From Out & About, a gay-oriented newspaper, comes their version of the terrible tragedy wrought by an anti-Christian gunman at a Knoxville church. The death toll has now reached two.
Out & About’s story recasts this as a possible anti-gay hate crime because the church in question was “gay affirming.” Among other details, we learn that the church had recently put up a sign specifically inviting gays to become parishioners, and that the gunman burst in and began shooting when the children of the parish were preparing to put on a production of “Annie” as “part of normal services.”
Now, it’s possible that this murderer, as well as being anti-Christian, was also anti-gay. I can’t say. But there’s no information to this point that suggests it. I find it pretty sad that this publication would jump to cast this human tragedy as a specifically gay one, as if it weren’t bad enough to begin with. It’s a Tennessee publication and seems to try to take a balanced view of Gay Christian issues. But why pander this way? Has identity politicking infected us so badly?
Afterword: It seems that there’s some circumstantial evidence that anti-gay may be a part of this, but I still think the editorial slant, while not surprising, is disappointing.ÂÂ
“He almost turned angry,” she told the newspaper. “He seemed to get angry at that. He said that everything in the Bible contradicts itself if you read it.”
Jeff’s the Flannery O’Connor expert around here. Perhaps he’d like to connect this up with The Misfit from “A Good Man Is Hard to Find.”
UPDATE: AP reports that the guy shot up this church in particular because of his hatred for their liberalism. So, clinging to guns, life and religion in liberal redneck Tennessee.
Comment by notaclue on 7/28 @ 9:15 am #
It’s hard to tell at this early stage. The shooter left a letter in his vehicle. According to the Knoxville News-Sentinel, “Adkisson said he was frustrated about not being able to obtain a job and how much he hated the liberal movement.” Naturally, the police are keeping the letter’s details quiet for now, but this report offers some slight support for the anti-gay, or at least anti-liberal, theory.
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 9:16 am #
Thanks, notaclue.
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 9:19 am #
I would seem shooting up Unitarian Universalists as a demonstration of Christian-hate approaches fail.
Aside from that general failure as a human being thing.
Comment by Carin on 7/28 @ 9:20 am #
Anti-Christian AND anti-gay? Does such a person exist?
Obviously, this person was confuzzeled.
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 9:22 am #
“it” would seem, that is.
I wonder why he colored and got angry at a neighbor’s mention of her daughter’s attendance at bible college.
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 9:32 am #
The Demi-Paganest Unitarians really don’t qualify as a target for “anti-Christian Hate” so this guy may also be an ignorant moron.
Regardless this is a terrible tragedy and one wonders why someone, regardless of their own hatreds, would delibartely target young people. Prayers to them and their families.
Perhaps everyone should just wait and see what his real reasons were for targeting this particular church.
question: If it turns out that he was more Anti-Liberal than anti Gay, can he still be charged with a hate crime? I already know the answer if the choice is anti-Christian.
Yea, I’m grumpy today.
Comment by TheGeezer on 7/28 @ 9:33 am #
He was anti-Christian and did this at a Unitarian-Univesalist church? Is that church still considered Christian?
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 9:35 am #
From the Duncan Mansfield/ AP article I read (picture of the shooter at the link)
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 7/28 @ 9:36 am #
I hear there’s a radical Unitarian group that goes around burning question marks on people’s yards.
It’s possible he chose the lefty church because it was the only one in Tennessee where the parishioners wouldn’t be prepared to shoot back.
Comment by Mikey NTH on 7/28 @ 9:38 am #
BJ: You are expecting him to actually know the difference between different denominations, aren’t you? To know where each stands on theology?
Maybe he just didn’t like show tunes.
Comment by SevenEleventy on 7/28 @ 9:42 am #
Maybe he just didn’t like show tunes.
Or the sight of women wearing comfortable shoes!
Comment by JD on 7/28 @ 9:47 am #
Or sock puppets, and Brazilian cabana boyz.
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 9:50 am #
A KWTX report quotes Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen’s new conference remarks about the screed letter the shooter left in his car.
Owens also mentioned “He certainly intended to take a lot of casualties because he had at least 76 rounds with himâ€Â
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 9:57 am #
FWIW I think the pandering is stupid. The real problem is the old man’s organic mental defects,
Comment by Ouroboros on 7/28 @ 10:06 am #
He might have just had a hate-on for people with sculpted helmet-hair..
Comment by Barrett Brown on 7/28 @ 10:29 am #
Not going with “anti-liberal gunman,” I see.
Comment by SevenEleventy on 7/28 @ 10:37 am #
Yeah Dan, you forgot anti-complimentary as well!
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 7/28 @ 10:47 am #
It looks like “church” should be the word in quotes for this particular institution. Putting on a play as part of their regular service? Uber mainstream evangelical quasi-church maybe.
Comment by Carin on 7/28 @ 10:51 am #
To make this fit Teh Narrative they need to start downplaying his anti-Christianity, and play-UP everything else.
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 10:52 am #
I wouldn’t call them evangelical.
“Annie,” though. That’s disturbing.
Comment by SarahW on 7/28 @ 10:56 am #
Chris -I take it you aren’t familiar with Unitarian Universalist Church services.
Barrett, how about “starkers”. That works for me.
Comment by Lisa on 7/28 @ 11:19 am #
He was extra extra clingy, it seems.
Comment by Karl on 7/28 @ 11:22 am #
I once accompanied the Rev. Jesse Jackson to such a church, where he openly solicited capaign donations. NTTAWWT.
And I wasn’t progressive then, just part of a friendly local welcoming delegation.
Comment by TheGeezer on 7/28 @ 11:33 am #
The UUC credo: “We beleive in the dignity of all persons.”
God, Jesus, reference to the Bible: all are optional in the UUC pantheon, which is pretty much the only way to describe what UUC members worship.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 11:40 am #
“The real problem is the old man’s organic mental defects,”
Wrong. This is not ‘nature’ but nurture, and for Collins to
swagger with John Wayne into his ‘update’ citing liberal hatred
(instead of Anti-Christian) as the finger on the trigger, makes his post a candidate for ’scrubbing’.
Wish you didn’t need to fill ‘white space’ quite so much?
Comment by Rob Crawford on 7/28 @ 11:42 am #
So, ‘cleo, you neither read nor write English?
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 11:44 am #
Erm . . . huh? I’ll tell you what, though: I’m leaving your post as is, Tonto.
Comment by sashal on 7/28 @ 11:44 am #
well, I am glad we all support profiling for terrorists:
1. white (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, Jim Adkisson)
2. male (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, Jim Adkisson)
3. ultra-right-wing and or “hated the Big Gov’t/liberal agenda” (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, Jim Adkisson)
4. hated homosexals (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, Jim Adkisson)
and remember , they’ll get a fair trial from a secret military tribunal down in Gitmo…when we can get around to it, of course.
LOL
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 11:45 am #
You really should go to one of the “In Celebration and Praise of the Soil god Nitrogrous.” The best part is when “man made erosion” comes running out in a brown suit and pushes her waythrough all of the little ones playing furrows. They cry and cry and cry!
Warms the heart, it does.
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 11:49 am #
OK, sashal, that’s four. Your point, exactly?
McVeigh and Nichols were radical anti-government militia types. Rudolph was a radicalized Christian anti-abortionist. Near as we can tell Adkisson was just plain pissed off at the world, maybe at progressives most of all but apparently had real issues with Christians as well.
What the hell is your point, anyway?
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 11:49 am #
“I’m leaving your post as is, Tonto.”
Yeah, uh huh, you do that, hot shot. Meanwhile, give some thought to aiming before you shoot.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 7/28 @ 11:51 am #
Funny, I thought McVeigh got a needle in his arm while strapped down to a gurney.
You’re right, sashal! Gitmo is FAR worse.
Moron.
Comment by Education Guy on 7/28 @ 11:52 am #
I’m not sure what your expecting leo. Would you like to see something along the lines of how insane it is that a man could come to hate liberals so much that he would want to kill some?
Because it is, and the best thing that could have happened is that he shot himself instead.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 11:56 am #
‘Because it is, and the best thing that could have happened is that he shot himself instead.’
Thank you for sanity.
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 11:58 am #
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter why he did it. Victimizing young people and the rest of the innocents earns him a very special place in hell. In the end, over riding self interest is not a reason to be a mindless butcher.
Comment by The Lost Dog on 7/28 @ 11:58 am #
Yeah, but the U’s here have the coolest church around. It looks like a whale, and is, in fact called “the Whale Church” by the whole county.
Their “sanctuary” is also the coolest place around to rent for a party.
We had our blow-out Halloween parties there for many years. I miss those babies!
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 11:59 am #
EdGuy;
I posted before completing that thought.
I thought it was important that someone besides me said it.
Thanks
Comment by Carin on 7/28 @ 12:02 pm #
You know, as Sashal has pointed out we OBVIOUSLY have a much bigger problem with white, male terrorists than we do other types. Yes … he’s got FOUR men on that list.
Makes you feel silly about all that “All terrorists are muslim” stuff, doesn’t it?
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 12:03 pm #
Cleo, did you read what I actually wrote, you goof? Please demonstrate (preferably using standard English grammar and syntax) how what I wrote could be taken as any kind of attack on liberals.
I don’t think you can.
Comment by Cave Bear on 7/28 @ 12:04 pm #
Goddam, Semanticlit. You are still as brainless as ever. Answer the man’s question; what IS your fucking point here?
Comment by sashal on 7/28 @ 12:13 pm #
Eh, BJ, no point,
just noticing the interesting violent tendency from certain members of the population towards liberal fascists….
Comment by alppuccino on 7/28 @ 12:13 pm #
Seems to me that this guy turned to terrorism in reaction to his new-found poverty. As an Obama surrogate, I suggest we leave him alone, lest we create more psychotic po’ people and get him some money, S.T.A.T.
According to Semanticleo, you give this guy the death penalty, he’ll just split into 5 more hysterical gunmen and meet you over at Holy Redeemer.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 12:13 pm #
Collins;
What was needed was an unequivocal statement (using standard English grammar and syntax). One finally came along. Thanks for what you
DID say, though.
Comment by Rob Crawford on 7/28 @ 12:15 pm #
WTF? Are you channeling semencleo now?
Comment by alppuccino on 7/28 @ 12:17 pm #
just noticing the interesting violent tendency from certain members of the population towards liberal fascists….
Hey sasha,
Go plant a big 5-second frencher on Ahmadinajiad’s lips and see what that gets you from certain members of that population.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 7/28 @ 12:20 pm #
Oh it was a UU organization? Then church doesn’t apply at all, they aren’t Christian in any sense of the word. Still, the loony thought they were, and he clearly was motivated by that for the killing. Which, technically, makes it a hate crime according to the letter of the law. Somehow I doubt that will come up though.
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 12:24 pm #
What ARE you talking about, Cleo? I don’t think YOU know, but if you do, what is needed is its clear and unequivocal enunciation, if your intention is actually to communicate.
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 12:28 pm #
Now, now, Chris. There’s no such things as hate crimes against Christians. Didn’t you get the memo? Black churches don’t count. The jury is still out on synagogues.
sashal: Please, oh please tell me you weren’t trying to make a moral equivalency argument vis a vis your four guys and radical jihadists.
Were you?
Comment by sashal on 7/28 @ 12:31 pm #
never do moral equivalency, BJ, never do.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 12:31 pm #
Collins;
You must be busy. The answer is in the comments. Or are you feigning ignorance? It wouldn’t be the first time.
Comment by TheGeezer on 7/28 @ 12:32 pm #
You know, the United States did so much to earn the retribution of 911, what with our ignorance and universal support for Israel and materialism and insensitivity and hubris and all, it has become obvious to me that hateful reprisal is the fault of the victims, since they did not perceive the injuries inflicted upon the killers that motivated the reprisals. Can we dispassionately analyze what UUC members might have done to so offend a man he would be driven inexorably to slaughter, so that we can avoid the same fate at our places of worship?
Comment by BJTex on 7/28 @ 12:35 pm #
Geezer: Replace “Annie” with “Best Little Whorehouse in Texas?”
Oh, Oh, I know. Streamers!! Nobody can be mad and shoot people when the rainbow colors of streamers fill the room. It’s like … Satin Rain!!
No need to thank me…
Comment by Mikey NTH on 7/28 @ 12:38 pm #
Yeah, we really treated those four terrorists (who are/were citizens) so well, didn’t we?
McVeigh? Dead.
Rudolph? Prison for Life.
Nichols? Prison for Life.
Adkisson? We’ll have to wait to see, but I doubt it will be pleasant.
Cripes, Sashal – pick something sensible to say.
Comment by pan on 7/28 @ 12:59 pm #
I just can’t figure out why these liberals are so angry.
Comment by maggie katzen on 7/28 @ 1:02 pm #
Dan, cleo thinks you condone killing liberals. at least, I think that’s what he’s getting at. You forgot the DENOUNCEMENT! in your post. ;D
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 1:04 pm #
I wrote that before you began yammering something about my blaming it on liberals. What is it that was said that cleared it up for you?
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 1:06 pm #
See, Collins. Even Maggie gets it.
Comment by maggie katzen on 7/28 @ 1:07 pm #
yes, I sometimes can translate idiot. it’s the depression, mostly.
Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 7/28 @ 1:08 pm #
Adkisson? We’ll have to wait to see, but I doubt it will be pleasant.
Tennessee has the death penalty with electrocution and lethal injection as the means (prisoner’s choice).
I wonder what Adkisson would say if given the option between the needle and life in Gitmo? I mean, according to sashal, Gitmo is so much worse, right?
Comment by Dan Collins on 7/28 @ 1:08 pm #
I did? I compared him with The Misfit in “A Good Man Is Hard to Find,” for crying out loud. I’d call that denunciation.
Comment by maggie katzen on 7/28 @ 1:10 pm #
Dan, you have to use small words and declamatory statements. Allusions will not do for the stoopid.
Comment by Cave Bear on 7/28 @ 1:12 pm #
Christopher is right. I’ve known some Unitarians along the way, and I would sooner call it a social club than a church. They don’t have a “faith” as such. But it’s real popular with the proggies, though.
Comment by Semanticleo on 7/28 @ 1:12 pm #
‘I sometimes can translate idiot.’
Maybe Dan can qualify for ADA benefits.
Comment by maggie katzen on 7/28 @ 1:13 pm #
ha ha, no you have that backwards.
Comment by Hadlowe on 7/28 @ 1:14 pm #
I gotta go with the note the guy left in the car as his motivation, since the neighbor’s say-so is hearsay, although it is kinda amusing in a gallows humor way to see identity politics at work here with competing groups jumping over each other to claim the right to be victimized in this case.
Probably wouldn’t want to bring Bill Ayers back up again despite his whiteyness and manniness since he has troublesome political connections. Or Kazinski, cause eco-freak luddites are problematic to your narrative.
Comment by maggie katzen on 7/28 @ 1:14 pm #
oh, my editor says I should have used “exlamatory”
see? idiot.
Comment by Hadlowe on 7/28 @ 1:15 pm #
Bah, fat fingers edited too much, second paragraph is directed at Sashal #28.
Comment by TheGeezer on 7/28 @ 1:44 pm #
Identity politics is all it is today. See? It’s what Obama wants to end, bringing everybody together in a big national group hug, or, as one of the loopier lefties here said, “The us versus them stuff is bullshit!” Obama will cast a magic spell and end all differences.
Damn right we are competing. And I’m sticking to the meme that somehow the liberals killed were to blame. It’s what they always rever to when innocent citizens are killed by any anti-American force. And I think it is a winning meme, too. It embraces the post-modern logic and neoepistomology of contemporary liberalism.
Comment by Liberal Movement and the gays on 7/28 @ 2:04 pm #
We need to understand what we did to make this man hate us so much. And then talks. But not unilateral, cause cowboys are evil.
Trackback by Pirate's Cove on 7/28 @ 2:48 pm #
Cwazy Moonbat Needs Glasses…
Can anyone pony up for an eye exam for the zebras at Firedoglake?
Right Wing Blogosphere Completely Ignores Domestic Terrorism In Knoxville
As Dave notes below, some wingnut crazy shot up a Unitarian church in Tennessee, killing 2 and wounding 7. His h…
Comment by syn on 7/28 @ 2:55 pm #
I am as bored with Gay as I am with The Men’s Room orThe Other Room as I am with Obama.
I’ve movedon.org form the anal retentive narrative.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 7/28 @ 4:42 pm #
Supposedly all the people that knew him said he was a nice enough guy but had a serious problem with Christians. I’m sure that will be ignored from this point on though. Hurts the narrative.
Comment by happyfeet on 7/28 @ 4:48 pm #
Domestic terrorism? Is that for real? There’s no terror inspired by this guy I don’t think. For it to be terrorism the media would have to be able to portray him as being in some way representative of a discernible subpopulation of murderous violent intolerant rightwingers who believe they’re oppressed or something.
oh.
Comment by Sdferr on 7/28 @ 5:05 pm #
The Unitarian Universalist pastor here who co-incidentally grew up in the church where the shooting took place and who’s mother was in attendance for the “Annie” says on the radio we should pray for the badguy just like we do for the victims and their families cause he’s clearly disturbed and needs the prayers.
That’s just her opinion about it.
Comment by B Moe on 7/28 @ 5:06 pm #
ultra-right-wing and or “hated the Big Gov’t/liberal agendaâ€Â
This hasn’t been proven or even indicated, sashal. He apparently hated Christians, which would tend toward a more leftwing bent statistically, but we have no way of knowing what his political beliefs were at the moment.
And you also forgot Bill Ayres and Bernadine Dohrn in your little list.
Comment by Christopher Taylor on 7/28 @ 7:02 pm #
When some leftist whack job shoots up a college it’s just his personal problems, not political. When some right leaning whack job shoots up a church it’s all about how unstable conservatives (or neocons, as the more loopy left have to call him) are and how dangerous the entire ideology is. Funny stuff, that.
Pingback by Dissention in the Bylines [Dan Collins] on 7/28 @ 7:19 pm #
[...] article in Knox News states baldly that there’s no reason to suspect that the church shooter was anti-Christian, per se: “It appears that church had received some publicity regarding its [...]