruistic thing; it is a way of perhaps giving back to a community that has given to you. It is a way to reach out to a community, to help others who may not be as fortunate as you, to teach young adults about sharing, caring, and helping others, to do something out of the goodness of your heart that will benefit your community. This is not slavery. This is not forced labor. This is outreach. It represents values. Slavery is an act that benefits no one but the person who owns the slave; community service benefits both the giver and receiver and helps make the world a better place and leaves a general good feeling for everyone involved. It is not comparable to slavery.

Question: if, as Catalano points out, there are already ” thousands upon thousands of high school and college students, as well as adults, doing some form of community service right now,” why the need to organize it into a state bureaucracy?

Why the need to enforce, either by making it compulsory or by making those less fortunate who cannot afford college tuition take up the mantle of mandated charity that the more fortunate can eschew, “altruism”? And, if it is coerced, how does it come to count as altruism in the first place?

More, by what scientific measure, other than a steady diet of Oprah and new age bargain books from Borders, can Catalano prove that “community service benefits both the giver and receiver and helps make the world a better place and leaves a general good feeling for everyone involved”? Are those who it doesn’t benefit, or whom it makes miserable, somehow defectives? Should something be done to “fix” them — until they get the “proper” fillip of joy from cleaning up the garbage at parks that, once it becomes clear that we have a civilian force to do such things, will make it more likely that people just dump shit wherever they please?

Catalano’s entire argument, in fact, is built on a foundation of the most low-grade straw: the question here is not whether community service is admirable or useful (it can be, but it need not necessarily be so, from the perspective of motive); the question is, why should someone be compelled to engage in tasks that people like Catalano and Obama have determined are admirable or useful — and does not that compulsion remove the the charitable impulse that makes those kinds of sacrifices to the community admirable and useful, from a “values” standpoint, in the first place?

I said it earlier and I’ll repeat it here: confiscating liberty in the name of teaching people “what it means to be an American” is Orwellian in spirit, in that it essentially argues that in order to celebrate liberty and freedom, we must be willing to surrender liberty and freedom.

Continues Catalano:

There are already many high schools in the United States which require community service credit for graduation. Some schools require seniors to complete a project that includes some form of community outreach

— she says that as if it’s a good thing —

Obama would encourage a goal of 50 hours of community service for high school students. That’s 50 hours over the course of a year, hours that could be spent cleaning up a park, reading to the elderly, working in a soup kitchen, assisting developmentally disabled children, delivering meals, collecting clothing for shelters, or working with local community programs like Kiwanis. There are myriad ways in which the youth of America can get involved with their surrounding communities, providing a give and take that benefits both the student and the community at large.

Or, more likely, it will create a vast new bureaucracy whose job it is to watch over these 25 million or so new community “volunteers” — and 20 million or so rebels who will do whatever they can to undermine what they will rightly see as an infringement on their liberties, and a way to force someone else’s value system on them at the expense of their time and choices.

The upshot will of course be revolt, and so the end result will that those who embrace the program will spend time cleaning up after those who try to undermine it from within.

The great irony here is that the very same people who have for years mocked the religious community — those who provide the bulk of real charitable work — for their supposed desire to force their morals on us, see nothing at all similar in their plan to engineer a society in which everyone (well, except for the sons and daughters of the rich, who’ll get a deferment, should they so desire — or, more likely, assume a “leadership role” in the Obama Youth Corp) is compelled by circumstance to be “altruistic.”

Or rather, to perform the function of altruism — even if their hearts are filled with resentment at their own dreams deferred.

On the college level, Obama’s plan would ensure a $4,000 tuition credit to students who complete 100 hours of community service a year. With the cost of college education soaring, that $4,000 is like a windfall to a college student. The student would be rewarded monetarily, but the reward of completing service toward the community is something that will stay with them, as well as the community, forever. Service to others is a lasting gift.

Says Obama. And Michele Catalano.

And perhaps it will “stay with them.” But in what capacity? And at what expense?

No, the real question that needs answering here is who died and made Obama or Michele Catalano arbiter of what constitutes a “lasting gift”? Why does Michele Catalano presume to speak for those who have every right to run their lives as they see fit — not in the way some preening secular moralists dictate they must?

And what of all those students who already engage in charitable work, through churches, or other organizations? Are they to surrender that time in order to oblige the state? And if so, is not the state by force adopting charity as its own function?

Further, why is cleaning a park, or teaching someone to read, eg., more “valuable” than, say, entrepreneurship that leads to the creation of jobs? Or the pursuit of art? Or the desire to begin a family?

And why on earth would Michele Catalano presume to make that determination?

[…]

It’s interesting how many right-leaning blogs are frowning upon the community service idea, though some are being thoughtful about it. Generally, people on the political right tend to belong to churches, and churches are big proponents of community service. So why the negativity? Many blogs are also equating Obama’s community service pitch with Rahm Emanuel’s:

When you choose to serve — whether it’s your nation, your community, or simply your neighborhood — you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That’s why it’s called the American dream.

This is not socialism. This is not Marxism. This is the mark of a country that knows it needs to rely on those who can to help those who can’t. It’s the mark of a country that knows it needs to depend on its citizens to make their communities flourish. It’s taking the “ask not what your country can do for you” attitude and transforming it into smaller clusters, where we ask what we can do for those we live with and around, instead of waiting for people to do for us. It’s how communities become stronger, how they grow, and how a strong, giving community makes for a strong, giving nation.

And if you don’t happen to agree with such sentiments — or believe you have your own ways of expressing them and “giving back” — why, then you are a bad person, I guess. Or at the very least, someone who stands opposed to the “American Dream” as it has been resignified by an Alinsky disciple and one-time member of the New Left.

Similarly, if the kind of community service being alluded to were met with a commensurate and aggressive pruning of federal programs already designed to meet such needs — programs already funded by our tax money, and so our labor — and what we’re talking about was an actual return to tight-knit communities who could engage in their own kinds of consensual self-determination, the points Catalano makes might ring less hollow.

As it stands, though, what is on offer here is a lot of lofty rhetoric in the service of a rather baldfaced attempt to shame (note who gets labeled “thoughtful” by Catalano) — which is fine, so long as the power of the state doesn’t stand behind such a campaign to bully people into buying into its idea of what is “proper” for members of a given community.

Some people want to retire alone and tend their gardens. That is their right. Or at least, it is supposed to be.

Instead, the new moral majority has come along to tell us how we need to serve our communities, and will even provide the bureaucracy to ensure that it is done.

For our own good.

That’s not how a country built around the idea of individual freedom and choice is built to operate. In fact, the old line, “the only thing I have to do is live, die, and pay taxes,” should be recycled as the new outlaw motto — with the bit about taxes amended to include something about those taxes being both fair and not punitive.

Community service is not a dirty word; nor is it an idea to be tossed aside because you don’t like who is delivering the message about it. Encouraging our youth to take part in something selfless is encouraging them to be better human beings. What could be better for this country?

Howsabout choice. Freedom. Self-determination. The ability to resist what the government thinks is in our “best interests” in terms of shaping our “values.”

And a vast public uprising that lets Obama, and Rahm, Catalano, and those like her know that, as Americans, we can decide for ourselves when and how it is appropriate — if ever — to “give back to the community.”

Because frankly, it ain’t their call, and it never should be.

Posted by Jeff G. @ 12:00pm
233 comments | Trackback

Comments (233)

  1. Michelle Catalano? That sounds like an awesome comfort woman name I think. She’ll have a leg up. Baracky’s Yoot get all worked up after a hard day of … well they just get all worked up is all.

  2. Obama&friends, let me put in a way you people will understand. My body, my choice, you liberal, Marxist pieces of s***.

  3. And how, pray tell, do they intend to enforce a damn bit of this shit? Are they going to lock 16 year-olds up for not picking up trash in their work crews? Do they actually expect the police to enforce this?

  4. damn- they are going full speed ahead!
    he ain’t even inaugg-god-duh yet!
    i give ‘em credit tho/ if we had anyone on our side who had a toes worth of their audacity/drive/ don’t give a fuck attitude
    we’d be in the game
    instead
    this little piggie went whee whee whee all the way …
    btw- could u put the coke machine and maybe a machine with some real snacks in it back in student community center
    like the ones they got in the teachers lounge

  5. What the hell happened to Michelle Catalano? Didn’t she used to write at A Small Victory?

    Wasn’t she normal at some point?

  6. It appears that there’s a runaway strong tag somewhere out there … or the CSS file has gone round the bend … or JeffG just hearts teh bold because it’s OUTLAW. ;)

  7. Whoops. Browser bug I guess. Ignore me.

  8. If I may be so bold as to mention that…….uhhhh……..somebody left a bold tag. Evidently.

    Also I’d like to mention that civil disobedience is the the new dissent which is kinda like the old patriotism. Hygiene is still optional.

  9. Jeff. Give your head a shake and get with the program. “Choice” is about killing your mistakes not what you do with your time. Freedom is about how best to Obamafy the world.

  10. Scratch that boldness shit. Fixed.

  11. a bridge too far lefties. be careful what you wish for.

  12. I just find it odd that they want to shred the Constitution to create a work force that will do hundredfold more mischief than it will ever do to benefit anyone. They just want to get it in your head early on that they run your life. I’m sorry, but this isn’t even a difference of opinion anymore. This is just evil.

  13. That’s 50 hours a year they could be working for a paycheck, which they could use to buy clothes or food or books or even sneakers.

    (I’m skeptical that anyone from a “failing inner-city school” will be spending 50 hours a year doing unpaid menial labor like “cleaning up parks” or “collecting clothing for shelters”. 55% drop-out rate in Milwaukee–kids don’t show up to hang out all day, what makes anyone think they’re going to show up to do unpaid work?

  14. A fine scotch: Indeed, this is the same woman. I quit reading when she closed that site, and haven’t read her since all that much, so I have no idea how the turnaround occurred.

  15. Slavery is an act that benefits no one but the person who owns the slave; community service benefits both the giver and receiver and helps make the world a better place and leaves a general good feeling for everyone involved. It is not comparable to slavery.

    By Michelle’s definition, there was never a trans-Atlantic slave trade, since, had they not been turned into chattel by other tribes, those enslaved would have been slain out of hand. Thus, they benefited by keeping their lives, thus turning a horrific chapter in history into one of the most oddly run charitable exercises in the history of man.

    No, the real definition is slavery is having no choice over the disposition of your time. Which is what compulsory labor is, no matter what euphemism you slap on it.

    To paraphrase one of the greatest Americans, whenever I hear any one arguing for compulsory community service, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

  16. Oh. And it’s likely Catalano was paid for this piece.

    Those of you who missed my fundraiser and would like to fight that allocation of resources, feel free to hit my tip jar. I want to buy some ammo and a gun safe.

  17. Who will determine which projects constitute “community service”?

  18. I expect Michelle to be first in line to “volunteer”.

  19. “Who will determine which projects constitute “community service”?”

    Whoever bribes the right pol.

  20. Who will determine which projects constitute “community service”?

    Oh, that’s easy. Just look at who got funding from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

  21. There are already many high schools in the United States which require community service credit for graduation. Some schools require seniors to complete a project that includes some form of community outreach

    I guess a youngster could always choose to forego the whole diploma thing. I had to design and complete a fairly complex community service project in order to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout. Best I recall though, I wasn’t forced by the feds to become an Eagle Scout. If Uncle Sugar would’ve hooked me up with $4000 in college tuition in exchange for that shit though, I might’ve not procrastinated quite as badly.

  22. I cannot see how they can explain the idea that making non-defense service mandatory is not in violation of the constitution. They only care about some parts of the constitution and prefer to ignore the parts that get in the way of their high ideals.

    I believe the classical liberal must be in favor of upholding the entire constitution, even the parts that might get in their way. And if parts do get in their way, it’s a time for some introspection; perhaps whatever they were proposing wasn’t such a hot idea after all.

    OUTLAW!

  23. “The student would be rewarded monetarily, but the reward of completing service toward the community is something that will stay with them, as well as the community, forever. Service to others is a lasting gift.”

    Plus an extra added bonus of a raise in their tuition.

    By, ooooooh, about $4,000.

  24. Freedom of choice
    Is what you got
    Freedom from choice
    Is what you want

  25. Cash is in the mail, Jeff. I’m a bad mail sender. It’s one of my “issues.”

  26. I cannot see how they can explain the idea that making non-defense service mandatory is not in violation of the constitution.

    Forty years ago, the same people were arguing that the draft was immoral.

  27. You want to graduation rates go up?

    Make a high school diploma a requirement for social services.

  28. I’m in on the ammo fund.

  29. “We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name – liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names – liberty and tyranny.”

  30. …high ideals…

    Again, giving away the game before it has begun.

  31. You could have them clean up their own schools and cancel custodial service.

    Oh, wait. That’s union work.

    Never mind.

  32. you know what the best part will be? getting to meet the overseers in meatspace.

  33. I’m with those that are also equally puzzled that this is the same Michelle Catalano that used to run A Small Victory.

    What it exposes unfortunately is that folks such as her, and Buckley and Brooks and the other pseudo-conservatives, were frauds all along and never really believed in the core fundamentals of liberty and conservativism.

    I say fuck ‘em and don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. The sooner the ranks can be purged of the frauds the sooner we can get back to rebuilding the brand name.

  34. For the college students who are expected to pay their own way, or at least part of it, this represents a compelling opportunity, a job which pays $40/hour directly to your school (with a $4k cap of course). I would expect the numbers who will participate in this plan to be at or higher than those who are now getting some sort of public/private assistance for tuition. I expect then, that this program will be extremely expensive to the American taxpayer, not to mention the cost to the GDP as those work hours are diverted. Which is not necessarily a horrible thing if the eventual returns on the GDP exceed the outlay. I sort of doubt that will be the case, as graduation rates are around 50% or less of incoming freshman.

    It would be interesting to see all these numbers crunched for a strictly economic look at the plan. The price in liberty is a cost of a different sort.

  35. Will the New Order’s Young Pioneer program allow a Conscientious Objector status? What happens to those AWOL, or “deserters”? Who will do the 3 months training? What is to be taught? Does one really need 3 month’s training to pick up trash? There are many, many questions that need answering. I believe the new Obama Brownshirts will be nothing more than a Sturmabteilung in funky leftist garb.

  36. For those of you asking who will enforce the program and determine what constitutes the correct type of “community service” I can tell you. It would be the benighted teachers unions.

    It’s almost like there’s some kind of plan here. An overarching mentality or something.

  37. This reads like a defense of the Hitler Youth. Replace community service with Hitler Youth or service in the Hitler Youth, replace the singular use of the word community with Fatherland, and community outreach with show of patriotism and it is easy to see. Do you figure she wrote this piece of filth with a straight face?

  38. I’ve had the opportunity to watch Americorps “volunteers” “working” alongside real volunteers with a well-known national charity. The difference in attitude and motivation couldn’t have been starker.

  39. Will there be an official song and stuff?

  40. Is ‘knob’ polishing going to be counted as community service? Please, just consider the nice little Pandora’s Box that out progressive friends want to open for us.

  41. Just another casualty of the cognitive dissonance that’s required in thinking people when they decide to support Obama.

    Meanwhile, those who won’t take, “It’s not involuntary servitude because, er, it’s a good thing they’re being forced to do” for an answer are “wingnuts.”

    Michele, we hardly knew ye.

  42. What the hell happened to Michelle Catalano?

    Hey, it gets PJM page views.

  43. Makewi –
    OT, but I just saw The Alphabet Killer, all shot in Rochester. See it if you can.

    Confusing in a way b/c it takes place in 2001 or so, and they definitely took liberties to make it a psychological thriller/ghost story, but neat in its own way. They shot a lot of it on the west side, like Clifford Ave, Lyell, etc. so really seedy. Plus Webster is wacked the way they did it. Still, you’ll see alot you recognise – Richmond’s is featured, for example.

  44. People forget especially slovenly thinkers like this one Pajama hoochie person that dirty socialists like Baracky and his woman don’t acknowledge a community. They acknowledge communities. Which ones get served you think?

  45. Will I be prescient if I surmise that the ways this service will be employed will be designed to undo parental authority and undermine the religious and ethical values taught in the home?

    LDS and Catholic kids “assigned” to “volunteer” at the AIDS clinic, suburban white kids shipped off to do service at the urban “community center” manned by ACORN-inspired agitators, etc.?

  46. until they get the “proper” fillip of joy

    I only learned the meaning of fillip recently, while perusing my new Wm Buckley lexicon.

    Well done, I say. Well done.

  47. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created to be made equal, that they are endowed by their Creator President with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life tax subsidies for those who the government favors, Liberty freedom to do what you are permitted and the pursuit of Happiness goals the state selects.

    Better be careful about some of the other things Thomas Jefferson said though.

  48. Does that mean I get to burn my draft card?

    So, that entire piece is “compulsory “volunteer” work is good because I said so”?

  49. So, that entire piece is “compulsory “volunteer” work is good because I said so”?

    I believe it amounts to “serving your community is good, so forcing people to serve their community is also good”.

  50. Michele (one L) is right that it’s not slavery. It’s also not volunteerism. And yes, it willturn out to be a nightmare for those who have to ride herd on the sullen youths involved.

  51. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    I hope there’s no mandatory unit dance.

  52. “I believe it amounts to ‘serving your community is good, so forcing people to serve their community is also good’.”

    I so want to hook this bitch up with a service organization with beliefs and attitudes antithetical to her ideals and film it, right until that cartoon light bulb lights up right over her head.

  53. urthshu

    Cool, will do. It doesn’t seem to be playing here in Honolulu yet, so I’ll add it to my list. Yes, I actually keep a list of movies I want to see.

  54. This will benefit charitable organizations in much the same way that forcing wanna-be drop outs has helped to improve the educational system.

  55. “Michele (one L) is right that it’s not slavery”

    Methinks there is a difference between being a slave and slavery in the form of involuntary servitude. Like squares and rectangles, one is the other but the other is not one.

  56. Only good and compliant suburban kids will actually, you know, work. The rest of Obama’s Youth Corps are already in on the joke.

    See, you go into your local ACORN office, community center or church and have the nice lady there sign off on your hours. Of course you don’t do any work. Work is for suckahs. The law is for your enemies.

    I’ve worked in non-profit orgs for many years. The look of incredulity on the faces of the young ones who are told they will have to actually work for the sign-off is predictable and telling. They usually skulk away to find more “sympathetic” bureaucracy.

  57. I disagree Joan. This will actually teach the compliant suburban kids to behave like a cynical, layabout E-3 in any branch of the US Armed Forces. The ones it doesn’t will be fanatical followers of O!

  58. Preview. Would it be so hard to have a preview function?

  59. Aren’t these the same people that complained ‘workfare’ was unconstitutional?

  60. so i says to mt better half
    “honey- do you got any kids?’
    and she replies “not that i know of!”
    and we laugh and laugh

  61. Not Marxism. It is actually the return of the feudal corvée.

  62. I guess my question for you in the end is:

    How will you American believers in liberty deal with this? Will you write blog posts while it happens to you?

  63. I volunteer to drive to the internment temperature zone otherwise known as the gulag state of Colorado where I further volunteer to remove the grill cover from a BBQ’er before I toss freshly roadkilled armadillo steaks I collected on the way atop glowing charcoal briquettes.

    Equal armadillo portions for all who are hungry! Gold coins and freemarket bullshit rejected!

  64. Now I firmly believe that thor is just mentally ill. Or terminally unfunny.

  65. I wonder what will happen if a parent refuses to send their child on an assignment on safety grounds. Or on ANY grounds.

  66. Well, obviously if you refuse to let your child be voluntold, you’re an unfit parent, and the child must be sent to a foster home and sent to do something REALLY awful. You will be jailed for obviously being a RACIST!!!!!!!

  67. You know, I’m rather certain that if you ever saw the thor – in the flesh – your initial and involuntary reaction would be to laugh hysterically. And your second reaction, upon reflection, would be to pity anything that had engaged in coitus with him.

  68. Michele The Command Post Catalano?
    She was one of the original warbloggers.
    Wow.
    Before my time, but did you know her back then, Jeff?

    Jeff…at what point does the voice crying in the wilderness become the voice of lunacy?

  69. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em – and burrow from within.

  70. michele, one l,
    tries real hard to help us morons see
    no slavery

  71. that is my song what I wrote for our dirty socialist collaborator pajama friend

  72. Just a quick thought, for the portion of Americans with disabilities, are they going to be required to join the Obamacorps? Or will they be sent to another location where they won’t bother anyone.

    Inquiring minds want to know..

  73. The “where do you go from here?” meme continues.

    Jeff….JEFF!!! LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME!!!

    Regards,
    Fatal Attraction Kate

  74. that was altruism, just sos you know

  75. Involuntary servitude includes involuntary servitude for which wages are paid. Every wonder why there are no indentured servants?

  76. Community service is not a dirty word

    No, it’s only a word. But exactly like all the rest of Progressive propaganda memes, whose use is directed solely toward manipulation, the “transformative” means and ends of Progressivism itself.

  77. Michele changed right around the same time Ilyka (am I missing a letter in there?) changed, although Michelle hasn’t completely lost her nut as Ilyka has.

  78. The government cannot conscript my civilian labor. Period.

  79. #52: I hope there’s no mandatory unit dance.

    Or cadence calling.

  80. The “where do you go from here?” meme continues.

    Last time she was doing that, it was with a strong dose of the bandwagon appeal: “hey, all these people are doing it!”

  81. Jeff…at what point does the voice crying in the wilderness become the voice of lunacy?

    Hmmm… I think she’s asking for her own benefit.

    Kate — you need help. Serious help. Please, get it.

  82. I’m a giver.

  83. “The student would be rewarded monetarily, but the reward of completing service toward the community is something that will stay with them, as well as the community, forever. Service to others is a lasting gift.”

    I have an idea, then. Why don’t they force ‘em to do the community service w/o the $4000 tuition? The issue I have is twofold. Service should, of course, be completely voluntary. The whole altruistic dealo only works if you’re not getting anything but warm fuzzies for doing it. Otherwise, as has been mentioned before, it’s called a JOB.

    And, second – the potential for dishonesty (because of the $$) will be enormous.

  84. And, second – the potential for dishonesty (because of the $$) will be enormous.

    On the gripping hand, IT’S NOT GOVERNMENT’S JOB, GODDAMMIT!

  85. And $4,000 “windfall”, my ass. It’s involuntary servitude – it steals time and energy that could be given to other ways of making money, maybe more money, for one. Not to mention a host of other activities a person might choose.

  86. Windfall – noun
    a word I have learned to despise since Barrack Obama started running for President.

  87. I think basic human dignity is part of the opportunity cost there too, SarahW

  88. “And $4,000 “windfall”, my ass. It’s involuntary servitude – it steals time and energy that could be given to other ways of making money, maybe more money, for one. Not to mention a host of other activities a person might choose.”

    And my question is – should anyone dare to apply to college without doing his High School service, and wouldn’t the financial aid department impute the $4,000.00 to the student’s contribution, thus giving the student the choice of service in the Obama Corps or having mom and pops pay out the additional coin, or, perhaps the best option – working to make up the difference?

  89. Maybe this is just much more simple than I think. Maybe he is just trying to pay back his legion of KOS bloggers and astroturfers?

  90. Michele: Get your filthyroberttrivershands off my capital A Altruism, you disgusting individualtists!

  91. Spend 50 hours a semester blogging as a “lifelong Conservative who is pro-Obama” and get 4000 dollars. What could be better than that?

  92. yeah, this sucks.
    i commented on it over there.

  93. Service to others is a lasting gift.

    More like a recurring plague when left to the Commies. Oh, something about the definition of “insanity”…

  94. Jeff…at what point does the voice crying in the wilderness become the voice of lunacy?

    At the point when that voice is wrong on the merits.

    Otherwise it’s called “prophetic.”

  95. I wonder where all the people with the “not in my name” signs went?

  96. In the classic sense, a prophet is not supposed to afflict the merits just because the merits are uncomfortably true.

  97. “I volunteer to drive to the internment temperature zone otherwise known as the gulag state of Colorado where I further volunteer…”

    How about you volunteer to shove twenty M-80’s into each gaping orifice of your body and light them and blow your pretentious dork-ass self into flesh-and-bone shattering oblivion much to the delight of anyone who has ever had to be aware of your existence?

  98. #74: Just a quick thought, for the portion of Americans with disabilities, are they going to be required to join the Obamacorps? Or will they be sent to another location where they won’t bother anyone.

    Maybe they’ll assign us to troll right-leaning blogs to fulfill the service requirement. It requires no physical effort.

    Or mental effort, for that matter.

  99. Maybe they’ll assign us to troll right-leaning blogs to fulfill the service requirement. It requires no physical effort.

    Or mental effort, for that matter.

    Hmmm..That would explain the astroturfers.

  100. I seem to vaguely recall Michelle Obama even saying a while back that Barry was going to be unpopular because he “would make you work”. Foreshadowing? Is that word ok to use now?

  101. #89, that’s pretty much the biggest one, two, Happyfeet.

    I invite Catalano down to Richmond to hear my husband give a talk.

    “it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth. . .”

  102. That a major party politician, let alone the president (elect), can even suggest such a thing that is clearly antiethical to the founding principles of the nation ought to serve as a warning and rallying cry to its citizens that there is something deeply amiss in our political and civil cultures. This is not the America I knew as a child, but I have seen these notions in play elsewhere in the world…to the deep woe of the citizens of those countries.

  103. Oh, why not link the whole thing. Just scroll down half a page real fast . There’s a nasty flashing ad at the top.

  104. You trying to make me angry Moss?

    Mission Accomplished.

  105. I mean cheezit, Michelle C, it’s worth at least a remonstrance or two before handing over our labor to the government.

  106. No, you were right all along! This guy is a sociopath!

  107. I wrote about it <a href=”http://therighttobeararms.info/?p=688″here and actually wound up quoting Rocky Balboa of all people:

    “Friends don’t owe! They do because they wanna do.”

  108. Damned HTML tags!!

    HERE

  109. Jeff…at what point does the voice crying in the wilderness become the voice of lunacy?

    Quod Erat Demonstratum, Kate. Frequently proved and buttessed.

    But fear not, nishi! At least you won’t have a bad photo opportunity older Down’s Syndrome child making the photo pools. Give thanks to Allah for that.

  110. You know what PJM should have done with this piece, and neo-neocon’s piece warning against ODS? Posted a counterpoint piece.

    If only there was a place they could have found such a thing…

  111. PJM needs a real OUTLAW voice for conservatives, Jeff. Where, Oh where…

  112. Jeff if I was you and I heard someone got paid to write this piece of horseshit I would be pretty pissed.

  113. …and further, as response to Michelle’s conclusion, I’d simply note that a proposal needn’t be explicitly “Marxist” to be totalitarian and/or simply bad.

  114. PJM seems to have wandered off the reservation. Why all the apologetics for O!? They posted a crappy Jennifer Rubin article there, as well. I may have to limit my PJM reading to Insty and wretchard.

  115. I’m going to suggest to Gov. Strickland (D-Ohio) that the recently donated air facility in Wilmington (DHL is closing their operations there, eliminating about 6,000 jobs) for the first Midwest re-education camp. Plenty of room, plenty of workforce, infrastructure still intact, airfield to fly in new inmates (I mean re-students), close to the interstate for ground shipping, and good farmland. I see this as a win-win for the entire community, God bless Obama.

  116. You know what PJM should have done with this piece, and neo-neocon’s piece warning against ODS? Posted a counterpoint piece.

    If only there was a place they could have found such a thing…

    Now that makes sense……but you have too many lines and too much of teh crazy for PJM to be interested.
    Their readers don’t have that much attention span, and you really need to rant less and subvert more.
    Cut down the line count, dial down the vitriol, and I’ll put it in their tip window.

  117. And actually that is what PJM traditionally does, isn’t it?
    I don’t read there all that much, but I remember…..the Derb refuting Spencer and also that whacky Discovery Institute guy whose name i forgot.
    Hey…..what happen to Robert Spencer? Did he lose his HotAir gig?

  118. “Comment by JohnAnnArbor on 11/13 @ 12:34 pm #

    Will there be an official song and stuff?”

    Yeah, the Horst Wessel Lied.

  119. kate writes:

    but you have too many lines and too much of teh crazy for PJM to be interested.

    Cut down the line count, dial down the vitriol, and I’ll put it in their tip window.

    The irony: IT BUUUUUUUURNS CUDLIPS!

  120. The irony: IT BUUUUUUUURNS CUDLIPS!

    Where do we go from here?

  121. Where do we go from here?

    Now that all of the children have grown up.

  122. As it turns out, Kate can, in fact, spell. Sort of.

  123. As it turns out, Kate can, in fact, spell. Sort of.

    That doesn’t address the incoherence problem, but you seem like a glass half full kinda guy!

  124. We talked about this on my BTR show today. My co-host and myself have determined that being one of those ODS suffering Black Helicopter Republicans is the best way to be.

    No wonder the GOP/RNC is in trouble…the leadership is too afraid to fight.

    Morons.

  125. The glass is empty, especially if you ain’t in the top 10 percent of the Bell curve or you are born with a genetic defect. We must have strict definitions of humanity, after all.

    Not only is the glass empty you may be hit on the head with the empty glass and carted away.

    FOR THE GUD OV TEH HUMANS EVOLUSHUNS!

  126. Where do we go from here?

    Now that all of the children have grown up.

    And how do we spend our lives if there’s no-one to lend us a hand

    I don’t wanna live here no more, I don’t wanna stay
    Ain’t gonna spend the rest of my life, Quietly fading away

  127. I’m sure someone else has already made this point, but it’s past noon here on the west coast and I’m on my second glass of wine so I can’t be bothered wading through 100+ comments(maybe a volunteer could do it for me?). As I understand it, 100 hours of community service as a college student gets you $4,000 in tuition credit. $40 and hour? Really? If this is any indicator of future economic policy, every cent I own is going into my mattress.

  128. Well, snooper, you know as well as I do that standing up and fighting with anything other than patrician decorum is so … so … Democrat! These discussions need to be avuncular and collegial, preferably held at someplace like The Union League with apple wood paneling and a very, very expensive sifter of brandy and a copy of The Financial Times. Perhaps after these moderate yet challenging discussions we could all retire to the game room for a round of snooker or a few hands of contract bridge with a aromatic Cuban.

    After all it’s not whether you win or lose but how fabulous you look in your custom made Italian suit acquired during your last junket to London.

    Now I’m off for the fox hunt!

  129. kate “the eugenist” nishi, pat “the industrial paint huffer” kelley, neil “kneel” masters

    worlds are colliding! serenity now! buuuuuuttttons!

  130. What I find most disturbing about the PJM article wasn’t so much the article itself. It ws the comments. The pro side just can’t seem to understand why so many people have a problem with this. Over and over the difference between mandatory and voluntary service was brought up, and was met with the text equivalents of blank looks and dull expressions. To have so many fellow counrtymen dead to the fundamental idea of individual liberty is depressing.

  131. kate “the eugenicist” nishi, pat “the industrial paint huffer” kelley, neil “kneel” masters

    worlds are colliding! serenity now! buuuuuuttttons!

    Damn!

  132. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    Swing low, sweet Chari-ty

  133. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    Only a Fool Would Say That — Steely Dan

    Jocko Homo – Devo

    …or perhaps

    The Internationale

  134. I may have to limit my PJM reading to Insty and wretchard.

    The fact that no one even knows I’m a part of the organization is perhaps most depressing of all.

  135. Is this program really compulsive? Because I don’t see a method of compulsion outlined anywhere. Just the $4K college credit bribe. The budgetary impacts of that notwithstanding (although the precedent of the GI bill indicates that that math might be a little complicated), it looks to me like this program is just a method of taking Obama’s big volunteer organization from the election and giving it a direction to run in during his presidency. As far as I can tell, if you’re not thrilled about doing charity work in O’s name, no one can force you. Is that not true? Is there some cause to believe we will be frog-marched down to the nearest soup kitchen by our new Socialist overlords (whom, I for one, am on the record as welcoming)?

  136. Pingback: Fausta’s Blog » Blog Archive » The Mandatory Civil Service Plan

  137. Pingback: is rahm emmanuel serious? | MY Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

  138. Is there some cause to believe we will be frog-marched down to the nearest soup kitchen by our new Socialist overlords

    What’s the matter Gabriel, not down for the “common American experience”?

  139. I’m not against it, it just seems like compulsion is impractical, and therefore unlikely. Also, I haven’t seen any concrete evidence that it’s even planned.

  140. it just seems like compulsion is impractical, and therefore unlikely

    True, if you use a very narrow definition of “compulsion”.

  141. I’m not scared that someone’s going to try to bribe me, if that’s what you mean. The prospect of being offered $4K of my tax dollars back in exchange for a few nights and weekends doesn’t chill me to the bone. Assuming this deal holds true for grad school as well, which I doubt. Otherwise, I guess I’m home free until the retirement corps comes calling, which is likely anytime soon.

  142. Ahem. “Unlikely.” Wishful thinking.

  143. It’s a lot compulsive I think. Baracky just can’t help himself. Dirty socialist jagoff.

  144. I ran this one past my 16 year old daughter and after she observed,”What? You can’t hold it in your hand and just,you know, spend it?” I informed her that it was to be used exclusively for college. To which she further observed,”What if you don’t plan on going to college. Do you just ,like, work for nothing?”.
    She gets it from her mom.

    Gabriel. I don’t know. Maybe he’ll change his mind tomorrow. That guy has a lot of flip flop in him.
    Which goes back to the original observation by our host that the president elect is not a good man. If his policy is good and right and just it will stand on its own merit. If, however, he is trying to hoodwink the electorate, then change policy as soon as his motive is uncovered. $40.00 an hour? jut who is he trying to kid?

  145. How about this, to create the “common experience”.

    You must have 50 hours of initial “boot camp” in high school to graduate, which will also count towards the 40 hours of civil service you need to get a drivers license, and the 10 hours you will need to get the “employment card” needed, along with the social security number, to legally get a job. Loss of personal deduction on form 1040 tax return if you don’t itemize your 20 hours of annual civil service obligation. 100 hours total obligation to get your National Healthcare ID number.

    The police probably won’t come to your door if you opt out, but there are ways an Obamas rule can compel you to, ummm, participate.

  146. “The fact that no one even knows I’m a part of the organization is perhaps most depressing of all.”

    Jeff, we know it, but we consider it rather like Greg Gutfield part of HuffPo. Doesn’t fit in – in a good way. I do like Wretchard, however. Maybe you could steal him someday for the Aradillo Resistance Network?

  147. uh, Armadillo Resistance Network.

  148. I don’t find the “slippery slope” argument very convincing. Onerous requirements breed fraud, the tax and immigration systems prove that. Given that community service, like military service, requires a certain degree of willingness on the part of the participant, the amount of force required to compel involvement would result in a corresponding decrease in the effectiveness/worth of that involvement. So this sort of program is always going to be way more carrot than stick. And the description of it, however vague, from the Obama camp seems to conform to that principle. Whether or not it’s a worthwhile program is a separate issue, but I don’t see any reason yet to think it’s going to warrant a comparison to Hitler Youth.

  149. Also, I haven’t seen any concrete evidence that it’s even planned.

    Outside the blatant statements by Obama and Emanuel?

    What else do you want? Press gangs?

  150. but I don’t see any reason yet to think it’s going to warrant a comparison to Hitler Youth.

    I can dig it. It’s a circle of love.

  151. They’re politicians, they say lots of things. Without a means of compulsion, none of it is really compelling. It’s like whoeveritwas’s idea for mandatory health screenings; you would have to have a pretty active imagination to think that it would get past a Congress that can’t even raise C.A.F.E. standards. If I’m going to wail and gnash my teeth, I’ll need more than a Rahm Emanuel soundbite to get me started. What’s he going to do, send me a fish?

  152. OK, Gabriel, I’ll bite – howzabout “No admission to public universities without serving your time”. Or, if we get our glorious FREE HEALTHCARE THAT IS A RIGHT DONTCHAKNOW – no healthcare for no-participants. That a big enough stick for ya?

  153. They’re politicians, they say lots of things

    Uh huh…and what compelled you to vote for whomever you voted for?

  154. Michelle Catalano was never a conservative. She leaned right temporarily after 9/11, but now with that being a distant memory and her head firmly entrenched up Obama’s ass, she’s back to being a good old fashioned liberal whore.

  155. “Slavery is an act that benefits no one but the person who owns the slave; community service benefits both the giver and receiver and helps make the world a better place and leaves a general good feeling for everyone involved. It is not comparable to slavery.”

    Why is it that these “educated” idiots can’t seem to understand that there is “private” slavery. That was what the South had and was seen the world over till very recently. It is quite rare in the world nowadays.

    Then there is “State” slavery which is quite common, more degrading, more resistant to being changed, and has resulted in 100s of millions of deaths to date. Mostly in the various guises of Socialism both National and International.

    They act like it doesn’t exist because they expect to be the slave masters. Like Mr. “Kneel to Masters” last night.

  156. Okay, Major, that’s some serious stuff. But I’m a frothing, wild-eyed liberal and I would oppose it. As would anyone who thinks that imposing more hurdles to education or healthcare access is good for the country at large. If I can wade into some sentimental hopey/changey feel-good utopianism for a sec here, I’m of the opinion that the amount of people who can read and get flu shots correlates directly with the strength of the nation and the overall quality of life here, so I’m in favor of any practical method of boosting those numbers and opposed to conditioning access on some feel-good program that doesn’t demonstrate results impressive enough to justify its involvement in the equation.

    So yes, that’s an acceptably imposing stick, but that dog don’t hunt. Obama’s just a president, not the Hypnotoad.

  157. “Why is it that these “educated” idiots can’t seem to understand that there is “private” slavery. That was what the South had and was seen the world over till very recently. It is quite rare in the world nowadays.”

    Democrats do like the slavery thing.

  158. Jeff…at what point does the voice crying in the wilderness become the voice of lunacy?

    Did nishifong really just ask that question? Out loud? Here?

    We have long questioned her literacy, it may be time to question her sentience.

  159. “Obama’s just a president, not the Hypnotoad.”

    So was Woodrow “political prisoners” Wilson and Franklin “detention camps” Rossevelt.

  160. Oh, and the Thirteenth Amendment isn’t just about slavery, there is also a little thing about involuntary servitude in there.

    Involuntary servitude is like a really harsh and uncool way of saying compulsory service, according to my dictionary.

  161. The very fact that at one time Obama had it listed as compulsatory (he then changed it, then removed the site altogether) is worrisome enough; that Rahm was calling it compulsory is also worrisome.

    The fact that it may not be required — but that college admissions boards may look at it as one of a number of conditions for acceptance — makes it coercive.

    If Obama is starting to realize how dangerous the mandatory plan was, it is no thanks to articles like Michele’s.

    You don’t need to wail and gnash your teeth, Gabriel. You can sit back, let others do it for you — then, when you’re comfortable that changes have been made to account for the growing outrage — you can pretend to be even handed and unbothered by all the fuss. After all, it’ll take more than the chief of staff’s stated desire for compulsory service to get you going.

    It’s a great gig. Stick with it!

  162. You all argue the finer points. I’m exhausted and want to nap now.

  163. I haven’t seen this issue addressed, but suppose this is mandatory service and then suppose say ten percent of those mandatorily engaged in such ‘service’ commit criminal acts against say the seniors they’re ‘helping’ or commit forcible sexual conduct, theft or other vices during the course of their ‘service’? Does the federal government then become subject to tort liability for failure to properly supervise these tens of millions of individuals whom were conscripted involuntarily into service? That’s another potential cost that has not been addressed to my satisfaction.

  164. This burbled up from a dank deep almost forgotten wellspring of fascism, Mr. Fry, and there’s more einvolkyness where that came from too, you betcha, and this would happen when I am on the cusp of my Peak Earning Years, wouldn’t you know it. Stupid fascists. Nothing for it but to beat them back again and clean up after. It’s just such a waste to have to is all.

  165. What is worrisome is these are things he thinks are good and desirable. Yeah, he might be constrained by little details like the Constitution, but his mindset is geared towards those ends.

    He will do what he can. It’s a good thing he isn’t the leader of a worldwide cult or anything…

  166. I just read a PJM blogger who said all the thoughtful and intelligent conservatives were in the closet…

    So, if you’re conservative you’re either queer or stupid.

    I guess that explains that one night, back when I was in college…

  167. “I just read a PJM blogger who said all the thoughtful and intelligent conservatives were in the closet…”

    Probably in the water closet taking a good …

  168. PJM= Poopey Joke Media

  169. What’s he going to do, send me a fish?

    Gefilte fish.

    Which reminds me, what’s the buffet at the first Emanuel/Ahmadinejad meeting?

  170. Or was I thinking of the Over/Under?

  171. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    I think this will do nicely. We can sing it every morning at sunrise, just before we get our daily gruel ration.

  172. “Or was I thinking of the Over/Under?”

    Free Joey Hairplugs NOW!

  173. “Obama’s big volunteer organization from the election and giving it a direction to run in during his presidency.”
    Well,that’s one strike against that idea,did you see those idiots?

    “Service to others is a lasting gift.”
    kind of like herpes.

    tony
    south haven,mi

  174. Community service is a good thing. That’s why it shouldn’t be taken over by the Feds. The Feds can’t do the job they already have. They screw up almost everything they touch. Nobody is stopping anybody from volunteering TODAY. RIGHT NOW you can volunteer! You don’t need Obama!

    There has to be some space for civil society. Every good thing should not be a federal program! If you give out 4 grand to students, colleges will raise tuition by $3999. These will turn into make-work jobs.

    In Katrina, church groups volunteered. Nobody had to pay them $4000. each. Nobody forced them, either.

  175. FEMA, much of the RED CROSS and the Reserve get paid, LIAR, DOPE, REDUMBLICAN.

    Slogan a better lie, ya’dumblican.

    Church groups are good for car washes.

  176. I have an artistic genius 15-year-old. He has already decided to write a symphony as his senior project. He has no intention of being an Obama Youth. Isn’t he going to do more for his community by writing music and contributing to the culture than he would picking up trash for a few months? How is some bureaucrat supposed to decide the relative worth to society of young people’s chosen actions?

  177. I’m looking forward to seeing all the draft card burnings.

  178. Better draft card burnings than bra burnings. Those suckers are expensive.

  179. thor found a line of reasonably priced nursing bras. If I remember right they were pink.

  180. “Better draft card burnings than bra burnings”

    Have you seen any of those ex-hippey chick boobs?

    Ewwww

    Old women walking in those stupid tie die,or that hemp pull-over that seems to be mandatory,to stoners and hippies.

    Their nip just poking out at the bottom of the shirt.

    Shoulda stuck to burning draft cards.
    not pretty..imho.

    Make you gay..NTTATWWT

    tony
    south haven,mi

  181. here … it’s the darndest things really what you remember

  182. You guys and your sniffy indignance are too funny. Irrelevant doesn’t begin to describe it.

  183. 1. It’s not government’s job.

    2. I don’t want to pay for the bureaucracy to run it.

    3. If young adults need money for college, they can get a job. Pick fruit if you have to; top tobacco; work at a fast food joint — you’ll not only get some good experience, it’s voluntary on the part of all parties, and I bet you could sock away more then $4,000.

    4. It’s too susceptible to abuse.

    5. The people who are touting it are speaking of it as compulsory, until they get noticed, then they rephrase things to make it sound voluntary. Until they think they’re not being watched anymore. That kind of behavior doesn’t engender trust.

    6. No one’s denying that serving your community is a Good Thing. But forcing people to do a Good Thing is, itself, a Bad Thing.

  184. There is, of course, a problem on the face of her argument:

    Slavery is an act that benefits no one but the person who owns the slave; community service benefits both the giver and receiver and helps make the world a better place and leaves a general good feeling for everyone involved.

    This is completely untrue. Slavery, as practiced in the early US, produced goods for sale at a rate and quantity that would have been impossible wihtout either much higher costs, or industrialization which didn’t exist yet. Tobacco, and, especially, cotton were the majority of the production and those goods fueld the US economy and provided, in turn, employment and prosperity to merchants and laborers who produced finished goods and resold them, and on and on.

    Many more people than the slaveowner benefited from slavery. (Who wants to bet that I now get slapped by some lefty for not expressly stating some moral reservation to slavery?)

    Others have asked, who, under this arrangement, will decide what service counts? Here’s a concrete and likely illustration; service through the Boy Socuts will not count because the Boy Scouts “discriminate.” I know that thought failes to give me “a general good feeling” ignoring, of course, that “good feelings” are not the ultimate justification for anything.

    I never received payment of any kind from my Boy Socut experience. We even have the example of the “Uknknown Scout” to warn us away form accepting gifts or payment when offered. Yet this service will net college students a $4000 “windfall?” Well, fine. Will that windfall be taxed, I wonder?

  185. Is part of being an “outlaw” standing by while folks call your (erstwhile?) friend a whore, bitch, and prospective “comfort woman”? I understand that you strongly disagree with her opinion on this, but is that really kosher to you? I’m not asking that rhetorically to be a dick, I think it would not be okay to you.

  186. Scan down this page, you’ll see that it still says “Require 100 Hours of Service in College”. At least until it goes down the memory hole.

    It’s a disturbing choice of words.

  187. Wow. Three comments out of almost 200 and Hubris seizes on those minority views. One from a guy who I don’t think has ever commented here before.

    And the “comfort woman” bit is more a matter of open-eyed forecasting than some description.

    Must everyone here really decry every cockeyed, off color, or tasteless comment to avoid being lumped in with them? If you’d rather argue the merits, then, please, go to. The others will take care of themselves.

  188. Must everyone here really decry every cockeyed, off color, or tasteless comment to avoid being lumped in with them?

    No. I’m really only asking Jeff. He and Michele were (at least online) friends, and he just lets this go, and it puzzles me. I understand why he doesn’t dig me (to put it lightly), but to let these comments about Michele pass by without comment–I don’t get it. The personal is the political, I guess.

  189. Cowboy up, Mr. Hubris cause out on the horizon, I see a puff of smoke. Indians on the warpath I think. White man speak-em with forked tongue… or, you know, not.

  190. Hi cynn! Come back to call people “pigs” again?

  191. Michele one l is a Pajama one anyway. Those ones don’t deign to defend themselves hardly never, so you can see how maybe there aren’t people what are lining up exactly for the privilege.

  192. Michele one l is a Pajama one anyway. So 2007-2008 .

    Shane!

    Goodnight.

  193. I mean, really, I have just one question for all the folks writing apologia for The One and company: what if they mean exactly what they’ve been saying?

    Sure would have been nice if the media pulled at a few threads before we gave the reins of power to those folks.

  194. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    If an official song is needed I vote this, “The Banana Boat Song” about the happy fulling life of back breaking labor we shall all see in the “Obama Paradise”.

  195. So this “required civil service”; is it the “Civil Defense force that is supposed to be as well funded as our military” or is this just “50-100 hours of community service for a 4 Grand tax credit for college”. The P-E (prez-elect) has spoken of both, and I remember reading on the change.gov site before it hit the memory hole that it was required for all Americans not just college kids.

    Also, why do we need this? Civil Defense? Um let’s see, we’ve got a fully operation military, many reserve corps, and of course we still have the right to form militias (via the Constitution). What about the Community Service part..well there’s a large network of outreach groups, Church groups and non-profit orgs that are willing to help..

    So why is this needed?

  196. Will there be an official song and stuff?

    And a bitchin little knife inscribed with Hope and Change or some such pearl of wisdom from the Little Book of Obamisms.

    Although, given the state of the modern left the knife will neither be particularly sharp, nor pointy. Them’s too dangerous for the little people.

  197. baxtrice:

    at the site I linked in comment #191, above, it still refers to “Required” service. Looks like they didn’t memory hole all references, and also makes it less likely that the other reference was accidental phrasing.

    As for “why it’s needed”…well, no purpose that makes me sleep any better at night. They’re betraying the leftist urge to social mobilization. They’ll create the corp, all they’ll need is some purpose to be mobilized toward.

  198. No. I’m really only asking Jeff. He and Michele were (at least online) friends, and he just lets this go, and it puzzles me. I understand why he doesn’t dig me (to put it lightly), but to let these comments about Michele pass by without comment–I don’t get it. The personal is the political, I guess.

    Ah. So Jeff must respond to every cockeyed, off color, or tasteless comment to avoid being lumped in with them. I get it.

    And you think you understand why yopu might not be dug…. Right.

  199. Seth:
    This was interesting:

    Invest in the nonprofit sector:

    Obama and Biden will create a Social Investment Fund Network to use federal seed money to leverage private sector funding. They will create an agency dedicated to building the capacity and effectiveness of the nonprofit sector.

    Sounds like money laundering to me..but I’m just really suspicious of all big government..

  200. “Civil Defense force”.Did’nt Panama have one of those?

    Dos’nt looked like it helped.

    tony
    south haven,mi

  201. The reaction to this is odd. Service is good. Helping others is good. Teaching young people to help others is good. So why not make it a federal government program?

    For the very simple reason that government is not capable, nor does government have a vested interest in your good. These simple facts will be evident in the organization and results from the program.

    Another point is that Obama’s adult life has been spent in a community that loses it’s youth. The number that end up in prison or in hopeless situations brought upon themselves by choices they make is discouraging. The intractable social problems cry out for something. Why not take the youth for a period of time, put them to work, let them learn the feelings of accomplishment that comes with a job well done, in helping others?

    I learned these things without a government program, and taught my child similarly. But without a doubt this program and the intent and execution of it would be targeted at dismantling the institutions and thinking that does this type of training right now.

    Utopian societies always kill those who don’t fit in. This type of program and thinking is a desire to create a utopia. People who lived through the times and thinking that led to the terrible abuses of fascism are all dead. We will learn the hard way how bad these ideas are.

    Derek

  202. The real question is what color shirts will everyone wear? The official Obama blue?

    Derek

  203. carter gave away the canal
    prepare for anal

  204. ARN. I like it. May just carve a ‘dillo in the stock of one of my Mosins. On top of the transparent abuse of federal power, another dastardly component of Nazitional Service will be posters, of course. Everybody looking up to a bright new future. All colored in harsh poster colors – rainbow spectrum of course, with androgynous males. The artists and the PR flacks and he Ozombies will be enthralled. The rest of us will remember watching and waiting for the ice cream sandwich to fall off the cafeteria ceiling and land on the lunch lady’s head.

    I’ve been doing ten hour days, and hope that Saturday isn’t one, too.

    The PJM article was just… shit. If you “reach across the aisle” in congress, you kill the first amendment and end up doing your party in, too. Thanks Mc… what was that loser fuck’s name?

    You also end up publishing apologist rationalizations for promised abuses of federal power. Reach across the aisle to the Communists and they end up pulling your right across. Or you get airbrushed.

    McCain is already down the memory hole; not even worth casually excoriating. Yet Mrs. Palin is going up on a cross daily, with Saturday matinees for the true believers. That’s how you tell who they know the threat is.

    Fuck ‘em. I intend to picket the Federal Building in Provo at some point in the not too distant future. I’m sure that the O!ne will provide subject matter for my sign. Or I can just go with “Where’s my rocket car?” or “FILL my TANK, BITCH!”

    You’ll have to imagine the rest of my rambling, angry post, because I’m too tired to produce it.

    Small blessings, etc.

    Pay day is tomorrow, Jeff.

  205. I adore Michelle Catalano, but she is way off base here, and Jeff was right to fisk her good.

    And by the way, does anyone here really believe it will take colleges and universities more than a millisecond to jack their tuition up $4000? This isn’t a windfall for students. It would be a windfall for colleges and universities. The reason tuitions are ridiculously expensive now is because government dumps masses amounts of money into the higher education marketplace.

  206. RTO Trainer:
    Ah. So Jeff must respond to every cockeyed, off color, or tasteless comment to avoid being lumped in with them. I get it.

    Well, you have to understand that Hubris cannot argue against Jeff on any other grounds so he has to try the faux moral outrage. BECAUSE OF THE…. ER, SOMETHING OR ANOTHER THAT “PROVES” JEFF IS A BAD MAN, A VERY BAD MAN, SEND HIM TO THE CORNFIELD!!!

  207. 189, not to mention indentured servitude, where wages might be owed at the end of the term of service or yearly, or indenture contracted to pay off debt, such as the expense of transport or of food, lodging and so forth.
    Servants could be bought or sold, captured and returned if they ran away, put to the lash. This is now prohibited as involuntary servitude.

    O’s plan would be form of involuntary servitude, even if the government provided some compensation for the conscripted civilian labor.

  208. Michele doesn’t understand the 13th amendment, and seems to have a very shallow grasp of history, at least about the topic she addressed.

  209. The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father.
    (No, I’m not referring to the USMC.)

  210. Irrelevant doesn’t begin to describe it.

    Irrelevant to what, slappy? Either the argument is wrong on its merits or it’s right. “Relevance” is the kind of douchey hipster twaddle that people throw around when they have nothing useful to say. I don’t have a strong opinion on this either way, but why don’t you say something useful?

    “Relevance.” What are you, 16?

  211. Gabriel,

    So yes, that’s an acceptably imposing stick, but that dog don’t hunt. Obama’s just a president, not the Hypnotoad.

    There’s another form of mandated slavery, this one court imposed, called child support. Try not paying it. Then try getting/keeping a driver’s license, a business, license, a passport. Then imagine yourself imprisoned for your failure to comply. All this, of course, is fully supported and enforced by your federal government.

    They already know how to do this stuff, Gabriel. They have the framework. They have precedent. And they have no shame about making the things you ought to do the things you must do lest you be punished.

  212. Trust in government is it’s own obvious dysfunction, Pablo. We’ll never bring these fools into the light of day until they face what others before and around them had and have already. The only conversion for a “progressive” is experiencing a sliver of what we’ve been pointing out has been the history of the inevitable abuse of excess power.

    Without that enlightenment you have the symptoms befitting liars and thieves, which at their core, is precisely what they are. A certain of our troll’s chronic incivility and abuse bespeaks an underlying condition that could only develop into the fullblown political psychosis we see before us. Now multiply that times approximately however many moonbats infest the place these days.

  213. Offer students scholarships for voluntary community service? I wish that had been an option when I went to college. I would have borrowed a lot less money.

  214. I see the drive-by is intentionally missing the point.

  215. JD writes: I see the drive-by is intentionally missing the point.

    The point is that this is a proposal for a voluntary program and you guys are all frantic and hysterical over the idea that there is something compulsory about it. It’ time y’all stopped beating this to death and went back to whatever Pam Geller makes up next about Obama’s father’s secret identity.

  216. “You can sit back, let others do it for you — then, when you’re comfortable that changes have been made to account for the growing outrage — you can pretend to be even handed and unbothered by all the fuss.” -el Jefe

    Is this a veiled defense of the validity of your hobby, couched in an over-reaching evaluation of my psychological calculus? Because if so, I think you and I might disagree a little on the correlation/causality ratio of blogging, or more properly, blog-commenting. But hey, that’s a good jumping-off point for a simple desultory electronic philippic on the eroded standards of civic involvement in the modern age and the substitution of debatably inauthentic cultural experiences and placebos for the aforementioned involvement, but you know what? That would probably just lead the hordes of ascendant wacko lefties to think that maybe a federal community service requirement would be just the thing to right the situation. To get the kids off the internets and out in the parks and other meatspaces of the world, you know. So it’s probably not worth the effort.

    If that’s not what you were engaged in, well, thanks. I prefer to euphemize it as “post-partisanship.” BECAUSE OF TEH CODE-SWITCHING!

  217. The point is that this is a proposal for a voluntary program and you guys are all frantic and hysterical over the idea that there is something compulsory about it.

    because it was originally presented as “required” with no compensation. Then people noticed and they changed the proposal, which I guess is alright, but the fact that they couldn’t see it as a problem in the first place is a bit concerning. Which I think was Jeff’s point.

  218. Pingback: Steynian 283 « Free Canuckistan!

  219. Comment by Colin Laney on 11/14
    The point is that this is a proposal for a voluntary program and you guys are all frantic and hysterical over the idea that there is something compulsory about it.

    Are you sure, Colin? It has been a couple of days now, have they changed there mind again yet?

  220. a better task for schoolkids – which would surely have a better & more immediate societal effect, and for which the infrastructure is already in place ->>>> make students actually ATTEND class, SIT down, PAY attention & complete their HOMEWORK. What would happen to America if Johnny & Jane could actually read and employ critical thinking???

    Barring that, what HE said: …..”Roy Mustang on 11/13 @ 12:10 pm #

    Obama&friends, let me put in a way you people will understand. My body, my choice, you liberal, Marxist pieces of s***.”

  221. My take on this can be found at http://miriamsideas.blogspot.com/2008/11/obamas-worker-bees.html. They better stay off my property, or I’ll emulate Bill Ayers and call the police.

  222. Its pretty simple folks…to come up with compulsory service, there would have to be an amendment to the Constitution. The President simply cannot make is so. Changing the Constitution is no easy feat, and darn near impossible. It takes 2/3 of the congress and 3/4 of the states to make it happen. The last amendment was in 1992 that limits pay raises for congressmen. There are many that remain unratified. That said, I am for any kind of tution forgiveness or credit that entices people to work for their community.

    This is so ridculous. I mean, I am not an Obama fan, I don’t think he is the right person for the job, but we have him never-the-less, I am willing to dole out some rope to him and see what he can do.

  223. i believe fully and wholeheartedly that President Obama’s plan is great in theory. why not make a country’s citizens clean up after itself, earn $4000 of college tuition, help the needy? are we that lazy that 50-100 hours out of our lazy lives is going to kill us? COME ON! it really upsets me that people are comparing Obama’s campaign and office to Marxism and Socialism. i am beyond frustrated. as Americans i believe our country’s future is up to us to change. we shouldn’t be waiting on the government and it’s municipalities to handle EVERYTHING when we can do some stuff ourselves. just my opinion.

  224. oh. People wouldn’t compare like that if Barack Obama and his skeezey woman weren’t dirty socialist Chicago street trash though, Ames. This is one of those cart/horse things I think.

  225. Hi Carin. Sometimes I just sort of end up places I didn’t start off to go.

  226. oh. That goes somewheres else.

  227. I’m SO frightened for our country! For my community, For my children!!! Where and when are we? why hasn’t anyone noticed yet the similarities between this “mandatory volunteer corp.” and Hitler’s SS. They are proposing far more than just “encouraging” the youth to volunteer in their communities, they want to send them to “campuses” for “re-eduacation”. I will NEVER allow anyone to tell my family what is right and necessary for MY CHILDREN! It is MY RIGHT as an American citizen to raise my children as I see fit. Many GREAT men fought and died to give me that right. I can’t believe these ideas are even being entertained seriously by anyone! They are so obviously dangerous for our nation! I wonder if Obama’s daughter’s will be “required” to serve their community? I pray someone SAVES us from the path we are being dragged down by Obama and his leagues of yes men. We should all PRAY.

  228. nobody pays attention. if this is enacted by the obama administration it won’t be mandatory. it clearly said that for middle amd high school students the GOAL(if it was mandatory it would have said the REQUIREMENT) is 50 hours and for college students the GOAL is 100 hours so you can get a cut on your colledge tuition. What the heck is the article writer talking about beuracracy? o_0. It’s like michelle’s words go in one ear and out the other to this writer.
    Although the only credit I’ll give the article writer is that if Bush proposed this he’d be impeached. buuuuuut on the other hand republicans would probrably think it’s a good idea if bush said it, now that obama says it people think we are all under some illuminati new world order conspiracy. 0_0. respond back. Also this is off topic to don’t respond to this part, nobody complains about jury duty do they? XD. Respond back

Leave a Reply