— Which results, I think, suggests quite a bit about both CBS and the kinds of “uncommitted voters” — all 470+ of these creatures — they polled. My guess? Going into last night’s debate, 300 or so of these folks weren’t sure if they were going to vote for Obama, for Nader, or try a write-in vote for Hugo Chavez or Miley Cyrus:
CBS News and Knowledge Networks have conducted a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters to get their immediate reaction to tonight’s vice presidential debate.
After the first presidential debate, a similar survey showed that more uncommitted voters identified Barack Obama as the winner
Final numbers from tonight’s poll have yet to come in, but we do have some early results. (These numbers may change as more respondents complete the survey.) They suggest that once again more voters have responded favorably to the Democratic candidate.
Forty-six percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed say Democrat Joe Biden won the debate, compared to 21 percent for Republican Sarah Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.
Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.
Now, at times I can let my objectivity slide a bit. We all can.
But let’s face it: one has to be in a state of complete and total denial to assert that Joe Biden “won” the debate last evening. In fact, I think what’s most telling here is the large percentage who scored it a draw, the clearest evidence we’re likely to get from such a sampling that Palin won, and that grudgingly calling the debate a tie was about the extent to which these folks would debase themselves.
As a commenter on HotAir noted:
I did catch a couple of minutes of the show at CBS after the debate. Bryon Pitts, who I am sure is impartial, ran the instant poll with a group of undecideds using Nelson technology. Then he showed the most “amazing results†from parts of the debate, of course the ones showing favorable reactions to Sen. Biden going up and Gov. Palin going down. The most telling was when Sen. Biden bashed the Iraq War by contrasting the amount of money spent there to the money spent in Afghanistan. The favorables went skyrocketing, but as soon as the cameras cut to Gov. Palin, and before she even started speaking the favorables drop like a rock. Even Bryon had to indicate that the group was “slightly†leaning towards voting for Barack Obama for president. Nope, no agenda being driven at CBS.
This increasingly familiar trend in poll fixing — which plays on Americans’ presumptive desire to back a winner — is, as we’ve seen with the way the candidates have been vetted, yet another tool the ostensibly “objective” press uses as a means of subtle advocacy for their candidate of choice.
Which is why, I suspect, in another case of consensus “winning,” CNN’s instant poll gave the debate to Biden as well, 51-36 (Huffington Post describes Biden as having “dominated the debate” — and shows a sudden interest in the genius of Charles Krauthammer) — even though the Luntz focus group (no shills, traditionally) went decidedly for Palin:
Were these people all watching the same debate? Are “uncommitted voters” now simply pretending to score debates while already knowing going in who they will “perceive” as the winner?
My guess is yes to both — because it’s unlikely that those outlets in the bag for Barack would make the mistake now of veering back toward the truly objective.
Which is why I’d argue that the large number of those who voted “tie” might, to borrow from Evan Thomas, translate to, say, a 15% Palin swing, were we operating in a media universe not being controlled by progressive advocates who’ve been busy landscaping the nation for the coming of Obama’s Eden.
The Baracky voters are silent about the debate this morning here. That means Governor Palin won. It’s scientific.
The CBS and CNN samples were watching Sarah Biden debating Joe Palin.
You betch’a, dog gon’it, hockey-Joes and Six-prick Moms, there you go again!
Strangely enough, 473 is the exact number of Kit-Kats, Baby Ruths, 3 Muskies, Fritos, and Hot Fries that were sold out of the CBS newsroom vending machine at 11:00 pm last night.
That restaurant thinger. Minor point, sure
See, there I was thinking perception and presentation mattered. Because that’s what the lefties have been telling me. And I always believe them.
But I guess that only goes to height and skin color. “Girlyness” won’t cut it. Politics is a game for the MEN. And, like, FIESTY BULL DYKES.
FOR THE HOPE AND CHANGE!
Knowledge Networks polls people who respond to incentives to answer internet surveys and also if they don’t have internet Knowledge Networks hooks them up for them. It’s definitely a sample markedly not comprised of an individualist timber. People who want to have that close a relationship with a marketing research company are people that are more comfortable than average with having the government tuck them in at night I’d think.
“Are “uncommitted voters†now simply pretending to score debates while already knowing going in who they will “perceive†as the winner?”
He who pays the piper, calls the tune. For us that means in these polls we get what we pay for. The polls are worth every penny I personally paid.
“were we operating in a media universe not being controlled by progressive advocates who’ve been busy landscaping the nation for the coming of Obama’s Eden.”
I think “astroturfing” instead of landscaping. It has the proper depth.
“The most telling was when Sen. Biden bashed the Iraq War by contrasting the amount of money spent there to the money spent in Afghanistan. The favorables went skyrocketing…”
Which is pretty amazing, considering his statement was a big steaming pile. But then I don’t expect a lot from Democrats masquerading as independents.
Jeff, since CO is a swing state, are you going to go door to door for Palin? :) Every bit helps. Maybe at least wear one of those sweet lipstick pins.
CBS and CNN could be borrowing their “independents†from the Detroit Free Press.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/08/editor-defends-use-of-codepink-members-in-independent-focus-group/
Semanticleo.
Just another step forward on the meandering path to socialism. Do you think Dear Leader will be tracking IP addresses come January?
Don’t you have some baby quail to microwave or something, thor?
Doesn’t have to be a shill job (though this one is).
Any random “I’m voting but I don’t know for whom” sample is going to lean toward Biden types — techocratic blusterers — and Democrats generally.
They’re decided, committed. They’re for…whatever. Waiting to be told what.
Not Palin’s crowd, much. CBS’s, precisely.
I watched college football rather than the debate so consider me completely objective. Palin won in a landslide. How do I know? Reaction from drooling lefties like semenstain.
“Are “uncommitted voters†now simply pretending to score debates while already knowing going in who they will “perceive†as the winner?”
Well hells yes. Evidence? Wasn’t there a discussion going on right here just yesterday about gaming the pollsters?
https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13349
I bet the numbers just soared when he reassured the independants in question that no, Obama had never ever said he would meet with the President of Iran (I am not trying to spell his name anymore). Really he never said that.
Palin must have won handily. On MSNBC: “This is a one day news story, we won’t even be talking about it by dinner time.”
I guarantee if Palin had mangled the facts about where the VP derives his constitutional responsibilities as badly as Biden did, they would never stop talking about it.
Most Americans know little about the Constitution, either. So you GO, Joey Six-Pack! Well played!
Uncommitted voters are those what haven’t voted yet. You can find a gaggle of them at your local Baracky campaign office.
#20 the wolf
That’s about as close to admitting defeat as we’re likely to see from the Alphabet Networks.
Guy talks like an effin’ Bosniak.
“President of Iran (I am not trying to spell his name anymore).”
Just use ‘Amawackjob, descriptive and close enough phonetically.
Katie’s Korner.
I’m just saying that if it were McCain, it’d be proof positive that he’s senile.
“On MSNBC: “This is a one day news story, we won’t even be talking about it by dinner time.—
True but “we” is not the country. It’s an exclusive secret club, handshakes, secret signs, code words, like the Masons except a different God.
So the viewership has declined so much for MSNBC that they now break for dinner?
Sad really
thor, if you’re a connoisseur of howlingly funny comment threads, I have a piece about the debate at the Minnesota Independent. The Reader’s Digest condensed version:
Palin’s advocates are understandably delighted by her performance in last night’s debate, which did not actually produce the widely-expected fiasco. Palin completed a surprising number of her sentences, and she showed evidence of having successfully assimilated lengthy portions of her stump speech. She was clearly excited to discover that she could recite the occasional facts and figures, and she drew attention to these achievement several times. Visibly and audibly nervous through much of the conversation, Palin nevertheless managed to keep smiling and striking the populist dulcimer, using phrases such as “darn right,†“doggone it,†and “heck of a lot†while trumpeting the virtues of “Joe Six Pack†(a strangely inappropriate metaphor coming from the governor of a state with some of the worst alcohol-related problems in the nation). In all, Palin heroically exceeded the lowest performance expectations in the history of vice presidential debating. To point out that Palin committed a number of gross factual errors  on Afghanistan, on the role of the vice president  seems uncharitable somehow.
What was Palin’s VP role error, sashal? Are you confusing your candidates?
What’s really sad is that thor most likely trollhamnmered sashal a long time ago.
The radio news just flashed that the House has passed the bail out.
Republicans, you are a ship of cowards and fools and deserve the time you are about to spend in the wilderness.
Democrats, history will judge you harshly. You have fooled the nation for thirty years. You have gutted the spiritual core of what America should be. It took no ability to cajole the Republicans into their own destruction this morning.
You’ve killed a nation. What challenge a mere party, then?
It’s going to be Obama.
Holy shit! A sashal sighting. Hey, is Thor fucking one of sashal’s relatives? Is that the connection?
“To point out that Palin committed a number of gross factual errors  on Afghanistan, on the role of the vice president  seems uncharitable somehow.”
Then do it, sashal. I know you’re more of a “conservative” ankle biting moron, but at least give it a try.
I guess the Dems realised they have the majority.
Sarah Palin mischaracterized statements by the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David McKiernan, in which he said that an Iraq-like “surge” would not be appropriate for Afghanistan.
Palin asserted that one thing distinguishing John McCain’s proposed policy in Afghanistan from President Bush’s was that McCain thinks that “the surge principles that have worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan, also.”
In response Biden pounced, noting that McKiernan had come out against such an approach just today. Palin then hedged, saying that “McClellan” (meaning McKiernan) had not “definitively” ruled out using “surge principles” in Afghanistan:
Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn’t say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan. And those leaders who are over there, who have also been advising George Bush on this have not said anything different but that.
But according to a report in Thursday’s Washington Post, McKiernan was emphatic in remarks made Wednesday, that a “surge” would not succeed in Afghanistan. Here’s what McKiernan actually said, according to the Post:
“Afghanistan is not Iraq,” said Gen. David D. McKiernan, who led ground forces during the 2003 Iraq invasion and took over four months ago as head of the NATO-led coalition in Afghanistan.
Speaking in Washington yesterday, McKiernan described Afghanistan as “a far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq.” The country’s mountainous terrain, rural population, poverty, illiteracy, 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war all make for unique challenges, he said.
“The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ‘surge,’ ” McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.
Gwen Ifill asked Sarah Palin whether she agreed with Dick Cheney’s rather extraordinary claim that the Vice President’s office is outside of the Executive Branch Wouldn’t you know? That pitbull with lipstick agrees with Cheney.
Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.
The mind shudders at the thought. Thankfully, Joe Biden knew exactly how to respond to someone who admires the least popular Vice President in American history
thor most likely trollhamnmered
Thor hasn’t trollhammered anybody, betcha money.
He’s obsessed.
Yeah, Sasha. By wrongly insisting that Article I deals with the executive branch.
The CBS Radio Network’s little top-of-the-hour blurb noted that there were differences in tone between the two participants, what with Palin saying stuff like “gol darnit” and the winks at the camera.
I wasn’t able to see the whole debate because I was watching it over the Internet at work, and our ISP’s web server crashed for about a half-hour. Which it did for the previous debate, too. And will probably do again.
But I did hear Hewitt’s post-debate wrap-up, and of course he and his guests (Dean Barnett, Mark Steyn, Ed Morrisey) were all aglow with praise for her.
So it was a bit of a jolt when I turned on the Midnight Radio Network and heard the howls of displeasure. These guys are dead-on conservatives, and what bugged them was the overt populism that Palin was exuding, especially with regard to the credit crisis and Big Oil.
Conclusion: She’s been assimilated by McCain’s dark side, as she surely must be. McCain is McCain, and now we remember why we dislike him so much. And then he goes and ruins Palin to boot.
The fact that Alaskans could elect Palin to run that state tells us a lot about their politics. Obviously they rely on oil revenues and federal subsidies for their budgets. They have no income tax or sales tax. Imagine what that means. They do not worry about tax revenues, it comes with the oil they are extracting. They are like that Indian Tribe that pulls 40k a month per tribal member because of the casino. I was kind to her just after the debate because I did not want to be rude. Today, it is apparent to me that she is a laughing stock, an embarrassment not only to Alaska but to us as a nation. People across the world watched this woman fumble around like a kindergarten teacher substituting in a graduate course in calculus.
I hear from many Alaskans that the state is filled with some very strange types. The statistics from Alaska are horrible. Highest rapes, least number of police per person, entire towns with no police at all, meth is everywhere, people are drunk as skunks, pot growing is everywhere, they hunt to eat because they need to, they have high rates of dropouts too. The state is a disaster yet here she is telling us that she is doing a great job managing a complete clusterfuck.
Well, I hope the country realized last night that this race is about our country not some party or ideology.
I’m confused, sashal. Where’s the “howlingly funny” part?
Thor is that you silly goose?
least number of police per person
Yes, unlike civilized countries such as the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Plenty of police there.
they hunt to eat because they need to
Uh-huh
They have high rates of dropouts too
Uh-huh
Face it, sashal: Palin beat the crap out of the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last night, on ever level.
Analysis, command of the facts, truthfulness, and personality.
“Every” level, that should say.
SBP.
Poor , poor SBP
SBP.
Poor , poor SBP
Translation: you have no response.
Have a good day.
40, Dan
remember , that Biden’s answer was in response to Palin’s statement:
“no. Of course, we know what a vice president does. And that’s not only to preside over the Senate and will take that position very seriously also. I’m thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and making sure that we are supportive of the president’s policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are”
Somewhere in this jumble of words, Palin suggests that the constitution is flexible regarding the amount of authority available to the VP in the senate. Biden says no, referring to Article 1, the VP may cast a vote in the case of a tie.
If this douchnozzle with the “sashal” handle is actually sashal the Russian (who hasn’t been around here in a while now), I’m the frackin’ Sultan of Borneo.
My guess he’s some KozKiddie/DUmmie poseur who is still drunk on O!’s milky loads…
Biden says:
If you go read the United States Constitution, you’d notice that it doesn’t say a whole hell of a lot about the Vice-President. The most interesting thing, of course, is that the VP is the President of the Senate. (What that actually means is left up for grabs. I wonder if you could argue that the President of the Senate has the responsibility to ensure that the Senate follows its rules and regulations.) And, of course, the VP has the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
Other than that, the US Constitution is silent upon the duties and responsibilities of the VP. Which fits Governor Palin’s point.
couldn’t we just look at what the President pro tempore does? I realize it’s not spelled out either. Is that nothing other than a tie-breaker?
Ok, sashal you can and paste. We got that. Mischaracterizing a statement is the same as a gross factual error? Ok, comrade. And disagreeing with what you think the role of the VP should be is another “gross factual error”? Nope, it’s the real sashal.
I don’t know … I hate Joe Biden with a passion that burns, and -I- thought he handily won the debate. Palin regurgitated sound bites about what a maverick McCain is, and informed us over and over about what a normal person she is. I found her performance so grating early on that I was physically uncomfortable and had to bang on my plastic Rock band drum kit incessantly.
Yes, Biden hammered us with the “change” sound bites. But he was able to riff freely on a variety of subjects, where Palin would always go back to the same talking points. He -seemed- to have a far better command of the facts, and though I consider myself a fairly well informed voter, I was completely unaware of many of the falsehoods he uttered until reading the pundits today. He was also very gracious and he actually did a good job sometimes of fairly presenting the other sides point of view. For example, when countering Palin’s claim about McCain supporting alternative energy, Biden allowed that (to paraphrase) “Perhaps he believes in free market solutions, but he has opposed government financing”.
As a rhetoritician, Biden ran circles around Palin. I just don’t see how one can deny that. I do think she improved later on. As intelligent people, can we really sit here and say Palin won because her constant references to “joe six pack” make her seem more “in touch” with the common man than Biden? This is not how I judge a debate, but it seems like more and more conservatives are relying on this calculus.
So, uh, I hope Biden lets Israel in in the fact the US and France drove the Hizzies out of Lebanon. They lost a whole bunch of guys fighting nobody in 2006.
Ajax, you are following the form of astroturfers everywhere. “Well, I supported/hated X for 479 years, but you know what, that event which just happened changed my whole life and now I have to oppose/support X.”
Not saying I know you are an astroturfer, just that you sound like one.
Are these the same “uncommitted voters” who turned out to be Obama/Hillary activists and Democrat campaign workers in the audience of CNNs Republican Primary debate?
So.. This was just a ploy to get “eat crack” and “FIESTY BULL DYKES” into a single post, right? And isn’t ‘fiesty bull dyke’ redundant?
Besides, I’m pretty sure you snort crack, but I could be wrong..
Oh, and that Biden guy? He lost, but he obviously uses his tanning bed more than Palin does.
And telling bald faced lies is NOT “riffing freely”.
If Saturday Night Live does not do Biden with the biggest set of choppers they can find and also make him look like the projected image of the Wizard of Oz (with the massive brain-forehead) they should be prosecuted for comic negligence.
“Anonymous coward”:
So are you saying my argument has no substance? Because you failed to deal with it at all. My opinion differs from the collective, so I’m likely a lefty plant. Sigh.
I doubt you really care, but you can read my rather lame blog at greatajax.com if you want evidence of my bona fides.
So are you saying my argument has no substance?
Your argument appears to be, roughly, “Sure, Biden lied, but his rhetoric was good.”
And those “common men” get to vote, too, the last time I looked.
So, since “common men” get to vote, constantly referring to them as a way to evade direct questions must be the best way to win a debate!
Don’t give yourself a hernia setting up those straw men, Ajax.
as if your characterization of my argument isn’t a straw man.
I doubt you expended much effort on it, though, so no worries here about a hernia for you.
Ajax: The object of this exercise was not to win technical debate points. It was to win votes.
If Palin’s “common man” rhetoric connects with voters (and I think it does), she wins.
Do you really think Biden’s blatherings about Home Depot and the “neighborhood gas station” ring true?
Careful Spies. I think I read somewhere that Joe Biden likes to caulk down some of his newer hair plugs and Home Depot has a sale on DAP right now.
I think he makes ’em the plugs out of that crappy indoor/outdoor carpet, actually.
Spies: the object of the parent post was to make the point that only someone in denial of reality could believe that Biden won the debate. So here, in this thread, it is important.
Obviously, I haven’t convinced anyone here that I am not in denial of reality. But the point I was -trying- to make is that I watched that debate praying that Palin would wipe the floor with Biden, and what I witnessed was the reverse.
He’s a fucking Senator; I’d be shocked if he couldn’t bullshit at the drop of a hat.
Nothing says “executive experience” like “rhetoric”. Jesus.
But the point I was -trying- to make is that I watched that debate praying that Palin would wipe the floor with Biden, and what I witnessed was the reverse.
Witness may be a strong word. You see a guy hit another guy with a shovel – it happened, you witnessed it.
You feel as though Biden wiped the floor with Palin in the debate. You imagined it.
Yes, all the LIBRUL MEDIA polls are slanted. McCain and Palin are actually destroying Obama and Biden! Just keep telling yourselves that, and then on election day, when the big O wins in a landslide, run around in your tinfoil hats and claim there’s a vast left wing conspiracy to steal votes.
Baracky isn’t going to win. Not the election. Even the slanted polls don’t give him near the margin he would need. He has a voter pool that is a lot skewed with losers. Way more than normal.
If only McCain would have snuck into the bill that you could only renegotiate your principle on election day.
Comment by skylights on 10/3 @ 3:47 pm #
“Yes, all the LIBRUL MEDIA polls are slanted. McCain and Palin are actually destroying Obama and Biden! Just keep telling yourselves that, and then on election day, when the big O wins in a landslide, run around in your tinfoil hats and claim there’s a vast left wing conspiracy to steal votes.”
Another KozKid Fellator For The Obamessiah heard from.
Actually, you silly bitch, if you’d bothered to read any of the relevant threads here of late, the consensus of many, including the illustrious owner of this site, are of the opinion that your boy Obamalamadingdong is going to win (personally, I’m not sure, as there is still time for McCain to get his head out of his ass and start fighting this thing like he really wants the fucking job, by the simple expedient of telling the unvarnished truth about your precious Dear Leader).
But steal votes? You betcha they are. That’s long been a tradition among the Dims. Hell, if one of your more loopy Commie pals hadn’t capped him, you could ask Jack Kennedy and he could tell you all about how it’s done. The Chicago Way, of course.
As for the tinfoil hats, that concession is all sewn up over at Koz and DU. Don’t need ’em around here.
skylights, no one wants to continue that failed Democrat policy of the last 8 years. It’s time for a CHANGE!
al: No, I -think- Biden won the debate. I presented you with a summary of my reasons for -thinking- so. You will not grant me the ability to draw an independent conclusion, probably because you believe that to do so will give ammunition to your political enemies.
Ajax and Friday afternoon you don’t ever put in the blender together.
Yes, all the LIBRUL MEDIA polls are slanted. McCain and Palin are actually destroying Obama and Biden! Just keep telling yourselves that, and then on election day, when the big O wins in a landslide, run around in your tinfoil hats and claim there’s a vast left wing conspiracy to steal votes.
Like the Democrats have done the last two elections?
Ajax. Can’t speak for anyone else, but the response that piqued your ire was pointing out that you styled your post as “concerned christian” astroturfing. The easiest way to prove the poster right is to get mad when that’s pointed out. You’re not helping yourself when you act pissy.
FWIW, I think Palin did well, a little better than Biden, but Biden wasn’t awful. I think he deeply regrets that he’s #2 on the ticket and he doesn’t have a better #1, but that could be me projecting my feelings about the republican ticket on to Biden.
In any case, Palin holding her own against Biden is a win. By not winning clearly, Biden lost badly. She was supposed to be an easy kill, right?
Look, Ajax; Mark pretty well nailed it upthread. Sure, if you want to count it on formal debate style, or as a “rhetoritician” (aka bullshit artist), perhaps you could make a case that Hairplugs did better than Sarah. But as Mark pointed out, the guy has been a Senator for thirty fucking years. You take any of those clowns, House or Senate, who have been in office for a while, they can “rhetoritize”, bullshit, spin and generally tapdance their way out of anything.
This was not about formal debate tactics; it is about which handles themselves better, and who screws up the least (Biden right off the bat got caught telling several outright “factual inaccuracies” during the debate). And Palin overall handled herself better than Biden did.
You can draw whatever conclusion you want regarding who “won”, by whatever metric you choose. But keep in mind this is not some high school debate competition, and never has been.
I’m not so sure he wiped the floor up with her, or vice versa. It was close, imo. I shared some of Ajax’s opinions of Palin, but I realize that it is purely, for me at least, a question of style. I hate that people of average intellect (that’s me!) put too much stock in the appearance of intelligence. Common sense is a very important requirement in a politician. Especially in a President or vice president. Palin, from all accounts seems to have that in spades. But, the good golly’s and gee whiz’s are tough to take at times.
Oh, and please disregard ANYTHING skylights vomits up. His trollery is not good enough for this here joint.
are you guys serious?
And you are supposed to be the A-team for conservatives. ouch
Larison, after once again going through Palin’s gaffes from last night and her atrocious record as Mayor and Governor that for whatever reason has right-wingers all giddy, tells it like it is:
I rehash all of this not to dwell on Palin’s problems, which are increasingly irrelevant as McCain heads towards defeat, but to implore conservatives to stop ignoring reality just because they happen to like a candidate’s personality and biography. Besides being bad for the quality of conservative thought, it embraces the caricature that conservatives are indifferent to knowledge and have no use for expertise, which has become an all too legitimate critique of how conservatives have responded to the misrule of the Bush administration. That was not always the case, but if conservatives insist on making elaborate arguments that understanding and knowledge are not significant criteria when choosing our top elected officials they will lose whatever credibility they may still have. More than that, they will be crippled by their embrace of cheerful ignorance when it comes time to oppose the policies of the Democratic administration that is surely about to be elected.
Good luck with that- they are busy making their own reality. Although I will say this, as I watched CNN last night during the debate, they had that annoying meter thing going, but every time Palin tried that folksy nonsense she was just hammered with a huge downward spike. I am beginning to think people are seeing through the nonsense.
She must have done well. The usual prog shills plus several of their sockpuppets show up telling everyone how Biden won. She rattled Biden. that’s not winning for Biden.
McCain definately has a chance.
I wonder how many friends of ‘O’ work for ACORN? This is going to get legs.
CNN is for people what don’t think very good so they show you a meter. It’s like training wheels for having an opinion.
yep, HF
that must be the reason.
C’mon, you are much smarter then the average repub
It’s just their methodology isn’t transparent so the data is useless is all I mean. Also you need to be able to break out demos.
And you are supposed to be the A-team for conservatives. ouch
What?
You’re not the real sashal.
Goodbye.
I also mean that in laying metadata over data they’re also adding another layer on top of all of it, and it’s not a particularly democratic or healthy thing I don’t think.
Who is Luntz?HF
And I am sorry I can not be quick to respose here, I have a serious fight on Slate with some REAL Marxists advocating socialism in USA…
Ajax
But he was able to riff freely on a variety of subjects
and for someone who is a lawyer with over 30 years in the Senate and who claims to be the smartest man in the room, that “free riffing” was spectacularly WRONG
as in FALSE, as in NOT REAL.
There are honest misstatements (confusing names, malapropisms, garbled grammar) then there is huge, gaping holes of hallucinations – the latter which Biden has elevated to almost an artform.
The botox on his forehead seeped into the brain matter.
“Ajax and Friday afternoon you don’t ever put in the blender together.”
But now its friday evening, I’m stoned, and it’s all good, baby. ;-)
Or wait, what if the weed is making me subconsciously astroturf for Obama? Crap, now the paranoia is killing my buzz.
Luntz is an infotainer mostly I think.
OI
But, the good golly’s and gee whiz’s are tough to take at times.
Depends on where and how you were raised.
Some people even as adults, especially when they have small kids, talk like that a lot.
Even though my kids are out of the house, I make my husband laugh because my idea of swearing outloud is yelling “SUGAR” when I stub a toe.
(I admit I cuss like a sailor online, but there’s a different audience. I trained myself never to swear outloud around my kids and it has stuck)
I trained myself never to swear outloud around my kids
Before she had kids, my sister vocabulary could make a sailor blush.
That changed after her firstborn got old enough to repeat things. :-)
Oh. Across the street you can buy bongs that are cleverly disguised as everyday consumer products. Like Pringles or Dr. Pepper. They’re kind of expensive yet cheap-looking at the same time. I hadn’t been in a head shop in forever. It’s run by Armenian kids what wanna be all gangsta. It’s kind of cute. There’s a back room if you wanna do a hookah or maybe get gangraped by wannabe Armenian gangsta kids but you could smell weed from back there which probably means our new Armenian gangsta pals aren’t gonna be there very long.
SBP
My ex is Irish…with a temper to match and his mouth had no censor, even around the kids.
Which lead to one of the funniest (in retrospect) adventures in parenting I had.
SBP
And this is the follow up as Mom’s revenge 19 years later.
Is this still a thread about the debate? May I make some comments? I thought Sarah Palin look hypnotized, and she drifted off question and into the you betcha territory a bit much. Plus, the moderator was leaden and failed to propel the progress of the debate. I wonder how much of that was a result of the righty banshees keening about bias. I didn’t see bias; I saw bore.
I liked Palin’s outfit, though — kind of retro flirty. Also, she seems to have lost that plucky “slug/pinch the air” affect she had going on previously. No doubt a result of her relentless refitting by strategists.
Biden I don’t know much about; you can call him a liar I suppose. But at one point I recall him breaking down into tears. Wonder why that’s not been made the deal it was in Hillary’s case.
All in all, a draw. Wouldn’t want to see either one in real power.
I thought Sarah Palin look hypnotized
shut up you ignorant slut
Michelle Obama has done disappeared. I’m very worried about her.
Because he was invoking his dead wife and daughter and his two badly injured kids when he deployed that affectation. It’s not exactly the vapors even when you’re faking it.
Has anyone been to Target maybe?
Pablo
re: Biden’s tragedy … I’m curiously reminded of how he has been lauded and congratulated through the years for “soldiering on” even as a single parent with needy kids, continuing to stay in politics — compared to the savaging from the left of Palin for daring to take the VP spot rather than stay home with Trig.
hf
I was at Target earlier this week, but there was no fresh fruit.
I’d like to give a shout-out to cynn! Winky-winky, you bet’cha!
To answer your question, Biden had a painful reflection snap concerning a lost child, Hillary teared trying to answer the question: “how do you stay so wonderul.”
By the way, how do you stay so wonderful?
Obama stealing the watermelons again?
CBS News and Knowledge Networks have conducted a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters…
Nationally representative means thay called folks in both L.A. and NYC…
Knowledge Network is a left wing organizationout of Menlo Park California…They have a past history of contributing to Democratic candidates. They are perhaps best known this cycle for conducting polls for AP that showed 1/3 of Democrats to be racists, that 83 percent say it is “very important” to improve the standing of the United States in the world, they are owned by Intrepid capital, which is owned by George Soros…
Which means that anyone who believes these likely Sorelian lies, has been pwnd…
“C’mon, you are much smarter then the average repub”
That’s funny, sashal, because you’re much dumber than the average progressive.
Cynn said,”But at one point I recall him breaking down into tears. Wonder why that’s not been made the deal it was in Hillary’s case.”
It’s called using the dead for cheap political advantage.Hillary poisoned the well on that particular ploy. But I’ll give Biden points for the attempt.
I wouldn’t call it a draw if Palin swings more undecideds than Biden.
#109
At least you admit he’s a thief.